Tony Parker: Still a Work in Progress [Archive]

Ghost Writer

06-24-2005, 01:06 PM

Not for nothing, Parker's come a long way, but he's still not ripe yet.

The Spurs made big time concessions to cover up for Parker's turnovers and rash shots and even his defense.

Manu and Barry ahd to handle the ball a lot.

Bowen had to take over guarding Billups.

And Parker's backup Udrih is even more green!

Not hating on Parker or Beno, and not posting anything an objetive Spurs fan doesn't already know, but our point guards are not the strength of our team.

They will be, I am sure, with more experience, but right now, they still have a ways to go.

Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

06-24-2005, 01:08 PM

Slo spurs fan

06-24-2005, 01:09 PM

But they still won it all didn't they?
I just can't wait what this team will become in near future! :elephant

timvp

06-24-2005, 01:10 PM

Marcus Bryant

06-24-2005, 01:10 PM

eh? Without Parker's penetration the Spurs don't win Games 1 & 2. Parker was the reason the Spurs were even in Game 3.

You can't hold the Spurs' turnover fest in Games 3 & 4 on Parker. Detroit's D is pretty good and they did a great job at disrupting the motion offense in those games.

Marcus Bryant

06-24-2005, 01:11 PM

Back to Boxscore Basketball™ we go....

ambchang

06-24-2005, 01:13 PM

There sure are quite a few things Parker can work on (namely a more consistent jumpshot), and he tends to be out of control in big games, but his contribution to the 2005 championship is apparent. This Parker is way better than Parker 2003, when Pop was sitting his ass on the bench at the end of games.
Parker played stellar defense throughout the series, and his playmaking is better than perceived (did anybody check his TO vs. Ginobili's? I am sure Many turned the ball over more, but then stats don't tell the whole story, just to point out Parker weren't as bad as people thought he was this series).

Ghost Writer

06-24-2005, 01:24 PM

:lol @ MB.

But seriously, and I am not just talking about Game 7, Parker is not the most stable of PGs.

I'm not sure at his age and with his NBA experience, we should expect him to be.

He had one turnover in Game 7, because he didn't handle the ball as much as a starting PG should after he f'ed up in the 1st quarter.

Yes, Parker is good... his penetration is great when the teardrop is falling and I will even point out that later in the series, he came up with a few big 3s.

His defense on Hamilton was VERY good, but he could not hold Billups' jockstrap.

When I look at these playoffs, the most important Spurs I will remember are Duncan, Ginobili, Horry, Bowen and then probably Parker in that order.

I give Parker his props, but let's not act like he is friggin' bulletproof.

The kid ain't no Ginobili.

WalterBenitez

06-24-2005, 01:29 PM

Give him a break, he's only 23 wait a couple of years at least; besides that ... You know that ... EVA!!!

Ghost Writer

06-24-2005, 01:32 PM

I'm willing to wait and am confident that Aprker will improve. Some people already have ordained him the next Magic Johnson.

Seems more like Kenny Anderson with a hot girlfriend to me.

SWC Bonfire

06-24-2005, 01:32 PM

:rolleyes

caspian

06-24-2005, 01:33 PM

Who is ripe at 23?

He's got plenty of time; he'll be great.

Extra Stout

06-24-2005, 01:47 PM

Tony Parker is still a work in progress. This is true.

He's steadily getting better. In previous years, with his shot not falling, he'd have been useless, and Barry would have had to play 40 minutes.

I think most Spurs fans by now are content with the idea of Parker as a third option, still steadily improving, and gradually taking on a bigger role in the offense behind Duncan and Ginobili as he improves. The exception would be French people in denial who still want him to be the superstar, and insecure Argentine people who want him off the team just in case he busts out all of a sudden.

But neither of those last two groups are truly Spurs fans. So, all in all, things are good.

pjjrfan

06-24-2005, 01:56 PM

Yep, he's only 23 with 4 years exp. and 2 titles under his belt, and he was smart enough to listen to Pop and give the ball to the right people. He did an incredible job on Billups and held his own against Hamilton. He still loses focus on the concept of distributing the ball and getting other guys into their offense at the expense of his own game. As good a penetrator as he is, Tony still gets caught in the paint picking up his dribble, and he needs to improve on his decisions when he does the pick and roll, but like I said he is only 23 and he is IMO tough as nails and is growing right before our eyes.

beirmeistr

06-24-2005, 01:59 PM

I am content with Parker as the third option. I hope he continues to work on his flaws this offseason. And I was impressed with Barry's limited duty as a point guard.

