Mitt on aircraft windows...

[ElNono]

Romney’s wife, Ann, was in attendance, and the candidate spoke of the concern he had for her when her plane had to make an emergency landing Friday en route to Santa Monica because of an electrical malfunction.

“I appreciate the fact that she is on the ground, safe and sound. And I don’t think she knows just how worried some of us were,” Romney said. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”

source (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-romney-beverly-hills-fundraiser-20120922,0,2317962.story)

[CosmicCowboy]

Really? Thats all you got?

[Th'Pusher]

He should google some of this shit before he says it.

Why can't you open a window on an airplane? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can't_you_open_a_window_on_a_plane)

[ElNono]

Really? Thats all you got?

?????

[ElNono]

He should google some of this shit before he says it.

Why can't you open a window on an airplane? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can't_you_open_a_window_on_a_plane)

It's not just the "sucking objects out"... the air density as altitude increases causes the well known Altitude sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness), which could end up in pulmonary or cerebral edema and can be fatal...

[ElNono]

Add to that Hypoxia and Barotrauma... the comment was retarded at several different levels...

[DMX7]

Was he serious or was that a tongue-in-cheek comment?

Regardless, Mitt is not a very bright guy. He's good at inheriting wealth and capitalizing off his father's business connections, but overall I don't think he's a very smart guy.

[baseline bum]

It's not just the "sucking objects out"... the air density as altitude increases causes the well known Altitude sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness), which could end up in pulmonary or cerebral edema and can be fatal...

I have actually had pulmonary edema from altitude, and it takes multiple days to develop. If you're flying really high you'd just black out and die. HAPE and HACE would be worries if you, for instance, spent three nights in the plane flying at 8000+ feet with the windows open.

[CosmicCowboy]

Plenty of oxygen to 10,000 feet. I've flown at 8k VFR with vents open from Texas to Colorado in a unpressurized cabin with no issues.

[CosmicCowboy]

With a onboard fire pilot in charge first job is to get below 10K so you don't have to depend on emergency oxygen systems. You put that bitch on her nose and push redline.

[CosmicCowboy]

He should google some of this shit before he says it.

Why can't you open a window on an airplane? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_can't_you_open_a_window_on_a_plane)

:lmao @ wiki answers. You should get out from in front of the computer more.

[Wild Cobra]

Add to that Hypoxia and Barotrauma... the comment was retarded at several different levels...
No it wasn't.

He was concerned and he is a layman on such matters.

Ignorant to the reasons, yes. Retarded, no.

Real malevolent the way liberals like you turn the focus on this rather than the aircraft's safety.

Door falls OFF private plane in flight and lands on golf course (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149428/Door-falls-OFF-private-plane-flight-lands-golf-course.html)

[Wild Cobra]

It's not just the "sucking objects out"... the air density as altitude increases causes the well known Altitude sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness), which could end up in pulmonary or cerebral edema and can be fatal...
Oh... My.... God...

You bring to us an argument calling Romney retarded, over his layman's lack of knowledge related to atmospheric physics, then don't call ignorance of the wiki answer's, answer?

Maybe you don't understand?

[ElNono]

Plenty of oxygen to 10,000 feet. I've flown at 8k VFR with vents open from Texas to Colorado in a unpressurized cabin with no issues.

Personal anecdotes are cute, but there's a reason the FAA mandates cabin pressure to top off at 8,000 ft at the highest plane altitude. You can trigger Hypoxia as low as 5,000 ft. Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

[ElNono]

he is a layman on such matters.

No shit.


Oh... My.... God...

You bring to us an argument calling Romney retarded, over his layman's lack of knowledge related to atmospheric physics, then don't call ignorance of the wiki answer's, answer?

I posted a quote. You're entitled to qualify it as you see fit. Same with the wiki answer posted. lol your god.

[ElNono]

I have actually had pulmonary edema from altitude, and it takes multiple days to develop. If you're flying really high you'd just black out and die. HAPE and HACE would be worries if you, for instance, spent three nights in the plane flying at 8000+ feet with the windows open.

What were you climbing?

[mavs>spurs]

Was he serious or was that a tongue-in-cheek comment?

Regardless, Mitt is not a very bright guy. He's good at inheriting wealth and capitalizing off his father's business connections, but overall I don't think he's a very smart guy.

Umm..no. Those consultants and venture capital guys are some of the sharpest guys around. If it were that easy, everyone would be a millionaire. Mitt just made a dumb statement in an area that he doesn't know anything about, he didn't go to school for physics.

[baseline bum]

What were you climbing?

Just the third night out a little under 11,000 feet while doing a backpacking trip. I never have had any issues with those kind of altitudes other than that one time though (I was sick a couple of weeks before, so I think that may have predisposed me to getting it that trip). The one you can get the first day is AMS, which is no big deal and usually clears up if you don't try to ascend while suffering symptoms. HAPE and HACE you have no other choice than to get to lower altitude quickly though.

[Wild Cobra]

Personal anecdotes are cute, but there's a reason the FAA mandates cabin pressure to top off at 8,000 ft at the highest plane altitude.
True.

You can trigger Hypoxia as low as 5,000 ft. Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

If at 5k, then why set to 8k?


Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.
No.

At 5,000 ft it's 83% of sea level.

At 8,000 ft it's 78% of sea level.

At 10,000 ft it's 69% of sea level.

Where did you get the 1/3rd from anyway?

[Wild Cobra]

I posted a quote. You're entitled to qualify it as you see fit. Same with the wiki answer posted. lol your god.
What was your motive for posting such an article, if it wasn't malevolence?

[Agloco]

You bring to us an argument calling Romney retarded, over his layman's lack of knowledge related to atmospheric physics, then don't call ignorance of the wiki answer's, answer?


Umm..no. Those consultants and venture capital guys are some of the sharpest guys around. If it were that easy, everyone would be a millionaire. Mitt just made a dumb statement in an area that he doesn't know anything about, he didn't go to school for physics.

:lol physics

He should try not saying anything of a technical nature tbh.

[baseline bum]

Personal anecdotes are cute, but there's a reason the FAA mandates cabin pressure to top off at 8,000 ft at the highest plane altitude. You can trigger Hypoxia as low as 5,000 ft. Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

That doesn't sound right. I know the concentration of oxygen molecules vs nitrogen molecules vs others in a volume of air is constant up to something like 120,000 feet, and the air pressure is something like 59% of sea level at 12,000 feet, which would mean you'd have 59% of O2 to breathe at 12000 vs 0 feet. 1/3rd would be something like high up on Everest.

[Wild Cobra]

lol physics
What is your take, or is that your best comment of the topic?

[Agloco]

What is your take, or is that your best comment of the topic?

That's all I've got boss.

[mavs>spurs]

Oh look it's mr scientist elitist rearing his ugly head. If it's so easy then why don't you just go take Mitt's spot at Bain then? You'd make a lot more than whatever the hell the IAEA is paying you.

[ElNono]

No.

At 5,000 ft it's 83% of sea level.

At 8,000 ft it's 78% of sea level.

At 10,000 ft it's 69% of sea level.

Where did you get the 1/3rd from anyway?


That doesn't sound right. I know the concentration of oxygen molecules vs nitrogen molecules vs others in a volume of air is constant up to something like 120,000 feet, and the air pressure is something like 59% of sea level at 12,000 feet, which would mean you'd have 59% of O2 to breathe at 12000 vs 0 feet. 1/3rd would be something like high up on Everest.

The percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere does not change with altitude, so it is about 21% at 10 000 feet.

What does change is the pressure. This declines with altitude. At sea level the air pressure is about 101 kPa (kilopascals). Oxygen accounts for 21% of this so the oxygen pressure is 19.6 kPa. This means that there are less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air at higher altitudes.

At 10,000 feet the oxygen pressure drops to 7.2 kPa, which is roughly one third of the pressure at sea level.

From here (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Percentage_of_oxygen_at_10000_feet_level)

The 1/3 coming from 7.2 kPA being about one-third of 19.6 kPA...

[ElNono]

Some of you missed the "same air volume" part, tbh

[Agloco]

The percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere does not change with altitude, so it is about 21% at 10 000 feet.

What does change is the pressure. This declines with altitude. At sea level the air pressure is about 101 kPa (kilopascals). Oxygen accounts for 21% of this so the oxygen pressure is 19.6 kPa. This means that there are less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air at higher altitudes.

At 10,000 feet the oxygen pressure drops to 7.2 kPa, which is roughly one third of the pressure at sea level.

From here (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Percentage_of_oxygen_at_10000_feet_level)

The 1/3 coming from 7.2 kPA being about one-third of 19.6 kPA...


http://i.qkme.me/3qb77g.jpg

[ElNono]

Just the third night out a little under 11,000 feet while doing a backpacking trip. I never have had any issues with those kind of altitudes other than that one time though (I was sick a couple of weeks before, so I think that may have predisposed me to getting it that trip). The one you can get the first day is AMS, which is no big deal and usually clears up if you don't try to ascend while suffering symptoms. HAPE and HACE you have no other choice than to get to lower altitude quickly though.

The problem with that stuff is that when your blood oxygen level drops below 90% (IIRC), it can cause further damage that could prevent re-oxygenation. You're correct that under HAPE/HACE you're required to drop down at least 1,000 ft and get oxygen, but even when you do that, the inflammation can affect pulmonary functions and make it longer to recover (or not).

[Wild Cobra]

The percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere does not change with altitude, so it is about 21% at 10 000 feet.

What does change is the pressure. This declines with altitude. At sea level the air pressure is about 101 kPa (kilopascals). Oxygen accounts for 21% of this so the oxygen pressure is 19.6 kPa. This means that there are less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air at higher altitudes.

At 10,000 feet the oxygen pressure drops to 7.2 kPa, which is roughly one third of the pressure at sea level.

From here (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Percentage_of_oxygen_at_10000_feet_level)

The 1/3 coming from 7.2 kPA being about one-third of 19.6 kPA...
Squrm why don't you.

I was correcting your statement:

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.
Why are you using wiki answers as fact?

How about something like Engineering Toolbox (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html) instead?

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Oh look it's mr scientist elitist rearing his ugly head. If it's so easy then why don't you just go take Mitt's spot at Bain then? You'd make a lot more than whatever the hell the IAEA is paying you.

I think someone else already took Mitt's spot at Bain, and booted his ass to the curb. :lol

[mavs>spurs]

Ehh Mitt was pretty successful there, and at a pretty young age. You can call him a lot of things..but people don't get that rich by chance. Stupid isn't one of those things you can say about him. Not very well spoken sometimes, maybe.

[Agloco]

Oh look it's mr scientist elitist rearing his ugly head. If it's so easy then why don't you just go take Mitt's spot at Bain then? You'd make a lot more than whatever the hell the IAEA is paying you.

lol possession oriented people

:cry What? Not everyone gauges their net worth by the size of their bank accounts? :cry

[Wild Cobra]

El NoKnow...

Your numbers approximately match 10,000 meters rather than 10,000 ft.

[Agloco]

Stupid isn't one of those things you can say about him. Not very well spoken sometimes, maybe.

Spin it however you'd like, but he comes across as plenty dumb when it matters tbh. I'd say he's fairly ignorant of physics and physiology as well, but that's only relevant to this latest gem.

[SA210]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/598798_501708906515721_525352671_n.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

Personal anecdotes are cute, but there's a reason the FAA mandates cabin pressure to top off at 8,000 ft at the highest plane altitude. You can trigger Hypoxia as low as 5,000 ft. Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

anecdotes :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

You are such a stupid fucking tool.

I've skied double diamond runs in Kachina basin at Taos for day after day at 12,000 feet and sleeping at 10,000. You are full of shit.

tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands do the 11,800 lift every year and a lot like me hike higher to get into the more extreme stuff...We are talking average ability people for the most part doing a lot of exertion running on the 11,800 lift.

Fucking tool. Throw your fucking crap out there like you are an expert and forget there are people out there to throw the bullshit flag.

[ElNono]

I was correcting your statement:

There's nothing wrong with my statement.


Why are you using wiki answers as fact?

How about something like Engineering Toolbox (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/standard-atmosphere-d_604.html) instead?

That actually agrees with my statement. Looks like Mitt wasn't the only layman when it comes to this stuff...

[ElNono]

anecdotes :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


I've skied double diamond runs in Kachina basin at Taos for day after day at 12,000 feet and sleeping at 10,000. You are full of shit.

:lol more anecdotes... talk about fool :lmao


tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands do the 11,800 lift every year and a lot like me hike higher to get into the more extreme stuff...We are talking average ability people for the most part doing a lot of exertion running on the 11,800 lift.

more anecdotes... :lmao

We're talking millions of people flying airplanes at well over 10,000 ft... *THAT* is what makes the comment patently retarded.


Fucking tool. Throw your fucking crap out there like you are an expert and forget there are people out there to throw the bullshit flag.

Tell me more anecdotes :lmao

[ElNono]

El NoKnow...

Your numbers approximately match 10,000 meters rather than 10,000 ft.

Do tell :lmao

[Wild Cobra]

There's nothing wrong with my statement.
Sorry, but there is plenty wrong. Your refusal to acknowledge your mistake, and stay with it would be comical, if it wasn't so sad.

[ElNono]

Sorry, but there is. And your refusal to acknowledge your mistake, and stay with it wou8ld be comical, if it wasn't so sad.

What's wrong about it? This should be good. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

What's wrong about it? This should be good. :lol
I already told you. Your pressures are wrong.

[ElNono]

I already told you. Your pressures are wrong.

How so? Where's the oxygen pressure in the link you posted?

[ElNono]

BTW, the table agrees with the known fact that at sea level, the atmospheric pressure is 101,325 Pa... (shown as 10.13 10^4 N/m2) on the table.

[Wild Cobra]

From here (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Percentage_of_oxygen_at_10000_feet_level)

The 1/3 coming from 7.2 kPA being about one-third of 19.6 kPA...
You should know better than to claim something from any "wiki" link without verification.

Your link is sourced from here (http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_3.htm).

It says:

The percentage of oxygen in the air at two miles (3.2 km.) is essentially the same as at sea level (21%). However, the air pressure is 30% lower at the higher altitude due to the fact that the atmosphere is less dense--that is, the air molecules are farther apart.
So...

Your wiki expert author takes two miles (10,560 ft) and 30% lower (70%) as meaning only 1/3rd...

Think this expert author may not be so expert, interpreting his source?

