How would you turn the economy around?

[Wild Cobra]

I think the primary thing we need to do, is to return manufacturing jobs to our nation. If I were in power to do so, I would change our way of taxation. A national sales tax, no income tax, and tariffs.

[boutons_deux]

"return manufacturing jobs to our nation"

A Glimpse of the Oligarchy’s View of the Future for US Workers (http://firedoglake.com/2012/09/30/a-glimpse-of-the-oligarchys-view-of-the-future-for-us-workers/)
That’s the future: jobs at about $13-18 an hour are competitive with Chinese labor, considering other costs, so that’s what we get. The oligarchy is certain state and federal government will enforce that policy, just like the Greek and Spanish police, and George Washington’s militia.

http://firedoglake.com/2012/09/30/a-glimpse-of-the-oligarchys-view-of-the-future-for-us-workers/

States have cut $10Bs from education, which is a great investment in the future of the next generations.

[Wild Cobra]

I see ShazBot only has complaints. No solutions.

Anyone else?

[boutons_deux]

Security Force Arrests Supporters of Striking Walmart Warehouse Workers (http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/10/01/private-security-force-arrests-supporters-of-striking-walmart-warehouse-workers/)

Community, faith and labor organizations mobilized this afternoon for a rally and civil disobedience action in support of thirty-eight workers on strike at a Walmart warehouse in Elwood, Illinois. They marched down to this distribution center, and, at least thirteen clergy and community leaders sat down and blocked an entrance to the center to prevent goods from arriving or leaving the warehouse. After the leaders sat down in the road, a security force believed to be the Illinois Law Enforcement Alarm System Mobile Field Force (https://www.ileas.org/main/mobile-field-force), clad in riot gear, marched out and surrounded the leaders.

The security force arrested all of the people committing civil disobedience. They had an officer with a camera taking video of the action. They also drove a Humvee with an Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) out into the street and parked fifty to one hundred feet away from where people were being arrested. The warehouse was, according to Warehouse Workers for Justice (http://www.warehouseworker.org/) (WWJ), completely shut down.

Live streamer “MoccupyChi” was on hand and captured the entire action (http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/25846187), including the paramilitary force that greeted those engaged in nonviolent action.

Walmart had a private security force on hand to arrest clergy and community leaders there to support workers because the distribution center is located in a Foreign Trade Zone (FTZ). The distribution center, as WWJ’s website details, is also “one of the most important transportation and distribution hubs in the world.”

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/10/01/private-security-force-arrests-supporters-of-striking-walmart-warehouse-workers/

And right-wingers here, including WC, ridicule and sneer at OWS demonstrators protesting the UCA/VWRC/1% control of the country.

[boutons_deux]

WC was the one saying American workers salaries were too high to compete with the Chinese and Indians. Well, now they aren't too high, 2/3 of country lives from paycheck-to-paycheck, and he wants to fix it.

[Wild Cobra]

How does blocking the flow of goods help the economy?

They were rightfully arrested.

Do you have any solutions, or do you just want to rant?

Are you going to be part of the problem, or part of the solution?

[Wild Cobra]

WC was the one saying American workers salaries were too high to compete with the Chinese and Indians. Well, now they aren't too high, 2/3 of country lives from paycheck-to-paycheck, and he wants to fix it.
Again, like I said in the other thread, how can you make a good response when you argue an incorrect point that someone makes.

I never said what you are saying I said. You have to twist my words like a master politician that you hate so much to do so.

[boutons_deux]

John Deere and Holt Caterpillar are two the worst empolyee-bashers in the country. That's American mfg for you. How would YOU fix that?

There ain't no fix. The War on Employees (salaries, benefits) is long over, and the Employers/Investors won.

If somebody sits down in the street to draw attention, you call in the for-profit riot police.

[Wild Cobra]

ShazBot...

You are like a child running down the street and crying because your diaper is filled with shit.

Love to hear any solution you may have. Otherwise, can't you complain else where?

What is your solution to the problem at hand?

[LnGrrrR]

Well, I know you'd piss off New Hampshirites... they don't have sales tax, and it's a major selling point to get people from Massachusetts to buy goods there. As well, I can't even imagine what the sales tax/tariffs would have to be to make up for the revenue brought in from income taxes. Finally, I like the idea of tariffs, but it seems every economist doesn't. *shrug*

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I know you'd piss off New Hampshirites... they don't have sales tax, and it's a major selling point to get people from Massachusetts to buy goods there. As well, I can't even imagine what the sales tax/tariffs would have to be to make up for the revenue brought in from income taxes. Finally, I like the idea of tariffs, but it seems every economist doesn't. *shrug*
A national sales tax would be equal everywhere.

[SA210]

Go after the corrupt politicians, the Federal Reserve and bankster scum and corrupt media, prosecute Obama and Bush administrations for war crimes and send a message that war will no longer be tolerated for profit and without a declaration of war. The money saved from overextending ourselves for unnecessary illegal wars would be a huge part of a solution. I'd rather spend money trying corrupt war politicians than money going to murder of innocents abroad as well as unnecessary deaths of US troops.

[LnGrrrR]

A national sales tax would be equal everywhere.

Yes, which is why New Hampshire would be mad about that, because they'd lose a "selling point" for people to come to NH and buy stuff, instead of buying it in taxed states. Just a minor point.

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, which is why New Hampshire would be mad about that, because they'd lose a "selling point" for people to come to NH and buy stuff, instead of buying it in taxed states. Just a minor point.
I understand your point. Looks like I need to elaborate mine. Oregon also has no sales tax. Oregon and New Hampshire will still retain their no state sales tax if they like. I'm speaking of a national sales tax instead of federal income tax. I'm not speaking of states changing the way they do their business. that would be their option.

