Buy or Sell: Arizona Cardinals

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Now before people go ape-shit, consider a few things:

-They're 9-2 in their last 11 games, despite shaky-at-best QB play.

-Of those 2 losses, one of them was a close one-possession loss at Cincy last year--the other was a 23-7 loss @SF before Thanksgiving.

-The defense has quietly been of the best in the league going back to last year.

-They haven't given up more than 23 points in a game since 10/30/2011--a game in which they blew a 24-3 lead @Baltimore.

If nothing else, I think you definitely have to BUY their defense being the real-deal

[Clipper Nation]

I'll buy them, tbh.... that defense is beastly, and if either Kolb or Skelton develop into a solid starter (and both have shown flashes), that's going to be a scary-ass team...

[JMarkJohns]

You have to sell. They have four turnovers in two games, have just two TD drives of more than 8 plays in two games, have had two starting quarterbacks in two games, and have only won these two games because they dominated the kicking game, mostly defensively. Can't count on a blocked punt/field goal every game, and when your average margin of victory is like 4 points, when luck balances out with them acting like typical Cardinals, I don't even think their defense, which is top-5 in the NFL, can salvage their woeful trends.

Will they compete for .500? Sure. Will they possibly even make the playoffs? Only if the NFC West is as pathetic as its been the last few years. Could they win a playoff game? Without homefield, I don't think there's a chance, and I don't see them taking the division, so there goes homefield.

But their defense and special teams may be the two best in those respective categories in the NFL. Only reason that defense broke late yesterday was Horton went prevent, playing off and giving Brady too many seems.

[DontStopBelieving]

Bottom middle tier tbh.

[The Gemini Method]

Don't sleep on the Cards' D as they went up to Foxboro, sight of the massacre a few years back, and beat one of the supposed Super Bowl contenders. Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett and Patrick Peterson are holding that side of the ball up. I would say that the QB will be the undoing unfortunately. I need Larry Fitz to start picking up some FF pts though...the running game is kinda horrid. I'm going to have to sell though I want to buy.

[JMarkJohns]

They don't have an offensive line, they don't have a running game without mistake/injury-prone players, and they don't have much in the way of even a game-managing QB as their two-headed monster of Skelton/Kolb has two turnovers in two games. Not horrible, but if you have a TO a game from the QB position, you'll lose a few you shouldn't.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

The Cards front 7 is pretty swole, imo. Calais Campbell is a beast--anybody know where he played college ball?

[J.T.]

They fall into the same category as SF right now: Should've gave Peyton a reach around when he visited as a FA

[J.T.]

The Cards front 7 is pretty swole, imo. Calais Campbell is a beast--anybody know where he played college ball?

Well it sounds like he's doing well in the NFL so definitely wasn't coddled at Texas

[The Gemini Method]

They fall into the same category as SF right now: Should've gave Peyton a reach around when he visited as a FA

No. While Arizona will be improved--SF is not one dimensional anymore. I would say SF is top-tier and Arizona would be in the middle somewhere.

[JMarkJohns]

Campbell was a mid-round pick out of The U...

Save for quarterbacks and runningbacks, the Cardinals draft well at about every position. If they'd just draft some offensive lineman, that running game would improve.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Sell. They don't have an elite QB which is what you need to win in this current era. They also had a shot at Peyton Manning and failed. A great D is only going to get you so far.

[mojorizen7]

I'll buy them, tbh.... that defense is beastly, and if either Kolb or Skelton develop into a solid starter (and both have shown flashes), that's going to be a scary-ass team...

This(sort of). Add to that their scary-ass return game. Their D will wear down though if their offense doesn't begin to resemble an NFL offense at some point.
Soooo...i'm selling.

[JMarkJohns]

They shouldn't have pandered to Fitzgerald. Ignoring the size of the contract they gave him, which is now one of the worst in sports since Fitz can't be thrown-to consistently, but in the last two offseasons Arizona traded a pro-bowl corner (think how great their defense would be if they still had DRC) and a 2nd-rounder in 2012 for Kolb, and used their 2012 1st on Floyd.

What they should have done was evident even back then... keep DRC, add Peterson, then find a serviceable veteran for a year or two, someone like Orton or Jason Campbell, then this last year build the offensive line with their first two picks, as they could have had the Steelers draft with no problem. Add DeCastro, Adams and then Massie later, re-sign Brown and add another veteran, and now you have a restocked offensive line that can protect the QB and make a legit trench push for their two RBs, one of which was a 1st, the other a 2nd-rounder.

They'd literally be in no-worse a QB situation since Skelton was the winner through training camp, and while they wouldn't have a now-pine-riding rookie WR, they'd have a legit offensive line, an even studlier defense and special teams, and they'd have Kolb's contract off their books, possibly giving them enough to offer the 20-per Manning was looking for.

