1983 vs. 2004 NFL QB class

[DeadlyDynasty]

1983:

John Elway
Dan Marino
Jim Kelly

Ken O'Brien and Tony Eason had good years, but ultimately never panned out.


2004:

Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Philip Rivers

Matt Schaub

lol JP Losman


2004 still has plenty of years left and they've already accomplished quite a lot--even if they aren't the natural passers that the 1983 class were.

Is 1983 still the Gold Standard or has/will 2004 surpass them?

[Blake]

Rivers hasn't really accomplished much yet.

1983 is still the standard

[J.T.]

2004 probably has an edge until the Luck-Griffin-Osweiler era begins. You know Peyton is going to train that kid to be a ninja quarterback robot.

[Blake]

2012

Luck
RG3
LolTannehill

[J.T.]

Tannehill is probably going to bust, he got picked by the Dolphins.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Osweiler is gonna be more of a bust, he went to ASU.

Elway and Marino are 2 of the 5 best QBs ever so it's still 1983 by a good amount imo.

[symple19]

Tannehill is probably going to bust, he got picked by the Dolphins.

Miami has been a black hole for QBs for a long, long time

[vander]

Playing QB for NY/Pittsburgh >>>>>> playing QB for Denver/Miami

even if PR somehow carries the Chargers to a SB in spite of Norv, 1983 > 2004

E Manning is THE luckiest QB of all time. and Big Ben required some black and yellow refs to get his first SB

[dirk4mvp]

the 83 class wins, but Eli sure does make it a good case of 04 tbh.

[dirk4mvp]

Playing QB for NY/Pittsburgh >>>>>> playing QB for Denver/Miami

even if PR somehow carries the Chargers to a SB in spite of Norv, 1983 > 2004

E Manning is THE luckiest QB of all time. and Big Ben required some black and yellow refs to get his first SB

rofl memba when daddeh Manning told you to fuck yourself.

[DeadlyDynasty]

rofl memba when daddeh Manning told you to fuck yourself.

:rollin

[vander]

rofl memba when daddeh Manning told you to fuck yourself.

father knew best tbh

[Avante]

Not really all that close, 1983 in a landslide.

Elway and Marino all time greats, Kelly far better than Rivers.

[Clipper Nation]

rofl memba when daddeh Manning told you to fuck yourself.
Daddeh Manning was right about them Spanoses, but at least we got MVPhilip out of the deal, tbh....

[PGDynasty24]

1983 not even close,Elway is probably a Top 5 QB of All-Time while Marino is Top 10. Big Ben and Eli are not of that caliber,Elway in those earlier days carried those shit teams with Dan Reeves,if Marino was ever given a defense he makes more than 1 SB appearance and Jim Kelly was extremely solid player.

[DontStopBelieving]

1983 not even close,Elway is probably a Top 5 QB of All-Time while Marino is Top 10. Big Ben and Eli are not of that caliber,Elway in those earlier days carried those shit teams with Dan Reeves,if Marino was ever given a defense he makes more than 1 SB appearance and Jim Kelly was extremely solid player.

:lol:lolMarino not in the top 5:lol:lol

[symple19]

:lol:lolMarino not in the top 5:lol:lol

He's not, retard

Gawdy stats but not a winner or really even a leader.


Better QB's in no particular order:

Montana
Young
Elway
Brady
P. Manning
Bradshaw
Favre
Tarkenton
Unitas
Staubach

Case could be made for a few more guys, like Kelly and even Fouts being better as well

[Avante]

He's not, retard

Gawdy stats but not a winner or really even a leader.


Better QB's in no particular order:

Montana
Young
Elway
Brady
P. Manning
Bradshaw
Favre
Tarkenton
Unitas
Staubach

Case could be made for a few more guys, like Kelly and even Fouts being better as well

Hmmmm?

1.Joe Montana
2.Tom Brady
3.Brett Favre
4.Peyton Manning
5.John Elway
6.Dan Marino
7.Steve Young
8.Troy Aikman
9.Johnny Unitas
10.Aaron Rodgers
11.Otto Graham
12.Fran Tarkenton
13.Dan Fouts
14.Warren Moon
15.Bart Starr
16.Roger Staubach
17.Jim Kelly
18.Sonny Jurgenson
19.Y.A,Tittle
20.Terry Bradshaw
21.Kenny Stabler
22.Joe Namath
23.Ken Anderson
24.Len Dawson
25.Bob Griese

[gaKNOW!blee]

Hmmmm?

