Espn #NBArank

[Shifty]

UPDATE
Spurs listed:

16 Tony Parker
25 Manu Ginobili
27 Tim Duncan
95 Kawhi Leonard
149 Tiago Splitter
151 Stephen Jackson
155 DeJuan Blair
160 Danny Green
162 Boris Diaw
171 Gary Neal
208 Matt Bonner
309 Patty Mills
368 Derrick Brown*
458 Cory Joseph

Spurs players rankings (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank-sas-2012/2012-nba-player-rankings-san-antonio-spurs)


Original post:
If anyone is paying attention, the list has gone from 500 to 221 and the only Spurs listed so far are

458 Cory Joseph
309 Patty Mills

And Mills had this quote:

Patty Mills might be No. 309 on #nbarank, but he's the fastest guy in the league with the ball. Just ask the USA Olympics team.

Other Spurs related players are:

424 Anderson
488 Byars

Some very decent players have come up in the 200-300 lists while Spurstalk favorite Matt Bonner and DeJuan Blair are still not mentioned, meaning they are considered top220.

It's worth mentioning this list is not a consensus. A lot of people grade players from 1-10 and the average gives them their spot. For instance, I would think no one would trade anyone in the 221-240 list for either Bonner or Blair.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8316886/2012-nba-player-rankings-221-240

From memory I remember the Spurs doing well on average in previous years although not having anyone besides the big 3 on the top 100 or something. I'm sure Bonner, Blair and maybe Tiago are just about to come up. But I think the rest of the roster is going to be relatively high on the list. Would you consider the new role players, Kawhi, Green, Jax, Diaw top50? top100? Top 150?

[racm]

Kawhi's easily top 100.

[Aztecfan03]

no spurs in 201-220 either.

[Halberto]

32 teams in the league. You really think kawhi would average out to be at least the 3rd best player on the team?

I bet he goes top 150

[racm]

30 teams.

No doubt.

[AussieFanKurt]

Mills top 100 imho tbh

These lists are so subjective

[Andthentherewas21]

32 teams in the league. You really think kawhi would average out to be at least the 3rd best player on the team?

I bet he goes top 150

That also assumes that every one of those 30 teams has an average of 3 players better than Kawhi, not sure that is the case. For every Lakers or Heat, there is a Bobcats and Rockets. I don't think he cracks the 100 mark just because of him being a 4th option behind Tim, Tony, and Manu, but wouldn't be surprised if he just missed it.

[Drom John]

30 teams in the NBA.
And #198
Matt Bonner.

[Drom John]

Gary Neal #171

[Kidd K]

Leonard should be top 150, but I definitely don't see how he's top 100 unless he barely gets in at like the 95-98 area. He needs to improve more first. Let's see what improvements he makes this next season.


Btw guys, mathmatically, if you took the best 3 players from the starting 5 of every team, that's 90 players. Then you have teams with 4-5 good starters and a bench guy who's good. So being just outside of the top 100 isn't really a slap in the face for a 20 year old who is getting better.



At 171 with Gary Neal, San Antonio's lowest-ranked rotation guy would be the highest ranked player on the Charlotte Bobcats

lol.

[Seventyniner]

Boris Diaw at #162.

[AussieFanKurt]

These rankings amuse me

[Drom John]

Danny Green #160

[Drom John]

DeJuan Blair #155

[Drom John]

Stephen Jackson #151

[Shifty]

Most of the team should be listed today and tomorrow. Only the big3 will be top50 and Kawhi 80-120.

[Drom John]

Tiago Splitter #149

[sehui]

dejuan blair is rated waaaay too high

[Kidd K]

Surprised Splitter is rated higher than Jackson tbh.

[Juggity]

dejuan blair is rated waaaay too high

I agree. But from reading other teams' boards, there are a lot of people who think he's a pretty aggressive, rugged rebounder especially for his size, and he has a bit of a soft touch around the basket. In some ways, it's true. A few minutes of Blair off the bench can sometimes be beneficial because he's a "hustle" type player. But his defensive liabilities are just too great for him to be valuable in the long-term with a larger humber of minutes, or in a starting role.

[therealtruth]

Tiago Splitter #149

When Splitter was at his peak mid season he would have probably even deserved to go higher. I don't know why Pop struggles to maximize his value.

