Did you go to college/university or anything?

[FkLA]

However, I would never assume that a science major who writes a shit art history paper did so because they lack the intellectual capacity for academic writing. That would be stupid. The reverse is stupid, too. Everyone is different and is motivated by different things, but it cannot be assumed that just because someone chose a focus in the humanities, they did so because they lack the intellectual capacity to make it in the sciences.

As has been mentioned already youre confusing boring with difficult. Engineering or any other difficult science isnt just about not finding the subject boring. Ill put it like this, lets assume all things are equal--1000 students for each major and all of them are motivated and interested in what theyre doing...which of the two majors has the lower graduation rate ?

[ashbeeigh]

There is an art of science to all degrees. In many social sciences you need to take a statistics class and then develop some type of experiment of program. In undergrad I did it and am doing again for my Masters. There is tons of science behind evidence based practice and services that are delivered in a humanitarian field. Don't even for one second think that a therapist is just spouting shot for no reason, the way they answer and work towards solutions is based on researched techniques that are also scientifically backed for accuracy.

[BUMP]

BS in Geophysics at TTU, hopefully masters somewhere else.

:lmao CF thinking science majors would have trouble writing those bullshit papers. The papers I had to write in those retarded English literature classes are nothing compared to the ones I have to write for my science ones

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I thought you were a Mass Comm major with Justin Spookmon?

[BUMP]

Mass comm>science majors because they can speak really well!

[BUMP]

And if CF really thinks people who are science majors don't need to know how to write papers, she's even more retarded than I thought

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'll bet geophysics majors aren't as good at reading 300 pages of some shakespeare romance play as liberal arts majors are

[BUMP]

Yeah I guess she has that on me :( oh well

[Mr.Bookman]

All you joyboys who like making fun of librarians make me sick. Sure it may be a joke to you all but the library means a whole hell of a lot to me!

[DMC]

Obvious Mouse troll is obvious.

[DMC]

There is an art of science to all degrees. In many social sciences you need to take a statistics class and then develop some type of experiment of program. In undergrad I did it and am doing again for my Masters. There is tons of science behind evidence based practice and services that are delivered in a humanitarian field. Don't even for one second think that a therapist is just spouting shot for no reason, the way they answer and work towards solutions is based on researched techniques that are also scientifically backed for accuracy.

Oh there's a reason, there's just no scientific method behind it. There's no art to science. In it's pure form, it's an amoral method of data collection and an attempt to explain that data, but even the explanations built within walls of data get remodeled quite frequently as we learn more using the same scientific method.

If there was an art to it, it would be a BA degree instead of a BS degree. The fact that liberal arts majors try so very hard to equivocate their degree into something science related just highlights the importance and difficulty of science degrees vs liberal arts degrees. I've never, not once, seen a science grad say "well at the heart of it all my degree is really a liberal art of science degree". No. "Soft, vague, superficial eloquence masked as science", that pretty well describes many liberal arts.

[DMC]

How is that different or worse than you and others in this thread assuming that liberal arts majors are only liberal arts majors because they're too stupid for the sciences?

I haven't said as much. It's not uncommon however that MS majors who switch their major due to workload and difficulty of classes move to liberal arts. It's uncommon for the reverse to happen. Just look at the degrees that college athletes get most often, almost always liberal arts of some form.

[TheRealCB]

Studying economics right now,when I'm done I'll go for an accounting MBA tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh getting an MBA in accounting is pretty worthless. As long as you can get your CPA that's the only certification that really matters in accounting.

