Why do human beings get upset over voter identification?

[Jacob1983]

I don't get it. In America, you have to show your driver's license if you appear to be under 30 or 40 to buy alcohol and tobacco. What's the fuckin' big deal about showing some ID when you vote? I mean seriously, why bitch? You don't bitch when you go to the store to buy your booze and smokes and have to show ID so why bitch when you go to vote? At some banks, you must show ID in order to make a withdrawal.
And another question for voter ID crybabies, if Americans don't have to show any type of identification in order to vote, do you have a problem with Billy Bob voting for Romney 10 times or Harry Dick voting for Gary Johnson 100 times? What if Barry Jones voted 1000 times for Barry Obama? What about record keeping? Shouldn't there be some type of record of American's votes?

[TDMVPDPOY]

in america, if ur a registered voter...do you get fined for not voting???


down here u get fined 150bucks i think...fkn pathetic and a load of bullshit when u are force to vote for unworthy wankers for the electoral position

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think that a better question is there an actual district, individual or electorate that has decried fraud in a recent election? Not some dickhead GOP electioneer but rank and file constituents pointing to their own district's election.

GOP politicians like to act like its 1850's NY/Chicago but I see a lack of empirical basis for these claims.

What election in the last 20 years had its outcome changed by voter fraud?

If there is not a problem then why create a law? It's even more comical when you look at self styled 'libertarians' or 'conservatives' who want these laws created.

Let's bitch about over-regulation and freedom but support this type of shit.

It's been clearly outlined that while fraud does not effect voter outcome, ID laws do dispossess the poor and minorities. 'Conservatives' like to look at individual anecdotes like 'you should be able to get an ID,' statistical analysis paints a completely different picture.

When you look at the statistics of legal voters who do not have IDs and thus will be precluded from voting, they are twice the rate of being poor and minorities versus those above the poverty line and white. It's something along the lines of 8% of whites and 15% of nonwhites.

So while you can make claims about what people 'should' do the fact is that 8% of whites and 16% of nonwhites will be prevented from voting. All in the name of solving a problem that does not exist. It's goal is no different than poll taxes and those reading tests that the old guard southern democrats used to give out.

[Jacob1983]

I was talking about human beings in general. Thank you.


If you can show your ID to buy your smokes and booze, then you should be mature and responsible enough to bring it with you when you go to vote. If not, go fuck yourself and quit your bitching.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am talking about human beings in general too.

As I said, the more poignant question is why do people get upset that there are not voter ID laws

Who is upset about the outcome of their election that thinks there is a need to require people to carry IDs? I am not asking for your shitty anecdotes about what people 'should' be able to do.

I am talking about the constituents of which particular district are crying for a need for these laws.

For example, do you think that your particular district has a problem with voting fraud that needs these laws? Do you know of anyone who feels that their district has an issue?

I sure as hell do not. There is zero desire to appease the wishes of any particular electorate behind these laws. What we see is a bunch of GOP sycophants that are trying to make excuses why these laws should be okay.

I never see any justification why these laws are needed in the firstplace other than to dispossess minorities and poor people at a higher rate than WASPs.

[mavs>spurs]

people in america not having id's is a fairy tale

things you need an ID to do:

drive a car
get on welfare
buy alcohol
buy cigarettes
get foodstamps
cash a check
write a check
buy a gun
rent an apartment
go to college
go to a bar
obtain insurance

the list goes on and on. shut the fuck up about :cry poor people not having id's :cry

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Having a driver's license or photo identification card is commonplace for most Americans, but about 11 percent of adult citizens — more than 21 million people — lack a valid, government-issued photo ID, according to a study by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-01-2012/voter-id-laws-impact-older-americans.html


Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID. That percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many citizens find it hard to get government photo IDs, because the underlying documentation like birth certificates (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult or expensive to come by. At the same time, voter ID policies are far more costly to implement than many assume.

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

Now show me the voter fraud statistics or shall I show them to you as well?