[pawe]

I'd buy.
I hope I dont sound like a homer but I really think the defense is elite.
Linebacker corp is solid specially the way Quentin Groves played against the Pats. Campbell and DD wrecking havoc in the middle; and god damn Campbell is like a freaking tower in there.
Secondary will be the strength of this team since Horton is a CB coach.
and...PP21!!! The Cards found another use for him in the wildcat formation. How versatile is this guy!

Offense:
Kolb is a bust with his fragile body and happy feet while his counterpart Skelton is still a 50% and 1 int per game backup no matter what the coach tells the media. If Whiz can just forget his pride and play to the strengths of the QB like the way harbaugh did with Alex Smith and play safe then I think they can survive. But Kolb just really pisses me off with his unnecessary running.

WR Floyd is not seeing action on the field but he will be a beast once he gets to line up with Fitz.

Heap played great but is still injury prone and Housler is a great catching TE. Good thing they have good TEs because coach Whiz tends to favor TEs.

LT no matter if the starter Levi Brown is healthy is the weak link.

- Everyone is saying the Cards are just lucky and they are winning games only by a very small margin but they have been like this since last year and they are used to the kind of ugly wins and games decided on last plays. I really believe on Horton and what he's doing with the defense. More positives on this team than negatives.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Cards fans, what is Floyd's story? Is he injured or is it something else? I had high hopes for him (and obviously wish Buffalo would've drafted him).

[mojorizen7]

They need to stop drafting at the top of the draft for skill positions at some point(excluding QB of course).
They've got a stable of quality WR's,return guys and RB's. They've ignored the OLine and they cant win any battles up front.

They also need pass rushers.

[pawe]

Cards fans, what is Floyd's story? Is he injured or is it something else? I had high hopes for him (and obviously wish Buffalo would've drafted him).

Andre Roberts and Early Doucet is playing well...thankfully.
It's only a matter of time though before Floyd can see some action because Doucet is injury prone.
I dont believe in "earning your minutes" rule. Whiz has to put Floyd in to free Fitz.
Fitz only had a 1 4yd catch against the Pats :vomit

[symple19]

They need to stop drafting at the top of the draft for skill positions at some point(excluding QB of course).
They've got a stable of quality WR's,return guys and RB's. They've ignored the OLine and they cant win any battles up front.

They also need pass rushers.

This

Love the defense, though.

Whisenhunt should get credit for somehow keeping them competitive despite an awful FO

[tlongII]

Buy. You don't beat the Seahawks and the Pats in your first 2 games unless you're good. I don't care how lucky you were.

[symple19]

:lmao seahogs

[tlongII]

:lmao seahogs

The Seahawks are damn good.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

The Seahawks are damn good.
No, they're the same old "look like worldbeaters at home, but incompetent on the road" Seahawks.

[tlongII]

No, they're the same old "look like worldbeaters at home, but incompetent on the road" Seahawks.

No, they're damn good. They will be in the mix for the NFC Championship this year. Book it!

[tlongII]

Eliminate two dropped passes in the end zone and they would be 2-0.

[Trainwreck2100]

if you're playing that game, eliminate the timeout they should have never received and they lose anyway

[tlongII]

if you're playing that game, eliminate the timeout they should have never received and they lose anyway

Doesn't matter. It's only one loss. They are definitely going to be a playoff team.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Doesn't matter. It's only one loss. They are definitely going to be a playoff team.
I'll bet you $500 they don't.

[DPG21920]

:lmao tlong broke son

[JMarkJohns]

The Cardinals' execs need to make the tough, but smart decision and hire Horton as head coach this offseason.

Whiz is an offensive guy and the offense has sucked despite multiple high picks going to offensive skill positions to bolster his side of the ball. I've not been impressed with how he has handled any QB battle, and Horton is the key to the defense, which is the best in the NFL.

In three weeks the Cardinals defense has allowed two touchdowns, against teams that otherwise have practically scored almost at will. That's Horton, not Whiz.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Rod Graves is even less deserving of his job. He's fucked up so many early picks as the GM and has fucked up several key contract negotiations (Dansby, Rolle, Boldin, etc.). IMO both whiz and graves should have lost their job last year, but Whiz is much more deserving of his job than Graves is.

Good DC =/= Good head coach either. I'd keep Horton at a position he's successful at.

[JMarkJohns]

I get that, and Whiz is an example as he was a successful offensive coordinator and it hasn't necessarily translated to head coaching success without a Hall-of-Famer at QB.

But Horton has a finger on the pulse of this defense. He's pushing all the right buttons and has turned a defense that just three years ago was among the worst in the NFL in pass rush and pass defense and made it absolutely dominating, despite losing several key defensive players (Smith, Dansby, Rolle, DRC).