That 70% is very close to my 69% using Engineering Toolbox.

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, the table agrees with the known fact that at sea level, the atmospheric pressure is 101,325 Pa... (shown as 10.13 10^4 N/m2) on the table.
Aren't you dizzy yet from your lies?

I show you the truth, yet you hold on to ill informed information?

Why?

[ElNono]

You should know better than to claim something from any "wiki" link without verification.

Says who? You're still have to point out what's wrong with that.


Your link is sourced from here (http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_3.htm).

No it isn't. It says you can go there for further information.


Your wiki expert author takes two miles (10,560 ft) and 30% lower (70%) as meaning only 1/3rd...

No. The 1/3 comes from 7.2 kPa being about 1/3 of 19.6 kPA, as I already pointed out.


Think this expert author may not be so expert, interpreting his source?

That 70% is very close to my 69% using Engineering Toolbox.

The "Engineering Toolbox" is basically irrelevant to my statement, because it doesn't include oxygen pressure information.

You're still very confused. Keep googling.

[ElNono]

Aren't you dizzy yet from your lies?

I show you the truth, yet you hold on to ill informed information?

Why?

I'm still waiting for you to point out what's wrong... I'll keep playing Borderlands 2 while you keep trying...

Hint: you're not wrong either...

[Wild Cobra]

Why are you so hard headed?

It is so easy to verify what I say. You are looking like a total fool to everyone here.

How about from Spectral Calc?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/Pressurevsaltitude.jpg (http://www.spectralcalc.com/atmosphere_browser/atmosphere.php)

[howbouthemspurs]

Is it true that Romney could be more retarded than Bush? Obama has no competition! Its going to be a landslide for the President and republicans are going to continue crying.

[Wild Cobra]

Hint: you're not wrong either...
If you are saying I'm not wrong, but I am, then you must have missed at least one point I mentioned. If you are saying I missed a point, then please, by all means, explain.

It should be good.

[ElNono]

Why are you so hard headed?

It is so easy to verify what I say.

I didn't say you were wrong. You said I was wrong. I'm still waiting to hear why was I wrong...


You are looking like a total fool to everyone here.

:lmao


How about from Spectral Calc?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/spectralcalc/Pressurevsaltitude.jpg (http://www.spectralcalc.com/atmosphere_browser/atmosphere.php)

That's an atmospheric pressure graph.

[ElNono]

If you are saying I'm not wrong, but I am, then you must have missed at least one point I mentioned. If you are saying I missed a point, then please, by all means, explain.

It should be good.

You're not wrong. As far as I can tell, you're telling me what the atmospheric pressure is at 10,000 ft. My statement was about oxygen pressure at 10,000 ft.

[ElNono]

Is it true that Romney could be more retarded than Bush? Obama has no competition! Its going to be a landslide for the President and republicans are going to continue crying.

Barry and Joe have their own share of slip-ups, tbh...

[Wild Cobra]

That's an atmospheric pressure graph.
Yes, it is.

At 10,000 ft, the oxygen percentage remains at 21%. The oxygen drops to about 70% of what it is at sea level, not to 1/3rd its amount at sea level.

What am I missing?

Please expose my ignorance.

[ElNono]

Yes, it is.

At 10,000 ft, the oxygen percentage remains at 21%. The oxygen drops to about 70% of what it is at sea level, not to 1/3rd its amount at sea level.

What am I missing?

Please expose my ignorance.

You're missing:

A) Units
B) Volume of air

If you take, say, a square foot of air at sea level and you measure the oxygen pressure, you're going to get about 19.6 kPa (196 hPa). If you take the same square foot of air at 10,000 ft and you measure the oxygen pressure, you're going to get about 7.1 kPa (or 71 hPa).

Again, what you point out isn't wrong. What I said isn't wrong either.

[Wild Cobra]

You're missing:

A) Units
B) Volume of air

If you take, say, a square foot of air at sea level and you measure the oxygen pressure, you're going to get about 19.6 kPa (196 hPa). If you take the same square foot of air at 10,000 ft and you measure the oxygen pressure, you're going to get about 7.1 kPa (or 71 hPa).

Again, what you point out isn't wrong. What I said isn't wrong either.
You don't get it.

Your 19.6 vs. 7.1 numbers are wrong.

Check more sources instead of the BS source you are relying on.

[ElNono]

Your 19.6 vs. 7.1 numbers are wrong.

For the Nth time, do tell

[ElNono]

BTW, here's a nice calculator:

http://www.altitude.org/oxygen_levels.php

Select ft for units, type in 10000, then look at the PaO2 line.

You can also see the SaO2 line which is the measurement you're using.

[ElNono]

At any rate, this thread got derailed enough...

[Wild Cobra]

For the Nth time, do tell
You want another source? Is that it?

Supplemental Oxygen for the General Aviation Pilot (http://www.dr-amy.com/rich/oxygen/)

At sea level, 760 mm atmospheric pressure, oxygen partial pressure is 159 mm. At 10,000 ft, these numbers are 523 and 110. In both cases, the oxygen partial pressure is at ~21%.

It doesn't matter if you use Pascals, Bar, PSI, etc. it's all exchangeable.

760 mm equals 101.3 kPa and 523 equals 69.7 kPa. 21% of these numbers are 21.3 and 14.6 kPa.

Again, your numbers are wrong.

Your 19.6 number equates to about 700 mm, or about 2500 ft. Your 7.1 kPa number equates to about 254 mm, off of Table 2 that ends at 25,000 ft.

Again, your number represents about 10,000 meters. Not 10,000 ft.

Do you know the difference between feet and meters?

[MannyIsGod]

It's not just the "sucking objects out"... the air density as altitude increases causes the well known Altitude sickness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude_sickness), which could end up in pulmonary or cerebral edema and can be fatal...

You flat out can't breathe at the height planes fly. There's not enough oxygen at that altitude.

[MannyIsGod]

Plenty of oxygen to 10,000 feet. I've flown at 8k VFR with vents open from Texas to Colorado in a unpressurized cabin with no issues.

Most airlines fly at 3 times that altitude and the oxygen exponentially gets lower as you go up. 10k feet has much higher oxygen levels than simply going to 12 or 15k for instance.

[MannyIsGod]

No it wasn't.

He was concerned and he is a layman on such matters.

Ignorant to the reasons, yes. Retarded, no.

Real malevolent the way liberals like you turn the focus on this rather than the aircraft's safety.

Door falls OFF private plane in flight and lands on golf course (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149428/Door-falls-OFF-private-plane-flight-lands-golf-course.html)

LOL you're a layman and that doesn't stop you from thinking you're an expert in a lot of things.

[ElNono]

You want another source? Is that it?

Supplemental Oxygen for the General Aviation Pilot (http://www.dr-amy.com/rich/oxygen/)

At sea level, 760 mm atmospheric pressure, oxygen partial pressure is 159 mm. At 10,000 ft, these numbers are 523 and 110. In both cases, the oxygen partial pressure is at ~21%.

That isn't wrong, but it's not what I described. I already pointed out that the oxygen percentage is the same (21%) regardless of the altitude.

The oxygen pressure is what's different (that is, the amount of oxygen molecules on a given volume).

I just don't know how to dumb this down anymore so you get it, so it's just going to have to stay at this.

