Romney a Deadbeat?

[Nbadan]

Why won't Romney show us the returns??

Reid doubles down on tax claims


We noted yesterday that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told the Huffington Post that what he claimed was a Bain Capital investor had called him to say Mitt Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years - without saying who told him this, or what basis there was for the claim.

Earlier today, he doubled down on the unsubstantiated claim with reporters in Nevada:

"I am not basing this on some figment of my imagination," Reid said in a telephone call with Nevada reporters. "I have had a number of people tell me that."

Asked to elaborate on his sources, Reid declined. "No, that's the best you're going to get from me."

"I don't think the burden should be on me," Reid said. "The burden should be on him. He's the one I've alleged has not paid any taxes. Why didn't he release his tax returns?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/08/reid-doubles-down-on-tax-claims-130846.html

Couple that with Rachel Maddow's report on that subject tonight:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#48454163

and the heat rises on Romney because coupled with the tax policy Romney is promoting where he personally stands to make considerably more money with his "blind" Cayman Islands-Bermuda-Swiss trust, the concerns are justified.

[scott]

I'm amazed Romney has not taken the easy, obvious solution to this that even his supporters have suggested: release the returns even if (and maybe especially if) they are $0 taxes and use it as a catalyst for tax reform with a statement such as "it is true I paid no taxes these years, but I did not break the law. The fact I legally paid no taxes highlights the need for tax reform that ensures all Americans pay their fair share."

This is a fairly vague statement that is populist in nature, and even would let him support tax cuts for the rich later if he wanted without "technically lying". The only reason not to make it would be that he believes in a tax policy that legally allows millionaires to pay nothing. If that is the case, he should definitely keep that to himself, because he'll lose in a landslide based on that policy.

[scott]

Sorry for any typos, on an iPad.

[ElNono]

I'm amazed Romney has not taken the easy, obvious solution to this that even his supporters have suggested: release the returns even if (and maybe especially if) they are $0 taxes and use it as a catalyst for tax reform with a statement such as "it is true I paid no taxes these years, but I did not break the law. The fact I legally paid no taxes highlights the need for tax reform that ensures all Americans pay their fair share."

This is a fairly vague statement that is populist in nature, and even would let him support tax cuts for the rich later if he wanted without "technically lying". The only reason not to make it would be that he believes in a tax policy that legally allows millionaires to pay nothing. If that is the case, he should definitely keep that to himself, because he'll lose in a landslide based on that policy.

Well, see, that's the kind of vague talk that would perk the center's ear...

The problem is that certain catchphrases like "everybody pay their fair share", have been flipped to have some other ulterior meaning... "OMG, that's code-word for tax the rich! Why do they hate successful people?"...

I think Romney is aware he's not the kind of guy to really excites the party base, so he'll keep the rabid right narrative up until the convention to make sure he has as much base support until then. After that, I really do think he needs to start throwing some catchphrases like the above to start fishing the center/undecided.

[spursncowboys]

I'm amazed Romney has not taken the easy, obvious solution to this that even his supporters have suggested: release the returns even if (and maybe especially if) they are $0 taxes and use it as a catalyst for tax reform with a statement such as "it is true I paid no taxes these years, but I did not break the law. The fact I legally paid no taxes highlights the need for tax reform that ensures all Americans pay their fair share."

This is a fairly vague statement that is populist in nature, and even would let him support tax cuts for the rich later if he wanted without "technically lying". The only reason not to make it would be that he believes in a tax policy that legally allows millionaires to pay nothing. If that is the case, he should definitely keep that to himself, because he'll lose in a landslide based on that policy.

He made his decision not to. I think he would look weak if he did now. I also think that sooner or later, if not already, will start making Obama look bad for still focusing on the same minor issue. Especially if another bad economic report comes out.

[spursncowboys]

Well, see, that's the kind of vague talk that would perk the center's ear...

The problem is that certain catchphrases like "everybody pay their fair share", have been flipped to have some other ulterior meaning... "OMG, that's code-word for tax the rich! Why do they hate successful people?"...

I think Romney is aware he's not the kind of guy to really excites the party base, so he'll keep the rabid right narrative up until the convention to make sure he has as much base support until then. After that, I really do think he needs to start throwing some catchphrases like the above to start fishing the center/undecided.
I'm someone who hears that phrase and think that. If he could explain what exactly is the "rich" fair shair, but of course he wont. He's a politician. I would love to see him actually come up with some budget cuts (besides his favorite target-military) in the same breathe as tax raises. Then again Obamacare is the largest tax increase in American history.

[Clipper Nation]

You're really claiming that a President who has expanded drone use and continued to meddle in world affairs like Dubya did hates the military? Wow.....

[clambake]

they had to fill his empty head with something.

[DarrinS]

Guilty until proven innocent. I like it.

[boutons_deux]

Gecko ain't never gonna do anything but cut taxes on the rich more than the 99%. The House Repug plan raises taxes on the 99% while cutting on himself/1%.

Gecko's announced tax plan:

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/romney-obama-tax.jpg

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/02/626651/morning-briefing-romneys-neocon-adviser-shapes-foreign-policy-plan/

If Gecko wimps out now and releases 10 years of tax returns, then no matter what they contain (and he thinks that contents would be bad for him), then the empty-man, feckless, flopping, pandering wimp label becomes a lot stickier.

[spursncowboys]

You're really claiming that a President who has expanded drone use and continued to meddle in world affairs like Dubya did hates the military? Wow.....

I don't think he hates military. But we go on the chop block very often. Base closings; no pay raise since he's been in office; icreasing tricare by 300%; pushing military out of tricare prime; 10+ Brigade standdowns; cutting funding for c27's and MRAPs; etc.

With most military doing absentee balloting and AUSA (my lobbying group) seeming to be the worst lobbyists it's not hard to see why Dems target military, and why Repubs don't fight for us like both parties do for defense contractor companies.

[spursncowboys]

FTR there is a story about how obama didn't even know they put another round of BRAC and the cutting of c27's into his budget.

[spursncowboys]

The most liberal senator becomes president and takes a more neo-con approach to foreign affairs, when America has it's lowest view of wars of any kind(since Vietfuknnam) should tell you something about what kind of info he is getting that we aren't. It's not like he is going for the "war-monger" vote.

[jack sommerset]

I'm amazed Romney has not taken the easy, obvious solution to this that even his supporters have suggested.

That's what people said about Obama's birth certificate. God bless

[scott]

He made his decision not to. I think he would look weak if he did now. I also think that sooner or later, if not already, will start making Obama look bad for still focusing on the same minor issue. Especially if another bad economic report comes out.

I think that's a lot of wishful thinking on your behalf. The more stories like this that come out, and the longer Romney delays in releasing them, the worse it will be for him.

The point that I'd make (and has been made by a lot of people - including leading conservatives like Bill Kristol) is that the issue of the returns is not the question of whether or not Romney did anything illegal in his tax return. I'm going out on a limb and saying that most sane people probably believe he didn't pay a cent more than the tax code required. That isn't the issue here.

The issue is that in a time where tax policy is a central part of the national debate, especially the issue of taxes on the wealthiest individuals, we have a nominee who may or may not be paying less than the average citizen who makes far less. This isn't like whether or not Obama will release his college transcripts, because those aren't germane to a discussion on tax policy. The question is whether or not Romney thinks the current policy he (may have been) benefiting from is the right one for the United States.

If he came out and publicly supported the portions of the tax code that (possibly) allowed him to pay zero - he would lose in a landslide, because the vast majority of Americans disagree with this idea.

The longer he waits, the worse it will get. This is red meat for his opposition.

[elbamba]

I'm amazed Romney has not taken the easy, obvious solution to this that even his supporters have suggested: release the returns even if (and maybe especially if) they are $0 taxes and use it as a catalyst for tax reform with a statement such as "it is true I paid no taxes these years, but I did not break the law. The fact I legally paid no taxes highlights the need for tax reform that ensures all Americans pay their fair share."

This is a fairly vague statement that is populist in nature, and even would let him support tax cuts for the rich later if he wanted without "technically lying". The only reason not to make it would be that he believes in a tax policy that legally allows millionaires to pay nothing. If that is the case, he should definitely keep that to himself, because he'll lose in a landslide based on that policy.

I disagree. Romney has nothing to gain at this point by releasing more tax returns. Poor people file 50 page tax returns. Romney's are probably 600 pages each. Romney would be handing Obama and a media, that is already against him, nothing but ammunition to distract his message. His message might be simplistic but it is the most effective tool that he has and that is that the economy sucks and Obama's policies have failed. Most independent voters can get behind this over releasing a tax return. Maybe not all, especially independents that tend to lean left, but that is the calculated risk that Romney has to make.

When Obama released his returns, I spent all of five minutes looking at them and was bored. I can guarantee you I spent five more minutes than 99% of the voting population spent looking at those returns and the same percentages would hold true for people actually interested in seeing Romney's returns.

No one has bothered to read the returns Romney has released. Instead they focus on his rate and foreign bank accounts. As if Romney did anything wrong by taking advantage of the loop holes congress, but republican and democrats, have passed.

Making the populist stand sounds good. But if released his records as you suggest, there would be nothing but 4 months of Romney's tax rates, money overseas and other 30 second clips that really don't matter one bit.

Most undecided voters are undecided because they are capable of weighing evidence. It has been my experience that "unnamed sources" and my "friend" on the inside is not highly persuasive when trying to persuade an individual with a scintilla of intelligence. The only people who really care about this story are people who have already made up their mind who they are voting for.

Romney needs to stay focused on the economy, the unemployment rate, food stamps, the unpopularity of Obamacare and his success in business and the Olympics. If he wins, it will rest on this.

[scott]

Well, see, that's the kind of vague talk that would perk the center's ear...

The problem is that certain catchphrases like "everybody pay their fair share", have been flipped to have some other ulterior meaning... "OMG, that's code-word for tax the rich! Why do they hate successful people?"...

I think Romney is aware he's not the kind of guy to really excites the party base, so he'll keep the rabid right narrative up until the convention to make sure he has as much base support until then. After that, I really do think he needs to start throwing some catchphrases like the above to start fishing the center/undecided.

Well, that's why Romney presumably pays his staff. To take on a fire, extinguish it, and turn it around to his advantage.

He could easily say:

1) Here are my tax returns.
2) Yes, I paid zero. Legally.
3) I should be able to pay zero.
4) Here is my plan to make sure everyone pays into the system (which could even include a tax cut for the rich if he wanted - that would keep the base on board while simultaneously appealing to some moderates. He isn't going to get liberals either way, so why be afraid of pissing them off?)

[elbamba]

The longer he waits, the worse it will get. This is red meat for his opposition.

It will be red meat if he releases it. There will be months of advertising not based on BS speculation like Reid's but rather, twisted facts that people may think is accurate because the returns were released.

Look at what Obama has done with the two years Romeny has released. Its all about his rate and foreign investments. As if it is wrong to invest your personal money overseas or take advante of tax loopholes you did not pass.

[scott]

I disagree. Romney has nothing to gain at this point by releasing more tax returns. Poor people file 50 page tax returns. Romney's are probably 600 pages each. Romney would be handing Obama and a media, that is already against him, nothing but ammunition to distract his message. His message might be simplistic but it is the most effective tool that he has and that is that the economy sucks and Obama's policies have failed. Most independent voters can get behind this over releasing a tax return. Maybe not all, especially independents that tend to lean left, but that is the calculated risk that Romney has to make.

When Obama released his returns, I spent all of five minutes looking at them and was bored. I can guarantee you I spent five more minutes than 99% of the voting population spent looking at those returns and the same percentages would hold true for people actually interested in seeing Romney's returns.

No one has bothered to read the returns Romney has released. Instead they focus on his rate and foreign bank accounts. As if Romney did anything wrong by taking advantage of the loop holes congress, but republican and democrats, have passed.

Making the populist stand sounds good. But if released his records as you suggest, there would be nothing but 4 months of Romney's tax rates, money overseas and other 30 second clips that really don't matter one bit.

Most undecided voters are undecided because they are capable of weighing evidence. It has been my experience that "unnamed sources" and my "friend" on the inside is not highly persuasive when trying to persuade an individual with a scintilla of intelligence. The only people who really care about this story are people who have already made up their mind who they are voting for.

Romney needs to stay focused on the economy, the unemployment rate, food stamps, the unpopularity of Obamacare and his success in business and the Olympics. If he wins, it will rest on this.

You make some valid points, though I disagree on whether he has nothing to gain and everything to lose. The avoidance issue looks shady to people, and if Romney released more, the majority of people wouldn't even bother to look at it and move on.