[Sean Cagney]

Mills top 100 imho tbh

These lists are so subjective

Based on what? A few games? Come on man be serious he is a backup PG :rollin:rollin

[8FOR!3]

Apparently Matt Bonner's better than Tristan Thompson so let's make the trade Pop!

[AussieFanKurt]

Based on what? A few games? Come on man be serious he is a backup PG :rollin:rollin

Sorry I forgot to write in blue

[Rapper]

I just concern about Timmy"s

[DMC]

It should be "blah blah blah" after 10 tbh.

[Drom John]

When Splitter was at his peak mid season he would have probably even deserved to go higher. I don't know why Pop struggles to maximize his value.

149 make Splitter 5th man quality.

[Fireball]

149 make Splitter 5th man quality.

Which he is IMO ...

[therealtruth]

Which he is IMO ...

I agree Pop has really misused Splitter. He's shown the capability to get 12-15 at 60+%, draw fouls, make good passes, and block shots. Yet you would almost never now it based on how Pop has used him.

[Fireball]

I agree Pop has really misused Splitter. He's shown the capability to get 12-15 at 60+%, draw fouls, make good passes, and block shots. Yet you would almost never now it based on how Pop has used him.

Hopefully he stays healthy in training camp. Remember that he did not have a full training camp in both of his seasons. Pop always stresses how important that is so there is hope ...

[timtonymanu]

It's amazing how much ESPN overrates Blair. Seriously 7th man and better than Green, Diaw, and Neal? Funny how the Spurs are finding it hard to trade him when ESPN puts him that high.

[mountainballer]

104 experts, each has to rank 500 players.
do you really think everyone has an idea about how well or bad Blair played over a whole season? those who are more familar with the Spurs for sure ranked him lower, but most just go with stats and and they see a guy, who delivered per40 numbers of 18 and 10 on decent 53%FG and that's why he finally ends up at #155.
the fact that Spurs couldn't find a taker proves that teams look beyond the stats before they offer something significant. (which is more than a 2nd rounder). even the badly managed teams do their homework.

[therealtruth]

Hopefully he stays healthy in training camp. Remember that he did not have a full training camp in both of his seasons. Pop always stresses how important that is so there is hope ...

I don't remember him missing training camp last year.

[Fireball]

I don't remember him missing training camp last year.

Except that there was no real training camp because of the shortened season. Pop always stresses that when talking about Kawhi so the same goes for Splitter. But I know what you mean ... technically there was a training camp.

[Shifty]

They got to player 101 and Kawhi did not show up. I still think he can be top80 if they rated him after summer league.

[mountainballer]

the team with the most top 100 players is.......
the Nuggets with 7!
and it's not even close. next best teams have 5. (Celtics, Mavs, Bulls, Pacers, Grizzlies, Thunder, Nets)
those will be good teams, but it doesn't make them top teams automatically. the more telling number will be, how many top 50 players a team has.

[Shifty]

The problem for the Nuggets is that they will probably have only one of those in the top50. For sure no one in the top20. Most other teams in the list will have at least 1 in the top15 and 2 or even 3 in the top30.

[bklynspursfan]

‏@NBAonESPN

#NBArank 95: Kawhi Leonard (@TheBig_Island).


https://twitter.com/NBAonESPN/status/245924849669787648

[007nites]

I just concern about Timmy"s

He will make top 20.

[Jess]

George Hill > Kawhi Leonard

:stirpot:

[Juggity]

George Hill > Kawhi Leonard

:stirpot:

:lol the Pacers can keep Hill. Never was too fond of him.

Kawhi will be top 50 by this time next year, and Hill will probably remain around the same rank.

[AussieFanKurt]

:lol the Pacers can keep Hill. Never was too fond of him.

Kawhi will be top 50 by this time next year, and Hill will probably remain around the same rank.

Big call being in the top 50, but I would like to/can see it happening nevertheless

[eric365]

He will make top 20.

I don't think he'll make the top 30

[irishock]

top 10 is locked to be Kobe-James-Durant-Paul-Dirk-Wade-D12-DWill-Rondo-Melo


Manu and Tony are top 20 while Duncan is top 30.

