Where would you rank the 2000-2001 Lakers?

[TIMMYtoZO]

Would you consider them as one of the GOAT or the GOAT?

[lefty]

158th

[DeadlyDynasty]

One of.

[baseline bum]

The first five are easy to pick:

1. 1983 Sixers
2. 1986 Celtics
3. 1985 Lakers
4. 1992 Bulls
5. 1987 Lakers

Not sure how I'd pick the next 5 though, as the next tier of title teams is probably the 68 Sixers, 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers, 84 Celtics, 88 Lakers, 89 Pistons, 95 Rockets, 96 Bulls, 97 Bulls, 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 01 Lakers, and 08 Celtics.

[LkrFan]

The first five are easy to pick:

1. 1983 Sixers
2. 1986 Celtics
3. 1985 Lakers
4. 1992 Bulls
5. 1987 Lakers

Not sure how I'd pick the next 5 though, as the next tier of title teams is probably the 68 Sixers, 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers, 84 Celtics, 88 Lakers, 89 Pistons, 95 Rockets, 96 Bulls, 97 Bulls, 99 Spurs, 00 Lakers, 01 Lakers, and 08 Celtics.

Good list BB, but where are the 72-10 Bulls? I'll get grief from my fellow Laker fans but they are the greatest team I ever saw. Of those 10 losses, it think it was by some absurdly low amount of points. I'm to lazy to look it up but I think it was like 10 points.

Anyway, if I were to rank the teams, it would go something like this:

1) 1996 Bulls
2) 1987 Lakers
3) 1985 Celtics
4) 2001 Lakers
5) 1999 Spurs

2001 Lakers had a great playoff run, but when you combine RS and playoff runs resulting in a title, the above is what I get.

And don't clean your monitors with Windex because it's not a misprint: I think the 1999 Spurs should be ranked that high. Their defense was devastating and would not let them be denied that year. They were locked in. But since it was a 50 game season, the * stays. ;)

[baseline bum]

I'd take the 92 Bulls over the 96 Bulls in a second, since Jordan was much more explosive on the 92 team and they won 67 games without any matchups against Vancouver nor Toronto. I also think the 85 Lakers are a really underrated team when you consider that Abdul-Jabbar was still an MVP-caliber player, McAdoo was still on the team, and that they destroyed a really amazing Celtics team.

[LkrFan]

I'd take the 92 Bulls over the 96 Bulls in a second, since Jordan was much more explosive on the 92 team and they won 67 games without any matchups against Vancouver nor Toronto. I also think the 85 Lakers are a really underrated team when you consider that Abdul-Jabbar was still an MVP-caliber player, McAdoo was still on the team, and that they destroyed a really amazing Celtics team.

1996 Bulls had three interchangeable absolute bulldog defenders in Pippen, Rodman, and MJ (in that order). 1992 Jordan was more explosive than he was in 1996, but it was just the reverse for Pippen + they added Rodman to tilt the scales.

Besides, I don't give MJ too much credit in 1992. In 1991, Pippen took on Magic - not MJ - which freed him up to go off offensively. Plus we had some rookie named Vlade Divac anchoring our defense. At least they beat a potent Sonics team (with an inept coach) in 1996.

In 1992, the beat the fun and gun Suns who couldn't even spell defense.

[baseline bum]

They beat the Blazers in 92, and that Suns team they beat in 93 was ridiculously talented (though the Bulls had a down year).

[LkrFan]

They beat the Blazers in 92, and that Suns team they beat in 93 was ridiculously talented (though the Bulls had a down year).

:lol my bad. Got my years mixed up. I remember him dominating Drexler that year. I concede your point although I still think '96 was a better team.

[DMC]

Just below "doesn't fucking matter"

[phoenix219]

1996 Bulls had three interchangeable absolute bulldog defenders in Pippen, Rodman, and MJ (in that order). 1992 Jordan was more explosive than he was in 1996, but it was just the reverse for Pippen + they added Rodman to tilt the scales.

Besides, I don't give MJ too much credit in 1992. In 1991, Pippen took on Magic - not MJ - which freed him up to go off offensively. Plus we had some rookie named Vlade Divac anchoring our defense. At least they beat a potent Sonics team (with an inept coach) in 1996.

