What If Trayvon Had Died In A Drone Strike? [Archive]

Wild Cobra

10-18-2012, 10:42 PM

Among the many more important things that aren't covered at all in these debates..

Yes, democrats think they are morally superior, because the will unleash countless cruise missiles and drones. Sure, this saves US lives, but they kill indiscriminately. The Middle East zealots probably flew those planes into our buildings as a counter attack to president Clinton exhausting our cruise missile supply. What will happen after all this indiscriminate killing Obama is doing?

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 10:46 PM

You don't think bombing a whole city with phosphorous bombs killed indiscriminately?

Wild Cobra

10-18-2012, 10:54 PM

You don't think bombing a whole city with phosphorous bombs killed indiscriminately?
If you are talking about the 2004 Fallujah incident, they only used phosphorous aerial flares and phosphorus smoke screens. The accuser took back his claims, saying he never saw burned victims.

LnGrrrR

10-18-2012, 10:56 PM

I'm pretty sure that Bush used quite a few drones as well. I don't think it's just red team or blue team relying on drones. Do you really think McCain or Romney would/will use less drone strikes?

Wild Cobra

10-18-2012, 10:58 PM

I'm pretty sure that Bush used quite a few drones as well. I don't think it's just red team or blue team relying on drones. Do you really think McCain or Romney would/will use less drone strikes?
I'm not saying otherwise. My point is that republicans use them sparingly rather than in countless numbers like the democrats do.

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:00 PM

I'm not saying otherwise. My point is that republicans use them sparingly rather than in countless numbers like the democrats do.

:lol

Sparingly...we have a govt contractor who took back everything, so it didn't happen,,,

:rolleyes

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:05 PM

The U.S. military first denied that it has used white phosphorus as an anti-personnel weapon in Fallujah, but later retracted that denial, and admitted to using the incendiary in the city as an offensive weapon.[17] Reports following the events of November 2004 have alleged war crimes, human rights abuses, and a massacre by U.S. personnel.[18] This point of view is presented in the 2005 documentary film, Fallujah, The Hidden Massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah

Wild Cobra

10-18-2012, 11:05 PM

Sorry, that does not compute...

What do you mean?

FuzzyLumpkins

10-18-2012, 11:09 PM

"It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said.

The US had earlier said the substance - which can cause burning of the flesh - had been used only for illumination.

BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood says having to retract its denial is a public relations disaster for the US.

It's not hard to figure out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4440664.stm

If you cannot figure out what happened just 7 years ago how on Earth do you expect us to buy your bullshit about 30 years ago?

Wild Cobra

10-18-2012, 11:13 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah
How many people did it hurt?

I see you you rely on the common persons addition to wiki, which any of us can edit. Did you read the attached note [17]? Hell no you didn't. It is flat out obvious you didn't. You are just parroting an internet article as fact. One that has spin.

If you believe everything you read on the internet, I can direct you to some sites...

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:17 PM

What if Trayvon died (not had died) in the WTC attack?

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:19 PM

Yes, democrats think they are morally superior, because the will unleash countless cruise missiles and drones. Sure, this saves US lives, but they kill indiscriminately. The Middle East zealots probably flew those planes into our buildings as a counter attack to president Clinton exhausting our cruise missile supply. What will happen after all this indiscriminate killing Obama is doing?

Certainly the heat and sabot rounds from the Army that you served weren't very discriminate either, neither were the cluster bombs, napalm or daisy cutters the USAF (that I served) used.

Let's not get all pious now.

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:20 PM

Deny, deny deny...don't believe your own lying eyes..

Robert Holmes Tuttle, U.S. ambassador to the United Kingdom, stated in November 2005 that U.S. forces "do not use napalm or white phosphorus as weapons."[12] However, on 15 November, within a week of Ambassador Tuttle's statement, Pentagon spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Barry Venable noted that the use of white phosphorus was conventional, that it was not illegal, and stated to the BBC: "It has been used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants."[13] In particular,

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:22 PM

I'm not saying otherwise. My point is that republicans use them sparingly rather than in countless numbers like the democrats do.

Sorry, but even as a conservative I have to disagree. The military under Bush killed just as indiscriminately. Do you think a pilot from a gunship can more easily identify friend or foe from,oh 3k feet than the cameras on a drone where a room full of people are making the assessment and a recon team on the ground is lasing a target?

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:22 PM

Killing people sucks, but think how much better we would be today if Bush had gone into Iraq with killer drones instead of a military occupation..

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:23 PM

Among the many more important things that aren't covered at all in these debates..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zru40sTQ84A

Oh, and you need to ween yourself from nuzzling the teat of others and think for yourself. Between you and Boutons, there's no teat left for anyone else.

