So what do you think about Castros proposal to raise the sales tax for pre-K educatio

[CosmicCowboy]

I think it's dumb.

San Antonio has no business creating a new bureaucracy for "education" when we already have the school districts to do this.

At a proposed cost of $10,000 PLUS per student to provide K4 services to 2000 kids it seems to be an awful boondoggle to me.

[scott]

I think it's dumb.

San Antonio has no business creating a new bureaucracy for "education" when we already have the school districts to do this.

At a proposed cost of $10,000 PLUS per student to provide K4 services to 2000 kids it seems to be an awful boondoggle to me.

I think Pre-K education has been proven to have a significant positive impact on students.

I also think this should be something the school districts fund (through property taxes), not the city.

I would argue that Pre-K is too important to be kept "outside" of the public education system (you have to pay extra to send your kid to Pre-K).

[CosmicCowboy]

I think Pre-K education has been proven to have a significant positive impact on students.

I also think this should be something the school districts fund (through property taxes), not the city.

I would argue that Pre-K is too important to be kept "outside" of the public education system (you have to pay extra to send your kid to Pre-K).

Agreed.

It is important but not a function the city should attempt to provide. And if we create this new city bureaucracy it will NEVER go away, as no politician would vote against "education".

[leemajors]

Pre-K is ridiculously expensive as it is. I got a 10% discount through work, but it was still $720/mo at Children's Courtyard.

[Blake]

Agreed.

It is important but not a function the city should attempt to provide. And if we create this new city bureaucracy it will NEVER go away, as no politician would vote against "education".

Concurred

[Drachen]

Pre-K is ridiculously expensive as it is. I got a 10% discount through work, but it was still $720/mo at Children's Courtyard.

Damn, I send my daughter to St. Matthews and last year (pre-k) was only 5600ish dollars.

[leemajors]

Damn, I send my daughter to St. Matthews and last year (pre-k) was only 5600ish dollars.

Yeah my ex and I needed a place that would also be able to keep her till 6:30 if needed. We roughly split the cost, but it was still a burden.

[TeyshaBlue]

Hmmm...my kids schools offer Pre-K at the school.

Not daycare tho. When you combo the two, that's when it gets expensive.

[TeyshaBlue]

And I remember well the costs of daycare for my two kids. Almost neutered myself over that.

[leemajors]

And I remember well the costs of daycare for my two kids. Almost neutered myself over that.

you can rent a nice house for day care costs, even in Austin.

[CosmicCowboy]

but is daycare a role of city government?

[coyotes_geek]

do the school districts have the scratch to cover it?

Sure. It's only a tax hike away.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you really need a teacher with a masters degree to herd 4 year olds?

[coyotes_geek]

but is daycare a role of city government?

That's up to the citizens. If the citizens want their city to be in the day care business, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it. If the citizens don't want their city to be in the day care business, then nobody should have a problem with that either.

[Drachen]

Yeah my ex and I needed a place that would also be able to keep her till 6:30 if needed. We roughly split the cost, but it was still a burden.

I am right there with you. their after school program was until 6:30 and it was 70 a month. I guess with that included it came out to nearly 6500. We used a babysitter though who charged us 150 a week for our newborn son and our daughter's after school care.

[CosmicCowboy]

So NOBODY thinks this is a good idea? My position is that we already have school districts and school boards in place to deal with education. They already have their bureaucracies and funding mechanisms in place. These school districts have school boards that we VOTE ON. If we don't like what they are doing we can vote them out.

Let the CITY set up an education branch and it will be un-elected bureaucrats running it and once voted in it will NEVER go away and will continue to grow and gobble tax revenue. Lets stop this before it starts.

City council votes tomorrow on whether to put this on the ballot this fall. I urge you to write your councilman right now and try to get this thing killed before it ever starts...

It's not about voting against education, it's about voting for the proper role of City Government.

Don't let Mayor Castro's political ambitions create a new black hole city bureaucracy that become an albatross that we can never get rid of.

[boutons_deux]

"funding mechanisms in place."

Didn't RickyBobby cut k12 funding by about $5B recently?

[boutons_deux]

...

[ElNono]

That's up to the citizens. If the citizens want their city to be in the day care business, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it. If the citizens don't want their city to be in the day care business, then nobody should have a problem with that either.

this

[Blake]

So NOBODY thinks this is a good idea? My position is that we already have school districts and school boards in place to deal with education. They already have their bureaucracies and funding mechanisms in place. These school districts have school boards that we VOTE ON. If we don't like what they are doing we can vote them out.

Let the CITY set up an education branch and it will be un-elected bureaucrats running it and once voted in it will NEVER go away and will continue to grow and gobble tax revenue. Lets stop this before it starts.

City council votes tomorrow on whether to put this on the ballot this fall. I urge you to write your councilman right now and try to get this thing killed before it ever starts...

It's not about voting against education, it's about voting for the proper role of City Government.

Don't let Mayor Castro's political ambitions create a new black hole city bureaucracy that become an albatross that we can never get rid of.

Thanks for the thread.

I just got off the phone with the District 8 council person's office asking to please vote it down.

fwiw, the secretary/aide said she has been taking calls all day on it and is keeping a running tab, so if you want to save time, I'd suggest taking the phone route over the writing route, imo.

[TeyshaBlue]

Thanks for the thread.

I just got off the phone with the District 8 council person's office asking to please vote it down.

fwiw, the secretary/aide said she has been taking calls all day on it and is keeping a running tab, so if you want to save time, I'd suggest taking the phone route over the writing route, imo.

Why bother? San Antonio is fucked and unfuckable!:lol

[Blake]

Why bother? San Antonio is fucked and unfuckable!:lol

”I think if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”

-Bob Knight



.....maybe Bobby is on to something.....

[Trainwreck2100]

the irony of course is that we had a fine way to pay for our school system, then the rich people bitched cause poorer schools were getting cash. And now we can't pay for our school system.

[Drachen]

I just read a bit about the policy on the mayor's .gov page. This thing doesn't even offer prek for everyone! Only those who qualify for pre k through the state by virtue of their income, their parents’ military status, time spent in the foster care system and their home language, but are "for one reason or another" not served. Becoming less of a fan of this by the minute.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's education. What branch of government is it fit for? if it needs to be done then what level of government?

[CosmicCowboy]

It's education. What branch of government is it fit for? if it needs to be done then what level of government?

How about the one that already deals with education? That already has the bureaucracy in place and has the funding sources in place? Are you aware that many school districts already offer PreK4? The fact that some parents are too fucking selfish and lazy to take advantage of it is not going to be solved by the city jumping into the education business.

If the city institutes this and uses that 1/8 cent sales tax buffer we have now to fund it this thing will NEVER go away...and the city will be at 8.25% and legally capped out...they can't legally raise the sales tax any higher.

The role of city government is to plan, build, and maintain infrastructure and keep the public safe with police and fire protection. Leave education to the fucking school districts.

[coyotes_geek]

If the city institutes this and uses that 1/8 cent sales tax buffer we have now to fund it this thing will NEVER go away...and the city will be at 8.25% and legally capped out...they can't legally raise the sales tax any higher.

This should be the most compelling arguement against the idea.

[boutons_deux]

S.A. schools fail federal standards

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/S-A-schools-fail-federal-standards-3773068.php

of course, Repugs say we must close all public schools, fire all unionized teachers because some schools fail (ignoring that many public schools are acceptable or wonderfully successful, with unionized teachers WTF?) :lol

[coyotes_geek]

smh

lol boutons

[vy65]

S.A. schools fail federal standards

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/S-A-schools-fail-federal-standards-3773068.php

of course, Repugs say we must close all public schools, fire all unionized teachers because some schools fail (ignoring that many public schools are acceptable or wonderfully successful, with unionized teachers WTF?) :lol

wtf does that have to do with pre-k, much less a city taxe for pre-k
:lol fucked
:lol unfuckable
:lol doesn't drink the tap water
b:lolut:lolns

[TeyshaBlue]

wtf does that have to do with pre-k, much less a city taxe for pre-k
:lol fucked
:lol unfuckable
:lol doesn't drink the tap water
b:lolut:lolns

Nothing. bot is as bot does.