In 1992, the beat the fun and gun Suns who couldn't even spell defense.

Why does the Suns no-defense reputation proceed backwards well before they were a 7SOL team? Barkley's laziness cost us that title, but that team could definitely play defense.

[Stalin]

:lol my bad. Got my years mixed up. I remember him dominating Drexler that year. I concede your point although I still think '96 was a better team.

your bad, indeed

[TIMMYtoZO]

15-1/23-1(it really should have been 15-0/23 game win streak if the Robert Horry didn't commit that offensive foul with a 5 point lead in OT in game 1 of the Finals) should not be overlooked. The Lakers were 48-26 because Kobe/Shaq were battling each other on the court for most of those 74 games. I don't even like the Lakers, but that 2001 team was historic because of that dominant late run. That was a defending champion who finally found their championship identity starting 4/3/01 in Utah.

[JoeTait75]

Re: the 1996 Bulls... obviously they were a great team. But it was an expansion year, the league was watered down as all leagues are in expansion years, and the East aside from Orlando (which lost Horace Grant early in the ECF) was a joke.

2001 Lake Show was actually more dominant in the playoffs than the '96 Bulls. I thought the 76ers did well to win one game in the Finals.

[LkrFan]

Re: the 1996 Bulls... obviously they were a great team. But it was an expansion year, the league was watered down as all leagues are in expansion years, and the East aside from Orlando (which lost Horace Grant early in the ECF) was a joke.

2001 Lake Show was actually more dominant in the playoffs than the '96 Bulls. I thought the 76ers did well to win one game in the Finals.

I can't really argue with your points against the '96 Bulls, but the fact remains is they were a few botched possessions and poor end game play execution from going 82-0 for real. Look up the box scores, IIRC they didn't lose more than one game by double digits that year. Along their way to ringing, they still had to play the Sonics, Shaq/Kobe Lakers twice, Utah twice, Houston twice, the Knicks were still good, etc. But yeah, it was watered down.

Although they didn't have a 20/10 low post player, they had like 4 bigs that could collectively give them that number offensively, with 24 fouls to strategically give defensively to wear down the likes of Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson. They also had Rodman who could defend all 5 positions. That's just the frontcourt. On the perimeter, Scottie and MJ were locking players down the vast majority of times with a few exceptions. That's just defensively. Offensively, MJ was a threat to go for 40 or 50. Scottie would give his regular all around effort plus doberman like defense.

They were perfectly constructed IMO. They had scorers, passers (Scottie and Kukoc), rebounders, and shooters. It didn't hurt that MJ had the refs in his back left pocket. :lol

[TIMMYtoZO]

I can't really argue with your points against the '96 Bulls, but the fact remains is they were a few botched possessions and poor end game play execution from going 82-0 for real. Look up the box scores, IIRC they didn't lose more than one game by double digits that year. Along their way to ringing, they still had to play the Sonics, Shaq/Kobe Lakers twice, Utah twice, Houston twice, the Knicks were still good, etc. But yeah, it was watered down.

Although they didn't have a 20/10 low post player, they had like 4 bigs that could collectively give them that number offensively, with 24 fouls to strategically give defensively to wear down the likes of Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson. They also had Rodman who could defend all 5 positions. That's just the frontcourt. On the perimeter, Scottie and MJ were locking players down the vast majority of times with a few exceptions. That's just defensively. Offensively, MJ was a threat to go for 40 or 50. Scottie would give his regular all around effort plus doberman like defense.

They were perfectly constructed IMO. They had scorers, passers (Scottie and Kukoc), rebounders, and shooters. It didn't hurt that MJ had the refs in his back left pocket. :lol

The Lakers were 1 Robert Horry fuckup from going 15-0. It took LA beating themselves in overtime to lose that only game. The Bulls did go 72-10( and could have gone better than that), but the 01 Lakers were much more dominant in the postseason. Fishers deadly shooting, Fox's lockdown D, Horry's clutch shooting and intangibles, Grant/Shaw/Lue for quality minutes and the best 1-2 punch in the league to go with the best coach of all time.