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, here's a nice calculator:

http://www.altitude.org/oxygen_levels.php

Select ft for units, type in 10000, then look at the PaO2 line.

You can also see the SaO2 line which is the measurement you're using.
Wrong on both accounts.

The PaO2 line matched with lung and arterial levels which are exchanging with CO2. When you have 7.1 partial O2, you also have 4.9 partial CO2.

You are not using atmospheric partial pressures. If that was your intent, you should have said so.

[ElNono]

Wrong on both accounts.

The PaO2 line matched with lung and arterial levels which are exchanging with CO2.

You are not using atmospheric partial pressures. If that was your intent, you should have said so.

Pa O2 = Pascal Oxygen (O2) Pressure Units. I've used Pascal Pressure Units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_%28unit%29) from the get go. If you missed it, it's your problem.

[Wild Cobra]

I just don't know how to dumb this down anymore so you get it, so it's just going to have to stay at this.

Yes, I know. You are incapable of understanding what you see, so you cant dumb down something that is already dumb.

[MannyIsGod]

Most airlines fly at 3 times that altitude and the oxygen exponentially gets lower as you go up. 10k feet has much higher oxygen levels than simply going to 12 or 15k for instance.

Actually I'll have to go back and look at my equations for hydrostatic pressure of the atmosphere because now I'm doubting this but I do think it was an exponential function.

[ElNono]

Yes, I know. You are incapable of understanding what you see, so you cant dumb down something that is already dumb.

Still waiting to hear what's wrong with my statement... lol

[Wild Cobra]

Pa O2 = Pascal Oxygen (O2) Pressure Units. I've used Pascal Pressure Units from the get go. If you missed it, it's your problem.
I didn't miss anything. You did. Look at the graphic at the lower right of the link as you update the values. When it says 7.2 partial O2, the line is between 7 and 8 for lungs and arteries. It is between 14 and 15 for the atmosphere.

[ElNono]

I didn't miss anything. You did. Look at the graphic at the lower right of the link as you update the values. When it says 7.2 partial O2, the line is between 7 and 8 for lungs and arteries. It is between 14 and 15 for the atmosphere.

I'm not using atmospheric values. How many times I have to repeat that?

I'm stating pressure IN A GIVEN VOLUME.

[Wild Cobra]

Still waiting to hear what's wrong with my statement... lol

I already told you.

You fail to comprehend.

[ElNono]

Whatever Cobra...

lol Mitt

[Wild Cobra]

Look at the red text to the right of the entry biox, and below the units.

"At 10000 feet (3048m), the barometric pressure is 71kPa (534mmHg). " for 10,000 ft.

"At 0 feet (0m), the barometric pressure is 101kPa (760mmHg). " for 0 ft.

Now... partial atmospheric pressure is 21% of each. 14.9 for 10,000 ft (between 14 and 15 on the graph) and 21.2 for 0 ft.

14.9/21.2 = 70%. It is more than 2/3rds the partial pressure. not 1/3rd.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not using atmospheric values. How many times I have to repeat that?

I'm stating pressure IN A GIVEN VOLUME OF THE ARTERIES.

[ElNono]

So what was wrong with my statement? crofl

[Wild Cobra]

So what was wrong with my statement? crofl

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.
It's simple.

At 0 ft, your partial pressure is 13.3 kPa by your calculator. It is 7.2 kPa at 10000 ft. That is 54%, not 33%.

Again you are wrong, like you always are against me.

Now 7.2 kPa is about 1/3rd of the partial pressure of the atmosphere, but you are now not using comparable measurements. Really now... Atmospheric partial pressure vs. arteries partial pressure?

When will you admit you are wrong?

[ElNono]

You still don't get it. Likely because you're stupid.

Time to sleep for me. PM me if you ever figure it out.

[Wild Cobra]

You still don't get it. Likely because you're stupid.

Time to sleep for me. PM me if you ever figure it out.
I'm sure that everyone following our exchange agrees with me rather than you.

Goodbye. You are such a sore loser.

[ElNono]

Time to install roll up windows on those 767 tbh...

[ElNono]

I'm sure that everyone following our exchange agrees with me rather than you.

Goodbye. You are such a sore loser.

You sound pretty maaaaad... lol

[Wild Cobra]

You sound pretty maaaaad... lol
No, just frustrated.

I thought you were smarter.

[ElNono]

Okay

[Wild Cobra]

What do you think of this?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/altitudedotorg.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

Food for thought ElNono...

Both Manny and Agloco have visited this thread. They always oppose me when they think they can. Why have they not supported your posts, or torn apart mine?

[ElNono]

.

[ElNono]

What do you think of this?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/altitudedotorg.jpg

A calculator to compute the barometric pressure...nothing wrong with it


Food for thought ElNono...

Both Manny and Agloco have visited this thread. They always oppose me when they think they can. Why have they not supported your posts, or torn apart mine?

Who cares? I'm not here seeking validation. And FWIW, Agioco did indeed support(?) my post right after I posted it... Food for thought indeed.

Perhaps the numbers are irrelevant in light of the actual topic: a completely retarded comment.

[Wild Cobra]

^ A calculator to compute the barometric pressure...nothing wrong with it
You still don't understand?

How do I dumb it down any farther.

Your 7.2 kPa number you rely on is the arterial partial pressure. Gas exchange is already in place, and mixed with gasses not fully expelled. The actual O2 partial pressure in the atmosphere is 14.9 kPa at 10,000 ft.

[Wild Cobra]

Who cares? I'm not here seeking validation. And FWIW, Agioco did indeed support(?) my post right after I posted it... Food for thought indeed.

No he didn't. Not the pressures we are debating on.

He initially had a single word to say, laughing at "physics." After I made a post asking if that's all he had, he edited his statement adding this:

He should try not saying anything of a technical nature tbh.
Not specifying who, but I assume Romney. Not me or Mavs.

Where did he support you on our current disagreement?

[Wild Cobra]

I still don't get it. Likely because I'm stupid.

Time to sleep for me. I'll PM you if I ever figure it out.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL you're a layman and that doesn't stop you from thinking you're an expert in a lot of things.
Some of us laymen know how to find the right answers. It doesn't take college indoctrination to understand how to research.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL you're a layman and that doesn't stop you from thinking you're an expert in a lot of things.
Not saying I am an expert, but partial pressures are very simple entry level physics and chemistry.

Please, by all means, tell me what I am wrong about in regards to my disagreement with ElNono.

I'm waiting, or are you just an ankle biter?

[Koolaid_Man]

Not saying I am an expert, but partial pressures are very simple entry level physics and chemistry.


hey Mitt was only recalling his past experiences..because on planet Kolob they can let the windows down @ 40 thousand feet going 500 miles / hr...:lol

Seriously I think Romney is entering orbit around planet zainey... he's been kidnapped and they've replaced him with Sarah Palin in one of those Hollywood rubber disguises. :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Ehh Mitt was pretty successful there, and at a pretty young age. You can call him a lot of things..but people don't get that rich by chance. Stupid isn't one of those things you can say about him. Not very well spoken sometimes, maybe.


once again there you go popping off at the mouth and don't know what the fuck you are talking about...this cracker :lol has been given a leg up in every area even when it came to the offshoot of Bain Capital...