[CosmicCowboy]

S.A. schools fail federal standards

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/S-A-schools-fail-federal-standards-3773068.php

of course, Repugs say we must close all public schools, fire all unionized teachers because some schools fail (ignoring that many public schools are acceptable or wonderfully successful, with unionized teachers WTF?) :lol

Did you actually read the article Boutons? This forum couldn't pass. They only allow 13% idiots this year and you would blow it for us.

[Drachen]

How about the one that already deals with education? That already has the bureaucracy in place and has the funding sources in place? Are you aware that many school districts already offer PreK4? The fact that some parents are too fucking selfish and lazy to take advantage of it is not going to be solved by the city jumping into the education business.

If the city institutes this and uses that 1/8 cent sales tax buffer we have now to fund it this thing will NEVER go away...and the city will be at 8.25% and legally capped out...they can't legally raise the sales tax any higher.

The role of city government is to plan, build, and maintain infrastructure and keep the public safe with police and fire protection. Leave education to the fucking school districts.

I didn't know about the emboldened part. This is pretty bad. Though one could argue that the only reason to save that 1/8 of a cent is for potential investment and the "conservative estimate of return" of 3 dollars for every 1 dollar invested seems to be a pretty good investment. Also, this money from the sales tax is mainly to act as equity that the city will leverage to get more state funds. I have said it before that I am pretty far against this plan, but I want to get the arguments in a row.

Also, leaving it up to the districts creates an uneven level of prek education, how do we stop that? (I know this opens up a whole 'nother can of worms regarding school funding, but it is valid).

[ElNono]

But Castro has the rings, bitches!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4jfiv9zdJ1rugvcno1_1280.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

:lol:lol

[RandomGuy]

I think Pre-K education has been proven to have a significant positive impact on students.

I also think this should be something the school districts fund (through property taxes), not the city.

I would argue that Pre-K is too important to be kept "outside" of the public education system (you have to pay extra to send your kid to Pre-K).

School disctricts are capped by the Texas constitution at a certain level that almost all are already at. To get any further increases require highly unpopular ballot initiatives that the vociferous minority tea party dolts will vote down, because they are the people who show up to vote in such things, sadly. (note: I had this explained to me by the budget director of his kids' school district, yes, I am the type who talks to those people)

The legislature strongly controlled by the Republican party and its crackpot Governors, and unwilling to fund education, has cut deeply into any funding from the state.

It won't happen at that level.

[RandomGuy]

The fact that some parents are too fucking selfish and lazy to take advantage

... means we should condemn their kids because of the parent's actions?

GF*Y*


This is the rot at the heart of the Republican party.

[TeyshaBlue]

School disctricts are capped by the Texas constitution at a certain level that almost all are already at. To get any further increases require highly unpopular ballot initiatives that the vociferous minority tea party dolts will vote down, because they are the people who show up to vote in such things, sadly. (note: I had this explained to me by the budget director of his kids' school district, yes, I am the type who talks to those people)

The legislature strongly controlled by the Republican party and its crackpot Governors, and unwilling to fund education, has cut deeply into any funding from the state.

It won't happen at that level.

There's alot of giveup in this post. Are you on the fucked and unfuckable bandwagon now?

[TeyshaBlue]

There's a funding lawsuit bout every 6 years. There's a better than zero chance this could be addressed by the legislature.

[ploto]

Not that I fully agree with the pre-K program and the city being involved in it, but considering people were happy to pay the same tax so millionaires could get a publicly paid-for AlamoDome, I am not too upset about it.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not that I fully agree with the pre-K program and the city being involved in it, but considering people were happy to pay the same tax so millionaires could get a publicly paid-for AlamoDome, I am not too upset about it.

I can see the point you're making. However, the bond was repaid. It was not an ongoing, open-ended expense. Kinda hard to compare on that level.

[CosmicCowboy]

School disctricts are capped by the Texas constitution at a certain level that almost all are already at. To get any further increases require highly unpopular ballot initiatives that the vociferous minority tea party dolts will vote down, because they are the people who show up to vote in such things, sadly. (note: I had this explained to me by the budget director of his kids' school district, yes, I am the type who talks to those people)

The legislature strongly controlled by the Republican party and its crackpot Governors, and unwilling to fund education, has cut deeply into any funding from the state.

It won't happen at that level.

When was the last time "minority tea party dolts" voted down a school bond issue in San Antonio?

You are just SO full of shit.

[RandomGuy]

When was the last time "minority tea party dolts" voted down a school bond issue in San Antonio?

You are just SO full of shit.

I didn't say they did.

If a property tax increase was put on the ballot, it doesn't take a Wild Cobra to ferret out the likely reaction to it.

All in all, I would generally prefer the school system do it as well.

I just know why it won't happen.

[CosmicCowboy]

NEISD ANNOUNCES OPEN ENROLLMENT FOR PRE-KINDERGARTEN
North East ISD will hold pre-kindergarten registration Aug. 4-13 at each elementary school. Parents may call their neighborhood elementary school for registration times. Additionally, the City of San Antonio and Family Service Association will operate 9 Head Start programs (below) within North East ISD.

“We will make classes for all students who are qualified, and there will be no waiting list,” said Linda Hamilton, Early Childhood Coordinator. “With Head Start and our pre-k programs, we will be able to offer multiple opportunities to serve families.”

NEISD’s half day pre-kindergarten program is available for children who meet the following criteria for enrollment:
• Child will be 4 years of age on or before September 1 of 2010; and
• Child is a resident of NEISD; and
• Child is current with required immunization on or before the first day of school; and
• Child meets at least one of the following requirements:

Child is unable to speak and comprehend the English Language (Home Language Survey must be completed, child must be tested for English acquisition, child must qualify for the program); or
Child is homeless, as defined by [42 USC 11302]; or
Child is educationally disadvantaged (income eligible, food stamp eligible, foster child); or Reduced Lunch Program, food stamp (SNAP Food Benefits) eligible, TANF eligible); or
Child meets the criteria for parent serving on active duty in the armed forces, including a child of a member who was hurt or killed on active duty; or
Child is or has ever been in the conservatorship of the Department of Family and Protective Services following an adversary hearing. (in foster care, adopted after conservatorship, returned to parent after conservatorship).
When registering, parents are required to bring the following for all eligible students: updated immunization record, certified copy of birth certificate, social security card, proof of residency, and valid driver’s license of parent/guardian.

To qualify as educationally disadvantaged, parents must provide one of the following: a foster child written document, food stamp (SNAP) or TANF approval letter with case number, or proof of income eligibility dated no earlier than June 24.

To qualify as active duty in the armed forces, parents must provide one of the following: Department of Defense (DoD) photo ID, or copies of “Statement of Service” letter, Purple Heart orders or citation, Line of Duty Determination, “Missing in Action” documentation, Death Certificate on the appropriate DoD form.

Pre-kindergarten registration will continue to be accepted after Aug. 13. For more information on the NEISD pre-kindergarten program, visit http://www.neisd.net/curriculum/CurComp/ece/Pre-KindergartenInternet.htm.

The City of San Antonio and Family Service Association will operate the following Head Start centers within North East ISD:

Crestway 6925 Crestway
Ferrari 107 Rampart
George Gervin 6944 Sunbelt Dr.
Lost Creek 16352 Judson Rd.
Montgomery 6758 Montgomery
Northeast 618 Lanark
Rhapsody 212 Rhapsody
The Oaks 2738 Shingle Oak Dr.
Valley Forge 13134 Independence

For more information on Head Start, visit www.family-service.org .

[RandomGuy]

There's alot of giveup in this post. Are you on the fucked and unfuckable bandwagon now?

Nah. I will play the waiting game.

The GOP will continue to shit on poor people as being lazy and dumb, especially poor brown people, and the poor brown people will get the message loud and clear.