[Drachen]

not really, they would just say "Hey people, aren't you tired of paying 13% state and federal tax on ALLL of your purchases? Come buys stuff here and only get taxed at the 5% federal rate!"

[boutons_deux]

In a tiny move, Chinese Lenovo to build PCs in USA. 100 workers! :lol

[Wild Cobra]

In a tiny move, Chinese Lenovo to build PCs in USA. 100 workers! :lol
IBM owns 18%. Maybe 18% of the work will be done here?

[TeyshaBlue]

I think the primary thing we need to do, is to return manufacturing jobs to our nation. If I were in power to do so, I would change our way of taxation. A national sales tax, no income tax, and tariffs.

Place an asinine statement tax on you and boutons.

We'd be running a budget surplus in a month.

[TeyshaBlue]

WC was the one saying American workers salaries were too high to compete with the Chinese and Indians. Well, now they aren't too high, 2/3 of country lives from paycheck-to-paycheck, and he wants to fix it.

In the context of the US job market, retail workers salaries <> manufacturing salaries. Holy fuck.

[ElNono]

Not a fan of tariffs, tbh... it's automatic inflation on goods and liquidation of salaries. Plus it doesn't improve our competitive level, nor it deals with services or outsourcing.

There's no magic bullet, but I'd like to see something along the lines of capping the amount of US bonds and treasuries countries can buy at a percentage of actual investments in the US. While that would force the US to trim the deficit spending (not that bad of an idea), it would also cause countries like China to either invest heavily in the US or go dump their massive earnings from the trade imbalance on riskier markets (or they can keep the money themselves, putting much more pressure on their currency).

I figured all 3 scenarios benefit the US in the long run:

- If they decide to invest in the US, that's a nice China-financed stimulus coming in to help prop up the economy
- If they decide to invest on riskier markets (ie: Europe), then it would prop up the riskier markets and improve the overall health of the worldwide economy.
- If they sit on the money, it will create pressure on their currency and eventually pop, making it expensive enough to create stuff on their country and making us competitive again.

Just my 2c

[boutons_deux]

Let the USPS become a nation-wide, non-profit banking utility, retail, commercial, mortgages, ATM cards, credit cards with less than 10% APR. A great way for taxpayers to fuck the vampire-squid TBTF banks.

Force the lenders who sold toxic mortgages to F&F to eat every one one of them. cram them all down their throats.

Promote a residential/commercial program for solar and wind installation energy to be purchased by utilities, aka, feed-in tariffs. Extend the wind and solar and insulation tax credits for 10 years. Several 100K, if not way more, jobs right there. And have a big tax credit for solar/wind equipment that is USA-sourced.

Dump $2T+ into the economy as stimulus, while cancelling all deductions and tax breaks for the 1%, the financial sector, the carbon energy sector.

[baseline bum]

- German-style healthcare where insurance is not for profit and coverage is universal. Bringing healthcare costs down would be an enormous shot in the arm to give the middle and lower classes more disposable income that would be pretty likely to be spent.
- An outright ban on selling sodas, chips, slushes, and deep fried shit in PreK-12 schools to hopefully get kids into healthier diets and lower our healthcare costs long-term. As it is now the schools are the one place a kid knows he can go eat crap for a meal a day without mom's blessing.
- An educational system similar to the gymnasium system in Germany where students can either do college prep work or learn a trade instead of trying to cram everyone into the college-bound track. That way almost everyone would get something out of his schooling and the whole graduating class wouldn't feel like they have to enroll in a couple of semesters of college before doing anything.
- Subsidies for solar panel development so that it can become an efficient way to power homes and small businesses. I can't understand throwing away that 1000-1400 watts per square meter you get in the daytime on your roof.
- Eliminate our stupid laws forcing ethanol into gasoline to bring down food prices. Ethanol sucks and corn is in everything in this country.
- Continued investment in defense and the space program since it tends to lead to important breakthroughs like the computer, the interstate highway system, satellite communication, and the internet. The part of the defense budget to slash is the money allocating to jerking off in guerrilla wars in the Middle East, Asia, Central and South America, etc. like we have been doing for the last 60+ years.

Normally I'd be for aggressive emissions standards for vehicles, but I kind of like the idea of bleeding Saudi Arabia's oil reserves dry before we start moving towards natural gas in our cars in a decade or so. Definitely don't drill in Alaska though, in case we eventually need that oil for war with China.

[boutons_deux]

Raise the federal tax on gasoline over 5 years to about $7. Use the revenue to accelerate battery research.

Classify coal waste as toxic and force the coal companies to clean it all up.

A heavy tax all coal, NG, oil exports when those products come out of US soil.

( btw, Russia sells NG to Europe at $10/unit, while it costs $3/unit in USA. Expect USA price to go back to $10/unit when US LNG terminals start exporting US NG to the world market. Why would NG producers sell the US market cheaper than to the export market? )

[Nbadan]

- German-style healthcare where insurance is not for profit and coverage is universal. Bringing healthcare costs down would be an enormous shot in the arm to give the middle and lower classes more disposable income that would be pretty likely to be spent.
- An outright ban on selling sodas, chips, slushes, and deep fried shit in PreK-12 schools to hopefully get kids into healthier diets and lower our healthcare costs long-term. As it is now the schools are the one place a kid knows he can go eat crap for a meal a day without mom's blessing.
- An educational system similar to the gymnasium system in Germany where students can either do college prep work or learn a trade instead of trying to cram everyone into the college-bound track. That way almost everyone would get something out of his schooling and the whole graduating class wouldn't feel like they have to enroll in a couple of semesters of college before doing anything.
- Subsidies for solar panel development so that it can become an efficient way to power homes and small businesses. I can't understand throwing away that 1000-1400 watts per square meter you get in the daytime on your roof.
- Eliminate our stupid laws forcing ethanol into gasoline to bring down food prices. Ethanol sucks and corn is in everything in this country.
- Continued investment in defense and the space program since it tends to lead to important breakthroughs like the computer, the interstate highway system, satellite communication, and the internet. The part of the defense budget to slash is the money allocating to jerking off in guerrilla wars in the Middle East, Asia, Central and South America, etc. like we have been doing for the last 60+ years.