Marcus Bryant

06-24-2005, 02:03 PM

Parker is a vital component. He's taken for granted by too many Spurs fans and what he brings to the team is overlooked by a none too small minority. Without Parker's penetration and speed in the open court the Spurs' offense would stagnate. Sure, Parker didn't have the greatest of series in the Finals, but he wasn't terrible at all, despite what the boxscore jockeys might think. Time and time again playoff opponents find themselves having to adjust their team defense in order to stop his penetration. I saw a crazy stat that had 65% of Tony Parker's shot attempts for the season coming within 5 feet of the basket.

When Steve Nash was 23 he was learning how to take a shit and wipe his ass in the league. Parker was fucking starting at age 19 at the hardest position in the NBA skill-wise and he did that coming from a team called "Paris Basket Racing".

I hate to say it and I'm probably the last person to really care about it but the animosity towards Parker among Spurs fans is due to his French nationality.

FoxMulder

06-24-2005, 02:15 PM

He has been with the Spur 4 years... and he isn´t mature yet?
I´ll be honest. He is more a Shooting Guard than a Point Guard.

The Spurs need a real veteran in the point (even as a backup) to become not only a dynasty but a legend... and not suffer that much.
Now they´ve got Tony Parker. Just a scorer not assist or steals nor rebounds.

I can´t remember last time TP made a Double Double, accept it the kid will never be Nash, Kidd or Billups... you need to born with that vision or talent and he hasn't.

Of course the Spurs win, but they do without the contribution of TParker.
He is still fading away (4 years since he arrived in SA) in clutch situation.
It was just me or I see a 3 point airball and a fool foul against Rip Hamilton in the last seconds?

Ginobili´s contract is a bargain compared with Tony Parker contract.
Maybe they must switch positions. Manu PGuard and TPark SGuard.

Greetings and congratulations Spurs!!!!!

1Parker1

06-24-2005, 02:16 PM

I think many of you are looking at this the wrong way.

How many teams would kill to have a THIRD option as good as Parker?

Also, as great as Nash, Marbury, Kidd may be....how many of them have 2 championships under their belt? Parker has now played against each of them in the playoffs and Finals---and every time HIS team is the one that won. And it isn't like Parker averaged 8 ppg in those series either.

FoxMulder

06-24-2005, 02:17 PM

Tony Parker is in danger to become a new Stephon Marbury....

nkdlunch

06-24-2005, 02:20 PM

Dude, Parker had one turnover. His defense (other than that dumb foul with 10 second remaining) was awesome. He guarded Billups awesome and shut down Rip. As many have said, Bowen wouldn't have been able to guard Billups if Parker couldn't handle Rip. I'd have to look at the tape, but I don't think the Parker was scored on at all until that layup at the end.

Yeah his shot was off but he hit the shot to start the rally from nine back. Other than that, he handled the pressure well and fed Tim and Manu.

Props on a game well played.

I agree with Ghostwritter. Parker was not acting like a staring PG of a NBA Champion Team. He didn't get people involved, and he didn't run the Spurs offense. He dissapointed me and Manu and Tim bailed him out. Or else, I think the Spurs organization would have seriously considered trading him this summer.

nkdlunch

06-24-2005, 02:21 PM

beirmeistr

06-24-2005, 02:25 PM

I have a question for all the hard-core Tony Parker lovers: How many more years do you think it will take before Tony is a complete point guard?

Marcus Bryant

06-24-2005, 02:28 PM

I agree with Ghostwritter. Parker was not acting like a staring PG of a NBA Champion Team. He didn't get people involved, and he didn't run the Spurs offense. He dissapointed me and Manu and Tim bailed him out. Or else, I think the Spurs organization would have seriously considered trading him this summer.

He was playing against the second best defense in the NBA, a defense that dedicated itself to stopping his penetration. Fuck man, at times in the series Tim Duncan didn't look like the go-to man of a NBA championship team due to that defense.

