Obama's response to Ryan tonight.

[CosmicCowboy]

At the fundraiser, Obama highlighted private-sector job growth — which has been painfully slow, but steady --- and policies like his rescue of the auto industry, but admitted "we've got a long way to go."
"All of us know friends, neighbors, family members who are still out of work or whose homes are still underwater," he said. "Too many folks are still burdened by enormous college debt. Too many folks still don't have a sense that tomorrow will be better than today."
"So the question in this election is: Which way do we go?" Obama said."Do we go forward towards a new vision of an America in which prosperity is shared, or do we go backward?"

[CosmicCowboy]

There ya go.

Thats your Presidents plan.

[ElNono]

You need to add the preface, IMO... otherwise it has no context...

"They have tried to sell us this trickle-down fairy dust before, and guess what? It didn't work"

[baseline bum]

Uncle Tom doesn't mean it.

[Th'Pusher]

Do you have an issue with prosperity being shared? Do ou not share your prosperity with your employees?

[Clipper Nation]

Neither of them have a good economic plan... The Plan to Restore America is what's necessary, tbh...

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/

[ElNono]

That said, Barry been signing off the tax breaks every year too...

[spursncowboys]

Do you have an issue with prosperity being shared? Do ou not share your prosperity with your employees?

Him sharing with his employees is a little different than the govt. taking from one and giving to another

[Th'Pusher]

Him sharing with his employees is a little different than the govt. taking from one and giving to another

What policy has Obama introduced to take from CC and give to "another"?

[ElNono]

Gutting Medicare and handing it to military contractors isn't "taking from one and giving to another"?

Both parties want to control who gets the "prosperity", they just have different targets...

[SnakeBoy]

Neither of them have a good economic plan... The Plan to Restore America is what's necessary, tbh...

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/

I wish you paulbots would shut the fuck up already.

[mercos]

Gutting Medicare and handing it to military contractors isn't "taking from one and giving to another"?

Both parties want to control who gets the "prosperity", they just have different targets...

QFT. As if Republicans have not been trying to redistribute wealth upwards for the last 30 years. Lol at those that think it is a coincidence that income distribution has gone to shit during the supply side era.

[Clipper Nation]

:cry I wish you liberty-loving patriots would stop exposing our hypocrisy :cry

[ElNono]

QFT. As if Republicans have not been trying to redistribute wealth upwards for the last 30 years. Lol at those that think it is a coincidence that income distribution has gone to shit during the supply side era.

well, not if you're at the very top, tbqh... that said, it hasn't stopped with Barry, which mean this isn't strictly a problem with republicans...

[Spurminator]

For his part, Obama has done nothing to clarify this for people, but the idea of "shared prosperity" too often seems to be seen as taking cash from the rich and giving cash to the poor.

What shared prosperity should mean is that the wealthiest nation on earth should have the best education system, the best health care, the best infrastructure (including the best public transportation, technology, public areas, etc.) while still giving those who have worked for their success the opportunity to enjoy the benefits of that success.

Republican politicians are fine with a good number of their voters thinking it means the government is taking your money to give to lazy immigrants, and frankly, Democrat politicians seem to be fine with a good number of their voters thinking they're going to get that money from the government. It's dumbed down politics as usual and instead of being insulted by it, we just play along.

[ElNono]

^ you mean Barry won't pay my rent?

[SnakeBoy]

well, not if you're at the very top, tbqh... that said, it hasn't stopped with Barry, which mean this isn't strictly a problem with republicans...

It's more fo a problem with americans than politicians. Why is it surprising that when most americans choose to spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow that wealth tends to accumulate with those that don't spend all their money.

[ElNono]

It's more fo a problem with americans than politicians. Why is it surprising that when most americans choose to spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow that wealth tends to accumulate with those that don't spend all their money.

That's a nice tale, but it's not even remotely true, unless you're arguing that 99.5% or so of Americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow"... I know I'm not in that block and I'm not in the 0.5% or so whose share of the pie keeps steadily increasing...