The Obama campaign is going to run negative ads either way. If Romney did nothing wrong in his tax return (and I don't think he did) - then why wouldn't he want those things to be the center of negative ads against me? He can effectively control the meat of the attacks against him, thus creating greater flexibility in turning those attacks around to his advantage.

[scott]

It will be red meat if he releases it. There will be months of advertising not based on BS speculation like Reid's but rather, twisted facts that people may think is accurate because the returns were released.

Look at what Obama has done with the two years Romeny has released. Its all about his rate and foreign investments. As if it is wrong to invest your personal money overseas or take advante of tax loopholes you did not pass.

Obama is using it, because the idea that these loopholes should be allowed in the future is a core part of the tax debate in this country.

Again, Romney would be wise to even make this statement about the returns he HAS released:

1) Yes, I took advantage of tax loopholes.
2) I didn't write these laws, I just followed them. Completely legal.

He has made these two responses, correctly, thus far. What he has left out is the policy debate part of it, where he should say:

3) I think we should close these loopholes.

That's how he wins, or at least gets ahead, of that issue.

If he he publicly includes these loopholes as part of his tax policy, he loses big time.

[scott]

That's what people said about Obama's birth certificate. God bless

So it's a "You did it first!" defense? Gotcha.

[scott]

I'm someone who hears that phrase and think that. If he could explain what exactly is the "rich" fair shair, but of course he wont. He's a politician. I would love to see him actually come up with some budget cuts (besides his favorite target-military) in the same breathe as tax raises. Then again Obamacare is the largest tax increase in American history.

I think Obama has pretty clearly explained the what he thinks the "fair share" is: 39.6% on marginal income over $250,000.

You can agree or disagree, but to say "he won't explain" says you aren't paying attention.

[elbamba]

Obama is using it, because the idea that these loopholes should be allowed in the future is a core part of the tax debate in this country.

Again, Romney would be wise to even make this statement about the returns he HAS released:

1) Yes, I took advantage of tax loopholes.
2) I didn't write these laws, I just followed them. Completely legal.

He has made these two responses, correctly, thus far. What he has left out is the policy debate part of it, where he should say:

3) I think we should close these loopholes.

That's how he wins, or at least gets ahead, of that issue.

If he he publicly includes these loopholes as part of his tax policy, he loses big time.

I get what you are saying and if we lived in a society where people really educated themselves instead of waiting for 30 second sound bites I would agree with everything you said. Sadly, people, or at least the media that most people inform themselves with, is more interested in taking clips like "you didn't built that" and "I like to fire people" and turing them into policy.

If I were Romney, and I know that I am not liked by many voters, including within my own party, I stay focused on pissing people off with the economy, entitlements and unemployment. Anger inspires more than reason.

[elbamba]

I should say, anger seems to get more votes than reason.

[boutons_deux]

10 Theories About What Mitt Romney's Really Hiding in Those Tax Returns

Mitt Romney knows how to do a cost-benefit analysis, and he's determined that it's better to be dogged by reporters for failing to release his tax returns for the duration of the 2012 campaign than it is to make the documents public. Never mind that a majority of Americans – and a third of Republicans – think he should come clean.

It's beyond obvious that whatever's in those returns must be enough to do serious damage to Romney, or even sink his candidacy completely.

What might it be, exactly? In the vaccuum Romney has created by not disclosing, any number of theories have been floated as to what his returns could reveal. For your convenience, we've collected 10 theories that are making the rounds in the political press.

1. Mormon Tithes

Mormons are expected to fork over 10 percent of their income to the Church of Latter Day Saints. And that fact leads us to two theories.

First, Rachel Zoll of the Associated Press speculated [3] that Romney doesn't want to remind evangelical Christians that he belongs to what many consider a non-Christian “cult.” “The Republican candidate's commitment to the church is a double-edged sword in the contest for the presidential nomination,” she wrote. “Many GOP voters are Christians who do not consider Mormons to be part of historic Christianity. Romney supporters worry that details of his church donations contained in the tax returns could fuel opposition to him based on his religion.”

But it may be the other way around – perhaps he doesn't want to piss off Mormons. After all, the right-wing Daily Caller reported that in 2010 and 2011, the two years for which Romney released partial returns, it looks like the former Mormon bishop under-tithed the church, paying 7 percent of his income one year and 9.7 percent over the two-year period. As the Caller noted [4], “Romney recently told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, 'I made a commitment to my church a long, long time ago that I would give 10 percent of my income to the church, and I’ve followed through on that commitment. So, if I had given less than 10 percent, then I think people would have to look at me and say, ‘Hey, what’s wrong with you fella — don’t you follow through on your promises?’”

Of course, if he were sheltering additional income in offshore accounts, then the degree to which the Caller says he shortchanged the Mormons might be even greater.

2. Things That Might Infuriate the Base

Mitt Romney, who just four years ago was dubbed the “conservative alternative” to John McCain is probably, as he claims, “severely conservative.” But when he wanted to become governor of Massachussetts, he played to that state's politics, swearing to protect a woman's right to choose, saying that climate change isn't a socialist plot and generally being reasonable. He passed the precursor to Obamacare, which he now condemns as a sign of looming tyranny.

Rick Newman at US News and World Report wonders [5] whether Romney really stopped supporting those causes when he claims to have converted himself into a far-right Republican. Could he have a bunch of itemized deductions to, say, Planned Parenthood listed on those returns? We'd be wrong not to speculate.

3. Harry Reid, Lazy Blogger

That's how Wonkette characterized [6] Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's unsourced, second-hand rumor that Mitt Romney paid no taxes at all over a 10-year period. (This is very unlikely, due to the Alternative Minimum Tax.)

But many, many people have speculated that the reason Mitt doesn't want to reveal his tax returns is that they will show that he paid a significantly lower rate than his campaign has claimed in the years prior to 2010.

4. It's the IRAs

Mitt Romney has an Individual Retirement Account, just like you probably do! But unlike you, Mitt has somewhere between $20 and $101 million in his account.

We know that the maximum amount one can contribute to an IRA account is $17,000 per year (employers can match that with up to $30,000). So that would be a pretty impressive performance – what an investor!

Or what a cheat. Michael Graetz, a professor of tax law at Columbia University and a former official in the senior Bush's Treasury Department, suggested [7] that to get such a fat IRA, “we have to presume that Mr. Romney valued the assets he put in his retirement account at far less than he would have sold them for.”

He continues:

The I.R.A. also allows Mr. Romney to diversify his large holdings tax-free, avoiding the 15 percent tax on capital gains that would otherwise apply. His financial disclosure further reveals that his I.R.A. freed him from paying currently the 35 percent income tax on hundreds of thousands of dollars of interest income each year.

5. The Mini-Mitts

Graetz has a second theory about what Mitt might be hiding, and it also has to do with dramatically under-valuing his assets in order to screw over Uncle Sam.

It has to do with a trust he set up for his five sons in 1995. Graetz explains that until this year, there was a $1 million life-time exemption on such gifts, and after that they should have been taxed at between 29-44 percent. So Mitt would have been on the hook for between $29 and $44 million in gift taxes.

“Based on his aggressive tax planning,” writes Graetz, “my bet is that — if Mr. Romney filed a gift tax return for these transfers at all — he put a low or even zero value on the gifts, certainly a small fraction of the price at which he would have sold the transferred assets to an unrelated party.”

Wouldn't he get busted with such a brazen strategy to avoid paying taxes? After all, that's some pretty serious tax fraud. Well, catching Mitt in this kind of scheme might be harder than one would think. Graetz explains that “every good tax professional knows that gift tax returns are rarely audited, except after the transferer’s death. And normally the I.R.S. cannot challenge such a return after three years from its filing.”

6. Is It All About 2009?

BusinessWeek's Joshua Green thinks Romney may not want to reveal his taxes for one year in particular – 2009. That's because Romney probably took some significant losses when the economy crashed in 2008. Green explains [8]:

It’s possible he suffered a large enough capital loss that, carried forward and coupled with his various offshore tax havens, he wound up paying no U.S. federal taxes at all in 2009. If true, this would be politically deadly for him...

The “zero tax in 2009” theory—again, this is sheer speculation—gains further sustenance when you consider it’s the only year for which nobody knows anything about Romney’s taxes. He’s revealed what’s in his 2010 and 2011 returns, and he reportedly submitted 20-some years’ worth of returns to the McCain campaign when he was being vetted for vice president in 2008. Steve Schmidt, McCain’s chief strategist in that campaign, said on MSNBC,,, that while he didn’t examine Romney’s returns himself, nothing that McCain’s vetters found in them disqualified Romney from consideration.

7. CEO, President and Chairman of Bain

You probably know that Mitt claims he retired – or perhaps retired “retroactively” – from Bain Capital in 1999. You probably also know that almost three years later, as the Huffington Post reported [9], “Romney was listed as the CEO, chairman and president of the company... in documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission; took a six-figure salary; signed corporate documents related to major and minor deals and attended board meetings for at least two Bain-affiliated companies.”

It's possible that releasing his returns could clarify exactly what involvement he had with Bain after 1999. And that might reveal that Romney was, contrary to his claims [10], involved in Bain's decision to invest in Stericycle, a medical waste company that disposed of aborted fetuses. Ben LaBolt, an Obama campaign spokesman, told Fox News: "If he released more documents, like further tax returns, we would know the extent of his involvement at Bain during this period.”

8. Is Mitt a Felon?

Relatedly, in 2011, Mitt Romney signed a financial disclosure form and sent it to the Federal Election Commission. In it, he stated emphatically that he had no active role in the company after February 1999. That claim appears to be contradicted by a number of other documents.

It's a felony to lie on an FEC financial disclosure form [11]. Some forms of tax evasion are also felonies. Mitt's tax returns might offer proof that he committed a crime.

9. Are There Other Non-Disclosures?

There's lying on a disclosure form, and then there's not filing required forms. The LA Times reports [12] that “at least 23 funds and partnerships listed in [Mitt's] 2010 tax returns did not show up or were not listed in the same fashion on Romney’s most recent financial disclosure, including 11 based in low-tax foreign countries such as Bermuda, the Cayman Islands and Luxembourg.”

More tax returns might reveal other investments that Romney has failed to disclose, as he is required to do by law.

10. There's Nothing – It's Just His Sense of Entitlement

Esquire's James Wolcott doesn't think there's any there there [13]. Sure, Romney's tax returns would provide an object lesson in how the ultra-rich avoid paying their fair share of taxes, but everyone already knows that those at the top of the pile game the system. For Wolcott, the issue comes down to Romney refusing to bow to the little people on principle.

It is helpful always to remind yourself that, in the mind of Willard Romney, there are only two kinds of people — himself and his family, and the Help. Throughout his career, and especially throughout his brief political career, Romney has treated the Help with a kind of lordly disdain...

The Help has no right to go pawing through the family books, giggling at the obvious loopholes and tax dodges, running amok through all the tax shelters, and probably getting their chocolate-y fingerprints all over the pages of the Romney family ledger. And, certainly, those members of the Help in the employ of the president of the United States, who is also part of the Help, have no right to use the nearly comically ostentatious wealth of the Romney as some sort of scrimey political weapon. He does not have to answer to the Help. I mean, jeepers, he's running for office.

This isn't stubbornness. That's often an acquired trait. What this is, fundamentally, is contempt. Contempt for the process, and contempt for the people who make their living in that process, and contempt for the people whose lives depend on that process. There are rules for the Help with which Willard Romney never has had to abide, and he has no intention of starting now. My dear young fellow, this simply is not done.

The Most Likely Explanation

Given Romney's refusal to release his returns, this kind of speculation is entirely predictable. But the most likely reason Romney doesn't want to release his returns is that they'll cast a bright light on the aggressive tax avoidance strategies the super-rich use every day – strategies David Cay Johnston outlined so well in his excellent book, Perfectly Legal [14]. The Romney campaign keeps assuring us that he paid all taxes required by law, and that very well might be the problem.

A Vanity Fair investigation [15] into the trickle of tax documents that Romney has disclosed – under intense pressure – found that they “provided a lavish smorgasbord for Romney’s critics. Particularly jarring were the Romneys’ many offshore accounts.”

