Preseason Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Magic - Oct. 21, 2012

[Bruno]

What an ugly game. In a preseason, that started with Spurs claiming wanting to be better defensively and less kind, Spurs delivered a soft defenseless performance against a modest Magic team. The Lakers centers farm team won the game 104-100 and Spurs record is now 3-3 for the preseason.

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/724/scoreyw.jpg

Tim Duncan
After having played 16 minutes against Miami yesterday, Duncan didn't get the night off and played another 12 quality minutes. Duncan made some great offensive moves and was solid defensively. even if he played only a little in both games, it's very encouraging to see Pop playing Tim in a b2b during the preseason.

Tony Parker
There is clearly a conditioning issue around Parker. Almost all his jumpshots were short today, a sign of a lack of legs and he got burned a couple of times on defense by Nelson. Pop and Parker both are working to solve that issue. Pop gave a lot of minutes to Parker today and Tony was really aggressive with multiples drives to the basket. Parker's poor conditioning could be explained by a perturbed summer where he stopped basketball activities twice (before and after the Olympics).

Manu Ginobili
It was Dr Manu and Mister Ginobili today.
Dr Manu plays a very efficient offensive team basketball with a good jumpshot. He was very active defensively.
Mr Ginobili tried awfully complex plays that seemed taken from a HORSE contest and made some wild gamble defensively.
So, a mixed night for Manu Ginobili. He seems to be a good shape and ready for the season but he needs to be more focused.

Kawhi Leonard
Kawhi plays the right way in this game by playing within himself and making some hustle plays. Now the big issue is that he is in a big shooting slump this preseason. His FG% is below 25% with an ugly 10-41 from the field. Kawhi just needs to keep taking good shots and hopefully his slump will end soon.

Danny Green
Speaking of shooting slump, Green has broken his in an impressive fashion for 3 games. He is taking shoots without hesitation like when he was at his best. This confident and efficient Danny Green is the kind of very useful players every team need.

Boris Diaw
Diaw had a quiet game. Offensively, his passing was good and he fits really well with Duncan but he missed seem easy shots. Defensively, he was solid but too passive.

Stephen Jackson
Jackson played a damn fine game. His activity level went way up compared to yesterday. The most impressive was how sounded his game was on both end of the court. He played a mistake free game. It's great how Jack has turned back from a high usage ineffective player to an effective role player when he came back to SA.

Matt Bonner
The Matt Bonner mystery continue. Bonner only played 5 minutes but was the first big from the bench. In these 5 minutes, Bonner was just bad. Poor defense and only an ugly missed put shot offensively.
Bonner preseason games were either not playing or being bad in limited minutes. It's not very encouraging after another choke job he had in the playoffs.

Patty Mills
Mills came back from an ankle sprain and seems to be healthy. He was active and moving well defensively. Offensively, he shoots much. I guess he is feeling he is behind others for the backup PG battle and wanted to catch them up.

Tiago Splitter
A deceiving performance. Defensively, his only move was to raise up his arms while being on his heels. He can be more than a backpedaling tree on that end of the court. Offensively, when he decided to stop being soft and being aggressive, he was fine. The good news is that his free throw shooting looked better than in the playoffs even if there are still work to do in that area.

Derrick Brown
Pop said that the battle for the 15th spot was between Curry and him and after this game, I'm even more convinced Curry should be kept. Brown is an active player but he lacks of skills. He mostly played PF in his meaningful minutes, defensively he was fine on the perimeter but got schooled inside. Offensively, he is still a very limited player even if he hit a couple of jumpshots.

Gary Neal
I don't like the way Neal is playing. His defense is bad, with Reddick being the beneficiary this time, and his shot selection isn't great. On the plus side for him today, he was aggressive offensively which leads to some good plays.

Josh Powell
Powell was widely inconsistent from play to play and on both end of the court. His game was a succession of good and bad plays. It's hard to see Spurs keeping him when he plays like that.