Now, I don't have a problem with rich people being rich or getting richer... I have a problem with giving breaks to these guys with money we don't have under the ruse they'll generate jobs and "trickle down" the "prosperity" when that doesn't happen and their share keeps on growing. Then when the debt gets out of control, the "fix" is to gut the safety-net I've been chipping into. That's picking winners and losers too.

[SnakeBoy]

That's a nice tale, but it's not even remotely true, unless you're arguing that 99.5% or so of Americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow"... I know I'm not in that block and I'm not in the 0.5% or so whose share of the pie keeps steadily increasing...

Now, I don't have a problem with rich people being rich or getting richer... I have a problem with giving breaks to these guys with money we don't have under the ruse they'll generate jobs and "trickle down" the "prosperity" when that doesn't happen and their share keeps on growing. Then when the debt gets out of control, the "fix" is to gut the safety-net I've been chipping into. That's picking winners and losers too.



http://www.translationdirectory.com/images_articles/economics/us_household_debt.jpg

[ElNono]

http://www.translationdirectory.com/images_articles/economics/us_household_debt.jpg


That's a nice tale, but it's not even remotely true, unless you're arguing that 99.5% or so of Americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow"...

[SnakeBoy]

That's a nice tale, but it's not even remotely true, unless you're arguing that 99.5% or so of Americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow"... I know I'm not in that block and I'm not in the 0.5% or so whose share of the pie keeps steadily increasing...


Well I guess I don't understand what it is you're disagreeing with me on. I'm arguing that most americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow". You seem to be thinking that only the .5% at the top are seeing their share of the pie increasing and that's not true. I'm not in the top .5% and my wealth grows every year. If you are not spending every penny you make then why isn't your wealth growing?

[ElNono]

The largest portion of household debt is mortgage...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/Household%20Debt%207.31.09.jpg

At least real estate is an actual asset... so people are putting money trying to build an asset... actual consumer spending has been largely down...

http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/U.S.-Household-Debt-Holds-Steady-in-2011-Q1.jpg

[SnakeBoy]

actual consumer spending has been largely down...


Yeah since the financial crash. Look at the years leading up to it. Americans have to take some responsibly for their own actions.

[ElNono]

Well I guess I don't understand what it is you're disagreeing with me on. I'm arguing that most americans "spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow". You seem to be thinking that only the .5% at the top are seeing their share of the pie increasing and that's not true. I'm not in the top .5% and my wealth grows every year. If you are not spending every penny you make then why isn't your wealth growing?

I'm saying the top 0.5%-1% are seeing they share of the wealth pie increase much more rapidly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth#In_the_United_States).

In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%.

Financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.

However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%.

The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the 1% and the 99%.

During the economic expansion between 2002 and 2007, the income of the top 1% grew 10 times faster than the income of the bottom 90%. In this period 66% of total income gains went to the 1%, who in 2007 had a larger share of total income than at any time since 1928.




Too much or too little concentration of wealth kills the economy. This should be fairly evident.... if anything the "trickle down" is creating jobs in India, China, etc...

[ElNono]

Yeah since the financial crash. Look at the years leading up to it. Americans have to take some responsibly for their own actions.

But under that rationale, the distribution should be going back down... it isn't. The top just keep getting more and more of the share... like I said, it's a nice tale, but "trickling down" it isn't...

[mercos]

Consumers had to spend every dime in the time before the recession because the cost of everything went up, and their salaries stayed the same. Some did so irresponsibly, sure, but you are ignoring the fact that those of the top took more of the pie for themselves. It is a fact that CEO pay went up tremendously in the past 30 years, while worker pay has been stagnant.

[SnakeBoy]

Consumers had to spend every dime in the time before the recession because the cost of everything went up, and their salaries stayed the same.

LOL yeah they just had to buy flat screen tv's, new cars, take on interest only mortgages on houses they couldn't afford. They had to cause the man was keepin em down.

[ElNono]

LOL yeah they just had to buy flat screen tv's, new cars, take on interest only mortagages on houses they couldn't afford. The had to cause the man was keepin em down.

How many people got into mortgages they couldn't afford? Give me a percentage. 80% of Americans? That just doesn't add up.