It is a little like watching jihadis fail in places like Iraq and Afghanistan because they indescriminantly kill people.

Both actions tend to turn people against you in the long run.

That is why terrorism in general fails (reference IRA bombings), and that is why the Republican party will decline in power.

QED.

[RandomGuy]

For more information on Head Start, visit www.family-service.org .

Does access to the internet increase or decrease when one looks at family income?

i.e. is it positively or negatively correlated?

[CosmicCowboy]

Nah. I will play the waiting game.

The GOP will continue to shit on poor people as being lazy and dumb, especially poor brown people, and the poor brown people will get the message loud and clear.

It is a little like watching jihadis fail in places like Iraq and Afghanistan because they indescriminantly kill people.

Both actions tend to turn people against you in the long run.

That is why terrorism will fail, and that is why the Republican party will decline in power.

QED.

How are current pre-k policys shitting on poor people? Fuck, they are the only ones that get pre-K.

Again, you are totally full of shit.

[RandomGuy]

There's a funding lawsuit bout every 6 years. There's a better than zero chance this could be addressed by the legislature.

Not by the current lege. I dunno. Lunch is up.

I will dig around on this further, it is interesting.

[CosmicCowboy]

Does access to the internet increase or decrease when one looks at family income?

i.e. is it positively or negatively correlated?

internet access is practically universal.

[Drachen]

Does access to the internet increase or decrease when one looks at family income?

i.e. is it positively or negatively correlated?

so your root problem is now with how the info is disseminated?

[RandomGuy]

How are current pre-k policys shitting on poor people? Fuck, they are the only ones that get pre-K.

Again, you are totally full of shit.

Again, I didn't say they were.

I was referencing things like your referring to people who don't get their kids into the limited existing pre-k slots as somehow automatically "lazy".

You don't see it, but the implicit "blame the victim" mentality is dumb and immoral IMO.

I will take it all back, if you have any shred of evidence that the problem isn't a lack of capacity, but a lack of desire on the part of poorer parents to give their kids a chance at a good education.

Do you have any evidence to support your "lazy" crack?

[Drachen]

internet access is practically universal.

also not true. heck, computer literacy isn't even universal.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell, all the Lone Star carrying vatos I see at the Valero seem to have smart phones.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, I didn't say they were.

I was referencing things like your referring to people who don't get their kids into the limited existing pre-k slots as somehow automatically "lazy".

You don't see it, but the implicit "blame the victim" mentality is dumb and immoral IMO.

I will take it all back, if you have any shred of evidence that the problem isn't a lack of capacity, but a lack of desire on the part of poorer parents to give their kids a chance at a good education.

Do you have any evidence to support your "lazy" crack?

If free pre-k is available and they don't get their kids in it, then yeah, they are lazy fucks and shitty parents. You actually want to dispute that?

[Drachen]

Hell, all the Lone Star carrying vatos I see at the Valero seem to have smart phones.

of the big four wireless carriers AT&T is number one in smart phone adoption at 62%.

[CosmicCowboy]

of the big four wireless carriers AT&T is number one in smart phone adoption at 62%.

LOL, most of the people I know that don't have smart phones are old people like my mom and dad.

[Drachen]

LOL, most of the people I know that don't have smart phones are old people like my mom and dad.

could be, I didn't have a demographic break down for the project I did, but thought it was at least topical to the conversation.

[CosmicCowboy]

Speaking of smart phones my ATT rep just called me today and put me on the list for the iphone 5.

[RandomGuy]

If free pre-k is available and they don't get their kids in it, then yeah, they are lazy fucks and shitty parents. You actually want to dispute that?


:bang

Not what I said. Let me expand a bit, so we aren't talking past each other, because I can see where you are at here, and it isn't where you think you are.

If someone has the option of putting their kids in one of these programs, but doesn't, all things held equal and with no other considerations, then yes, they are lazy fucks and shitty parents.

That wasn't what I was asking.

I was asking you if you had any evidence to support your contention that all, some, or most of the people with kids that might be eligible, simply have not done so, because they are too lazy to.

i.e. can you think of another reason they might not get their kids in (such as not enough spaces, or lack of transportation) and what percentage of the people are, as you say, lazy, and how many simply lack access? how strong is your evidence for this theory?

Do you understand what I am asking for now?

[CosmicCowboy]

Sounds like you are asking for excuses.

[Drachen]

Sounds like you are asking for excuses.

I think that he was asking for proof of your claim that they are all lazy fucks. Then he suggested some (valid) reasons/excuses (whatever you want to call it) that don't have to do with being lazy fucks.

[RandomGuy]

Sounds like you are asking for excuses.

Sounds like you have no evidence to support your theory.

I prefer to find solutions based on evidence, and a reasonable assessment of what works and what doesn't.

How exactly *do* you find solutions to problems?

[RandomGuy]

I think that he was asking for proof of your claim that they are all lazy fucks. Then he suggested some (valid) reasons/excuses (whatever you want to call it) that don't have to do with being lazy fucks.

The definition of "valid" in this case, being "there is no valid reason, because if someone had a remotely valid reason, I couldn't feel all smug and judgmental about them, and I am far more concerned with emotions and what makes me feel good".

Like I said, blame the victim, all poor people are assumed to be morally deficiient by dint of their poverty.

That is the rot at the heart of the Republican party. It is an ugly evil thing that wells up in debates like this.

Republican solutions are what feels good, not what is either morally right, or pragmatic.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sounds like you have no evidence to support your theory.

I prefer to find solutions based on evidence, and a reasonable assessment of what works and what doesn't.

How exactly *do* you find solutions to problems?

There is NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE for not taking care of your kids needs.

NONE.

The only excuse you offered was lack of transportation and we have public transportation or *gasp* they could actually walk their kids to school.

Work is not an excuse. My son and daughter in law both work 40 hour+ weeks and still have managed to get their children to pre-K that they paid for. Millions of other parents that give a shit do the same thing.

For every excuse you can come up with on why parents don't take advantage of the free pre-k programs available to them I can give you a "reasonable solution" to your excuse.

[CosmicCowboy]

And fuck you, I never said all poor people were morally deficient.

[Wild Cobra]

Sounds like you have no evidence to support your theory.

I prefer to find solutions based on evidence, and a reasonable assessment of what works and what doesn't.

How exactly *do* you find solutions to problems?
Solutions may be hard at time, but government should never be the solution in most cases. Not when it comes to educating children, unless you want them indoctrinated.

[coyotes_geek]

Solutions may be hard at time, but government should never be the solution in most cases. Not when it comes to educating children, unless you want them indoctrinated.

:tu

Government should never be the solution except in those instances where government should be the solution.

[TeyshaBlue]

:tu

Government should never be the solution except in those instances where government should be the solution.

:lol

[RandomGuy]

bla bla bla no evidence bla bla bla

Fine.

Please stop asking me to make public policy based on what makes you feel good.

[RandomGuy]

And fuck you, I never said all poor people were morally deficient.

It is a pretty implicit assertion in yours and many others' comments. You don't see it, and that is the funny part. I will laugh when your party starts losing elections, and you can't figure out why.

Rot, nothing but rot. Moral bankruptcy at its worst, IMO.

[Wild Cobra]

It is a pretty implicit assertion in yours and many others' comments. You don't see it, and that is the funny part. I will laugh when your party starts losing elections, and you can't figure out why.

Rot, nothing but rot. Moral bankruptcy at its worst, IMO.
Why do people like you keep making irrational assumptions?

Make things hard to get food stamps, vote, etc... Racist... No it isn't. There are more poor whites than poor blacks.

Poor people being stupid... I would say that intelligence is a factor in wealth, but not always. Life always has a measure of good and bad luck.

[CosmicCowboy]

It is a pretty implicit assertion in yours and many others' comments. You don't see it, and that is the funny part. I will laugh when your party starts losing elections, and you can't figure out why.

Rot, nothing but rot. Moral bankruptcy at its worst, IMO.

Oh, fuck you.