From "The Real Romney:"

He saw the opportunity, of course, but he also saw risks. First, he felt comfortable in his life. He already had a great job and had five young sons at home. Second, he and the partners in the new firm would be expected to contribute significantly to the investment fund, and thus, if deals went south, they could lose their own money.

Romney explained to Bain that he didn't want to risk his position, earnings, and reputation on an experiment. He found the offer appealing but didn't want to make the decision in a 'light or flippant manner.' So Bain sweetened the pot. He guaranteed that if the experiment failed, Romney would get his old job and salary back, plus any raises he would have earned during his absence. Still, Romney worried about the impact on his reputation if he proved unable to do the job. Again the pot was sweetened. Bain promised that, if necessary, he would craft a cover story saying that Romney's return to Bain & Company was needed because of his value as a consultant. 'So,' Bain explained, 'there was no professional or financial risk.' This time Romney said yes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/ann-romney-speech-_n_1838228.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

additionally

Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html

[CosmicCowboy]

Personal anecdotes are cute, but there's a reason the FAA mandates cabin pressure to top off at 8,000 ft at the highest plane altitude. You can trigger Hypoxia as low as 5,000 ft. Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

:lmao

Fucking tool.

So if it's so fucking dangerous why isn't snow skiing illegal? Hundreds of thousands of skiers venture into your "death zone" every year and perform strenuous exercise and escape unscathed.

Anecdote, my ass.

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao

Fucking tool.

So if it's so fucking dangerous why isn't snow skiing illegal? Hundreds of thousands of skiers venture into your "death zone" every year and perform strenuous exercise and escape unscathed.

Anecdote, my ass.
Yes... A tool...

The 1/3rd sea level is what I saw as totally bogus when I read it.

I know better, yet ElNono hold on to that number for dear life. He acts as if he acknowledged an error, that he will die.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fucking tool totally dismisses real life if it disagrees with what he reads in wikipedia.

I used to do two week trips to Taos and never leave the resort. The freaking BASE AREA is at 9,207 feet. The Kachina lift goes to 11,819 feet. The house I rented was ski in/out about 400 feet above the base area. Nobody ever got sick or had any health issues and the thousands of other people skiing there seemed to be fine too...

http://www.skitaos.org/content/stats

[CosmicCowboy]

Managed to ski A Basin several times without dying too...

Vertical rise: 2,270 feet
Base elevation: 10,780 feet
Summit elevation: 13,050 feet

http://www.arapahoebasin.com/abasin/about/fact-sheet.aspx

[Wild Cobra]

additionally

Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html
Is the the loony lefts answer to what the right will be saying again about Obama's associations with Ares are Wright?

[CosmicCowboy]

Also cheated death and put my kids lives at risk for years at Crested Butte...had a condo there while my kids were growing up...we would venture into the death zone at least two weeks a year and usually three....

Summit Elevation 12,162 ft / 3,707 m
Base Elevation 9,375 ft / 2,856 m

http://www.skicb.com/cbmr/info/press-facts.aspx

And amazingly enough, before they put the high lift in for the x-games we would ride the silver queen lift and then take our skis off and hike another 500 feet or so up through the super death zone to ski the cliffs and the headwall. Although I survived some pretty spectacular crashes it never occurred to me that it was the altitude I should be terrified of...:lol

ElNono...wikipedia...pffft

[MannyIsGod]

Fucking tool totally dismisses real life if it disagrees with what he reads in wikipedia.

I used to do two week trips to Taos and never leave the resort. The freaking BASE AREA is at 9,207 feet. The Kachina lift goes to 11,819 feet. The house I rented was ski in/out about 400 feet above the base area. Nobody ever got sick or had any health issues and the thousands of other people skiing there seemed to be fine too...

http://www.skitaos.org/content/stats

To be fair I guarantee that people who are doing what you are getting altitude sickness. You may not be hearing about it and the vast majority of people may be fine but there are definitely a sizeable portion of people who are getting it.

That being said I don't think its particularly dangerous to go skiing. (for air reasons) :lol

[Wild Cobra]

I think ElNono gets all his information from liberal fear mongering sites.

[CosmicCowboy]

From FAA flight training manual:


By definition, electrical fires originate from electrical components. Often, we can detect an electrical fire before it really gets going. The first clue might be an over-voltage warning light, a higher than normal electrical load, or a popped circuit breaker. The acrid smell of hot insulation or visible white smoke also are common indicators — but don't be fooled. In one incident, white smoke filled the cabin of a Piper Arrow, leading the pilot and instructor to think they had an electrical fire. In reality, they had a fuel fire in the engine compartment, which had begun to melt the ducts that supply heated air to the cabin.

Once ignited, electrical fires burn just like any fire. One difference is that the heat from the energized electrical wiring or component that caused the fire might sustain it. For this reason, your first step if you have an electrical fire is to cut the power by turning off the master switch. By isolating the battery and alternator/generator, we remove the ignition source, and the fire should extinguish.

If the fire is already burning hot, cutting the power won't be enough. You'll need to use an extinguisher to squelch the flames — a tricky proposition if the fire is behind the instrument panel. Once the fire is out, some checklists suggest that we try to restore power and isolate its cause.

We can shut off all our electrical components, turn the master switch back on, and start turning on essential components one at a time. With any luck, a non-critical item will be the culprit, and we can continue on to land at the nearest airport.

Because reenergizing the circuits might recreate the situation that caused the fire in the first place, finding its cause might not be the best option. Another school of thought says we should communicate before cutting the power — if we have time — then refrain from reenergizing the system and possibly restarting the fire. This might mean a no-flap landing or lowering the landing gear manually, but it sure beats incapacitation and an early grave. It's a difficult decision to make, especially if we're on a night flight or in instrument conditions. A good flashlight (or three or four), a handheld transceiver, and a handheld GPS navigation receiver can come in real handy if a fire puts the electrical system out of commission.

If we have time to communicate before powering down the electrical system, we have three options. Call ATC, broadcast in the blind on the emergency frequency of 121.5 MHz, or tune the 7700 emergency code into the transponder and IDENT. Taking a few seconds to do any of these things before we shut down the electrical system might alert someone to the problem and bring fire/rescue services to the scene as we head for an airport. Finally, if it has a manual switch, we can activate the emergency locator transmitter. The beauty of the ELT is that it has its own power supply and will bring help to the scene of a forced landing should that become necessary.

Managing the smoke is another important part of dealing with an electrical fire. Here, too, you'll find different schools of thought. To continue breathing and to see well enough to maintain control of the aircraft, we might have to open the vents or vent window. Opening the pilot's vent window could be a mistake because it might pull the smoke right in front of the pilot, obscuring his vision.

Opening another vent, if available, or cracking a door might be a better option. Venting the smoke may improve breathing and vision — but it can also fan the fire's flames with fresh air. If this happens we have no option but to close the vents.

Regardless of how we handle the electrical system following a fire, continuing the flight any longer than is necessary is out of the question. An in-flight fire is extremely dangerous, and you must land immediately — at the nearest airport, if possible — but possibly at an appropriate off-airport site.

[clambake]

looks like humor has left the building.

[ElNono]

:lmao

Fucking tool.

So if it's so fucking dangerous why isn't snow skiing illegal? Hundreds of thousands of skiers venture into your "death zone" every year and perform strenuous exercise and escape unscathed.

Anecdote, my ass.

