Electing the Backup Point Guard

[timvp]

With the 2012-13 training camp underway, perhaps the most intriguing battle on the Spurs depth chart can be found at backup point guard. No less than four players have a legit chance to secure the backup PG duties. Here's a quick rundown of each candidate:



PLAYER
PROS
CONS


Gary Neal
The incumbent, Gary Neal was actually quite productive in the role for much of the season after taking over for T.J. Ford. Offensively during the regular season, the Spurs were extremely potent with Neal running the show. He's not only one of the best shooters in the league, he's able to create his own shots at times and has shown a knack of hitting timely shots. While not a great passer, he illustrated improvement in pick-and-roll sets as last season progressed.
Defensively, Neal is atrocious. If he's not the worst defensive point guard in the NBA, he's in the running. While he has quality size for the position, he lacks the quickness to stay in front of all but the slowest PGs. On offense, though the Spurs scored while he was at the helm, he's a below average ballhandler and passer for the position. In the playoffs, Neal didn't play well and ended up being a liability at both ends when he was at point guard.


Patrick Mills
If you read between the lines during the offseason, Pop and the coaching staff indicated that Patrick Mills would play a bigger role this season. If you look at what he's done since signing with the Spurs, it's difficult to find many negatives. He averaged double-figures for the Spurs in 16 games despite playing only 16.3 minutes per contest. Quarterbacking an overachieving Australian squad, Mills led all the Olympics with a scoring overage of 21.2 points. As the numbers suggest, Mills is a very good scorer who is never afraid to let it fly. Defensively, while his size limits his upside, he's shown a willingness to compete and pressure the basketball.
Although he's only a six-footer if you're feeling generous, Mills isn't a true point guard. He's a pretty good ballhandler but not as good as you'd suspect for someone with his size and speed. He's not selfish but he's also not going to win you basketball games with his passing ability. In fact, when it comes to running pick-and-rolls, he's the least accomplished of the four players on this list. Considering the Spurs rely on such sets so much, that's not going to help his candidacy. Defensively, his ceiling is to become average for a backup PG. He's just too slight to ever become a true asset on that end of the court.


Cory Joseph
Cory Joseph was really good during summer league. In five games, he averaged 17 points, 5.2 assists and 4.4 rebounds, while shooting 47.8% from the field and 40% from beyond the three-point arc. Compared to his rookie season, his improvement was stunning. On offense, he knocked down open jumpers, scored off the dribble and finished at the rim rather well. His leadership skills and the way he orchestrated the offense were usually positives. He passed the ball well, particularly on pick-and-roll sets. Defensively, he has the size, athleticism and dedication to become a difference-maker. He's not there yet but he has the tools. Overall, perhaps his most notable positive is the rate at which he seems to be improving.
Joseph still has a lot to prove. He's only 21 years old and his resume is lackluster. In college, he was a disappointment. His rookie season -- both with the Spurs and with the Toros -- was underwhelming. While he played well in summer league, it's impossible to ignore the small sample size. Speaking of summer league, it's also worth noting that he turned the ball over too much (3.4 turnovers per game) and his intensity on both ends was inconsistent. I believe it's safe to say that Joseph restored his standing as a legit prospect but it's too early to say with confidence that he's ready for the bright lights. The Spurs might prefer to have Joseph spend another year in Austin and begin the year with a more proven commodity.


Nando De Colo
The tallest of the four candidates, Nando De Colo is a legit 6-foot-5. And while he's not an athletic wunderkind, he's light on his feet and his length for the position is a definite asset. In Europe, De Colo did his best work in pick-and-rolls -- an aspect that will translate well to what the Spurs would want out of him. He has also shown promise as a shooter and his experience playing with Tony Parker and Boris Diaw shouldn't be ignored. Neither should the fact that France ran San Antonio's offense, which hypothetically will result in a shorter learning curve.
Is De Colo a shooting guard or point guard in the NBA? That question is still up for debate. While his athleticism isn't a weakness, it's asking a lot for any 6-foot-5 player to stay in front of the quicker point guards in the NBA. On offense, he has a lot to prove. While he was a good player in Europe, he wasn't a star. He was more thought of as an up-and-coming prospect than a sure thing. De Colo also has a rep for making easy plays more difficult than necessary. Plus, he isn't known to be especially sound fundamentally -- a trait that could quickly aggravate the coaching staff.



My questions for the denizens of SpursTalk:

1. Who would you elect as the Spurs backup point guard?

2. Who do you think Pop will go with to start the season?

3. Who do you think will be the backup point guard come playoff time?

[JR3]

1.Patty Mills
2.Gary Neal
3.Nando De Colo

[ElNono]

1. Who would you elect as the Spurs backup point guard?

Patty Mills


2. Who do you think Pop will go with to start the season?

Gary Neal


3. Who do you think will be the backup point guard come playoff time?

Gary Neal

Thanks for the writeup!

[timtonymanu]

As of right now,

1. Patty Mills
2. Gary Neal
3. Gary Neal

Neal is obviously the most experienced in the Spurs system. Unless Joseph or De Colo come out of nowhere (like Danny Green last season), it's pretty much a race between Patty and Neal.

I'm more concerned about the backup power forward position.

[Drom John]

1) Ginobili
2) Mills
3) De Colo
4) Joseph

SG) Neal

[objective]

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Ginobili

[benefactor]

Neal will be traded.

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Mills(with Manu splitting time)

[Spurs Brazil]

1.Mills
2.Neal
3.Mills

[TD 21]

Let's face it, two guys (Neal and Mills) have a legit shot at securing the primary backup point guard role. I'm not sure why people are pretending otherwise, when it's clear De Colo is bound for the inactive list and Joseph is bound for the Toros.

I'm also not sure why so many are surprised to see Neal starting at point in the scrimmage. Not that Mills can't and won't take his spot at some point, but make no mistake, Neal is the slight favorite going in, for the simple fact that he's the incumbent. He doesn't have to prove anything. Mills, on the other hand, has to take his spot. They're not just going to hand it to him on the basis of him technically being a natural point guard.

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Mills

[Leetonidas]

Mills is not a natural point guard at all

[spursince#99]

Patty Mills is a baller and that's all that matters. Therefore, he'll take Neal spot.

