So, he wants to take every...

[Yonivore]

...industry, buy it with taxpayer money, pay off the unions and cronies with taxpayer money, screw legitimate stockholders and non-union employees out of money to which they're entitled and then, run the business into the ground?

Obama: Let's repeat auto industry success (http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/obama-lets-repeat-auto-rescue-with-every-manufacturing-131566.html)

God help us.

[AussieFanKurt]

When you made out I was an idiot for only showing research to support my side of the argument.. why do you do the same?

[George Gervin's Afro]

When you made out I was an idiot for only showing research to support my side of the argument.. why do you do the same?

he doesn't get it.. that's why I put that statement in my signature.... he is truly one the most blindly partisan person that I have ever come across.. so much so he doesn't care about intellectual honesty..he aslo has a hard time with the basics of logical principles..

[coyotes_geek]

Obama's corporate welfare is very popular with the masses.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Yoni
:lol Still pretending Willard and Obama differ in any significant way

[Yonivore]

When you made out I was an idiot for only showing research to support my side of the argument.. why do you do the same?
What research? I posted a story and an opinion.

But, I'd be willing to look at whatever research you'd like to advance that says Obama's nationalizing of General Motors has been anything but an abject failure.

[Yonivore]

he doesn't get it.. that's why I put that statement in my signature.... he is truly one the most blindly partisan person that I have ever come across.. so much so he doesn't care about intellectual honesty..he aslo has a hard time with the basics of logical principles..
Wow! I'm flattered you've dedicated your signature to me. ::smh::

(I have signatures and avatars turned off)

[Yonivore]

Obama's corporate welfare is very popular with the unions.
There, fixed.

[Yonivore]

:lol Yoni
:lol Still pretending Willard and Obama differ in any significant way
I'd be willing to bet Romney won't be nationalizing any industries.

[Clipper Nation]

I'd be willing to bet Romney won't be nationalizing any industries.
Mainly because he'd be too busy destroying them all, laying everybody off, and moving them to countries with sketchy tax and labor laws, tbh....

[Yonivore]

Mainly because he'd be too busy destroying them all, laying everybody off, and moving them to countries with sketchy tax and labor laws, tbh....
Amazing you think the President of the United States should have the capability to lay employees off from private industry.

The employees at Delphi and a few hundred auto dealerships salute you.

As do those at Fisker.

[ElNono]

wow, back to garbage threads...

[ChumpDumper]

Obama's corporate welfare is very popular with the masses.And Republicans.

[Yonivore]

wow, back to garbage threads...
I'm not sure why discussing his idiotic proposal to fuck up the rest of America, like he did General Motors, is a garbage thread but, you're entitled to your opinion.

Besides, when a President screws up things as bad as Obama has, garbage is probably the right term.

[boutons_deux]

Yoni LYING again (it's a medical/genetic condition with right-wingers)

"“I said, I believe in American workers, I believe in this American industry, and now the American auto industry has come roaring back,” he said. “Now I want to do the same thing with manufacturing jobs, not just in the auto industry, but in every industry."

"same thing" doesn't mean buying bankrupt companies, he means OBVIOUSLY just saving and creating US mfr jobs.

This is just like "you didn't build that" with Repugs and other assholes erroneously taking the antecedent of "that" as companies, when he OBVIOUSLY meant the infrastructure "that" allowed those companies to succeed.

[Clipper Nation]

Amazing you think the President of the United States should have the capability to lay employees off from private industry.
When did I ever say that?

[Yonivore]

Mainly because he'd be too busy destroying them all, laying everybody off, and moving them to countries with sketchy tax and labor laws, tbh....
I guess you meant government employees. My mistake.

Besides, I think we're a little heavy on the government side anyway.

[Trill Clinton]

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss87/Bids99/omfg_abe_simpson_in_and_out.gif

[ElNono]

I'm not sure why discussing his idiotic proposal to fuck up the rest of America

:lol there's no such proposal, despite what came into your chain email list

[Yonivore]

:lol there's no such proposal, despite what came into your chain email list
I know Obama's not following the news on General Motors because, he's calling it a success. But, are you not following it either?

If he proposes to do with the rest of American industry what he's done at GM, no thanks.

[ElNono]

I know Obama's not following the news on General Motors because, he's calling it a success.

you sound pretty mad GM has been making money since the restructuring :lol

Tell me more about this chain email claiming Obama plans to "take over" companies crofl

[ElNono]

If he proposes to do with the rest of American industry what he's done at GM, no thanks.

lol

[Yonivore]

Tell me more about this chain email claiming Obama plans to "take over" companies crofl
Well, just this once since you're having trouble navigating to the story linked in the OP.


President Obama, ... bragged about the success of his decision to provide government assistance and said he now wants to see every manufacturing industry come roaring back.

“I said, I believe in American workers, I believe in this American industry, and now the American auto industry has come roaring back,” he said. “Now I want to do the same thing with manufacturing jobs, not just in the auto industry, but in every industry.