To give but one example, there is a Bermuda-based entity called Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors Ltd., which has been described in securities filings as “a Bermuda corporation wholly owned by W. Mitt Romney.” It could be that Sankaty is an old vehicle with little importance, but Romney appears to have treated it rather carefully. He set it up in 1997, then transferred it to his wife’s newly created blind trust on January 1, 2003, the day before he was inaugurated as Massachusetts’s governor. The director and president of this entity is R. Bradford Malt, the trustee of the blind trust and Romney’s personal lawyer. Romney failed to list this entity on several financial disclosures, even though such a closely held entity would not qualify as an “excepted investment fund” that would not need to be on his disclosure forms. He finally included it on his 2010 tax return. Even after examining that return, we have no idea what is in this company, but it could be valuable, meaning that it is possible Romney’s wealth is even greater than previous estimates. While the Romneys’ spokespeople insist that the couple has paid all the taxes required by law, investments in tax havens such as Bermuda raise many questions, because they are in “jurisdictions where there is virtually no tax and virtually no compliance,” as one Miami-based offshore lawyer put it.

While James Wolcott thinks that it's “hardly a secret anymore” that “our tax code — and, indeed, our entire economic system — has been gamed to benefit the folks in Romney's economic stratum,” most people probably don't have a firm grasp on precisely how the vaunted “job creators” avoid paying their fair share, and the release of Romney's returns would offer a teachable moment.

As real estate billionaire Leona Helmsley once said, “Only the little people pay taxes.” That's not the message Mitt Romney wants to convey during a campaign that has a lot to do with tax cuts for the wealthiest.


http://www.alternet.org/print/election-2012/10-theories-about-what-mitt-romneys-really-hiding-those-tax-returns

[Clipper Nation]

If I were Romney, and I know that I am not liked by many voters, including within my own party, I stay focused on pissing people off with the economy, entitlements and unemployment. Anger inspires more than reason.
Problem is, Willard pisses his own base off with his ever-changing views and the fact that he's basically McCain 2.0.... he also pisses everyone else off with his snobby trust fund brat demeanor and refusal to release his tax returns.... he just isn't likeable, and I think that if he tries too hard to be likeable, it might turn out even worse for him.....

[scott]

I get what you are saying and if we lived in a society where people really educated themselves instead of waiting for 30 second sound bites I would agree with everything you said. Sadly, people, or at least the media that most people inform themselves with, is more interested in taking clips like "you didn't built that" and "I like to fire people" and turing them into policy.

If I were Romney, and I know that I am not liked by many voters, including within my own party, I stay focused on pissing people off with the economy, entitlements and unemployment. Anger inspires more than reason.

But like you said - the undecideds are undecided because they are capable of weighing evidence.

Romney and Obama both have about 40% of the vote locked up, respectively. The battle is for that last 20%, who presumably will weigh the evidence, and be less swayed by attack ads, whatever happens to be in them.

With that said, I agree with you and I am skeptical of how many of that 20% would actually weigh the evidence. I fully admit that I consider political strategy with the bias of what appeals to me (thus why I have certain opinions of what Romney should do).

[jack sommerset]

So it's a "You did it first!" defense? Gotcha.

No sir. That might be your mentality but that's not mine. I don't know why politicians or anyone for that matter don't go the easy and obvious route that leave folks like you "amazed". I'm saying they all do this. Got it? God bless

[elbamba]

Problem is, Willard pisses his own base off with his ever-changing views and the fact that he's basically McCain 2.0.... he also pisses everyone else off with his snobby trust fund brat demeanor and refusal to release his tax returns.... he just isn't likeable, and I think that if he tries too hard to be likeable, it might turn out even worse for him.....

That is my point. He is not going to make people like him. He is a rich New Englander with a car garage elevator. He is LeBron James without the basketball skill. No one really likes him.

But what many people hate more than Mitt Romney is a bad economy, 8.2% unemployment, food stamps that can buy sugar cookies at Valero and Obamacare. That is the only argument Romney can make to win this election. He is not going to outcool Obama and he is certainly not going to policy his way into the white house.

[Clipper Nation]

That is my point. He is not going to make people like him. He is a rich New Englander with a car garage elevator.
Painting Obama as an evil economy ruiner implies that Willard is a less evil, more likeable candidate, tbh.... that just isn't going to work because he's so transparent, people see right through his bullshit.....


But what many people hate more than Mitt Romney is a bad economy, 8.2% unemployment, food stamps that can buy sugar cookies at Valero and Obamacare.
They also hate paying high taxes.... Willard proposed so many tax hikes as Massachusetts governor that the DEMOCRATS got annoyed and started voting against them....

Furthermore, it's already well-known that Romneycare was pretty much the template for Obamacare, so his attacks on that don't really mean much.....

[ChumpDumper]

Guilty until proven innocent. I like it.Of course you like it, birther.

[ElNono]

His message might be simplistic but it is the most effective tool that he has and that is that the economy sucks and Obama's policies have failed. Most independent voters can get behind this over releasing a tax return.

I just don't buy this when it comes to the independents/center. While I don't think the taxes drama weights much over them either, I doubt he can just coast to a win with near-zero policy proposals on how he's going to change the economy.

[DarrinS]

Of course you like it, birther.

You must share clambake's belief that accusations become truth by repetition.

[clambake]

You must share clambake's belief that accusations become truth by repetition.

you bring it up all the time without even noticing.

it used to be calculated......now its just normal.

[DMX7]

I'm someone who hears that phrase and think that. If he could explain what exactly is the "rich" fair shair, but of course he wont. He's a politician. I would love to see him actually come up with some budget cuts (besides his favorite target-military) in the same breathe as tax raises. Then again Obamacare is the largest tax increase in American history.

When you speak in talking points, it makes you look like an even bigger tool than you already are.

[spursncowboys]

I think Obama has pretty clearly explained the what he thinks the "fair share" is: 39.6% on marginal income over $250,000.

You can agree or disagree, but to say "he won't explain" says you aren't paying attention.

He has spoke in different times about not extending the Bush cuts and saying the rich need to pay their fair share.

death tax.
buffet tax
etc.
The bush tax cuts are completely different towards all his other general talks about raising taxes. He has been doing this, I think, to test the waters

[TheProfessor]

So, it appears Romney fired back at Reid during a Hannity radio interview. Reid successfully draws Romney into another battle that has nothing to do with the economy. Not sure why he would bother to engage Reid directly and add more fuel to this fire, particularly if he has no intention of releasing further tax returns.

[Nbadan]

Harry Reid's Brilliant Move
by TheNewDeal00



I love the new, tough guy Harry Reid of late. I hope to see more of him and hope he is still majority leader after the elections.

But this post is about a brilliant tactical move by Reid. It might not seem that way right now, but if you step outside of the situation and look in, it's brilliant.

Mitt Romney refuses to release his tax returns.

By doing so he is showing that he has something to hide, which causes people to speculate. The evil you don't know is always worse than the evil you know and our curiosity and imagination is usually more fabricated than the actual thing itself.

It is obvious that for some reason Romney would rather get the bad press and speculation for not releasing his returns than get the bad press for releasing whatever is in them.

Harry Reid said that someone from Bain Capital had told him that Romney won't release the returns because he hasn't payed taxes in a decade. He said that it was an 'extremely credible source', but at this moment we don't know who it is.

I think it is true. It wouldn't shock me one bit if Romney hasn't paid taxes in a decade. The rich not paying taxes is not an uncommon thing these days. Reid didn't slip up or gaff, I think he picked this fight on purpose.

Let's put aside the debate over if it is true or not and just focus on the effect.

What happened after Reid made this claim?

1. The charge that Mitt may not have paid taxes for a decade made headlines all over America.

2. Reminded people that Mitt still has not released his returns and recharged the demand to see them, which was starting to fade a bit.

3. It's forcing Romney to defend these charges while still withholding the very documents that could clear his name and splat egg in all our faces if they are clean.

But most importantly, this is defining Romney as a tax dodger. This issue is getting away from him by his own inaction on releasing his returns.

If he does not release his returns and clear this up, I promise you this will not go away. Reid's claim will become the unofficial truth until Mitt can prove otherwise. And if Reid presents his source and it checks out... it's game over for Romney. I hope he does, but if he doesn't it will weaken Reid's claim in the long run, but Romney will be a tax dodger until he can prove otherwise.

Some people would call this a dirty trick. I highly disagree. Besides, as far as the right goes, I refuse to get lectured about campaign ethics from a party that demanded Obama's birth certificate because he's black. This is fair game.

The right is trying to spin this by saying that Reid threw a charge at Romney and since he won't disprove it, we are saying he must be guilty. Claiming that by our logic, they could accuse Reid of being a unicorn rapist and since we can't disprove it, Reid is guilty.

If Reid was repeatedly asked to release his criminal record and relentlessly refused, I could understand the speculation. It would appear that Reid was hiding something.

But we are not throwing slanderous accusations at Romney. He has been asked over and over to release his tax returns like every other presidential candidate and he won't do it. He has no good reason or excuse for why he won't do it. This is not a special case, we aren't asking to see his long form birth certificate or anything. I don't think that wondering if a guy running for President and refusing to show tax returns may not have paid his taxes is a radical thought.

If Romney can't provide proof that he paid his taxes like every candidate does, people will speculate and wonder why not. They will wonder what he's hiding. You can call it politics, but in this case I think it's just human nature. We don't like being lied to and patronized. When we know people are hiding something from us, we imagine what it might be.

So basically, Reid put Romney between a rock and a hard place...

Not release his tax returns and allow the speculation to continue and grow or release them or take the backlash for whatever it is he's hiding?

Harry Reid has put this issue back on the forefront and made it much harder for Romney to shake the Etch-a-Stetch on this.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/03/1116175/-Harry-Reid-s-Brilliant-Move

[scott]

He has spoke in different times about not extending the Bush cuts and saying the rich need to pay their fair share.

death tax.
buffet tax
etc.
The bush tax cuts are completely different towards all his other general talks about raising taxes. He has been doing this, I think, to test the waters

In the same way he is coming after everyone's guns?

[Wild Cobra Kai]

He made his decision not to. I think he would look weak if he did now. I also think that sooner or later, if not already, will start making Obama look bad for still focusing on the same minor issue. Especially if another bad economic report comes out.


That's what people said about Obama's birth certificate. God bless

[boutons_deux]

"focusing on the same minor issue"

minor :lol

[jack sommerset]

Brother, it's minor. IRS doesn't play around. Obama is the president, he will make sure if Romney was doing something wrong the IRS will pounce. Positive energy, brother. God bless

[Bartleby]

It's not about the legality of Mitt's taxes. This isn't going away and Mitt's polling numbers are taking a pounding. At this point he needs to hope for another economic crash or a huge Obama scandal. Otherwise he is probably done.

[boutons_deux]

Brother, it's minor. IRS doesn't play around. Obama is the president, he will make sure if Romney was doing something wrong the IRS will pounce. Positive energy, brother. God bless

Gecko NoWhereMan is all you've got, and he stinks.

The tax evasion/avoidance industry financed by the 1% has a much higher budget and talent pool than the IRS. The IRS is great for fucking over the 99%, but is no match for the 1% tax avoiders/evaders.

Until Gecko comes clean, vets himself financially, with 10+ years of tax returns, the assumption is that, and he knows it, financial transparency would be suicidal for his Pres campaign. iow, if he's got nothing to hide, then show it. But he's got plenty to hide.

[jack sommerset]

It's not about the legality of Mitt's taxes. This isn't going away and Mitt's polling numbers are taking a pounding. At this point he needs to hope for another economic crash or a huge Obama scandal. Otherwise he is probably done.

You might be looking at this too closely. It does not matter. The big picture is economy, healthcare. Warmongering and murder should come Into play but we know the media has been manipulated. Obama doesn't have morals, humility, pride, common sense, etc.... This vote will be about money. God bless

[Th'Pusher]

Can't some anaon, hack the IRS and release these tax returns wiki-leak style?

[jack sommerset]

Gecko NoWhereMan is all you've got, and he stinks.

The tax evasion/avoidance industry financed by the 1% has a much higher budget and talent pool than the IRS. The IRS is great for fucking over the 99%, but is not match for the 1% tax avoiders/evaders.

Until Gecko comes clean, vets himself financially, with 10+ years of tax returns, the assumption is that, and he knows it, financial transparency would be suicidal for his Pres campaign. iow, if he's got nothing to hide, then show it. But he's got plenty to hide.

Brother, you are wrong. Repugs and democraps care about all the ankle biting. The people who decide on presidential elections, the independents they care about bigger issues like economy, war, unemployment, The new healthcare law not 99 percent of the junk you post. Don't be mad at me, brother. God bless

[jack sommerset]

Can't some anaon, hack the IRS and release these tax returns wiki-leak style?

