So much for the, "There's no...

[Yonivore]

...evidence of voter fraud ever occurring," meme.

Louisa felon illegally registered after receiving form from Voter Participation Center (http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2012/jul/26/tdmain01-louisa-felon-illegally-registered-after-r-ar-2084757/)


LOUISA, Va. -- A felon living in Louisa County registered to vote illegally and then cast a ballot in the 2008 presidential election after filling out and submitting a voter-registration form she received by mail from the Voter Participation Center, a state senator who prosecuted the case confirmed Wednesday.

The case is the first known instance of voter fraud that resulted from voter registration mailings by the Voter Participation Center, a nonprofit that has distributed 5 million third-party registration forms across the country and nearly 200,000 in Virginia this year targeting Democrat-leaning voting blocs, such as unmarried women, young people and minorities.

State election officials and local registrars say hundreds, if not thousands, of the forms have been sent to ineligible voters, including dead relatives, children, non-U.S. citizens, already registered voters, and pets. The voting group, which has ties to progressive organizations, fills in the documents with the names and addresses of the people they are trying to reach.
Only one reached an ineligible voter who then cast a ballot?

[Drachen]

Show me one poster who ever claimed that "there is no evidence of voter fraud ever occuring" or shut this thread down.

[DMX7]

1? :lmao

[jack sommerset]

It's been said so much I wouldnt waste a moment looking for one post. God bless

[baseline bum]

How many fucking threads are you going to create today? You're the Koolaid of the political forum.

[ChumpDumper]

1 out of 5 million?

That's an amazing percentage tbh.

And no, no one ever said "There's no evidence of voter fraud ever occurring."

lol meme

[Yonivore]

It's been said so much I wouldnt waste a moment looking for one post. God bless
Actually, I searched and ChumpDumper was the only one I found that said it...even then, it wasn't explicit. I stand corrected.

Much of the rest of the commentary, of which I've been critical, was how it wasn't widespread and that there was no danger of it being significant enough to affect an election.

Of course, it would have only taken 157 fraudulent votes for Al Gore in 2000 to make that a whole new ball game, eh?

But, jack, if you want to scour the forum for examples, it wouldn't bother me.

[Yonivore]

How many fucking threads are you going to create today? You're the Koolaid of the political forum.
Said Mr. 32,000 posts.

[Yonivore]

1? :lmao
How many fraudulent votes are you willing to accept?

[scott]

How many fraudulent votes are you willing to accept?

How many valid votes are you willing to disqualify per fraudulent vote prevented?

[Yonivore]

How many valid votes are you willing to disqualify per fraudulent vote prevented?
Why would you think valid votes would be disqualified?

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, I searched and ChumpDumper was the only one I found that said it...even then, it wasn't explicit. I stand corrected.You lying piece of shit.

[scott]

Why would you think valid votes would be disqualified?

I asked first

[Yonivore]

I asked first
I'm sorry, I thought it was implied in my question; 0. Your turn.

[scott]

If then you are willing to accept zero collateral damage in votes cast, how many voters are you willing to disqualify in order to prevent 1 illegal voter from casting a ballot?

[Yonivore]

If then you are willing to accept zero collateral damage in votes cast, how many voters are you willing to disqualify in order to prevent 1 illegal voter from casting a ballot?
I asked second and, I don't see your answer -- implied or otherwise -- in the above question.

[ElNono]

So the felon got caught.... the system works!

[scott]

I asked second and, I don't see your answer -- implied or otherwise -- in the above question.

Because a disqualified valid voter is a de facto disqualified valid vote.

Did you fail to realize that? You might be stupider than I gave you credit for.

[Yonivore]

Because a disqualified valid voter is a de facto disqualified valid vote.

Did you fail to realize that? You might be stupider than I gave you credit for.
Why would think measures designed to detect and stop voter fraud would result in disqualified valid votes?

[George Gervin's Afro]

so.... this person had a valid id when she cast her ballot..... i'm glad the voter id law is in place now..lol

[Yonivore]

so.... this person had a valid id when she cast her ballot..... i'm glad the voter id law is in place now..lol
Not the only measure being fought by liberals.

I wonder if Virginia, like Florida, had a effort to remove felons from the voter rolls that was fought by Democrats.

[scott]

Why would think measures designed to detect and stop voter fraud would result in disqualified valid votes?

I asked third.

[Yonivore]

I asked third.
You never answered second...you simply re-asked the first.

