Bottom Line: Can you trust a guy who's never had a beer in his life?

[scott]

That's what it boils down to for me. Do I trust a guy who home-brews, or a guy who has never had a beer in his entire life?

I'm outta here for a few weeks. See ya kiddos!

[DarrinS]

What about a guy who's never had a job in his life?

[TeyshaBlue]

Scott's running for office!!!111!11

[boutons_deux]

How about the "religious, ethical" guy who brags he's never smoked a cigarette in his life, but his company helped US cigarette companies penetrate and supply 25%+ of cigarettes to the Russian market?

"An explosive report sheds new light on Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney’s time at Bain & Company, describing how the firm made millions on big tobacco by helping Philip Morris increase its revenues in the United States, and aiding two other tobacco titans to dominate the Russian market. According to the Huffington Post, "Romney’s consultants helped foreign firms and aspiring oligarchs decide how to corral Russia’s riches — including writing a official manual that outlined how best to navigate the process. At the same time, Bain leveraged its contacts with senior Russian officials to arrange sweetheart deals for its tobacco clients."

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/10/bain_capital_big_tobacco_romneys_firm

[clambake]

likely his dad would have cut him off.

[jack sommerset]

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding"

God bless

[clambake]

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding"

God bless

which lord?

[4down]

can you trust a guy who whose wife is trying to shove only organic on America's plates? Romney abstains from something himself but Mrs. O is trying to force us to eat tofu and Brussels sprouts

[boutons_deux]

can you trust a guy who whose wife is trying to shove only organic on America's plates? Romney abstains from something himself but Mrs. O is trying to force us to eat tofu and Brussels sprouts

link?

BigFood and BigAg plus synthetic shit from BigChem are the main reasons the simpleton cow-like Americans are diseased.

[symple19]

pretty sure Gary Johnson has had one or two in his day

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact Mitt believes god is a 6'2" man who lives on planet Kolob bothers me a lot more than him never having a beer.

[DMC]

As long as our leader has nice hair and they have a dog, we will remain the leaders of the free world.

[Juggity]

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding"

God bless

The founding fathers disagree with your sentiment as a means of effective governance.

[boutons_deux]

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding"

God bless

greasing of the Road to Hell.

understanding = rational investigation, science.

"Lord" equals all the made-up, self-serving bullshit from money-grubbing, self-aggrandizing, politicized pastors, priests, reverends, etc. who claim, you have to take them on "faith", that they know the Mind of God, so you better keep sending the lots of money.

[mavs>spurs]

i trust a guy who pays a higher tax rate over the past 20 years (20% on average) than boutons who pays much less and is in the 15% bracket right now, reserved for those making less than 35k per year.

[boutons_deux]

i trust a guy who pays a higher tax rate over the past 20 years (20% on average) than boutons who pays much less and is in the 15% bracket right now, reserved for those making less than 35k per year.

you right-winger are talented in the fantasy area, and wrong

[mavs>spurs]

romney has paid millions and millions in taxes...more than his fair share. i trust this guy more than i trust boutons:


NORTHBOROUGH (FOX 25 / MyFoxBoston.com) One Northborough family was shocked to hear their names used during the vice presidential debate on Thursday.Paul Ryan mentioned the Nixon family, who were in a car crash in the early 90s. Two of the Nixon children, Rob and Reed, were paralyzed. Mitt Romney and his family learned of the tragedy and asked if they could come over for Christmas. Romney reportedly brought gifts.
FOX 25's Tyisha Fernandes sat down with the Nixon family on Friday in the same Northborough home that Mitt Romney and his family visited 17 years ago.
"It was amazing, they stayed for a couple hours, setting it up, and spent time," says Reed Nixon.
"There were no cameras, no reporters," says Mark Nixon, patriarch of the Nixon family. "He only picture we took was a picture of our families together."
The Nixon family needed some joy on that Christmas Eve in 1995. It was less than a year after that horrible accident. The family was leaving a church meeting when they crashed. It was the same Mormon church the Romney family belongs to, but a different branch.
When the Romneys traveled more than an hour to spend a precious holiday with strangers at the time, the Nixons felt some happiness after feeling so broken.
"Think about it, they could've done it anytime of year, but they did it on Christmas Eve," says Mark.
The Republican vice presidential candidate tells the rest of the story.
"Later on, he said 'I know you're struggling Mark, don't worry about their college, I'll pay for it,'" said Ryan.
Mark says Ann and Mitt Romney basically gave them a blank check. They didn't end up needing the check, because Reed got a finance degree from Bentley University where his father works. Rob went to Brigham Young on a scholarship.
Regardless, the Nixons see it as an incredible gesture that they will never forget.
The Nixon family wants to make it clear that Romney stayed in touch with them long after that Christmas visit. Romney attended several fundraisers for the paralyzed boys. He also sent cards and gifts when they graduated from college.