It is not an implicit assertion. There is a percentage of people that are just fucked up. We can argue about the number but you can't deny it is a fact.

All poor people are not bad. All rich people are not bad.

All poor people are not good. All rich people are not good.

do you see a pattern here?

Your blanket allegation bullshit just shows what a knee jerk shithead you are. You are the Yin to people like WC's yang.

[RandomGuy]

Oh, fuck you.

It is not an implicit assertion. There is a percentage of people that are just fucked up. We can argue about the number but you can't deny it is a fact.

All poor people are not bad. All rich people are not bad.

All poor people are not good. All rich people are not good.

do you see a pattern here?

Your blanket allegation bullshit just shows what a knee jerk shithead you are. You are the Yin to people like WC's yang.

What we really have here is a difference of opinion.

I am of the opinion that you don't have enough information to make a meaningful, useful decision on the topic.

You are of the opinion that you know everything you need to know.

The fact you have no evidence to support your theory should be a red flag to you.

Sadly, that does not appear to be the case either.

Personally, I don't think *I* have enough information, either, FWIW.

[RandomGuy]

If free pre-k is available and they don't get their kids in it, then yeah, they are lazy fucks and shitty parents. You actually want to dispute that?

So, if there aren't enough slots, is that a valid excuse for you?

[CosmicCowboy]

So, if there aren't enough slots, is that a valid excuse for you?

just another weak ass excuse


“We will make classes for all students who are qualified, and there will be no waiting list,” said Linda Hamilton, Early Childhood Coordinator. “With Head Start and our pre-k programs, we will be able to offer multiple opportunities to serve families.”

[RandomGuy]

There is NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE for not taking care of your kids needs.

NONE.

The only excuse you offered was lack of transportation and we have public transportation or *gasp* they could actually walk their kids to school.

Work is not an excuse. My son and daughter in law both work 40 hour+ weeks and still have managed to get their children to pre-K that they paid for. Millions of other parents that give a shit do the same thing.

For every excuse you can come up with on why parents don't take advantage of the free pre-k programs available to them I can give you a "reasonable solution" to your excuse.

I don't need to come up with excuses.

You need to come up with evidence, it is your theory. Quit trying to wiggle out of it, take some personal responsibility.

There is NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE for not providing evidence to support your moral rot.

NONE.

The only excuse you offered was judgmental claptrap and shitty anecdotes.

Having shitty anecedotes is not an excuse for not having a reasonable standard of evidence.

Do you have anything beyond some personal anecdote that might actually help?

Can you show me supply and demand? Can you provide some survey as to utilization whys and wherefores? ANYTHING?

[RandomGuy]

just another weak ass excuse

That really isn't an answer to my question.

I didn't ask what the goal of the program is from the administrator.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't need to come up with excuses.

You need to come up with evidence, it is your theory. Quit trying to wiggle out of it, take some personal responsibility.

There is NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE for not providing evidence to support your moral rot.

NONE.

The only excuse you offered was judgmental claptrap and shitty anecdotes.

Having shitty anecedotes is not an excuse for not having a reasonable standard of evidence.

Do you have anything beyond some personal anecdote that might actually help?

Can you show me supply and demand? Can you provide some survey as to utilization whys and wherefores? ANYTHING?

:lmao:lmao:lmao:l mao:lmao;lmao:lmao:lmao

God you are a tool.

This was your argument that poor people were getting fucked out of pre-K


School disctricts are capped by the Texas constitution at a certain level that almost all are already at. To get any further increases require highly unpopular ballot initiatives that the vociferous minority tea party dolts will vote down, because they are the people who show up to vote in such things, sadly. (note: I had this explained to me by the budget director of his kids' school district, yes, I am the type who talks to those people)

The legislature strongly controlled by the Republican party and its crackpot Governors, and unwilling to fund education, has cut deeply into any funding from the state.

It won't happen at that level.

I totally DESTROYED your fucking argument with FACTS that in fact ALL poor kids are currently eligible for pre-k and yes...it is my opinion that if a parent is not taking advantage of the free pre-k program they are lazy fucks and shitty parents.

[RandomGuy]

Oh, fuck you.

There is a percentage of people that are just fucked up. We can argue about the number but you can't deny it is a fact.

There are broken human beings who will always be mired in poverty. I fully agree.

I just can't tell who is just fucked up and who is savable, and where the dividing line is.

I also don't think that punishign their children somehow by denying them social services is good for society.

Don't force me to make public policy based on your desire to feel superior to the broken people.

I prefer facts over emotions.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:l mao:lmao;lmao:lmao:lmao

God you are a tool.

This was your argument that poor people were getting fucked out of pre-K



I totally DESTROYED your fucking argument with FACTS that in fact ALL poor kids are currently eligible for pre-k and yes...it is my opinion that if a parent is not taking advantage of the free pre-k program they are lazy fucks and shitty parents.

:sleep

Meh. You didn't. You're just getting worked up and pissy, and are incapable of seeing how flimsy what you have put forth is.

Sorry. You can't point to a moehill, claim it is a mountain and expect me to buy it.

[CosmicCowboy]

There are broken human beings who will always be mired in poverty. I fully agree.

I just can't tell who is just fucked up and who is savable, and where the dividing line is.

I also don't think that punishign their children somehow by denying them social services is good for society.

Don't force me to make public policy based on your desire to feel superior to the broken people.

I prefer facts over emotions.

You are so fucking stupid. These kids ALREADY GET FREE PRE-K!

I'm not advocating punishing poor kids.

I cut and pasted the fucking school districts policy stating that they would make sure that every kid that applied and qualified for pre-k had a place in the class.

That's a fact, dumbass.

[RandomGuy]

in fact ALL poor kids are currently eligible for pre-k


"All poor kids are eligible" does not show that there are X number of slots and Y number of kids who want in.

Statements that the goal is to get all the kids into the program by the administrator doesn't provide reasonable evidence about supply and demand, it just shows what they want to do.

You do understand between "want to do" and "can do", right?

Sorry.

You suck at this evidence based arguing, and *I'm* the one that acts like WC?

[TeyshaBlue]

"All poor kids are eligible" does not show that there are X number of slots and Y number of kids who want in.

Statements that the goal is to get all the kids into the program by the administrator doesn't provide reasonable evidence about supply and demand, it just shows what they want to do.

You do understand between "want to do" and "can do", right?

Sorry.

You suck at this evidence based arguing, and *I'm* the one that acts like WC?

When the program administrator states, publicly "“We will make classes for all students who are qualified, and there will be no waiting list. With Head Start and our pre-k programs, we will be able to offer multiple opportunities to serve families.” it seems implicit that supply and demand is not an issue.

[RandomGuy]

You are so fucking stupid. These kids ALREADY GET FREE PRE-K!

I'm not advocating punishing poor kids.

I cut and pasted the fucking school districts policy stating that they would make sure that every kid that applied and qualified for pre-k had a place in the class.

That's a fact, dumbass.

Sigh.

Whatever. You don't get it, and I am not going to spoon feed it to you.

You win. Your stupid is too powerful. I give up Anecdote Man.

Vanquished............ :depressed

[CosmicCowboy]

"All poor kids are eligible" does not show that there are X number of slots and Y number of kids who want in.

Statements that the goal is to get all the kids into the program by the administrator doesn't provide reasonable evidence about supply and demand, it just shows what they want to do.

You do understand between "want to do" and "can do", right?

Sorry.

You suck at this evidence based arguing, and *I'm* the one that acts like WC?

You fucking idiot.


“We will make classes for all students who are qualified, and there will be no waiting list,” said Linda Hamilton, Early Childhood Coordinator. “With Head Start and our pre-k programs, we will be able to offer multiple opportunities to serve families.”

[Drachen]

Random: what TB said, there shouldn't be any reason that a child in NEISD who qualifies shouldn't have their kid in pre-k.

CC: You only posted for NEISD, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the city enjoys such adequate prek classes.