Normally I'd be for aggressive emissions standards for vehicles, but I kind of like the idea of bleeding Saudi Arabia's oil reserves dry before we start moving towards natural gas in our cars in a decade or so. Definitely don't drill in Alaska though, in case we eventually need that oil for war with China.

That's not to bad, but I would also tax trades on certain commodities and derivatives to market-regulate over speculation

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Alternative fuels be it fusion, solar, or wind are going to be the next economic boom. We need to be on the forefront. It's not just an efficiency issue, its going to be a HUGE world market.

[scott]

Message board posts.

[baseline bum]

Alternative fuels be it fusion, solar, or wind are going to be the next economic boom. We need to be on the forefront. It's not just an efficiency issue, its going to be a HUGE world market.

Getting solar effective and cheap is going to be extremely important for combating global warming, since there isn't a lot else we can do to stop it with China and India rapidly industrialising.

[mavs>spurs]

i'd put a tax on stuff coming in from china. start putting money into drilling that huge oil deposit up north (largest in the world) and funding natural gas. make the country energy independent and even export it. turn the federal reserve public and audit that sucker...and probably give bernanke the boot. bring home every troop and shut down every foreign base. fix the borders, use our intelligence resources instead on getting questionable characters out of the US and prevent them from coming back in while getting rid of the TSA and other useless government agencies. I'd downsize govt by about 1/3.

[Winehole23]

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/190/1/d/unicorns_puke_rainbows_by_chronicle_vindictive-d56nvl0.gif

[ElNono]

make the country energy independent and even export it.

IIRC, the US has been a net refined oil product exporter for the last two years.

[mavs>spurs]

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

[ElNono]

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

got it :tu

[Jacob1983]

I would hire and pay the world's best economists and mathematicians to figure out what method/plan is the one that is going to save the most money and create the most revenue. Whatever it is, that's the way it would be. No ifs, ands, or buts. I would also try to get Congress to support something like having a fair tax and maybe some consumption taxes. I would say that cutting back on building America's empire would be the smartest thing to do. No more nation building and going overseas to force people to have democracy and be "Americans". That money would be better used helping America and Americans. I also think that America needs to try to slowly and gradually reduce the number of people that depend on government handouts like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I mean if you need assistance and are unable to help yourself, then great but if you're free loading, that shit would end. Cutting back on nation building, wars, and government handouts would help the economy a lot. If only politicians would support that, then things might start to look better.

[Wild Cobra]

Raise the federal tax on gasoline over 5 years to about $7. Use the revenue to accelerate battery research.

Not that much.

The current $0.184 is way too low. At a minimum, it needs to be adjusted for inflation. Still, I wouldn't want to see a gas tax more than maybe $1/gal, and that may be too high.


Classify coal waste as toxic and force the coal companies to clean it all up.

I think there are already adequate regulations in place.


A heavy tax all coal, NG, oil exports when those products come out of US soil.

Bad idea. You would not only increase imports, but hurt local jobs.


( btw, Russia sells NG to Europe at $10/unit, while it costs $3/unit in USA. Expect USA price to go back to $10/unit when US LNG terminals start exporting US NG to the world market. Why would NG producers sell the US market cheaper than to the export market? )

I'm OK with fair supply and demand pricing. However, the price of shipping it will still kep it profitable for lower pricing here than the $10/unit.

[Wild Cobra]

Alternative fuels be it fusion, solar, or wind are going to be the next economic boom. We need to be on the forefront. It's not just an efficiency issue, its going to be a HUGE world market.


Getting solar effective and cheap is going to be extremely important for combating global warming, since there isn't a lot else we can do to stop it with China and India rapidly industrialising.
I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

[Wild Cobra]

IIRC, the US has been a net refined oil product exporter for the last two years.
True, but we import most the oil we are refining.

[Wild Cobra]

I would hire and pay the world's best economists and mathematicians to figure out what method/plan is the one that is going to save the most money and create the most revenue. Whatever it is, that's the way it would be. No ifs, ands, or buts.

At least you have a plan. Most the people are complaining about something instead of being constructive.


I would also try to get Congress to support something like having a fair tax and maybe some consumption taxes.

The Fair Tax is a consumption tax. I too, would like to see the Fair Tax, or something similar. Problem is, congress will never let go of that power they hold by the ability to make tax laws loopholes for their own political gains.


I would say that cutting back on building America's empire would be the smartest thing to do. No more nation building and going overseas to force people to have democracy and be "Americans".

Agreed, but where do you separate nation building and snuffing out a legitimate threat? I say we were right to go into Iraq and stayed the appropriate time. Right to go to Afghanistan, but overstayed our need by several years now. Wrong to help in Libya's civil war. I am just making that distinction, and we should revive an existing thread if you wish to debate that rather than here.


That money would be better used helping America and Americans.

Helping Americans?

I would say in most cases, the best way to help Americans is with tough love. No government handouts without accountability. Make sure able bodied people are working any job they can find. Only the handicapped and elderly should receive any long term government support.

Make people help themselves.

Tough love.

[baseline bum]

I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

No, fantasy land is thinking heavily taxing consumption will drive consumption by the middle and lower classes to get the economy rolling. Fantasy land is thinking you get an economy going by taking money out of the hands of the people who spend their money and who have to stop and consider the consequences of every purchase more than a couple hundred bucks.

