Can Mike Trout win the MVP?

[Fabbs]

I know the media phaggots who get to vote do not have a clue.
Still, is Trout doing so well they virtually will have to vote him in?

No player -- any age, any tenure -- has combined a .340 batting average with 20 homers and 40 stolen bases in a single season.
And that's missing a month of the season. :lmao

Trout -- at 21 years, 21 days old -- the first rookie and youngest player to amass 25 homers and 40 stolen bases in a single season.

[Lincoln]

:lol depends, did you fuck that whale gf of yours?

[AussieFanKurt]

I wasn't aware his stats were that good but if those are true he has to be up there

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When his team is 3rd in its division I wouldn't count on it.

[Chris]

When his team is 3rd in its division I wouldn't count on it.

[Spursfan092120]

How valuable are you when your team is 9 games out in your division?

[Fabbs]

How valuable are you when your team is 9 games out in your division?
they'd be 25 games out if he was not in the lineup?

Will/would the eventual winner of the MVP (if not Trout) have the Skosha Angels doing any better?

[AussieFanKurt]

Surely the argument behind an amazing player in a shit team is redundant. Isn't it Most Valuable Player full stop. Didn't think it was MVP on a good team. Well I know that's how they judge it but its wrong

[Lincoln]

:lmao:lmao:lmao how's that pujols and CJ pickup working out for you?

[The Gemini Method]

laugh all you want at the CJ Wilson deal, but for how Pujols started and having the most (tied with Trout) HRs since July 1st it's looking better than it initially did. at .285/.346/.538 from the point where the boos were consistent is just fine. The pitching/bullpen is responsible for the horrid position the Angels are in.

As for Trout--it will be hard for many people to vote him MVP, but he has been the one constant for the Angels all year. No one on a team that wasn't playoff bound has won it since A-Rod in 2002 (Coincidentally, the year the Angels won its first and only WS). Matt Kemp should've won the MVP last year but the Doyers were not a winning team and well, the fact that Ryan Braun was juicin' made things even more suspect. Will he win it? I don't know--but he deserves a hard look and hopefully he will.

[Fabbs]

Lets put it this way:

Name one player on any MLB team which said team would NOT trade straight up for Trout.

End of story.

[monosylab1k]

Rangers fans really can't make the "his team isn't winning enough" argument when A-Rod won the MVP as Texas finished dead last in the West.

[Chris]

Lets put it this way:

Name one player on any MLB team which said team would NOT trade straight up for Trout.

End of story.

Justin Verlander
Felix Hernandez
Matt Kemp
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Gonazales

There's a lot more, but you get the point.

Put Trout on a bad team like the Astros and they probably won't be .500. It also helps when you have Albert Pujols batting behind you.

[TheNextGen]

Justin Verlander
Felix Hernandez
Matt Kemp
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Gonazales

There's a lot more, but you get the point.

Put Trout on a bad team like the Astros and they probably won't be .500. It also helps when you have Albert Pujols batting behind you.

lol...this guy would rather have Adrian Gonzalez then a 21 year old Mike Trout. Good thing you arnt the GM for the Rangers.

[Chris]

lol...this guy would rather have Adrian Gonzalez then a 21 year old Mike Trout. Good thing you arnt the GM for the Rangers.

Mike Trout hasn't proven anything, it's his rookie year.

[Bieber Fever]

Justin Verlander
Felix Hernandez
Matt Kemp
Miguel Cabrera
Adrian Gonazales

There's a lot more, but you get the point.

Put Trout on a bad team like the Astros and they probably won't be .500. It also helps when you have Albert Pujols batting behind you.

Could probably add names like Andrew McCutchen, Joey Votto, Robbie Cano and Stephen Strasburg too. There might be an argument teams would trade those players straight up for Trout because of his age and being under control for several years. But based on talent, which is more about his value, theres several players teams wouldnt trade straight up for Trout. Trout should get some serious mvp consideration but its not a runaway yet and if the Angels miss the playoffs that wont help him.

And Id agree with Gonzalez because of what the Dodgers already have. They have a mvp type CF already in Kemp and their outfield is full with Ethier and Crawford. Trout is a right handed leadoff outfielder and Gonzalez is a lefty middle of the lineup run producing 1B. Dodgers wouldnt trade him straight up for Trout because it doesnt make sense for their lineup.

[The Gemini Method]

Yeah, no due to the age factor as mentioned before and the fact that he hasn't even began to harness the talent he has into a more veteran existence in the league; there are very few you'd trade straight up and I'm certain everyone outside would select him if they had the chance (esp. the 21 teams that passed over him in the draft...)

Funny thing is: If both the Angels and Tigers miss out on the playoffs it will most certainly still be awarded to a non-playoff team. It is a distinct possibility with the Rays, Orioles and A's ahead of both the Tigers and Angels. Who knows how it'll play out but it should be an interesting conclusion to say the least.

[TheMACHINE]

^^its true....the only real MVP candidates imo is Miggy and Kid Fish. If both Detroit and the Angels miss the playoffs and someone else gets it....might aswell change the title to "MVP of a playoff team" since last year will also prove that with Kemp.