:lol you're not discussing with me the effects of high altitude on humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_high_altitude_on_humans).

People drink alcohol and wreck their bodies all the time too... why isn't alcohol illegal? lol strawmen

[ElNono]

Managed to ski A Basin several times without dying too...

Vertical rise: 2,270 feet
Base elevation: 10,780 feet
Summit elevation: 13,050 feet

http://www.arapahoebasin.com/abasin/about/fact-sheet.aspx


Also cheated death and put my kids lives at risk for years at Crested Butte...had a condo there while my kids were growing up...we would venture into the death zone at least two weeks a year and usually three....

Summit Elevation 12,162 ft / 3,707 m
Base Elevation 9,375 ft / 2,856 m

http://www.skicb.com/cbmr/info/press-facts.aspx

And amazingly enough, before they put the high lift in for the x-games we would ride the silver queen lift and then take our skis off and hike another 500 feet or so up through the super death zone to ski the cliffs and the headwall. Although I survived some pretty spectacular crashes it never occurred to me that it was the altitude I should be terrified of...:lol

ElNono...wikipedia...pffft

crofl the anecdotes keep on coming! :lmao

[ElNono]

From FAA flight training manual:

Managing the smoke is another important part of dealing with an electrical fire. Here, too, you'll find different schools of thought. To continue breathing and to see well enough to maintain control of the aircraft, we might have to open the vents or vent window. Opening the pilot's vent window could be a mistake because it might pull the smoke right in front of the pilot, obscuring his vision.

Opening another vent, if available, or cracking a door might be a better option. Venting the smoke may improve breathing and vision — but it can also fan the fire's flames with fresh air. If this happens we have no option but to close the vents.

Let's roll up those windows and fan those flames! That sounds like a great idea! Didn't you do that in one of your anecdotes? :lmao

[ElNono]

:lol @ "I've been at 10,000ft and nothing happened to me, therefore nothing happens to anybody else"

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao @ ElNono.

Gotta hand it to him. He's a stubborn little bitch.

[ElNono]

Gotta hand it to him. He's a stubborn little bitch.

:lol Cosmic Anecdote... "but science is overrated. I've skied at 12,000 ft therefore altitude sickness is fantasy"...

[CosmicCowboy]

It's not just me, dumbass.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rbR9hPqruWQ/SwnvFQem46I/AAAAAAAABEg/Aty_amHvl0g/s1600/IMG_0264-3.jpg

[cantthinkofanything]

Who cares what Mitt said about this. I bet until most of you looked it up, you thought the only reason not to open an airplane window was because, "IT SUCKS EVERYONE OUT THE PLANE NIGGA!"

[TeyshaBlue]

I used to have a cabin outside of Pitkin CO....about 11,500 ft. I was always sick as a dog for the first few days after I got there.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://blog.nj.com/skiing/2008/01/large_IMG_3942.jpg

http://www.mediasrvr.com/himg/620/360/true/10/unofficialnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/whistler_sat_lift_line.jpeg

[CosmicCowboy]

I used to have a cabin outside of Pitkin CO....about 11,500 ft. I was always sick as a dog for the first few days after I got there.

:wow

You ventured into the DEATH ZONE and lived?????

[ElNono]

LOL :downspin: this shit as DEATH ZONE...

If you're Cosmic Anecdote, when the plane drops down the oxygen masks in an depressurization event, you look around and call them wimps!

[ElNono]

And lol @ pictures... irrelevant unless you're saying we should keep all planes flying at 10,000 ft...

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL :downspin: this shit as DEATH ZONE...

If you're Cosmic Anecdote, when the plane drops down the oxygen masks in an depressurization event, you look around and call them wimps!

Keep beatin that strawman dumbass.


With a onboard fire pilot in charge first job is to get below 10K so you don't have to depend on emergency oxygen systems. You put that bitch on her nose and push redline.

I realize english is your second language but you should work on your reading comprehension.

With an onboard fire you get that bitch down and on the ground as fast as you can.

[TeyshaBlue]

Keep beatin that strawman dumbass.



I realize english is your second language but you should work on your reading comprehension.

With an onboard fire you get that bitch down and on the ground as fast as you can.


:wow

You ventured into the DEATH ZONE and lived?????

And that, somehow, isn't a strawman?

[CosmicCowboy]

And that, somehow, isn't a strawman?

Not when he makes the blanket statement


Over 10,000 ft you'll be dealing with physiological problems rather quickly...

[baseline bum]

I used to have a cabin outside of Pitkin CO....about 11,500 ft. I was always sick as a dog for the first few days after I got there.

Damn, you used to be a richer, TB? :lol gfy

[clambake]

mitts just talking about opening windows.

probably shouldn't let him sit next to the exit.

problem solved.

[TeyshaBlue]

Damn, you used to be a richer, TB? :lol gfy

Married into that cabin. Divorced myself right the hell out of it.:depressed:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

meh, I'm ready to call a truce on this one.

I'm glad the plane didn't crash.

A little coughing, burning eyes, etc. is a relatively small price to pay.

[baseline bum]

:lol you're not discussing with me the effects of high altitude on humans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_high_altitude_on_humans).

People drink alcohol and wreck their bodies all the time too... why isn't alcohol illegal? lol strawmen

Damn, that is an enormous bergschrund in the pic of K2 from your link.

[ElNono]

Keep beatin that strawman dumbass.

I realize english is your second language but you should work on your reading comprehension.

With an onboard fire you get that bitch down and on the ground as fast as you can.

My english isn't the problem here. And lol @ somebody telling me about reading comprehension when I post "dealing with physiological problems" and turns that into "DEATH ZONE" :lmao

Have another anecdote to tell? crofl

[ElNono]

meh, I'm ready to call a truce on this one.

I'm glad the plane didn't crash.

A little coughing, burning eyes, etc. is a relatively small price to pay.

Allright... I'm likewise pleased that the plane is safe and so are the occupants. This isn't what the thread was about, just the windows comment, which I found fairly retarded.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions though, obviously.

[DarrinS]

People didn't realize he was joking?

Wow. Epic media fail.

[Winehole23]

weird joke, tbh. did you laugh?

[Winehole23]

Romney looks very much like Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000: dogged by a raft of more or less scurrilous, media generated non-stories and bullshit (like the OP) that nevertheless do manage to convey to an urbane and discriminating American public, that Romney isn't ready for prime time...

drip, drip, drip . . .

[DarrinS]

Romney looks very much like Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000: dogged by a raft of more or less scurrilous, media generated non-stories and bullshit (like the OP) that nevertheless do manage to convey to an urbane and discriminating American public, that Romney isn't ready for prime time...

drip, drip, drip . . .


If, by "prime time", you mean appearing on The View or hamming it up with David Letterman, then I agree with you.

[clambake]

its mitt trying to appear like a regular guy. and failing. he's terrible at storytelling.

like his "we had to sell stock".........the horror!

[ElNono]

Barry being a giant douche doesn't make Mitt any less of a turd sandwich...

[CosmicCowboy]

We get it. You are in the bag for the douche.

[ElNono]

We get it. You are in the bag for the douche.

If "in the bag" means I'm not voting for him, then yeah, I guess.

Barry has been terrible president, IMO, stated so many times. The fact that Mitt can't seemingly capitalize on that perception says a lot more about Romney than it says about Barry, tbh...

