Was anyone else struck...

[Yonivore]

...by the irony of the Olympics Opening Ceremony's tribute to Britain's National Health System ending with the PRIVATE Nanny, Mary Poppins, swooping in with her umbrella to save the day?

Americans baffled by 'left-wing tribute' to free healthcare during Opening Ceremonies (and what was with those flying Mary Poppinses defeating Lord Voldemort?) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180227/London-2012-Olympics-Some-Americans-left-baffled-tribute-NHS-Mary-Poppins-Opening-Ceremony.html)


Last night's spectacular $42million, the brainchild of Oscar-winning British director Danny Boyle, included a segment where dozens of skipping nurses and children in pajamas leaping acrobatically on massive hospital beds, with a large 'NHS' displayed.

It was a celebration of Britain's national health service, which has provided free taxpayer-funded health care to everyone in the country since its foundation after the Second World War.

. . .

Before the ceremony, the Slumdog Millionaire director defended his decision to feature the NHS prominently in the show. He told reporters that he chose to feature it because ‘everyone is aware of how important the NHS is to everybody in this country.’

He continued: ‘One of the core values of our society is that it doesn’t matter who you are, you will get treated the same in terms of health care.’

The Commentator executive editor Raheem Kassam was one of many who took to social media to voice their opinions, and tweeted: 'Anyone else realise it wasn't the NHS who tended well to the kids in the Opening Ceremony, it was private nanny, Mary Poppins!'

. . .

Others simply thought the idea of children, nurses, and nannies in an elaborate choreographed dance was simply bizarre.
I see.


‘One of the core values of our society is that it doesn’t matter who you are, you will get treated the same in terms of health care.’
That doesn't bode well for Her Majesty the Queen or Boyles...

Top doctor's chilling claim: The NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients every year (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html)


NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday.
Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial ‘death pathway’ into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly.

He claimed there was often a lack of clear evidence for initiating the Liverpool Care Pathway, a method of looking after terminally ill patients that is used in hospitals across the country.

It is designed to come into force when doctors believe it is impossible for a patient to recover and death is imminent.

It can include withdrawal of treatment – including the provision of water and nourishment by tube – and on average brings a patient to death in 33 hours.
Where does Daniel Boyle receive his health care?

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you hate our ally Great Britain?

[boutons_deux]

Private, for profit, free marekt US doctors, and medical errors, kill 100K+ in USA every year.

Any complaints from Yoni?

Fuck no, USA is his USA, right or wrong (it ain't never wrong except when Dems do it, then it ain't his USA but unAmerican Dems fucking up)

[Oh, Gee!!]

If we connect the dots, it all goes back to Chik-fil-a

[ElNono]

Not to mention they spend less per capita on healthcare than the private system we have here, while providing access to care to every citizen...

[ChumpDumper]

So yoni believes that huge puppets based on fictional British children's book villains are the biggest health threat today.

[clambake]

whats your position on chitty chitty bang bang?

[Yonivore]

Not to mention they spend less per capita on healthcare than the private system we have here, while providing access to care to every citizen...
That's easy to do when you're just letting them die, on purpose.

[ChumpDumper]

That's easy to do when you're just letting them die, on purpose.lol death panels

[Yonivore]

lol death panels
Actually, the UK doctor's describe euthanasia.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, the UK doctor's describe euthanasia.US doctors do that all the time whether they call it that or not.

[Yonivore]

US doctors do that all the time whether they call it that or not.
Really? There's a policy of euthanasia? Where?

[ChumpDumper]

Really? There's a policy of euthanasia? Where?Did I say there was a policy?

Well, come to think of it now, there is -- largely unspoken and variable because Americans are to weak to actually consider these things out in the open.

[ElNono]

That's easy to do when you're just letting them die, on purpose.

As opposed to letting them die because they can't afford it? Some compromise...

Death panels!

[ploto]

Do you really not understand that the Mary Poppins were part of the tribute to British children's literature that played out in the dreams of the children and had nothing to do with illness.

I am sure if British doctors have to face a 100-foot Voldemort they will give Julie Andrews a call.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really? There's a policy of euthanasia? Where?

They are called insurance underwriting standards and risk assessment.

[Spurminator]

I'm always struck that the people of developed nations with public health care seem more often than not to be really proud of it, as though they're completely oblivious to what an awful and damn near cataclysmic system it is. It's a good thing Americans know better.

[boutons_deux]

I'm always struck that the people of developed nations with public health care seem more often than not to be really proud of it, as though they're completely oblivious to what an awful and damn near cataclysmic system it is. It's a good thing Americans know better.

What jingoistic bullshit.