Honestly, what on earth do you think is on his tax sheet? Write offs for hookers? It's silly. If he is breaking laws, the IRS will catch him. God bless

[jack sommerset]

Good for him if he didnt pay as much taxes as the dems wanted him to. That's one of the differences with repugs and dems. One group wants everyone to pay more the other doesn't. Shocking news! God bless

[clambake]

don't you worry, jack. your overlords will protect you.

[jack sommerset]

don't you worry, jack. your overlords will protect you.

More silly from our clown. Wake me up when your Gestapo finds something newsworthy on romney. God bless

[clambake]

More silly from our clown. Wake me up when your Gestapo finds something newsworthy on romney. God bless

don't worry, jack. they'll keep you safe and tell you about it.

[Th'Pusher]

Honestly, what on earth do you think is on his tax sheet? Write offs for hookers? It's silly. If he is breaking laws, the IRS will catch him. God bless

As has been noted, it is not about him breaking laws. Taxes and the size of government are are central issues in this debate.

[jack sommerset]

don't worry, jack. they'll keep you safe and tell you about it.

You said that already. I'm going to help you stop this repeating yourself pattern right now. I'm going to add time to your life right now. What you do with it is up to you. God bless

[Th'Pusher]

Good for him if he didnt pay as much taxes as the dems wanted him to. That's one of the differences with repugs and dems. One group wants everyone to pay more the other doesn't. Shocking news! God bless

Most Americans want the services of a big government but want to be taxed like a small they live under a small government. Shocking news! Can we just have a transparent discussion about what these services cost and how we expect to pay for them?

[clambake]

you became weak and brought up the gestapo. you let a mere mortal rock your faith in god.

god doesn't like wimpy christians, jack.

[jack sommerset]

Most Americans want the services of a big government but want to be taxed like a small they live under a small government. Shocking news! Can we just have a transparent discussion about what these services cost and how we expect to pay for them?

Most people want things fair.

No, not with the powers that be. Obama is a big reason why we can't. He is sneaky and corrupt just like the rest of them. That guy is not honest nor transparent. God bless

[Winehole23]

That guy is not honest nor transparent. How about Romney? Do you consider him to be honest and transparent?

[jack sommerset]

How about Romney? Do you consider him to be honest and transparent?

Hopefully he will be. We know Obama isn't. We r down to two. Time for some more hope and change. I choose that, so I choose Romney.

[clambake]

Hopefully he will be. We know Obama isn't. We r down to two. Time for some more hope and change. I choose that, so I choose Romney.

from palin to romney.

bravo!

[Winehole23]

Hopefully he will be. We know Obama isn't. We r down to two. Time for some more hope and change. I choose that, so I choose Romney.Romney is an embarrassing and rather obvious liar. His whole campaign consists of either concealing his views or making shit up. If you can't see that, your eyes aren't open.

[jack sommerset]

OBAMA is an embarrassing and rather obvious liar. His whole campaign consists of either concealing his views or making shit up. If you can't see that, your eyes aren't open.

I change your post a little. I hope you don't mind. We already know first hand, 4 years what the current guy brings to the table. Have faith, brother. Hope and change. God bless

[clambake]

you didn't like his statement, did you, jack?

[Winehole23]

He wears the partisan blinders. Obama being awful (which I agree with, btw) doesn't make Romney virtuous or desirable.

Hell, you could hardly pick a candidate from the GOP side who resembles Obama more, policywise.

[jack sommerset]

He wears the partisan blinders. Obama being awful (which I agree with, btw) doesn't make Romney virtuous or desirable.

Hell, you could hardly pick a candidate from the GOP side who resembles Obama more, policywise.

No I don't. That's a silly conclusion. Listen, I should say read, Im making this simple for you, again. Hopefully a little clearer. You agree Obama is awful. He has 4 years as president that made you and I come to this conclusion. There is no more candidates. Romney or Obama. I know the other guy was awful as president. I don't know if Romney will be awful. I'm hoping he won't be and our country needs a change. Feel free to make your decision complicated. It might be possible you are the one with blinders on. God bless

[Winehole23]

Nothing complicated about it. I'm voting for Gary Johnson.

[boutons_deux]

"You agree Obama is awful. He has 4 years as president that made you and I come to this conclusion. "

This is "awful" facts of Obama's 3 years.

1.
2.
3.
4.
...

[Winehole23]

indefinite detention, prior restraint on the internet, warrantless surveillance, due process free assassination of US citizens, drone attacks, unprecedented secrecy, flagrant corporatism . . . these are just a few

[TeyshaBlue]

Cue the "Bush did it first!" meme.:rolleyes

[ElNono]

Cue the "Bush did it first!" meme.:rolleyes

That would be a fact actually, for the most part. The continuation of such would also be the problem too...

[TeyshaBlue]

That would be a fact actually, for the most part. The continuation of such would also be the problem too...

As a fact, it stands. As a defense, it fails miserably.:lol

[ElNono]

As a fact, it stands. As a defense, it fails miserably.:lol

Go make me a sammich... :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

With the 3-Pickle combo™, sir?

[ElNono]

With the 3-Pickle combo™, sir?

yessir :wakeup

[MannyIsGod]

With the 3-Pickle combo™, sir?

Sounds kinda gay, TBH.

[TeyshaBlue]

Sounds kinda gay, TBH.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/tumblr_l9tm2xNN8o1qbdgk6o1_500.gif

[jack sommerset]

Nothing complicated about it. I'm voting for Gary Johnson.

If you live in a state like California or Texas I will agree with you. God bless

[Yonivore]

You make some valid points, though I disagree on whether he has nothing to gain and everything to lose. The avoidance issue looks shady to people, and if Romney released more, the majority of people wouldn't even bother to look at it and move on.
The flaw in that logic is that Mitt Romney gave a perfectly transparent explanation regarding his departure from Bain Capital. Anyone with any knowledge of the circumstances surrounding his departure agree with his explanation -- including Democrat Bain Capital employees -- two of whom are strong Obama supporters.

The Obama campaign and it's surrogates, because of a profound ignorance of business rules and the Securities and Exchange Commission, then suggested Romney committed a felony.

Can you imagine what such minds would do with 10 years worth of Romney's tax returns?

You're right, the average person wouldn't even bother to look. But, they'd be beat about the head and shoulders for weeks with whatever malevolence the Obama campaign is able to read into the tea leaves of Romney's filings.


The Obama campaign is going to run negative ads either way. If Romney did nothing wrong in his tax return (and I don't think he did) - then why wouldn't he want those things to be the center of negative ads against me? He can effectively control the meat of the attacks against him, thus creating greater flexibility in turning those attacks around to his advantage.
He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He's safer if he doesn't. It's obvious the Obama campaign doesn't understand or is going to be intentionally misleading about such things.

Hey! Have you heard of the shocking reports Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid may be a pederast (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/08/03/breaking-sen-harry-reid-delivers-chilling-response-to-accusations-that-he-is-a-pederast/)?

I think the burden falls to Senator Reid to disprove the allegation. After all the blogger received an anonymous phone call claiming Reid was a Pederast so, it meets the Democrat standards of truth.

[ChumpDumper]

lol safer

yoni is so defensive about this subject, it has to be a clear winner for Obama.

[clambake]

pj media lol

[Wild Cobra]

He made his decision not to. I think he would look weak if he did now. I also think that sooner or later, if not already, will start making Obama look bad for still focusing on the same minor issue. Especially if another bad economic report comes out.
I agree.

A president needs to stand on principle. He shouldn't have to turn over his "papers and effects" any more than anyone else without probable cause. The left, however, will insist that he relinquish his fourth amendment rights so other Americans may follow suit.

[Bartleby]

insist that he relinquish his fourth amendment rights

:lol

[ElNono]

:lmao

[scott]

The flaw in that logic is that Mitt Romney gave a perfectly transparent explanation regarding his departure from Bain Capital. Anyone with any knowledge of the circumstances surrounding his departure agree with his explanation -- including Democrat Bain Capital employees -- two of whom are strong Obama supporters.

The Obama campaign and it's surrogates, because of a profound ignorance of business rules and the Securities and Exchange Commission, then suggested Romney committed a felony.

Can you imagine what such minds would do with 10 years worth of Romney's tax returns?

You're right, the average person wouldn't even bother to look. But, they'd be beat about the head and shoulders for weeks with whatever malevolence the Obama campaign is able to read into the tea leaves of Romney's filings.


He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He's safer if he doesn't. It's obvious the Obama campaign doesn't understand or is going to be intentionally misleading about such things.

Hey! Have you heard of the shocking reports Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid may be a pederast (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/08/03/breaking-sen-harry-reid-delivers-chilling-response-to-accusations-that-he-is-a-pederast/)?

I think the burden falls to Senator Reid to disprove the allegation. After all the blogger received an anonymous phone call claiming Reid was a Pederast so, it meets the Democrat standards of truth.

Shocking you would come to this conclusion.

[Yonivore]

Shocking you would come to this conclusion.
Which conclusion? That Democrats would read Romney's tax returns like a horoscope, [because experience has shown] or, that Reid is a douchebag who needs to have heaped on him what he proposes for Mitt Romney [because, he is]?

[djohn2oo8]

It looks bad if he wont release them.

[Wild Cobra]

It looks bad if he wont release them.
Yes, it looks bad if you won't release all your tax forms to us in this forum.

Lead by example.

Let us see yours!

[Yonivore]

Yes, it looks bad if you won't release all your tax forms to us in this forum.

Lead by example.

Let us see yours!
He can't because, he didn't file his taxes. I know, I got an anonymous call.

[ElNono]

He's also not running for public office...

[Yonivore]

He's also not running for public office...
So? No one is asking any other candidate to release 10 years worth of tax returns.

Hey, have you heard the accusations of Harry Reid's pederasty (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=eese&gs_nf=1&tok=ONpcFTE8QX9TEERny6dCzg&cp=12&gs_id=1o&xhr=t&q=Harry+Reid+Pederast&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Harry+Reid+P&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4a9f891eb1c200d7&biw=1440&bih=785)? Or, that he's taking kickbacks and exploiting his position as a Senator to conduct insider trading in the markets? After all, how does a public servant, making less than $200K a year amass a $10 million dollar net worth while in office? I hear he's corrupt and in bed with the Nevada tribes. Up to him to disprove it.

[Wild Cobra]

He's also not running for public office...
Since when does running for office mean you must give away your constitutional rights?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Since when does running for office mean you must give away your constitutional rights?

He is not legally required to do anything. I see no subpoena. Constitutional right to what?

[ElNono]

So? No one is asking any other candidate to release 10 years worth of tax returns.

So what's the point in asking a poster here to release his tax returns?

Scrutiny over people running for public office is pretty common. After all, some people were demanding that another candidate release his birth certificate not long ago.


Since when does running for office mean you must give away your constitutional rights?

He's being asked to release them voluntarily. A violation of privacy would only happen if they were to be released without his authorization.

If you have problems understanding the distinction, let me know and I'll wrap it around :blah libtards! :blah and maybe you'll finally get it.

[Wild Cobra]

He's being asked to release them voluntarily. A violation of privacy would only happen if they were to be released without his authorization.

If you have problems understanding the distinction, let me know and I'll wrap it around :blah libtards! :blah and maybe you'll finally get it.
I do understand the distiction.

He was asked, he said no.

End of story.

However, now people like you are sending the message to Romney:

"Our need to dig for trash on you is more important than your fourth amendment rights."

Let it go.

[Yonivore]

So what's the point in asking a poster here to release his tax returns?
No sillier than accusing someone of a crime and then demanding they prove their innocence.


Scrutiny over people running for public office is pretty common. After all, some people were demanding that another candidate release his birth certificate not long ago.
And his college transcripts and his medical records and...

So, where are they?


He's being asked to release them voluntarily. A violation of privacy would only happen if they were to be released without his authorization.
And, he's said no. So, Harry Reid makes up a story about receiving an anonymous call that Romney hasn't even filed them in 10 years?


If you have problems understanding the distinction, let me know and I'll wrap it around :blah libtards! :blah and maybe you'll finally get it.
No, I get it.

[djohn2oo8]

So? No one is asking any other candidate to release 10 years worth of tax returns.

Hey, have you heard the accusations of Harry Reid's pederasty (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=eese&gs_nf=1&tok=ONpcFTE8QX9TEERny6dCzg&cp=12&gs_id=1o&xhr=t&q=Harry+Reid+Pederast&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=Harry+Reid+P&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=4a9f891eb1c200d7&biw=1440&bih=785)? Or, that he's taking kickbacks and exploiting his position as a Senator to conduct insider trading in the markets? After all, how does a public servant, making less than $200K a year amass a $10 million dollar net worth while in office? I hear he's corrupt and in bed with the Nevada tribes. Up to him to disprove it.