[Jacob1983]

Again, would any of you Obama lovers or Willard fanboys be happy if Billy Bob voted for Willard 1000 times and Barry Jones voted for Obama 10000 times? You think you're special? Your vote should be documented and recorded and there should be some record of it with your fuckin' photograph. I don't got any sympathy, sorry. If you are willing to show ID for to do other shit or buy shit that will fuck you up then you should be willing to show it to fuckin' vote. I don't give a shit if you're the whitest guy in upstate New York or a brother from South Central. You got no excuses in my book.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Again, would any of you Obama lovers or Willard fanboys be happy if Billy Bob voted for Willard 1000 times and Barry Jones voted for Obama 10000 times? You think you're special? Your vote should be documented and recorded and there should be some record of it with your fuckin' photograph. I don't got any sympathy, sorry. If you are willing to show ID for to do other shit or buy shit that will fuck you up then you should be willing to show it to fuckin' vote. I don't give a shit if you're the whitest guy in upstate New York or a brother from South Central. You got no excuses in my book.

Would you be happy if your mother whored herself out for crack? Then why do you have a problem with me locking her in her room?

Making shit up that isn't happening is not a justification.

Your vote is documented. it is possible to document something without an ID. It's possible to prove your identity without having a state issued id card that you have to pay for.

I am still waiting for an explanation as to why these laws are needed.

[Jacob1983]

So if I didn't have to show my ID when I go to vote and was able to vote for Gary Johnson a million times, you would be okay with that? I wouldn't be breaking the law?
Would I be a hero?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So if I didn't have to show my ID when I go to vote and was able to vote for Gary Johnson a million times, you would be okay with that? I wouldn't be breaking the law?
Would I be a hero?

If you whored yourself out for crack a million times, you would be okay with that? you wouldn't be breaking the law?

Would you be a hero.


Its stupid logic and you disgrace yourself by using it.

[mavs>spurs]

lol aarp and brennancenter

lol not having id's

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Pennsylvania Departments of State and Transportation (PennDot) compared databases and found that approximately 9 percent of the state’s 8,232,928 registered voters do not have PennDot ID numbers. This means these voters do not have a photo ID, such as a drivers’ license, from the state Transportation Department that can be used at the polling place to meet the state’s recently enacted voter ID requirement. Statewide nearly 760,000 voters could not be matched.

http://www.pewstates.org/research/analysis/pennsylvania-voter-id-85899411346

I guess it's easier to believe what you want rather than what is. But it is what it is regardless. Lying to yourself so you can excuse disenfranchise others is not very nice.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The battle over voter ID continues, and in Wisconsin, it is being fought in the courtroom. Two judges recently blocked the state’s law requiring photo ID at the polls from taking effect.

Plaintiffs opposing the law retained researchers to examine the rates of possession of accepted photo ID among the voting eligible population (VEP) and registered voters in Milwaukee County, the state’s most populous county.

Based on survey results, 9.5 percent of the county’s VEP—slightly more than 63,000 eligible voters—and 8.7 percent of registered voters were found to lack the proper ID.

The findings also revealed the rates of inadequate identification were significantly higher than the countywide figure among minorities but lower among white voters:

14.9 percent of eligible and 11.3 percent of registered Latinos.
13.2 percent of eligible and 15.3 percent of registered African-Americans.
7.4 of eligible and 6.0 percent of registered Whites.

http://www.pewstates.org/research/analysis/voters-without-id-in-wisconsin-85899398509

It's amazing how I am able to back up what I claim. You should try it m>s.

[mavs>spurs]

lol pewstates

none of these links could possibly be political!

[johnsmith]

I agree with the OP.....and fuzzy, quit changing the OP's question....if you want to start a thread about the merit of the laws, have at it......the question however was, why the fuck does anyone care if they have to show an ID?

