Sean Elliot throws out the race card.

[sickdsm]

Even if its a reverse, i think this is just crap. He's no better than LeBatard or any of those other idiots. Plus, who even thinks of Manu as "white"?


"Rasheed Wallace was asked why Ginobili was so tough to guard earlier in the series. Wallace refused to give Ginobili his due, stopping just short of putting him down as a player while making it clear he did not think Ginobili was a special talent. Sean Elliott, the former NBA forward who now works as a radio and TV analyst for the Spurs, has seen this dismissive behavior before by NBA players when it comes to Ginobili. He believes it goes much further than merely professional jealousy. "When you have a Dirk Nowitzki or Larry Bird-type players, big guys who play their positions well, there's not a lot of backlash," Elliott said. "But when you have a 6-6 white guy beating the black player at his own game, then it's a little different. Every series he's been in, guys have been slow to give him respect. It's an amazing phenomenon." Washington Post

[Pistons < Spurs]

WOW

I like Elliot a lot, but that comment was pretty bad. He was just stating his opinion, which he has the right to do. But to bring race into it is ridiculious. Like sickdsm said....Manu is not considered "white".

[atlfan25]

i don't have a problem with what Elliott said, it could be true. i consider him white, if he is not white then is he brown or black? possibly green? looks white to me

larry bird has said he'd be insulted when they put a white player on him to defend him.

[atlfan25]

you have a link to this story?

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Manu is white. If you can call an African American "black" than you can call Manu, white.

Have any of you seen or do any of you know what the color black looks like?

Tim Duncan is not black but he's called a black man.

Manu is not white, nor is any person who is called white.

I still don't even know why the hell we even use colors to describe people.

Fucking racist history.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's wrong with what Sean said? I'd wager he has a MUCH better finger on the pulse of players in the league than you or I.

[sickdsm]

Then perhaps Kori should shut down the forum since no one has a "finger on the pulse" like he does and no one should talk.


Its more racist to consider there only being white or black. Manu is considered neither. Its about as relevent as considering Tiger Woods chinese first and fairmost.

I guarandamntee you that most people consider manu foreign or argetenian before white.


If this was Joe Dumars commenting on Tayshaun Prince you'd have a bug up your ass about it.

[3rdCoast]

Manu is white. If you can call an African American "black" than you can call Manu, white.

Have any of you seen or do any of you know what the color black looks like?

Tim Duncan is not black but he's called a black man.

Manu is not white, nor is any person who is called white.

I still don't even know why the hell we even use colors to describe people.

Fucking racist history.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[sickdsm]

Manu is white. If you can call an African American "black" than you can call Manu, white.

Have any of you seen or do any of you know what the color black looks like?

Tim Duncan is not black but he's called a black man.

Manu is not white, nor is any person who is called white.

I still don't even know why the hell we even use colors to describe people.

Fucking racist history.


In one breath you say manu is white.

Than in another you bitch about how its because of racism that we use colors to desribe people. When i went to the park to play ball, i wasn't the kid with the duke shorts, the guy with the eclipse, none of that. I was the white kid. You would have been an idiot to desribe me as any otherwise if you wanted to get my attention and didn't know my name. If you DON"T point that out its obvious your worried about being labaled a racist for pointing out the obvious. Sure, people laughed at someone when i did i nice move on them but they would do the same as to ANYONE who was differnt.

"Dude with the purple hair schooled you on that crossover"

"did you just get dunked on by the guy wearing 'Roo's?"

I'm white, i burn somewhat easy, i have tan lines, somewhat lighter hair.


Acklowledging that does NOT make you racist.

[mookie2001]

theres 3 only three "races" of humans
if you call it race


i think sean was right

i guess all those chodes missed the olympics

[3rdCoast]

theres 3 only three "races" of humans
if you call it race


i think sean was right

i guess all those chodes missed the olympics

I am starting to like you more and more with each post. Good job, bro.

[davi78239]

To me, if you look white, you are white. Yes, Ginobili is a latino, but he is white. Not brown or black. I'm technically hispanic, but I look white and have been called white and marked white basically all my life and not hispanic. So basically, you are what you look like. No problems as to what Sean Elliot said.

[2centsworth]

np with sean especially since it's true.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

sickdsm,

Give it up. Maybe if your team wasn't one of the ones consistently punked by teams led by foreigners, you'd have a point.

Sean's got the evidence of players saying they want the Spurs to lose because of all the foreigners playing.

I don't see where you're going with this other than trying to throw Sean under the bus for calling it like it is.

[ObiwanGinobili]

1st off: I think Sean Elliot was right on the money. Althouhg admitadly that may be a comment you think more than yousay and be quoted on - just because of the way the world works.

2nd: Manu is white. even though recenrt science has shown that humans are so closely realted that race doesn't exist , there is still the "official" race groups. Which are basically white, black and yellow(asian).

MY husband is mexican -american born of mexican-spamish parents. His birth certificate says "white" , so do all his brothers.

My daughters birth certificate says "white".

I'm german, irish, cherokee, jewish, & black. But my birth certificate doesn't say "heinz 57" it says "white".

and ya know what?, as stupid as it is to fit humans into these littel peg descriptive boxes - it works alot better to call the three of us white. Casue we definatly arn't "black" or "yellow".