1.Joe Montana
2.Tom Brady
3.Brett Favre
4.Peyton Manning
5.John Elway
6.Dan Marino
7.Steve Young
8.Troy Aikman
9.Johnny Unitas
10.Aaron Rodgers
11.Otto Graham
12.Fran Tarkenton
13.Dan Fouts
14.Warren Moon
15.Bart Starr
16.Roger Staubach
17.Jim Kelly
18.Sonny Jurgenson
19.Y.A,Tittle
20.Terry Bradshaw
21.Kenny Stabler
22.Joe Namath
23.Ken Anderson
24.Len Dawson
25.Bob Griese

:lol Rodgers top 10 and brees not top 25

[JoeTait75]

He's not, retard

Gawdy stats but not a winner or really even a leader.


Better QB's in no particular order:

Montana
Young
Elway
Brady
P. Manning
Bradshaw
Favre
Tarkenton
Unitas
Staubach

Case could be made for a few more guys, like Kelly and even Fouts being better as well

In what universe is Fran Tarkenton a better QB than Marino- or a better winner, for that matter? Why don't you check out Tarkenton's Super Bowl numbers?

[symple19]

In what universe is Fran Tarkenton a better QB than Marino- or a better winner, for that matter? Why don't you check out Tarkenton's Super Bowl numbers?

well, if that's all you can find wrong with my list then I don't feel too bad

Fran won 3 conference titles

Marino 1

[Clipper Nation]

He's not, retard

Gawdy stats but not a winner or really even a leader.
:lmao :lmao :lmao

Not a winner? 147-93 record...

Not a leader? An NFL-record 36 fourth-quarter comebacks (3 in the playoffs), and an NFL-record 51 game winning drives (4 in the playoffs)...

He was CARRYING some mediocre teams during his time in Miami, yet he held the all-time record for passing yards until recently even as the game became more passing-dominant.... STILL holding the single-season and career record for most games with 400+ passing yards... as well as the career records for most seasons leading the league in completions and most seasons with 40+ touchdown passes.... and he was playing at the same time as Montana, Young, Favre, and Elway....

Dan Marino is the greatest quarterback of all time, tbh... give him Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Roger Craig, Dwight Clark, etc. and he gets at least four rings, maybe even more....

[symple19]

Dan Marino is the greatest quarterback of all time, tbh.

:lmao:lmao:lmao


make some more excuses for him, please

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao:lmao:lmao


make some more excuses for him, please
It's not excuses, it's facts.... the quarterback's job is to throw the ball, and imho, nobody did it better than Marino.... he just didn't have the GOAT wide reciever like Montana or a front office that was cheating the salary cap to build star-studded teams like Young or Elway...

[The Gemini Method]

Dude had a superb receiving corps--it was the D that always let the Dolphins down. Mark Clayton and Duper were not no names. I would have to say he's in the top-5, but then again the achievement of not winning a SB means you can have freedom to place him anywhere you like in your personal rankings.

[stretch]

He's not, retard

Gawdy stats but not a winner or really even a leader.


Better QB's in no particular order:

Montana
Young
Elway
Brady
P. Manning
Bradshaw
Favre
Tarkenton
Unitas
Staubach

Case could be made for a few more guys, like Kelly and even Fouts being better as well

:lmao

What kind of crap is this? Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Unitas, Kelly, and Fouts being better than Marino? You must be out of your mind.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Marino is easily a top 5 QB.

[stretch]

I would have to say he's in the top-5, but then again the achievement of not winning a SB means you can have freedom to place him anywhere you like in your personal rankings.

It's pretty retarded for anyone to drop him down past guys like Bradshaw and Fouts because of not winning a Superbowl, which is a freaking TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT.

I would really like to see someone name a QB that led a team with average to poor running backs, blocking, pass rush, pass coverage, run stopping, receiving core, and special teams, to a Superbowl.

EVERY SB WINNING TEAM WAS GOOD IN MOST IF NOT ALL OF THOSE PHASES OF THE GAME.