[Libri]

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Neal

I think De Colo will get the Oberto treatment and will not play significant minutes in his first year.

[DesignatedT]

This is really a tough decision imo. Both are so similar but Neal performed well in the spot last year. I do think Patty deserves a shot though.

Either way, I think both are fully capable.

[justinandimcool]

i would love to see Patty starting out, see where that takes us. but IMO he's a faster, more selfish Neal, tbh. but that speed could be what elevates this team, or at least that bench-- to the next level.

[dunkman]

Mills, he's good both on offense and defense.
Neal or De Colo will have trouble defensively, Cory isn't ready yet.

[team-work]

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Mills (he beats Neal for the backup PG spot or Neal is traded.)

[TD 21]

Mills is not a natural point guard at all

I meant in the sense that there's no other position you'd consider playing him at. There's a difference between natural and pure though.

[Bruno]

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Mills

Joseph might quickly enter in the mix with good preseason games. At the end, I think the battle for the backup PG spot will be between Mills and Joseph with Neal and De Colo being more SGs.

[timvp]

Let's face it, two guys (Neal and Mills) have a legit shot at securing the primary backup point guard role. I'm not sure why people are pretending otherwise, when it's clear De Colo is bound for the inactive list and Joseph is bound for the Toros.Disagree. The Spurs wouldn't sign a player for more than the minimum without thinking he could do more than sit on the inactive list. That'd make no sense. At some point, I'm confident De Colo will be given a chance.

Coming into the summer, the Spurs probably had Joseph penciled into Austin's starting lineup. But his play this summer has been good enough to make them reconsider that penciling.

Personally, I'm rooting for Joseph in this competition. He's a definite darkhorse right now but I like his defensive potential and the fact that he's probably the only one of the four who could possibly be the long-term starter down the road. Plus, if he wins the competition, it means he has become an undeniable force.

Go CJ :tu

[jesterbobman]

I'm also rooting for Joseph. In a back court with Manu as a de facto PG, there isn't as much value in a PG being a huge creative force. Joseph's D has the most benefit, and if he can shoot well the spacing will be fine.

Realistically, I think Pop will start with Neal, and it'll be a battle between Mills and Neal to be the back up come playoff time. I could easily see a tighter rotation come playoff time though, where Manu is our reserve guard.

[TD 21]

Disagree. The Spurs wouldn't sign a player for more than the minimum without thinking he could do more than sit on the inactive list. That'd make no sense. At some point, I'm confident De Colo will be given a chance.

Coming into the summer, the Spurs probably had Joseph penciled into Austin's starting lineup. But his play this summer has been good enough to make them reconsider that penciling.

Personally, I'm rooting for Joseph in this competition. He's a definite darkhorse right now but I like his defensive potential and the fact that he's probably the only one of the four who could possibly be the long-term starter down the road. Plus, if he wins the competition, it means he has become an undeniable force.

Go CJ :tu

I thought so too throughout the majority of the summer, but based on them standing pat, apparently they would (who else would they deactivate?). The reality is, it's going to to take multiple injuries simultaneously or Neal and Mills struggling mightily for De Colo or Joseph to be given a legit shot at being in the rotation this season. Otherwise, they're a year away.

Merit has very little to do with professional sports. Last season, it didn't matter that Green was better than Neal and Anderson. He only got the chance to show it when Neal got injured and Anderson struggled mightily.

I'm not rooting for anyone specifically, but like most, I think Mills is best suited for the role at this time.

[Leetonidas]

I meant in the sense that there's no other position you'd consider playing him at. There's a difference between natural and pure though.


ah, gotcha i get what you mean

[Kidd K]

Neal will be on the team, but will not be given the backup PG role. Ginobili will still split the duties with Parker like last year. We have the same ball handling weakness we always did. Only two guys worth a shit at doing it. Too bad Ford got hurt.

Joseph will probably spend the year with the Toros again unless Neal's traded, which is certainly looking possible with the De Colo signing, and fact that Mills really isn't much worse than Neal offensively, and despite being small isn't any worse defensively either.

De Colo, who knows. I think he's too shaky to end up being on the team and getting significant minutes the way Neal did a couple years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if he spent half the year with the Toros and got called up if Neal gets traded.

[iManu]

1. Mills
2. Mills
3. Mills

[SpursRock20]

I'd like to see Mills as the backup point guard, Pop will begin Neal in the beginning of the season at this spot, but end up replacing him with Mills.

[justinandimcool]

When was the last time we had two guys battle each other for a spot? Not sure having internal animosity is great for a team that hasn't given too much stock in rotation "spots" (aka having our second best player come off the bench, 10 man rotation, DNP-CD for stars, backups getting bigger minutes than starters some games).

Like I said earlier, I like Gary, but Mills could be what elevates this team from great to elite. I say play them both, depending on the situation and opponent.

[MaNu4Tres]

Whoever produces/performs the best during the course of the season will be the back up point guard come playoff time (barring injury of course).

Spurs have a lot of options obviously. Let the competition began.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I see the criteria for the job being: play defense, be able to handle backcourt pressure, and initiate the pick and roll. I'm not sure who fits that bill the best so far. I think CoJo has the best chance to fit that job description eventually but it might not be this year.

[benfti]

Underestimate Mills at your peril. That guys entire career has been him achieving despite the odds.

As an indigenous Australian getting a look in a sport that was not AFL or Rugby he stood a very small chance of getting noticed.

He very nearly didnt make it into the AIS as a junior, he missed the cut and if it wasnt for a guy withdrawing from the program to play Aussie Rules football, Mills never would have got the last spot.

He then plays so well in that school that he gets invited to a collage try out, he is one of the last choices to be shopped and ends up catching on at St Marys only through a family friend pushing hard for him.

Going to St Marys expecting to come off the bench deep in the rotation he works his way up to starter and then All-WCC First Team in his first season

He then becomes the youngest Australian Boomer since Luc Longy to be selected for an Olympic team. Again expecting to not see any court time works his way into the 6th man spot and scores above 20 against Argentina and team USA.

As the hype starts to build and the talk of him leaving school early to turn pro as a lottery pick becons (his face offs against Rubio vs Spain and Curry at the NIT champs he heads in the draft and slips to pick 55 to the portland trailblazers.

