Blair and Neal end game

[TD 21]

Here's what I think their plan is: Keep Blair and Neal around up until the trade deadline or close to it, then package them, along with Jackson (no matter how washed up they are, do you really think they worked out McGrady and Howard just for the hell of it?) and other assets, for a true second big/fourth star. I suspect Millsap will be their primary target.

This is the best way to maximize value out of Blair and Neal. They'd have had them for well under market value for something like 95% of their contracts and just before having to decide between losing them for nothing or giving them significant raises (which is a lose-lose proposition, given that neither is in the plans going forward), they'd not only trade them, but turn them into a significant piece. In other words, they'd utilize them how they did Hill.

Yes, both will inevitably be disgruntled if they're not in the rotation, but that's a minor inconvenience for having two proven rotation players, who know the system, to turn to in the event of a rash of injuries occurring or players ahead of them struggling mightily. And it's far better than trading them individually for 2nd round picks and/or fringe players.

[swaggerjackson]

Seems pretty reasonably. Millsap is cool. Jefferson is cooler.

[ChuckD]

Seems pretty reasonably. Millsap is cool. Jefferson is cooler.

Jefferson is worse defensively than Bonner is. He's laterally immobile and really couldn't play with Tim, who is as laterally challenged as Al J.

[ChuckD]

I'd say Neal and Blair need to have VERY good camps, or they face the risk of being cut outright. Blair is unguaranteed until the season starts, and Neal is fully unguaranteed.

As for trade options, no one wanted Blair this summer. Not sure that's changed. I also strongly dislike the idea of trading our most clutch playoff performer right before the playoffs. The Spurs likely want his salary to roll off or be reduced next summer, not exchanged for another big contract.

[ElNono]

Millsap is a "true second big/fourth star"?

[benefactor]

Millsap is a "true second big/fourth star"?
:lol big
:lol 6'6 1/4

[analyzed]

Seems pretty reasonably. Millsap is cool. Jefferson is cooler.

[analyzed]

I was thinking more of Josh Smith of Atlanta, Smith is an unreistected free agent they might want to get something in return than loosing him for nothing, By trading him for the Spurs trio of Blair, Neal and Jackson. they not only get playin bodies in return but get their expiring contracts as well (cap space)

[ChuckD]

I was thinking more of Josh Smith of Atlanta, Smith is an unreistected free agent they might want to get something in return than loosing him for nothing, By trading him for the Spurs trio of Blair, Neal and Jackson. they not only get playin bodies in return but get their expiring contracts as well (cap space)

ATL will be able to do MUCH better than "cap space" if they decide they want to trade Josh.

[swaggerjackson]

True. Unless this teams dominates through the regular season and show no real weakness against OKC, LA, Miami, etc I think we will head into the playoffs with atleast one addition to our rotation (ie we will add atleast one impact player through a trade)

[TD 21]

ChuckD . . .

- There's no way they're cutting two inexpensive, rotation caliber players, no matter how bad they are in camp.

- It's not that "no on wanted Blair", it's that they didn't deem a 2nd round pick acceptable value for him. As a piece of a package, he should have more value.

- By dumping Jackson, Millsap is just replacing him as the fourth big contract. They'll likely have substantial cap space next summer anyway and Millsap is about the best realistic candidate in free agency.


Millsap is a "true second big/fourth star"?

I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about the caliber of player he is. On a really good team, he's a second big and on this team, he'd be their fourth star.

I'm not surprised that an idiot like benefactor failed to comprehend this, but you? I thought you were better than that. :lol


For a variety of reasons, I don't see it happening with Smith. The team I think is most likely to prevent the Spurs from acquiring Millsap is the Nuggets, who could use a PF and blow away anything the Spurs would realistically offer.

[ChuckD]

True. Unless this teams dominates through the regular season and show no real weakness against OKC, LA, Miami, etc I think we will head into the playoffs with atleast one addition to our rotation (ie we will add atleast one impact player through a trade)

Impact players are rarely available via trade. You're lucky if you can get a player that can do two things well.

[ChuckD]

ChuckD . . .

- There's no way they're cutting two inexpensive, rotation caliber players, no matter how bad they are in camp.