[LkrFan]

The Lakers were 1 Robert Horry fuckup from going 15-0. It took LA beating themselves in overtime to lose that only game. The Bulls did go 72-10( and could have gone better than that), but the 01 Lakers were much more dominant in the postseason. Fishers deadly shooting, Fox's lockdown D, Horry's clutch shooting and intangibles, Grant/Shaw/Lue for quality minutes and the best 1-2 punch in the league to go with the best coach of all time.

Agreed, but you don't have to convince me how special that 2001 team was. I remember it well. What actually pissed me off is that the Lakers' FO fucked up and traded NVE, then EJ and Campbell for Rice. Imagine what PJ could have done with this lineup:

NVE/Fish
Kobe/EJ
Fox
Horry
Shaq/Campbell

^ This team would have done MAJOR damage to the NBA. That 2001 team was special, but it could have been better and the Lakers would have had more than the 3peat they achieved.

Trying to be as non-biased as possible, I can't deny the 1996 Bulls' team their due tbh.

[scanry]

1. 1986 Celtics
2. 1972 Lakers
3. 2001 Lakers
4. 1996 Bulls
5. 1983 Sixers

Top 5 IMO. The 1992 bulls were dominant in the reg season, but they looked fairly beatable in the post season.

[dunkman]

The '01 Lakers team was historic. Horace Grant replacing AC Green made a lot of difference from the '00 team.

[Venti Quattro]

The only road bump during the playoff run was when Allen Iverson walked over Tyronn Lue.

[baseline bum]

The '01 Lakers team was historic. Horace Grant replacing AC Green made a lot of difference from the '00 team.

I think it was the Fisher injury more than anything. They learned to play without him and then went nuts the last 15 games of the season or so when he came back to provide a big shot in the arm.

[DJ Mbenga]

never thought I would see a fo fo fo fo . Lakers were one mistake away from pulling it.
this probably will offend spurs fans but I wonder how many titles would Duncan have if Kobe and shaq liked each other?

[Venti Quattro]

this probably will offend spurs fans but i wonder how many titles would duncan have if kobe and shaq liked each other?

1*

[Latarian Milton]

they didn't face much challenge from the rest of the league so its hard to say mayne, maybe they were really that good but you don't get no solid proof to support that idea when the best team they beat was the 76ers, while the spurs were struggling with a drought of talents before the arrival of parker & manu imho

[jacobdrj]

I started watching in 1996. I pretty much stopped watching the Finals from 2006 until 2011.
The 96 team was impressive defensively, and MJ's duel with Sean Kemp was so memorable. But that Bulls team hardly stuck me as a GOAT contender. They won a lot of games, but they did not feel domineering enough in the playoffs...

That 2001 Laker team had a fairly easy path to the Finals, and while they were the undisputed best team that season, I think it spoke more to the less than stellar competition that year. I actually felt that the 02 Laker team was far more complete.

It is hard for me to say. I wish I could have seen some earlier Finals to get a better sense of the different styles.

[baseline bum]

I started watching in 1996. I pretty much stopped watching the Finals from 2006 until 2011.
The 96 team was impressive defensively, and MJ's duel with Sean Kemp was so memorable. But that Bulls team hardly stuck me as a GOAT contender. They won a lot of games, but they did not feel domineering enough in the playoffs...

That 2001 Laker team had a fairly easy path to the Finals, and while they were the undisputed best team that season, I think it spoke more to the less than stellar competition that year. I actually felt that the 02 Laker team was far more complete.

It is hard for me to say. I wish I could have seen some earlier Finals to get a better sense of the different styles.

I think the only player on the 02 team who was better than the 01 version was Bryant. Fox especially seemed to nosedive and get old that year.

[baseline bum]

1. 1986 Celtics
2. 1972 Lakers
3. 2001 Lakers
4. 1996 Bulls
5. 1983 Sixers

Top 5 IMO. The 1992 bulls were dominant in the reg season, but they looked fairly beatable in the post season.