DeJuan Blair
The rookie from Pittsburg show a nice level of activity but he has still a lot to learn before becoming a NBA player.

Wait...
Someone just told me he has started 150 NBA games...

DeJuan Blair was heartbreaking in that game. You might think that after 3 years in the NBA where he played a lot, he would have some kind of fundamentals but no. He made rookie mistake after rookie mistake. He is for sure in a good shape and motivated but that's not enough. He seems too to be on his way out of the rotation by only playing at the end of games.

Coach Pop
Pop didn't care about this game and didn't even try to do some coaching so there is nothing to say.

Jacque Vaughn
Magic were playing the right way by sharing the ball offensively and by playing some defense. You could see the Spurs touch there. Saying that, Magic really lack of talent and it will be a long season for them.

[ElNono]

Thanks for the writeup Bruno

[lefty]

More Timvp please


I kid I kid

Thanks Bruno


And Fuck off Blair

[racm]

Pop not giving a damn about the game to boost up Vaughn's spirits? Typical Pop, tbh.

As usual Timmy's the best player. :toast

[TimDunkem]

Who's Ganny Green?

[racm]

Bonner playing only five minutes and being invisible... in the preseason! :wow

[RodNIc91]

Thanks bruno, I appreciate you taking time to do these since timvp is MIA. Do you have any sort of idea or perception heading into the start of the season?

[Admidave50]

Good job bruno, nice for you to step up! :toast

[weebo]

looks like its going to be that kind of season....offensively average and defensively inconsistent

[Leetonidas]

looks like its going to be that kind of season....offensively average and defensively inconsistent

yes, coming off a historic offense season and where our team was above average defensively, they are going to be "average" on offense :lol its a fucking preseason game, what the fuck is wrong with you

[NZ Spurs]

Clearly the Spurs were experimenting with the defense. It appeared to be a disaster, but they likely learnt something. Might want to factor that in to analysis.

[therealtruth]

So Bonner's still stuck in his playoff funk. Somebody needs to tell him it's the regular season again or maybe not. If Neal can't guard slower guards like Derek Fisher's and JJ Reddicks who can he guard? If the Spurs want to improve defensively I think he may need to be only a situational or 3rd string guard.

[Ice009]

Neal might have to go to a Steve Kerr type of role because of his lack of defense.

[Libri]

Kawhi Leonard
Kawhi plays the right way in this game by playing within himself and making some hustle plays. Now the big issue is that he is in a big shooting slump this preseason. His FG% is below 25% with an ugly 10-41 from the field. Kawhi just needs to keep taking good shots and hopefully his slump will end soon.


I don't recall if Leonard ever hit the rookie wall, if such a thing exists.

Although extremely late, maybe he's going through that crash, a little bit, during preseason. I guess we'll get more of an indication when the season starts.

Or, like you said, he's just going through a shooting slump.

[DanAu]

Bruno and Timvp's writups confirm one thing....Even the most knowledgable outside the Spurs FO seem to have no fuking clue what the hell is happening this pre-season outside of the core rotation...deep bench seems all over the shop, defense is the focus but its failing, the games are looking like a disinterested shootaround for those that are confirmed rotation players as they are for the coaches. I really wonder how this can be converted into the solid team working for and with each other that we saw up until finals last season.
Is the plan to run just a core 8-9 players rather than utilising the depth like last season? I certainly have zero idea of the direction and its pissing me off.

[Sean Cagney]

So Bonner's still stuck in his playoff funk. Somebody needs to tell him it's the regular season again or maybe not. .

Maybe they should tell him to go somewhere, way the fu*ck away from here........ How about ship him to LA?

[Boomersgold]

How well did Patty Mills play? I saw a bit of the second quarter, and Tony Parker played like crap.

[dylankerouac]

Thanks Bruno.

I missed the game but Kawhi's shooting slump is unfortunate. At least he has a lot of time to modify his play before the playoffs arrive.