Obama released 12 years of tax returns. Try again.

[Yonivore]

Obama released 12 years of tax returns. Try again.
Well, good for him. No one asked him that I'm aware, did they?

[ElNono]

I do understand the distiction.
He was asked, he said no.
End of story.

Sure. When Barry said no to releasing his birth certificate, did the scrutiny stop?


However, now people like you are sending the message to Romney:
"Our need to dig for trash on you is more important than your fourth amendment rights."
Let it go.

Where did I send that message? Link? Quote? Wouldn't want to think you're talking out of your ass again...

[Yonivore]

Sure. When Barry said no to releasing his birth certificate, did the scrutiny stop?
Only one speaks to eligibility.

[Wild Cobra]

The difference is there was probable cause not to believe he is not a natural born citizen, and the constitution requires the president be a natural born citizen.

Where does the constitution require you have no errors in your taxes?

[djohn2oo8]

Well, good for him. No one asked him that I'm aware, did they?

Customary of both parties to do so for years.

[Wild Cobra]

Where did I send that message? Link? Quote? Wouldn't want to think you're talking out of your ass again...

That's the implied message.

For what other reason does one need to see his return, except to look for more trash?

[ElNono]

No sillier than accusing someone of a crime and then demanding they prove their innocence.

What are you talking about?


And his college transcripts and his medical records and...
So, where are they?

You can find his birth certificate online... haven't heard about the "college transcript movement" or the "medical records movement" yet...


And, he's said no. So, Harry Reid makes up a story about receiving an anonymous call that Romney hasn't even filed them in 10 years?

Well, that's on Reid. If that works you up, you should turn off your TV until November. There's going to be enough false negative bullshit thrown around from both sides from here until the election.

[Yonivore]

Customary of both parties to do so for years.
Not until very recently. There is no reason for Romney to do any more than is required under the election laws.

[Yonivore]

What are you talking about?
Harry Reid.


You can find his birth certificate online... haven't heard about the "college transcript movement" or the "medical records movement" yet...
It came and went in the '08 election. I know you didn't hear about it, the media ignored it.


Well, that's on Reid. If that works you up, you should turn off your TV until November. There's going to be enough false negative bullshit thrown around from both sides from here until the election.
It's on Reid and anyone else that buys into the nonsense Reid is fomenting -- including those in this forum. No one is forcing you to stay in the conversation.

[ElNono]

Only one speaks to eligibility.

And the other speaks about honesty.

I agree with scott... the cloud of doubt isn't going away. I personally couldn't care less about Romney's tax returns.

[ElNono]

That's the implied message.

For what other reason does one need to see his return, except to look for more trash?

So I never sent that message. Okay.

I'm not asking for anything from Romney. But we wouldn't be talking about this at all if this thing didn't stuck to him.

[Yonivore]

And the other speaks about honesty.
And, there's no reason to believe Romney is being dishonest about his tax returns.


I agree with scott... the cloud of doubt isn't going away. I personally couldn't care less about Romney's tax returns.
I disagree, this will pass like every other smear Obama's campaign has thrown at Romney because, ultimately, it comes back to how poorly Obama is performing.

[ElNono]

Harry Reid.

Did he sue Romney? Link?


It came and went in the '08 election. I know you didn't hear about it, the media ignored it.

Well, we aren't in 2008 anymore, and frankly the whole birther crap went way past 2008.


It's on Reid and anyone else that buys into the nonsense Reid is fomenting -- including those in this forum. No one is forcing you to stay in the conversation.

I don't buy what Reid is saying (neither is scott for that matter). That doesn't mean that it isn't a subject people inside or outside this forum isn't considering.

We're just talking here.

[ElNono]

And, there's no reason to believe Romney is being dishonest about his tax returns.

I agree, but you only talk for yourself.


I disagree, this will pass like every other smear Obama's campaign has thrown at Romney because, ultimately, it comes back to how poorly Obama is performing.

I disagree. But time will tell.

[Yonivore]

Did he sue Romney? Link?
You obviously haven't been following the news.

Harry Reid Accuses Mitt Romney Of Not Paying Taxes (http://www.lonerepublic.com/harry-reid-accuses-mitt-romney-of-not-paying-taxes/)

He won't reveal the source of his information and is demanding Romney disprove the allegation.


Well, we aren't in 2008 anymore, and frankly the whole birther crap went way past 2008.
Are you interested in why Barack Obama is so intent on keeping his college transcripts secret? Why, as President of the Harvard Law Review, he was the first to have never published a review?


I don't buy what Reid is saying (neither is scott for that matter). That doesn't mean that it isn't a subject people inside or outside this forum isn't considering.

We're just talking here.
Okay then.

[ElNono]

You obviously haven't been following the news.

Harry Reid Accuses Mitt Romney Of Not Paying Taxes (http://www.lonerepublic.com/harry-reid-accuses-mitt-romney-of-not-paying-taxes/)

He won't reveal the source of his information and is demanding Romney disprove the allegation.

So Romney can just say Reid is wrong. Where's the demand of proving his innocence? Reid apparently can't even prove there was criminal activity.


Are you interested in why Barack Obama is so intent on keeping his college transcripts secret? Why, as President of the Harvard Law Review, he was the first to have never published a review?

Probably as interested as I am in Romney's tax returns. None basically.

[Wild Cobra]

You obviously haven't been following the news.

Harry Reid Accuses Mitt Romney Of Not Paying Taxes (http://www.lonerepublic.com/harry-reid-accuses-mitt-romney-of-not-paying-taxes/)

He won't reveal the source of his information and is demanding Romney disprove the allegation.

Typical authoritarian Demonrat.

Guilty until proven innocent.

[boutons_deux]

The Tax Trap Springs Shut on Romney

Republican policy elites and fund-raisers fervently believe, for both moral and economic reasons, in the paramount necessity of cutting taxes for the rich. This position is, however, a political trap; the vast majority of Americans want taxes on the rich to be higher, not lower, and the commitment to cutting taxes on the rich further requires larger entitlement cuts or higher middle class taxes, both of which are more unpopular still.

At the outset of his campaign, Romney tried to avoid committing himself, but by February, with GOP rivals outflanking him and facing steady pressure from Republican elites, he declared himself in favor of a 20 percent tax cut, a move greeted with joy from anti-tax activists. But he still attempted to hide the ball. Romney promised that his rate cut would be matched by closing tax deductions and some unspecified allowance for economic growth, and thus would not decrease the level (or the share) of taxes paid by the rich. Romney’s boast that his plan could not be scored revealed the essential calculation. But the campaign miscalculated. Yesterday’s study by the Brookings Institution and the Tax Policy Center showed that, even allowing for the faster growth predicted by Romney’s own economist, there aren’t enough tax deductions to account for the cost of the lower rates for the rich — raising taxes for the middle class would be the only way to make Romney’s promises add up. Romney didn’t hide the ball well enough.

Obama has already unleashed an ad making the simple and devastating point that Romney is proposing to cut taxes of people like himself and raise them on the vast majority of the public:



Romney’s play here is to turn the study’s findings into a matter of partisan dispute. It has mustered two arguments. The first is that the Brookings study cannot be trusted because its authors are biased. (Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom called the study a “joke.”) The Weekly Standard pushes this line, noting that one of its authors visited the White House twelve times. Unfortunately, Romney’s campaign itself once cited the Tax Policy Center (accurately) as “objective,” and its findings are basically simple math.

Romney’s second argument is more convoluted. The study examined the effects of Romney’s income tax proposals. He has also promised to reform the corporate tax code. Romney policy advisor Lanhee Chen argued yesterday that Romney corporate tax reforms could increase economic growth even more. So, even though the study allowed for optimistic growth assumptions of the income tax cuts, it didn’t also allow for optimistic assumptions of the corporate tax cuts.

Of course, Romney doesn’t really have a corporate tax reform plan. He says basically the same thing everybody says. The corporate tax code is filled with deductions and loopholes. The statutory rate (35 percent) is unusually high by international standards, but the effective rate is unusually low. We could lower the rate to, say, 28 percent, close a bunch of deductions and loopholes, and have a fairer tax code. That’s what Romney endorses, and it’s also what Obama endorses.


Romney isn’t offering a policy blueprint for what deductions he would take away, let alone a plausible scenario to pass such a plan even if it did exist. He’s just using the mystical economic pixie dust of the nonexistent corporate tax reform plan in order to hold out the hope of some missing ingredient, some unmeasurable X factor, to keep his proposal in the safe dreamworld where the cruel tyranny of math cannot apply.

But the math is inescapable. When Romney looks back at the positions he adopted during the Republican primary — the hard line on immigration, the embrace of Paul Ryan — his pander to supply-siders may loom as his largest mistake.


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/08/tax-trap-springs-shut-on-romney.html

[boutons_deux]

Top GOP Strategist Pushes Romney To Release More Tax Returns: ‘Two Years Is Not Enough, Obviously’


Longtime Republican strategist Ed Rollins today joined 20 other Republicans by saying Mitt Romney should “absolutely” release more years of tax returns. Despite increasing pressure from both Democrats and Republicans, and 61 percent of voters who want to see more taxes, Romney has refused to release more than two years.

This makes 21 prominent Republicans who agree Romney should follow precedent and release more years of tax returns, including George Will, Bill Kristol, Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley, Gov. Rick Perry, and the National Review editorial board.

Instead of releasing more documents, which would reveal more information on how much Romney has benefitted from tax loopholes and offshore havens, Romney told reporters this week, “I have paid taxes every year. A lot of taxes.”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/08/05/640781/top-gop-strategist-pushes-romney-to-release-more-tax-returns-two-years-is-not-enough-obviously/

Repugs know their "man" is a DEADbeat. Dead if he withholds, DEAD if DISCLOSEs.

[The Reckoning]

lol rick perry

"my tax return can fit on a notecard"

[Clipper Nation]

Typical authoritarian Demonrat.

Guilty until proven innocent.

Typical career politician...... tax hikes for Willard's constituents, no taxes paid by Willard himself......

[Wild Cobra]

The deadbeats are the poor losers who have nothing better to do than dig in other people's trash for dirt.

[boutons_deux]

Typical authoritarian Demonrat.

Guilty until proven innocent.

Gecko is guilty until he proves himself innocent.

[ChumpDumper]

The deadbeats are the poor losers who have nothing better to do than dig in other people's trash for dirt.lol birther

[CosmicCowboy]

Do y'all honestly think that Romney has cheated on his taxes? Do you honestly believe that the Obama administration wouldn't have audited his ass if that was the case? They HAVE the tax returns. If they thought there was anything there they damn sure would have used it by now.

[Yonivore]

Do y'all honestly think that Romney has cheated on his taxes? Do you honestly believe that the Obama administration wouldn't have audited his ass if that was the case? They HAVE the tax returns. If they thought there was anything there they damn sure would have used it by now.
It's not that Romney is being accused of cheating. Reid says he's not paid any taxes for the past ten years.

The White House threw him under this bus this morning.

WH Distances Itself From Reid; Carney Says He "Speaks For Himself" (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/08/06/wh_distances_itself_from_harry_reid_carney_says_he _speaks_for_himself.html)

Another "Romney-is-an-evil-dick" balloon, floated by the Left, crashes and burns along side Seamus, Bain Capital, Outsourcing, Dressage, Lazy Wife, Mormonism, and Evil Capitalist.

Nice going Democrats.

[boutons_deux]

"Romney has cheated on his taxes"

if he hasn't cheated to IRS, he has cheated to Mormon cult.

I figure has evaded taxes. THat's why 1%ers and other criminals bank offshore.

If he's 100% legit, what does he have to hide?

As the article I posted pointed out with 10 explanantions, he may been one of the 50K Americans with secret bank accounts who were offered amnesty. Even he's now amnestied and "IRS-legal", it would be fatal if he did evade and get amnestied.

[ChumpDumper]

Do y'all honestly think that Romney has cheated on his taxes? Do you honestly believe that the Obama administration wouldn't have audited his ass if that was the case? They HAVE the tax returns. If they thought there was anything there they damn sure would have used it by now.How could anyone in government anonymously leak detailed tax returns?

I don't think he cheated. I do think there is probably pretty embarrassing information there concerning things like his effective tax rate and the amount of money he made off a company with which he claimed no involvement.

