I cant believe what Im hearing...

[ICE3000]

on other boards people are actually saying K.G is better than T.D...they are pullin everything out under the sun to discredit our guys can somebody tell me WHY ALL THE HATE and WHAT DO THE SPURS HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT STOP!

[Horry For 3!]

Because the Spurs are winners and their teams are not.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

That's a tough call. TD has had the luxury of playing with DR and the likes of Ginobli.

Can't we just say that both are great players?

[duncan_21]

I think it's a legitimate argument. If you go stats of this season kg wins. However from the limited games i've seen of kg he's not a true scorer like duncan is.

Garnett's alot like drob. He's athletic has a solid jumper get's alot of points off of putbacks and working within the offense. Duncan can go one on one in the post and usually score on anyone.

However kg is a better blocker and passer.

If kg and td swapped teams I wonder if both teams would be better, worse, or the same. You can't discredit kg because he hasn't won a title. Look at the selfish players he has and the unselfish players that td has. However it makes you wonder why billups or marbury wouldn't stay with him and have a magic-kareem situation.

[ICE3000]

That's a tough call. TD has had the luxury of playing with DR and the likes of Ginobli.

Can't we just say that both are great players?

Robinson was more of a mentor and a good role player durin his time wit Timmy and Im tired of all this shit about Duncan havin a better suppoting cast... its not his fault the Spurs have a great front office with SKILLS when it comes to scouting and puttin together a good team! Remember I dont ever recall MANU or T.Parker bein lottery picks every team in the legue had the chance to pick em up but they passed it up... on paper the T-WOLVES startin line-up has always been =or> than the spurs line-up but yet KG still gets a pass for underacheiving... why hasnt anybody ?ed his leadership? I mean the guy has been out of the first round an amazin ONE time and people have the nerve to make excuses for him while TD has one bad series and people want to say his legacy is tarnashed... it seems almost that TD and the SPURS have to play perfect basketball b/c everybody is out to get them and I just dont understand it

[Dre_7]

Ill say this, KG is a better athlete then Tim Duncan. But, I think Tim Duncan is a better basketball player!

[mcornelio]

hes just greedy i believe... i would gradly take a paycut to have some good role players if i where him... washed up spreewell and et just wont cut it

[word]

The problem with KG is he's all about KG. Just another highschool player that has no head on his shoulders. Kobe, KG, LeBron....whatever.

[word]

I'll add that since the Jordan years their has been this desire to have another MJ and 'pluck 'em' out of highschool to reap the gold. It hasn't payed off yet and all of the above would have been better off going through the NCAA, imho. Minnesota started that crap and it's justice they don't reap the rewards from it.

[50 & 21]

"The problem with KG is he's all about KG. Just another highschool player that has no head on his shoulders. Kobe, KG, LeBron....whatever."

WORD, that was sick .......and I loved it!

[50 & 21]

"I'll add that since the Jordan years their has been this desire to have another MJ and 'pluck 'em' out of highschool to reap the gold. It hasn't payed off yet and all of the above would have been better off going through the NCAA, imho. Minnesota started that crap and it's justice they don't reap the rewards from it."

You did it again ....... yes!

[SouthernFried]

I'll add that since the Jordan years their has been this desire to have another MJ and 'pluck 'em' out of highschool to reap the gold. It hasn't payed off yet and all of the above would have been better off going through the NCAA, imho. Minnesota started that crap and it's justice they don't reap the rewards from it.

Excellent take.

[sickdsm]

hes just greedy i believe... i would gradly take a paycut to have some good role players if i where him... washed up spreewell and et just wont cut it


YOUR FUCKING RETARDED!!!!!



KG took the MAXIMUM pay cut he could, idiot.

[JamStone]

I think arguments like who is a better player is a subjective thing, and people are entitled to their respective opinions. Problem with comparing individual players is that basketball is a TEAM sport.

Kevin Garnett might be better. He's likely a better athlete. It's arguable that he's a more versatile defender. He is generally regarded as a better shooter. He's at least AS FIERCE a rebounder.

Tim Duncan is a better post player. He's a better "team" defender.

But, it's hard to argue that Tim isn't more of a winner. But, again, does winning championships necessarily mean a player is "better" than another. No, because it takes a WHOLE TEAM to win a championship. Without Coach Pop, David Robinson, Sean Elliot, Mario Elie, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, could Tim have won championships? Probably not. If KG had those players and coaches, would he have won championships? Don't know.