[davi78239]

More so, there are also a lot of latinos with spanish surnames like sanchez, gomez....that are also european blooded as well. For instance, Pepe sanchez for argentina and many others. Hell, look at Ricky Martin.

[FromWayDowntown]

I can't understand why anyone would give Sean heat about this.

Sean's point is that it's extremely hard to watch the 2005 NBA Playoffs and not walk away with the sense that Manu Ginobili is one hell of a basketball player, regardless of his race. Yet, when players around the league (mostly African-American players) are asked to comment on Manu, they don't give him much, if any, credit for the quality of his play. I think Sean's point is that had any number of young black players put up the kind of effort and numbers that Manu did, there would be little doubt about whether those guys would be getting serious respect from the same players (see, e.g., Joe Johnson, whose numbers, even before his facial fracture, were in the same ballpark as Manu's).

Sean's not being racist in his statement -- he's seeing racism. He's suggesting that other players see race as a huge factor when they evaluate their colleagues and that black players tend, without any good reason, to give more credit to smallish black guys than would be given to smallish non-black players.

[Phenomanul]

I can't understand why anyone would give Sean heat about this.

Sean's point is that it's extremely hard to watch the 2005 NBA Playoffs and not walk away with the sense that Manu Ginobili is one hell of a basketball player, regardless of his race. Yet, when players around the league (mostly African-American players) are asked to comment on Manu, they don't give him much, if any, credit for the quality of his play. I think Sean's point is that had any number of young black players put up the kind of effort and numbers that Manu did, there would be little doubt about whether those guys would be getting serious respect from the same players (see, e.g., Joe Johnson, whose numbers, even before his facial fracture, were in the same ballpark as Manu's).

Sean's not being racist in his statement -- he's seeing racism. He's suggesting that other players see race as a huge factor when they evaluate their colleagues and that black players tend, without any good reason, to give more credit to smallish black guys than would be given to smallish non-black players.


That's what I understood....

[Clandestino]

yes, mexicans are considered white... my birth certificate says white too... i think there are only a few colors they use...

that is why some surveys are like, white-of hispanic origin...

[Wallace ²]

Manu is white. If you can call an African American "black" than you can call Manu, white.

Have any of you seen or do any of you know what the color black looks like?

Tim Duncan is not black but he's called a black man.

Manu is not white, nor is any person who is called white.

I still don't even know why the hell we even use colors to describe people.

Fucking racist history.

Why do people call them African American if they didn't come from Africa? Only people that came from Africa are African American.

If you call people by where there ancestors came from, then I should be a European/Native American. I've never heard anybody call me that.

So if we use this type of logic, Manu is a South American American and Tim Duncan is a Caribbean American. Right?

I can only think of one true African American NBA player off the top of my head and that is Manute Bol. He came from Africa, thus he is African American.

If they were born in the USA, they are just American, not African American, or Hispanic American, just AMERICAN.

This is one thing that never made sense to me at all.

[Jelly]

Then perhaps Kori should shut down the forum since no one has a "finger on the pulse" like he does and no one should talk.


Its more racist to consider there only being white or black. Manu is considered neither. Its about as relevent as considering Tiger Woods chinese first and fairmost.

I guarandamntee you that most people consider manu foreign or argetenian before white.


If this was Joe Dumars commenting on Tayshaun Prince you'd have a bug up your ass about it.

Manu's race is caucasion -aka white. His parents/grandparents emigrated from Italy to Argentina. Most hispanics are darker complected because they are of Native American heritage or a mix of Spanish and Native American. Manu is of strictly European heritage. He is white.

[FromWayDowntown]

Identifying Manu's race isn't the question, really. The question is whether sickdsm's right or wrong in suggesting that Elliott has taken a "racist" tack in expressing his concern over the lack of respect Manu seems to get from his peers.

I just don't see it.

[sickdsm]

Telling me that manu is white bc theres only three races is like saying my grammer is bad, pointing out my spelling or saying the spurs aren't world champs.

he is and always will be FOREIGN! so will tony, peja, dirk, beno, etc... Conveneintly no one bats an eyebrow when theres a nice piece written about the forein connection, legion, melting pot etc... in san antonio.

I also see no one batted an eye when Aggie mentioned he's foreign. Whenever it fits your argument i guess...... But to aggies comments, unless your referring to something else not on here, there is nothing there that says the players want the spurs to lose bc of that. Remember, a good chunk of fans, probably the majority were rooting AGAINST the americans in favor of the other countries in the Olympics.

FromWayDowntown: I don't know what hype you've been listening to but manu has gotten much more than joe got. When the suns were winning the media was all over the SUNS, not one player in particular. after joe got hurt the big thing was that he came back hurt. How many years have we had to listen to GINNOOOOBBBBBLLII on TNT when the spurs weren't even playing? Let along not even that day?

All you yahoo's act like Rasheed is Gregg Poppovich, consistantly praising all there opponents. Name me ONE player that Rasheed faced in the playoffs in years past that he said was special.