If Romney ain't scurred, he'll release the documents. Maybe he's just timing the release if there's nothing bad about them -- but as it is now, he looks like he's hiding something and that's all that the other team needs.

[CosmicCowboy]

How could anyone in government anonymously leak detailed tax returns?

I don't think he cheated. I do think there is probably pretty embarrassing information there concerning things like his effective tax rate and the amount of money he made off a company with which he claimed no involvement.

If Romney ain't scurred, he'll release the documents. Maybe he's just timing the release if there's nothing bad about them -- but as it is now, he looks like he's hiding something and that's all that the other team needs.

I didn't say they could leak them to the press.

I said that the Treasury Department HAS Romney's tax returns.

If there was anything illegal going on you can be damn sure Romney would be in the middle of a nasty audit right now.

There is nothing illegal about paying as little tax as you can under current tax law.

In fact, I consider it almost a moral obligation not to overpay my taxes while staying within the law.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't say they could leak them to the press.

I said that the Treasury Department HAS Romney's tax returns.

If there was anything illegal going on you can be damn sure Romney would be in the middle of a nasty audit right now.

There is nothing illegal about paying as little tax as you can under current tax law.

In fact, I consider it almost a moral obligation not to overpay my taxes while staying within the law.There is plenty that is politically embarrassing about paying a lower tax rate that most middle class Americans while saying they should be cut further.

In fact, I consider it the kind of thing Romney would not be able to overcome in, say, a debate.

[Yonivore]

There is plenty that is politically embarrassing about paying a lower tax rate that most middle class Americans while saying they should be cut further.

In fact, I consider it the kind of thing Romney would not be able to overcome in, say, a debate.
It is the height of stupidity to voluntarily give money to a wasteful, corrupt, and fraud-ridden federal government. Period.

If you don't avail yourself of every tax benefit, allowed by law, you are a fucking idiot.

Name one Democrat that is voluntarily not taking tax breaks. Hell, Barack Obama complains that he pays less tax than he should when there is absolutely nothing stopping him from contributing 100% of his income to the federal treasury.

Not only that, Mitt Romney has never been in Congress or the Executive Branch and, as such, has had absolutely zero say over the current tax law.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is a lot to be said for not raising taxes on anyone during a recession as well.

[Yonivore]

There is a lot to be said for not raising taxes on anyone during a recession as well.
And, Barack Obama has said that, more than once, during his presidency.

[CosmicCowboy]

Obama is bending the truth beyond credibility claiming Republicans "want to cut taxes on the rich" instead of just being honest and saying the Republican want tax rates to remain the same while HE wants to RAISE taxes on the "rich".

[ChumpDumper]

It is the height of stupidity to voluntarily give money to a wasteful, corrupt, and fraud-ridden federal government. Period.

If you don't avail yourself of every tax benefit, allowed by law, you are a fucking idiot.

Name one Democrat that is voluntarily not taking tax breaks. Hell, Barack Obama complains that he pays less tax than he should when there is absolutely nothing stopping him from contributing 100% of his income to the federal treasury.

Not only that, Mitt Romney has never been in Congress or the Executive Branch and, as such, has had absolutely zero say over the current tax law.If you applaud Romney for paying a lower tax rate than you do, you're a fucking idiot.

But a useful idiot for Romney.


There is a lot to be said for not raising taxes on anyone during a recession as well.Define recession.

[TeyshaBlue]

Define recession.

I think the classical definition of recession is now a bit more plastic than it once was.

Perception/Reality and all that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/americans-recession_n_1414984.html

[ChumpDumper]

Obama is bending the truth beyond credibility claiming Republicans "want to cut taxes on the rich" instead of just being honest and saying the Republican want tax rates to remain the same while HE wants to RAISE taxes on the "rich".All the Democrats have to do (and are doing) is point to the Tax Policy Center's report that says Romney's plan would cut taxes for the rich while raising taxes on the middle class through the closing of loopholes and ending of exemptions.

Unless Romney gets ultra specific about what he's going to do, which he won't and no one will notice anyway, this will continue.

[Yonivore]

Democrats! These are your leaders... :lmao

Nancy Pelosi: 'It Is A Fact' That Somebody Told Harry Reid About Romney Not Paying Taxes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/nancy-pelosi-harry-reid-romney-taxes_n_1746894.html?1344263071)


"Harry Reid made a statement that is true. Somebody told him. It is a fact," Pelosi told The Huffington Post in a Sunday interview. "Whether he did or not can easily be disposed of: Mitt Romney can release his tax returns and show whether he paid taxes."
Has it occurred to anyone that if Mitt Romney hadn't paid his taxes for 10 years, he'd already have been facing criminal charges? Just ask Wesley Snipes.

Going for the Gold medal of lies; 10 years, no taxes! :lmao

God, how do Democrats keep sending people like this, Sheila Jackson-Lee , and Hank Johnson back to Congress? Isn't it embarrassing?

[ChumpDumper]

Republicans are also embarrassed -- for Romney.

"Politically, I think that would help him," Ron Paul said in a interview with Politico. "In the scheme of things politically, you know, it looks like releasing tax returns is what the people want."

"I have no idea on why he has restricted the number to this point," Richard Lugar said.

"I don't know why... he didn't get all of this out and tidy up some of his offshore accounts and all the rest," George Will said on ABC's "This Week." "He's done nothing illegal, nothing unseemly, nothing improper, but lots that's impolitic."

"He should release the tax returns tomorrow. It's crazy," Bill Kristol said on "Fox News Sunday." "You gotta release six, eight, 10 years of back tax returns. Take the hit for a day or two."

"I just believe in total transparency," Robert Bentley told ABC News. "In fact, I was asked today that question -- do you think that Governor Romney should release his tax returns? And I said I do. I said, I release my tax returns. I may be the only public official in Alabama that does, but I release mine every year and I just believe that people should release their tax returns. And if you get them out and just get past that, it just makes it so much easier."

When asked on "The Situation Room" if Romney should release more returns, Haley Barbour said, "I would. But should it be an issue in the campaign? I don't think it amounts to diddly."

"If there's nothing there, there's no 'there' there, don't create a there,'" Michael Steele said on MSNBC.

"Tax returns the next problem. Releasing returns under pressure: more weakness, more pain," David Frum tweeted.


Thanks for the link, yoni. [emoticon]

[Yonivore]

Republicans are also embarrassed -- for Romney.

"Politically, I think that would help him," Ron Paul said in a interview with Politico. "In the scheme of things politically, you know, it looks like releasing tax returns is what the people want."

"I have no idea on why he has restricted the number to this point," Richard Lugar said.

"I don't know why... he didn't get all of this out and tidy up some of his offshore accounts and all the rest," George Will said on ABC's "This Week." "He's done nothing illegal, nothing unseemly, nothing improper, but lots that's impolitic."

"He should release the tax returns tomorrow. It's crazy," Bill Kristol said on "Fox News Sunday." "You gotta release six, eight, 10 years of back tax returns. Take the hit for a day or two."

"I just believe in total transparency," Robert Bentley told ABC News. "In fact, I was asked today that question -- do you think that Governor Romney should release his tax returns? And I said I do. I said, I release my tax returns. I may be the only public official in Alabama that does, but I release mine every year and I just believe that people should release their tax returns. And if you get them out and just get past that, it just makes it so much easier."

When asked on "The Situation Room" if Romney should release more returns, Haley Barbour said, "I would. But should it be an issue in the campaign? I don't think it amounts to diddly."

"If there's nothing there, there's no 'there' there, don't create a there,'" Michael Steele said on MSNBC.

"Tax returns the next problem. Releasing returns under pressure: more weakness, more pain," David Frum tweeted.


Thanks for the link, yoni. [emoticon]
With the helpful belligerence of Harry Reid, I think this all goes away. And, I (as does, apparently, the Romney campaign) simply disagree with everyone quoted above.

I don't know why the Romney Campaign isn't releasing his tax returns but, I have an idea.

Mitt Romney was completely transparent about his departure from Bain Capital in 1999. Everyone with any knowledge of his tenure at, and departure from, Bain Capital completely agree with his characterization that he walked away, to go work on the Salt Lake City Olympics, and didn't look back. This included current partners of Bain Capital that, coincidentally, happen to be Democrats and, not only that, supporters of Barack Obama.

Did that stop Democrats from looking at some SEC document, like a Rorshach Inkblot Test, and seeing a felony? No, it didn't.

I have no doubt ten years worth of Romney's tax returns contain a lot of detail about his finances that those same Democrats would have just as much difficulty understanding and over which those same Democrats would be able to divine some horrible crime that doesn't exist.

It's that simple.

Now that Harry Reid has screwed the narrative pooch and gone a bit overboard -- driving a wedge between his lie and the White House, quite possibly, we can get past the latest idiotic attack on Mitt Romney's character.

[clambake]

define mitt romney's character.

[ChumpDumper]

Words.What did he lie about? Reid said some dude told him something.

And your average voter doesn't know who Reid is, much less care what he says about Romney.

Romney can get past this by releasing his returns. Not passively hoping that someone says something to distract from it. What a pussy approach you are wishing for.

[Yonivore]

What did he lie about? Reid said some dude told him something.
Some dude told me you fuck dogs. Am I lying?


And your average voter doesn't know who Reid is, much less care what he says about Romney.
The average voters you're talking about don't know who Romney is either -- or Pelosi. They only Obama because he's a rock star. Those average voters aren't going to make much of a difference this election.

The Democrats are panicking.


Romney can get past this by releasing his returns. Not passively hoping that someone says something to distract from it. What a pussy approach you are wishing for.
I think he'll get past this the same way he got past the claim he was a felon because his name appeared on an SEC document after 1999. He'll ignore it and Democrats will run out of wind.

[ChumpDumper]

Some dude told me you fuck dogs. Am I lying?Are you lying about some dude's telling you that?

I don't know. Dudes can say whatever they want.

Asking me to prove I don't fuck dogs is asking me to prove a negative and fallacious. Asking Romney to prove he paid taxes is asking him to prove a positive and easily done with a scanner (layers!) and an email account.


The average voters you're talking about don't know who Romney is either -- or Pelosi. They only Obama because he's a rock star. Those average voters aren't going to make much of a difference this election.

The Democrats are panicking.You're panicking. The more you panic the more you post.



I think he'll get past this the same way he got past the claim he was a felon because his name appeared on an SEC document after 1999. He'll ignore it and Democrats will run out of wind.Nah, all the Democrats have to keep saying it "What is he hiding?" Folks can take it from there.

[boutons_deux]

"He'll ignore it"

:lol that doesn't solve HIS problem

"what is he hiding?" is so simple that even you dumbfuck tea baggers can see Gecko has created a huge problem for himself.

[Yonivore]

Are you lying about some dude's telling you that?

I don't know. Dudes can say whatever they want.
Exactly so, why respond? I've already given the reason why Romney shouldn't.


Asking me to prove I don't fuck dogs is asking me to prove a negative and fallacious. Asking Romney to prove he paid taxes is asking him to prove a positive and easily done with a scanner (layers!) and an email account.
The fact there are no federal criminal cases against Mitt Romney for tax evasion is proof he didn't go 10 years without paying taxes.

You do know bestiality is a crime, right?


You're panicking. The more you panic the more you post.
Yeah, whatever gets you through this.

Obama's popularity is falling.

Democrats have dropped a day from their Convention because of funding woes.

Now, they're concerned Obama won't be able to fill the seats for his acceptance speech.

Quite a difference from 2008.

By the way, when's he going to start talking about his agenda to recover our economy? Anyone remember Axelrod calling this the Recovery Summer?


Nah, all the Democrats have to keep saying it "What is he hiding?" Folks can take it from there.
Because that's worked for them so well...

Romney put a dog on the roof of his car back in the 50's or whatever...

Ann Romney has never worked a day in his life...

Mitt Romney is a felon because he signed some SEC document after 1999...

And now, Mitt Romney hasn't paid his taxes for 10 years...

Well, we know he's paid them for the past two years and that there is absolutely no reason to believe he hasn't paid them in the past. I suggest Harry Reid turn over his evidence to the IRS and let them investigate.

And, the 8.254% unemployed who are paying twice as much for gasoline than they did when Obama took office aren't going to care.

They want to hear what Obama is going to do about the mess they're in...not whether or not Romney should release his tax returns.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

(layers!)
:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I actually do agree with Yoni that as long as it was legal, Romney paying a low tax rate by utilizing whatever breaks within our tax code isn't something that should be used against him. People are going to pay the least amount in taxes as they can, it'd be incredibly stupid to pay more in taxes than you're legally obligated to.