“I don’t want those jobs taking root in places like China, I want those jobs taking root in places like Pueblo,” Obama told a crowd gathered for a campaign rally at the Palace of Agriculture at the Colorado State Fairgrounds here.

[ChumpDumper]

lol quote mysteriously cut off before saying what Obama actually called for
He made the remarks while pushing for the renewal of a tax credit for wind energy manufacturing – something Romney opposes – and for the creation of credits for companies who bring jobs home from overseas, as well as the elimination of loopholes for offshoring.Why does yoni hate tax credits for businesses and employing Americans?

[Sense]

Now this is pathetic..

[Yonivore]

you sound pretty mad GM has been making money since the restructuring
You can show a great profit if you do business this way...

The only reason Chrysler and GM are profitable today is because the government allowed them to discharge huge amounts of debt. Vendors, shareholders--including many retirement acount vehicles like mutual funds--were forced to take HUGE losses on their GM stock holdings when the previous version of GM, was for all intents and purpose, dismantled.

Then there's our tax dollars at work...

From Obama's weekly radio address in early 2010:

“It wont be too long before the stock the Treasury is holding in GM could be sold. As essential as it was that we got in I’m glad to see that we’re getting out.”

Two and half years later, we the people still own over 26% of GM.

And, they still owe over $50 billion in TARP bailout money.


Of the top bailout recipients, GM is the biggest laggard, the TARP watchdog says in his latest quarterly report to Congress. Bank of America, Citigroup, Chrysler and Chrysler Financial all have paid off their debt and left the TARP program. Even AIG has paid back more than 75% of what it owes taxpayers.

GM, on the other hand, still owes more than half the $50 billion in federal funds it received when the combination of the recession and its costly union contracts drove it into bankruptcy. And its lending arm, GMAC (now Ally Financial), still owes $14.5 billion.

What's worse, it's not clear that GM actually repaid what it's gotten credit for repaying. Check out this note buried in the inspector's report: "As part of a credit agreement with Treasury, $16.4 billion in TARP funds were placed in an escrow account that GM could access only with Treasury's permission."

As it turns out, GM got Treasury's OK to "repay" more than $6.7 billion "using a portion of the escrow account that had been funded with TARP funds." So GM is merely paying the government back with government money, not money GM is earning selling cars, as the administration has claimed.

Finally, there's the matter of product...which ties in with his over all green industry nonsense...

The Chevy Volt has sucked big time. After pouring tens of millions of dollars into the damn thing, they've sold how many? Someone calculated the cost to tax payers in the mid $100K range -- excluding purchase price.

Like I said, if Obama proposed to do the same for other industries, no thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

Like I said, if Obama proposed to do the same for other industries, no thanks.Well, he didn't -- so your straw thread fails.

[Wild Cobra]

Mainly because he'd be too busy destroying them all, laying everybody off, and moving them to countries with sketchy tax and labor laws, tbh....
Why are you so cynical?

Tell me. If you saw a failing business, and had a chance to make it work, would you without making sure you got profit along the way?

Don't expect me to believe that you would do it with no profit, or losing money yourself.

[ElNono]

Well, he didn't -- so your straw thread fails.

Exactly... garbage thread indeed.

[ElNono]

:blah

crofl mad GM is making money

[Yonivore]

crofl mad GM is making money
On my and the rest of taxpayers' backs? Your damn right I'm mad.

Where would their profit go if they paid back the TARP? Where would their profit go if Obama offloaded our 26%? By the way, am I getting any dividends off that investment? Where would their profit be if government hadn't propped them up, enriched it's union cronies, screwed a bunch of non-union Delphi employees and car dealers around the country?

And, by the way, their profits are falling...

GM Earnings Q2 2012: Profits Fall 41 Percent On Europe, South America Losses. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/02/gm-earnings-q2-2012_n_1732147.html?utm_hp_ref=business)

And, management is squabbling...

GM CEO Akerson Fired Opel Head on Europe Trip, Handelsblatt Says (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-07-16/gm-ceo-akerson-fired-opel-head-on-europe-trip-handelsblatt-says)

And, now, they want to bring the magic of subprime loans to the car industry...

GM Ramps Up Risky Subprime Auto Loans To Drive Sales (http://news.investors.com/article/620090/201207271807/gm-risky-subprime-auto-loans-fuel-sales.htm)

Why would a financially successful and stable company need to resort to subprime loans to sell inventory?

[Wild Cobra]

crofl mad GM is making money
Barely.

You should look at their income statements quarter by quarter.

[ElNono]

On my and the rest of taxpayers' backs? Your damn right I'm mad.

lol the only thing that makes you seething mad is that you can't say they're losing money and pinning THAT on Barry :lmao


Barely.