[Fabbs]

Mike Trout hasn't proven anything, it's his rookie year.
Elias made two other remarkable comparisons: Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson (1985) is the only other player in Major League history to reach minimums of .350, 15 homers and 30 steals before Aug. 1. Trout is also the first rookie to reach at least 80 runs scored and 55 RBIs in 81 games since Joe DiMaggio (87, 83) in 1936.

Currently at 110 runs scored in 116 games. :lol
Oh and another dinger for 26 on the year.

He's surely get 30 HRs and 50 stolen bases. :rollin

[Fabbs]

Rangers fans really can't make the "his team isn't winning enough" argument when A-Rod won the MVP as Texas finished dead last in the West.
monoslob.

[Chris]

Elias made two other remarkable comparisons: Hall of Famer Rickey Henderson (1985) is the only other player in Major League history to reach minimums of .350, 15 homers and 30 steals before Aug. 1. Trout is also the first rookie to reach at least 80 runs scored and 55 RBIs in 81 games since Joe DiMaggio (87, 83) in 1936.

Currently at 110 runs scored in 116 games. :lol
Oh and another dinger for 26 on the year.

He's surely get 30 HRs and 50 stolen bases. :rollin

Mike Trout is a good player, maybe even a great one. Maybe he deserves MVP because of his stats, but realistically Migs is going to win regardless. If Trout puts up the same numbers next year when pitchers have him scouted then you can throw him in there.

[TheMACHINE]

Mike Trout is a good player, maybe even a great one. Maybe he deserves MVP because of his stats, but realistically Migs is going to win regardless. If Trout puts up the same numbers next year when pitchers have him scouted then you can throw him in there.

LOL...MIKE TROUT with 2 lead off homers against Migs and the Tigers...sweeping the Tigers. :lol

[Heath Ledger]

Hamilton or Cabrera nobody else should be in a conversation for MVP.

[Fabbs]

Hamilton or Cabrera nobody else should be in a conversation for MVP.
Defense gonna count in this too or just one side of the ball?

Because neither one of them surpasses Trout on O. More homers for Hamilton? Okay, more runs scored for Trout. (On fewer at bats too).

With Trout missing a month, I'll bet his HRs/per at bat are equal to those two.
All three are coached by below ave coaches, but Fathead takes the cake by far.

[Flintstones32]

I think the MVP is Cabrera's to lose now

[Fabbs]

He's got a shot at the Triple Crown.

[Fabbs]

I think we are safe in saying that whomever wins, 2nd and 3rd place are gonna be the best 2nd and 3rd placers in years. Especially 2nd.

Today i'd say it's Cabreras to lose for sure. Hamiltons injury should assure he will not chase down C with RBIs (130-123) and may end up getting passed in HRs as he sits idle (42-41), but Trout could reverse his slump and nip Cabrera for the batting ave crown (.333-.326).

30 HRs 50 stolen bases .325 ave and Gold Glove defense coming in 2nd seems highly likely.

[TheMACHINE]

if cabrera gets the triple crown, hes getting the mvp.

[Fabbs]

At bats for the season:

578 Cabrera
520 Hamilton
519 Trout

MultiRanger what are your docs saying? Need to get Hamilton back ASAP. Cabrera passing him due to his being out is taking the thunder out of this race.

A great accomplishment by Cabrera regardless.

[Fabbs]

"The 21-year-old Trout is the youngest player with a 30-30 season. He needs two stolen bases to become only the third player ever with 30 homers and 50 stolen bases."

[Flintstones32]

As much of a Tigers fan I am as well as a fan of Cabrera, I thought this article made some great points on the MVP debate in favor of Trout.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/10-degrees--miguel-cabrera-s-triple-crown-push-overshadowing-mike-trout-s-mvp-season.html

[irishock]

Fuck off. 45 years in the making baby, he's the MVP.

[Heath Ledger]

Fuck off. 45 years in the making baby, he's the MVP.

I don't care what good points that fucking article makes, Cabrera has a chance at a triple crown, Trout is officially dead in the water for MVP.

[Heath Ledger]

if cabrera gets the triple crown, hes getting the mvp.


He's getting it even if he doesn't win the triple crown. f.y.i.

[Heath Ledger]

Cabrera just hit his 44th and jumps 4-5 points ahead of mauer in batting average.

[irishock]

Fuck off, Hamilton.

[Fabbs]

Trouts not going down without a fight.
4-4 so far. :toast

Wish he hadn't have tried the stretch double so he could have racked up another stolen base.

[The Gemini Method]

Split the award--both are deserving and both have their positives/negatives. Trout has 129 runs scored only two AL rookies have ever scored more in the history of baseball...ALL-TIME Ted Williams (131) and Joe DiMaggio (132) along with the 30HRs, 40+ SBs, and 80+ RBIs from the leadoff position. He is responsible for 41% of Pujols' RBIs and is as dominant in the outfield as he is on the plate. Cabrera is also having a monstrous season vying for the first triple crown in batting since 1967. He's not too bad in the field and is well deserving of the award. However, it would be tough to not give the award to a 21-year old who had missed a month and did what he did in a shorter amount of time.