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:24 PM

Killing people sucks, but think how much better we would be today if Bush had gone into Iraq with killer drones instead of a military occupation..

How much better would we be? You have to have boots on the ground when there's a manhunt. If you think we don't have boots on the ground when a drone strikes in most cases you're misinformed. The drone doesn't make the decision to engage. There are still eyes and ears on the ground and a high level commander calling the shot. The drone is just the firing mechanism. Pretending it's some Skynet device might be the ignorant trend but it's pretty naive.

These are the enemy's worse nightmare. They come in undetected and are quiet, and they pack a fucking punch. Most of all they can spend a great amount of time in your area and they are equipped with the technology to ID targets much better than a tomcat at 430kts with limited fuel.

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:25 PM

I would say its been pretty fucken effective...and we got boots on the ground in Pakistan didn't we?

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:30 PM

I would say its been pretty fucken effective...and we got boots on the ground in Pakistan didn't we?

Yes, that was the point. We had to ID OBL. A drone strike wouldn't have given us any confirmation in that case. We get confirmation in most cases even with UAVs from intelligence in the area.

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:35 PM

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:38 PM

WE had plenty of intelligence in Iraq, nobody knew where the WMDs were because they were destroyed after Saddam tried to use them in the first war and it didn;t work like it had with Iran, although probably, I suspect, the cause of Gulf war syndrome..

If you think we went into Iraq to look for WMDs, not to secure oil fields and topple the Hussein government, I've got a bridge to sell you. Gulf War syndrome was too many REMFs filing disability because they saw dead people.

Also, if you think this in-fighting going on in the ME isn't exactly what we want you're mistaken. Get them killing each other and we don't have to do it. One rises, we either negotiate peace with him or we kill him. They cannot run organized training camps if they are too busy blowing each other up in the markets.

Nbadan

10-18-2012, 11:40 PM

If you think we went into Iraq to look for WMDs, not to secure oil fields and topple the Hussein government, I've got a bridge to sell you. Gulf War syndrome was too many REMFs filing disability because they saw dead people.

PTSD is nothing to kid about...I never said we went into Iraq to look for WMD...we went because the world is running out of oil...

DMC

10-18-2012, 11:43 PM

Trainwreck2100

10-18-2012, 11:51 PM

What if trayvon had been a unicorn

FuzzyLumpkins

10-18-2012, 11:52 PM

It's existed as long as there have been stressful situations. It's always the REMFs that get it. They join to be all the can be and all they could be was a shotgun rider in a supply convoy because they got to sleep indoors.

REMF? Sorry that is horseshit. I've known armor, infantry and air ambulance that have/had severe PTSD. Flying air ambulance in the first few years of the vietnam war was not fun from the accounts that I hear.

Latarian Milton

10-19-2012, 01:32 AM

Yes, democrats think they are morally superior, because the will unleash countless cruise missiles and drones. Sure, this saves US lives, but they kill indiscriminately. The Middle East zealots probably flew those planes into our buildings as a counter attack to president Clinton exhausting our cruise missile supply. What will happen after all this indiscriminate killing Obama is doing?

as long as it saves american lives im ok with it being used tbh

Latarian Milton

10-19-2012, 01:37 AM

If you think we went into Iraq to look for WMDs, not to secure oil fields and topple the Hussein government, I've got a bridge to sell you. Gulf War syndrome was too many REMFs filing disability because they saw dead people.

Also, if you think this in-fighting going on in the ME isn't exactly what we want you're mistaken. Get them killing each other and we don't have to do it. One rises, we either negotiate peace with him or we kill him. They cannot run organized training camps if they are too busy blowing each other up in the markets.

you fooling yourself if you believe we went there to take out WMDs which never exited. bush administration was funded by military contractors and a war is always seen as a golden chance to make a fortune by these motherfuckers, which was the real reason the war happened. what otherwise would be the point in wasting billions of dollars plus thousands of american lives only to secure the oil supply for our european allies?

boutons_deux

10-19-2012, 04:50 AM

I'm not saying otherwise. My point is that republicans use them sparingly rather than in countless numbers like the democrats do.

WC's soft on terrorism.

dubya said he didn't care about OBL, let him escape at Bora Bora, and like dickhead didn't care about (Repug) deficits.

drone technology has advanced tremendously since dubya and dickhead were fucking up the planet.

drones are great, but the collateral damage of innocents killed is a disaster.

I remember here when dubya's military, and mercenaries, murdered lots of innocents, right-wingers here shrugged it off as what simply happens in all wars, and "terrorists living among their families", aka "tough luck". Now that it happens under Obama, the right-wing is so very weepy, bleeding hearted, sympathetic to dead innocents killed by the big bad Obama.