Edit: Using public transportation may qualify in some cases. I had to wake up at 4:45 at my house at jones maltsberger and thousand oaks to get to my job at fredericksburg and prue by 8:00 when I had no car. If I had to make a side stop (say to drop a kid off) then I wouldn't have been able to make it. Also, you usually can't drop the kid off until something like 7:15 further hampering the efforts.

Edit further: you have to leave your kid somewhere during the day, so presumably you have figured out a way to transport them to that place, so you should be able to figure this out.

Conclusion: Transportation shouldn't be an issue in most cases, but can be valid.


IMO

[CosmicCowboy]

Random: what TB said, there shouldn't be any reason that a child in NEISD who qualifies shouldn't have their kid in pre-k.

CC: You only posted for NEISD, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the city enjoys such adequate prek classes.

They all do.

http://www.saisd.net/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:pkroundupinformation&catid=3:news&Itemid=151

http://www.nisd.net/instruction/kinder/

http://www.southsanisd.net/news.cfm?story=43814

http://www.mysanantonio.com/community/southside/news/article/Harlandale-ISD-kids-registering-for-pre-K-1255585.php

[CosmicCowboy]

So back to the original premise. Why the hell should the city of San Antonio set up a duplicating services to serve exactly the same target that the school districts are already serving?

[RandomGuy]

When the program administrator states, publicly "“We will make classes for all students who are qualified, and there will be no waiting list. With Head Start and our pre-k programs, we will be able to offer multiple opportunities to serve families.” it seems implicit that supply and demand is not an issue.

Thank you.

I will readily grant that they certainly would want to, but I would prefer to have a bit better information than what they want to.

Implicit, mmmmmaybe. Proven to I would find to be even a mildly reasonable degree that there are enough slots?

No.

As I said, I don't have enough information to really make the call as to the need for another program.

To be perfectly fair, it goes the other way as well. Is there a need at all for another program?

Hows that for intellectual honesty.

That is the question that CC should be asking.

The answer is:

I don't know. I would realy like to know, though. It seems important enough to spend time learning about.

[RandomGuy]

Random: what TB said, there shouldn't be any reason that a child in NEISD who qualifies shouldn't have their kid in pre-k.

CC: You only posted for NEISD, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the city enjoys such adequate prek classes.


Edit: Using public transportation may qualify in some cases. I had to wake up at 4:45 at my house at jones maltsberger and thousand oaks to get to my job at fredericksburg and prue by 8:00 when I had no car. If I had to make a side stop (say to drop a kid off) then I wouldn't have been able to make it. Also, you usually can't drop the kid off until something like 7:15 further hampering the efforts.

Edit further: you have to leave your kid somewhere during the day, so presumably you have figured out a way to transport them to that place, so you should be able to figure this out.

Conclusion: Transportation shouldn't be an issue in most cases, but can be valid.


IMO

Again, thank you.

I think we are way talking past each other. I am certainly not helping by being a judgmental dick about CC being a judgmental dick.

[Drachen]

They all do.

http://www.saisd.net/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=406:pkroundupinformation&catid=3:news&Itemid=151

http://www.nisd.net/instruction/kinder/

http://www.southsanisd.net/news.cfm?story=43814

http://www.mysanantonio.com/community/southside/news/article/Harlandale-ISD-kids-registering-for-pre-K-1255585.php

I am not trying to be antagonistic, and perhaps I missed it, but I clicked on the very first link (SAISD) and it gave no such guarantee of space.

I just read it again and didn't see it.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's a profit center for the schools. They are reimbursed by the state. They make room.

The real issue is that some are half day and some are full day. The state pays for half day for all and full day for some.

I still say this should be worked out between the state and the school districts and the city has no business getting into the education business serving the exact same target group.

[TeyshaBlue]

Again, thank you.

I think we are way talking past each other. I am certainly not helping by being a judgmental dick about CC being a judgmental dick.

Everybody should embrace their judgmental dickism on occasion.:toast:lol

[Drachen]

It's a profit center for the schools. They are reimbursed by the state. They make room.

The real issue is that some are half day and some are full day. The state pays for half day for all and full day for some.

I still say this should be worked out between the state and the school districts and the city has no business getting into the education business serving the exact same target group.

I have already stated that I agree with your position, but obviously those who qualify are not getting served as the whole point of this program is to "serve those who qualify but are for one reason or another not being served."

[CosmicCowboy]

I have already stated that I agree with your position, but obviously those who qualify are not getting served as the whole point of this program is to "serve those who qualify but are for one reason or another not being served."

IMHO it's the old adage that "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."

The programs are in place.

They are available free to all that qualify.

Some parents aren't taking advantage of the free programs that already exist. You obviously can't expect a 4 year old to enroll themselves.

How does creating a NEW free program that does exactly the same thing as the existing free programs suddenly make these non-participating parents participate?

What are they gonna do? Go out and arrest these 4 year olds that belong to these shitty parents and put them in Castros new pre-k?

[Drachen]

IMHO it's the old adage that "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."

The programs are in place.

They are available free to all that qualify.

Some parents aren't taking advantage of the free programs that already exist. You obviously can't expect a 4 year old to enroll themselves.

How does creating a NEW free program that does exactly the same thing as the existing free programs suddenly make these non-participating parents participate?

What are they gonna do? Go out and arrest these 4 year olds that belong to these shitty parents and put them in Castros new pre-k?

This is antecdotal just so you know, but I went to school with a girl whose daughter qualified based on income, but she got waitlisted (I do not know which district, sorry). She leans right like michael jackson dances in smooth criminal.
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZX1JUIf55nqjWVEB37VIpAVCdy_vZz G5q-3ScztrG6xlMk0vF

She is blaming it all on those "damn spanish speaking illegals who are taking up space."


edit: the MJ thing sounded better in my head, suffice to say she is far right which is neither here nor there, I just figured my antecdote needed background story.

[Latarian Milton]

dude just wants tax raised, pre-k just a pretext imho

[ploto]

I believe the new program will be for students who do not qualify for the current program offered by the schools.

[RandomGuy]

I believe the new program will be for students who do not qualify for the current program offered by the schools.

Interesting.

I think there is a lot more to know about this, and that kneejerk reactionary bullshit is a poor way to vote.

Here are what I see as information sufficient to gauge the issue:

Number of slots available, per district.
Number of children in need. This requires the following information:

--household income statistics for people with children to help define an actual need and
--a comparison of that need with the slots made
--information on waiting lists, if any, as well as information on who is turned down as "ineligible"
--a bit of information on childhood development and the effects of pre-k education on that, with some decent cause/effect data as opposed to correlation data

I'm sure I will think of more.

[RandomGuy]

They are available free to all that qualify.


What about the children that don't qualify? Do you know if the ones that don't qualify actually need it, but are just on the edge of qualifying, with parents that can't afford it?

[RandomGuy]

How does creating a NEW free program that does exactly the same thing as the existing free programs suddenly make these non-participating parents participate?

What are they gonna do? Go out and arrest these 4 year olds that belong to these shitty parents and put them in Castros new pre-k?

Setting aside the strawman argument there, can you tell me how many of these "bad parents" there are? You seem awfully convinced they exist.

[RandomGuy]

I will quit being a dick, and simply stick to asking tough questions that I know I will not get answered, but I think any reasonable, conscientious person should be concerned about to judge the issue.

I think that will make the irrationality of Cosmic Cowboy's stated position on the issue a lot clearer.

All I have to do to make my case is ask good critical thinking questions, and simply wait for your utter inability to answer them, Cowboy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Setting aside the strawman argument there, can you tell me how many of these "bad parents" there are? You seem awfully convinced they exist.

According to Castro there are about 5000 kids that currently qualify and don't take advantage of the program. His number, not mine.

[RandomGuy]

According to Castro there are about 5000 kids that currently qualify and don't take advantage of the program. His number, not mine.

That doesn't really answer my question to any reasonable degree. I don't accept his off the cuff data either, as previously stated. I care more about the truth than being right or wrong.