- It's not that "no on wanted Blair", it's that they didn't deem a 2nd round pick acceptable value for him. As a piece of a package, he should have more value.

- By dumping Jackson, Millsap is just replacing him as the fourth big contract. They'll likely have substantial cap space next summer anyway and Millsap is about the best realistic candidate in free agency.



I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about the caliber of player he is. On a really good team, he's a second big and on this team, he'd be their fourth star.

I'm not surprised that an idiot like benefactor failed to comprehend this, but you? I thought you were better than that. :lol


For a variety of reasons, I don't see it happening with Smith. The team I think is most likely to prevent the Spurs from acquiring Millsap is the Nuggets, who could use a PF and blow away anything the Spurs would realistically offer.

I'm not talking about Neal's salary being reduced. That's impossible, since he's making league minimum. I'm talking about Jack back on a reduced deal.

They could easily cut them both, because our rotation is almost TOO deep. We likely won't run 9-10 players deep this year, since there will not be the compressed schedule.
Bigs:
Tim
Tiago
Diaw
Wings:
Kawhi
Jack
Manu
Green
Guards:
Tony
Nando
Mills

That's ten players already, not including Bonner, who I hope falls out of the rotation, or Blair and Neal. Players who used to be in the rotation and are no longer are UNHAPPY players, and who needs that? Players like Brown and Wilkerson would be ELATED to ride the pine on a contender. Blair and Neal could easily just be cut.

[TD 21]

I'm not talking about Neal's salary being reduced. That's impossible, since he's making league minimum. I'm talking about Jack back on a reduced deal.

They could easily cut them both, because our rotation is almost TOO deep. We likely won't run 9-10 players deep this year, since there will not be the compressed schedule.
Bigs:
Tim
Tiago
Diaw
Wings:
Kawhi
Jack
Manu
Green
Guards:
Tony
Nando
Mills

That's ten players already, not including Bonner, who I hope falls out of the rotation, or Blair and Neal. Players who used to be in the rotation and are no longer are UNHAPPY players, and who needs that? Players like Brown and Wilkerson would be ELATED to ride the pine on a contender. Blair and Neal could easily just be cut.

Yeah, I know. After posting I realized you were talking about Jackson, which is why I edited that part out.

You don't give away assets for nothing just because they may not be in the rotation and will be disgruntled. Like I said, it's a minor inconvenience that they'll have to deal with in the interim. What if they have two-three of their top ten injured at once? Or What if two of their top ten are struggling mightily? For all their weaknesses, Blair and Neal are excellent 11th and 12th men.

The way this roster is constructed and given how much they ration minutes, there's no reason to expect anything less than a ten man rotation again. It's difficult enough to pare down to ten, let alone nine.

[elemento]

I don't think Millsap is really what we're looking for. He is really undersized and struggles against size. Millsap is basically what Blair could have been if he had work-ethic his whole career.

Millsap was embarrassed by Diaw in the playoffs and Boris was still out of shape. Call me a homer, but I prefer to keep S-Jax. Millsap won't change shit when SA plays against LA or OKC.

And I don' think SA will waive Neal or Blair. That doesn't make any sense considering their salary and production. We still don't know if Nando will be able to contribute and Cory will probably spend another season in Austin. SA has a thin front-court so cutting a cheap BIG like Blair makes little sense.

Anyway ..I'd like to see SA adding another quality BIG, but deep inside i don't think that's gonna happen.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think Millsap is really what we're looking for. He is really undersized and struggles against size. Millsap is basically what Blair could have been if he had work-ethic his whole career.

Millsap was embarrassed by Diaw in the playoffs and Boris was still out of shape. Call me a homer, but I prefer to keep S-Jax. Millsap won't change shit when SA plays against LA or OKC.

And I don' think SA will waive Neal or Blair. That doesn't make any sense considering their salary and production. We still don't know if Nando will be able to contribute and Cory will probably spend another season in Austin. SA has a thin front-court so cutting a cheap BIG like Blair makes little sense.

Anyway ..I'd like to see SA adding another quality BIG, but deep inside i don't think that's gonna happen.