[Wild Cobra]

I agree with the OP.....and fuzzy, quit changing the OP's question....if you want to start a thread about the merit of the laws, have at it......the question however was, why the fuck does anyone care if they have to show an ID?
And everyone should have to.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I agree with the OP.....and fuzzy, quit changing the OP's question....if you want to start a thread about the merit of the laws, have at it......the question however was, why the fuck does anyone care if they have to show an ID?

I answered the question: because the desire to have people present ID is intent on disenfranchising minorities and the poor.

How do we know this to be true? Because of the answer to the question that I pose.

Is there a single district that can be named whose constituents make the claims with cause that the GOP proponents of such legislation claim?

If the answer to that question is no then the intent for requiring IDs should very much so be in question. There is no inherent 'rightness' to requiring ID. There are several cliches from Franklin that address the ethic behind that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol pewstates

none of these links could possibly be political!


The Pennsylvania Departments of State and Transportation (PennDot) compared databases


Based on survey results, 9.5 percent of the county’s VEP—slightly more than 63,000 eligible voters—and 8.7 percent of registered voters were found to lack the proper ID.


The Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that provides information on the issues, attitudes and trends shaping America and the world. The center conducts public opinion polling, demographic studies, media content analysis and other empirical social science research. It does not take positions on policy issues.

I wonder if you truly are this pigheaded and racist or if you are trolling.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

I wonder if you truly are this pigheaded and racist or if you are trolling.

If it's a vote I pick pigheaded and racist.

[DarrinS]

Well, the theory is that there are a lot of poor minorities that don't have an ID. I work in a poor part of town and they seen to be able to produce ID at the convenience store.

[boutons_deux]

Showing an ID to vote is not difficult a requirement, if the govt would make it easy AND free to obtain a voter ID.

The huge problem with the VRWC pushing for voter ID is that they realize they are, as representing, protecting, enriching the 10%, while do nothing for, if not actually fucking the 90%, they are the natural minority so they know they MUST disenfranchise as many of the 90% as they can, and they must do it relentlessly.

and where they can, Repug political appointees (rather than apolitical civil servants) at state level steal the election, like in OH 2004 and FL 2000, and most certainly in Repug states 2012.

It's truly amazing for the self-proclaimed champion and beacon of democracy that US state political appointees count votes instead of apolitical civil technocrats. That's just acting for COUNTING fraud.

Study Finds In-Person Voter Fraud Is Rare

An analysis of more than 2,000 alleged voter fraud cases over the last decade shows that the occurrence of such fraud is infinitesimal and that in-person voter impersonation is virtually nonexistent. But 37 state legislatures have enacted or are considering tough voter ID laws in the run-up to the 2012 election. Why?

As has already been reported, Republicans are counting on such measures to help presidential candidate Mitt Romney win the election.

Hear Pennsylvania House Republican leader Mike Turzai say as much in the “Democracy Now!” segment below. Then listen to voter advocate Nicole Austin-Hillery, director of the Washington office of the Brennan Center for Justice, expand on the issue.

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/study_finds_in-person_voter_fraud_negligible_video_20120817/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Truthdig+Truthdig%3A+Drilling +Beneath+the+Headlines&utm_content=Google+Reader

and rare understates the situation when trying to find modern elections whose outcomes were actually changed by voter fraud. OH 2004 was not not voter fraud, but Repug administrative counting fraud.

[Yonivore]

The thread title begs the question; are there other species that even think about voter identification?

[boutons_deux]

John Roberts, extreme right-wing Repug political activist JINO, targeting the Voting Rights Act.

What’s Ahead in the 'Voting Wars'? Certainly Not Peace


http://www.thenation.com/blog/169434/whats-ahead-voting-wars-certainly-not-peace#

[jack sommerset]

I say calf tat every American. God bless

[Ginobilly]

lame excuses by people imo. Don't ID's cost around 10-15 bucks? The only Americans who can't produce ID's are certain Amish and Native Americans. The rest are probably illegal immigrants or people who have overstayed their visa.