[DMC]

College-educated athletes can be found in every sport, but here are some famous ones from several different communities.
Michelle Kwan, Mia Hamm – Political Science
Olympic ice skater Michelle Kwan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005111/bio) and Olympic soccer player Mia Hamm (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1202847/bio)both earned their Bachelor’s degree in political science, although don’t think that the degree makes Olympic athletes out of its students. Both women started their Olympic paths before earning their degrees! I know we could all make the same claim about our teen years. Olympic medals aside, a political science degree can point you toward careers such as politician, non-profit fundraiser, or sociologist.
Michael Jordan – Geography
Like many professional athletes, the mighty Michael Jordan (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0003044/bio) didn’t finish his Bachelor’s degree before leaving North Carolina University to join the NBA. However, it shows his true merit that he went back to finish his geography degree just a couple years later. Geography degrees can steer you toward a career in teaching or research if you aren’t a legendary basketball star.
Peyton Manning – Speech Communications
NFL Quarterback Peyton Manning (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1621659/bio) started out the same way many college students begin by pursuing his degree in speech communications. However, he did things a bit different: he earned his Bachelor’s degree in three years instead of four. Oh, and he went on to make millions of dollars playing in the NFL. For those without a million-dollar arm, this degree can land you a job in journalism or marketing.
Phil Mickelson – Psychology
Golf legend Phil Michelson (http://philmickelson.com) earned his Bachelor’s degree in psychology only months before going pro at the 1992 U.S. Open. This means that you still have some time to work on your putting if you want to follow in his footsteps. But for the more realistic, a Bachelor’s degree in psychology typically means a job in many different areas such as clinical psychology or research.
Mark Spitz – Pre-Dental
Mark Spitz (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,994874,00.html) earned the most Olympic medals in swimming (until Michael Phelps beat him), but that wasn’t until after he earned his bachelor’s degree in pre-dental studies. Being a dentist had been his goal since high school, but little obstacles such as “the Olympics” and “national fame” got in his way. Think about that the next time you’re getting your teeth cleaned by a potential professional javelin star.
Shaquille O’Neal – General Studies
After leaving Louisiana State University in 1992 to play for the NBA, Shaq (http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=174841) finished his Bachelor’s degree in general studies in 2000 by attending summer school during the basketball offseason.What is a degree in general studies you ask? It is a sort of interdisciplinary degree that allows the student to build their own curriculum from a wide range of topics. This degree is specifically offered as a degree for adults who are forced to delay their studies, such as when you have to go play for the Orlando Magic (which happens to a lot of people).
Dhani Jones – Self-Representation
Dhani Jones (http://bowtiecause.org/index.php/item/the-who), a linebacker in the National Football League, earned his Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Michigan with a major of his own design called “Self-Representation.” Unsure of what that is? You’re not alone. Jones considers himself an artist first and even has his own creative agency in New York City.
Tim Tebow – Family, Youth and Community Sciences
Tim Tebow (http://www.gatorzone.com/football/misc.php?p=tebow/bio), winner of the Heisman trophy in 2007, earned his degree in Family, Youth and Community Sciences from the University of Florida. This degree would typically prepare students for careers such as elder care services, youth risk prevention, and family case manager. Surprisingly, being an amazing football player is not on the curriculum.
ALMOST AN ATHELETE: Eva Longoria – Kinesiology
Wondering what you could do with a degree that would actually prepare you for a sports career? Become a professional actress! Eva Longoria (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0519456/bio)earned her Bachelor of Science degree in kinesiology from Texas A&M University-Kingsville, but she was spotted and signed by a theatrical agent after entering a talent contest in Los Angeles. I guess she still needs to move onscreen, so her degree in kinesiology still comes in handy.


Boy those liberal arts degrees are tough. Shaq is one smart motherfucker.

[DMC]

Do you honestly think this is unique to engineering internships?

It must be because you didn't fucking know. Why do you keep throwing out red herrings? You asked about how to get a job in a saturated market and I told you. You really act like someone who's insecure about their degree.


So you didn't have non-engineering majors do engineering work? Shocking. If I ran a museum and took on a couple of engineering majors as interns, I likely wouldn't rely on them for their art historical knowledge.

No, did you have engineering majors handing out leaflets?


Thank god that true story happened, though, else you'd be robbed of a sick burn.

Robbed how? It's my story.