[Spurminator]

1? :lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

Not the only measure being fought by liberals.

I wonder if Virginia, like Florida, had a effort to remove felons from the voter rolls that was fought by Democrats.

well i am assuming that most felons are accepting their responsibility as american citizens to cast votes.... they just did 20 but they are going to vote for obama and democrats..lol

[Spurminator]

How many fraudulent votes are you willing to accept?

I, for one, am willing to accept one fraudulent vote... or at least not get all hissy-fitty about it.

[ChumpDumper]

Garrett said that, had both felons petitioned the governor to have their voting rights restored, "they likely would have gotten it.":lol

[scott]

You never answered second...you simply re-asked the first.

So you are that stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

I, for one, am willing to accept one fraudulent vote... or at least not get all hissy-fitty about it.I will especially accept fraudulent votes that are detected and thrown out using regular current procedures.

[George Gervin's Afro]

so following yoni's logi..he would be ok with innocent people going to prison as long as we get most of the bad guys..

[Yonivore]

So you are that stupid.
How is stating the obvious, that a disqualified valid voter is a de facto disqualified valid vote, any answer to the question of why you think voter fraud measures would result in disqualifying valid voters, and their votes, at all?

[Spurminator]

So now the big talking point being peddled by useful idiots like Yonivore is that Voter Fraud is a widespread epidemic as evidenced by one felon casting a vote on the technicality that she had not had her voting rights officially restored, and getting caught.

Sounds just like the apocalyptic nightmares from the Right about Mexican immigrants and closet Communists voting with the names of dead people. You guys were right all along!

[George Gervin's Afro]

i see dead voters..lol

[Yonivore]

so following yoni's logi..he would be ok with innocent people going to prison as long as we get most of the bad guys..
No, I reject the premise -- article of faith, on the left -- that voter fraud prevention measures would result in disqualifying valid voters.

[Yonivore]

So now the big talking point being peddled by useful idiots like Yonivore is that Voter Fraud is a widespread epidemic as evidenced by one felon casting a vote on the technicality that she had not had her voting rights officially restored, and getting caught.

Sounds just like the apocalyptic nightmares from the Right about Mexican immigrants and closet Communists voting with the names of dead people. You guys were right all along!
There's that word, "widespread," again.

Voter fraud does not have to be either widespread or pervasive to taint an election.

LBJ did it with just two counties in 1960. Florida, in 2000, would have been flipped with under 200 votes.

[Yonivore]

i see dead voters..lol
That same group was mailing registration forms to dead people and animals, as well.

[ChumpDumper]

So what yoni really wants is a voter reinstatement education campaign for convicted felons.

That would have eliminated all the massive vote fraud he has cataloged here.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No, I reject the premise -- article of faith, on the left -- that voter fraud prevention measures would result in disqualifying valid voters.

let's say you share the same name as felon... florida removes you and you can't vote... is that ok?

[ChumpDumper]

He said taint.

[Yonivore]

let's say you share the same name as felon... florida removes you and you can't vote... is that ok?
Did that happen?

[Spurminator]

That same group was mailing registration forms to dead people and animals, as well.

Well shit, that would suck if those dead people and animals ever figured out how to fill out the forms...

[Spurminator]

There's that word, "widespread," again.

Voter fraud does not have to be either widespread or pervasive to taint an election.

LBJ did it with just two counties in 1960. Florida, in 2000, would have been flipped with under 200 votes.

That's 200 times the evidence you have found so far.

[Yonivore]

Well shit, that would suck if those dead people and animals ever figured out how to fill out the forms...
Because no one, like a felon, would fill out the form and pretend to be the dead person -- in order to vote fraudulently.

[Yonivore]

That's 200 times the evidence you have found so far.
How many votes were cast in the 2008 Presidential election?

[ElNono]

And get caught, get his vote disqualified and get prosecuted for voter fraud... not hard at all, apparently.

[ChumpDumper]

Because no one, like a felon, would fill out the form and pretend to be the dead person -- in order to vote fraudulently.What would be that felon's motivation? In this case, all the felon wanted to do was, you know, vote as her non-dead self. And all she had to do was ask the governor pretty please.

[Spurminator]

Because no one, like a felon, would fill out the form and pretend to be the dead person -- in order to vote fraudulently.

How many times has this happened?