[Wild Cobra]

No, fantasy land is thinking heavily taxing consumption will drive consumption by the middle and lower classes to get the economy rolling. Fantasy land is thinking you get an economy going by taking money out of the hands of the people who spend their money and who have to stop and consider the consequences of every purchase more than a couple hundred bucks.
You are misunderstanding.

It is taxing people when they spend their money instead of when they make it. In the case of business, we can export products cheaper when we don't tax the productivity. It makes us more globally competitive to tax consumption like most other countries do rather than production.

If you buy a foreign car, there is little tax you are paying for to the nation it is built in. There is little tax when you buy it here. When we build and sell a car overseas, GM, Ford, etc. is taxed, and this cost carries over to a higher priced export. Then the people buying it pay taxes again on it in their country. If we want to compete in the global market, we need to change our tax structure.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

Even if this is true --and its not like oil speculators haven't grossly overstated potential finds before-- peddling our scarce natural resources for short term profits is exactly the shitty policies that we have been having for the past 30 years. We have no interest long term in growing China's economy and enriching some oil cartels some more short term when we could use those resources to maintain reasonable domestic prices 20 years from now just goes to the same old lack of vision or consideration of the future.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

No it's not. Just because you are stupid and cannot conceive of how it would be achieved does not mean that it's fantasy. Agloco just posted information regarding fusion power being energy neutral which is a huge advance. Innovation in diodes utilizing nanotech materials with no bandgap like graphene are revolutionizing solar. The efficiency of solar has been increased markedly over the past decade as has been demonstrated to you repeatedly.

You have two issues. You are still stuck in 1980 as evidenced by your limited knowledge about advances since that time. Second, you have your lips squarely fastened to the oil lobby's ass as evidenced by your posting of propane boiler brochures amongst many other things.

Those are not dreams. Those are goals. You just lack vision. Not surprising given the nature of your learning disability.

[Wild Cobra]

No it's not. Just because you are stupid and cannot conceive of how it would be achieved does not mean that it's fantasy. Agloco just posted information regarding fusion power being energy neutral which is a huge advance. Innovation in diodes utilizing nanotech materials with no bandgap like graphene are revolutionizing solar. The efficiency of solar has been increased markedly over the past decade as has been demonstrated to you repeatedly.

You have two issues. You are still stuck in 1980 as evidenced by your limited knowledge about advances since that time. Second, you have your lips squarely fastened to the oil lobby's ass as evidenced by your posting of propane boiler brochures amongst many other things.

Those are not dreams. Those are goals. You just lack vision. Not surprising given the nature of your learning disability.
They are still dreams until the cost comes down.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They are still dreams until the cost comes down.

You've been shown the trends. You base things on what you want to believe rather than rational or empirical concepts. This is nothing new and trying to persuade you is pointless.

You go ahead and believe that as gas prices go up, fusion becomes net gain in energy output and solar continues to become more cost efficient that renewables are just a dream. Myself, I earnestly hope we as a country have the foresight to insure we are on the vanguard of those markets as they expand. That's how you get market share.

Nobody takes you seriously so unless someone else comes in making similar claims I don't really care. You are not persuaded by reason so I am not going to waste my time.

[Wild Cobra]

You've been shown the trends.

Blah blah blah blah blah...
Trends can suddenly stop. I know what the probabilities are and possibilities. I am simply a realist.

[boutons_deux]

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

where is that? Bakken? fracking releases it? where is the Bs of tons of water needed? and where the the Bs of tons of highly toxic waste water be disposed?

[101A]

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

[boutons_deux]

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

One of the side effects of St Ronnie lowering CG to 15% was that executive compensation was massively switched from higher tax rate salary to stock. So exec priority, as stock holders, was to plump up the stock price AT ALL COSTS (like firing 100Ks employees, eg, H-P, iow, I, exec, need more stock price so I fire 20K employees for better profits)

SS and Medicare should also be taken from ALL revenue, not just salaries below $105K

[TeyshaBlue]

One of the side effects of St Ronnie lowering CG to 15% was that executive compensation was massively switched from higher tax rate salary to stock. So exec priority, as stock holders, was to plump up the stock price AT ALL COSTS (like firing 100Ks employees, eg, H-P, iow, I, exec, need more stock price so I fire 20K employees for better profits)

SS and Medicare should also be taken from ALL revenue, not just salaries below $105K

Troof. And surprising lucid.:toast

[boutons_deux]

Troof. And surprising lucid.:toast

GFY

TB :lol

[DarkReign]

#1 Be elected president by way of lying to every single donor to my campaign and the citizens at every turn, kissing babies, etc.

#2 Upon inauguration, immediately meet and greet every military commander privately, one on one, and decide who is with and against me.

#3 In my first State of the Union address, request very forcefully that ALL members of both the House and Senate attend

#4 Have real talk with America and its representatives like they have never heard a politician speak before.

#5 Declare the government dissolved, myself dictator and that everyone in this room is no longer allowed to leave until a new government is written and ratified. The military will lock the Capitol building down in every sense of the word.

#6 Bring in panels of experts consisting of 5 members per issue (economy, domestic policy, foreign, healthcare, law, etc) with very broad ideals that must be adhered to in the crafting of new government. Instruct them that the language to be used in the new government will not be in any way ambiguous so as no interpretation as to our original meaning will be needed. To insure this line of reasoning, there will be the Constitution and the Companion. The Constitution never changes, only amended. The Companion is a very brief, strict interpretation of intent of each and every amendment in the Constitution. This document can change, but only in as much as the previous meaning and intent is held in its entirety. Example: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is the kind of language that muddies the waters. Amendment would state: "All citizens have the right to purchase, keep and use firearms so long as they are not a convicted, violent felon, mentally handicap or otherwise deemed an official danger to society." Companion would state: "Intention: It is necessary that the People be prepared and able to defend themselves and their property from both criminals and over-reaching government." or some such statement. (this portion could go on forever, safe to say the crafting of new government would heavily burden the politician, elected officials and those in control of public welfare and order, their definitions and the consequences of corruption)

#6 After the initial shock and awe is over, inform them that once the new government is ratified, I will immediately resign and submit myself to the new government's custody to be charged/tried and/or executed should the new government determine such a fate.