[LnGrrrR]

To answer the OP, I assume human beings get upset over voter ID because I couldn't imagine a dog or cat caring too much... and the Japanese haven't invented robots with emotions. Yet.

[SnakeBoy]

To answer the OP, I assume human beings get upset over voter ID because I couldn't imagine a dog or cat caring too much...

I don't know, this guy is probably upset over voter id laws.

WuKqWEYzhEA

[ElNono]

I don't know, this guy is probably upset over voter id laws.

WuKqWEYzhEA

He probably voted last election too...

[Wild Cobra]

Well, the theory is that there are a lot of poor minorities that don't have an ID. I work in a poor part of town and they seen to be able to produce ID at the convenience store.
How do they use their government assisted payment cards without ID? Are stores failing to check IDs?

Must be why parents still cannot feed their children. Their sell their food cards at 1/2 rate and other people are not checked for ID to use them.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know, this guy is probably upset over voter id laws.

WuKqWEYzhEA
From a typical birdbrain.

[mavs>spurs]

lame excuses by people imo. Don't ID's cost around 10-15 bucks? The only Americans who can't produce ID's are certain Amish and Native Americans. The rest are probably illegal immigrants or people who have overstayed their visa.

this.

of all the things you need an ID to do, poor people sure do a lot of them. such as buying beer/cigarettes, getting on welfare, etc. actually if you think about it, this actually is more likely to affect rich people who don't drive because they have chauffeurs than it is poor slobs who need their vices. What a travesty! everyone picking on the upper class :cry

[LnGrrrR]

The thread title begs the question; are there other species that even think about voter identification?

Damn it, Yoni beat me to the punch. :toast

[BradLohaus]

I've never voted. When I first heard of this I thought, "Wait, you don't have to do that already?" I even asked friends because I didn't believe it. So what happens? Do they ask you to put your name down and for your birthday or something? Also isn't it law that every American has a social security number? So who doesn't have that card or know the number? Wouldn't that be simple and good enough to id?

[Wild Cobra]

I've never voted. When I first heard of this I thought, "Wait, you don't have to do that already?" I even asked friends because I didn't believe it. So what happens? Do they ask you to put your name down and for your birthday or something? Also isn't it law that every American has a social security number? So who doesn't have that card or know the number? Wouldn't that be simple and good enough to id?
Yes, a simple thing. I can't help but believe that those who don't want to check for ID's believe the system is corrupt, and wan t to keep it that way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, a simple thing. I can't help but believe that those who don't want to check for ID's believe the system is corrupt, and wan t to keep it that way.

You consistently have demonstrated that you will believe what you want to believe without any empirical basis.

.08% of the cast ballots is .08%. Not a single district claiming that the outcome was determined by fraud is what it is.

Why do we need these laws? Its a really simple question that keeps getting avoided.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've never voted. When I first heard of this I thought, "Wait, you don't have to do that already?" I even asked friends because I didn't believe it. So what happens? Do they ask you to put your name down and for your birthday or something? Also isn't it law that every American has a social security number? So who doesn't have that card or know the number? Wouldn't that be simple and good enough to id?

Birth certificates. Utility bills. Etc have all been used as ID.

8% of white voters. 12% of latin voters. 14% of black voters.

Thats who doesn't have ID's.

[jack sommerset]

I have quit a bit of identifications. God bless

[CosmicCowboy]

I've never voted. When I first heard of this I thought, "Wait, you don't have to do that already?" I even asked friends because I didn't believe it. So what happens? Do they ask you to put your name down and for your birthday or something? Also isn't it law that every American has a social security number? So who doesn't have that card or know the number? Wouldn't that be simple and good enough to id?

I show them my voter registration and my drivers license and sign the register next to my name when I vote. It's really pretty easy. Sorry your democratic voters are so fucking stupid they cant do the same thing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I show them my voter registration and my drivers license and sign the register next to my name when I vote. It's really pretty easy. Sorry your democratic voters are so fucking stupid they cant do the same thing.