I don't disagree that some amount of people were reckless (and they need to bear responsibility for it), but it's nowhere near what you see the distribution shifting...

[mercos]

LOL yeah they just had to buy flat screen tv's, new cars, take on interest only mortgages on houses they couldn't afford. They had to cause the man was keepin em down.

No, they didn't have to buy that, and a lot did not in fact do so. A lot of people went broke trying to pay medical bills. In fact, that is the cause of most non-business bankruptcies in this country. Plenty of folks are also going broke trying to pay for skyrocketing food and gas prices. Despite what the conservative media likes to spout, not everyone is out spending frivolously and charging up dozens of credit cards. Most just want to make an honest living and get by. Stagnant wages make that extremely difficult.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Romney's 'plan' is the typical cliche GOP platform.

flat tax
deregulation of banking industry
limit SEC oversight of corporate boards
NAFTA version of 'free trade' of everyone not China, NK and Iran
gut the clean air act
regulate labor fundraising
spending cuts on everything but baby boomer entitlements and defense
increase defense spending

I agree that Obama is completely ineffective and ultimately a pandering cliche politician but Obama is not far off in his comments. This is the same failed bullshit that Gram, Clinton and Bush pushed on us.

Its too bad that the US electorate is too stupid to actually scrutinize policy. they are too interested in looking at photos of Ryan bowhunting.

[SnakeBoy]

How many people got into mortgages they couldn't afford? Give me a percentage. 80% of Americans? That just doesn't add up.



Well 20% of loans in '06 were subprime. 30% of all mortages were ARM's.

I don't know the exact number of people who bought more than they could afford versus those who were victims of predatory lending but I don't think it's at all out of line to say that americans in general were reckless financially leading up to the meltdown.

[SnakeBoy]

Despite what the conservative media likes to spout, not everyone is out spending frivolously and charging up dozens of credit cards.

Most of the people I know were and some still are.

[Jacob1983]

LMAO Barry

Still trying to convince people that he isn't like Bush and that he hasn't served a 3rd term of Bush.

[Wild Cobra]

There ya go.

Thats your Presidents plan.
Yes.

I think he's disappointed we aren't going backwards fast enough.

[Wild Cobra]

What policy has Obama introduced to take from CC and give to "another"?
These huge deficits are steeling from our progeny.

[ElNono]

Well 20% of loans in '06 were subprime. 30% of all mortages were ARM's.

I don't know the exact number of people who bought more than they could afford versus those who were victims of predatory lending but I don't think it's at all out of line to say that americans in general were reckless financially leading up to the meltdown.

It's actually easier to calculate. According to Pew (http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Subprime_mortgages/defaulting_on_the_dream.pdf), 1 in 33 americans will lose their houses due to subprime loans made between 2005-2006.

That's 3% of "people that got into mortgages they couldn't afford"

[Sense]

http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif

[The Reckoning]

bush is going to have 6-8 terms. those are da fax.

[boutons_deux]

That said, Barry been signing off the tax breaks every year too...

His plan to raise tax from 35% to a horribly punitive, consfiscatory 39% for the $250K+ doesn't have a chance. Guess who is anti-sharing?

[boutons_deux]

Yeah since the financial crash. Look at the years leading up to it. Americans have to take some responsibly for their own actions.

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders mailing out Bs of credit cards to snare people in easy (late) credit traps with 24% interest?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving 1st, 2nd, 3rd mortgages to unqualified people?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving students, esp vets, at for-profit scam colleges $100Bs in tax-payer guaranteed loans where 50% of the students drop out, or end up with non-transferrable credit and employer-ridiculed diplomas?

You right-winger criminalize ONLY the individuals, (non-producers as Yoni deNIGRAtes them) NEVER the corporations that prey on the citizens.

[coyotes_geek]

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders mailing out Bs of credit cards to snare people in easy (late) credit traps with 24% interest?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving 1st, 2nd, 3rd mortgages to unqualified people?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving students, esp vets, at for-profit scam colleges $100Bs in tax-payer guaranteed loans where 50% of the students drop out, or end up with non-transferrable credit and employer-ridiculed diplomas?