[racm]

Kawhi's shooting slump is him trying to do too much, perhaps.

[DanAu]

How well did Patty Mills play? I saw a bit of the second quarter, and Tony Parker played like crap.

Patty - Not good, not bad, shot poorly with some wide open looks.

[Thomas82]

Pop not giving a damn about the game to boost up Vaughn's spirits? Typical Pop, tbh.

As usual Timmy's the best player. :toast

If TD keeps playing like he is, and IMO he looks even better than he did last year, I'll have to start calling him Benjamin Button.

[99 Problems]

Millsy

I get the feeling that he has been thinking hard about improving his defence. He's shooting a bit but as Bruno said may feel he has to play catch up. He's a 6 foot baller regardless how you look at it, he not A.I. but for a million bucks he's a steal, smart and young.

[Boomersgold]

Patty - Not good, not bad, shot poorly with some wide open looks.

How does he compare to De Colo and Joseph when they play 15+ minutes. I guess it's his first game in awhile, so it'd make sense that his shooting was a bit rusty (like Parker, he'll get his shot back as he plays more).

[Ice009]

De Colo is a superior passer, Joseph is a better defender, Patrick is a better shooter than both.

None of the PGs are creating any separation from either other and it is very frustrating.

[TimDunkem]

De Colo is a superior passer, Joseph is a better defender, Patrick is a better shooter than both.

None of the PGs are creating any separation from either other and it is very frustrating.

While Neal is an offensive machine who plays zero defense.

What do the Spurs do from here?

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the writeup Bruno.

[Boomersgold]

While Neal is an offensive machine who plays zero defense.

What do the Spurs do from here?

I guess we could you both Neal and Patty as the backup point guard depending on the situation. If we need instant offense, put on Neal. If we need speed and above average defense, put on Mills. I don't think De Colo and Joseph are NBA ready yet.

[Ice009]

While Neal is an offensive machine who plays zero defense.

What do the Spurs do from here?

Exactly, it is very frustrating. The Spurs have got 4 players and I don't think any of them are good enough to separate themselves and be the outright backup PG. They all are better than each other in one area. I'd say Mills has a chance to go ahead of Gary if he improves his defense, but then again Mills' PG skills are not really better than Neal's, which is not a good thing at all when your backup PG isn't really a PG. Haven't seen much great passing from Mills or him running the show.

Personally, I'd pick Joseph because of his defense. I always want defense first, so not sure if that is the right way to go about it, but I'd go with Joseph purely based on defense. Problem is, he has a long way to go on offense.

[TDMVPDPOY]

what is gary neals pg duties? he does jackshit at that role...bringing the ball up anyone can do that, he doesnt set plays or lookout for open man besides looking out for his own shot

[Ice009]

what is gary neals pg duties? he does jackshit at that role...bringing the ball up anyone can do that, he doesnt set plays or lookout for open man besides looking out for his own shot

As bad as Neal is at PG, Mills isn't really much better, not from what I have seen anyway. That is Mills' fault, not Neal's. Mills would have the job if he was a halfway decent PG. He's more of a scorer like Neal. Mills, I think is a bit better defender though, not sure about who the better scorer is. I think Gary is still the better shooter. Mills hasn't really had the court time in the NBA to prove that he can keep up his scoring like he did the last few games of the regular season last season.

[DapDaGenius]

Man, Kawhi's shooting slump seems like he is trying to do too much. Almost as if he is trying to recreate what he was able to do in the summer. I wonder what's going on with him....hmm

[TDMVPDPOY]

As bad as Neal is at PG, Mills isn't really much better, not from what I have seen anyway. That is Mills' fault, not Neal's. Mills would have the job if he was a halfway decent PG. He's more of a scorer like Neal. Mills, I think is a bit better defender though, not sure about who the better scorer is. I think Gary is still the better shooter. Mills hasn't really had the court time in the NBA to prove that he can keep up his scoring like he did the last few games of the regular season last season.

not a fan of patty mills, dude is just to fkn small who gets pushed around, hence his more of a scorer then anything else....doesnt help when most of the backup PGS are 1 dimensional players only good at one skill set only.....