There are a disproportionate number of elderly that do not have state issued ID's either.

Why do you hate your contemporaries and minorities?

[Wild Cobra]

There are a disproportionate number of elderly that do not have state issued ID's either.

Why do you hate your contemporaries and minorities?
The ID problem needs to be addressed. They shouldn't go without it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The ID problem needs to be addressed. They shouldn't go without it.

What ID 'problem?'

Seriously, be specific. Point us to where the voter fraud is a risk of changing election outcomes or better yet how these types of laws will prevent such an outcome.

You claim to be a libertarian against needless regulation. You are no more a libertarian than you are a NAACP supporter.

[Wild Cobra]

What ID 'problem?'

Seriously, be specific. Point us to where the voter fraud is a risk of changing election outcomes or better yet how these types of laws will prevent such an outcome.

You claim to be a libertarian against needless regulation. You are no more a libertarian than you are a NAACP supporter.
FuzzyDude...

It can be a serious issue if people don't carry ID, especially the elderly. Put the vote issue aside for a minute. Everyone needs valid ID. It's a bigger problem than an undetermined number of votes if they don't have ID.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FuzzyDude...

It can be a serious issue if people don't carry ID, especially the elderly. Put the vote issue aside for a minute. Everyone needs valid ID. It's a bigger problem than an undetermined number of votes if they don't have ID.

:lol libertarian. the bolded is totalitarian. we should require passes to cross borders too.

Where does this problem manifest? Cannot name a single district can you?

So if I leave my ID at home that means I am a problem? If I was elderly this would be moreso?

[Wild Cobra]

:lol libertarian. the bolded is totalitarian. we should require passes to cross borders too.

Where does this problem manifest? Cannot name a single district can you?

So if I leave my ID at home that means I am a problem? If I was elderly this would be moreso?
What happens if you leave your ID at home and end up unconscious in a hospital?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What happens if you leave your ID at home and end up unconscious in a hospital?

then they cannot donate my organs if I die?

the hospital cannot bill me as effectively?

why do you claim to be a libertarian? eugenics, racism and totalitarian policies is the WC way.

[Wild Cobra]

then they cannot donate my organs if I die?

the hospital cannot bill me as effectively?

why do you claim to be a libertarian? eugenics, racism and totalitarian policies is the WC way.
Do you think John Doe's get treated with the same medical care?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you think John Doe's get treated with the same medical care?

I see you are now trying to change the subject.

So for review, you can give no basis for requiring people to carry ID other than you think it might get you better health care if you are knocked unconscious.

And you use this same brain to conclude that health care is a privilege and not a right.

Does it hurt?

[Wild Cobra]

I see you are now trying to change the subject.

So for review, you can give no basis for requiring people to carry ID other than you think it might get you better health care if you are knocked unconscious.

And you use this same brain to conclude that health care is a privilege and not a right.

Does it hurt?
No.

I am only showing that you are only seeing ID inside one box. Everyone needs ID for a variety of reasons. If the excuse for not having ID a voting requirement is that not everyone has one, then we are far worse of in other areas. It's a fucking lame excuse.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol big picture

You make this lame ass argument constantly. It's not like you are fooling anyone with these claims of me not being able to see the big picture every time you fail to elucidate any empirical examples.

I know you don't have the balls to claim that it helps criminal law enforcement because at that point you might as well put a swastika in your avatar. although you probably do think that. you are a tool for authoritarianism.

You so far have demonstrated that people may want to carry ID because it will get them better health care.

Why should the government how good of health care you get? While you talk about my inability to see the big picture you fail to see the logical extensions of your arguments.

You are saying that the government should mandate people carry better ID's because the result would be better health care. Now compare and contrast that with your opinion on the government insuring health care for people in general.

Are you just a glutton for punishment? You decry me being a bully but for fucks sake do you make it hard. You say incredibly stupid simpleminded shit and then posture with this lame ass tripe.