Thank you. Millsap IS a very good player, but he's undersized and really does nothing to address their lack of size, toughness and physicality along the frontline. Besides that, his contract is a killer. It would be a ridiculous acquisition, but because Pop seems so committed toward fielding an undersized frontline, it's probably a likely scenario - even though it shouldn't be. I sincerely hope that's not who they are targeting.

[racm]

Tbh we'd be better off spotting Kawhi/Jax/DBrown minutes at the 4 than trading for Millsap.

[ElNono]

I'm not talking about size, I'm talking about the caliber of player he is. On a really good team, he's a second big and on this team, he'd be their fourth star.

I'm not surprised that an idiot like benefactor failed to comprehend this, but you? I thought you were better than that. :lol

I guess we have different opinions on Millsap's game, that's why I was asking. I see him as tougher Malik Rose. Kinda like a developed Blair.

Millsap probably can't be had for less than $10 million anyways, and while I know our big situation is kinda dire, I rather get size, tbh.

[ChuckD]

Tbh we'd be better off spotting Kawhi/Jax/DBrown minutes at the 4 than trading for Millsap.

This is the way the league is trending. Chris Bosh is a center. LeBron is a PF.

It almost reminds me of what Bobby Bowden did at FSU. He recruited DBs, put them into the weight room for a year and turned them into LBs. He recruited LBs and did the same thing to make them DEs. He recruited DEs and made them DTs. His philosophy was to put more skill and speed into a position than it traditionally called for. The rules in the NBA now lend themselves to the same sort of thing.

[spurraider21]

keep jax. a 10 million dollar expiring contract, paired with Manu's 14 million expiring will give us the ability to resign those guys for cheap and make a play for a big name in free agency

[DMC]

Gary Neal will be in the NBA this season, regardless whether the Spurs pick him up or not. He's made too big of an impact to not get the attention of the league.

[therealtruth]

I'm not sure Neal is better than a guy like D. Cook who is third string on the Thunder. Yeah he can shoot but his defense is atrocious.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think it's obvious to anyone that the writing is on the wall for Blair and Neal to be traded at some point this season. Will Jackson be included? Maybe, that portion of your scenario is debatable.

I would much rather the Spurs target a Dalembert (expiring) by offering Bonner's expiring (next year majority of his contract is un-guaranteed), Blair and Neal. With this route, they can have as much financial flexibility next summer, keep Jackson for another playoff run ( gives the Spurs the versatility to defend the Thunder's and Heat better), and it gives the Spurs better personnel to match-up against the Lakers. It's not like Spurs will have a lot of minutes to give at the 4/5 spot anyway if Diaw and Splitter continue there efficient play (especially in the playoffs). They just need a valuable 4th big that can produce on the defensive end/boards with the 15-20 minutes they'll see in the regular season (kind of like a valuable 03' Kevin Willis role who was vital in matching up against Shaq).

With a proposal as such, Spurs are able to keep one of the best playoff performers on the team (Jackson) and replace Bonner/Blair's 4th big spot with a defensive presence that's desperately needed.

Yeah it's debatable how Dalembert would fit into the rotation because he doesn't spread the floor, but with creativity, there's way's to make it work (not sure if Pop can figure it out though, tbh).

[benefactor]

I guess we have different opinions on Millsap's game, that's why I was asking. I see him as tougher Malik Rose. Kinda like a developed Blair.

Millsap probably can't be had for less than $10 million anyways, and while I know our big situation is kinda dire, I rather get size, tbh.
:tu

[spurraider21]

Blair eats minutes, and is productive a long as the other team doesn't have twin tower scorers like the Lakers. He's cheap too.

Neal is better fit as a reserve 2 than a 1, and green and Manu sort of have a monopoly on that position. Still he is cheap and is injury insurance at a couple of positions. He's a knockdown shooter, a clutch shooter, and can score off the dribble. Again, he's cheap. Unless de colo really shows something, Neal is valuable insurance

[TD 21]

I guess we have different opinions on Millsap's game, that's why I was asking. I see him as tougher Malik Rose. Kinda like a developed Blair.