Ask those foreigners if they'd like to swap their national health care system for America's for-profit system. And ask them if they'd like to pay for all those profits.

[Spurminator]

What jingoistic bullshit.

Ask those foreigners if they'd like to swap their national health care system for America's for-profit system. And ask them if they'd like to pay for all those profits.



Le sigh...

[ElNono]

Le sigh...

:lol

[AussieFanKurt]

Other than guns and god, is there anything you don't criticize yoni?

[Yonivore]

Other than guns and god, is there anything you don't criticize yoni?
Oh, I criticize those plenty -- well, not God but, religion and, not guns but, poor craftsmanship and idiot CHL carriers.

Why?

[AussieFanKurt]

For someone who loves using facts and logic I love how you blindly just believe in God without any support or logic to back it up. Because there is none.

[Yonivore]

For someone who loves using facts and logic I love how you blindly just believe in God without any support or logic to back it up. Because there is none.
Thanks for the compliment. And, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. ;o)

Atheism is another thread, by the way.

[EVAY]

Oh for heaven's sake, Yoni!

The opening ceremony celebrated things England was/is proud of,including their agrarian heritage, the industrial revolution, pop music,great literature, movie shows, national health care, and Children's fairy tales.

You (and some other political jerk) decide that the only thing worth noting is a celebration of their national health service as though it was a political statement directed at us.

What narcissism!

[EVAY]

Personally, I think we do a stinking job in this country of prolonging death rather than prolonging life. We keep people breathing on machines rather than letting nature take its course. The result is huge costs and loss of dignity for many dying people who cannot speak for themselves and whose families are afraid to say that it is okay to let them go.

And the doctors keep them on machines because they are afraid of being sued.

I don't consider that particularly superior to what GB has.

[DMX7]

US doctors do that all the time whether they call it that or not.

Families often decide on their own that keeping alive terminally ill family members just so they can suffer a little longer isn't noble, ethical or selfless.

[Yonivore]

Meanwhile, back in England...

Man who died of dehydration in hospital was so desperate for water he called police, inquest hears (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/man-who-died-of-dehydration-in-hospital-was-so-desperate-for-water-he-called-police-inquest-hears-7904061.html)

Choosing to forego treatment voluntarily or even having a family member do it as an extension of an advanced directive is one thing. Having your government decide you deserve to die is quite another.

[ElNono]

At least he didn't get his credit card stolen after he died (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-hospital-worker-stole-dead-patient-credit-card-info-hours-dies-police-article-1.1123008)... oh wait, that was in the US.

[AussieFanKurt]

Love the selective reading from Yoni

[Yonivore]

At least he didn't get his credit card stolen after he died (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-hospital-worker-stole-dead-patient-credit-card-info-hours-dies-police-article-1.1123008)... oh wait, that was in the US.
I'll let you know when the British health care workers involved are arrested...oh, wait! It's a matter of policy.

[ElNono]

Love the selective reading from Yoni

Yeah, apparently malpractice is a phenomenon reserved to the UK... this is good news for American Hospitals too, now they can forego of that expensive malpractice insurance...

[ElNono]

I'll let you know when the British health care workers involved are arrested...oh, wait! It's a matter of policy.

Well, apparently there's an ongoing investigation...

A coroner had such grave concerns about the case she referred it to the police and there was a “serious untoward incident” investigation at the hospital. The hearing continues.

But you'll have to excuse me if I'm skeptical of your claim of following up on this...

[ElNono]

BTW, doctors involved in a malpractice lawsuits rarely if ever are charged criminally (and go to jail) in the US... and as far as the civil payout, that's exactly what malpractice insurance is for...

But thanks for letting us know you expect the UK to have standards the US doesn't have...

[AussieFanKurt]

Hadn't you heard? The USA is the perfect country while everywhere else is just plain shit

[Yonivore]

Hadn't you heard? The USA is the perfect country while everywhere else is just plain shit
Well, it's not quite that stark. You guys are probably a distant 2nd or 3rd.

[ElNono]

Oh and BTW, that case went to court and it was ruled as neglect. The judge ruled that the hospital was liable under civil law (just like in America, surprise!). To boot, the staff in charge was plastered in the newspapers, and it forced changes at the hospital, instead of just a payout behind closed doors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18814487

There's a system we can learn a thing or two from.

[Yonivore]

There's a system we can learn a thing or two from.
:lmao

[AussieFanKurt]

:lmao

fuck you're biased

[Yonivore]

fuck you're biased
Let me know when the world starts flocking to the fucking NHS when they fall ill of just about every disease on which the American Health Care System has proven over and over again to be the leader in treating.