Now I agree that winning a SB does matter, to an extent. It shows an ability to be able to step up when it matters most (through the playoffs). But there are times when good QBs who never won a SB had plenty of great playoff appearances but was let down by his team (Dan Marino). As well as vice versa, with QBs winning multiple SBs, but consistently playing likes shit in the playoffs (Ben Worthlessburger). So people who base rankings so heavily on championships (in any sport) is retarded. Especially to say Bradshaw and Fouts > Marino :lmao

[JoeTait75]

well, if that's all you can find wrong with my list then I don't feel too bad

Fran won 3 conference titles

Marino 1

Chuck Foreman, Minnesota's defense and in two cases the self-destructive tendencies of the L.A. Rams had as much to do with the Vikings winning those conference titles as Tarkenton.

I'd take Marino over Brett Favre too, for that matter. Favre had SEVERAL horrible throws/games in big games.

[The Gemini Method]

It's pretty retarded for anyone to drop him down past guys like Bradshaw and Fouts because of not winning a Superbowl, which is a freaking TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENT.

I would really like to see someone name a QB that led a team with average to poor running backs, blocking, pass rush, pass coverage, run stopping, receiving core, and special teams, to a Superbowl.

EVERY SB WINNING TEAM WAS GOOD IN MOST IF NOT ALL OF THOSE PHASES OF THE GAME.

Now I agree that winning a SB does matter, to an extent. It shows an ability to be able to step up when it matters most (through the playoffs). But there are times when good QBs who never won a SB had plenty of great playoff appearances but was let down by his team (Dan Marino). As well as vice versa, with QBs winning multiple SBs, but consistently playing likes shit in the playoffs (Ben Worthlessburger). So people who base rankings so heavily on championships (in any sport) is retarded. Especially to say Bradshaw and Fouts > Marino :lmao

I would put Marino before those two--to me lists of all-time greats, when posted by keyboarders like us, are all opinion. He had horrible defenses and that's what kept him from being a multiple SB winner. In the discussion of all things sports (and in Amurica) it is ultimately defined on what is won and you're right it is a team endeavor. It would be hard for me to find 5 better QBs than Marino. I don't really care to make lists because it doesn't really do much for me. But Bradshaw and Fouts are definitely great QBs but Marino has them beat.

I remember seeing games where Marino would put up 500+ yards and 4 touchdowns and the D blowing the game to a no-name QB. Poor dude...I definitely agree that if he had the 49ers D this wouldn't be a debate. But that's why sports is fun. The discussion is what keeps the masses involved.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Here's the thing people don't get...as a pure passer, yeah Danny could very well be the best ever. He has all these stats though b/c he fucking HAD to pass all the time. He was great, but he wasn't the best playoff performer.

[stretch]

Here's the thing people don't get...as a pure passer, yeah Danny could very well be the best ever. He has all these stats though b/c he fucking HAD to pass all the time. He was great, but he wasn't the best playoff performer.

He wasn't flawless in the playoffs, but he had his share of fantastic performances, enough that with a decent all-around team, he would have probably won a ring or two.

[DeadlyDynasty]

He wasn't flawless in the playoffs, but he had his share of fantastic performances, enough that with a decent all-around team, he would have probably won a ring or two.
The 85/86 and 92 AFC Championship games hurt his legacy, as they were the closest he would get to a SB again. He and the Dolphins had no business losing to the Steve Grogan/Tony Eason Pats at home in that AFCCG. Likewise, in the 1992 AFCCG, he crapped the bed against the Bills (in Miami) with 3 or 4 turnovers.

Yeah, he played with a lackluster supporting cast for the majority of his career, but he was not the best when his team needed him in the playoffs. He's an all-time great, but no way in fucking hell is he the best QB of all-time.

[The Gemini Method]

Was that a horrible Super Bowl between the Grogan Pats and the Ditka McMahon Bears? Wowsa! Would've been better to have watched Marino vs that vaunted D.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Was that a horrible Super Bowl between the Grogan Pats and the Ditka McMahon Bears? Wowsa! Would've been better to have watched Marino vs that vaunted D.
Everybody wanted to see that b/c the Fins dealt the Bears their only loss that year.
Bears would've stomped them out the 2nd time around though

[symple19]

excuses, excuses, excuses

The QB, probably more than any other sport at any other position, has the greatest impact on their team from an individual standpoint.