Millsap probably can't be had for less than $10 million anyways, and while I know our big situation is kinda dire, I rather get size, tbh.

I don't disagree with the general sentiment. I have the same concerns as others when it comes to Millsap, which is why this was about what I think they'll do, not necessarily what I'd do. I'd be on board if, as I said, he could be had for less than he should be worth. Meaning some combination of Jackson, Bonner, Blair, Neal, Joseph, draft picks and overseas rights. Because even though he wouldn't solve their issues, he'd still be an upgrade in talent. And I'm not sure how it's even debatable that he's not star caliber or a clear cut second big.

I agree that it would probably take $10M annually to re-sign him, but as I said, he's probably the best realistic option they'll have in free agency anyway, so that part of it wouldn't concern me.

[TD 21]

I suspect Millsap will be their primary target.

There's been two developments in the past ten days that have swayed me into thinking that Smith will be their primary target.

1) Blair appears to be on the verge of taking at least a relatively significant step forward and if he does, then it makes no sense to surrender depth of assets for Millsap or pay him roughly $10M annually when they could retain their depth and pay Blair $6-7M less.

2) Splitter's paper cuts are beginning to mount. At this point, they've got to be thinking long and hard about whether this is someone they want to pay at least $6M annually to on a long term contract going forward.

I'm not saying the Spurs can offer the best value for Smith, but the pieces do fit: Smith, Pachulia and Stevenson for Jackson, Splitter, Bonner, Blair, Joseph, draft picks and possibly overseas rights.

The fact that they'd have to make him their highest paid player to retain him, despite the fact that he'd be their 3rd-5th offensive option, is irrelevant. They'll have the money to spend, he's the exact type of big they need and there's no chance they'll be able to do better.

[TimmehC]

I think Danny Ferry would rather repair his legacy than do us a solid, but what do I know.

[Andthentherewas21]

There's been two developments in the past ten days that have swayed me into thinking that Smith will be their primary target.

1) Blair appears to be on the verge of taking at least a relatively significant step forward and if he does, then it makes no sense to surrender depth of assets for Millsap or pay him roughly $10M annually when they could retain their depth and pay Blair $6-7M less.

2) Splitter's paper cuts are beginning to mount. At this point, they've got to be thinking long and hard about whether this is someone they want to pay at least $6M annually to on a long term contract going forward.

I'm not saying the Spurs can offer the best value for Smith, but the pieces do fit: Smith, Pachulia and Stevenson for Jackson, Splitter, Bonner, Blair, Joseph, draft picks and possibly overseas rights.

I think its a possibility if Smith comes right out and says he won't resign in Atlanta. If that happens then acquiring Splitter allows them to move Horford to PF, Jackson gives them an actual SF, and the others are basically insurance with Blair being the X-factor. However, it would definitely take some future picks and that is where the Spurs and Hawks would probably end up furthest apart.

[TD 21]

I think its a possibility if Smith comes right out and says he won't resign in Atlanta. If that happens then acquiring Splitter allows them to move Horford to PF, Jackson gives them an actual SF, and the others are basically insurance with Blair being the X-factor. However, it would definitely take some future picks and that is where the Spurs and Hawks would probably end up furthest apart.

Ferry might not want to take the risk that he doesn't re-sign or he just might want to turn him into three or four cheaper assets, as opposed to locking up roughly $14M annually, when they've already got an All-Star caliber player to play his position.

The Nuggets could trump this by offering Chandler, Mozgov, Randolph, etc., but because of his familiarity with the Spurs players, he might feel more comfortable taking their package or he might just flat out do them a solid and/or take a lesser package. It's not like those things don't happen.

If the Spurs could pull this off, they'd have a more balanced, physical team, with a clearly defined top eight . . .

Smith/Diaw/Powell
Leonard/Stevenson
Duncan/Pachulia
Green/Ginobili/De Colo
Parker/Neal/Mills

They could always sign an SF and/or C off the scrap heap (there's always post deadline buyouts) to fill out the roster.

[FkLA]

I'm not sure Neal is better than a guy like D. Cook who is third string on the Thunder. Yeah he can shoot but his defense is atrocious.