I want parameters, and the basis for need first. This seems to me like it is important to get that kind of information.

If you have any link to a source article, that would be a start.

[CosmicCowboy]

I will quit being a dick, and simply stick to asking tough questions that I know I will not get answered, but I think any reasonable, conscientious person should be concerned about to judge the issue.

I think that will make the irrationality of Cosmic Cowboy's stated position on the issue a lot clearer.

All I have to do to make my case is ask good critical thinking questions, and simply wait for your utter inability to answer them, Cowboy.


There are approximately 5,700 four-year-old children living in San Antonio who are eligible for State funded Pre-K but currently are not enrolled in a full day Pre-K program. An estimated 2,300 eligible four-year-old children currently are not enrolled in any Pre-K program while 3,400 are enrolled in half-day programs in the City of San Antonio.

suck it

[TeyshaBlue]

That doesn't really answer my question to any reasonable degree. I don't accept his off the cuff data either, as previously stated. I care more about the truth than being right or wrong.

I want parameters, and the basis for need first. This seems to me like it is important to get that kind of information.

If you have any link to a source article, that would be a start.

I'm relatively certain the local ISD's already have this data.

[RandomGuy]

Well, a bit of digging found some interesting fact sheets from both sides. Looks like a lot to wade through that will have to wait until this evening, when I have the time.

[RandomGuy]

one brief bit that provides a good starting point, as it details the proposal:

http://www.sanantonio.gov/portals/0/Files/Summary%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, a bit of digging found some interesting fact sheets from both sides. Looks like a lot to wade through that will have to wait until this evening, when I have the time.

You will find that the issue is not qualification...the city proposal will use exactly the same standards for free pre-k admission that is currently being used by the school districts. The issue is funding full day programs instead of half day programs.

You will also find that exactly as I stated there are thousands of kids (Castro says 2300) who currently qualify for free pre-k yet their parents haven't enrolled them.

You want to make excuses for the parents.

I say it is the parents responsibility to do the right thing for their children.

I also say that creating a new program that serves the same kids using the same entry requirements won't make those parents responsible parents.

[TeyshaBlue]

Interesting link. They've completely neglected to build a case as to why this should be done....

These points seems counter-productive:
"Ten percent of enrollment at the Education Excellence Centers will be made available to children who do not fall within the State eligibility criteria. These families will pay varying levels of tuition based upon their income.

Enrollment for the Education Excellence Centers will be chosen through objective and unbiased lottery systems administered by participating school districts."

I'd rather they use this approach exclusively:
"In the 2016-2017 school year, Pre-K 4 SA will offer competitive grants to school districts, charter, private/parochial schools, and community providers to offer full day and/or enhanced Pre-K services for approximately 1,700 four-year-old children annually."
It's a hell of alot more effective than creating 4 "Educational Excellence Centers" and expecting the traffic to come to them.

Again, why reinvent the wheel? Add funding to local schools via Pre-K SA, if you are absolutely sure that it's not being offered, which by dint of their data, doesn't seem to be the case.

[CosmicCowboy]

Interesting link. They've completely neglected to build a case as to why this should be done....

These points seems counter-productive:
"Ten percent of enrollment at the Education Excellence Centers will be made available to children who do not fall within the State eligibility criteria. These families will pay varying levels of tuition based upon their income.

Enrollment for the Education Excellence Centers will be chosen through objective and unbiased lottery systems administered by participating school districts."

I'd rather they use this approach exclusively:
"In the 2016-2017 school year, Pre-K 4 SA will offer competitive grants to school districts, charter, private/parochial schools, and community providers to offer full day and/or enhanced Pre-K services for approximately 1,700 four-year-old children annually."
It's a hell of alot more effective than creating 4 "Educational Excellence Centers" and expecting the traffic to come to them.

Again, why reinvent the wheel? Add funding to local schools via Pre-K SA, if you are absolutely sure that it's not being offered, which by dint of their data, doesn't seem to be the case.

Exactly

And if both side agree that pre-k4 is critically important then make it mandatory (just like enrolling your child in 1st grade) and fund it at the state level.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, i am not against pre-k4.

I'm against the city of San Antonio doing it.

This is pure politics to enhance Castro's educational creds for when he leaves San Antonio and pursues higher office.

[RandomGuy]

the city proposal will use exactly the same standards for free pre-k admission that is currently being used by the school districts.



Ten percent of enrollment at the Education Excellence Centers will be made available to children who do not fall within the State eligibility criteria. These families will pay varying levels of tuition based upon their income.
Enrollment for the Education Excellence Centers will be chosen through ... lottery systems administered by participating school districts

http://www.sanantonio.gov/portals/0/Files/Summary%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

[boutons_deux]

fund it at the state level.

But TX is broke!

RickyBobby cut $5B+ from education.

[TeyshaBlue]

Quiet. The grownups are talking.

[CosmicCowboy]

RG you SUCK at reading comprehension.


Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
the city proposal will use exactly the same standards for free pre-k admission that is currently being used by the school districts.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think RG is just blinded by his desperate desire to argue with me. Some serious butthurt going on there.

[RandomGuy]

You want to make excuses for the parents.

Nope. :nope

I reject your definition of "excuse", and simply want information, before reaching any kind of conclusion.

If there are 2200 children that are eligible but not enrolled, what can you show me about the reasons for that? Anything?

[TeyshaBlue]

Nope. :nope

I reject your definition of "excuse", and simply want information, before reaching any kind of conclusion.

If there are 2200 children that are eligible but not enrolled, what can you show me about the reasons for that? Anything?

By the same token, can you show me how the city addresses these reasons (which remained undefined) with their new plan?

[TeyshaBlue]

Additionally, how are the schools failing to address these reasons?

[CosmicCowboy]

Nope. :nope

I reject your definition of "excuse", and simply want information, before reaching any kind of conclusion.

If there are 2200 children that are eligible but not enrolled, what can you show me about the reasons for that? Anything?

Easy.

At least 2200 parents neglected to enroll their kids in a free pre-k program that was available to them.

I thought even a dumbfuck like you could figure that one out.

[TeyshaBlue]

The data set of unreached students is not a reason unto itself for action.

[RandomGuy]

I think RG is just blinded by his desperate desire to argue with me. Some serious butthurt going on there.

:nope

Wrong again.

I care far more about getting to enough information to make a decent decision. Please stop making unproven or incorrect assumptions about my motivations.

To be clear:

I do not care about proving you right or wrong. I have actually agreed with you mildly on a couple of points, but have been too busy being a dick to emphasize or expand on that.

[RandomGuy]

RG you SUCK at reading comprehension.

I noted that there is actually a slight expansion of the people that the programs were to be offered, beyond the bare minimium.

A part you neglected to mention, for whatever reason.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/BertandErnie.gif

[RandomGuy]

Easy.

At least 2200 parents neglected to enroll their kids in a free pre-k program that was available to them.

I thought even a dumbfuck like you could figure that one out.


There are approximately 5,700 four-year-old children living in San Antonio who are eligible for State funded Pre-K but currently are not enrolled in a full day Pre-K program.

The only data we have is that they are eligible, but not enrolled.

There is abosulutely nothing about the why.

You have assumed that it was the choice, conscious or otherwise of the parent.

I will ask again, what can you show me about the actual reasons they are or might be eligible, but not enrolled?

[TeyshaBlue]

The only data we have is that they are eligible, but not enrolled.

There is abosulutely nothing about the why.

You have assumed that it was the choice, conscious or otherwise of the parent.

I will ask again, what can you show me about the actual reasons they are or might be eligible, but not enrolled?


By the same token, can you show me how the city addresses these reasons (which remained undefined) with their new plan?
Additionally, how are the schools failing to address these reasons?
The data set of unreached students is not a reason unto itself for action.

[CosmicCowboy]

I noted that there is actually a slight expansion of the people that the programs were to be offered, beyond the bare minimium.

A part you neglected to mention, for whatever reason.

Tuition based pre-k programs for kids that don't qualify for free pre-k is hardly a novel concept.