Just how irresistible do you think the urge to vote is among convicted felons anyway? Do you think they all sit around burdening themselves with the regret that they can never go stand in line to vote like 2% of everyone else? Do you think that desire is so strong that they're constantly looking for some kind of loophole that will allow them to taste the sweet sweet nectar of the Right to Vote again?

[Yonivore]

How many times has this happened?

Just how irresistible do you think the urge to vote is among convicted felons anyway? Do you think they all sit around burdening themselves with the regret that they can never go stand in line to vote like 2% of everyone else? Do you think that desire is so strong that they're constantly looking for some kind of loophole that will allow them to taste the sweet sweet nectar of the Right to Vote again?
Who knows of what felons dream?

But, fighting efforts to remove them from the voter rolls seems to suggest those doing the fighting believe enough of them will vote illegally to make a difference.

[Spurminator]

The idea that there are scores of felons trying to get around voting laws to cast ballots could only seem feasible to someone who is completely obsessed with partisan gamesmanship. Just because voting every couple of years and keeping score is the only thing that gets you out of bed in the morning doesn't mean everyone else in the world, including felons, gives that much of a shit.

[Yonivore]

The idea that there are scores of felons trying to get around voting laws to cast ballots could only seem feasible to someone who is completely obsessed with partisan gamesmanship. Just because voting every couple of years and keeping score is the only thing that gets you out of bed in the morning doesn't mean everyone else in the world, including felons, gives that much of a shit.
Then why are Democrats so obsessed with stopping measures designed to ensure felons and other unqualified persons don't vote?

[Spurminator]

Who knows of what felons dream?

But, fighting efforts to remove them from the voter rolls seems to suggest those doing the fighting believe enough of them will vote illegally to make a difference.

You're asking for more solutions to a problem that doesn't exist, and your solutions will make it more difficult for qualified voters to cast a ballot. If the tradeoff for keeping barriers to legal voting at a minimum is that one person in Virginia will register to vote without going through the proper channels to have her voting right reinstated, and then get caught, then that's a trade most reasonable people would be willing to make.

But let's stop pretending you actually give a shit.

[ChumpDumper]

Who knows of what felons dream?

But, fighting efforts to remove them from the voter rolls seems to suggest those doing the fighting believe enough of them will vote illegally to make a difference.She was removed from the voter rolls. If VA had their shit together, she would have been removed earlier.

You know, this all would have been avoided if the damn form said "If you've ever been convicted of a felony, call the election board."

I'm all for that anti-fraud reform.

[ChumpDumper]

Then why are Democrats so obsessed with stopping measures designed to ensure felons and other unqualified persons don't vote?Voter ID laws would not have prevented this case.

The measures designed to ensure this person doesn't vote already exist.

[Spurminator]

One man kills 14 people in a movie theater... "Let's not rush to judgment about weapons laws over a single isolated incident."

One woman casts an illegal vote in 2008 and gets caught... "MANDATORY ID CARDS FOR EVERYONE!!"

[ElNono]

http://www.salon.com/topic/voter_fraud/

Many have criticized the need for such a bill. After all, there were 11 total instances of voter fraud in Pennsylvania between 2000 and 2008, eight of which were attempted by the same person. But whatever.

...

What might be worse is the Corbett administration’s complete lack of background info on how many people this issue would affect. Around the time the bill was signed, the administration estimated about 1 percent of Pennsylvania residents lacked proper ID to vote.

But last week state officials released the real number: 9.2 percent, or 758,000 registered voters, actually lack proper identification. And in Philadelphia — a Democratic haven, which, along with Pittsburgh, often tips presidential elections — the number lacking proper ID is up around 18 percent, or 186,830 voters.

To put all that in perspective, President Obama won the 2008 election by 620,478 votes, which is less than the number of statewide voters lacking proper ID. Philadelphia alone represented more than 400,000 of that margin. Which has led many locals in the City of Brotherly Love to question the GOP’s motives.

[Yonivore]

You're asking for more solutions to a problem that doesn't exist,
But, it does exist.


and your solutions will make it more difficult for qualified voters to cast a ballot.
I've repeatedly asked how and have yet to get an answer.


If the tradeoff for keeping barriers to legal voting at a minimum is that one person in Virginia will register to vote without going through the proper channels to have her voting right reinstated, and then get caught, then that's a trade most reasonable people would be willing to make.

But let's stop pretending you actually give a shit.
How are any of the measures barriers to legal voting?

[ElNono]

That is, until late last month when Pennsylvania’s House Majority Leader Mike Turzai let the cat out of the bag: “Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” he said at a recent Republican rally to a cheering crowd.