Read more: http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/19809561/2012/10/12/northborough-family-mentioned-in-vp-debate-talks-to-fox-25#ixzz29CaqE0w8

[boutons_deux]

romney has paid millions and millions in taxes...more than his fair share. i trust this guy more than i trust boutons:

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Gecko is an extemely aggressive tax avoider, and I say a felony tax evader. your fantasy about his tax amount of course hides his tax rate.

My guess, a guess since Gecko thinks he's entitled to secrecy, is that he won't release 2009 tax return because he and/or his wife took advantage of the IRS amnesty for tax evaders exposed in Switzerland.

[hitmanyr2k]

The bottom line is I only have trust in myself and I know no matter who's president I'm going to be just fine. The people in this country who have great stake in this election are women, military members, workers in manufacturing, workers in the public sector, and people approaching the senior citizen age. They're the ones who are getting fucked when it's all said and done.

[mavs>spurs]

Gecko is an extemely aggressive tax avoider, and I say a felony tax evader. your fantasy about his tax amount of course hides his tax rate.

My guess, a guess since Gecko thinks he's entitled to secrecy, is that he won't release 2009 tax return because he and/or his wife took advantage of the IRS amnesty for tax evaders exposed in Switzerland.

i'm sure he made up for it and paid extra when he donated 4 mil to charity this year tbh

[hitmanyr2k]

i'm sure he made up for it and paid extra when he donated 4 mil to charity this year tbh

It also makes for a great tax deduction.

[mavs>spurs]

you understand how tax deductions work right? if it was about keeping most most net pay after taxes you'd just keep the money. it's giving away 4 million to reduce your tax burden by less than 1 million, not a very solid investment tbh.

[hitmanyr2k]

you understand how tax deductions work right? if it was about keeping most most net pay after taxes you'd just keep the money. it's giving away 4 million to reduce your tax burden by less than 1 million, not a very solid investment tbh.

It's not my fault his Mormon faith requires giving to charity. I'm just saying he still gets a tax deduction for giving that money.

[mavs>spurs]

yeah but he's getting a 650k tax break while giving up 4 mil, it's not like it's some scheme to not give anything back and keep it all. mitt gives up plenty of money to all sorts of causes, like helping out that family at his church and offering to pay his kids college. some people are just really bitter/jealous of anyone with success and need to read this article:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/rich-worried-and-buying-ad-time/?iref=allsearch



2 days agoRich, worried and buying ad time (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/rich-worried-and-buying-ad-time/)http://cnnpoliticalticker.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/killough-mugshot-4.jpg?w=27
Posted by
CNN's Ashley Killough (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnns-ashley-killough/)(CNN) - He's not running for office. He's not part of a super PAC. He's not lobbying for or against any ballot measures.
But billionaire Thomas Peterffy is spending millions on television ads this election season with one cautionary message: Avoid socialism.

– Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker (http://twitter.com/politicalticker)
– Check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator (http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/ecalculator) and game out your own strategy for November.
"I grew up in a socialist country and I have seen what that does to people. There is no hope, no freedom, no pride in achievement," he says with a soft Hungarian accent in the ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnX7TNFIELg). "The nation became poorer and poorer, and that's what I see happening here."
Peterffy told CNN he expects to spend $5-$10 million on the ad buy, depending on its effectiveness. The spot will run on CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, and test markets in Ohio, Wisconsin, and possibly Florida.
The one-minute spot, which began airing Wednesday and will continue through Election Day, has no mention of any specific politician or lawmaker. It's simply a plea for an end to what he sees as growing hostility to personal success - and to vote Republican.
"America's wealth comes from the efforts of people striving for success. Take away their incentive with badmouthing success and you take away the wealth that helps us take care of the needy," he says in the commercial.
Peterffy was born in Budapest in 1944 during the deadly Soviet offensive that ended in the capture of Hungary's capital the following year. From then, the republic remained under communist control until it gained independence in 1989.
The new ad features images of Peterffy as a child in Hungary and the impoverished conditions in his native country.
"As a young boy, I was fantasizing about one day going to America, making a success of myself. The American Dream," he says.
Peterffy left his country and moved to New York in 1965, where-without knowing English–he got a computer programming job on Wall Street. He later purchased his own seat on the American Stock Exchange in 1977 and, fast forward a few years, found himself the creator of Interactive Brokers, one of the first electronic trading firms.
Forbes Magazine now estimates Peterffy, 68, has a net worth of $4.6 billion.
Peterffy is not alone in his fear of a socialist America. Some Republicans have launched vocal accusations against President Barack Obama for pushing what they call socialist policies. In part, they're referring to Obama's tax proposal that would ultimately raise taxes on the wealthiest two percent of the country but maintain tax cuts for households making under $250,000 per year.
Obama and his re-election campaign argue they're not attacking success, rather they have a different viewpoint on how to create success. At the debate last week, Obama repeated his signature line, saying he wants to make sure everyone is "getting a fair share, everybody's doing a fair share, and everybody's playing by the same rules."
Peterffy, however, says such policies lead to a "slippery slope."
"I’ve paid $1.9 billion in taxes in my lifetime, now I am being told that I am not contributing my fair share?" he said in an interview.
"When you trash the leaders of businesses, they stop working hard. They go on vacation," he continued. "I even see that within myself, I used to be proud of building Interactive Brokers. I would look forward to work each day. Now I’m being told I’m not doing my fair share."
According to filings with the Federal Election Commission, the billionaire donated more than $60,000 to the Republican National Committee last year and contributed to Republican candidates including Mitt Romney, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Linda McMahon in Connecticut, and House Speaker John Boehner.
Other billionaires, such David and Charles Koch, as well as George Soros, have played prominent roles this election, spending millions on ads for their respective candidates. But the titans maintain a low-profile, never appearing in the ads themselves.
Asked why Peterffy wanted to personally take out the ad buy–and star in the spot–he said he was concerned that Americans were unaware of the "downside" of a "less stratified society."
"If people want to go that way, I want them to go with eyes wide open, aware of all possible consequences," he added.

[hitmanyr2k]

yeah but he's getting a 650k tax break while giving up 4 mil, it's not like it's some scheme to not give anything back and keep it all. mitt gives up plenty of money to all sorts of causes, like helping out that family at his church and offering to pay his kids college. some people are just really bitter/jealous of anyone with success and need to read this article:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/10/rich-worried-and-buying-ad-time/?iref=allsearch

[/FONT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]

You're acting like that's money Romney needs lol. He makes that money sitting on his ass. It's nothing to him. Celebrities, athletes, etc give to charity and have "feel good" stories but it doesn't mean that's the way they truly are. For every feel good story they probably have just as many where they were selfish and heartless.

[mavs>spurs]

lol whenever romney gives millions to charity, it doesn't matter because he still has more! he should just give it ALL away if he were really a good person! as a matter of fact, all billionaires should work 18 hour days and build their businesses for free!! let's just all be able to go into walmart and grab whatever we want, that'll work right?

[ElNono]

So you're saying Mitt is for wealth redistribution and handouts to the poor? :lol

[mavs>spurs]

i'm saying that mitt isn't this big bad evil greedy richer like the left tries to make him out to be, and that wealth redistribution doesn't work. once you start engaging in total redistribution and socialism, people would rather not work hard and get things for free and the rich scale back their 15 hour work days to 8 without the extra incentive. overall it creates less total wealth and you end up like communist russia which failed if you don't remember.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

What about a guy who's never had a job in his life?