The conversation has been about the kids that already don't use the existing free programs.

[TeyshaBlue]

Going to lunch now. Until then:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/avatar.gif

[Blake]

:nope

Wrong again.

I care far more about getting to enough information to make a decent decision. Please stop making unproven or incorrect assumptions about my motivations.

To be clear:

I do not care about proving you right or wrong. I have actually agreed with you mildly on a couple of points, but have been too busy being a dick to emphasize or expand on that.

You only care about getting to the truth?

wtf is wrong with you

[CosmicCowboy]

The only data we have is that they are eligible, but not enrolled.

There is abosulutely nothing about the why.

You have assumed that it was the choice, conscious or otherwise of the parent.

I will ask again, what can you show me about the actual reasons they are or might be eligible, but not enrolled?

God, how stupid can you be?

The prek4 programs are already available for qualified kids and is FREE. All the parent has to do is sign their kid up and then get them there.

Allegedly there are 2300 kids whose parents are not taking advantage of the ALREADY FREE PROGRAMS BEING OFFERED.

WHY these parents choose not to take advantage of the program is irrelevant.

These 2300 kids are being used as the justification for a new expansive educational bureaucracy in city government.

A NEW free prek4 does NOTHING to address the unwillingness of these parents to take advantage of a free prek4 program.

Those 2300 kids that are currently unserved by the existing program will still be unserved by the new program as long as prek4 is not mandatory and these parents choose not to participate.

[RandomGuy]

The fact that some parents are too fucking selfish and lazy to take advantage of [the pre-K program we currently have is one of my main stated reasons for opposing it].


You have stated this is a fact.

To support this we have so far:


There are approximately 5,700 four-year-old children living in San Antonio who are eligible for State funded Pre-K but currently are not enrolled in a full day Pre-K program. An estimated 2,300 eligible four-year-old children currently are not enrolled in any Pre-K program while 3,400 are enrolled in half-day programs in the City of San Antonio.

If it is there, but there are some lazy shits who can't get their kids into it, then that is one thing.

If it is there, but there are peope who want to get their kids in, but can't, then that is something else entirely.

Did I miss something you posted to provide some reasonable basis to think you are correct about your "fact"?

[RandomGuy]

God, how stupid can you be?

The prek4 programs are already available for qualified kids and is FREE. All the parent has to do is sign their kid up and then get them there.

Allegedly there are 2300 kids whose parents are not taking advantage of the ALREADY FREE PROGRAMS BEING OFFERED.

WHY these parents choose not to take advantage of the program is irrelevant.

These 2300 kids are being used as the justification for a new expansive educational bureaucracy in city government.

A NEW free prek4 does NOTHING to address the unwillingness of these parents to take advantage of a free prek4 program.

Those 2300 kids that are currently unserved by the existing program will still be unserved by the new program as long as prek4 is not mandatory and these parents choose not to participate.

So you have nothing to support your thoery after having been asked repeatedly about it.

Gotcha.

FWIW, I just got off the phone with the lady responsible for the Summary. Nice gal.

Shockingly enough, there is an issue with access, as well as a few other things that seem kind of important to make a decision.

Lunch is up. Gotta get going.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you could fucking read you would already have seen it has been posted.

If you want to claim all these fucking parents are pounding on the fucking door trying to get their kids in pre-k4 and can't then the burden of proof is on you...

you can't because IT ISN'T TRUE!

[TeyshaBlue]

Did the nice gal address the city's plan for access?

[RandomGuy]

You only care about getting to the truth?

wtf is wrong with you

Honestly, if he really is right about the majority of those people just too lazy or refusing, then I would pretty much agree with him. An increase in awareness of existing programs would be warranted.

The truth, as usual, turns out to be a bit less than black and white oversimplification.

argh.... laters.

[TeyshaBlue]

Did the nice gal address the city's plan for access?



http://i39.tinypic.com/29woeqd.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

So you have nothing to support your thoery after having been asked repeatedly about it.

Gotcha.

FWIW, I just got off the phone with the lady responsible for the Summary. Nice gal.

Shockingly enough, there is an issue with access, as well as a few other things that seem kind of important to make a decision.

Lunch is up. Gotta get going.

Thanks in advance for relaying the specifics of these access issues and how this proposed program will address them. Feel free to pitch in with an opinion as to why whatever measures taken to address the access issue must be performed by the city and can not be left to the school districts.

[CosmicCowboy]

Did the nice gal address the city's plan for access?

Of course we are supposed to blindly accept that it will easier to get to access one of only FOUR centers in the whole fucking city instead of getting access at the local neighborhood elementary school around the corner.

[TeyshaBlue]

Thanks in advance for relaying the specifics of these access issues and how this proposed program will address them. Feel free to pitch in with an opinion as to why whatever measures taken to address the access issue must be performed by the city and can not be left to the school districts.

I swear...it was like I was wearing a bbs stealth suit.

[Drachen]

Hey....

Has anyone seen TB?

I haven't seen him post for a while.

[coyotes_geek]

Has anyone seen Teysha lately? Seems like this would be a thread he'd have some good insight into. :p:

[TeyshaBlue]

Hey....

Has anyone seen TB?

I haven't seen him post for a while.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/aldobushesoptly3.gif

[coyotes_geek]

Hey....

Has anyone seen TB?

I haven't seen him post for a while.

Damn you and your superior typing skills. :flipoff

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh, I figured it out. I put myself on ignore.:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

RG just wants to blindly argue with ME Teysha.

Butthurt he is.

[xrayzebra]

CC, Julian is just feathering his nest for a run for statewide office. We need another layer of government in education like we need a hole in our head.

If the citizens of our fair city vote for this then they better get ready for a dedicated school tax at the city level in a few years. You can bet your sweet ass it will be coming down the pike. And then every city councilman in our fair city can legitimately stick his nose into the school politics. Which we are so famous for.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, Julian is just feathering his nest for a run for statewide office. We need another layer of government in education like we need a hole in our head.

If the citizens of our fair city vote for this then they better get ready for a dedicated school tax at the city level in a few years. You can bet your sweet ass it will be coming down the pike. And then every city councilman in our fair city can legitimately stick his nose into the school politics. Which we are so famous for.

Considering just how bad our city council is that is truly a scary thought.

[Drachen]

Butthurt he is.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkNdkuLd1GQ2--Q8HLcZ7CF03LxfDzVIfJ7wSBKVMy1bt-4Zt-s2kJXaY

?

[coyotes_geek]

CC, Julian is just feathering his nest for a run for statewide office. We need another layer of government in education like we need a hole in our head.

Statewide office could be tough for him. He's likeable and articulate, but he's also a democrat in a state where republicans hold every statewide office there is.


If the citizens of our fair city vote for this then they better get ready for a dedicated school tax at the city level in a few years. You can bet your sweet ass it will be coming down the pike. And then every city councilman in our fair city can legitimately stick his nose into the school politics. Which we are so famous for.

If voters pass this, that's it, the city will be capped out on it's sales tax rate. That's the most compelling reason to be against this plan IMHO. There's one bullet left in the sales tax gun and Castro is proposing to use it on a program that would be redundant to what school districts are for.

[xrayzebra]

Statewide office could be tough for him. He's likeable and articulate, but he's also a democrat in a state where republicans hold every statewide office there is.



If voters pass this, that's it, the city will be capped out on it's sales tax rate. That's the most compelling reason to be against this plan IMHO. There's one bullet left in the sales tax gun and Castro is proposing to use it on a program that would be redundant to what school districts are for.

Yeah, it is a Republican state now. But look what is coming down the pike.
And look at Castros twin brother. He is running in a safe district for Congress, unfortunately for me, it is my district. And he will be elected. I am still trying to figure out why Gonzalez is stepping out. But he is a good Democrat.

And about the tax, they will figure out a way to get a tax passed. just mark my word it will happen. It is for the children, don't you know!

[boutons_deux]

XZ, why don't we shutdown your beloved Fort Sam and its guvmit civil servants and spend the money on education?