[DanAu]

Neal is the best shooter, De Colo the best passer, Joseph the best defender, Mills not as good of a strength as any of them, but not as weak of a weakness as any of them. Mill's game is also most similar to Tony's game, so might require less adjusting for the rest of the rotation.

I think they will use Neal in slow tempo games when he can come in and get some easy baskets, maintain a lead, Mills when they need to speed things up and push the tempo or when the tempo is being pushed and Joseph as a stopper for the right situation.

If Mills actually starts hitting his shots, he'll take Neals minutes. They both pull the same terrible shots, which seems a given, its just who hits more..

[Bruno]

Thanks for the all the thanks. :toast

Regarding the backup PG spot, I think it has to go to Mills. Mills hasn't a lot of playmaking skills but the backup PG will be paired with Manu so he doesn't really need to be a good playmaker. Another reason Mills should get that spot is because he is the only legit option: Neal is an atrocious defender at the PG spot, De Colo aren't ready for the moment and Nando might be more a SG than a PG.

While Kawhi has tried, and failled, to expand his offensive repertoire in this preseason, he has too missed some easy shots he usually made last year. I would say he has too separate issues: one is his skills aren't developed enough for some moves he is trying and the other is a classic shooting slump. Now, there could have a psychological link between them. Kawhi inability to make elaborate plays could have alter his global confidence. For the regular season, he needs to go back to what he did last year and incorporate little by little what he worked on this summer.

[Bruno]

Do you have any sort of idea or perception heading into the start of the season?

Well, it hasn't been a good preseason for Spurs. Now it's hard to say if it will really have a negative impact into the regular season because the intensity won't be the same at all in these games.

Regarding what didn't work in the preseason, some are worrying, some aren't.
An example of what doesn't really worry me are Parker and Kawhi poor preseasons. Parker isn't in good shape but he should be fine after, in the worst case, a couple of weeks into the regular season. Kawhi has shown too much in his rookie year to be really concerned by his recent poor games.
The lack of defense is more worrying. It could be put on a lack of defensive intensity but there is too a true concern regarding Spurs frontcourt defensive level. Aside of Duncan, who is still really good, and Diaw, who is a solid defender, Spurs are really weak in that area. Blair and Bonner are atrocious defenders, Splitter has been a softie lately and Curry, if kept, won't help a lot in this area.

[Raven]

Kawhi's shooting slump is him trying to do too much, perhaps.

i think it is more a consequence of bad lineups and lack of passing from the team.. he'll get going soon ;)

[urunobili]

Love Bruno's recaps. He is very straight forward and hits without anesthesia... :tu

[Brazil]

thanks Bruno. I missed the game so it is nice to get a recap.

To sum up ala Elnono style: TP and D suck that's it for the moment

[SenorSpur]

Matt Bonner
The Matt Bonner mystery continue. Bonner only played 5 minutes but was the first big from the bench. In these 5 minutes, Bonner was just bad. Poor defense and only an ugly missed put shot offensively. Bonner preseason games were either not playing or being bad in limited minutes. It's not very encouraging after another choke job he had in the playoffs.

The Spurs coaching staff should be pleased to see that Bonner is in playoff form.

Thanks for the writeup Bruno. Very nice job.

[temujin]

I sort of notice that the traditional Bonner's bashing is slowly but steadily percolating into Neal.
These two chaps shot some 450 3 pointers in the last season, scoring at a pace of 42% each.
Not bad.
I really don't think Popovich is so willing to put them both on the bech for good.
Not if those 450 shots will be given to Leonard (for the time being), DeColo or even Manu, for that matter.