T Park

06-24-2005, 02:28 PM

Dude, Parker had one turnover. His defense (other than that dumb foul with 10 second remaining) was awesome. He guarded Billups awesome and shut down Rip. As many have said, Bowen wouldn't have been able to guard Billups if Parker couldn't handle Rip. I'd have to look at the tape, but I don't think the Parker was scored on at all until that layup at the end.

Thats what I dont get today on the radio, everyone is ripping Parker for having only 8

all they do, is AGAIN look at the boxscore.

Hamilton didnt score on Parker in the 4th quarter with him on other than the stupid foul.

Billups had 13, FIVE MORE THAN PARKER!!!

The great Big Shot Billups witha big 5 more points.

Tony Parker IMO, played a good game, and he did the LITTLE things to get the job done.

Props to "Park"

Marcus Bryant

06-24-2005, 02:29 PM

I have a question for all the hard-core Tony Parker lovers: How many more years do you think it will take before Tony is a complete point guard?

Tony Parker is a complete point guard.

Damn, I hate Spurs fans.

T Park

06-24-2005, 02:29 PM

I have a question for all the hard-core Tony Parker lovers: How many more years do you think it will take before Tony is a complete point guard?

Hes twenty fuckin three.

Holy shit people.....

jcrod

06-24-2005, 02:30 PM

I agree with Ghostwritter. Parker was not acting like a staring PG of a NBA Champion Team. He didn't get people involved, and he didn't run the Spurs offense. He dissapointed me and Manu and Tim bailed him out. Or else, I think the Spurs organization would have seriously considered trading him this summer.

:lol :lol :lol
I don't think so. Name me another PG with his age and ability you would trade him for.

SpizdiStrann

06-24-2005, 02:32 PM

We need a TRUE Point Guard!

you already have him.. beno udrih!! :smokin but we need to wait a year or two for him.. he need to develop his game in all ways, to become a real starting material for spurs.

1Parker1

06-24-2005, 02:36 PM

I have a question for all the hard-core Tony Parker lovers: How many more years do you think it will take before Tony is a complete point guard?

I am not looking and waiting for Parker to be a "complete" PG like Kidd, Nash, etc. That isn't his game and I don't expect that to ever be his game. Each PG has his own way of running the offense within a certain team and each PG does different things that are needed for his team: No one team is the same just like No one PG is the same.

All I am looking for from Parker is better FT shooting, better passes off his penetrations, and a more consistent Jump Shot. His assists are never going to average around 8 or 9--Spurs play a little something called motion offense and like to share the ball.

I agree, Parker does get greedy and stubborn at times, trying to look more to score himself then get a high % shot for his team-mates. But that aspect of his game has improved tremendously since years past and I expect that to continue. I think this is the area that Pop will really have to mentor Tony on in future seasons.

Be happy with what you have, guys. Parker may or may not be a Top 5/10 PG in this league, but he did somehow, crazy as it is to believe, lead the Spurs through 105 games this season and he came out with another ring at age 23. Nash is still looking for his despite being a "complete PG" Kidd is still looking for his despite being a "complete PG."

And for those who argue that you don't want him to be a THIRD option, but rather a PG, you need to broaden your horizons and basketball IQ. Just because he is a PG doesn't mean he can't be a scoring option for the team. Assist average don't tell the whole story on a person's game.

nkdlunch

06-24-2005, 02:36 PM

jcrod

06-24-2005, 02:39 PM

Q. Can you talk about the success your defense had toward the end of the game and the stops you made on Chauncey Billups towards the end?

COACH GREGG POPOVICH: Well, they did a good job, I don't know how else to say it. Tony Parker, Bruce Bowen and Manu on the perimeter, all three of them I thought were very special down the stretch the last five or six minutes in a defensive way. Manu is going to be a do a little bit more for us offensively at this point than Bruce and Tony. But I'll tell you, Tony was real key defensively on the perimeter, and Manu and Bruce followed suit. Bruce is always there doing it, but you add Tony and he does what he did at that point, you know, we were really good on the perimeter on D and I thought that got us stops, got us going back the other way. Fast.
Thank you all, women, ladies, you're all great.