Bradshaw won motherfucking 4 super bowls, and you can debate the team around him all you want, but dude still got it done when it mattered

Marino failed early in the playoffs time after time after time after time, while playing for one of the greatest coaches in NFL history, in a scheme where he was the focal point of the offense... Meaning the onus was on him to get the team to the promised land. And he failed in all but one year.

Shula might bear some responsibility for not running the ball enough, but you play with the cards you're dealt. The great ones find a way to win.

So make more excuses

How then do you explain the 49ers? Fantastic team with a sub-par QB. Not going to make it to the super bowl with a bum like him, even though the rest of the team is as talented and deep as any other in the league.
There's a reason why Trent Dilfer is the only QB I can think of in the modern era who took his team to a super bowl victory without having a great year.


I'll take intangibles over stats any day, because those are what win you football games late in December and beyond

In a vacuum where winning doesn't matter, then yeah, he's top 5. Otherwise, it's as I said :lol

Would it make you mad if I said even Phil Simms is a better QB all time? Plunkett? lmao, I'll take 1 or 2 SB victories and shitty stats over massive stats and endless failure any day of the week.

[symple19]

Mcmahon, Rypein, Williams, Dilfer, Aikman, and basically any QB who has won a SB > Marino

lol regular season show pony

[symple19]

This is hilarious.

It's the teams fault Marino didn't get to the Super Bowl, but if he had won a SB, then I guarantee people would be talking about how he did it all himself on a lackluster team.

You can't have it both ways

Bottom line, you can't be in the GOAT conversation if you don't have a ring.

[DeadlyDynasty]

^
I'm assuming you're being facetious with det one:lol

[symple19]

^
I'm assume you're being facetious with det one:lol

just a bit :lol

[Clipper Nation]

This is hilarious.

It's the teams fault Marino didn't get to the Super Bowl, but if he had won a SB, then I guarantee people would be talking about how he did it all himself on a lackluster team.

You can't have it both ways

That isn't having it both ways.... his supporting cast would have been lackluster whether he won a ring or not, tbh....

[Flintstones32]

Doesn't matter. The 2002 draft class of top pick David Carr, 3rd pick Joey Harrington, and 32nd pick Patrick Ramsey trumps all.

:lol I dare you to find 3 worse qb's drafted in the first round of the same draft.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao

What kind of crap is this? Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Unitas, Kelly, and Fouts being better than Marino? You must be out of your mind.

As a Chargerfan, Fouts is absolutely NOT better than Marino, that's laughable.... he was a poor man's Marino, tbh....

[Clipper Nation]

Doesn't matter. The 2002 draft class of top pick David Carr, 3rd pick Joey Harrington, and 32nd pick Patrick Ramsey trumps all.

:lol I dare you to find 3 worse qb's drafted in the first round of the same draft.

:cry "But David Carr won a ring, that means he's better than Marino!" :cry

[Flintstones32]

:cry "But David Carr won a ring, that means he's better than Marino!" :cry


Damn. My bad. You're right. :downspin:

[DeadlyDynasty]

-Jim Plunkett won with the 1980 Raiders (not a great team by any means, just hot at the right time).
-John Elway dragged bad defenses and running games to 3 SB's before getting TD.
-the examples go on and on...

I'm from Miami, so I'm jaded a bit growing up around excuse-making, dumbass Dolphin fans, but the fact is Marino's playoff career is about as impressive as Craig Morton's. Dude was a helluva 4th-qtr comeback QB in the regular season, but he didn't elevate his play in the postseason like all the greats do.

Is there even a quintessential Marino playoff moment that you can think of?

[symple19]

:lol

backups don't count

Phyllis Rivers is another example of a guy who puts up huge numbers but will never get a ring

lol Chargers

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

[Flintstones32]

Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

Bah I guarantee you Detroit has another winning season this year. Playoffs will be tough, even if they go 10-6 like I think they will. That is still a good year.

Their division is ridiculous. The NFC is going to be really good this year. I think its up in the air who gets in the playoffs.

[symple19]

-Jim Plunkett won with the 1980 Raiders (not a great team by any means, just hot at the right time).
-John Elway dragged bad defenses and running games to 3 SB's before getting TD.
-the examples go on and on...