Gary Neal has shown the ability to get his own shot as well, hes not just a shooter.

[spurraider21]

There is absolutely no point in trading the two. With their contracts, we aren't going to get anything good in return. Neal is a clutch knockdown shooter and Blair is an assert to keep Tim fresh and would be effective against any west team except Memphis or the lakers. Losing them to free agency isn't exactly a fear considering their already limited roles. We're not likely to get a high draft pick for expiring contracts as small as theirs

[ChuckD]

There is absolutely no point in trading the two. With their contracts, we aren't going to get anything good in return. Neal is a clutch knockdown shooter and Blair is an assert to keep Tim fresh and would be effective against any west team except Memphis or the lakers. Losing them to free agency isn't exactly a fear considering their already limited roles. We're not likely to get a high draft pick for expiring contracts as small as theirs
The point is that neither really panned out. Both show decent offense, with holes, and little to no defense. If you trade them, you can keep ALL of Curry, Powell, and Brown, and start the next developmental player cycle.

[Ice009]

I wouldn't trade Jackson for Millsap at all, at any point, any day of the week. He's just a little too short for my liking and too expensive for the Spurs as he isn't really a great big man. I'd probably prefer someone like Dalembert who could help us more on the defensive end of the court.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Neal hasn't panned out? WTF did you expect from a 28 year old undrafted rookie? Being an all star or something?
And Balir is a 2nd round pick who is an NBA caliber player. That's better than most.

All 3 of Curry, Powell and Brown have a lot more to prove to be taken before either of Blair or Neal. Which they won't be. Maybe Curry on a Theo Ratliff 2.0 kinda deal.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Well, Mcgrady decided he wants to continue his basketball career in China, so we dodged that bullet.

[TDMVPDPOY]

gary neal and blair the 2 clowns, whatever offense they put up is the same shit they give up on the other end....

[ChuckD]

Neal hasn't panned out? WTF did you expect from a 28 year old undrafted rookie? Being an all star or something?
And Balir is a 2nd round pick who is an NBA caliber player. That's better than most.

All 3 of Curry, Powell and Brown have a lot more to prove to be taken before either of Blair or Neal. Which they won't be. Maybe Curry on a Theo Ratliff 2.0 kinda deal.

Neal literally cannot dribble the ball, or even cover the Derek Fishers of the league. If Pop is serious about ramping up the defense, Neal will be somewhere else.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Neal literally cannot dribble the ball, or even cover the Derek Fishers of the league. If Pop is serious about ramping up the defense, Neal will be somewhere else.

Totally disagree about the dribbling and yea Neal is a bad defender, but if he could play defense on top of shooting 40+ on 3s he wouldn't have costed under a mil per year. Look at how much other 3 point specialists make - Korver, Morrow, etc. Based on production per dollar, Neal has delivered and surpassed any expectations from 2 years ago when he signed.

[therealtruth]

Derek Fisher is still available. He might be worth taking a look at. Neal can't even defend him and he's one of the slowest point guards.

[Drom John]

Stop the fantasy trades for Smith.
Both Smith and the Hawks have announced that they won't extend Smith's contract this year because they can only extend for three years. But as a free-agent Smith can sign for five years.
Smith is more a Hawk than Duncan is a Spur.

The Spurs have a better chance gettting Dwight Howard than Smith.

The Spurs aren't getting Dwight Howard.

Neal to Orlando?
Blair to Charlotte?
Maybe. But I don't see much more than roster space and a high second round draft pick a piece.

I'd rather keep Blair and Neal.

[ChuckD]

Totally disagree about the dribbling and yea Neal is a bad defender, but if he could play defense on top of shooting 40+ on 3s he wouldn't have costed under a mil per year. Look at how much other 3 point specialists make - Korver, Morrow, etc. Based on production per dollar, Neal has delivered and surpassed any expectations from 2 years ago when he signed.

He literally stares at his hand and the ball while dribbling, and cannot bring the ball up under pressure. He starts backing his man down at the 3/4 court mark, and by the time he gets barely gets it across the timeline at the 17 or 18 second mark and is ready to run a play, there are like 10 seconds left. I've seen him run a high pick and roll, and LOSE THE BALL WITH NO DEFENDER ON HIM, and have to run back and get it. He sucks as a primary ball handler and initiator, the role expected of the backup PG. He's undersized at the 2 guard, his best position. He defends no one.