#7 Die an incredibly happy man.

[Das Texan]

Semi related and semi not related:

You can only have one child while on state assistance. After that you are fucked for life. If you cannot afford a baby, then so be it. If you cant pay then you goto jail and your parental rights get terminated. There are plenty of couples that WANT to adopt, but the fucking bureauracy that exists makes it nearly impossible, unless you want some fucked up meth head kid.

This will alleviate a tremendous burden on the state systems in the long run. Short term there may be costs associated with ramping the program up, but long term it at the very least makes for a better society and shuts off these baby factory milk the got damn system welfare moms.


On that note, your benefits have to run out at some point, you cannot simply stay on aid for years upon years. Its your choice to open your fucking legs, deal with it. Grow up and be an adult.

Though Universal Health Care would be a step toward joining the fucking post modern world, you could still limit aid in the likes of food stamps et al to one child and for a limited period of time.

Also, being able to really export natural gas would be a good solution for the now, it should get rid of the massive amounts in storage now and also allow for prices to return to a more market based pricing system. Trying to work with fucking idiots in Mexico to allow for foreign companies to come in and actually develop their reserves would do wonders for not only their economy but probably ours as well.

A simplier tax code would also be great, actually what would be great is to stop just dicking over the middle class every step they get.

Term limits for Congress would eliminate career politicians and could ensure for lawmakers who will actually do productive things while in office, instead of just holding their dicks in a dick measuring contest and doing nothing useful.

[boutons_deux]

"You can only have one child while on state assistance."

I think it's AZ, a GREAT FUCKING STATE that just never stops being THE GREATEST, that is not only effectively blocking all abortions for all reasons, but requiring raped mothers to contact/identify the "father" before mother can claim assistance. (loose paraphrase).

[I. Hustle]

http://www.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1066778!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_370/image.jpg

[Das Texan]

"You can only have one child while on state assistance."

I think it's AZ, a GREAT FUCKING STATE that just never stops being THE GREATEST, that is not only effectively blocking all abortions for all reasons, but requiring raped mothers to contact/identify the "father" before mother can claim assistance. (loose paraphrase).

AZ is so stupid.

They do realize that there are times when the woman has no clue who the fucking asshole even is right???

[symple19]

haha @ wino's picture

Universal health care
flat tax with the exception of those who make over 250k...(higher for them but would still probably be lower than it is today after I axe half the federal government)
legalize and tax all but the most destructive drugs, decriminalize the rest
Release non-violent offenders (which would ensure the closing of probably half of the prisons, both federal and state)
Eliminate a slew of federal agencies (TSA,DHS,DEA,ATF etc etc)
Close probably half of our overseas bases. Leave the ones that are strategically important
Federally mandate a year-round schedule for schools as well as block scheduling
Federally mandate a free undergrad education for those with B averages and above, provide low rate loans for the rest
Amend the constitution to require a balanced budget
Elimination of the federal reserve system to be replaced with a new, completely transparent organization to be formed after a massive conference filled with the brightest minds of our time (my way of saying the current system sucks and I have no real idea how to replace it)
Much, much more federal regulation of the banking system
A simple pathway to citizenship for both illegal/legal immigrants after an intensive "americanization" process whereby they are schooled in our customs and taught the language to some level of fluidity. Don't like it? Shot into the ocean where lots of sharks live by a giant cannon. Erect automated sentry cannons with interlocking fields of fire along the entire land border with both canada and mexico. mines underneath the surface and heavily increased patrols on sea routes
Heavy investment in art and music programs
Massive infrastructure investment

Politics?

Scrap everything and set up a parliamentary system which would (probably) ensure coalition building and more than 2 shitty un-representative parties
Zero private funds allowed for any reason in political races/parties...Equal amounts of government money would be set aside for every single candidate/race at all levels
Take away a vast majority of state/local powers to govern themselves (by standardizing things that don't vary from state to state - highways, schools, IDs, etc... thereby eliminating swaths of state bureaucracies) and mandate balanced budgets at their level as well
No electoral college
Standardized voting nationwide

[RandomGuy]

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

+1

Shockingly enough, this thread seems to have produced a lot of good ideas, even one such as DR's drastic steps.

[RandomGuy]

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

It's untapped because it costs too much go get at for reasons that have nothing to do with regulations, and everything to do with simple physics.

Even so, even if we produced enough oil to meet our current demands plus a little to export, we would still be vulnerable to middle east price shocks. You do understand this, yes?

[RandomGuy]

I would hire and pay the world's best economists and mathematicians to figure out what method/plan is the one that is going to save the most money and create the most revenue. Whatever it is, that's the way it would be. No ifs, ands, or buts. I would also try to get Congress to support something like having a fair tax and maybe some consumption taxes. I would say that cutting back on building America's empire would be the smartest thing to do. No more nation building and going overseas to force people to have democracy and be "Americans". That money would be better used helping America and Americans. I also think that America needs to try to slowly and gradually reduce the number of people that depend on government handouts like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I mean if you need assistance and are unable to help yourself, then great but if you're free loading, that shit would end. Cutting back on nation building, wars, and government handouts would help the economy a lot. If only politicians would support that, then things might start to look better.

You seem to be assuming that one of their solutions isn't "help the rest of the world's economic development using massive amounts of foreign aid".

Ask an economist what effects sustained growth of 5-12% in Africa will have on the US economy. We do have a Phd running around here.