I'm from Miami, so I'm jaded a bit growing up around excuse-making, dumbass Dolphin fans, but the fact is Marino's playoff career is about as impressive as Craig Morton's. Dude was a helluva 4th-qtr comeback QB in the regular season, but he didn't elevate his play in the postseason like all the greats do.

Is there even a quintessential Marino playoff moment that you can think of?

:tu x's 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Being a Niner fan, I've been lucky to watch some of the greatest, and then basically 10+ seasons of pure shit until last year.

Marino had all the ingredients

1. Great HC
2. Huge fan support
3. consistent personnel who played together for a long time
4. supportive ownership
5. Good players around him on offense (except maybe at RB)

Some-fucking-body explain to me why he couldn't get it right at least one of those years?????

And you want him in the GOAT conversation?

xfnujUPUnkU

[Clipper Nation]

Phyllis Rivers is another example of a guy who puts up huge numbers but will never get a ring
:lol Niners

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...


Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....

[DeadlyDynasty]

Bah I guarantee you Detroit has another winning season this year. Playoffs will be tough, even if they go 10-6 like I think they will. That is still a good year.

Their division is ridiculous. The NFC is going to be really good this year. I think its up in the air who gets in the playoffs.
Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a shitty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

[DeadlyDynasty]

:lol Niners

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...



Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....
Pre-merger...aka, when nobody watched or gave a shit about the sport.

Next...

[symple19]

Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

I don't subscribe to that argument.

I think the right combination on any of those teams, coupled with a great year from the QB, and they could be putting a ring on

If I had to pick one of them and say they had a fighter's chance, it would be Detroit.

Buffalo and Cleveland...Jeez. So many hard losses. Elway still owns the city of Cleveland, i think. those two franchises have the most to overcome, imo, despite having some of the best fans on the planet, in any sport

[Flintstones32]

Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a shitty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

Yes I think it was pretty obvious they were the 3rd best team before Cutler got hurt. This is football. People get hurt. Only thing that matters is your record in the end. Doesn't matter how you got there. Look at the Giants.

The Lions might be the worst franchise in all sports. Doesn't matter. They're not now. History means shit. Its all about what have you done for me lately.

As a fan of all things Detroit I am excited about the Lions and their future. As well as the Tigers and I like the Pistons young players.

Red Wings seem on the decline even with their "Fantastic" history as a franchise. But that history doesn't mean shit does it? Its all about now.

[symple19]

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...

I agree




Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....

Nobody gives a fuck about pre-merger bullshit

I still can't believe you referenced some obscure victory over the pats that happened in 1823 while you were arguing with DOK

The stench of delusional homer is wafting off you, bruh

[symple19]

Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a shitty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

ahhhh, the good ole' run n shoot

memba det?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes I think it was pretty obvious they were the 3rd best team before Cutler got hurt. This is football. People get hurt. Only thing that matters is your record in the end. Doesn't matter how you got there. Look at the Giants.

The Lions might be the worst franchise in all sports. Doesn't matter. They're not now. History means shit. Its all about what have you done for me lately.

As a fan of all things Detroit I am excited about the Lions and their future. As well as the Tigers and I like the Pistons young players.

Red Wings seem on the decline even with their "Fantastic" history as a franchise. But that history doesn't mean shit does it? Its all about now.
I can appreciate your gung-ho attitude bro, but Detroit--as much as I pull for them to some degree--still has a god-awful secondary that I could probably put up 300 on. Furthermore, I think the Bears are still a better team and more complete team than them. The Packers are obviously better. The Niners, Saints, and Giants are better as well...Detroit is a 2nd-tier team along with Atlanta and Dallas--who have tons of talent but also have glaring holes.

I love Megatron (one of my favorite players) and Stafford is good, but they still have a major hill to climb.

[DeadlyDynasty]

ahhhh, the good ole' run n shoot

memba det?
Erik Kramer was their QB iirc:lol

Cokehead Wayne Fontes was an underrated coach imo

[symple19]

I can appreciate your gung-ho attitude bro, but Detroit--as much as I pull for them to some degree--still has a god-awful secondary that I could probably put up 300 on. Furthermore, I think the Bears are still a better team and more complete team than them. The Packers are obviously better. The Niners, Saints, and Giants are better as well...Detroit is a 2nd-tier team along with Atlanta and Dallas--who have tons of talent but also have glaring holes.