What should be used against Romney is his belief that a tax plan which continues to allow people with his wealth to pay such a small amount is good for America and will create jobs. There's no proof whatsoever that lower taxes for the wealthiest lead to job creation. It's the same trickle down myth that landed the country in a recession to begin with.

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly so, why respond? I've already given the reason why Romney shouldn't.Having a reason doesn't make it a good reason.



The fact there are no federal criminal cases against Mitt Romney for tax evasion is proof he didn't go 10 years without paying taxes.As I said, he can prove his payments with a wave of a scanner. That would be a home run.


You do know bestiality is a crime, right?Why are you so interested in it?


Yeah, whatever gets you through this.Back atcha.


Obama's popularity is falling.You never say anything when it rises.


Democrats have dropped a day from their Convention because of funding woes.:cry


Now, they're concerned Obama won't be able to fill the seats for his acceptance speech.

Quite a difference from 2008.Man, I'm glad I don't read all the blogs you do.

Or think about fucking dogs as much as you do, for that matter.


By the way, when's he going to start talking about his agenda to recover our economy? Anyone remember Axelrod calling this the Recovery Summer?Your blogs do.



(Whiny rant.)Sorry, you're a hypocrite for posting all your innuendo about Obama's documents or lack thereof for five years. You don't get off the hook for this.

Or for your dog fucking fascination.

[ChumpDumper]

I actually do agree with Yoni that as long as it was legal, Romney paying a low tax rate by utilizing whatever breaks within our tax code isn't something that should be used against him. People are going to pay the least amount in taxes as they can, it'd be incredibly stupid to pay more in taxes than you're legally obligated to.

What should be used against Romney is his belief that a tax plan which continues to allow people with his wealth to pay such a small amount is good for America and will create jobs. There's no proof whatsoever that lower taxes for the wealthiest lead to job creation. It's the same trickle down myth that landed the country in a recession to begin with.No one is saying he shouldn't have taken the breaks he was given. That's a straw man yoni and CC are trying to battle.

But yeah, he'd probably be embarrassed by the actual rate he pays coupled with the demand that people like him should pay even less. I can see why he and yoni are so terrified.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

No one is saying he shouldn't have taken the breaks he was given. That's a straw man yoni and CC are trying to battle.
:lol figures

If I'm not feeling lazy later I'll dig up the thread re: Warren Buffet's article about taxes being too low. I seem to recall plenty of Republicans on this site saying, "If Buffett thinks people with his wealth should pay more in taxes then he should voluntarily pay more!"

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not a straw man. It's simply fact. He filled out his tax return, followed the law, and sent the IRS a check.

Where is the boogey man?

General Electric didn't pay any taxes this year.

Where is your outrage there? Oh yeah. Imelt is in Obama's back pocket. Silly me. Thats OK with Chump.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not a straw man. It's simply fact. He filled out his tax return, followed the law, and sent the IRS a check.You've been too busy building and fighting the straw man and missed a possibility there.


General Electric didn't pay any taxes this year.:lol You don't miss it for others.


Where is your outrage there? Oh yeah. Imelt is in Obama's back pocket. Silly me. Thats OK with Chump.Hey, another straw man.

[boutons_deux]

With the helpful belligerence of Harry Reid

you're a classic bully, just HATE it when your opponents push back shit in your fade.

[Capt Bringdown]

Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-06/romney-persona-non-grata-in-italy-for-bain-s-deal-skirting-taxes.html)

Mitt Romney skipped Italy on his swing through Europe. That was probably prudent.

That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.

Bain’s purchase and quick resale of the yellow pages business is “an example of Italian capitalism, whereby those with little capital are able to cheat the system and enrich themselves,” Lannutti said. “It’s a mistake Italians hope won’t be repeated again now.”

Romney’s extensive investments in tax havens are drawing intensifying media scrutiny at the same time that revenue- starved governments around the world are cracking down on such practices.

In recent weeks, Romney has faced increasing pressure to release additional years of tax returns because of questions over his 13.9 percent personal tax rate, his Swiss bank account, an IRA valued at as much as $102 million and his investments in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.
-- more --> (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-06/romney-persona-non-grata-in-italy-for-bain-s-deal-skirting-taxes.html)


Predatory capitalism writ large

[Yonivore]

Predatory capitalism writ large


That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.
Pretty fucking shrewd, if you ask me.

[ElNono]

Sounds corrupt as hell, if you ask me.

[Capt Bringdown]

Sounds corrupt as hell, if you ask me.

Indeed:

Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg News. The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a total market value less than what it paid Bain and other investors for the directory business.

In Italy, the deals have spurred at least three books, separate legal and regulatory probes and newspaper columns alleging investors made a fortune at the expense of Italian taxpayers.

LOL job creators

[Yonivore]

Sounds corrupt as hell, if you ask me.
I'm sure Italian officials are busy with the indictments...no, wait, it seems they're just butt hurt.

[ElNono]

I'm sure Italian officials are busy with the indictments...no, wait, it seems they're just butt hurt.

It's not the italian officials that are butthurt, it's the italian people, that see how a corrupt politician or two are bribed to dump a government company built with their tax dollars for peanuts to some predatory fund only for such fund to turn around and sell it for what it was really worth (which normally is many, many times of what they paid for).

I'm not pinning it on Romney or Bain, because unfortunately if you've ever lived in a country with rampant corruption (like Italy), stuff like this happens all the time. It's just another con job under the guise of "privatization".

[ChumpDumper]

lol goodwill tour to Italy to follow

[Wild Cobra]

Gecko is guilty until he proves himself innocent.

At least you have the balls to admit you think that way.

Thank-You.

Few other liberals will admit that. They will find some excuse.

[Wild Cobra]

"Romney has cheated on his taxes"

if he hasn't cheated to IRS, he has cheated to Mormon cult.

I figure has evaded taxes. THat's why 1%ers and other criminals bank offshore.

If he's 100% legit, what does he have to hide?

As the article I posted pointed out with 10 explanantions, he may been one of the 50K Americans with secret bank accounts who were offered amnesty. Even he's now amnestied and "IRS-legal", it would be fatal if he did evade and get amnestied.

Yes, I believe if anything is wrong, he didn't tithe his 10%. I believe one of the years he released was a little short of 10%, and maybe the others are even less!

Still...

Anyone firmly saying he needs to release personal information that is protected under the fourth amendment need to suck that donkey dick.

[ChumpDumper]

lol fourth amendment

No one is demanding a governmental search or seizure.

[Wild Cobra]

lol fourth amendment
Maybe you should look at what it says.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe you should.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[Winehole23]

#suckthatdonkeydick

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Indeed:


LOL job creators

the trickle down thing has been the GOP strategy since 1980. Throughout the 80s the called it supply side and trickle down economics.

Its been an economic failure the entire time and all it has done is entrench elites and widen the rich poor gap. we have all seen the income distribution comparisons to third world countries.

Now they do not call it a particular economic strategy, they just demonize it in terms like hurting 'job creators' and general taxation.

its still the same fucking thing but the american electorate and specifically GOP sycophants eat it up once again.

I just really wish that there was a party that would cater to economically liberal conservative christians. The GOP appealing to social conservatives is a big reason why the corporate elite is able to maintain their hegemony on power.

[boutons_deux]

Reid ain't backing down, he's doubling down.

Not really characteristic for him. It looks like he's very certain that his info about Gecko's hidden tax returns is solid.

[Yonivore]

I think Romney should release as many years of his tax returns as Obama releases of his years at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.

There's a classmate of Obama's -- and he isn't speaking in a hushed voice to Harry Reid, over the phone, that's been saying there's no proof Barack "Choom Gang" Obama ever stepped foot on Columbia's campus.

Obama can clear this up by just releasing the records.

[scott]

Democrats! These are your leaders... :lmao

Nancy Pelosi: 'It Is A Fact' That Somebody Told Harry Reid About Romney Not Paying Taxes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/nancy-pelosi-harry-reid-romney-taxes_n_1746894.html?1344263071)


Has it occurred to anyone that if Mitt Romney hadn't paid his taxes for 10 years, he'd already have been facing criminal charges? Just ask Wesley Snipes.

Going for the Gold medal of lies; 10 years, no taxes! :lmao

God, how do Democrats keep sending people like this, Sheila Jackson-Lee , and Hank Johnson back to Congress? Isn't it embarrassing?

Are you so stupid that you can't even remember context contained with in the same thread?

Avoiding taxes != Evading taxes

[scott]

I think Romney should release as many years of his tax returns as Obama releases of his years at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.

There's a classmate of Obama's -- and he isn't speaking in a hushed voice to Harry Reid, over the phone, that's been saying there's no proof Barack "Choom Gang" Obama ever stepped foot on Columbia's campus.

Obama can clear this up by just releasing the records.

Is there a major policy debate about how certain classes of people in America should have their college grades counted differently than other classes, and that our "Grade Code" be structure in a way that benefits certain classes more in the hope that better grades eventually trickle down for everyone else?

[Yonivore]

Is there a major policy debate about how certain classes of people in America should have their college grades counted differently than other classes, and that our "Grade Code" be structure in a way that benefits certain classes more in the hope that better grades eventually trickle down for everyone else?
No. That was had and lost in the 80's. Certain classes of people's grades do count differently.

Actually, this guy alleges a crime...just like Harry Reid. It can all be cleared up if the President will release his college transcripts and enrollment forms.

[Yonivore]

Are you so stupid that you can't even remember context contained with in the same thread?

Avoiding taxes != Evading taxes
What's the matter? Wake up with some skank, again?

Are you so stupid as to think avoiding and evading are the same thing? Or, is the exclamation point some clue?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Reid ain't backing down, he's doubling down.

Not really characteristic for him. It looks like he's very certain that his info about Gecko's hidden tax returns is solid.
Yeah boutons actually makes a valid point.

Reid is a pussy who's gotten bent over by the minority in the senate for years, the fact he's taking such a strong stance here is telling.

[scott]

No. That was had and lost in the 80's. Certain classes of people's grades do count differently.

So what relevance does Obama's transcripts have to any policy debate going on in the US today?


Actually, this guy alleges a crime...just like Harry Reid. It can all be cleared up if the President will release his college transcripts and enrollment forms.

Who alleged Romney of a crime? Are you suggesting that not paying taxes is a crime?

[scott]

What's the matter? Wake up with some skank, again?

Are you so stupid as to think avoiding and evading are the same thing? Or, is the exclamation point some clue?

What's the matter, are you still a moron?

!= is shorthand for "not equal". It's mathematical notation that middle school students know.

So am I so stupid as to think you had knowledge equivalent to a middle schooler? Yes, I was. Won't make that same mistake again.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[Yonivore]

So what relevance does Obama's transcripts have to any policy debate going on in the US today?
And, what do Romney's tax returns, beyond the two he's already turned over lend to any policy debate going on in the US today?


Who alleged Romney of a crime? Are you suggesting that not paying taxes is a crime?
It's ludicrous to suggest that Romney, knowing what we know about his wealth, could legally avoid paying taxes for 10 years. So, yes, I would say Reid's statement alleges a crime.

[Yonivore]

What's the matter, are you still a moron?

!= is shorthand for "not equal". It's mathematical notation that middle school students know.

So am I so stupid as to think you had knowledge equivalent to a middle schooler? Yes, I was. Won't make that same mistake again.
You remember everything from middle school, even those things you don't apply on a regular basis? It's the first time I recall ever seeing the notation.

[scott]

And, what do Romney's tax returns, beyond the two he's already turned over lend to any policy debate going on in the US today?

Been gone over, ad nauseam. You're too dumb too understand, so we've moved on.



It's ludicrous to suggest that Romney, knowing what we know about his wealth, could legally avoid paying taxes for 10 years. So, yes, I would say Reid's statement alleges a crime.

No, it's not ludicrous. Yes, you are an idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

What's the matter, are you still a moron?

!= is shorthand for "not equal". It's mathematical notation that middle school students know.

So am I so stupid as to think you had knowledge equivalent to a middle schooler? Yes, I was. Won't make that same mistake again.

I confess to being ignorant of that shorthand notation as well. When I went to school we used ≠ to mean "not equal".

[scott]

I confess to being ignorant of that shorthand notation as well. When I went to school we used ≠ to mean "not equal".

That's still the preferred written form, though most keyboards don't have that button.

So I take it back, Yonivore isn't stupid (for this reason).