My take on it is this:

Manu's been desribed by COUNTLESS columns and quips as a herky-jerky type, half out of control, risk taker, top speed kinda guy. He's acrobatic enough AND being a lefty gives you that feeling that "no way he's going to make that" and then does. LOTS of people have desribed him that way. He's the type of guy that makes weird flips, like he's flailing out of bounds and throws some crap up to draw a foul and it goes in. Thats' his game.


You WON"T get respect from players unless you do it the way they do it. Power dunks, acrobatic avoiding contact dunks like vince, layups, etc......

Even if Rasheed was going up against MJ he wouldn't have gave him props in that series though.

[FromWayDowntown]

he is and always will be FOREIGN! so will tony, peja, dirk, beno, etc... Conveneintly no one bats an eyebrow when theres a nice piece written about the forein connection, legion, melting pot etc... in san antonio.

He's foreign, but that doesn't change his race. That's like saying a Canadian like Steve Nash isn't white. You're parsing words to make an argument. Manu is both Argentinian and white, just as Bruce Bowen in American and black. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?


FromWayDowntown: I don't know what hype you've been listening to but manu has gotten much more than joe got. When the suns were winning the media was all over the SUNS, not one player in particular. after joe got hurt the big thing was that he came back hurt. How many years have we had to listen to GINNOOOOBBBBBLLII on TNT when the spurs weren't even playing? Let along not even that day?

You're right, but that's not Sean Elliott's point. Sean's point is that Manu deserves the respect of PLAYERS -- not the media. Nobody really gives a damn what the media thinks, but when you have other players flatly refusing to give respect to a guy who was clearly one of the 10 best players in these most recent playoffs, and the only unique trait for that guy is his skin color, you have to wonder -- at least a little bit.

You started this on the premise that Sean brought race into this. My point is that Sean's point was that everyone else is bringing race into the evaluation of Manu -- that if a black player approached the game the way Manu does and experienced the success that Manu did this post-season, his peers in the league would be according him great respect. Somehow, that kind of respect for Manu seems to come mostly from the media and his teammates, and not from his opponents. I think that's Sean's point, and if you see some racist slant in Sean's take, I'm just saying that I can't agree with you.

[Nikos]

You know in a sense I do agree that some players have a hard time giving Manu credit for his solid performances in the playoffs.

But Marcus Camby did give Ginobili credit after Game 3. So it's not completely correct to say he hasn't gotten any credit from his opponents (non International of course).


"I wish he was on our team," Nuggets center Marcus Camby said. "I remember when he was a free agent last summer. I was on the phone talking to him, trying to persuade him to come out there. But he was like, 'Yeah, Marcus, whatever."

"He's going to drive the ball to the basket no matter who's on him," Denver center Marcus Camby said. "I've never played against a guy that can maneuver his body and get to the paint as quickly and as often as he does.

"He's a tough cover for our guards. He's a tough cover for anyone who faces him."

Even Melo did give some respect despite his alleged attitude problems.


``I respect his game, I respect what he can do out there,'' Anthony said. ``I love watching him play, but I don't love watching him play now because we're playing against him.''


Other than that I think Nash gave him credit (surprise surprise it was him and no one else on the Suns).

[word]

[B]
I'm german, irish, cherokee, jewish, & black.

BWWAHAHAHA....

And I, am a chinese morman.

[FromWayDowntown]

You know in a sense I do agree that some players have a hard time giving Manu credit for his solid performances in the playoffs.

But Marcus Camby did give Ginobili credit after Game 3. So it's not completely correct to say he hasn't gotten any credit from his opponents (non International of course).



Even Melo did give some respect despite his alleged attitude problems.



Other than that I think Nash gave him credit (surprise surprise it was him and no one else on the Suns).

Well, and that's fair. I hate to generalize and will admit that I fell into that trap without first thinking to find out if anyone was an exception to the rule. Funny that Manu got respect from Nuggets players, while their coach was blasting Manu and their writers were ridiculing the dude. Then again, Camby comported himself with total class in that series, so it doesn't really surprise me that he would acknowledge Manu's game.

I still think Sean has a point.

[Uncle_Rico]

so manu is technically Italian. we could go on an on about this. dont forget about the german irish immigration to mexico. you have to know one thing, black people & mexicans dont catagorize everyone. you're either black, latino, or white. i dont care if you're black, you're black, i dont care if you're light skin, look white, whatever, you're black. if you're german, russian, native american, you're white. really if you look at it, manu doesnt look like latino guy. he looks white. so let me see, we shouldnt descibe someone of their color. so i gonna say the dude who is darker than everyone, that guy. the guy with a nice tan, doesnt burn. or the light pastey guy...

quit being overly sensitive people.

Here's a thought, maybe sean just wasnt paying attention. he might have messed up. maybe he meant foreign player, euro player, south american, i dont know, he looks white, so he said white. leave it at that.

one thing straight though, who the hell came up with the name HISPANIC. there is no fucking country of HISPANIA. always wondered that.

[FearDaDuncaN_SA]

Whoever came up with classifying humans by color is an idiot.
Obviously, it's more complicated than that!

Tsk Tsk

I'm a part of the human race. American, I might add. Need I say more?