I haven't done that. You've accused me numerous times in this thread of attempting to equivocate or directly compare the work of an engineering student to that of a liberal arts student, but my position has always been that the differences in the two fields make such comparisons largely irrelevant, if not wholly impossible. The fact that engineering is hard does not mean that everything that's not engineering is automatically not hard.
Yeah yeah, you cannot compare the two but no way a physics grad could do the 300 pages of writing you've done. It's all there in writing, I don't need you to paraphrase. Just quote.

You basically got the bullshit degree grandslam but you're likely a better person for it.

[ploto]

I'd rather hear about lawyers/doctors/engineers deciding to become librarians. It's a lot more entertaining.

Actually, go to any law school. The law librarians have both a JD and an MLS/MIS/MSIS and choose to work as librarians.

The Houston Academy of Medicine/Texas Medical Center Library in Houston that serves Baylor, UTHSC Houston, MD Anderson and a myriad of other institutions -- its library director is Maximilian Buja, M.D.

[ploto]

I've never, not once, seen a science grad say "well at the heart of it all my degree is really a liberal art of science degree".

Talk to some medical school professors.

[Juggity]

Boy those liberal arts degrees are tough. Shaq is one smart motherfucker.

At top-tier universities, liberal arts degrees are challenging. Most athletes don't get into top-tier universities.

[DMC]

Talk to some medical school professors.

Wouldn't change what I've seen.

[DMC]

At top-tier universities, liberal arts degrees are challenging. Most athletes don't get into top-tier universities.

Just for shits and giggles, what top tier university did you attend?

[DMC]

Actually, go to any law school. The law librarians have both a JD and an MLS/MIS/MSIS and choose to work as librarians.

The Houston Academy of Medicine/Texas Medical Center Library in Houston that serves Baylor, UTHSC Houston, MD Anderson and a myriad of other institutions -- its library director is Maximilian Buja, M.D.

lol just a bit misleading.

Dr Buja was the Dean of the UT Medical School at Houston. He was appointed to be the executive director of the medical school library. I highly doubt he does anything remotely associated with library sciences. Where did he get his degree in library and information sciences exactly?

If a HS teacher one day becomes the school's superintendent, does that make him a librarian as well since he's also in charge of the library?

btw, here's what that schools website says about him:

Maximilian Buja, MD

http://www.uth.tmc.edu/pathology/Assets/images/faculty/buja-l-max_8640.jpg Professor, Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
Distinguished Teaching Professor
Distinguished Chair in Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs

[Latarian Milton]

Studying economics right now,when I'm done I'll go for an accounting MBA tbh.
hope there's still an economy in greece by the time you graduate tbh

[Juggity]

Just for shits and giggles, what top tier university did you attend?

Let's just say one of the top 20 schools in the US News & World Report rankings to avoid identifying myself.

You can pick whichever one you want; the fact of the matter is that they make you work for your degree.

[DMC]

Oh, and from LLRx.com:

In fact, it can be a point of frustration for a person coming into the law library with the JD only to find that the directors and leaders of the library do not have a JD and do not see the need to increase compensation for those who have it. The following anonymous comment by a member of Generation X says it well: "As a state court librarian, I am often frustrated with regard to salary. In an interesting way, this issue is related to generations in law librarianship. The title of "librarian" in the N.J. court system does not require either a J.D. or M.L.S. Many of the older librarians who have been in their positions for years do not possess either. In addition, they have no reason to lobby for change with regard to the "librarian" job title. As one of the newer librarians, I don't feel that I am being justly compensated for my level of education. I also feel like I would have very little support from some of the older librarians if I wanted to seek a reclassification of the job title. I enjoy my work tremendously, however, my salary is extremely low considering my amount of student loan debt. (I have both and (sic) MLS and a JD)."16 (http://www.llrx.com/features/jdnecessary.htm#_ftn16)

[DMC]

Let's just say one of the top 20 schools in the US News & World Report rankings to avoid identifying myself.

You can pick whichever one you want; the fact of the matter is that they make you work for your degree.