[xrayzebra]

XZ, why don't we shutdown your beloved Fort Sam and its guvmit civil servants and spend the money on education?

Hey dipship, that is what you have your wonderful first lady for, taking care of the service members and their wife, along with Joe's wifey.

Besides, you don't want a hospital to take care of our members of the military who suffer the wounds of war to keep your communist ass safe.

When are you moving back to Europe? So you can live the good life.

[CosmicCowboy]

XZ, why don't we shutdown your beloved Fort Sam and its guvmit civil servants and spend the money on education?

That's easy.

Defense is a legitimate constitutional role of the Federal Government

Education isn't

[CosmicCowboy]

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkNdkuLd1GQ2--Q8HLcZ7CF03LxfDzVIfJ7wSBKVMy1bt-4Zt-s2kJXaY

?

Good catch!

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/8846987.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

A great open letter from Councilman Soules.


On August 9, 2012 the San Antonio City Council voted on calling a Special Sales Tax Election
to be held on Tuesday, November 6, 2012. The sales tax will fund the "San Antonio Early
Childhood Education Municipal Development Corporation" Below is a transcript of Councilman
Soules remarks.
I want to start by thanking everyone who has dedicated their time, energy and talent to this
endeavor. My thanks to the Brainpower task force, City leaders both past and present, the City
staff, and the many constituents who have weighed in on this subject, both here in person, and
back in the district.
I came into this process with an open mind and firmly believe in supporting education.
I also did a lot of research and met with educators throughout the city. After careful review I
personally am not supportive of this initiative for reasons I will discuss today. However, a lot of
people whose opinion I respect are supportive. I am willing to admit I don’t know it all.
Ultimately I will support letting it go to the voters to decide, but will join Councilwoman Chan
and Councilman Williams in opposing the creation of the Municipal Corporation.
Now that I have said that I will share my concerns for the record.
1) I don’t believe we should be so eager to go it alone vs. working with the State for a long term
solution for early education. The Texas Early Learning Council, is wrapping up a 3 year study
on improving Pre-K in the state ofTexas. I would suggest that it is prudent to at least see their
recommendations before we walk away.
2) Educational Spending on Pre-K through 12
th
grade in San Antonio exceeds $4 billion a year.
This is almost twice COSA’s entire annual budget. To put it in perspective; this $30 million
dollar a year program is like earning $50,000 a year and getting a $350 bonus. It’s nice to
have but it will not dramatically change your life. I would be very cautious in our expectations.
3) While I agree that state funding has been cut this last year, I am not sure that the situation is
as dire as claimed. According to a report issued by the State Comptrollers office, over the last
decade,Texaseducational spending has increased 95%, five times faster than the increases in
enrollment or the rate of inflation.
4) While small when compared to education spending in SA, this program will still cost a qtr. of
a Billion dollars over the next 8 years. In a city with a tight budget, rising costs, $6 billion
dollars of needed road repair and a billion dollars of sidewalk issues identified. We should at
least be debating why PRE-K trumps important basic city needs; especially when it is not our
area of expertise or our primary responsibility.
Regarding the actual program presented today. I have many concerns but will focus on just a
few.
First, I have asked and not received an answer on the current state of Pre K in San Antonio or
how we benchmark vs. the rest of the state and our peer groups around the country. Nor have Ibeen told who is failing to provide quality Pre-K in SA and why. How can we recommend any
program without knowing where we stand today?
Second, there has been a lot of discussion about half day programs being a bad thing. The term
being used is underserved. But the Northeast, Northside school districts and many private
schools rely on half day programs. Somehow they are able to deliver higher performance in
third grade reading than districts offering full day Pre-k programs. How is this possible? We
need to either explain this discrepancy clearly or stop denigrating successful half day programs.
Third, while there are aspects of this plan that are appealing I don’t understand the necessity of
a brick and mortar heavy program. It seems like there is a lot of money dedicated to buildings,
administration, and overhead – but less on the kids. This program is slated to serve half of the
number of kids we said needed to be served just a few weeks ago. Why? Additionally there are
huge unresolved transportation and logistical issues inherent in a centralized program.
Fourth, this program merely shifts children from the school districts already fully funded
program to our new more expensive program. I still do not understand how it addresses the
issue of children who are qualified but whose parents are not taking advantage of current
programs being offered.
Finally, over the last day I have read through all of the supporting documentation related to
today’s vote. Here is what I have learned.
Most folks I speak with are under the assumption that they will be voting specifically on the
program that we have discussed over the last month. That is not the case.
They will actually be voting to Authorize the City to increase the sales tax which will be
administered by a newly formed Municipal Corporation. Who will then have wide latitude to
change, enhance, or develop new programs as defined in Chapter 379A, Texas Local Govt.
Code, also known as the BETTER JOBS ACT.
To put it in layman’s terms, as written today, this proposal will give a new unelected
bureaucracy the wiggle room necessary to alter the program and do what they want without
going back to the voters for approval. There is nothing in the ordinance that requires the
corporation to implement the ideas presented to either council or the public.
As a council, we have spent no time whatsoever discussing both the authority and limitations we
need to put on this bureaucracy. I view this ordinance to be a contract with the voters. Again, I
believe that this program is well intentioned and I applaud the supporters of it for wanting to
improve education.
To restate my opinion I am not personally supportive of this measure. However, I believe the
voters of District 10 are wise enough to make a good decision and deserve to have their voices
heard

[TeyshaBlue]

Fucking BOOM! goes the dynamite.

[RandomGuy]

A great open letter from Councilman Soules.

The Councilman has it right.

I would point out, however, that San Antonio is the only city of any size in Texas that has not maxxed out its constitutionally allowed taxing authority. FWIW.

[RandomGuy]

First, I have asked and not received an answer on the current state of Pre K in San Antonio or
how we benchmark vs. the rest of the state and our peer groups around the country. Nor have Ibeen told who is failing to provide quality Pre-K in SA and why. How can we recommend any
program without knowing where we stand today?

Some of the programs are only half-time, and the offerings vary wildly from school system to school system.

I think the Mayor's office should do a MUCH better job of explaining why it is needed in the first place, for people to make better decisions.

As it is, I'm not altogether convinced of the efficacy, based on my own research.

[CosmicCowboy]

I would also add to his letter that State sales tax receipts are booming because of Eagleford Shale and more money may be available from the state soon.

[Blake]

Thank you Castro for setting us up with this bull shit just so you could pad your stats for the HUD position.

Fucking ass.

[Nbadan]

Thank you Castro for setting us up with this bull shit just so you could pad your stats for the HUD position.

Fucking ass.

Rumor is he may also be first in line to run with Hillary...


Hillary/Castro 2016...can you imagine that?

[Blake]

Rumor is he may also be first in line to run with Hillary...


Hillary/Castro 2016...can you imagine that?

I'd say the chance of that is less than half of one percent. He needs more on the resume.

[boutons_deux]

Thank you Castro for setting us up with this bull shit just so you could pad your stats for the HUD position.

Fucking ass.

what's your SPECIFIC objection to widely proven, endorsed (esp for poor kids) pre-K education?

[TeyshaBlue]

Probably need to get an adult to read this thread to you.

[Blake]

what's your SPECIFIC objection to widely proven, endorsed (esp for poor kids) pre-K education?

^ it's this thinking that got this passed so easily.

I agree with this:


I think Pre-K education has been proven to have a significant positive impact on students.

I also think this should be something the school districts fund (through property taxes), not the city.



it was nothing more than something for Castro to put on his resume.

It's really a genius political move on his part, tbh, that paid off in spades.

[Avante]

Thank you Castro for setting us up with this bull shit just so you could pad your stats for the HUD position.

Fucking ass.

Dude, this is all you do isn't it? Bug bug and bug, wow!

[Blake]

Dude, this is all you do isn't it? Bug bug and bug, wow!

Castro isn't here.

What are you doing in here?

Lol

[TeyshaBlue]

lol Avante ankle biting.