I'd be plenty content with Horton remaining a highly-paid DC, but Whiz sucks and has not proven himself in offensive line philosophy, rushing philosophy (despite 1st and 2nd-rounders at the position), QB philosophy, or down-field attack philosophy. He's basically useless, riding the coattails of Warner's ability, and now Horton's success.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I agree completely, I'd just much rather they keep Horton as the DC and get a better head coach.

[JMarkJohns]

He was a candidate for a few gigs this past offseason. If this Cardinals team gets the playoffs, he'll be a top candidate. Maybe the brass says no on releasing him from his contract, but that's rare. I just figure he's a head coach next year, so if so, I'd rather have him than Whiz. Ideal world keep Horton as DC and bring in a proven offensive HC.

I just hate Whiz... I once loved Grimm, but he seems worthless now, too.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

What do Cards fans feel about the QB situation right now? I know it sucks and it's not what you ultimately want, but Kolb looks like he's earned the starting nod until proven otherwise.

You kept waiting for him to make terrible decisions against NE and Philly, but he stayed within his limited talents and made the smart plays. His QBR is good and he's looking for Fitz--and Floyd now. Let him play a Trent Dilfer role and ride the defense, amirite?

Cards upcoming schedule is insanely favorable.

[kskonn]

He was a candidate for a few gigs this past offseason. If this Cardinals team gets the playoffs, he'll be a top candidate. Maybe the brass says no on releasing him from his contract, but that's rare. I just figure he's a head coach next year, so if so, I'd rather have him than Whiz. Ideal world keep Horton as DC and bring in a proven offensive HC.

I just hate Whiz... I once loved Grimm, but he seems worthless now, too.

I was under the assumption that a coach could get out of his contract as long as he was moving/interviewing for a position that was a promotiion. I know it is up to the team if it is a lateral move but I was pretty sure that if it was a vertical move there was nothing a team could do if the guy wanted to leave.

[JMarkJohns]

What do Cards fans feel about the QB situation right now? I know it sucks and it's not what you ultimately want, but Kolb looks like he's earned the starting nod until proven otherwise.

You kept waiting for him to make terrible decisions against NE and Philly, but he stayed within his limited talents and made the smart plays. His QBR is good and he's looking for Fitz--and Floyd now. Let him play a Trent Dilfer role and ride the defense, amirite?

Cards upcoming schedule is insanely favorable.

You stick with Kolb until he gets injured or suck two games in a row. No need to flippantly mess with chemistry.

And the easy upcoming schedule will tell you a lot, because the Cards of old always played up/down to their competition. If they make it to 6-0, I'll be convinced they can contend, similar with the 49ers of last season.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

What makes this Cards defense more impressive than that of SF (imo) is the time they spend on the field. Cards can't run the ball 1/10th as good as the Niners and their defense logs major minutes b/c the offense isn't a good one--yet they still play at a dominant level and beat good teams. Both are anchored by great middle linebackers though. Willis is the best in the league and Campbell is quickly rising in the ranks.

[Kai]

Buy their D, sell their O.

[JMarkJohns]

What makes this Cards defense more impressive than that of SF (imo) is the time they spend on the field. Cards can't run the ball 1/10th as good as the Niners and their defense logs major minutes b/c the offense isn't a good one--yet they still play at a dominant level and beat good teams. Both are anchored by great middle linebackers though. Willis is the best in the league and Campbell is quickly rising in the ranks.

Which is one of the reason I sell long-term contention, because they'll log too many plays and wear down.

I think you mean Washington, not Campbell, who's a 3/4 down lineman upfront. Washington is arguably the second best. His tackles hit your hard, his pass defense is really strong, and he's a sideline-to-sideline defender who's in the backfield 10 times a game.

[JMarkJohns]

I was under the assumption that a coach could get out of his contract as long as he was moving/interviewing for a position that was a promotiion. I know it is up to the team if it is a lateral move but I was pretty sure that if it was a vertical move there was nothing a team could do if the guy wanted to leave.

This could be right, but I remember when the Cardinals contacted the Steelers about coordinators, the Steelers protected their LB coach, as I recall, as they want him to succeed LeBeau, and left Horton unprotected for interview, so I am not sure if this is true.

What is common is allowing talks for promotions.

[Ryan Fitzpatrick]

Which is one of the reason I sell long-term contention, because they'll log too many plays and wear down.

I think you mean Washington, not Campbell, who's a 3/4 down lineman upfront. Washington is arguably the second best. His tackles hit your hard, his pass defense is really strong, and he's a sideline-to-sideline defender who's in the backfield 10 times a game.
derp...you're right

[JMarkJohns]

They do need to develop a run game in the worst way. Hopefully Wells getting healthy adds a late-season shot in the arm to the run game, adding a punch to short-yardage/goalline plays. If this happens, plus Kolb stays consistent and/or improves with Fitz, Floyd, Roberts and Heap, maybe this team has a bit more longevity.