[hitmanyr2k]

lol whenever romney gives millions to charity, it doesn't matter because he still has more! he should just give it ALL away if he were really a good person! as a matter of fact, all billionaires should work 18 hour days and build their businesses for free!! let's just all be able to go into walmart and grab whatever we want, that'll work right?

Who said he should give it all away? :lol You're making a big deal about well-off people giving to charity and posting a story where Mitt helps another Mormon family like it's supposed to mean he's a good person. Michael Jordan has given a shitload of money to charity. Does that mean we should use Jordan's charity giving as THE example that he's a good person? Fuck no :lol

[Viva Las Espuelas]

It's not my fault his Mormon faith requires giving to charity. I'm just saying he still gets a tax deduction for giving that money.

will he go to hell if he doesn't? are there charity enforcing squads in the mormon faith that makes sure the members do? what's their penalty for not donating? links please

[mavs>spurs]

Who said he should give it all away?

You did, when you dismissed and diminished his contributions. How much do you feel he should have to give away to charity and the government in order to get your respect? Because between taxes/charity, he was almost at 50% last year. Do you feel like the rich should give away over 50% of their income? that's socialism and redistribution buddy. it really doesn't work.

[ElNono]

Mitt is greedy rich and unlike boutons, I don't see anything particularly wrong with that. I would however argue that having a 15% capitals gains rate is an incentive to go with the high speed trading and the like instead of actually being an incentive for direct job creation or long term investment. And completely agree that both Barry and Mitt are much of the same in that department.

[hitmanyr2k]

You did, when you dismissed and diminished his contributions. How much do you feel he should have to give away to charity and the government in order to get your respect? Because between taxes/charity, he was almost at 50% last year. Do you feel like the rich should give away over 50% of their income? that's socialism and redistribution buddy. it really doesn't work.

I dismiss any charity given by multi-millionaires because it's not like it's going to do any harm to a rich person giving away money that's a drop in the bucket to them. You're trying to pump up Romney as some do-gooder because he gives away money and has a feel good story where he helps another family apart of his church. You can be that gullible if you want to. Giving away money you could burn doesn't make you a good person. It makes for great PR and image building (sure didn't hurt Romney that Ryan brought it up in the debate :lol ).

[Viva Las Espuelas]

geez. imagine what you'd say if he didn't give to charity. :lmao
i guess you're biased to all chicago teams.......

[mavs>spurs]

I dismiss any charity given by multi-millionaires because it's not like it's going to do any harm to a rich person giving away money that's a drop in the bucket to them. You're trying to pump up Romney as some do-gooder because he gives away money and has a feel good story where he helps another family apart of his church. You can be that gullible if you want to. Giving away money you could burn doesn't make you a good person. It makes for great PR and image building (sure didn't hurt Romney that Ryan brought it up in the debate :lol ).

so to keep it fair let's ask you this then, did you give up 27% of your income last year to charity? just a drop in the bucket to you like mitt's 4 mil was right?

[hitmanyr2k]

i'm saying that mitt isn't this big bad evil greedy richer like the left tries to make him out to be, and that wealth redistribution doesn't work. once you start engaging in total redistribution and socialism, people would rather not work hard and get things for free and the rich scale back their 15 hour work days to 8 without the extra incentive. overall it creates less total wealth and you end up like communist russia which failed if you don't remember.

I'm sick of hearing this garbage as well :lol People are working harder and being more productive than ever in this country and their wages are stagnating and their benefits are getting cut constantly. I'm sick of the big bad socialism argument. This is the typical business model Americans are dealing with today....

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-usw-video-exposes-mitt-romneys-economy-173543531.html

grQTuIYnreg

You can't beat 99 cent wages in China but what the hell, let's give more tax cuts to these assholes and stupidly think things are going to change in this country in regards to jobs getting shipped overseas :lol

[hitmanyr2k]

so to keep it fair let's ask you this then, did you give up 27% of your income last year to charity? just a drop in the bucket to you like mitt's 4 mil was right?