Expected to be stashed over season Mills shocks everyone by signing the qualifying offer sheet despite European offers, but fractures his navicular bone at training for the Summer League hoping to prove he is worthy of a roster spot. After a 3 month recovery Mills is assigned to the Idaho Stampede and in his first game back after recovery drops 38 and 12 and gets recalled to the Blazers where he makes his debut and finishes off the season getting rare scrub minutes behind Andre Miller, Steve Blake and Jerryd Bayless.

He hangs around again signing a QO when the blazers already had a roster of 17 in 2010 and if it wasnt for a late trade before the season starts that sees Bayless go he gets the 15th roster spot backing up Miller and Armon Johnson.Johnson assumes that back up roll with Roy taking up the spot minutes left over and Patty gets 3 minutes of court time in the first 20 games total. McMillian frustrated with Johnsons propensity for turnovers turns to Mills in desperation mid way through the year and Mills takes the opportunity with both hands playing out the season as Millers primary back up.

Without contract and heading into a lock out season Mills heads back to Australia to play locally with the Melbourne Tigers, he plays 9 games there when his agent (who is no longer his agent LOL) tells him the whole NBA season is going to be wiped and signs a 1 year deal to play in China. After a hamstring injury Mills is released near the midway point of the NBA season,and ends up being a late season signing for the San Antonio Spurs much to do with Brett Browns influence.

We all know he ends the season as a spur scoring 10.3ppg averaging 16 minutes per game over the last 18 games of the regular season.

Heading to London Olympics minus Bogut Patty assumes the captaincy of the boomers and the primary focus of all teams competeing against the Australians, despite this the 6ft Aussie ends the tournament with Australia largly over achieving (quarter final knocked out by USA) and taking the all tournament scoring title and earning all Olympic second team honours.

Patty Mills always exceeds anyone's expectations.

Not only will he end up the primary back up. He is the next starter for the Spurs after TP moves on..

[flipspursfan]

Underestimate Mills at your peril. That guys entire career has been him achieving despite the odds.

As an indigenous Australian getting a look in a sport that was not AFL or Rugby he stood a very small chance of getting noticed.

He very nearly didnt make it into the AIS as a junior, he missed the cut and if it wasnt for a guy withdrawing from the program to play Aussie Rules football, Mills never would have got the last spot.

He then plays so well in that school that he gets invited to a collage try out, he is one of the last choices to be shopped and ends up catching on at St Marys only through a family friend pushing hard for him.

Going to St Marys expecting to come off the bench deep in the rotation he works his way up to starter and then All-WCC First Team in his first season

He then becomes the youngest Australian Boomer since Luc Longy to be selected for an Olympic team. Again expecting to not see any court time works his way into the 6th man spot and scores above 20 against Argentina and team USA.

As the hype starts to build and the talk of him leaving school early to turn pro as a lottery pick becons (his face offs against Rubio vs Spain and Curry at the NIT champs he heads in the draft and slips to pick 55 to the portland trailblazers.

Expected to be stashed over season Mills shocks everyone by signing the qualifying offer sheet despite European offers, but fractures his navicular bone at training for the Summer League hoping to prove he is worthy of a roster spot. After a 3 month recovery Mills is assigned to the Idaho Stampede and in his first game back after recovery drops 38 and 12 and gets recalled to the Blazers where he makes his debut and finishes off the season getting rare scrub minutes behind Andre Miller, Steve Blake and Jerryd Bayless.

He hangs around again signing a QO when the blazers already had a roster of 17 in 2010 and if it wasnt for a late trade before the season starts that sees Bayless go he gets the 15th roster spot backing up Miller and Armon Johnson.Johnson assumes that back up roll with Roy taking up the spot minutes left over and Patty gets 3 minutes of court time in the first 20 games total. McMillian frustrated with Johnsons propensity for turnovers turns to Mills in desperation mid way through the year and Mills takes the opportunity with both hands playing out the season as Millers primary back up.

Without contract and heading into a lock out season Mills heads back to Australia to play locally with the Melbourne Tigers, he plays 9 games there when his agent (who is no longer his agent LOL) tells him the whole NBA season is going to be wiped and signs a 1 year deal to play in China. After a hamstring injury Mills is released near the midway point of the NBA season,and ends up being a late season signing for the San Antonio Spurs much to do with Brett Browns influence.

We all know he ends the season as a spur scoring 10.3ppg averaging 16 minutes per game over the last 18 games of the regular season.

Heading to London Olympics minus Bogut Patty assumes the captaincy of the boomers and the primary focus of all teams competeing against the Australians, despite this the 6ft Aussie ends the tournament with Australia largly over achieving (quarter final knocked out by USA) and taking the all tournament scoring title and earning all Olympic second team honours.

Patty Mills always exceeds anyone's expectations.

Not only will he end up the primary back up. He is the next starter for the Spurs after TP moves on..



I think I recall an article written about the story of indigenous Australians and how the government made an act to prevent people like Patty form ever existing. Pretty cool story for a guy with Patty's character. I sincerely hope he develops into a starter for the Spurs eventually and I also hope that CoJo can develop into a solid player a Spurs can use in their rotations.

[racm]

55th picks don't drop 34 and 12 in an NBA game, tbh...

[urunobili]

Mills
Manu
DeColo

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think I recall an article written about the story of indigenous Australians and how the government made an act to prevent people like Patty form ever existing. Pretty cool story for a guy with Patty's character. I sincerely hope he develops into a starter for the Spurs eventually and I also hope that CoJo can develop into a solid player a Spurs can use in their rotations.

Think about how black folks were treated in the South circa 1965 and you have an idea what it is like in Australia today for aborigines.

[temujin]

1) Half of the NBA teams don't have a starting PG that is worth half of Mills, score-wise. If I ever had a doubt, that was cancelled in the Olympics.
2) Popovich is a conservative, and he will go with Neal, in the first 10 games.
3) IF Mills can be decent on defense, I expect him to come in when Parker gets out.

Popovich is a great coach, but the one black spot is having confidence in a specific backup PG. It is somewhat inexplicable to me, excpet that he can only trust one floor general at the time, and that is Parker.

[Libri]

Whoever spreads the floor.