Yes, I'm biased. The American Health Care System is the best in the world.

[AussieFanKurt]

Yes, I'm biased. The American Health Care System is the best in the world.

:lmao :lmao :lmao starting to think you're a troll. This is hilarious.

Heard of Scandinavian health care, son?

[ElNono]

Well, millionaires like Kobe headed to Germany to have a treatment done on his knee that it's not available in the US yet... Steve Jobs himself headed to Switzerland (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/18/steve-jobs-went-to-switzerland-in-search-of-cancer-treatment/) looking for an innovative cancer treatment...

There are cases out there if you look for them...

[Yonivore]

:lmao :lmao :lmao starting to think you're a troll. This is hilarious.

Heard of Scandinavian health care, son?
Do the sick of the world risk make their way there for treatment?

[Yonivore]

Well, millionaires like Kobe headed to Germany to have a treatment done on his knee that it's not available in the US yet... Steve Jobs himself headed to Switzerland (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/18/steve-jobs-went-to-switzerland-in-search-of-cancer-treatment/) looking for an innovative cancer treatment...

There are cases out there if you look for them...
If you really look. And, why is Kobe's treatment not available here? Probably government interference. Probably Job's as well.

[ElNono]

Now, I do still think the US has the best, quality-wise, care in the world overall... but the cost is nearly half of Americans not being able to afford it.

[Yonivore]

Now, I do still think the US has the best, quality-wise, care in the world overall... but the cost is nearly half of Americans not being able to afford it.
I blame government. A good deal of the cost of medical care is found in regulatory compliance and malpractice insurance.

[ElNono]

If you really look. And, why is Kobe's treatment not available here? Probably government interference. Probably Job's as well.

In Kobe's case, more stringent testing by the FDA. In Jobs case, the University of Basel is just renowned for research on that field.

Germany is also at the forefront of stem cell research. That's another area that was heavily politicized here in the US, and that's what happens when you slip.

[ElNono]

I blame government. A good deal of the cost of medical care is found in regulatory compliance and malpractice insurance.

Can you back up the "regulatory compliance" part?

The malpractice insurance part isn't government mandated AFAIK, so I don't know what exactly government has to do with it.

[Yonivore]

Can you back up the "regulatory compliance" part?
Ask any doctor about the cost of complying with Medicare and Medicaid reporting. Many clinics and hospitals have enormous staffs just to handle paperwork.


The malpractice insurance part isn't government mandated AFAIK, so I don't know what exactly government has to do with it.
Doctors perform risky treatments in order to save patients' lives. Sometimes those treatments fail. It's the one area where government would be welcome in protecting doctors from unnecessary lawsuits.

And, When's the last time you saw the NHS donate $8 million in medical technology to an American Hospital.


QD0aMVn-N9M

[AussieFanKurt]

Even if the healthcare is good, the fact that you pay so much makes it virtually inaccessible for so many people and thus almost redundant

[Yonivore]

Even if the healthcare is good, the fact that you pay so much makes it virtually inaccessible for so many people and thus almost redundant
The poor can walk into any emergency room in the country -- except, perhaps, for some elite liberal enclaves in California and New York -- and qualify for the same health care as the President of the United States.

Health care does cost money but, unlike Great Britain, we still have charity hospitals -- especially for children -- than will take patients regardless of ability to pay.

The alternative is bad health care for everyone except the elite who can build their own exclusive hospitals behind gates inaccessible to everyone but those they decide to allow in.

Tell me, does the Queen of England queue up for treatment?

[ChumpDumper]

Oh and BTW, that case went to court and it was ruled as neglect. The judge ruled that the hospital was liable under civil law (just like in America, surprise!). To boot, the staff in charge was plastered in the newspapers, and it forced changes at the hospital, instead of just a payout behind closed doors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18814487

There's a system we can learn a thing or two from.Feh.

Now they need tort reform so the hospital can never be sued [/USA! USA!]

[ElNono]

Ask any doctor about the cost of complying with Medicare and Medicaid reporting. Many clinics and hospitals have enormous staffs just to handle paperwork.

:lol that's how you back it up? (and the reason I asked is that I write medical systems for practices that handle exactly that, so I'm fairly familiar with HIPPA and that aspect of regulation).


Doctors perform risky treatments in order to save patients' lives. Sometimes those treatments fail. It's the one area where government would be welcome in protecting doctors from unnecessary lawsuits.

Oh, I see. This is a case where you're advocating for more, bigger government... :lol

BTW, at last count, Tort reform estimates put them at savings between 0.5% (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/09/AR2009100904271.html) and 0.3% (http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/center-progressive-reform-tort-reform-wont-provide-significant-healthcare-savings) of total healthcare spending, depending who you ask...