Some people think Pop is some kind of lunatic that sees things that are not for real. I think he is not
As for Bonner, I can easily see a much decreased role, in which he migh not even suit up for many games.
Among other things, he is an unathletic big turning 33.
The same applies for Mr. Blair, a 6'6'' center no other NBA team wanted, despite the tiny contract and the fantastic rate of value for money.
If Spurs sign Curry, it's because they feel they need him now, and not in street clothes as a 13, 14 or 15th member of the team.

Neal is a totally different asset: he will be used, untill Green, De Colo, Mills, and even Manu for that matter, will guarantee the type of outside shooting he has provided in the two past seasons. Highly unlikely for all of them, excpet Mills. Plus, he's been clutch over and over again.
He certainly can't guard fast PG, but his defense against 2 guards is passable. Not much worse than Parker's in most RS games of the past seasons, anyway.

[lcroock]

Spurs need to trade Splitter and Blair and whomever else it takes to get Varejao or somebody similar who is mobile and can provide some sort of intimidation factor. Our frontcourt is pathetic. Otherwise we'll see smallball come playoff time and a 2nd round exit. Maybe De-Colo, Blair, Splitter for Varejao and Gibson?

[Spurs Brazil]

The problem this season will be, again, the bigs. Blair and Bonner aren't talented enough to be in the rotation of a team that want to win the championship. Tiago is getting worst. I hope RC can find a good trade to get a real big

[elemento]

I sort of notice that the traditional Bonner's bashing is slowly but steadily percolating into Neal.
These two chaps shot some 450 3 pointers in the last season, scoring at a pace of 42% each.
Not bad.
I really don't think Popovich is so willing to put them both on the bech for good.
Not if those 450 shots will be given to Leonard (for the time being), DeColo or even Manu, for that matter.

Some people think Pop is some kind of lunatic that sees things that are not for real. I think he is not
As for Bonner, I can easily see a much decreased role, in which he migh not even suit up for many games.
Among other things, he is an unathletic big turning 33.
The same applies for Mr. Blair, a 6'6'' center no other NBA team wanted, despite the tiny contract and the fantastic rate of value for money.
If Spurs sign Curry, it's because they feel they need him now, and not in street clothes as a 13, 14 or 15th member of the team.

Neal is a totally different asset: he will be used, untill Green, De Colo, Mills, and even Manu for that matter, will guarantee the type of outside shooting he has provided in the two past seasons. Highly unlikely for all of them, excpet Mills. Plus, he's been clutch over and over again.
He certainly can't guard fast PG, but his defense against 2 guards is passable. Not much worse than Parker's in most RS games of the past seasons, anyway.

I agree with you temujin about Neal and it's not fair at all how fans are trashing Neal. Neal was asked to play as a PG in a desperate situation for SA when he isn't one. Even considering that his defense is bad, he didn't colapse in the playoffs offensively like Bonner or Green. He shot 44% from deep in the playoffs, while Bonner and Green shot 34%.
Even in the OKC series where all the bench players (expect for S-Jax) struggled, Neal shot 37% from deep. Green shot 17% and Bonner 14%.

Bottom line, Neal can't be compared with Bonner. Not at all.

[Obstructed_View]

Nice job, Bruno. :tu

[Das Texan]

I just find it odd that the copper headed choker hasnt really played much at all this preseason.

[timtonymanu]

I agree with you temujin about Neal and it's not fair at all how fans are trashing Neal. Neal was asked to play as a PG in a desperate situation for SA when he isn't one. Even considering that his defense is bad, he didn't colapse in the playoffs offensively like Bonner or Green. He shot 44% from deep in the playoffs, while Bonner and Green shot 34%.
Even in the OKC series where all the bench players (expect for S-Jax) struggled, Neal shot 37% from deep. Green shot 17% and Bonner 14%.

Bottom line, Neal can't be compared with Bonner. Not at all.