[superbigtime]

Pop is going to stick with Neal and backup PG to drive us all nuts. I don't want to see Neal struggle, but he does at the 1, there's just no doubt. Hopefully Mills will get the position assigned routinely, without too much disaster to unfold to make the move obvious to Pop. Mills has speed, confidence, and ball handling ability and is not the defensive liability Neal is. Neal is $$ as a spot up shooter, so I really hope that is how he is utilized. Nando and CoJo might sniff it, but only if Neal gets traded or if there are injuries will they see real PT. Who knows, Joseph might have an opportunity and then stick. I think Nando will be a TO machine, but I'm excited to see what he can bring.

[lurker23]

1. Who would you elect as the Spurs backup point guard?


Patty Mills. He's an excellent offensive player, and a hard worker on defense. He's a better passer and a better defender than Neal. I think Joseph is the long term (next year?) solution, but he doesn't seem ready at this time.



2. Who do you think Pop will go with to start the season?


Gary Neal, with sprinkles of Patty Mills. I don't think he'll lock in and give 100% of backup PG minutes to any individual player, but Neal is the leader in the clubhouse, and will likely get 80% of the minutes. Pop will mostly stick with the known quantity until he's comfortable with someone else.



3. Who do you think will be the backup point guard come playoff time?

70% Patty Mills
15% Gary Neal
15% Cory Joseph

I think Patty will win the job through the year and/or Gary Neal will be traded. Barring trade, I think Neal's chance is closer to 30-40%. Cory Joseph will have a chance to exceed expectations, perhaps after filling in due to an injury.

As far as Nando goes, I think his true role on this team will be as a 2-guard. While he might get some emergency/spot PG minutes, having both Patty and Cory on the roster will allow Nando to be a (very?) poor man's Manu replacement over the next few years.

[MR-Clutch]

Joseph. I liked what I saw in the summer league. Hes the only we can say is defintely a PG. I love upside and he seemed to have a lot of it. He also should have average more than 5.2 assists in SL. His teamates just missed shots. I would say mills after joseph.

[crc21209]

Eh...I'm not really a Cory Joseph fan. He's still too young and raw to determine what he's going to be. And from what I've seen from him, his J isnt very good. I'll take Mills or Neal....

[flipspursfan]

Think about how black folks were treated in the South circa 1965 and you have an idea what it is like in Australia today for aborigines.

That's very sad. I hope the situation in Australia for aborigines are resolved soon.

[therealtruth]

I think defense, ball handling, and getting people involved are more important for our backup point guard than shooting. Shooting is nice but Neal's defense killed us against the Thunder and he was going against a guy I though he could match up with in Derek Fisher.

[benfti]

That's very sad. I hope the situation in Australia for aborigines are resolved soon.

Its not quite that bad, but it was not that long ago.

[-21-]

1. Mills
2. Neal
3. Mills

With more development, CJ can take the spot next year.

[99 Problems]

Millsy given minutes has seized his chances time and time again, everywhere he's been in his short 23 years. I expect here will be the same as a breakout will bring with it a multi year (2-3) guaranteed contract with some reasonable dollars from somewhere. If it becomes reality lets hope it's Spurs.

[AussieFanKurt]

Patty first!

[Spurstalkin]

Mills is my man! One other thing worth mentioning about a point guard is the ability to shoot the 3 which patty does fairly well.

[Gagnrath]

Neal and Mills will share PG duties, based mainly on what is needed defensively. If the other team has a non-scoring or slow PG, or a smaller sg, you will see Neal, If the other team has a fast, or attacking pg you will see Mills. De Cola is there mainly to be a 2 that handles the ball sometimes and have spot pg minutes. Joseph is pg of the future but this year will be mainly with the Toros, though will be brought up from time to time for seasoning or if there is an injury.

[TDMVPDPOY]

mills and neal are exactly the same type of player....their offense is their defense....

[therealtruth]

Neal and Mills will share PG duties, based mainly on what is needed defensively. If the other team has a non-scoring or slow PG, or a smaller sg, you will see Neal, If the other team has a fast, or attacking pg you will see Mills. De Cola is there mainly to be a 2 that handles the ball sometimes and have spot pg minutes. Joseph is pg of the future but this year will be mainly with the Toros, though will be brought up from time to time for seasoning or if there is an injury.

Most teams have fast PG's. That why Neal struggles so much defensively. Neal couldn't even match up with Derek Fisher who's one of the slowest point guards.

[ChuckD]

Manu is essentially the back PG/playmaker for the second unit. It's exhausting to have to do that AND bring the ball up the court against pressure. All we need is someone who can bring the ball up the court under pressure, and space the floor. That's Patty.

[analyzed]

Here is another angle to consider since we're deep at PG, Neal, Mills or De Colo could be attractive trade bait. Loosing one or even two of them won't hurt the Spurs , but what we can get in return for other positions could help us.

So it begs another question to be asked ? Who is more likely to be traided by trade deadline?

[swaggerjackson]

Neal no doubt. CJ and Nando still have potential to develop into key players so you don't want to trade them unless we are getting something proven in a position we need. If Mills proves he can play decent defense and bring the ball up the court, he makes Neal expendable. Neal is still a good player but his contract is low so whoever trades for him gets a cheap half year rental and can decide to keep him or let him go at the end of the season. I like Neal but his lack of defensive abilities makes him expendable if one of the other three guys mentioned steps up

[Bruno]

timvp, you should read that great anlysis on the backup PG spot:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/point-of-interest-the-battle-for-back-up-point-guard/

These articles are too great:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/center-of-attention-three-reasons-why-dejuan-blair-can-be-the-starting-center-for-the-san-antonio-spurs/
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/potential-extention-for-manu-ginobili/

[DPG21920]

timvp, you should read that great anlysis on the backup PG spot:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/point-of-interest-the-battle-for-back-up-point-guard/

These articles are too great:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/center-of-attention-three-reasons-why-dejuan-blair-can-be-the-starting-center-for-the-san-antonio-spurs/
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/potential-extention-for-manu-ginobili/

Wow.

[justinandimcool]

:lol :lol :lol seriously?

[DPG21920]

It's likely that is Timvp writing for another site.

[99 Problems]

Interesting couple of angles put previously. Neal, Millsy at this very moment would both attract some attention. Although unproven Joseph might even because of that summer league display. De Colo too early to call what the ceiling is so I think he's not going anywhere yet. Then one needs to consider who needs backup PGs. I think the Lakers do.