You right-winger criminalize ONLY the individuals, (non-producers as Yoni deNIGRAtes them) NEVER the corporations that prey on the citizens.

Lenders didn't make people fill out the credit card applications and carry balances on those cards. Lenders didn't force people into taking out student loans against their will. Lenders didn't make anyone drop out of college. Individuals are 100% responsible for their own finances. Period, end of story.

[Clipper Nation]

The finger REALLY needs to be pointed at the Federal Reserve, whose juicing of the interest rates created a period of false prosperity, which allowed predatory lenders to thrive off consumers' greater willingness to take on risky investments, tbh....

[SnakeBoy]

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders mailing out Bs of credit cards to snare people in easy (late) credit traps with 24% interest?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving 1st, 2nd, 3rd mortgages to unqualified people?

yes, but why don't you mention the lenders giving students, esp vets, at for-profit scam colleges $100Bs in tax-payer guaranteed loans where 50% of the students drop out, or end up with non-transferrable credit and employer-ridiculed diplomas?

You right-winger criminalize ONLY the individuals, (non-producers as Yoni deNIGRAtes them) NEVER the corporations that prey on the citizens.

I did mention predatory lending. Saying Americans bear responsibility for their own actions is not saying that the financial industry bears no responsibility.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm saying the top 0.5%-1% are seeing they share of the wealth pie increase much more rapidly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth#In_the_United_States).

In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%.

Financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.

However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%.

The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the 1% and the 99%.

During the economic expansion between 2002 and 2007, the income of the top 1% grew 10 times faster than the income of the bottom 90%. In this period 66% of total income gains went to the 1%, who in 2007 had a larger share of total income than at any time since 1928.




Too much or too little concentration of wealth kills the economy. This should be fairly evident.... if anything the "trickle down" is creating jobs in India, China, etc...

How is wealth defined in these stats? Honest question.

[George Gervin's Afro]

What policy has Obama introduced to take from CC and give to "another"?

[ElNono]

How is wealth defined in these stats? Honest question.

Hi Teysha. While there's 2 or 3 articles linked to those numbers, the Forbes one links to a source which I think has what you're looking for, what defines wealth and also financial wealth:

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

[LnGrrrR]

It's more fo a problem with americans than politicians. Why is it surprising that when most americans choose to spend every penny they make plus every penny they can borrow that wealth tends to accumulate with those that don't spend all their money.

Snakeboy, why do you think America just went spend-crazy all of a sudden? Do you think the entire character of America changed in a generation?

[Winehole23]

Do you think the entire character of America changed in a generation?Entirely, no. Drastically, yes.

[TeyshaBlue]

Hi Teysha. While there's 2 or 3 articles linked to those numbers, the Forbes one links to a source which I think has what you're looking for, what defines wealth and also financial wealth:

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Thanks EN!:toast

[LnGrrrR]

Entirely, no. Drastically, yes.

Hmm interesting. Any ideas why? (Coming from this generation for the most part, I don't have a lot to reference.)

[SnakeBoy]

Snakeboy, why do you think America just went spend-crazy all of a sudden? Do you think the entire character of America changed in a generation?

I don't think it was "all of a sudden". The character of America began changing into one of excessive consumerism with the boomers and here we are today.

I like to think we are beginning to reject the consumerism lifestyle but maybe it's just because I listen to Dave Ramsey's show most days and I'm fooling myself.

[LnGrrrR]

I don't think it was "all of a sudden". The character of America began changing into one of excessive consumerism with the boomers and here we are today.

I like to think we are beginning to reject the consumerism lifestyle but maybe it's just because I listen to Dave Ramsey's show most days and I'm fooling myself.

I don't think that our generation will have much of a choice Snakeboy, as if we don't start saving we'll all be dead due to explosive health care costs. :lol

[SnakeBoy]

I don't think that our generation will have much of a choice Snakeboy

That's probably true. Maybe it isn't right to say America's character changed since that implies it was something static before. I would guess that plenty of people in the 30's were criticizing how people partied during the roaring 20's.