[LnGrrrR]

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

Even though I'm a GASP! scary liberal, I agree with all of these ideas.

[Th'Pusher]

Even though I'm a GASP! scary liberal, I agree with all of these ideas.

thats because they're wildly liberal ideas.

[LnGrrrR]

thats because they're wildly liberal ideas.


Oh come now.. they're liberal, but I wouldn't say they're WILDLY liberal. :)

[boutons_deux]

here's Big Picture look of how UCA/govt policies have screwed USA

The Betrayal of America's Middle Class Was a Choice, Not an Accident


http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11893-the-betrayal-of-americas-middle-class-was-a-choice-not-an-accident-an-interview-with-authors-donald-barlett-and-james-steele

[baseline bum]

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

Point #1 is a good one. On the second point I would start building public transportation such as light rail in cities instead of expanding the highway system. It will be a great investment for the future as energy costs go to hell and would seriously open up the highways for those who can afford to and would rather drive.

[Das Texan]

and offer another real alternative to flying long term.

[baseline bum]

You are misunderstanding.

It is taxing people when they spend their money instead of when they make it. In the case of business, we can export products cheaper when we don't tax the productivity. It makes us more globally competitive to tax consumption like most other countries do rather than production.

If you buy a foreign car, there is little tax you are paying for to the nation it is built in. There is little tax when you buy it here. When we build and sell a car overseas, GM, Ford, etc. is taxed, and this cost carries over to a higher priced export. Then the people buying it pay taxes again on it in their country. If we want to compete in the global market, we need to change our tax structure.


Speaking of

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/190/1/d/unicorns_puke_rainbows_by_chronicle_vindictive-d56nvl0.gif

[Th'Pusher]

and offer another real alternative to flying long term.

Like a teleporter?

[mavs>spurs]

It's untapped because it costs too much go get at for reasons that have nothing to do with regulations, and everything to do with simple physics.

Even so, even if we produced enough oil to meet our current demands plus a little to export, we would still be vulnerable to middle east price shocks. You do understand this, yes?

it's simple, put funding into ways to get at it. start by taking that trillion dollars we spend playing world police and use it to actually pull up something of value out of the ground under our fat stupid asses.

it can be done, the methods just haven't been invented yet.

[clambake]

yes, lets spend taxpayer money to produce the oil so the oilco's can sell it to the world.

bravo

[mavs>spurs]

yes, let's spend tax payer money getting our asses kicked by the taliban and made fun of around the world while our country circles the drain, that'll show me

[clambake]

how about not play world police and not spend taxpayer money so the oilco's can sell it to the world.

[Drachen]

it's simple, put funding into ways to get at it. start by taking that trillion dollars we spend playing world police and use it to actually pull up something of value out of the ground under our fat stupid asses.

it can be done, the methods just haven't been invented yet.

Then why wouldn't we just put that funding into research for better power sources? Oil is dumb.

[mavs>spurs]

also..if govt invented and patented the method, wouldn't they get a big share of the money coming from firms using it? wouldn't we be less vulnerable to oil supply shocks? aren't you a dumbass yes?

[mavs>spurs]

i'd like to see more research put into uses for natural gas as well. fuck the middle east, fuck those assholes, and fuck the rest of the world. we have everything we need right here in america, let's start focusing our resources on things that are going to bring us future prosperity.

[clambake]

also..if govt invented and patented the method, wouldn't they get a big share of the money coming from firms using it? wouldn't we be less vulnerable to oil supply shocks? aren't you a dumbass yes?

you think the govt. is going to "invent it"?

who's the dumbass?

[mavs>spurs]

yeah, government funded research is a lot better idea than government funded world policing. what the fuck do you have against science and innovation?

[clambake]

we already fund them. have been for years. they get all the breaks.

you got this weird idea in your head that the oil would be ours.

[ElNono]

i'd like to see more research put into uses for natural gas as well. fuck the middle east, fuck those assholes, and fuck the rest of the world. we have everything we need right here in america, let's start focusing our resources on things that are going to bring us future prosperity.

While I agree about putting our tax dollars to help ourselves first, what normally happens is the government funds either a company or university project, then they turn around and claim the patents on them.
But even if a company would license tech from the government, the government just can't force the licensees to sell stuff at below market value (well, they could, but I doubt there would be any takers). For example, oil is much more expensive in Europe. A company simply won't :cry put Amurica first :cry, they'll sell their product to the highest bidder (ie: Europe). Companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders. They don't give a fuck about the country.

[mavs>spurs]

so tell me this..who owns the oil right now where it sits then? and how would any oil company purchase it or sell it without first gaining access? if there was say a patent for such a method..someone would pay top dollar for that right?

[mavs>spurs]

While I agree about putting our tax dollars to help ourselves first, what normally happens is the government funds either a company or university project, then they turn around and claim the patents on them.
But even if a company would license tech from the government, the government just can't force the licensees to sell stuff at below market value (well, they could, but I doubt there would be any takers). For example, oil is much more expensive in Europe. A company simply won't :cry put Amurica first :cry, they'll sell their product to the highest bidder (ie: Europe). Companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders. They don't give a fuck about the country.

cool, then america gets a cut of all the oil sold to europe.

[ElNono]

cool, then america gets a cut of all the oil sold to europe.

Right, but gas is still $4/gallon...

[mavs>spurs]

...and the government gains another source of revenue other than taxing it away from us or borrowing it and fucking us up with the debt.

[ElNono]

...and the government gains another source of revenue other than taxing it away from us or borrowing it and fucking us up with the debt.

No argument there. Probably gain jobs too.

That said, we then would be discussing if the government shouldn't be running the business instead a private company.

[Borat Sagyidev]

This is pointless.