What really pisses off right-wingers is that Americans in general poll as giving Obama credit for being tough on terrorists.

SA210

10-19-2012, 10:00 AM

Nobel Peace Drone

http://www.a-w-i-p.com/media/blogs/articles/Articles19/PAK_drone_attacks_in_pakistan_c.jpg

Blake

10-19-2012, 10:02 AM

What if trayvon had been a unicorn

He would need an extra hole in the hoodie

DMC

10-19-2012, 10:27 AM

REMF? Sorry that is horseshit. I've known armor, infantry and air ambulance that have/had severe PTSD. Flying air ambulance in the first few years of the vietnam war was not fun from the accounts that I hear.

The Gulf War wasn't in Nam. We didn't lose 50K in the Gulf War.

There were half a million troops and only about 80 people KIA. Any is too many, but it wasn't nam. Very few people saw anything close to nam in fact. There were almost 60 killed in non-combat related events.

So, had he said "nam" instead of "Gulf War" I wouldn't have taken any issue with it.

jack sommerset

10-19-2012, 11:33 AM

I wonder how someone with a kill list wins the Nobel peace prize. God bless

clambake

10-19-2012, 11:36 AM

do you know anything about nobel? anything?

djohn2oo8

10-19-2012, 11:44 AM

I wonder how someone with a kill list wins the Nobel peace prize. God bless
I wonder if you think Kill Lists have never been used before. Ron Bless.

z0sa

10-19-2012, 11:51 AM

Just wait til there's drone strikes on US soil.

rjv

10-19-2012, 12:07 PM

one of the most egregious offenses committed by obama has been his wreckless endorsement of drone warfare which has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians (this, of course, would not end under romney).

SA210

10-19-2012, 12:48 PM

I wonder how someone with a kill list wins the Nobel peace prize. God bless

Which includes American citizens..

DMC

10-19-2012, 01:08 PM

Just wait til there's drone strikes on US soil.

Wait, so we've had fighter/bomber aircraft for half a century and there's never been one used by the government on US soil other than practice, and you think putting the same ordinance on a drone will change that? What, are pilots afraid Mexicans are going to shoot them down?

DMC

10-19-2012, 01:19 PM

So they are being terrorized now? Sounds good to me. They should lose sleep worrying about death from above.

FuzzyLumpkins

10-19-2012, 03:53 PM

The Gulf War wasn't in Nam. We didn't lose 50K in the Gulf War.

There were half a million troops and only about 80 people KIA. Any is too many, but it wasn't nam. Very few people saw anything close to nam in fact. There were almost 60 killed in non-combat related events.

So, had he said "nam" instead of "Gulf War" I wouldn't have taken any issue with it.

So the difference between those relegated to the back and those that are worthy of respect despite PTSD is the conflict they fought in. You are splitting semantic hairs here. Convoy duty in Iraq was 'noncombat' but getting blown up watching your buddy die is getting blown up and watching your buddy die. Sure there are some cowards out there but saying all Iraq, Afghanistan vets are cowards is pretty low.

monosylab1k

10-19-2012, 04:54 PM

I would wonder where George Zimmerman got a drone.

:lmao

DMC

10-19-2012, 05:20 PM

So the difference between those relegated to the back and those that are worthy of respect despite PTSD is the conflict they fought in. You are splitting semantic hairs here. Convoy duty in Iraq was 'noncombat' but getting blown up watching your buddy die is getting blown up and watching your buddy die. Sure there are some cowards out there but saying all Iraq, Afghanistan vets are cowards is pretty low.

The difference is that someone who never saw battle has no reason to have PTSD. It's being used as a conduit to disability. My BiL is a doctor for the VA and a retired US Army flt surgeon. He tells me that the large majority of PTSD cases he handles are people claiming they were yelled at in basic, that they had to sleep in bad conditions (meaning in tents) or that they were on a base where at attack occurred away from where they were. He has people tell him they were in combat but their DD214 says otherwise. He still has to provide a service to them and that delays the help to those who really need it. You see these pussies just want him to sign off on their disability and/or get them some drugs. Sure there are some people who were kicking doors who are having a hard time coping, but disability classes upon separation from the Army teach these recruits how to make claims for disability. I worked with a black guy who said he was getting 50% because he was ridiculed by his drill instructor and lost sleep over it. I didn't believe him until he showed me his paperwork.

I didn't say all REMFs get PTSD. Why do you keep inventing strawmen to defeat? Why don't you just quote me (there's a quote function for a reason) and attack that?

Were you an REMF? You seem pretty defensive.