[CosmicCowboy]

That's still the preferred written form, though most keyboards don't have that button.

So I take it back, Yonivore isn't stupid (for this reason).

LOL, we didn't have keyboards when I went to school (except when we had to type our freaking double spaced term papers on a freaking typewriter) but you can still find the ≠ in the symbols section of word.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Romney should release as many years of his tax returns as Obama releases of his years at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.

There's a classmate of Obama's -- and he isn't speaking in a hushed voice to Harry Reid, over the phone, that's been saying there's no proof Barack "Choom Gang" Obama ever stepped foot on Columbia's campus.

Obama can clear this up by just releasing the records.Hey, genius -- How could he have been a classmate of Obama's if Obama was never at Columbia?

You're just making shit up again.

[djohn2oo8]

Hey, genius -- How could he have been a classmate of Obama's if Obama was never at Columbia?

You're just making shit up again.
:lol

[mercos]

I think Romney should release as many years of his tax returns as Obama releases of his years at Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard.

There's a classmate of Obama's -- and he isn't speaking in a hushed voice to Harry Reid, over the phone, that's been saying there's no proof Barack "Choom Gang" Obama ever stepped foot on Columbia's campus.

Obama can clear this up by just releasing the records.

I think Romney should release as many years of his tax returns as Obama did. A one to one comparison, not an unconnected comparison to a different set of records. It is tradition for a candidate to do so. One that fails to do so will receive warranted criticism and suspicion.

It is only fitting that Romney is taking so much flak over this after the whole birther issue. How Republicans did not see that they were going to pay for that nonsense is beyond me. Harry Reid has dropped a calculated shit bomb on Mitt Romney now, and he will have no choice but to release his tax returns. If he does not, the narrative that he is a millionaire tax avoider or even tax cheat will dog him until the election. In a weak economy, you do not want to be considered a rich guy who does not pay taxes. Smart political move from Harry Reid.

[Blake]

Hey, genius -- How could he have been a classmate of Obama's if Obama was never at Columbia?

You're just making shit up again.

smh........

.....rofl

[Yonivore]

smh........

.....rofl
No, he's right; the guy isn't claiming to have been a classmate of Obama's, I should have put the word "supposed" classmate because the guy claims he never saw Barack Obama at any Political Science classes -- the degree plan in which both were supposedly enrolled.

In fact, somebody polled a few hundred of Obama's ostensible classmates, from Columbia, and not one of them even remembers him being there.

My bad.

Of course, Obama could clear this all up by releasing his transcripts and enrollment documents.

[Yonivore]

So I take it back, Yonivore isn't stupid (for this reason).
Ignorance ≠ Stupidity -- Should I call you stupid for not knowing you could actually use the ≠ symbol?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/harry-reid-incompetence.jpg

[boutons_deux]

Reid must have the goods on Gecko, or he wouldn't continue to use the "no taxes" claim.

and the question remains:

"What Is Gecko Hiding in his tax returns?"

Gecko trashed/hid all his records as MA governor

Gecko trashed/hid all his records as NoWhereLand Olympics organizer

Such paranoid, sicko secrecy is expected for the usual 1%er hiding their tracks and wealth to avoid/evade taxes, but not acceptable To The Great American People for a President.

Gecko is self-fucked.

[CosmicCowboy]

That, or Romney may let the idiot dig himself a hole he can't back out of, then Romney makes him look like a fucking fool when he releases his returns (like Obama did Trump on the birth certificate.)

[ChumpDumper]

Reid has plausible deniability on this one. He said some dude told him.

[ChumpDumper]

No, he's right; the guy isn't claiming to have been a classmate of Obama's, I should have put the word "supposed" classmate because the guy claims he never saw Barack Obama at any Political Science classes -- the degree plan in which both were supposedly enrolled.

In fact, somebody polled a few hundred of Obama's ostensible classmates, from Columbia, and not one of them even remembers him being there.

My bad.

Of course, Obama could clear this all up by releasing his transcripts and enrollment documents.Why is this important to you personally?

[boutons_deux]

Why is this important to you personally?

All "oppo" ratshit turns Yoni's world

[baseline bum]

That, or Romney may let the idiot dig himself a hole he can't back out of, then Romney makes him look like a fucking fool when he releases his returns (like Obama did Trump on the birth certificate.)

Reid's already there, so what does he have to lose? :lol

Seriously still in shock that the Republicans nominated someone even worse in 2010, letting that jackass keep his seat.

[CosmicCowboy]

Reid's already there, so what does he have to lose? :lol

Seriously still in shock that the Republicans nominated someone even worse in 2010, letting that jackass keep his seat.

Agreed. Should have been a slam dunk. Sharron angle was a terrible choice.

[PublicOption]

http://www.jillstanek.com/hardball1.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

And, what do Romney's tax returns, beyond the two he's already turned over lend to any policy debate going on in the US today?
The tax code and the economy are two pretty big policy debates, in case you haven't noticed....

Also, wouldn't a Team Red homer such as yourself want Romney to release the tax returns so Team Red could possibly spare themselves the embarrassment of nominating a felon? After all, it's all about "rah, rah, Go Team Red" and not actual policies.....

[Wild Cobra]

I confess to being ignorant of that shorthand notation as well. When I went to school we used ≠ to mean "not equal".
I've never seen != till today myself.

Always seen it as ≠.

Now on schematics with logic designations, if you have a line called "equal," then invert the signal, the inverted signal name is is pronounced "not equal" but written as "/equal."

Where in hell is "!=" used? The "!" symbol for decades is used for something else. Why would someone use it and add to confusion when "/" already means not?

In AC math, "j" is used instead of "i" in formulas for the square root of -1. This is so it isn't confused with "I" for current.

[ElNono]

Use != every day... vast majority of programming languages use it to denote "not equal".

Mostly a limitation to the fact that ≠ isn't an ASCII character.

[ElNono]

I've never seen != till today myself.

Now on schematics with logic designations, if you have a line called "equal," then invert the signal, the inverted signal name is is pronounced "not equal" but written as "/equal."

Where in hell is "!=" used? The "!" symbol for decades is used for something else. Why would someone use it and add to confusion when "/" already means not?

The "!" symbol has been used as a boolean 'not' operator since programming languages have been born, pretty much. That's many decades ago too.

[Yonivore]

The tax code and the economy are two pretty big policy debates, in case you haven't noticed....
But, what do Mitt Romney's individual tax returns have to do with any debate over tax policy or the economy?


Also, wouldn't a Team Red homer such as yourself want Romney to release the tax returns so Team Red could possibly spare themselves the embarrassment of nominating a felon? After all, it's all about "rah, rah, Go Team Red" and not actual policies.....
There's nothing indicating he's a felon.

[ChumpDumper]

But, what do Mitt Romney's individual tax returns have to do with any debate over tax policy or the economy?It could be quite demonstrative of what some guy like Romney pays and how his tax plan would affect what he pays. After all, it's his bracket that is in play.

It's possible there were enough loopholes that Romney paid a notably low percentage of his income in taxes and he's just embarrassed about it, and it would give ammo to those who want to raise the rates of people like him.

[Clipper Nation]

But, what do Mitt Romney's individual tax returns have to do with any debate over tax policy or the economy?
If he's using all sorts of loopholes, it gives the tax-the-rich crowd ammo to demonize him as a greedy pig hoarding his money in a down economy... and if it turns out he's been evading taxes and has very little to show, that's a whole other issue.....


There's nothing indicating he's a felon.
Well, there's only one way to find out conclusively, tbh....

[Wild Cobra]

The "!" symbol has been used as a boolean 'not' operator since programming languages have been born, pretty much. That's many decades ago too.
I stand corrected, I just looked that up. The "!" was designated as "sometimes use" and two other notations were more common. I have never seen it used, or simply forgot, from those decades back when I learned Boolean math.

Still, who tries to convey a message using uncommon symbols, unless speaking to a group who uses the same?

[Yonivore]

Still, who tries to convey a message using uncommon symbols, unless speaking to a group who uses the same?
scott. It makes him feel smart, I guess.

I got to thinking, scott. Why would they have != as shorthand for ≠, when I was in middle school? We didn't use computers and everything was handwritten, it would be easier to write ≠ than !=.

Perhaps your reference is egocentric.

[Yonivore]

If he's using all sorts of loopholes, it gives the tax-the-rich crowd ammo to demonize him as a greedy pig hoarding his money in a down economy... and if it turns out he's been evading taxes and has very little to show, that's a whole other issue.....
So, Mitt Romney's individual tax returns have nothing to do with the greater debate over tax policy; it's just a vehicle his opponents hope to use against him. Got it.


Well, there's only one way to find out conclusively, tbh....
Actually, no; there is more than one way.

A criminal investigation could be launched, based on Harry Reid's criminal complaint and affidavit that he personally knows, or has reason to believe, Mitt Romney violated federal tax laws. The anonymous source could be deposed, the evidence could be presented to a grand jury and, if indicted, Mitt Romney could face his accusers, in court, and be tried by a jury of his peers.

That's generally the way it's done.

[CosmicCowboy]

Jeez guys...get over it.

It's an abbreviation that older guys that didn't grow up with computers didn't get.

I have no problem with Scott using it and I learned something new today.

!= = ≠

[Yonivore]

Jeez guys...get over it.

It's an abbreviation that older guys that didn't grow up with computers didn't get.

I have no problem with Scott using it and I learned something new today.

!= = ≠
Well, to be fair, he associated not knowing what the symbol meant with being stupid. That's probably why there was such a long conversation on the topic.

scott either knows everything and so should everyone else, or he believes just the things he does know are important and, if you don't know them, you're stupid. With scott, it's pretty much lose/lose.

Didn't used to be that way; but, who knows what's driving scott int he direction of being an insufferable prick. I blame Obama administration.

[djohn2oo8]

Seems like ol Mittens is quite the hypocrite.



During his losing Senate run against Ted Kennedy Romney demanded that Ted Kennedy provide his tax returns on the basis of the public's right to know:

"It's time the biggest-taxing senator in Washington shows the people of Massachusetts how much he pays in taxes," Romney said in April of 1994, according to a report in the Boston Globe

In 2002 Mr. Romney also demanded that his opponent (who had released her tax returns whilst Mr. Romney declined to provide his returns) provide her spouse's return.
...and this morning, in defense of his refusal to be forthcoming with the American voter, Romney used as a defense that John Kerry's SPOUSE had not provided her tax returns, totally ignoring that Senator Kerry had provided numerous returns.

At this point I'm not so sure that it is the failure to provide tax returns that will do the most damage to Mr. Romney, but it will be the exposure of his lack of character and consistency which will inflict the most damage.
This man's principles and ethics are simply a mess.

*As for taking Mr. Romney's word that there's nothing to be concerned about, to just trust him to tell the truth the linked Boston Globe article has a nifty little example of how Mr. Romney misrepresented his residency filing and then went back and amended his filing when the situation became uncomfortable.






http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/16/1110448/-Romney-Demanded-to-See-Ted-Kennedy-s-Tax-Returns

[Yonivore]

Seems like ol Mittens is quite the hypocrite.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/16/1110448/-Romney-Demanded-to-See-Ted-Kennedy-s-Tax-Returns
Except that his demand for Kennedy's taxes related to Kennedy's desire to tax everyone more. Wanting to cut everyone's taxes is inconsistent with a similar demand for Romney's taxes.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, to be fair, he associated not knowing what the symbol meant with being stupid.
Yep...

The least common of three ways to notate not equal in Boolean algebra, and we are the stupid ones?

Ignorant to uncommon and field specific knowledge I can accept.

[Blake]

Well, to be fair, he associated not knowing what the symbol meant with being stupid. That's probably why there was such a long conversation on the topic.

scott either knows everything and so should everyone else, or he believes just the things he does know are important and, if you don't know them, you're stupid. With scott, it's pretty much lose/lose.

Didn't used to be that way; but, who knows what's driving scott int he direction of being an insufferable prick. I blame Obama administration.

I can't say I've ever seen that symbol, but a degree in rocket surgery was not necessary to decipher that code. Your eighth grade education should have sufficed.

[Yonivore]

I can't say I've ever seen that symbol, but a degree in rocket surgery was not necessary to decipher that code. Your eighth grade education should have sufficed.
Really? I couldn't have just assumed he inadvertently hit the exclamation point and meant to say evade = avoid?

Typos happen in this forum a lot more than do obscure symbolism. I find your suggestion, you would have said the hoof beats were zebras and not horses, to be incredible.

[Nbadan]

Romney girl...

5v4PWW301JM#!