[Yonivore]

:lol that's how you back it up? (and the reason I asked is that I write medical systems for practices that handle exactly that, so I'm fairly familiar with HIPPA and that aspect of regulation).
So, you're part of the problem of increased cost due to government regulation.


Oh, I see. This is a case where you're advocating for more, bigger government... :lol

BTW, at last count, Tort reform estimates put them at savings between 0.5% (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/09/AR2009100904271.html) and 0.3% (http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/center-progressive-reform-tort-reform-wont-provide-significant-healthcare-savings) of total healthcare spending, depending who you ask...
If you say so.

[ElNono]

And, When's the last time you saw the NHS donate $8 million in medical technology to an American Hospital.

The NHS saves every UK citizen about $4000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_%28P PP%29_per_capita) annually compared to the US, while providing care for every single one of their citizens...

I'll take that over a $8 million one time donation everytime...

[ChumpDumper]

So, you're part of the problem of increased cost due to government regulation.And you're the solution!



If you say so.He said who says so.

[ElNono]

So, you're part of the problem of increased cost due to government regulation.

I actually help them save money... I set no regulations, I can't be part of the problem.


If you say so.

Well, I didn't say so. I linked to different studies saying so.

[Yonivore]

I actually help them save money... I set no regulations, I can't be part of the problem.
Are you paid to help them save money complying with government regulations?

[AussieFanKurt]

Well, I didn't say so. I linked to different studies saying so.

Either he has nothing to say or gives you the win for this round

[ElNono]

Oh, he'll be back carrying water for the team soon enough...

[Yonivore]

Either he has nothing to say or gives you the win for this round
Or, it's too late to do my own research -- if I cared to.

[ChumpDumper]

yoni's tort reform cost savings are faith based.

[AussieFanKurt]

or that.. I guess

[George Gervin's Afro]

yoni's tort reform cost savings are faith based.

I'm still trying to connect the dots

[FromWayDowntown]

Or, it's too late to do my own research -- if I cared to.

The truth is rarely important in making arguments; feelings, belief, and surmise are always the better way to go.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The truth is rarely important in making arguments; feelings, belief, and surmise are always the better way to go.

I am torn at times on whether to go with stated facts or Yoni's un-researched opinions. I guess he was taught to not question what his beliefs were and was programmed to not critically think.

[Yonivore]

Government Drives Up Health Care Cost (http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/12/04/opinion/government-drives-up-health-care-cost.html)


Note that when the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”) cut “Medicare costs” by 21 percent, they cut Medicare payments to providers. Therefore, they cut services to patients. As Robert Moffit of the Heritage Foundation testified before Congress, “you cannot get more of something by paying less for it.”

Meanwhile, the spending on – the costs of – the federal health care bureaucracy went up by six whole new agencies, hundreds (thousands?) of bureaucrats added to the payrolls, and multithousands of new rules and regulations.
Actually there were tens of thousands of employees added to the IRS, alone, to handle the bureaucracy created by Obamacare. Who knows what the final figure will be? Will the cost of the added bureaucracies and the shifting of medicare costs be calculated into the overall cost of health care?


As a doctor, I can charge whatever I like for a cardiac catheterization in a baby. The actual bill can read $2,000, $4,000 or as is commonly true, over $5,000. Regardless of my “price,” I get paid $387. That is what the government pays. So the price may seem steep, but the payment is peanuts.
So, costs on the insured and cash-paying customers is so high because health care providers have to compensate for the pittance they receive from the government-controlled medicare remittances.


For Medicare, just like for my caths, payments are now lower than the cost-of-staying-in-business. So if you want to know why you can no longer see your Medicare doctor, it is because the more Medicare patients she or he sees, the quicker the doctor goes broke.
Doctors Are Opting Out of Medicare (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html)


The prices may seem out of control or steep, but payments to providers are tiny and shrinking.
We were promised, If you like your doctor, you can keep him and if you like your insurance company, you can keep them. Neither of which is turning out to be true.

We were also promised Obamacare would lower the cost of health care and it's doing no such thing. In fact, Obamacare is going to cost three times as much as promised, over the next 10 years.

New Numbers Show ObamaCare Will Cost 3 Times More Than President Promised (http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/12/new-numbers-show-obamacare-will-cost-3-times-more-than-president-promised/)

It's the government, stupid.

[ElNono]

^ more garbage narratives followed by some boutons-style Tourette...

Let me remind you the claim you've yet to back up:


A good deal of the cost of medical care is found in regulatory compliance

The ACA being a piece of shit is well-known, you won't get an argument about that here.