I wish peps would stop hating and listen to Pop and his teammates. They would know more than wannabe internet GM's.

babygonzo

06-24-2005, 02:40 PM

Its not hating on Parker , Ghost Writer is just making a point and his point is right on , Parker was being killed by billups and Pop had to make switch to put Bowen on Billups pop also to the ball out his hand and made Manu and Bowen take the ball up the court and start the offensive not because parker couldnt do it but with manu and barry passing the ball into duncan it gave the spurs a bigger threat from the 3 pt land and the pistons could not sag down and help on defense ..

look at parkers history he really struggles when the opsing team clogs up the lane and thats where most of his game is !

i remember steve kerr having to come in and run point when parker struggling now barry and manu had to help this year .. he has to to come up with a more reliable second move when he cant drive to the basket he needs to have that midrange if not a deadly 3 point shot .

beirmeistr

06-24-2005, 02:41 PM

1Parker1,
Thank you for your honest response.

1Parker1

06-24-2005, 02:43 PM

I'm not buying it. I LOVE parker, beleive me, I love his heart. But at some points Spurs gotta say, he will never develop to being the PG we want him to be. ANd don't mention his age, how long has he been in this league already?

I'm not saying we trade him. I'm just saying Spurs gotta realize, this is what you gonna get from now on. Don't expect anything more.

Well, it's a damn good thing you don't work for the Spurs organization. Many people around this Forum quickly forget that Manu Ginobili was not exactly the most consistent, great offensive player he is now. Last season, his name was mentioned right there with Parker's about inconsistency and TO's.

Now look at how much he has improved his game at the age of 28 (or however old he is). If Manu can take his game to the next level, why can't Tony Parker? Because he doesn't have as much heart? That's debatable--try watching the double OT win against GS this year, try watching that Clippers game earlier in the season when he made the game winning layup with about 4.3 sec on the shot. Or try watching that game against Cleveland where he ran the perfect pick and role that got Duncan open for an easy shot that won us the game.

Parker had a bad game last night, I am not denying that. But to base your opinions on what he did in one game or one series, while negating all his great moments this season is just stupid.

ShoogarBear

06-24-2005, 02:46 PM

I think TP has regressed as a playmaker/passer over the last year, in correlation to his improvement in FG% and getting into the lane. I don't think it's entirely his fault.

There was a ~10-game stretch in December 03 where Tony was a classic fast break-and-disk PG, averaging like 10-12 points and 10 APG.

This year, it seems Pop and the coaches have emphasized him being more aggressive about taking it to the rack and getting his shot off. The problem with this is that he often outruns not only the defense but also his teammates, so if he doesn't have a good look he also doesn't have an outlet and gets trapped on the baseline.

On the Pistons, it seemed every time Billups penetrated, there was a secondary cutter coming down the lane to get a dish from him. On the Spurs with Tony, it seems this doesn't happen nearly enough. I don't know why this is.

We all know his J needs work (oh, okay, it sucks). But it also seems to me that when he takes a jumper off a catch-and-shoot, he's not nearly as bad as when he takes a J off the dribble.

He definitely needs to work on his jumper. If I were him, I'd forget about the 3-pointers this year and just work on a decent 18-footer. But I also think the Spurs need to take better advantage of the chaos he causes when he breaks down the defense on the pentration.

Dartherus

06-24-2005, 02:57 PM

He definitely needs to work on his jumper. If I were him, I'd forget about the 3-pointers this year and just work on a decent 18-footer. But I also think the Spurs need to take better advantage of the chaos he causes when he breaks down the defense on the pentration.
I see a more 'Marbury's mentality' in that kind of 'workout'...working out focusing more in becoming a better scorer instead of focusing in becoming a better passer or improving the court vision ...those are the main shortcomings of Parker as a PG, not scoring skills, don't you think?

Dartherus

06-24-2005, 03:00 PM

Well, it's a damn good thing you don't work for the Spurs organization. Many people around this Forum quickly forget that Manu Ginobili was not exactly the most consistent, great offensive player he is now. Last season, his name was mentioned right there with Parker's about inconsistency and TO's.