[lurker23]

It's likely that is Timvp writing for another site.

Under an assumed name, with less detail than he puts into his write-ups here, while bothering to change the structure of sentences? Seems unlikely to me.

[ElNono]

timvp, you should read that great anlysis on the backup PG spot:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/point-of-interest-the-battle-for-back-up-point-guard/

These articles are too great:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/center-of-attention-three-reasons-why-dejuan-blair-can-be-the-starting-center-for-the-san-antonio-spurs/
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/potential-extention-for-manu-ginobili/

shit, even stole the Diario Ole nugget...

[ElNono]

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/potential-extention-for-manu-ginobili/

"Julian Mozo is the sports journalist in charge of NBA coverage for Diario Ole, one of the most important sports publications in Argentina."


Julian Mozo is the sport journalist in charge of NBA coverage for Diario Ole, one of the most important sports publications in Argentina.

Damn, he could've edited it a bit... :lol

[Bruno]

Yeah, these articles are 100% ripoff of timvp posts. There are few sentences that comes from my posts too.

[siraulo23]

:lol smh

[ace3g]

Spurs’ shot doctor earns Joseph’s attention (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/10/07/shot-doctor-earns-joseph%e2%80%99s-attention/)

“Man, I worked on my shot a lot this summer, countless hours,” Joseph said after scoring 10 points in the Spurs’ 106-77 victory Saturday night. “Chip and I spent a whole lot of time together, and I can’t tell you how much he helped my shot. Wherever I went, Chip found me or sent somebody to work with me. Here in San Antonio, in Austin, in Las Vegas. It didn’t matter, he was there, one way or the other.”
Joseph said Engelland’s message was simple: Find a way to get properly balanced before you attempt your shot and repeat that several thousand times.



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/10/07/shot-doctor-earns-joseph%E2%80%99s-attention/

[Trill Clinton]

I prefer mills with joseph giving him a push for the backup spot.

don't really care for gary neal anymore. his defense is that bad, just a shorter, darker version of matt bonner.

besides kawhi, i'm really looking forward to watching joseph this year.

[DPG21920]

Under an assumed name, with less detail than he puts into his write-ups here, while bothering to change the structure of sentences? Seems unlikely to me.

Should have used the blue font :lol

[Ice009]

Spurs’ shot doctor earns Joseph’s attention (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/10/07/shot-doctor-earns-joseph%e2%80%99s-attention/)

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/10/07/shot-doctor-earns-joseph%E2%80%99s-attention/

Thanks for posting this Ace3g. I just read this and thought about posting it myself, but I should have known you've probably already posted it ;).


I prefer mills with joseph giving him a push for the backup spot.

don't really care for gary neal anymore. his defense is that bad, just a shorter, darker version of matt bonner.

besides kawhi, i'm really looking forward to watching joseph this year.

The thing is, I like defense a lot more than offense. Cory Joseph has the potential to be a lot better than those other two players defensively. I am really surprised by his performance so far and turn around this summer going back to the Summer League games. Hopefully he keeps it up as he is starting to look really good. If he doesn't play hunched over, plays tough defense and runs the point well, I'd be all for him getting a chance to get minutes out there this season.

We'll have to see how Mills and Neal do out there defensively, I think that is the key for them and also for the team this season. If they are both horrible and get torched out there on D consistently, then I would be willing to give Joseph a shot.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Mills - better handles than Neal, better passer, similar shooter, better defender

Neal is not a PG, we all bitched about that all last season.
DeColo needs to acclimate to the NBA.
Joseph could do with more seasoning.

[timvp]

timvp, you should read that great anlysis on the backup PG spot:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/point-of-interest-the-battle-for-back-up-point-guard/

These articles are too great:
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/center-of-attention-three-reasons-why-dejuan-blair-can-be-the-starting-center-for-the-san-antonio-spurs/
http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2012/10/07/potential-extention-for-manu-ginobili/

:lol Here we go again . . .

[mountainballer]

Mills is still very young (turned 24 this summer), so its not impossible that he can refine some of his PG skills. (maybe already has during the off season)
if he did slightly better in P&R last season, we wouldn't discuss this issue at all, b/c Mills would be the undisputed choice.

[lurker23]

Should have used the blue font :lol

:lol Figured that might be a blue font post, but sometimes it's hard to tell.

[Axegrinder]

Patty should be the new #2

[Spurs Brazil]

It looks Neal is the backup to start the season:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/121009_pop

[elemento]

I don't even know why you guys act surprised with Neal starting the season as the backup PG. Knowing Pop for years, it was almost a lock.

And if Manu comes off the bench, I am ok with Neal as the backup PG as he won't bring the ball anyway. Neal's defense is bad, but Mills is not great either. Both are great shooters and to me Neal has a better shot selection. Mills looks like a chucker out of control sometimes.

[Seventyniner]

One problem with the Spurs' depth chart is redundancy. Neal and Mills have very similar roles on offense and defense, so I don't see the point in keeping both. Neal is obviously the easier one to trade (even if the Spurs wanted to trade Mills, they'd have to wait until December IIRC). Also, while I haven't seen him play, De Colo seems like a Ginobili extra lite. Same type of build and game, at least.

The problem with the bench unit is that it is short on good defenders. Manu is good, Jax is good, and Splitter is decent, but Bonner isn't (even though Synergy said his post defense was great last year, you have to finish a stop with a rebound) and CJ is the only good defensive backup PG on the team.

CJ is the best fit skill-wise as the backup PG if he can become a solid defender. Then again, with all the trashing of Neal's defense, how many contending teams have a backup PG that can absolutely go off? The Clippers (Bledsoe) are the only ones that come to mind, and maybe the Heat with Norris Cole, though if the Spurs get to the Finals something will have gone right with the lineup.

I still wonder why the Spurs brought De Colo over this year. Waiting one more year seemed to be optimal, but maybe De Colo was threatening to sign a 2 or 3-year contract with a big buyout.

[racm]

There's still trades on the table, really. Once Pop figures out the optimal minutes in the backcourt Neal could be sent in a trade to a team that needs a shooter badly.