:cry:cry

[Yonivore]

lol the only thing that makes you seething mad is that you can't say they're losing money and pinning THAT on Barry :lmao
Treasury: U.S. to lose $25 billion on auto bailout (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120813/AUTO01/208130392)

Like I said, they would be losing money if they would pay their bills. Instead, I'm losing money.

Again, if he proposes to do this with the rest of American industry, no thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

Treasury: U.S. to lose $25 billion on auto bailout (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120813/AUTO01/208130392)

Like I said, they would be losing money if they would pay their bills. Instead, I'm losing money.Eh, Iraq cost, what? $800 billion?

Not a peep from you about that -- but translating documents does cost money.


Again, if he proposes to do this with the rest of American industry, no thanks.Again, he doesn't.

[ElNono]

Like I said, they would be losing money if they would pay their bills. Instead, I'm losing money.

stock price != paying bills

The non-sequitur is be pretty evident, but this thread already kicked in on a fallacy, so no surprises there...

[Yonivore]

stock price != paying bills

The non-sequitur is be pretty evident, but this thread already kicked in on a fallacy, so no surprises there...
So, who's losing $25 billion, ElNono?

[ElNono]

So, who's losing $25 billion, ElNono?

You can call them losing, I'll call them investing in turning around an important industry in the country and saving jobs not just on the companies themselves, but on the related businesses.

When can argue on the merits of how it was done, but GM today is a profitable company and that drives you up a wall...

As CD said, I don't hear you bitching about the $800+ billions tossed in Iraq with nothing to show for it.

lol paying bills with your money

[Yonivore]

You can call them losing, I'll call them investing in turning around an important industry in the country and saving jobs not just on the companies themselves, but on the related businesses.
And, our "investment" is losing money and has lost money since it was made...and, it doesn't appear to be turning around.

[ElNono]

And, our "investment" is losing money and has lost money since it was made...and, it doesn't appear to be turning around.

Not necessarily... that $25 billion is merely the stock price difference. It doesn't include the taxes paid by the different companies, employees, sales taxes from the car sales, the unemployment benefits the government would've had to write checks out to, etc. All revenue and savings that wouldn't be there if the industry would not exist anymore.

[TeyshaBlue]

$25 billion? Bargain.

[Wild Cobra]

You can call them losing, I'll call them investing in turning around an important industry in the country and saving jobs not just on the companies themselves, but on the related businesses.

When can argue on the merits of how it was done, but GM today is a profitable company and that drives you up a wall...

As CD said, I don't hear you bitching about the $800+ billions tossed in Iraq with nothing to show for it.

lol paying bills with your money
How many people's jobs are being saved by that $25 billion?

My God...

We need to stop the bailouts. Fix the problems, not keep applying such costly bandages.

As for the war. It's over. The world is a better place. It had tremendous support going into it, and you can't just stop and pull out like we did in Viet Nam when the public grows tired of what they started.

Why are we still in Afghanistan?

Why are we spending to bring down other government?

[TeyshaBlue]

How many people's jobs are being saved by that $25 billion?



Somewhere around 1 million.

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Detroit-auto-bailout/2012/02/15/id/429591

[TeyshaBlue]

Like I said, 25 billion is a bargain.

[boutons_deux]

Somewhere around 1 million.

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Detroit-auto-bailout/2012/02/15/id/429591

newsmax :lol

TB :lol

what next, Fox? :lol

WND? :lol

[ElNono]

How many people's jobs are being saved by that $25 billion?

Here:
http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm/

The number units are in thousands (ie: where it shows 1, it means 1,000).

I couldn't find a breakdown on a per-company basis, but with GM being one of the top car makers in the world, it's not a stretch to say it would've had a major impact. We're talking millions of jobs.

[ElNono]

Somewhere around 1 million.

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/Romney-Detroit-auto-bailout/2012/02/15/id/429591

I know the industry as a whole employs about 6 million jobs (per here: http://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iagauto.htm/). Would be surprised GM is only 1/6 of that.

[TeyshaBlue]

newsmax :lol

TB :lol

what next, Fox? :lol

WND? :lol

It was quoting Bob Lutz, dumbass.


:facepalm

[TeyshaBlue]

Stop stalking me!:cry

[TeyshaBlue]

The bot-approved NYT pegs it north of 500,000

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/10/business/when-debating-the-auto-bailout-consider-lehmans-fate.html?pagewanted=all

[TeyshaBlue]

Another bot-approved site pegs it at 2.5 million

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/340648/gm_bailout_saved_millions_of_jobs_and_republicans_ hate_it/


Also ignores the initial bailout was Bush's baby.

lol alternet

[ElNono]

Yeah, it's difficult to find a breakdown by individual companies, seeing some of those jobs probably overlap. There's no doubt though it was a shitload of jobs.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yeah, it's difficult to find a breakdown by individual companies, seeing some of those jobs probably overlap. There's no doubt though it was a shitload of jobs.

It would been a cascading failure from GM to it's halo of suppliers.

[Wild Cobra]

GM could have restructured without the bailout money.