I just can't see the 83 Sixers as low as 5. They probably had the greatest starting lineup in NBA history with Malone, Erving, Toney, and Cheeks even with Iavaroni sucking at PF, and Bobby Jones was a really solid glue guy off the bench who played top-notch defense. They won 65 games despite playing in a tough eastern conference with Boston and Milwaukee and then destroyed the playoffs. I know Worthy was out for the Finals, but that 83 Lakers team they swept was still a juggernaut with Abdul-Jabbar, Magic, Wilkes, McAdoo, Nixon, and Cooper.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Lemme preface this by saying I'm biased and my opinion won't be swayed, but that 01 Laker team went through the playoffs like shit through a goose. Portland and San Antonio, and Philly got annihilated. Sacto kept it close for 3 games in the semis (due to their fastbreak tempo), but they got crushed in the most important game of that series (Game 3). Those lakers would just stomp a mudhole in opponents.

Hell, the only game they lost they were 9 days rusty and Philly needed 48 points from AI and fluke shots from Raja Bell and Eric Snow to escape in overtime.:lol

[baseline bum]

Lemme preface this by saying I'm biased and my opinion won't be swayed

Here you were trying to change godvine and it changed you instead :cry

[DeadlyDynasty]

btw, I've still yet to see anything more stylishly dominant than Kobe against Santo and Sacto in those playoffs. Goddamn that was fun to watch. Poetry in motion.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Also, in those days Kobe really was the best perimeter defender in the game and it wasn't close.

[Amaso]

I'd rank that 01 team in the top 5 somewhere. Like others have said, their regular season wasn't that impressive but you'd expect that coming from a team like the Lakers and with a veteran group that had already won a championship.

That was an amazing balance and collection of superstars + role players I've seen from any team ever assembled. The Lakers seemed like they weren't trying that entire playoffs and still only lost 1 game.

[Fabbs]

Their only legit title in the past 25 years. Congrats.

[DeadlyDynasty]

http://www.robotmutant.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ralph-supercut.jpg

I'm a scared and bitter spurfan!


There, there, Fabbs...

[baseline bum]

Also, in those days Kobe really was the best perimeter defender in the game and it wasn't close.

Fox was better.

[Fabbs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fotoERrBAjw

[Fabbs]

:lmao Kome defense.

[scanry]

Also, in those days Kobe really was the best perimeter defender in the game and it wasn't close.

You're really overrating Kobe on this one. It wasn't really perimeter defense that made them so dominant in 2001. I think Shaq's eyes lit up when Kobe got injured and everyone on that team pretty much started kissing his a$$ including Phil and do you em. When Kobe came back, he was joining a team that was a well oiled machine.

He was that unstoppable force that year. More importantly after Kobe got injured, Shaq started defended the paint. Shaq started acting like a big baby that year and it cascaded the following year.

[whitemamba]

:lmao Kome defense.

12-time All-Defensive Team selection:
First team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011[26][27]
Second team: 2001, 2002, 2012

:toast

[Amaso]

12-time All-Defensive Team selection:
First team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011[26][27]
Second team: 2001, 2002, 2012

:toast

Kobe should've gotten 1st team in 2001 and 2002... Gary Payton and Jason Kidd had the guard spots over him. I guess you could say he hasn't really deserved 1st team the past 2 years hes gotten it.

[scanry]

12-time All-Defensive Team selection:
First team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011[26][27]
Second team: 2001, 2002, 2012

:toast

You really think Kobe has played a lick of defense since 2009? He was clearly exposed in 2010 and the less we bring up the 2011 & 2012 playoffs, the better.

[scanry]

never thought I would see a fo fo fo fo . Lakers were one mistake away from pulling it.
this probably will offend spurs fans but I wonder how many titles would Duncan have if Kobe and shaq liked each other?

You forget the fact that Duncan was pretty dominant in his prime as well. I don't think the Lakers beat us in 2003 even if those two got along. Duncan pretty much beat the Lakers by himself that year.

2005 could've gone either way, but considering Kobe's new contract and the supporting cast, i may have to go with the Spurs.

2006: Pretty sure Shaq would've been out of shape.

2007: The back gives in and Shaq gets more out of shape.

2008-2010: The Lakers don't win a championship with Shaq on board.

I guess the Lakers benefited from all of this. :wow

[irishock]

Not even as good as the 1999 Spurs.

[LkrFan]

Not even as good as the 1999 Spurs.

:lmao