[timtonymanu]

I doubt Manu gets a higher ranking than Timmy. It shouldn't be far fetched to see Timmy make the Top 25 range. He got a #19 ranking last season where he looked pretty much done. He had a great season this year and I think he finishes around 25-28 but not Top 30.

[timtonymanu]

Oh and :lol Hill being higher than Leonard on the list.

[eric365]

top 10 is locked to be Kobe-James-Durant-Paul-Dirk-Wade-D12-DWill-Rondo-Melo


Manu and Tony are top 20 while Duncan is top 30.

I guess Tony at 17, Duncan at 32 and Manu at 29
With Harden higher than Manu :lol

[mrose31]

top 10 is locked to be Kobe-James-Durant-Paul-Dirk-Wade-D12-DWill-Rondo-Melo


Manu and Tony are top 20 while Duncan is top 30.

Parker deserves to be in top 10 last year he played better than Rondo, Melo, and DWill.

[FkLA]

Parker deserves to be in top 10

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Venti Quattro]

Jeremy Lin is ranked higher than Goran Dragic. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

[8FOR!3]

So far this list has been God awful.

[TE]

Jeremy Lin is ranked higher than Goran Dragic. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

:lmao

[Venti Quattro]

I love RealGM.


Jeremy Lin: #1-#2 option caliber player.

Goran Dragic: Career role player.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[mountainballer]

they are down to #31.
Tony, Tim and Manu will be ranked to 30.
I didn't expect them to still rank Manu that high.

[Shifty]

they are down to #31.
Tony, Tim and Manu will be ranked to 30.
I didn't expect them to still rank Manu that high.

Well, when he did played last year he did awesome. I even think they are going to rank him ahead of Timmy this time. Duncan and Manu top25, Tony top15 (he did turn some heads last year with his MVP consideration).

[Seventyniner]

As a guess, Parker 11, Duncan 24, Ginobili 28

[Shifty]

Timmy just came up at 27.

[Drom John]

Per 48, Duncan is top 10. For instance, Hollinger just demonstrated that Tim was arguably the best defensive player in the league, but ....

playing time matters. Less so for Tim when his replacement is Tiago, but as an individual player generally, those who play more (productively) are more valuable.

OTOH, having the third best player on the team rank as if a #1 player on a team, then the big three are BIG.

[Drom John]

Harden at #26.
I was prepared to be pissed when Harden was ranked ahead of Ginobili.
I'm not pissed.
I do expect Ginobili to be next at #25.

[Drom John]

Derrick Brown #368, 13th man.

[Manutrix]

BTW, Manu is 86 on new NBA 2k13... I think Paul Pierce is 84 or 85... Seems reasonable.

[Manutrix]

Wait a sec... WTF! Scola at #68. Give me a f*** break!!!

[Drom John]

Manu Ginobili #25

[Rapper]

How about Timmy's?

[007nites]

How about Timmy's?

87

Making him the 2nd or 3rd highest rated Center in the game. Depending on whether 2k rates Bynum higher or not. Btw KG is rated at 84.

[TD 21]

Not surprisingly, they underrated both Duncan and Ginobili. In the case of Duncan, lack of minutes isn't a viable excuse either, since he showed in the playoffs that he could play more typical starter minutes and still perform at a high level. There is no rationale for Garnett or M. Gasol being rated higher.

It just goes to show how many people either can't think for themselves, have no idea what they're watching (or both) and just base their opinion off of hype.

[therealtruth]

Not surprisingly, they underrated both Duncan and Ginobili. In the case of Duncan, lack of minutes isn't a viable excuse either, since he showed in the playoffs that he could play more typical starter minutes and still perform at a high level. There is no rationale for Garnett or M. Gasol being rated higher.

It just goes to show how many people either can't think for themselves, have no idea what they're watching (or both) and just base their opinion off of hype.

Duncan didn't convince me he could handle larger minutes against the Thunder. I think they did a good job of wearing him down. He was much less efficient than he was in the previous series.

[dylankerouac]

Duncan didn't convince me he could handle larger minutes against the Thunder. I think they did a good job of wearing him down. He was much less efficient than he was in the previous series.

Yeah, but you gotta remember the WCF had the least amount of time between games beyond the second game. The Spurs and aging trio would have enjoyed the rest vs the youthful trio that the Thunder have - Timvp showed all season the positive effect that rest had on Duncan.