[pawe]

They do need to develop a run game in the worst way. Hopefully Wells getting healthy adds a late-season shot in the arm to the run game, adding a punch to short-yardage/goalline plays. If this happens, plus Kolb stays consistent and/or improves with Fitz, Floyd, Roberts and Heap, maybe this team has a bit more longevity.

Beanie Wells has always been a mystery to me. He has not missed a lot of games but he always seem to have something bothering him health wise. I can never tell if he's healthy or not. And now he has turf toe...when Kolb had turf toe, it sidelined him for 2 or 3 weeks.

I also dont know what they want to do with the RB situation. I assumed Ryan Williams/LSH are for big gain runs since they are ruthless in cutting and Beanie for downhill short gains and closing out but that was not the case in the Patriots game where they gave the ball to Williams to close the game and fumbled it.

- As for DC Horton. Im afraid some losing team will scoop him up next year for the head coaching position as the Cardinals defense is making noise right now. I say the Cards try to keep him and pay im a head coach salary...Give him Grimm's money.

[kskonn]

This could be right, but I remember when the Cardinals contacted the Steelers about coordinators, the Steelers protected their LB coach, as I recall, as they want him to succeed LeBeau, and left Horton unprotected for interview, so I am not sure if this is true.

What is common is allowing talks for promotions.

I think Common practice is to ask for permission to speak with them but you don't have to if it is for a promotion. If you want to protect your guy you have to typically make up a position that is a promotion and is lateral to whatever they are being interviewed for. I.E. Assistant head coach.

[JMarkJohns]

That may very well be true, I just distinctly remember the Steelers not allowing the Cardinals to interview their LB coach for the DC position they eventually hired Horton for, so that was a promotion, yet they still needed permission.

That's what I recall.

[JMarkJohns]

The offensive line got gang raped today. If they are to continue this, they need to develop plays and schemes that get the ball out quickly, and maybe implement some screens to make an over-zealous defense pay for constantly rushing a linebacker.

[JMarkJohns]

Bruce Arians new head coach. I like the hire so long as the rumors of him getting rid of Horton are false. Arians on offense, Horton on defense, I'd really like this for a few years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Be surprised if he dumps Horton as he'll quickly figure out doing so will dig him a big hole with the fans.

[JMarkJohns]

It might be a "can Horton handle being passes over" thing more than anything else?

After how well last offseason went, everyone, Horton included, figured he would be a head coach. Will be interesting to see how he handles not getting one of the eight available.

[Clipper Nation]

Bruce Arians new head coach.

Meh.... he was run out of Pittsburgh on a rail for being a stubborn playcaller, and it seems like he's getting overhyped because the Colts vastly overachieved this year and won a disproportionate amount of close games.... not sure the Cardinals made the right choice here...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Meh.... he was run out of Pittsburgh on a rail for being a stubborn playcaller, and it seems like he's getting overhyped because the Colts vastly overachieved this year and won a disproportionate amount of close games.... not sure the Cardinals made the right choice here...
It's all pretty much a moot point as long as they don't have a left tackle or QB. The cards are 3-5 years away from effectively rebuilding imo, so it was more important to find a coach who can evaluate talent than anything else. Idk if Aryans is that guy, but I hope he doesn't have the ego Whisenhunt had where he wants to show the world he can build a great offensive line with mid-late round picks.

[Clipper Nation]

If I were the Cards, I'd have promoted Horton, at least he got the defense playing well and was largely sought after as a HC candidate...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If I were the Cards, I'd have promoted Horton, at least he got the defense playing well and was largely sought after as a HC candidate...

I agree. He deserved it and we know the players respected him. If Arians doesn't retain Horton he'll be off to a bad start with the fans I doubt he recovers from.

[JMarkJohns]

I have it on good report thd job was Horton's until his "offensive staff" was brought up, and the guy didn't have the contacts to fix what ailed Arizona. If AZ could have brought in Haley for OC with Horton as head coach, it would have been quality, but he was talking about promoting the Steelers RB coach to OC and pluck some college guy for QB and the brass wasnt having it.

Arians overachieved which is generally a sign of better coaching. That said, without an o-line, it wouldn't matter if AZ had Luck.

[JMarkJohns]

From what I'm hearing, I expect Horton to get his walking papers via mutual decision, which destroys this hiring of a 60-YO never was.

[JMarkJohns]

Official. Got a text right as I read this: http://www.arizonasports.com/?sid=1602958&nid=132

[JMarkJohns]

I cannot say how pissed I am. All the hope I had upon the firing is destroyed. Horton was AZ's best coach in a long damn time. Offseason is a clusterfuck....

[Clipper Nation]

Chargers hired Whisenhunt as the offensive coordinator, btw...

[JMarkJohns]

Horton to Cleveland.