[therealtruth]

He literally stares at his hand and the ball while dribbling, and cannot bring the ball up under pressure. He starts backing his man down at the 3/4 court mark, and by the time he gets barely gets it across the timeline at the 17 or 18 second mark and is ready to run a play, there are like 10 seconds left. I've seen him run a high pick and roll, and LOSE THE BALL WITH NO DEFENDER ON HIM, and have to run back and get it. He sucks as a primary ball handler and initiator, the role expected of the backup PG. He's undersized at the 2 guard, his best position. He defends no one.

You can improve alot of those skills just by doing lots of drills. Another part of it is confidence. It's hard to dribble the ball when you don't have confidence in your ballhandling. Defenders can also pickup on the fact that your not confident. They'll attack your dribble more aggressively. When's the last time you saw someone pick up Chris Paul full court to try and get a steal? But they do that Neal all the time.

[superbigtime]

He literally stares at his hand and the ball while dribbling, and cannot bring the ball up under pressure. He starts backing his man down at the 3/4 court mark, and by the time he gets barely gets it across the timeline at the 17 or 18 second mark and is ready to run a play, there are like 10 seconds left. I've seen him run a high pick and roll, and LOSE THE BALL WITH NO DEFENDER ON HIM, and have to run back and get it. He sucks as a primary ball handler and initiator, the role expected of the backup PG. He's undersized at the 2 guard, his best position. He defends no one.


You know why he struggles like that? Because he's not a PG. Maybe the coach will figure that out one day. G neal is $$$ at what he's good at, and he sucks at what he's bad at. He's shouldn't be a primary ball handler because, you're right, he can be clumsy with the ball. We've seen it over and over. When he spots up and shoots, he's deadly. And he's not terrible at getting to the bucket. But he's a liability in ball handling and defense. Even Neal knows it. He mopes at his mistakes and then it gets him in an even worse offensive rhythm. Can't our coaches figure this shit out and play Gary to his and the team's advantage? It's frickin frustrating.

[ChuckD]

You know why he struggles like that? Because he's not a PG. Maybe the coach will figure that out one day. G neal is $$$ at what he's good at, and he sucks at what he's bad at. He's shouldn't be a primary ball handler because, you're right, he can be clumsy with the ball. We've seen it over and over. When he spots up and shoots, he's deadly. And he's not terrible at getting to the bucket. But he's a liability in ball handling and defense. Even Neal knows it. He mopes at his mistakes and then it gets him in an even worse offensive rhythm. Can't our coaches figure this shit out and play Gary to his and the team's advantage? It's frickin frustrating.

Unfortunately for Gary, with Kawhi, Manu, jack, and green, there just aren't wing minutes available. It's PG or nothing. That's why I think it's best that they move him. There are just too many guards and wings on this team. We haven't even discussed th glut at pg with Tony, Mills, CoJo, and now DeColo.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Unfortunately for Gary, with Kawhi, Manu, jack, and green, there just aren't wing minutes available. It's PG or nothing. That's why I think it's best that they move him. There are just too many guards and wings on this team. We haven't even discussed th glut at pg with Tony, Mills, CoJo, and now DeColo.

he probably play when pop decides to go small, pushin KL and JAX to play the 4, then neal could expect some time at the 321
unless he decides to accept the brent barry role, come in hit a few 3s when his needed, like in his first season

[Leetonidas]

I think we should keep Neal. I just came back in 2K13 by giving Neal the ball and chucking 3s as soon as I could get open and he was hitting nothing but the bottom :lol

[ace3g]

I think we should keep Neal. I just came back in 2K13 by giving Neal the ball and chucking 3s as soon as I could get open and he was hitting nothing but the bottom :lol

speaking of video game stats

256894796315127808

[superbigtime]

I just really like the dude. I'd be really bummed to see G Neal go. He can win this team games if he's played the right way. This team's got too many wings and not enough bigs. SOS.