This year the NBA should include more rest between games which should help if the Spurs can repeat history and make the WCF.

[Proxy]

Not surprisingly, they underrated both Duncan and Ginobili. In the case of Duncan, lack of minutes isn't a viable excuse either, since he showed in the playoffs that he could play more typical starter minutes and still perform at a high level. There is no rationale for Garnett or M. Gasol being rated higher.

It just goes to show how many people either can't think for themselves, have no idea what they're watching (or both) and just base their opinion off of hype.

Blake Griffin being above any of these guys is almost stupid as putting Jeremy Lin where he is.

[justinandimcool]

Roger Mason not in the top 500 :lol

[howbouthemspurs]

Manu is top 20 easily! Are you fucking kidding me?!

[Slutter McGee]

Manu is top 20 easily! Are you fucking kidding me?!

A bunch of ESPN writers disagree. But they do think he is close. The national media slighted a SPURS player. Stop the presses. Dude is 35. Who the fuck cares how he is ranked.

Slutter McGee

[justinandimcool]

seriously for someone who is 35, played only half a season, and was dick in the playoffs I'm very happy with his ranking....

[Drom John]

Tony Parker #16

[Juggity]

Manu is top 20 easily! Are you fucking kidding me?!

He's coming off a bad season where he missed half or more than half of the games played.

Honestly, he's pretty lucky to still be ranked as high as he is. Durability has to be part of the equation for best NBA players.

[mountainballer]

you can't argue with more than 100 experts.
#16 for Tony seems still a bit low, considering he was all NBA 2nd team and finished 5th in the balloting for the 2011-12 MVP. (only a few points behind CP and Kobe, who are 3rd and 4th).
so they ranked 5 PGs higher than Tony. (Paul, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, Williams).
between the lines, this also means they don't believe that Tony can deliver another season like the last one.

[Kidd K]

you can't argue with more than 100 experts.
#16 for Tony seems still a bit low, considering he was all NBA 2nd team and finished 5th in the balloting for the 2011-12 MVP. (only a few points behind CP and Kobe, who are 3rd and 4th).
so they ranked 5 PGs higher than Tony. (Paul, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, Williams).
between the lines, this also means they don't believe that Tony can deliver another season like the last one.

You can always argue with anyone man. I'd say for the most part they got it right, but that doesn't mean they got it right about everything. But just for example, they have Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, etc, above Ginobili, Horford, Smith, Zach Randolph, etc. I mean gimmie a break. I like Gasol, but what? I like Irving, but lol? Better than those guys last year? No fuckin way. Does he have a lot of potential? Yes. Was he that good already? No. So their list is very arguable. Though, I'm not really trying to debate their list or base of knowledge, but let's not act like their opinions can't be argued. I'm sure you don't agree with some of the placement too.

Anyway, I wanted to talk about the Parker comment mostly (agreeing with your assessment that they think he won't repeat the performance).

It's weird that anyone would think that, when that arguably wasn't even the best season of his career. 08-09 Parker would've destroyed 11-12 Parker. 08-09 Parker being pre-injury Parker. Hurt in 09-10, recovered in 10-11 but with a slightly lesser role. Fully recovered in 11-12, but lockout led to a slow start for him that dragged down his averages some.

Statistical difference for 08-09 Parker vs 11-12 Parker:

PPG: +3.7
RPG: +0.2
APG: -0.8
SPG: -0.1
TO: same

FG%: + 2.6%
3pt%: +6.2%
FT%: -1.7%
FTs/FTAs: +0.1/+0.3

eFG%: +2.5%
TS%: +1.7%
AST%: -0.2%

Offensive rating: same
Defensive rating: +1 (which means slightly worse)


Tbh, last year wasn't an abbaration. He was that good/better before the plantar fasciitis. At least he was a bit more of a reliable and efficient scorer.

I could see him being better than last year tbh. Better scoring and similar/better assist totals. To go along with the underrated (above average but not amazing) defensive ability. He's the cornerstone of the team now since Duncan and Manu are older.

[ambchang]

So Duncan had similar/slightly better stats than Garnett in less minutes, his team did better, and yet Duncan ranked half a dozen spots lower? What gives?

[DAF86]

Tim Duncan "age: 26"

If only :depressed