The argument is valid, but whatever side you take, it's complete conjecture.

Tim and KG are both great basketball players. If you ask me, both are headed to the hall of fame. If you can also use winning championships as a barometer, Tim Duncan has the edge. If based on pure athletic skill and talent, KG might have it.

But, is it really worth arguing? They're both phenomenal.

[mrcoon29]

its not his fault the Spurs have a great front office with SKILLS when it comes to scouting and puttin together a good team! Remember I dont ever recall MANU or T.Parker bein lottery picks every team in the legue had the chance to pick em up but they passed it up... on paper the T-WOLVES startin line-up has always been =or> than the spurs line-up but yet KG still gets a pass for underacheiving... why hasnt anybody ?ed his leadership? I mean the guy has been out of the first round an amazin ONE time and people have the nerve to make excuses for him while TD has one bad series and people want to say his legacy is tarnashed... it seems almost that TD and the SPURS have to play perfect basketball b/c everybody is out to get them and I just dont understand it

Word. I'm totally confused about how KG gets these passes year after year. Barkley is the only one to have said a few words publicly about KG not getting it done, if I remember correctly.

[sickdsm]

Robinson was more of a mentor and a good role player durin his time wit Timmy and Im tired of all this shit about Duncan havin a better suppoting cast... its not his fault the Spurs have a great front office with SKILLS when it comes to scouting and puttin together a good team! Remember I dont ever recall MANU or T.Parker bein lottery picks every team in the legue had the chance to pick em up but they passed it up... on paper the T-WOLVES startin line-up has always been =or> than the spurs line-up but yet KG still gets a pass for underacheiving... why hasnt anybody ?ed his leadership? I mean the guy has been out of the first round an amazin ONE time and people have the nerve to make excuses for him while TD has one bad series and people want to say his legacy is tarnashed... it seems almost that TD and the SPURS have to play perfect basketball b/c everybody is out to get them and I just dont understand it


On one hand you say it isn't tims fault for having a legitamate FO, no one is saying that. It DOES mean he has better players around him. Name me one year where the wolves had a better team on paper, this year it was supposed to be even but let me take you back two years ago. Same cast and we weren't even supposed to contend. They OVERACHIEVE last year and when spree and co start crapping out there supposed to be great, right?

Name me one starter who has excelled elsewhere. Peeler? Is he even going to be in the league next year? Do you realize how long he was our starter? Name me one guy that played tough d that played in MN? Bobby wasn't a scorer like flip wanted, same with Billups. Our best all around two guards, one dies in his prime and one has heart surgery.


it seems almost that TD and the SPURS have to play perfect basketball b/c everybody is out to get them and I just dont understand it.


Tim HARDLY played perfect this series. He tried to single handedly give away game 5. You have it backwards, KG has to play perfect. It doesn't matter to idiots like you that opposing PGs and SG's for years have had free reign to the basket. Flip insists on Zone defense. The dude could put up 50/30/10 but it wouldn't matter because the TEAM doesn't get it done.

[word]

Garnett is more phyisically talented than Duncan. Of that I have nooooooo doubt. The problem is how he approaches the game and of course, the Spurs front office and coach is 100x what the T-pups is.

Garnett has never been well coached. EVER !!! That is one player right there that would have benefited immeasurably with a coach K, for example. Instead he got those H-shiit coaches in Minnesota.

Dont' believe me ? You're saying KG had all the skills he needed from highschool to go into the NBA ?

At least Kobe got Phil Jackson and that's been what saved him and what props did he give Phil Jackson ? None. In fact Kobe single handedly dismantled a dynasty.

The diff between Kobe and Shaq....pssst...Shaq doesn't really BELIEVE what he's saying...

So being a talented player does not equal being a great player. That's why KG isn't who he could be. And that, my friends, is coaching.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Like I said, can't we call just call them great players and be done with it? Why does one have to better than the other?

[sickdsm]

The only coach he ever had was Flip.

People will find out in two years how KG made flip the big name he is now, not the other way around.

I think the only thing holding KG back is his scoring. He's not that great of a scorer. I attribute that to coaching as he never drives and dunks like he did when he came into the L. God knows hes faster than 99 percent of the PFs in the leage.