[Mel_13]

Patty Mills will miss the next two preseason games with a sprained right ankle.

https://twitter.com/spurs

[therealtruth]

One problem with the Spurs' depth chart is redundancy. Neal and Mills have very similar roles on offense and defense, so I don't see the point in keeping both. Neal is obviously the easier one to trade (even if the Spurs wanted to trade Mills, they'd have to wait until December IIRC). Also, while I haven't seen him play, De Colo seems like a Ginobili extra lite. Same type of build and game, at least.

The problem with the bench unit is that it is short on good defenders. Manu is good, Jax is good, and Splitter is decent, but Bonner isn't (even though Synergy said his post defense was great last year, you have to finish a stop with a rebound) and CJ is the only good defensive backup PG on the team.

CJ is the best fit skill-wise as the backup PG if he can become a solid defender. Then again, with all the trashing of Neal's defense, how many contending teams have a backup PG that can absolutely go off? The Clippers (Bledsoe) are the only ones that come to mind, and maybe the Heat with Norris Cole, though if the Spurs get to the Finals something will have gone right with the lineup.

I still wonder why the Spurs brought De Colo over this year. Waiting one more year seemed to be optimal, but maybe De Colo was threatening to sign a 2 or 3-year contract with a big buyout.

The reason Mills is better defensively is he is fast enough to keep up. The most important part of defense is staying in front of your man, something Neal struggles to do.

[Gagnrath]

Its a big part of why even though Neal is short for a SG his defense on SGs is better since they are typically larger and slower. He's also fairly strong for his size and with a less sure ball-handler being bodied up by a defender can make them less likely to try and turn on you.

[squiz]

It looks Neal is the backup to start the season:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/video/121009_pop

is that blair hitting some 10-15ft jumpers in the background? :tu

[xmas1997]

De Colo

[lefty]

TP would be a good backup PG

[colargol]

TP would be a good backup PG

too selfish

[timvp]

Bump.





It's difficult to tell where the competition stands. Could Neal have fallen out of the backup point guard race? Today Manu was back, Green was active yet the backup point guards were Joseph and De Colo. Neal has been exclusively playing shooting guard the last three preseason games. And considering that Neal can use all the extra work possible at point guard, it makes sense to play him at point guard as much as possible in the preseason so he can get those reps.

Mills' injury throws a wrench into the process so I can't get a good read at what Pop is thinking. But judging just from his actions, it really is starting to seem like De Colo is closing in on that backup point guard job. Then again, Joseph has played well, Neal is the incumbent and Mills was probably who the coaching staff thought would eventually win that job.

So it's confusing, to say the least.

[99 Problems]

Very tough my friend. I'm almost certain that Pop is still uncertain.

[CGD]

Timely bump. I still vote for Gary at the backup. I think most will agree that Mills and CJ are on the outside looking in at this point. I'm not sure even a healthy Patty would bump either Neal or De Colo in the PG pecking order, and CJ still requires more polishing in my opinion. On paper, one would think that a Neal/De Colo back court would be able to play their respective natural positions on offense, while defensively De Colo would cover the SG and Neal the PG; but, Neal's defensive deficiencies are well chronicled here and from what I've read from other posters, De Colo still needs to develop that part of his game. Because Neal has the most experience at this point, and his excellent shooting skills are a known quantity, my money is still on Neal starting the season at the back up.

Danny Green, in my opinion, is the player that stands to lose the most by an ahead of schedule emergence De Colo. Barring any injuries, Pop could confidently move Manu to the starting line up for good, knowing that the offense would flow with De Colo helping to orchestrate the second unit, and SJax and Neal providing much of the fire power. Nando could also run the pick and roll action effectively with either Blair or Splitter. Danny's contract is very reasonable and therefore tradable, so I think he stands to lose the most of anyone if he cant shake of the post-playoff hangover.

[therealtruth]

Timely bump. I still vote for Gary at the backup. I think most will agree that Mills and CJ are on the outside looking in at this point. I'm not sure even a healthy Patty would bump either Neal or De Colo in the PG pecking order, and CJ still requires more polishing in my opinion. On paper, one would think that a Neal/De Colo back court would be able to play their respective natural positions on offense, while defensively De Colo would cover the SG and Neal the PG; but, Neal's defensive deficiencies are well chronicled here and from what I've read from other posters, De Colo still needs to develop that part of his game. Because Neal has the most experience at this point, and his excellent shooting skills are a known quantity, my money is still on Neal starting the season at the back up.

Danny Green, in my opinion, is the player that stands to lose the most by an ahead of schedule emergence De Colo. Barring any injuries, Pop could confidently move Manu to the starting line up for good, knowing that the offense would flow with De Colo helping to orchestrate the second unit, and SJax and Neal providing much of the fire power. Nando could also run the pick and roll action effectively with either Blair or Splitter. Danny's contract is very reasonable and therefore tradable, so I think he stands to lose the most of anyone if he cant shake of the post-playoff hangover.

Danny Green's major value is on defense. At this point his defense is probably better than Manu and he can guard 1-3. You could pair him up with De Colo on the second unit and have him take the PG if he's too quick for Nando. I am not in favor of Neal playing until he improves his defense.

[Timmy4ever]

I think Nando. His better playmaker than others.

[Malik Hairston]

Joseph is the most versatile of the bunch, but he's soft IMO..

He can't consistently play with aggression, he stalls too much, waiting for offensive sets to develop, tbh..

[Bruno]

Yeah, after 2 weeks of training camp, the backup PG spot is far from being settled. Mills injury has of course slowed the picking process but Ginobili injury has slowed it too. Being paired with Ginobili changes quite a lot of things for the backup PG. Mills or Joseph should do fine with Ginobili but I don't really know if a Minimanu/Manu backcourt can work well.

[Raven]

it should be explained what the backup pg's job at the spurs is first tbh.. imho it only has to take the ball the other side of the court safely and give the ball to manu since he's the playmaker whenever he's on the floor.. so basically it should have reliable safe ball handling and be quick enough to defend the other pg in the league, that's why neither decolo or neal should be an option at pg. My choice is Mills for this year and a battle with Joseph for next season (if possible).

[therealtruth]

The Spurs have alot of options. They can start TP, Manu, KL, TD, and TS. Tim and Tiago improve the defense and Manu makes the offense work with TD and TS. That allows them to bring Nando, DG, Jax, Diaw, and Curry/Blair off the bench. Nando takes on the Manu role. DG takes the PG on defense if necessary. That puts maximum firepower and strong defense in the starting lineup and still allows for a dynamic bench.