If I had the kind of wealth Romney had and I was making money just sitting on my ass I wouldn't give two shits about 4 million dollars in charity lol. If his charity is going to the Mormon church why should I give a fuck? Got a breakdown of where his charity went to? Who did it benefit?

[boutons_deux]

"Barry and Mitt are much of the same"

false equivalence

Barry wasn't born rich and privileged. Barry hasn't lived his entire live in the financial sector wheeling and dealing in the shadows, and feloniously hiding his income offshore.

One of the reasons Gecko hides so much of his income offshore is that he's hiding it not only from the IRS but also it from Mormon, Inc. His Queen "You People" Ann says she cries when she has to give up so much to Mormon, Inc. :lol

[ElNono]

It doesn't matter "how they grew up", bot... we're here now, and they're both cut from the same cloth...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Romney gives 4mil to "charity" because he believes that's how he gets into Mormon heaven and his own planet after death or whatever he believes. Giving money to your Church because you think getting into heaven is contingent on it isn't as selfless as giving to charity.

Also, my concern regarding taxes more than anything is reducing the national deficit. Mitt Romney giving $4m to the Church and getting a 650k deduction might do great things for less fortunate Mormons, but the only effect it has on the national deficit is a 650k increase. The fact is that America's wealth is so concentrated towards the top that the only way the national deficit is paid off is if taxes on the rich go up. That's not exactly socialist wealth redistribution since that wealth should go towards paying our bills.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

will he go to hell if he doesn't?

According to Mormon belief, yes.

[mavs>spurs]

Romney gives 4mil to "charity" because he believes that's how he gets into Mormon heaven and his own planet after death or whatever he believes. Giving money to your Church because you think getting into heaven is contingent on it isn't as selfless as giving to charity.

Also, my concern regarding taxes more than anything is reducing the national deficit. Mitt Romney giving $4m to the Church and getting a 650k deduction might do great things for less fortunate Mormons, but the only effect it has on the national deficit is a 650k increase. The fact is that America's wealth is so concentrated towards the top that the only way the national deficit is paid off is if taxes on the rich go up. That's not exactly socialist wealth redistribution since that wealth should go towards paying our bills.

if he were that cold and doing it only to get into heaven then he would have just cut a check to the church for whatever % of his income required to get into heaven and not wasted several hours of his time and additional funds to go visit that family, spend time with them, and pay for the kids tuition. that sounds pretty genuine and caring to me, taking the time to actually go visit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

if he were that cold and doing it only to get into heaven then he would have just cut a check to the church for whatever % of his income required to get into heaven and not wasted several hours of his time and additional funds to go visit that family, spend time with them, and pay for the kids tuition. that sounds pretty genuine and caring to me, taking the time to actually go visit.

I'm sure we could find examples of Obama, or Bush, or any other recent president doing that kind of stuff.

And like I implied but didn't outright explain, I don't fault Mitt for not giving more to charity like some dumbasses are doing in this thread, but I don't give him credit for giving to charity either. Charity is a choice and it stops being charity when the giver expect credits and gratitude for it. The net effect of his 4m donation for non-Mormons was 650k more in debt the government will need to pay off another way.

Both sides of this argument are wrong imo. Mitt himself has nothing to do with America's current tax code so the fact he pays a low rate isn't a valid criticism when every tax payer pays the lowest rate they can. Warren Buffet also pays a low rate while criticizing how much of a joke the tax code is for rich people, and it's stupid to expect him to pay a higher rate when he doesn't have to. The criticism I have of Mitt is a tax code he wants that makes it so he pays even less in taxes.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I also have no idea why people still respond or acknowledge Boutons. I put him on ignore awhile ago. I can't even understand half the stuff he posts anymore with all the nicknames/catch phrases he uses.

[boutons_deux]

"the fact he pays a low rate isn't a valid criticism"

It's not that he pays 15% on his "carried interest" loophole and capital.