[Winehole23]

If, by "prime time", you mean appearing on The View or hamming it up with David Letterman, then I agree with you.Romney's a turd. Has been from the beginning. easily the weakest and most flawed GOP nominee in quite some time. You can't polish that.

[DMC]

Whatever. I was on the runway when that plane landed and got to watch the show.

The windows were not open. It delayed my flight. Bitch.

[DMC]

its mitt trying to appear like a regular guy. and failing. he's terrible at storytelling.

like his "we had to sell stock".........the horror!
No one wants a regular guy running the country. No one wants an honest guy in charge. You have to be a career liar and rich man to even have a remote shot.

[Oh, Gee!!]

the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that.

same reason they don't put screen doors on submarines.

[clambake]

No one wants a regular guy running the country. No one wants an honest guy in charge. You have to be a career liar and rich man to even have a remote shot.

bush ran on "i'm a regular guy. lets have a beer"

[CosmicCowboy]

bush ran on "i'm a regular guy. lets have a beer"

Interesting tactic for someone that quit drinking long before he ran for President.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, Mitt is also amazed by touch screen sammich ordering.

He just flies in jets, he doesn't engineer them.

[clambake]

No one wants a regular guy running the country


bush ran on "i'm a regular guy. lets have a beer"


Interesting tactic for someone that quit drinking long before he ran for President.

does this help?

[cantthinkofanything]

Interesting tactic for someone that quit drinking long before he ran for President.

meanwhile...

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/obama-drinking-a-beer.jpg

[DarrinS]

bush ran on "i'm a regular guy. lets have a beer"

Beer summits should be reserved for cops that acted stupidly

[ChumpDumper]

Beer summits should be reserved for cops that acted stupidlyThe ones that arrest people for talking about their mommas.

[clambake]

obama made the right hate beer. lol

[ChumpDumper]

obama made the right hate beer. lolYou don't get your own planet to be God over if you drink beer in this life.

[clambake]

You don't get your own planet to be God over if you drink beer in this life.

but....but.....he had to sell stock!

[Clipper Nation]

bush ran on "i'm a regular guy. lets have a beer"

He also ran on a humble foreign policy and setting a good example instead of nation-building back in 2000.... :lol

[Clipper Nation]

People didn't realize he was joking?

Wow. Epic media fail.

Epic Willard fail, for not knowing how to deliver a joke that sucked anyway, tbh....

[clambake]

He also ran on a humble foreign policy and setting a good example instead of nation-building back in 2000.... :lol

he shoulda had a beer instead.

[cantthinkofanything]

I don't mind the Prez having a cold beer. But he needs to keep it in check. Look at this sot on the job...

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/barack-obama.jpg

[clambake]

I don't mind the Prez having a cold beer. But he needs to keep it in check. Look at this sot on the job...

http://www.hecklerspray.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/barack-obama.jpg

he killed bin laden. he drinks hot beer.

[DarrinS]

he killed bin laden. he drinks hot beer.

lol

[Wild Cobra]

All this tome this morning and ElNono still cannot admit he is wrong about the 1/3rd oxygen level.

[TeyshaBlue]

All this tome this morning and ElNono still cannot admit he is wrong about the 1/3rd oxygen level.

All this time and you still cant see how EN completely clowned you.:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

All this time and you still cant see how EN completely clowned you.:lmao
Please, tell me how.

[TeyshaBlue]

Please, tell me how.

It simply cannot be done. I don't know if it's some weird wiring problem or what. It's clear to virtually anyone who's read this thread. That you still cannot/will not see this is just bizarre.

[Wild Cobra]

It simply cannot be done. I don't know if it's some weird wiring problem or what. It's clear to virtually anyone who's read this thread. That you still cannot/will not see this is just bizarre.
No, I say you are just trying to yank my chain.

Put up or shut up.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not really. You've demonstrated that you are completely incapable of understanding EN's argument. I can't put it any clearer than he did.

[ElNono]

crofl

[ElNono]

So, Cobra, what do you think about installing roll-up windows on airplanes?

[TeyshaBlue]

So, Cobra, what do you think about installing roll-up windows on airplanes?

Maybe just those little vent windows the old cars used to have.

Actually, I really miss those.

[Wild Cobra]

Not really. You've demonstrated that you are completely incapable of understanding EN's argument. I can't put it any clearer than he did.
Please explain how I didn't understand?

ElNono claimed oxygen was 1/3rd the level at 10,000 ft. The 7.2 kPa data he was for 10,000 ft in the arteries, where there is already gas exchanges made. He is taking a the wiki answers site that claims of the 1/3rd when its methodology is bad. The person who wrote the wiki answers reply used atmospheric sea level partial O2, comparing it to inside the arterial partial CO2 at 10,000 ft.

Apples and oranges.

Does that apple taste like an orange to you too?

I agree with the medical things he says occurs, only the frequency of such things is rather uncommon at elevations around 10,000 ft. He argues the point as if it is a regular thing. If so, we wouldn't have so many high altitude cities and vacation places. Notice I have not argued against any of that part of what he says.

[ElNono]

Maybe just those little vent windows the old cars used to have.

Actually, I really miss those.

AC broke? :lol

[ElNono]

ElNono claimed oxygen was 1/3rd the level at 10,000 ft.

Never did such thing. Next time just quote me.

[TeyshaBlue]

AC broke? :lol

Hate flicking my cigar ash outta the window.:depressed

[Wild Cobra]

So, Cobra, what do you think about installing roll-up windows on airplanes?
Very dangerous idea for any craft that uses a pressurized cabin.

[Wild Cobra]

Never did such thing. Next time just quote me.
Yes you did.

[ElNono]

Hate flicking my cigar ash outta the window.:depressed

Switched to electronic 3+ years ago. Only get my nicotine fix now, doctor approved too, and didn't have to drop the puffing... it's not for everyone, but you should give it a try...

[ElNono]

Yes you did.

Quote?

[Wild Cobra]

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yeah, I've been weaning myself offa cigs with the, somewhat more than occasional, cigar. Mebbe I should try the elect. cigs. I tried one of those NJoy brands. It wasn't too bad, but was heavier than I expected. I dropped the damn thing every 30 seconds.:lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Holy shit, WC. Level and pressure are not the same fucking thing.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

[ElNono]

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

I bolded where it says "oxygen level" there. Right, it doesn't.

Next time just quote me, so you don't put words on other people's mouth.

[ElNono]

Yeah, I've been weaning myself offa cigs with the, somewhat more than occasional, cigar. Mebbe I should try the elect. cigs. I tried one of those NJoy brands. It wasn't too bad, but was heavier than I expected. I dropped the damn thing every 30 seconds.:lol

I have tried many over the years. I finally settled on a Joye eGO with dual coil cartomizer. For the juice: 24mg nicotine, USA-Mix, VG only.

[ElNono]

Make that the eGo "Mega"...

[Wild Cobra]

What does change is the pressure. This declines with altitude. At sea level the air pressure is about 101 kPa (kilopascals). Oxygen accounts for 21% of this so the oxygen pressure is 19.6 kPa. This means that there are less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air at higher altitudes.
No Shit Sherlock. 101 kPa * 0.21 is 21.2. Close enough.