The final solution involves deporting sit on ass conservatives like WC into the Gulf and replacing them with hardworking immigrants from south of the border to get production going again.

[clambake]

No argument there. Probably gain jobs too.

That said, we then would be discussing if the government shouldn't be running the business instead a private company.
you commie bastard!

[mavs>spurs]

This is pointless.

The final solution involves deporting sit on ass conservatives like WC into the Gulf and replacing them with hardworking immigrants from south of the border to get production going again.

...and create a bunch of low paying slave wage jobs? that's just a race to the bottom. manufacturing is gone and it ain't coming back. our only hope is innovation...the same thing that's always kept us ahead of the pack. something we've stopped doing. this country places no value in learning any more..the kids look up to rappers and athletes not great leaders.

[mavs>spurs]

as far as that goes, if we brought in even more be@ners than we already have they'd never be able to earn enough money to pay back what they take in the form of social services. they'd all be on food stamps, and every time they go to the hospital it would cost a month's pay. thinking bean3rs are going to fix the economy is only going to set us back. remember, low wage workers and impoverished are less healthy on average in a country with skyrocketing medical costs.

[boutons_deux]

as has happened in other agricultural areas, WA state apple crop is a good one, while other apple regions had middling or bad years.

So what's the problem? no enough migrant workers to pick the apples. One farmer on NPR said he'd been in the business since 1965 and never saw one white person, Euro-American, last more than an hour, gone before he could even comlete the worker's paperwork.

[Das Texan]

double post

[Das Texan]

so tell me this..who owns the oil right now where it sits then? and how would any oil company purchase it or sell it without first gaining access? if there was say a patent for such a method..someone would pay top dollar for that right?


What oil formation are you even talking about?

[MannyIsGod]

it's simple, put funding into ways to get at it. start by taking that trillion dollars we spend playing world police and use it to actually pull up something of value out of the ground under our fat stupid asses.

it can be done, the methods just haven't been invented yet.




Yeah - oil companies have no resources into doing this right now. We need American taxpayer money to fund it.

SMH

[Clipper Nation]

- End the Federal Reserve, allow competing currencies, bring back the gold standard
- Abolish the IRS and the income tax, and stop wasting the taxpayer money that comes in from user fees, tariffs, highway fees, excise taxes, etc.
- Get the fuck out of NAFTA immediately and actually engage in free trade
- Stop the endless, expensive nation-building abroad and surveillance at home, no more foreign aid
- Cut government spending and run government in line with the Constitution
- Shut down unnecessary bureaucracies that waste taxpayer money and drive up costs for small business owners

[Heath Ledger]

Cut military spending in half right off the bat perhaps more. Eliminate forreign aid, its time get our ship in order fuck the rest.... We have been too generous for far too long.

[DMC]

Unlike WC who could have kept Jesus alive and still saved mankind, I don't feel qualified to offer solutions to national fiscal issues. I simply don't have enough information, don't care enough to learn it, and don't need to feel like I know everything under the Sun in order to exist.

[johnsmith]

Unlike WC who could have kept Jesus alive and still saved mankind, I don't feel qualified to offer solutions to national fiscal issues. I simply don't have enough information, don't care enough to learn it, and don't need to feel like I know everything under the Sun in order to exist.

:lol

[Stringer_Bell]

Let's cut spending in half across the board, except for military. I would invade resource-rich countries, not apologize for shit while taking their land away - and turn those countries into massive call-centers for the companies that sell goods manufactured (in the USA, of fucking course!) using those resources. We need to stay #1 in the world, and by golly we can - just gotta stay dedicated to sticking our dicks in every shit-hole country that can't fight back.

Oh yea, and I'd cut medicare and social security completely cuz old people aren't doing shit anyway - fuck 'em.

Also, I feel like having a Reagan-like President would help a lot. Dunno why, just makes me feel warm and fuzzy. I just feel like anyone that has problems with my vision would have a hard time arguing with a Reagan-like President.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

A national sales tax with no income tax is a hugely regressive tax plan that's extremely retarded and would completely destroy the middle class in due time.

[Nbadan]

Cut military spending in half right off the bat perhaps more. Eliminate forreign aid, its time get our ship in order fuck the rest.... We have been too generous for far too long.

Ok, but cutting military spending and eliminating foreign aid means less US jobs...while I think that we can certainly control our spending...or rather, be more efficient in military spending..a more efficient military does not necessarily have to equal a more vulnerable world...

[Jacob1983]

I somewhat agree with the tough love approach. It would probably save a lot of money. Handouts and entitlement programs from cradle to crave take a huge chunk out of the budget and there are too many freeloaders and lazy asses. But yeah, America needs to cut back dramatically on building the empire, nation building, wars, handouts, and entitlement programs. If a president and congress do that, then America will be on the right track.

[velik_m]

I think the primary thing we need to do, is to return manufacturing jobs to our nation. If I were in power to do so, I would change our way of taxation. A national sales tax, no income tax, and tariffs.

The chinese are already working on bringing manufacturing jobs back to america: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/137263-lenovo-annouunces-plans-to-bring-manufacturing-back-to-the-us

All kidding aside: simplified and unifed taxation rules are always a win, especially for the small businesses. Tariffs are a bad idea, besides high oil prices will rise the price of transportation and act as a kind of pro-local tariff anyway.

As far as jobs go - i think manufacturing and non-manufacturing jobs is a wrong mindset. What we're seeing in this crisis is a result of technical boom of 90s - it just took a while for a full effect to set in. This crisis we're experiencing is the dying of boring jobs - you know the jobs that can be automated by a computer. It will just take a while to settle, but in the future only three kinds of jobs will be left - the arhitects (who build automated processes), the techs (who keep things running and fix things - aka "the dirty jobs") and specialist (people with top notch skill in theri field who handle cases that cannot be automated). There is no simple way to fix the economy until all the boring jobs are gone and people are all settled in their new jobs, so we're better off just leaving things to play out. (You could probably speed up the process, but that involves doing unpopular things and no politican would do that).