Now look at how much he has improved his game at the age of 28 (or however old he is). If Manu can take his game to the next level, why can't Tony Parker? Because he doesn't have as much heart? That's debatable--try watching the double OT win against GS this year, try watching that Clippers game earlier in the season when he made the game winning layup with about 4.3 sec on the shot. Or try watching that game against Cleveland where he ran the perfect pick and role that got Duncan open for an easy shot that won us the game.
There's a difference, Manu was already a great player when he came from Italy, it was more an issue of the role assigned by Pop to him than the lack of skills what made Manu contribute less in the past...the current Manu is more product of more confidence and more responsabilities asigned to him...
If not, think about it, it's logic that in Manu's first year Parker was ahead of him, and in following years,d espite manu beeing older, got more progress than parker?

101A

06-24-2005, 03:01 PM

Parker has the single greatest upside of ANY Spur.

He will START his prime in 5 seasons.

The Spurs played Nash in the playoffs when he was 23; AJ DESTROYED him (and got the better of that version of J. Kidd as well) - Parker would have lit that Avery like a Christmas tree!

If you aren't yet 30; you can't understand (I wouldn't have), but you learn to do ALL kinds of things better from age 20 - 35 - and the physical, muscular peak holds just about through that perid. Just as Manu and Tim begin to slow slightly, believe me, the NBA will FEAR Tony Parker.

"Big Nuts", "Big Nuts"

Ed Helicopter Jones

06-24-2005, 03:11 PM

My only complaint with Tony's game is with his court vision and ability to find the open man. He's not a great finisher at the hoop againt the top defensive teams primarily because the defense knows he can't dish it real well. . .yet.

I do think he can develop that part of his game. There are a lot of guards who seem to develop better and better court vision the longer they're around. Nash and Kidd are two examples. Kidd has always been a great passer, but he's better the older he gets, same for Nash. Parker may not ever be at that level, but he makes up for it with his speed -- he can get to the rim when those guys can't.

He's been the starting point guard on two championship teams so far. . .not bad for a 23 year old.

ShoogarBear

06-24-2005, 03:17 PM

I see a more 'Marbury's mentality' in that kind of 'workout'...working out focusing more in becoming a better scorer instead of focusing in becoming a better passer or improving the court vision ...those are the main shortcomings of Parker as a PG, not scoring skills, don't you think?Tony is doing what the coaches are telling him to do. It's pretty clear that they don't want him/expect him to be a pass-first PG in this system. If opponents have to respect his jumper, it will open up every thing else, including his playmaking.

He can work on the fundamentals, but great court vision is something people either do or don't have. I disagree that Kidd and Nash "developed" their court vision. Kidd had that court vision when I saw him play for Cal.

IceColdBrewski

06-24-2005, 03:31 PM

...at some points Spurs gotta say, he will never develop to being the PG we want him to be. ANd don't mention his age, how long has he been in this league already?

Don't expect anything more.

What he said.

Spurminator

06-24-2005, 03:33 PM

If you don't expect more, then don't complain when you don't GET more.

That settles that.

I don't see Tony's court "vision" improving a lot, but as he plays with the same players for years and years, he should begin to develop an instinct about where they are on the floor without having to see them. A lot of times, it's more about awareness than vision.

Areas where I think we can hope for improvement are his jump shooting, his strength and his focus.

IceColdBrewski

06-24-2005, 03:37 PM

If you don't expect more, then don't complain when you don't GET more.

That settles that.

Sorry. But anyone calling himself the "Spurminator" is not to be taken seriously.

Spurminator

06-24-2005, 03:37 PM

Well put.

Dartherus

06-24-2005, 03:39 PM

Tony is doing what the coaches are telling him to do. It's pretty clear that they don't want him/expect him to be a pass-first PG in this system. If opponents have to respect his jumper, it will open up every thing else, including his playmaking.

He can work on the fundamentals, but great court vision is something people either do or don't have. I disagree that Kidd and Nash "developed" their court vision. Kidd had that court vision when I saw him play for Cal.
I have to agree with Shoog here, Court vision is something you're born with, just like natural intelligence is, training can improve other things, but not natural court vision, I also have seen Manu's games in his youth, and he always had a great court vision, court vision can be improved only in limited level, it seems...
However, despite the difficult to improve court vision, I guess one can improve attitude, trying to be more aware of open (not asking to make no-look passes, just pass the ball to the blatanlty open one) teammates (something still lacking in Tony, when he goes on sutbborn mode trying to score)...