So you went to Duke. Otherwise you would say something like "top 19".

[CuckingFunt]

Ill put it like this, lets assume all things are equal--1000 students for each major and all of them are motivated and interested in what theyre doing...which of the two majors has the lower graduation rate ?

I don't know the answer to that question. But, then again, neither do you.

[DMC]

The real question is which had the lower SAT scores.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't know the answer to that question. But, then again, neither do you.
That answer is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets tbh. You and I both know the answer.

[DMC]

One finding that did separate engineering from other major fields of study was apparent in the percentage of graduates who had started college in their eventual major; that's an indication of how many switched into a major partway through their collegiate career. Only half of those with social science degrees started in that field, 60 percent of physical science majors did, but a full 93 percent of engineers began their academic career in engineering.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2009/08/do-engineering-majors-have-the-highest-dropout-rate/

[Latarian Milton]

You have clearly never been a TA for a high level writing intensive course. A lot of the science majors can't write worth shit.

Which, to be clear, is meant merely as a statement and not as a judgment. Science majors have chosen a profession for which developing those skills is unnecessary. So they are relatively unaffected by being unable to write well. But the claim that any science major could sit down and bang out a competent academic paper just because they're smart enough to do so is asinine and isn't supported by my own experiences having to read/grade tons of art history papers over the last couple of years.

However, I would never assume that a science major who writes a shit art history paper did so because they lack the intellectual capacity for academic writing. That would be stupid. The reverse is stupid, too. Everyone is different and is motivated by different things, but it cannot be assumed that just because someone chose a focus in the humanities, they did so because they lack the intellectual capacity to make it in the sciences.

just because most scientific papers are hard to read due more often to their poor comprehension rather than the complexity of science itself, it doesn't mean writing skills are "unnecessary" imho, instead it just illustrates the importance of writing skills in scientific papers. some scientific papers don't contain too much graphs or math formulas but they're still difficult to understand because the writers don't give a shit about comprehension, and im sure it's not just those majored in non-science subjects who often have a hard time reading those scientific articles. sometimes you need to have a great background knowledge about the subject which the scientific paper talks about in order to presume what its author really wants to say. good writing skills are needed everywhere IMHO

you can't expect the natural scientists to write state-of-art articles, knowing that most of them are foreign born, but they should at least express their ideas lucidly & intricately using the very basic language, which they still often fail to do.

[Juggity]

So you went to Duke. Otherwise you would say something like "top 19".

Nope, didn't go to Duke.

That's as much as I'll say.

[CuckingFunt]

It must be because you didn't fucking know. Why do you keep throwing out red herrings? You asked about how to get a job in a saturated market and I told you.

I asked because I wanted you to clarify your statement, not because I don't know how internships work.


You really act like someone who's insecure about their degree.

That's rich. I'm not the one who feels it necessary to put down anyone else's field of study or to insinuate you and your fellow engineers are too stupid and/or lazy to hack it in my program. Or lashing out against insults that were never made.

I am extremely happy with the choices I have made in my education. Including the choice to move away from a business major that I found to be painfully boring.


Robbed how? It's my story.

Yes, but if the incident hadn't occurred, you wouldn't have it as a story to retell.


Yeah yeah, you cannot compare the two but no way a physics grad could do the 300 pages of writing you've done.

Your snark is duly noted, but, once again, I never stated and/or insinuated that engineering grads (or my friend, specifically) lacked the ability or the intellectual capacity necessary to do the volume and type of reading and writing required in my program. There's no doubt in my mind that someone who was able to make it through a graduate level engineering program is smart enough to also make it through a graduate level art history (or other humanities/liberal arts) program. My only contention, and this has been consistent throughout the thread, is that you cannot simply assume or make broad, blanket generalizations that the opposite may not also be true.