[mudyez]

1. Patty Mills
2. Patty Mills
3. Patty Mills

...no Patty homerism...I like all of the options, but really feel it will turn out this way.

If Mills plays, Pop will have to sub him in when Manu is on the court...Which you also could call 1. Manu, 2. Manu, 3. Manu

[BackHome]

Forget who is backup Pg who is our back up PF?

[Boomersgold]

Patty and Neal have shown the most out of all the players competing for the Backup Point Guard spot!

[Raven]

Forget who is backup Pg who is our back up PF?

tp - green - leonard - diaw - duncan (and not the other way but ok it's debatable)
mills - manu - jax - blair - splitter
/ - neal - / - bonner - /
/ - decolo -/ -/ - /

that's the depth chart, assuming blair becomes full time pf considering that's the position he should play..

[ace3g]

at this point in the season, anyone have a change of mind?

[Boomersgold]

Neal's now out of the equation. 0 ball-handling abilities + 0 speed = turnover machine against quicker guards.

I'd say De Colo should (Neal will still end up with the job) be the backup pg with Patty as the third string PG and SG. Although when Patty's on, Ginobili plays the play maker, which works just as well.

[ace3g]

Neal's now out of the equation. 0 ball-handling abilities + 0 speed = turnover machine against quicker guards.

I'd say De Colo should (Neal will still end up with the job) be the backup pg with Patty as the third string PG and SG. Although when Patty's on, Ginobili plays the play maker, which works just as well.

From the standpoint of defense, if Spurs face OKC, Neal can never guard KMart

[TheSkeptic]

Neal's now out of the equation. 0 ball-handling abilities + 0 speed = turnover machine against quicker guards.

I'd say De Colo should (Neal will still end up with the job) be the backup pg with Patty as the third string PG and SG. Although when Patty's on, Ginobili plays the play maker, which works just as well.

Patty is also not an option imo. No feel for when to pass, shoots too much, undersized, and doesn't play defense. Unless he's on fire and he can be hidden on D, there's just no reason to play him. Out of all the back-up guards on the second unit, De Colo's the only one who has looked like a viable option long-term. He's still learning though and we obviously don't know how well he'll play in the post-season.

[Mugen]

From the standpoint of defense, if Spurs face OKC, Neal can never guard KMart

Neal would be guarding Maynor with Manu guarding KMart most likely.

I really really want Nando to win the backup role but you just can't drop a player like Neal from the rotation. Outside of the Big 3, he's the only guy that can literally carry the team offensively by himself. When the defense tightens up and the Spurs hit those dry spells in the playoffs, that trait is absolutely invaluable.

[playblair]

patty mills is not a pg ......


The main difference in Mills’ numbers this season are when he is the pick and roll ball handler. His turnover rate in these situations through 21 games is terrible (57.1% of these plays are turnovers) compared with last season where he was much more respectable (21.1%). His pick and roll play has gone from a strength last season, where he used this type of play more than any other, to a clear weakness this season. His pick and roll play has not been as frequent this season though (down to 17.6% of his total offensive possessions from 33.6%) as the Spurs look to capitalise more on his spot up shooting (up to 33.1% from 16.9%), but his turnovers have been his Achilles heal in getting more consistent playing time.

http://crunchtimeshots.com/2012/12/17/patty-mills-through-21-games/

[TimDunkem]

Neal would be guarding Maynor with Manu guarding KMart most likely.


I expect some big games from Maynor in the future. :lol

[Boomersgold]

patty mills is not a pg ......



http://crunchtimeshots.com/2012/12/17/patty-mills-through-21-games/

He's not a traditional pg. That's correct. When Pop plays Patty as the pg, Mills doesn't play like the conventional point guard. He'll quickly race up the court and give it to Manu, who then acts as the play maker for their half court offense. With Manu playing the passer, this allows Mills to focus on scoring, and that's what he does well.

Check timvp's "Player Pair Analysis" thread. When Mills is on the court with Ginobili, the Spurs have a +21.77 point differential per 100 possessions.
timvp: "If Neal isn’t the answer at backup point guard due to not being compatible with Ginobili, that opens the door for Patrick Mills and Nando De Colo. Looking at these numbers, Mills looks like the anti-Neal because he does REALLY well next to Ginobili."

[timvp]

It's going to be Neal's job to lose once (if?) everyone gets healthy. But the best case scenario is that De Colo keeps pushing and it gets to the point where he simply can't be ignored and leapfrogs Neal.

[timtonymanu]

Nando > CoJo > Neal > Mills

Joseph is probably the best option of the four, but I would put Nando ahead of him right now because Joseph needs a little more seasoning. Neal needs to be only playing shooting guard. I've been quite underwhelmed with Patty's play so far and he looks more like an SG.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Nando already seems way more polished than Cojo in my opinion.

[playblair]

cojo scores 30 ..... when will he get his shot at being the back up pg ......


Cory scored 30 points for his first D-league game of this new stint:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121218/TEXAUS/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp2021200069

[SenorSpur]

The one advantage of the Spurs injury situation, if there is one, is that Pop need Gary Neal to be a shooting guard. That's fine with me. I don't ever want to see him playing PG again. His atrocious defense, inability to run pick and roll and lazy passes are more than I can stomach. I hope this experiment is all but over.

That said, Mills has gotten a shot and probably will continue to get a look at the position. However as others have already said, he's just not a natural PG.

For now, it looks like Pop is gaining confidence in De Colo and doesn't mind calling his number at a moments notice. In return, the young Frenchman is doing his share to earn the coach's trust. Of course, we"ve all raved about his out-of-this-world passing and while his jumper is shaky, he's has shown some slight signs of improvement. It's clear he looks like the best candidate for the job, for now.

Now that CJ has been reassigned to the Toros, I think the message is clear that the coaching staff doesn't think he's quite ready yet. Based on his improvment fron Year 1 to Year 2, I'd say it's a good bet that he'll have a chance to challenge De Colo and Mills as the long-term incumbent.