I love Megatron (one of my favorite players) and Stafford is good, but they still have a major hill to climb.

Their front seven has the chance to be dominant, but I agree that if they can't get to the QB then they could certainly be torched.

However, a bright spot from last year is that they forced a ton of turnovers (+11 diff), and I believe that factor made a huge difference in their turnaround (they were 3rd overall)

[symple19]

Erik Kramer was their QB iirc:lol

Cokehead Wayne Fontes was an underrated coach imo

I was thinking Mitchell, but you may be right. possible that Mitchell didn't come around until a few years later

The Lions were at least competitive in those days.

Barry Sanders is still up there with Rice/Lott as my favorite players to watch, all-time

I've mos-def got a soft spot for them, unless they're playing the Niners (which they will this year)

[DeadlyDynasty]

Their front seven has the chance to be dominant, but I agree that if they can't get to the QB then they could certainly be torched.

However, a bright spot from last year is that they forced a ton of turnovers (+11 diff), and I believe that factor made a huge difference in their turnaround (they were 3rd overall)
Turnovers are such a static statistic and aren't really an indicator of future defensive success...sometimes it's just the breaks. Look at the Saints defense of 2009 compared to the last 2 years. Not a whole lot of personnel changes (and virtually no schematic changes) at all...the difference is the 2009 team caused a fuckload of TO's.

[The Gemini Method]

I cannot wait until L.A. (if ever...) gets it franchise--Though I enjoy getting to see a multitude of games w/o a team, it would be nice to have a team to get behind in L.A. Albeit, USC will be nice to cheer on this year.

[symple19]

Turnovers are such a static statistic and aren't really an indicator of future defensive success...sometimes it's just the breaks. Look at the Saints defense of 2009 compared to the last 2 years. Not a whole lot of personnel changes (and virtually no schematic changes) at all...the difference is the 2009 team caused a fuckload of TO's.

good point

I think there will be some consistency because of just how good they are up front, but ultimately, you're right. It's a flooky stat from year to year

[JoeTait75]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

[The Gemini Method]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

Same with the 49ers...

[symple19]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

:tu

[DeadlyDynasty]

Teams aren't "cursed"
We of all people know that's not the truth, Joe.:lol

Lake Erie breeds losing.

[Clipper Nation]

Nobody gives a fuck about pre-merger bullshit
The games were still played and still count regardless of whether or not you give a fuck, tbh....

[symple19]

Lake Erie breeds losing.

still disagree, but funny nonetheless :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

and their successes were half a century ago...awesome. You've now convinced us all that these aren't losing franchises. Bravo.

[JoeTait75]

We of all people know that's not the truth, Joe.:lol

Lake Erie breeds losing.

In all seriousness, there's a logical explanation for every single thing that has gone wrong with these two franchises. Except maybe the Music City Miracle.

[DeadlyDynasty]

In all seriousness, there's a logical explanation for every single thing that has gone wrong with these two franchises. Except maybe the Music City Forward Lateral.
fify

[J.T.]

Peyton Manning is 22 touchdowns away from erasing Dan Marino's name from this discussion, if he hadn't already done this as early as 2004.

[stretch]

Bottom line, you can't be in the GOAT conversation if you don't have a ring.

Did anyone here say he was the GOAT?

EDIT: I just saw clipper nations reply. But disregard him. He is a faggot.

[symple19]

Did anyone here say he was the GOAT?

EDIT: I just saw clipper nations reply. But disregard him. He is a faggot.

indeed, he is :lol

[Avante]

:lol Rodgers top 10 and brees not top 25

How in the hell do you forget Drew Brees....EL DUHO!!!!!

Put him at 10 and move everyone else down.

[symple19]

How in the hell do you forget Drew Brees....EL DUHO!!!!!

Put him at 10 and move everyone else down.

I think both of those guys, especially Rogers, will end up in the top 10 easily. Still some very good years ahead of both

[gaKNOW!blee]

How in the hell do you forget Drew Brees....EL DUHO!!!!!

Put him at 10 and move everyone else down.

You can't put a guy who has played four seasons as a top 11 Qb of all time.

Yet.

[DontStopBelieving]

Lol @ everyone here that doesn't think Marino is a top 5 QB.

I understand using the rings argument in the NBA, but the NFL? :lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

Is there even a quintessential Marino playoff moment that you can think of?