KG is the best rebounder in the league by far. I have no problem pointing out the obvious that tim is a better scorer, why is it hard for people to admit that KG is a much better rebounder?

There better versions of AK and Zach.

[E20]

I'll give props to KG,

he's athletic and he gots a knack for the game but, Tim Duncan has the better basketball brain. He knows how to handle himself and his teammates and focuses on all the aspects of his game to get jobs done.

[word]

What do you mean, the only coach he ever had was Flip Saunders ? Flip was a so-so coach with no real success behind him. You're right, KG made Flip. Phil Saunders is a nobody. He's the DEFINITION of a nobody coach that did NO THING at Minnesota.

Flips bio:
Saunders came to Minnesota after seven productive seasons as a head coach in the CBA, where he ranks second with 253 career victories. He began his CBA career in 1988-89 with the Rapid City (S.D.) Thrillers, then moved to the LaCrosse (Wis.) Catbirds for five seasons (1989-94) before coaching in 1994-95 with the Sioux Falls Skyforce. He also served as general manager (1991-93) and team president (1991-94) of the Catbirds. Saunders' impressive CBA tenure included seven consecutive seasons of 30 or more victories, two CBA championships (1990, 1992), two CBA Coach of the Year honors (1989, 1992) and 23 CBA-to-NBA player promotions.

Saunders began his coaching career at Golden Valley Lutheran College where he compiled a 92-13 record, including a perfect 56-0 mark at home, in four seasons. In 1981, he became an assistant coach at his alma mater, Minnesota, and helped guide the Golden Gophers to the Big Ten championship that season. After five seasons at Minnesota, he became an assistant coach at the University of Tulsa where he worked for two seasons before heading to the pro ranks.

Saunders was an All-America basketball player at Cuyahoga Heights High School in Cleveland. In his senior season, 1973, he was named Ohio's Class A High School Basketball Player of the Year, posting a state-leading average of 32.0 points per game. At Minnesota he started 101 of his 103 career contests and as a senior teamed with McHale, the Timberwolves' vice president of basketball operations, to lead the Gophers to a school-best 24-3 record.

Like I said, KG has never been coached.

I'll add that the T-wolves are one of the wackiest organizations in the NBA, if not THE wackiest.

Flip was a friend of McHale and that's the ONLY reason he even coached a single game in the NBA. PERIOD.

[sickdsm]

No shit sherlock. If you'd been around the past few years actually reading you'd know i've always hated Flip with a passion.

[word]

My apologies. New here. I lived in Minnesota when they got the T-wolves and the first draft they could have had Shaq but ended up with Lightfoot...

When Flip was named the coach ...jaws dropped. On a sports level, I've never been soooooo glad to get out of a place than the Twin Cities. Easily the most sports illiterate town in the US. They are quite simply, bizarre.

[CalsonicKansei]

I see KG as David Robinson was back in 1995. Robinson was damn good and led the league in scoring but never had a good supporting cast except Elliot and Johnson, same with KG, good player just not good teammates. What KG needs to do is come down to S.A and win some championships. In other words he needs another big man who can score like T.D or someone almost like him.

[lordswing]

I thought Trent Hassell is it? Thought he was supposed to be your defensive presence. And yeh, I blame the Wolves front office. They've gotten some of the biggest busts ever, overpaying for Kandi, Spree and Cassell, not to mention setting them back after they got caught with their pants on drafting that Johnson guy?? Nothing goes right for them, KG can't catch any breaks.

[ChumpDumper]

KG took the MAXIMUM pay cut he could, idiot.He's playing for the minimum?

[TOP-CHERRY]

You guys gotta stop arguing with trolls or looking in other team forums. :rolleyes

Let them sulk in their jealousy. Let them be. Let them say Wally is better than Duncan, for all I care. :lol
We all know who's better, and the fact that our team JUST PROVED IT TO EVERYONE is enough crow for them to eat.

Enjoy that our boys won another championship. Go out, celebrate, party... cause we'll have to wait a whole 'nother year to do it again. ;)

[Sense]

Duncan>KG

KG simply doesn't know how to win, and that's why he's no champion..

He has to make the players around him better and he never has.. instead he goes for scoring n stats n shit..

BTW, he's not a better blocker than Duncan.

The Spurs have a better team around Duncan, but look at these guys... Ginobili barely made it out of the draft, and parker out of the first round... Duncan made them what they are today and I really doubt KG would've done the same.

btw..