I'd give it to Trout/but either way wouldn't be a travesty like last year's NL MVP race...

[Fabbs]

Trout has 129 runs scored only two AL rookies have ever scored more in the history of baseball...ALL-TIME Ted Williams (131) and Joe DiMaggio (132)
.....Trout had missed a month and did what he did in a shorter amount of time.
Wonder where Trout stacks up in runs per at bat ratio vs Ted Williams and DiMaggio?
129 runs in 551 at bats so far.

[The Gemini Method]

Wonder where Trout stacks up in runs per at bat ratio vs Ted Williams and DiMaggio?
129 runs in 551 at bats so far.

Very good question--I know the season was shorter in '36 and '39 but not to the extent of a month--which Trout missed--and you know the first month was Trout's Spring Training as well, so what he is doing is remarkable. Also the argument in 1936 is that less might've been harder 16teams vs. 30teams. It's a shame that he will have to wait another year to ply his trade in the postseason. Because this playoffs is going to be boring as all heck without the Angels to say the least.

[Bieber Fever]

No question that Mike Trout is the better all around player. The thing that always gets these debates going is how the voters define the word valuable. And I think thats why theres even a debate. If the award was for best player there wouldnt really be an argument. It would be Trout. But the MVP doesnt always go to the best player or best all around player. Sometimes its best player on a winning team. Sometimes its for most dominant offensive stats. Im going to agree with Gemini and say that either guy is deserving and it wouldnt be a travesty for one guy to win over the other. Both deserving. If Cabrera wins the TC its probably his especially since the Tigers are in the playoffs and the Angels just fell short. But if Trout wins I dont think anyone should be up in arms over that choice.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wonder where Trout stacks up in runs per at bat ratio vs Ted Williams and DiMaggio?
129 runs in 551 at bats so far.

It's an odd metric, but I'll indulge you:

Trout has scored .205 runs per plate appearance in 2012 and .234 runs per at-bat.

Those numbers are better than Williams and Dimaggio for the totality of their careers, but isn't as good as the best years that either Williams or DiMaggio had in that regard -- particularly Williams. In 1941, 1942, and 1946 (Williams didn't play at all between 1943 and 1945), Williams did the following:

1941 -- .223 runs/PA; .296 runs/AB
1942 -- .210 runs/PA; .270 runs/AB
1946 -- .211 runs/PA; .276 runs/AB

In fact, Williams was better than .234 runs/AB in 10 different seasons and was in the ballpark of that figure in three other seasons (1939 -- .232 runs/AB; 1957 -- .229 runs/AB; 1960 -- .233 runs/AB).

As an aside: every time I look at Ted Williams' career, I marvel to think about what he his totals would have looked like if he had been able to play those 3 years from 24-26.

[Fabbs]

It's an odd metric, but I'll indulge you:

Trout has scored .205 runs per plate appearance in 2012 and .234 runs per at-bat.
muchos gracias.
Can you see how Trout did vs this years competition? (Without jumping thru too many hoops).
Ted Williams yes all he did and then missing the war years to boot.

[DarkReign]

I honestly never knew the MVP award was so dependent on defense and stolen bases until this year.

Yet Gold Gloves are almost purely based on offense.

Learn something new everyday, I guess. Baseball is an incredibly fickle sport, it seems.

[TheMACHINE]

I honestly never knew the MVP award was so dependent on defense and stolen bases until this year.

Yet Gold Gloves are almost purely based on offense.

Learn something new everyday, I guess. Baseball is an incredibly fickle sport, it seems.

That because Trout's offense isnt too shabby either. Thats what makes this a closer race. You have "amazing offense" vs "great offense with great defense/baserunning".

[Fabbs]

I honestly never knew the MVP award was so dependent on defense and stolen bases until this year.
You mean like it should be every year, that being a players overall game? :lol
Unless there is some off the charts DH.

Look, we all know it's the Media Valuable Player award.
We're all pretty okay with Cabrera as the Triple Crown winner also pulling the MVP.
That some, make that many think Trout had a better overall year is fine too. :toast

[DarkReign]

That because Trout's offense isnt too shabby either. Thats what makes this a closer race. You have "amazing offense" vs "great offense with great defense/baserunning".


You mean like it should be every year, that being a players overall game? :lol
Unless there is some off the charts DH.

Look, we all know it's the Media Valuable Player award.
We're all pretty okay with Cabrera as the Triple Crown winner also pulling the MVP.
That some, make that many think Trout had a better overall year is fine too. :toast

I am not going to delve too deeply into the numbers because its quite boring. Bottom line: The Tigers play in a real shitty division.

Also a bottom line: When the Tigers needed Cabrera to be at his best (August+September) he was better than ever.
When the Halos needed Trout to be at his best (August+September) he was his worst all season.

Take it as it is.

[TheMACHINE]

Thats why whoever wins will be deserving.

[irishock]

Close this stupid ass thread

[Heath Ledger]

Fishboy gets R.O.Y. that is alll.

[Fabbs]

Cabrera is gonna win it, but got a kick out of this:

"The award's only tie occurred in the National League in 1979, when Keith Hernandez and Willie Stargell received an equal number of points."