[ChumpDumper]

But, it does exist.And is dealt with using existing measures, as you so effectively proved.

[Yonivore]

One man kills 14 people in a movie theater... "Let's not rush to judgment about weapons laws over a single isolated incident."

One woman casts an illegal vote in 2008 and gets caught... "MANDATORY ID CARDS FOR EVERYONE!!"
Thanks for the non sequitur...

Did Felons Put Al Franken in the Senate? (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-felons-put-al-franken-in-the-senate/)


The six-month election recount that turned former “Saturday Night Live” comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota’s Twin Cities.

That’s the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes — fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority’s newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

[...]

A spokesman for both county attorneys’ offices belittled the information, saying it was “just plain wrong” and full of errors, which prompted the group to go back and start an in-depth look at the records.

“What we did this time is irrefutable,” McGrath said. “We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

“The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn’t very likely.”
Fraud matters.

[ChumpDumper]

lol conservative dog group

[ElNono]

Why isn't the "conservative watchdog group" suing? That's un-american...

[ElNono]

Fraud matters.

Disenfranchising 9%+ of perfectly legal voters in a state matters more.

[Yonivore]

If you want to talk about real, as opposed to theorized, voter disenfranchisement -- look no further than the Democrats:

The Case Against the New Black Panthers (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243504/case-against-new-black-panthers-andrew-c-mccarthy)


It was just a year ago, before we knew some truly outrageous details that have since come to light, that Thernstrom was sounding plenty heated herself. In a letter dated June 22, 2009, she scolded Loretta King, the Obama Justice Department’s top civil-rights enforcer, writing that she and other members of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights were


gravely concerned about the Civil Rights Division’s actions in this case and feel strongly that the dismissal of this case weakens the agency’s moral obligation to prevent voting rights violations, including acts of voter intimidation or vote suppression. We cannot understand the rationale for this case’s dismissal and fear that it will confuse the public on how the Department of Justice will respond to claims of voter intimidation.
No conservative dissent there. Thernstrom, the Commission’s vice-chair, pronounced that the Panthers “were caught on video engaging in voter suppression.” She demanded that this top Justice Department official explain the evidentiary and legal rationale for dismissing such a case.

The Political Cost of Selective Recounts (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_21_05_MB.html)


Sometimes a decision made in the heat of partisan battle has
reverberations for years to come.

One such decision was the one of Al Gore's campaign to selectively challenge the results of the 2000 election in Florida by demanding hand counts of votes cast in three counties -- Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach. The latter two produce huge majorities for Democratic candidates, and the election officials in charge of the hand counts were Democrats. In other words, Gore sought new counts only in areas where he was likely to gain votes and would not take the risk of a statewide hand count, where those gains might be offset by others for George W. Bush.

We know now that, thanks to the news media consortium that recounted ballots in every Florida county, recounting under any method and any criterion they tested would not have overturned Bush's exceedingly thin plurality.
An attempt to disenfranchise voters in 64 of Florida's 67 counties.

GOP prods Justice on military vote (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43459.html)


A group of Republican lawyers and law students called Tuesday for the Obama administration to do more to ensure that members of the military are able to cast ballots in the Nov. 2 elections.

David Norcross, chairman of the Republican National Lawyers Association, said in a statement: “The MOVE Act was passed last year to ensure that these brave men and women would have a voice in this fall’s elections. It’s unacceptable that any state would fail to meet that obligation. The Obama administration must act swiftly to guarantee that every service member receives his or her ballot in time to vote.”
Democrat concern for disenfranchisement seems to be restricted only to those they theorize will be disqualified in efforts to keep the truly unqualified from voting.

[ChumpDumper]

lol New Black Panther Party

You've given that dude more exposure than he ever dreamed of.

[ElNono]

*ANY* disenfranchising of legal voters *SHOULD* be more important than a handful of alleged fraudulent votes, no matter who does it. Especially, since the system to detect fraudulent voters seems to be working properly (ie: your OP)

But in any case, in none of those examples you provided, people were actually legally denied their right to vote. If anything, you're "hinting" (wink wink) at alleged criminal activity.

Furthermore, there's nothing "theorized" about Pennsylvania's Voter ID law... it's the current law and it's effectively disenfranchising 9% of legal voters on a swing state, no less.