On that "YOUR A RETARD" comment... isn't it You're a RETARD? RETARD?

[dn0]

As much as I like KG , he has no post game and that is a must if you want to survive in the playoffs when the team is built around you. Fade away jumpers are simply not enough.

[word]

Get OUT !!! Your guards MAKE your PF's.

[TDfan2007]

This should settle the debate:

Scoring: Tim is a much better post player than Kevin and is vertually ungaurdable one on one on the block or left wing and his bank shot is money. he can also consistently hit open jumpers. KG has a much better jumper than Tim but he relies too much on his fadaway turnaround jumper that he can't hit over defenders as tall or taller than him (he shot 31% against the Spurs this season).
Edge: Tim

Passing: KG averaged more than twice as many assists as Tim during the regular season. A lot of it is because of the offense of the two teams. Tim is excellent at passing out of double teams and KG is excellent and finding the cutter.
Edge: Tie

Rebounding: Because of his longer arms KG can easily get to any miss. While Tim is an excellent rebounder this category is no contest.
Edge: KG

Defense: Tim is a much better shot blocker than KG, his timing is much better and he averaged one whole block more than KG during the regular season. Tim is a much better team defender, he always comes out on the pick and roll and often times cleans up his peremeter defender's mistakes by coming over and swatting the oposing player's shot away. KG is better at playing the passing lanes due to his athleticism and is more mobile than Tim on defense.
Edge: Tim

Intangibles: Tim is much better in the clutch. He's hit a bunch of Game winners in his career and led the Spurs in their game 7 finals victory. KG has led his team past the 1st round only once (He faced Tim in 2 of his 1st round exits and was outplayed). KG has come up short in crunch time countless times. Tim has 3 rings to KG's 0.

Edge: Tim

Overall edge: Tim

[Warlord23]

Given a choice between the two, Tim is the one that every coach/GM would want. Simply because it is a lot easier to build a system around TD than KG.

Duncan is a better shotblocker and post defender, whereas KG is a better perimter defender, likes to roam the passing lanes .. both are good help defenders. But since the in Spurs' system the perimeter defenders funnel the playmakers towards the shot-blockers in the paint. KG's team hasn't been able to build a solid defensive system around him ... partly because KG's skills (quick feet, ability to shadow people on the perimeter) are not the ideal skills to build a defensive system around ... he is IMO a small forward trapped in a PF role

Similarly on the offensive end, Duncan is a better post player while KG has a better jumper and a good perimeter game. But the Spurs have the right system to utilize Duncan's skills. Duncan in the low post demands double teams against almost all the teams in the league (DET was an exception) .. and this opens up opportunities for our 3 point shooters .. Duncan also has more moves in the post ... defenders are kept off-balance most of the time, get into foul trouble etc ... the other offensive duty Duncan has is to execute the screen and roll ... which he's pretty good at

KG might be more athletic and equally talented, but his skills are not as suited, as Duncan's, to build a solid team around.

[ZStomp]

on other boards people are actually saying K.G is better than T.D...they are pullin everything out under the sun to discredit our guys can somebody tell me WHY ALL THE HATE and WHAT DO THE SPURS HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT STOP!

Oh my God!?! Why do you care what other people say?? Honestly..why?

[whottt]

Duncan has definitely had a better supporting cast than KG...but KG has had some damn good supporting casts in some years...

But that doesn't excuse KG's failure to make the post season this year in a league where over half the teams make the playoffs...

And don't compare KG to DRob either...Drob never missed the playoffs, in fact he never finished lower than second in the division...and he had some really bad teams in some years.

Stats are great but if they aren't backed by winning in the regular season then they don't mean much when you are talking about franchise players..

I am not saying Duncan and DRob are better than KG because they have rings...neither of them is good enough to win a title by themselves...in fact no player is...but make the playoffs? A truely great franchise player gets that done in the era of 16 playoff teams.

KG failing to make the playoffs this year is a huge blackmark on his career...and his team was talented this year, it was the same team that had the best record in the West last year with maybe one or 2 injuries..that's not a good enough excuse...I mean maybe they weren't good enough to be a title contender...but there is zero excuse for failing to make the playoffs...especially with as much experience as he has. It counts against him...and it should. He should make any team he is on a playoff team...

KG is a great player...but he's not a great franchise player IMO.