[Avante]

You can't put a guy who has played four seasons as a top 11 Qb of all time.

Yet.

He's playing against the greatest defenders ever right now. He's already won a SB and setting records. Yep, top 10!

[DeadlyDynasty]

He's playing against the greatest defenders ever right now. He's already won a SB and setting records. Yep, top 10!
I think Brees will end up being top 10, but there's a flipside to your argument. Back then the DL could headswipe the OL to get to the QB, and CBs like Mel Blount were allowed to murder receivers downfield before they touched the ball. The league has never been more catered to passing offenses than it is now.

[DontStopBelieving]

Miami has been a black hole for QBs for a long, long time

Probably because they hadn't drafted a QB in the first round ( where 99% of franchise qbs are) since Marino. The Brees-Culpepper decision sill haunts me though.. Take Brees and you possibly have a superbowl or two, instead of being the NFL's laughingstock for the last 7 years.

[DontStopBelieving]

62-7:lol

Edit: meant to quote DD. ST mobile sucks

[DeadlyDynasty]

62-7:lol
:lmao

props:tu

[gaKNOW!blee]

He's playing against the greatest defenders ever right now. He's already won a SB and setting records. Yep, top 10!

Yeah those lion and Vikings secondaries are something to behold...

You're projecting that he's going to continue that success which you can't do when coming up with the greatest quarterbacks ever.

You're saying he'd have a more successful career than Jim Kelly if he retired right now just because of that one superbowl?

[DeadlyDynasty]

I remember that jags game vividly...Marino threw the lone Dolphins TD (to Oronde Gadsden) at the end of the half to cut the deficit to 41-7, afterwhich Gadsden celebrates by doing his "O-G" arm gesture. That was a quintessential "african" move, and Marino had the "Really, dude?" look on his face after that:lol

[Avante]

I think Brees will end up being top 10, but there's a flipside to your argument. Back then the DL could headswipe the OL to get to the QB, and CBs like Mel Blount were allowed to murder receivers downfield before they touched the ball. The league has never been more catered to passing offenses than it is now.

Well aware of all that but the players are so much faster today, things are happening so much quicker.

But...

There is something about.. dominance of era.. and that really is how these..The Greatest...type lists should be done. Obviosly all these guys today are bigger, stronger, faster. So if we do go with...dominance of era...then no Brees isn't on a par with a lot of those old timers. Hell, nobody dominated an era like Otto Graham.

[JoeTait75]

1985 against Cleveland (18-point third-quarter deficit overcome) and 1990 against Kansas City (13-point fourth-quarter deficit overcome.) *

*- Opponents both coached by Marty Schottenheimer

[symple19]

Lol @ everyone here that doesn't think Marino is a top 5 QB.

I understand using the rings argument in the NBA, but the NFL? :lol

bring an argument and not just :lol

And while you're coming up with something intelligent to say, why don't you answer DD's question about Marino in the playoffs?

Why are there so many dipshit homers?!?!?!?!!??!?!!?!?!?!!?!?

[DontStopBelieving]

bring an argument and not just :lol

And while you're coming up with something intelligent to say, why don't you answer DD's question about Marino in the playoffs?

Why are there so many dipshit homers?!?!?!?!!??!?!!?!?!?!!?!?

I'd rather not waste my time with someone who thinks bradshaw>marino. :lmao

[symple19]

I'd rather not waste my time with someone who thinks bradshaw>marino. :lmao

probably because you don't have a coherent argument and fall back on emoticons

solid

[Blake]

Doesn't matter. The 2002 draft class of top pick David Carr, 3rd pick Joey Harrington, and 32nd pick Patrick Ramsey trumps all.

:lol I dare you to find 3 worse qb's drafted in the first round of the same draft.

Hard to find 3 QBs drafted in the first round.

1990 with Jeff George and Andre Ware was close.....

[Clipper Nation]

Lol @ everyone here that doesn't think Marino is a top 5 QB.

I understand using the rings argument in the NBA, but the NFL? :lol

It's not even understandable in the NBA, tbh...

[Clipper Nation]

probably because you don't have a coherent argument and fall back on emoticons

solid

You think Fouts and Bradshaw > Marino the GOAT, so you're in no position to be criticizing others' takes on the matter, tbh....