[Paranoid Pop]

The one advantage of the Spurs injury situation, if there is one, is that Pop need Gary Neal to be a shooting guard. That's fine with me. I don't ever want to see him playing PG again. His atrocious defense, inability to run pick and roll and lazy passes are more than I can stomach. I hope this experiment is all but over.

That said, Mills has gotten a shot and probably will continue to get a look at the position. However as others have already said, he's just not a natural PG.

For now, it looks like Pop is gaining confidence in De Colo and doesn't mind calling his number at a moments notice. In return, the young Frenchman is doing his share to earn the coach's trust. Of course, we"ve all raved about his out-of-this-world passing and while his jumper is shaky, he's has shown some slight signs of improvement. It's clear he looks like the best candidate for the job, for now.

Now that CJ has been reassigned to the Toros, I think the message is clear that the coaching staff doesn't think he's quite ready yet. Based on his improvment fron Year 1 to Year 2, I'd say it's a good bet that he'll have a chance to challenge De Colo and Mills as the long-term incumbent.

Ultimately I wouldn't mind a three guards rotation of TP-Manu-De Colo for the playoffs with Neal being the optional 4th man. TP will play 37 minutes, Manu and De Colo can play 25 both leaving 10 minutes for Neal to kickstart an offensive slump... Green can be traded for a big.

[ace3g]

Getting closer to the trade deadline now, should Pop just decide on a back up PG now and develop his role for the playoffs or trade for one?

[BlackSilver]

I think this is where Pop pulls the championship move from 2007 (?)...sits the team down and says, look, this is going to be the team through the end of the year with no changes.

[ace3g]

I always wanted Nando to get the job because:

1. Good ball handling

2. Size adds dimension to back up point guard spot, can use it to back down defender.

3. Can help in rebounding department with his height, especially on those 50/50 plays that make a big difference in a playoff game. He has already shown signs of going after contested rebounds.

4. Hindsight but he is getting more and more accustomed to reading passing lanes for steals.

--

Adjusting to the speed of the game is the one aspect he still needs improvement, especially on defense.

[EVAY]

Nando. period.

Just give him a little more time to get comfortable with the NBA. He will be the back-up at the start of the playoffs, imo, but may give way to Neal as needed for scoring. By next season, I expect his scoring (and therefore his willingness to do it) to be where they need to be.

He is by far a better ball handler, passer, defender and play creator than either Neal or Mills, and he has a significant size over everybody but Neal.

[Dex]

Adjusting to the speed of the game is the one aspect he still needs improvement, especially on defense.

I still like De Colo's effort and toughness on defense. He's got good size, and uses his strength well. He's also got a high basketball IQ. To me, it seems most of the defensive deficiencies are mental, caused by lack of experience and playing time. Those could be resolved over time.

Mills is fast and tenacious, but this leads to him being out of position more often than not. He's also too undersized against most opposing point guards, and God help us if he gets switched onto another position.

Neal is just...slow. He slow on rotations, he's slow getting around screens, he's slow keeping people in front of him. I'll give Neal credit in the fact that he is good about getting back in transition; unfortunately, he has no idea what to do when he gets there, which usually results in a foul and possible And-1.

[Hoops Czar]

Fot anyone who says Patty Mills is not a traditional Pg, Russell Westbrook says hi. And let me shoot down any goofball that thinks this is a comparison between the two. I'm simply comparing the style of play. Patty is a shoot first pg and that's probably something Pop isn't looing for. At the same time, De Colo is not the answer. The Spurs can't go into the playoffs with a backup point guard who isn't a threat to score. Most defenders will sag off him and dare him to shoot the jump shot all day long. And to this point, Nando hasn't shown the ability to hit an open jumpshot, No, Neal will play minimal back up pg, mostly in the second quarter of games and Manu will basically take over the backup pg role in the second half. If De Colo sees the court in the playoffs, it will be in the closing minutes with the Spurs either winning or losing big.

[EVAY]

Fot anyone who says Patty Mills is not a traditional Pg, Russell Westbrook says hi. And let me shoot down any goofball that thinks this is a comparison between the two. I'm simply comparing the style of play. Patty is a shoot first pg and that's probably something Pop isn't looing for. At the same time, De Colo is not the answer. The Spurs can't go into the playoffs with a backup point guard who isn't a threat to score. Most defenders will sag off him and dare him to shoot the jump shot all day long. And to this point, Nando hasn't shown the ability to hit an open jumpshot, No, Neal will play minimal back up pg, mostly in the second quarter of games and Manu will basically take over the backup pg role in the second half. If De Colo sees the court in the playoffs, it will be in the closing minutes with the Spurs either winning or losing big.

I agree with your assessment that THIS YEAR Nando is not going to see too much time in playoffs, and for the very reason you stated. Assuming that Manu is able to play, he will be the playmaker for the second squad.

I read this thread as who the backup point will eventually be, and I believe that will be Nando for so many of the reasons given here. I expect that his shooting will improve over the summer much as Splitter's has. It is absolutely true that we need him to shoot well, eventually. But we don't need him to shoot as well as Tony or Neal. We need him, mostly, to run the offensive set.

[spurraider21]

Nando is the only one that plays like a true point guard. I still think the ideal reserve backcourt is Neal-Manu... but in cases where TP and Manu are on the bench, Nando should be out there.

[therealtruth]

Nando is tailor made for the playoffs. A role player that is harder to gameplan against.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

nando is backup point in the final stretch and playoffs. bottom line. his passing ability is amazing. hes a stud. has good pg instincts, and defensive presence. doesn't need to shoot. defenders can't find his passing lanes. once they start trying to figure them out, that's when he's gonna deliver some devastatingly nasty net burners. maybe even clutch ones. worries be gone. if he's still streaky, that's just a slump. put in neal and light a fire under him.

i would rather see mills playing with decolo than neal. neal is an incredible shooter. bonner but better. but neal is a defensive liability. somebody said it best, he's too slow. neal and bonner need to stay on the bench unless the team is in a shooting slump.

mills and baynes should never be on the court without each other. i don't understand why pop isn't milking that aussie conncection. even if that means playing manu at 3. heck, manu is so injury prone. pop outta be splitting minutes between jackson and manu at 3 anyway. pop loves his neal and bonner 3s too much.

[urunobili]

Mills would be my preference but I ain't no basketball expert. For some reason I find Nando slow and annoying