It's that he refuses to show his tax returns (if they're all all true and legal, what's the problem? obviously it's a HUGE problem for him), and that he has $10Ms hidden offshore, if not $100Ms, hiding it from the IRS and Mormon, Inc.

[MannyIsGod]

Which candidate hs never had a job?

[doobs]

Mitt is greedy rich and unlike boutons, I don't see anything particularly wrong with that. I would however argue that having a 15% capitals gains rate is an incentive to go with the high speed trading and the like instead of actually being an incentive for direct job creation or long term investment. And completely agree that both Barry and Mitt are much of the same in that department.

Beg pardon? Short-term capital gains, i.e., investments held less than a year, are taxed the same as ordinary income.

[TeyshaBlue]

I also have no idea why people still respond or acknowledge Boutons. I put him on ignore awhile ago. I can't even understand half the stuff he posts anymore with all the nicknames/catch phrases he uses.

Good idea, tbh

[mavs>spurs]

Beg pardon? Short-term capital gains, i.e., investments held less than a year, are taxed the same as ordinary income.

no they're not they're taxed at the 15% capital gains rate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who gives a shit if he sticks money up his ass. He is paying a lower tax rate than anyone in 100 years. 'Conservative' my ass. You want to preserve the past? You do that by honoring that from your past that worked. How about fiscal policy from 1946-1979 instead of this 'lets cut taxes, keep spending and act like it'sc ool because we put money elsewhere' bullshit.

Does your lender give a shit whether or not you gave to charity? No. For all the 'conservative' rhetoric about entitlements, i cannot think of another more entitled group. Let's get mad at the white trash with 4 kids so we can deflect from the shady shit were doing. It's disgusting.

[doobs]

no they're not they're taxed at the 15% capital gains rate.

Nope.

[mavs>spurs]

hmm

[doobs]

you think daytraders who make millions of dollars are paying the top tax rate?? :lmao

Hmmm, a silly, irrelevant "point" to deflect from the wrongness of your earlier assertion. Yep, Spurstalk political forum has not changed one bit. Regards.

[mavs>spurs]

why you making up posts scrah i had a brain fart damn. this forum needs less rapidfire attack posting sheeeeiiitttt.

[doobs]

why you making up posts scrah i had a brain fart damn. this forum needs less rapidfire attack posting sheeeeiiitttt.

So you admit you and ElNono are wrong. Progress.

[ElNono]

Beg pardon? Short-term capital gains, i.e., investments held less than a year, are taxed the same as ordinary income.

You're correct on that, but one year and one day and you're at the 15% rate. It's a joke, and IMO, it's not what made Wall Street useful a long time ago. Today's Wall street is a trader's world, not an investment world.

[mavs>spurs]

yeah i had a 30 second fuck up that you happened to catch because you were refreshing the page with a fury lol

[ElNono]

It's just a matter of where is wiser to risk your money if things work out: If you put it on creating a company, hiring people, etc and you do good, you're looking at a 20%-35% hit at the end of the year. Put that money on the market for a year: 15% hit.

It's no wonder that people with money (like Mitt, Buffet, etc) go for the capital gains...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's just a matter of where is wiser to risk your money if things work out: If you put it on creating a company, hiring people, etc and you do good, you're looking at a 20%-35% hit at the end of the year. Put that money on the market for a year: 15% hit.

It's no wonder that people with money (like Mitt, Buffet, etc) go for the capital gains...
While I agree with this completely and the low cap gains rate makes no economic sense, it's also simply that cap gains are a source of a high percentage of income among the wealthy in this country and we cannot afford to keep taxing it at such a low rate with the deficit. It's not about wealth redistribution, it's about paying our bills.

[ploto]

I could not care less how much a candidate gives of his personal money to his personal charity. I care about his public policy.

[Jacob1983]

Mormons believe that you have to work yourself to death to get to Heaven. They believe that salvation is earned by works, not by the grace of God.
Honestly, who cares? Willard is a Mormon and gives money to the Mormon church. Get over it. He is also filthy rich and probably did some bad things for his own personal gain. Get over it.

Stop being sheep and open your eyes and see that Romney and Obama are the same.