If you want to say that engineering is a hard degree, you'll get no argument from me. If you want to say that engineering is a more practical degree, from an employment/financial point of view, than a liberal arts degree at the same level, again you'll get no argument from me. However, taking either of those positions to their extreme and making the assertion that either a lack of intelligence or work ethic are the ONLY reasons people choose to pursue a liberal arts degree, or that engineering/science/math/business/whatever are the ONLY practical degrees, is not only problematic but is simply not supported by the real world. Just because they do not lead to the type of career or paycheck that you, personally, value as worthwhile does not mean that liberal arts degrees don't directly lead to careers that are both important and fulfilling. And just because they don't teach skills that you, personally, value as challenging or important to learn does not mean that liberal arts programs are wholly lacking in substance or academic rigor.


It's all there in writing, I don't need you to paraphrase. Just quote.

Yet you have consistently misunderstood my point in that and several other of my posts in this thread.


You basically got the bullshit degree grandslam but you're likely a better person for it.

My degrees are exactly what I need to be competitive in my chosen career. Just as your degree is what you needed to be competitive in your chosen career. I'm not sure if they hand out better person trophies for merely setting a goal and taking the steps necessary to reach it, but if they did it sounds like we'd be equally eligible.

[Agloco]

No, he's not interested in money. Not everything we do is about money. Perhaps it completes him. Education is for the soul.


Ya, but one requires balance. I happen to like what I do. If I didn't, I'd walk away from it and the flatbed semi that delivers my paycheck.

I was speaking to the fact that if one enters a career out of genuine interest, the rewards (economic) tend to come more easily.

[CuckingFunt]

The real question is which had the lower SAT scores.

Can only speak for my own 1490.

[Latarian Milton]

One finding that did separate engineering from other major fields of study was apparent in the percentage of graduates who had started college in their eventual major; that's an indication of how many switched into a major partway through their collegiate career. Only half of those with social science degrees started in that field, 60 percent of physical science majors did, but a full 93 percent of engineers began their academic career in engineering.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2009/08/do-engineering-majors-have-the-highest-dropout-rate/
its very hard for an engineering major to switch his career i suppose. engineering classes contain too much jargon and too little intelligence training cessions, and if you've done 4yr college study in an engineering major and choose to find a job after graduation, your either getting a well-paid job with your engineering degree or getting a shitty one at starbucks

[CuckingFunt]

That answer is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets tbh. You and I both know the answer.

No, it's not.

If you know the answer, I'd love to see the study you got it from. Additionally, I'd be curious to see how those who conducted this study define "motivated and interested" students, how they measure those qualities, and how they would control for them in the experiment.

[DMC]

I was speaking to the fact that if one enters a career out of genuine interest, the rewards (economic) tend to come more easily.

I was using Horatian satire.

[Agloco]

I was using Horatian satire.

Wasn't sure. F minus for the day.

[DMC]

I asked because I wanted you to clarify your statement, not because I don't know how internships work.

And I did, then I got this "Do you honestly think this is unique to engineering internships?".


That's rich. I'm not the one who feels it necessary to put down anyone else's field of study or to insinuate you and your fellow engineers are too stupid and/or lazy to hack it in my program. Or lashing out against insults that were never made.


Oh really...
I have a very dear friend who just finished an advanced engineering program. He's off-the-charts smart and is an incredibly hard worker. I know for a fact his head would explode if he had to do 200-300+ pages worth of academic reading every week and produce 60+ pages of scholarly writing every semester, which is what I did for two years.
I beg to differ.


I am extremely happy with the choices I have made in my education. Including the choice to move away from a business major that I found to be painfully boring.

Some people prefer fun over career.


Yes, but if the incident hadn't occurred, you wouldn't have it as a story to retell.

But I wouldn't have been robbed of something that never existed, not unless you mean in some psychotropic drug trip kind of way.


Your snark is duly noted, but, once again, I never stated and/or insinuated that engineering grads (or my friend, specifically) lacked the ability or the intellectual capacity necessary to do the volume and type of reading and writing required in my program. There's no doubt in my mind that someone who was able to make it through a graduate level engineering program is smart enough to also make it through a graduate level art history (or other humanities/liberal arts) program. My only contention, and this has been consistent throughout the thread, is that you cannot simply assume or make broad, blanket generalizations that the opposite may not also be true.