[z0sa]

Fix the tax code's many issues
Greatly reduce prison and military spending
Legalize pot and cocaine and amnesty all prisoners/convicts who have been busted for these drug-related charges
Greatly reduce sentences across the board for anything but violent crime



then see what happens and work from there.

[SnakeBoy]

bring back the gold standard


What price would you fix an ounce of gold at under your gold standard?

[RandomGuy]

it's simple, put funding into ways to get at it. start by taking that trillion dollars we spend playing world police and use it to actually pull up something of value out of the ground under our fat stupid asses.

it can be done, the methods just haven't been invented yet.

So you want to spend how much funding this research on some completely unknown technology, that would, if found, still require strip-mining vast tracts of land?
Why is this better than spending the same dollars on renewable energy that is a lot closer to being competitive with this form of energy already?

You also didn't answer my other question.

You do understand, that even if we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on this wish list, that we would still be subject to oil supply disruptions from the middle east that would effect our pump prices, yes?

Even if we made all the oil we consumed, that does not go away.

[Winehole23]

maybe this trend will turn it around:


Despite all the attention the trade deficit receives each month, little heed has been paid to the rapid expansion of U.S. exports, which have been growing nearly three times faster than gross domestic product since 2005. As a share of the U.S. economy, exports are at their highest point in 50 years.


Rather than slow down any time soon, our research indicates this export boom is likely to continue. Combined with manufacturing “reshored” from China, the increased exports could create 2.5 million to 5 million U.S. jobs (http://www.bcg.com/media/PressReleaseDetails.aspx?id=tcm:12-116389) by 2020.
We’re optimistic because the U.S. is steadily becoming (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-10-01/winning-the-factory-wars#r=blg-s) one of the lowest-cost countries for manufacturing in the developed world. By around 2015, total U.S. manufacturing costs will be 8 percent lower than in the U.K., 15 percent lower than in Germany and France, and 21 percent lower than Japan’s. At the same time, rapidly rising wages and other costs are eroding China’s once-formidable advantage.


Our new research, part of BCG’s ongoing study (https://www.bcgperspectives.com/content/articles/manufacturing_supply_chain_management_made_in_amer ica_again/) of the changing global economics of manufacturing, focuses on U.S. cost-competiveness trends vs. those in Western Europe and Japan. Together, the U.S., Western Europe, and Japan account for around 60 percent of global manufactured exports.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-10-05/america-s-export-surge-is-just-beginning#r=hpt-fs

[Winehole23]

otoh, consider the "peak growth" meme:


One of the more persistent economic ideas rattling through the intelligentsia is that the last 250 years of amazing innovation, productivity and growth —from the steam-engine birth of the first industrial revolution in the 1700s to last month’s launch of the iPhone 5 — have come to an end. The nations of the developed world, especially the United States, have seen their best centuries. Growth has peaked. The future is flatlined.


Serious economists are throwing their good names behind this speculative idea, the latest being Robert J. Gordon, at Northwestern University. In a U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research working paper, Prof. Gordon raises the possibility that the last 250 years “could well turn out to be a unique episode in human history.” The opening words of the paper’s title are designed to provoke: “Is U.S. Economic Growth Over?”


http://financialpostopinion.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/fp1006-decline-in-growth.jpg?w=329&h=386
While Prof. Gordon is talking about the United States, his thesis would apply to the United Kingdom and other developed nations. Prior to 1750, growth rates were non-existent on a per capita basis over hundreds of years. Then, fed by three main waves of innovation — from the steam engine era to the dawn of electricity to the computer revolution — growth in Britain and the U.S. soared. But those spectacular rates of growth — averaging more than 3.5% over much of the last century — actually “peaked” in the middle of the last century, says Prof. Gordon, and have been in decline ever since, with worse to come.


Prof. Gordon’s analysis, about which more later, received world-wide publicity in the Financial Times on Wednesday when economics columnist Martin Wolf endorsed the idea that the era of unlimited growth is over. “Get used to this,” he wrote a little too enthusiastically as he turned the slow growth theory into an Occupy theme. “For almost two centuries, today’s high-income countries enjoyed waves of innovation that made them both far more prosperous than before and farm more powerful than everybody else. This was the world of the America dream and American exceptionalism. Now innovation is slow…. The elites of the high-income countries quite like this new world. The rest of their population like it vastly less.”
Preposterous though that last bit about the elites being slow-growthers, Prof. Gordon may have prompted Mr. Wolfe’s little aside with his experimental calculations that future U.S. growth might average 0.2% in future. This suggests, wrote Prof. Gordon, “that future growth in consumption per capita for the bottom 99% of the income distribution could fall below 0.5% per year for an extended period of time.”


Another economist who has been trumpeting a long-term decline in U.S. growth is John Ross, Visiting Professor at Antai College of Economics and Management, Jiao Tong University, Shanghai. He sees a “long-term deceleration” in U.S. economic performance, a trend he pins in part on the failure of “Reaganite/neo-Liberal policies.”


In Prof. Ross’s view, this entrenched decline in growth rates should be the dominant focus of current economic analysis and forecasting. It is folly, in this context, to constantly view quarterly U.S. growth data as “disappointing” when in fact the much-lamented slow growth of GDP they may be the new normal. “Analysts are surprised by the new data only when they have no internalized or built into their models this long term deceleration of the U.S. economy.”

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/10/05/and-now-peak-growth-theory/

[Winehole23]

the Martin Wolf bit in FT cited above: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/78e883fa-0bef-11e2-8032-00144feabdc0.html#axzz28XXqYcVS