[Winehole23]

When Pennsylvania officials begin their defense of the state's new voter identification law in court Wednesday, they will do so after agreeing to abandon a central argument for why such laws are needed.


In a Pennsylvania court filing (http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf), the state says it has never investigated claims of in-person voter fraud and so won't argue that such fraud has occurred in the past. As a result, the state says, it has no evidence that the crime has ever been committed.


The state also says it won't present "any evidence or argument" that in-person voter fraud is likely to occur on Election Day if the voter ID law isn't enacted.


More from the filing, which also was signed by the attorney for the plaintiffs, who are Pennsylvania residents suing (http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/PetitionApplewhite.pdf) to overturn the law:

"There have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states...Respondents will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania or elsewhere."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law

[Winehole23]

Much like Pennsylvania, Yoni has -- how shall we say? -- an empirically not too well founded fear of voter fraud.

Unlike Yoni, PA does not claim there is any rational basis for that fear, and in the strict political sense it is entirely correct to offer no justification whatsoever. Pandering and hypercriminalization are real.

[Wild Cobra]

They still don't get it.

When there is no checks to see if the voters are legal, there is no way to find the illegal ones, except by chance.

[ElNono]

They still don't get it.

When there is no checks to see if the voters are legal, there is no way to find the illegal ones, except by chance.

But there are checks. Apparently, as seen in the OP, they're working just fine.

lol not getting it.

[ChumpDumper]

They still don't get it.

When there is no checks to see if the voters are legal, there is no way to find the illegal ones, except by chance.They found this one with the checks they already have.

It wasn't chance, it was just slow.

[Drachen]

They found this one with the checks they already have.

It wasn't chance, it was just slow.

CD lobbing balls here, I think I will let someone else take a crack at it.

[Winehole23]

They still don't get it.

When there is no checks to see if the voters are legal, there is no way to find the illegal ones, except by chance.a mountain, straining at a gnat.



(the gnat is voter impersonation, elections are the mountain)

[Bill_Brasky]

Lol, if voter ID was supported by the left I'm sure yonivore would suddenly be against it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Voter ID laws would not have prevented this case.

The measures designed to ensure this person doesn't vote already exist.

I tried to get yoni to inderstand that .. he ain't so bright

[George Gervin's Afro]

Lol, if voter ID was supported by the left I'm sure yonivore would suddenly be against it.

They would be un-american!

[Wild Cobra]

Lol, if voter ID was supported by the left I'm sure yonivore would suddenly be against it.
Start supporting it and see if that's true then.

[Yonivore]

I tried to get yoni to inderstand that .. he ain't so bright
Felons voting isn't the only way voter fraud occurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Felons voting isn't the only way voter fraud occurs.List all the other examples.

Hell, list all the convictions for vote fraud in the past decade. Really define the threat objectively.

[George Gervin's Afro]

One man kills 14 people in a movie theater... "Let's not rush to judgment about weapons laws over a single isolated incident."

One woman casts an illegal vote in 2008 and gets caught... "MANDATORY ID CARDS FOR EVERYONE!!"

he fails logic pretty consistently

[George Gervin's Afro]

List all the other examples.

Hell, list all the convictions for vote fraud in the past decade. Really define the threat objectively.

I would have more respect for yoni and his ilk just admitted that these laws are going to hurt the democrats... no one wants voter fraud but it rarely happens and his side won't aknowledge that.. that is why i have grown to hate their point of view.


of course anyone can use a gun license to vote.. i wonder which side that helps..can anyone help me with that

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Why would think measures designed to detect and stop voter fraud would result in disqualified valid votes?

Because the measures are draconian and will eventually cause said event. A man on the East side of San Antonio was de-registered because a man of the same name died in Colorado. That seems a bit extreme to me. Black people also frequently have slave names that are common like Jefferson, Washington, etc. If your first name is common, you're going to be spending all your time in voter registration offices trying to re-register each and every election as your name is scrubbed for every Joe Washington that dies in another state.

[Wild Cobra]

Because the measures are draconian and will eventually cause said event. A man on the East side of San Antonio was de-registered because a man of the same name died in Colorado. That seems a bit extreme to me. Black people also frequently have slave names that are common like Jefferson, Washington, etc. If your first name is common, you're going to be spending all your time in voter registration offices trying to re-register each and every election as your name is scrubbed for every Joe Washington that dies in another state.
That shouldn't have happened. Are you sure? There are registration numbers assigned. For this to have happened, someone had to assume this man was illegally registered in two states to start with.