At 10,000 feet the oxygen pressure drops to 7.2 kPa, which is roughly one third of the pressure at sea level.
Except the atmospheric pressure drops to about 69 kPa. 69 * 0.21 is 14.49. Not 7.2.

Your precious 7.2 is in the arterial levels. Go back to the link you supplied and look.
No it doesn't. This is the pressure inside the arteries. Go back and read your precious link. The partial O2 is about double your 7.2 kPa value in the atmosphere.

[ElNono]

So I never said:


ElNono claimed oxygen was 1/3rd the level at 10,000 ft.

Okay...

I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.

Not my problem anymore. I moved back to the topic at hand.

[Wild Cobra]

Holy shit, WC. Level and pressure are not the same fucking thing.

http://homerecording.com/bbs/images/smilies/facepalm.gif
Are you not following?

Level at 10,000 ft. is 1/3rd that of sea level...

this is clearly a comparison saying the oxygen is 1/3rd as much at 10,000 ft as it is at sea level, 0 ft.

[ElNono]

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

So I never said:



Okay...

I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.

Not my problem anymore. I moved back to the topic at hand.
LOL...

Sore loser...

[ChumpDumper]

Are you not following?

Level at 10,000 ft. is 1/3rd that of sea level...

this is clearly a comparison saying the oxygen is 1/3rd as much at 10,000 ft as it is at sea level, 0 ft.:dizzy

[Blake]

LOL...

Sore loser...

Lol straw victory

[Wild Cobra]

:dizzy
OK Chump.

Where am I wrong about the partial oxygen pressures being about 69% at 10,000 ft. as they are at sea level.

Where is ElNono right at saying partial oxygen pressure is about 1/3rd as much as they are at sea level?

[ChumpDumper]

OK Chump.

Where am I wrong about the partial oxygen pressures being about 69% at 10,000 ft. as they are at sea level.

Where is ElNono right at saying partial oxygen pressure is about 1/3rd as much as they are at sea level?Could i have the exact quote where he said that?

Thanks.

[Wild Cobra]

Could i have the exact quote where he said that?

Thanks.


Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.

I point out:


No.

At 5,000 ft it's 83% of sea level.

At 8,000 ft it's 78% of sea level.

At 10,000 ft it's 69% of sea level.

Where did you get the 1/3rd from anyway?

My numbers were from Engineering Toolbox (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-altitude-pressure-d_462.html). ElNono replies:


The percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere does not change with altitude, so it is about 21% at 10 000 feet.

What does change is the pressure. This declines with altitude. At sea level the air pressure is about 101 kPa (kilopascals). Oxygen accounts for 21% of this so the oxygen pressure is 19.6 kPa. This means that there are less oxygen molecules in the same volume of air at higher altitudes.

At 10,000 feet the oxygen pressure drops to 7.2 kPa, which is roughly one third of the pressure at sea level.

From here

The 1/3 coming from 7.2 kPA being about one-third of 19.6 kPA...

This is a false statement.

At sea level, the atmosphere is 101 kPa. 21% of that is 21.21 kPa. At some point in the thread, I pointed out that the 19.6 would be valid for about a 250 ft elevation, but that's unimportant. The two numbers are close. However, atmospheric pressure at 10,000 ft is 71 kPa by the source link that was in the link ElNono furnished. The author of the WikiAnswers misused the calculator, using the body oxygen levels section instead of the air pressure section. 21% of that is 14.91 kPa, not 7.2 kPa. The problem is, ElNono is relying on the WikiAnswers link author which is wrong. The oxygen level calculator he used that gives the 7.2 KpA number for oxygen partial pressure is for inside the human body. If you look at it, you will get the 7.2 when you use 10,000 ft, but when you note the graph at the lower left, you see the 7.2 kPa is in the "arteries." Not the atmosphere. The far left of the graph has the atmosphere unlabeled other than being between 14 and 15 kPa on the Y axis. Even if we used the "Arteries" numbers, at sea level, the partial pressure of oxygen is 13.3 kPa. The 7.2 kPa is 47%. Not 1/3rd.

Now as I redid this, and put together the graphic which I am not taking the time to correct, I realized these numbers are "arteries" gas levels. Not lung gas levels. I am going back to edit my posts that say "lung" changing them to "arteries."

ElNono simply is not willing to admit this 7.2 kPa number he is holding on to is a wrong number for the atmosphere, and his 1/3rd statement, thinking that barometric pressure doesn't matter in this.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/science/partialO20to10000.jpg

[Spur_Fanatic]

LOL, anyone actually surprised Mitt is an idiot?

[Winehole23]

Maybe just those little vent windows the old cars used to have.

Actually, I really miss those.x2

[scott]

http://scranton.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw4922-tumblr_lx8o3xlR5v1r3k1m8o1_500.png

[scott]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/395/magnets_c.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/magnets.jpg

[LnGrrrR]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/magnets.jpg


:lmao :lmao :lmao What abortion of a book is that from?

[Wild Cobra]

So I never said:



Okay...

I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.

Not my problem anymore. I moved back to the topic at hand.
Topic at hand...

You mean making fun of such a silly think that Romney said?

What you said is far more ignorant, because you claim to know after being shown the truth.

[Wild Cobra]

Figure the truth out yet ElNono?

[ElNono]

:lol "silly think"
:lol truth
:lol saying I said things I never did
:lol other posters laughing at you
:lol still not getting it
:lol can't let go

[ElNono]

I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.

[Wild Cobra]

That's not true. You said:

Not to mention that the oxygen pressure (the amount of oxygen molecules) in the same air volume at 10,000 ft is about 1/3 of sea-level.
It is about 70% as much. Not 33%, yet you deny it.

[ElNono]

I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.


I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.


I'm not going to get into this discussion again. Spent 3 pages and many hours last night and a) you still don't get it, b) it's irrelevant to the OP.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

You just cannot admit you were wrong.

OK, I'll leave you alone about it.

[ElNono]

:sleep

[boutons_deux]

"making fun of such a silly thing"

"I like to fire people"

"The tree are just the right height"

etc, etc, etc.

These aren't dubya-like mistakes. These are simply weird ideas that MUST be laughed at, and peg GeKKKo as a weird son of a bitch, and totally incompetent public speaker/campaigner.

[Wild Cobra]

"making fun of such a silly thing"

"I like to fire people"

"The tree are just the right height"

etc, etc, etc.

These aren't dubya-like mistakes. These are simply weird ideas that MUST be laughed at, and peg GeKKKo as a weird son of a bitch, and totally incompetent public speaker/campaigner.







Good 'ol ShazBot. Always taking things out of context.

Mitt Romney: "I like being able to fire people" for bad service (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57355212-503544/mitt-romney-i-like-being-able-to-fire-people-for-bad-service/)

"I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means if you don't like what they do, you can fire them,"

[boutons_deux]

and if Gecko doesn't like paying people salaries in the victim company he bought, he LOVES to fire them (good employee or not, no matter) and POCKET THEIR SALARY, then charge the victim company for MANAGEMENT FEE.

[Wild Cobra]

and if Gecko doesn't like paying people salaries in the victim company he bought, he LOVES to fire them (good employee or not, no matter) and POCKET THEIR SALARY, then charge the victim company for MANAGEMENT FEE.
Don't you get tired and dizzy spinning so much?

[Wild Cobra]

Rval_bE5HVI