There are a fickle bunch of posters on this site. In Neal's rookie season, he was pretty popular on SpursTalk. Same with Splitter. Now a lot of people are calling for both to be gone. It is what it is though. Neal is a terrible defender and he's really hurting the team on that end. I definitely value his offense and I still like Neal, but his defense is just too bad for him to be getting the backup point guard spot.

As for Bonner, he's a lost cause. Those numbers will look good when it doesn't matter, but it soon changes when the playoffs come around. Pop and company should know better and know that by now.

[therealtruth]

I sort of notice that the traditional Bonner's bashing is slowly but steadily percolating into Neal.
These two chaps shot some 450 3 pointers in the last season, scoring at a pace of 42% each.
Not bad.
I really don't think Popovich is so willing to put them both on the bech for good.
Not if those 450 shots will be given to Leonard (for the time being), DeColo or even Manu, for that matter.

Some people think Pop is some kind of lunatic that sees things that are not for real. I think he is not
As for Bonner, I can easily see a much decreased role, in which he migh not even suit up for many games.
Among other things, he is an unathletic big turning 33.
The same applies for Mr. Blair, a 6'6'' center no other NBA team wanted, despite the tiny contract and the fantastic rate of value for money.
If Spurs sign Curry, it's because they feel they need him now, and not in street clothes as a 13, 14 or 15th member of the team.

Neal is a totally different asset: he will be used, untill Green, De Colo, Mills, and even Manu for that matter, will guarantee the type of outside shooting he has provided in the two past seasons. Highly unlikely for all of them, excpet Mills. Plus, he's been clutch over and over again.
He certainly can't guard fast PG, but his defense against 2 guards is passable. Not much worse than Parker's in most RS games of the past seasons, anyway.

Good. As soon as we stop play the worst defenders our defense will get better. Addition by subtraction. There's no reason guys like Neal and Bonner can't be situational like they would be on most teams.

[RodNIc91]

The lack of defense is more worrying. It could be put on a lack of defensive intensity but there is too a true concern regarding Spurs frontcourt defensive level. Aside of Duncan, who is still really good, and Diaw, who is a solid defender, Spurs are really weak in that area. Blair and Bonner are atrocious defenders, Splitter has been a softie lately and Curry, if kept, won't help a lot in this area.

Have you seen any changes to the defensive schemes? I mean, remember a couple of weeks ago when we saw Jerry Sloan? Maybe the coaching staff added a few wrinkles to the system and the team hasn't learned them quite well yet. I remember a couple of years ago when they tried new things defensively and they didn't work out so they returned to their old philosopy.

Regarding Tiago, I think that the will be able to deal him for the right price. I won't speculate much right now because the season hasn't even started, but given the contract demands he may set next summer and his play not satisfying Pop, I would assume he can eventually become expendable. Tiago plus a couple of other assets could get you a quality big.

[crc21209]

Thanks for the write up Bruno! :tu Nice job. I've only been able to watch like 2 pre-season games so far so these write-ups really help. I'm not worried about any of the Big 3 + Jax because I know they will bring it when the games start to matter. I'm also not worried about Kawhi because the guy is a baller. Like others have said here, it's all about the bigs this year. I don't trust Blair and Bonner. I don't trust Tiago to stay healthy. The only big we can trust is TD....

[Bruno]

Have you seen any changes to the defensive schemes? I mean, remember a couple of weeks ago when we saw Jerry Sloan? Maybe the coaching staff added a few wrinkles to the system and the team hasn't learned them quite well yet. I remember a couple of years ago when they tried new things defensively and they didn't work out so they returned to their old philosopy.

I've got the feeling that Spurs have collapsed more to the paint than in the past and they have done poorly which led to wide open shooters. Now, that's just a felling and I could be wrong on that.

[DapDaGenius]

i think it is more a consequence of bad lineups and lack of passing from the team.. he'll get going soon ;)

Or maybe Kawhi has been reading The Art of War and has been applying what he learned from it in the pre-season.....just kidding that would be funny though.

But I can see what you're saying, along with the usual pre-season "jitters".