[Jacob1983]

I don't think it should just be a driver's license as proof to show you are who you say you are. You should be able to use a passport, your job photo badge if you have one, a college ID card, some type of card that has your info and photo on it, etc...

Are you going to tell me that people can't get that shit? And aren't you a racist when you say that minorities shouldn't have to show ID when they vote because you say they usually can't get it? With your logic, you're implying that every person from a minority group is helpless, stupid, and cannot do simple things on their own. What does that say about you?


And again, if I don't have to show my ID to vote then why should I have to show it if I want to buy alcohol and tobacco? You're picking and choosing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think it should just be a driver's license as proof to show you are who you say you are. You should be able to use a passport, your job photo badge if you have one, a college ID card, some type of card that has your info and photo on it, etc...

Are you going to tell me that people can't get that shit? And aren't you a racist when you say that minorities shouldn't have to show ID when they vote because you say they usually can't get it? With your logic, you're implying that every person from a minority group is helpless, stupid, and cannot do simple things on their own. What does that say about you?


And again, if I don't have to show my ID to vote then why should I have to show it if I want to buy alcohol and tobacco? You're picking and choosing.

I do not dispute that people should not be able to just go to any polling station and vote based on their word only. I am just saying that the motivations for requiring only a valid state issued photo ID are transparent electioneering.

The laws are not being passed to prevent fraud. For all your justifications of why it should be okay I fail to see you deny that. Whats the point of the legislation?

Equating voting to buying beer is fun though. The point of that legislation is to keep them out of the hands of minors. You can point to teenage alcoholism and the exploitation of children in general as cause for such legislation.

I think the requirement that you keep your ID updated is bullshit too. the point is to ensure you are above a certain age, not to give the state an excuse to tax you. I think that the puritanical laws from the early 20th century banning, regulating, etc alcohol, drugs and the like are bullshit.

On a final note I will quote Thomas Paine


A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right.

[Latarian Milton]

I don't get it. In America, you have to show your driver's license if you appear to be under 30 or 40 to buy alcohol and tobacco. What's the fuckin' big deal about showing some ID when you vote? I mean seriously, why bitch? You don't bitch when you go to the store to buy your booze and smokes and have to show ID so why bitch when you go to vote? At some banks, you must show ID in order to make a withdrawal.
And another question for voter ID crybabies, if Americans don't have to show any type of identification in order to vote, do you have a problem with Billy Bob voting for Romney 10 times or Harry Dick voting for Gary Johnson 100 times? What if Barry Jones voted 1000 times for Barry Obama? What about record keeping? Shouldn't there be some type of record of American's votes?

in america you have to show an ID wherever you go or whatever you buy, when most of the shits were faked and sold to us by them chinks. just keep things going this way so chinks will sell us more fake IDs and drain more money outta your pockets

[Latarian Milton]

I don't think it should just be a driver's license as proof to show you are who you say you are. You should be able to use a passport, your job photo badge if you have one, a college ID card, some type of card that has your info and photo on it, etc...

Are you going to tell me that people can't get that shit? And aren't you a racist when you say that minorities shouldn't have to show ID when they vote because you say they usually can't get it? With your logic, you're implying that every person from a minority group is helpless, stupid, and cannot do simple things on their own. What does that say about you?


And again, if I don't have to show my ID to vote then why should I have to show it if I want to buy alcohol and tobacco? You're picking and choosing.

the ID is what makes u proud and a badge that you "legal" immigrants show off and brag about in front of your countrymen who don't have this tbh

serious question though, do you also show off your dick everytime you meet a female like how you show your ID?

[mingus]

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-01-2012/voter-id-laws-impact-older-americans.html



http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

Now show me the voter fraud statistics or shall I show them to you as well?

I am playing devil's advocate...

How many of those 21 million actually vote or would vote?

Doubt it is empirically answerable, but I am curious.