Again...


I have a very dear friend who just finished an advanced engineering program. He's off-the-charts smart and is an incredibly hard worker. I know for a fact his head would explode if he had to do 200-300+ pages worth of academic reading every week and produce 60+ pages of scholarly writing every semester, which is what I did for two years.

Can we put to rest this trail of denial when your statement is right there for others to see?


If you want to say that engineering is a hard degree, you'll get no argument from me. If you want to say that engineering is a more practical degree, from an employment/financial point of view, than a liberal arts degree at the same level, again you'll get no argument from me. However, taking either of those positions to their extreme and making the assertion that either a lack of intelligence or work ethic are the ONLY reasons people choose to pursue a liberal arts degree, or that engineering/science/math/business/whatever are the ONLY practical degrees, is not only problematic but is simply not supported by the real world. Just because they do not lead to the type of career or paycheck that you, personally, value as worthwhile does not mean that liberal arts degrees don't directly lead to careers that are both important and fulfilling. And just because they don't teach skills that you, personally, value as challenging or important to learn does not mean that liberal arts programs are wholly lacking in substance or academic rigor.

I didn't say any of that. Instead of using quotes then identifying my errors (the scientific method) you paraphrase and use hyperbole and emotive jargon to try to win your audience (human "sciences" method).

What I did say is you have a grand slam of shit degrees. I believe (this is opinion) that, if you polled major universities and asked people to list the shit degrees, though you might get a few protests and some "our degrees are just as good as blah blah blah" responses from the shitty degree majors, you would get overwhelming evidence that most people think the degrees you have, especially the Queer Studies minor, are at the top of the list of shit degrees. I would love to be able to just get a degree in bass fishing or making a self bow, but I actually felt I needed to earn a living. You don't need my approval, but you have my opinion.


Yet you have consistently misunderstood my point in that and several other of my posts in this thread.

Odd, someone who spent so much time and money taking classes centered around understanding and being understood cannot get a point across in written media.


My degrees are exactly what I need to be competitive in my chosen career. Just as your degree is what you needed to be competitive in your chosen career. I'm not sure if they hand out better person trophies for merely setting a goal and taking the steps necessary to reach it, but if they did it sounds like we'd be equally eligible.
Except your trophy would be much much cheaper because of your shitty degrees.

[DMC]

Wasn't sure. F minus for the day.

No, there are no losers here. There are only discoveries and healings.

[DMC]

its very hard for an engineering major to switch his career i suppose. engineering classes contain too much jargon and too little intelligence training cessions, and if you've done 4yr college study in an engineering major and choose to find a job after graduation, your either getting a well-paid job with your engineering degree or getting a shitty one at starbucks

At least as Starbucks you get to work with the Liberal Arts majors.

[TE]

DMC ... with no regard for life

[CuckingFunt]

I believe (this is opinion) that, if you polled major universities and asked people to list the shit degrees, though you might get a few protests and some "our degrees are just as good as blah blah blah" responses from the shitty degree majors, you would get overwhelming evidence that most people think the degrees you have, especially the Queer Studies minor, are at the top of the list of shit degrees.

And that would mean... what, exactly? Your opinion (actually, it's more of a hunch, but there's really no need to get bogged down in semantics) is that other people's opinion is likely similar to yours. Is this meant to be substantive in some way?


Odd, someone who spent so much time and money taking classes centered around understanding and being understood cannot get a point across in written media.

About as odd as someone as thoroughly educated as yourself having such difficulties with reading comprehension.

There's absolutely nowhere in that post you keep quoting in which I state or even suggest that the reason my friend wouldn't make it through the work I had to do was in any way related to his intelligence or lack thereof. Which you'd know if only you followed your own convoluted advice of scientifically sticking to the words I actually used, rather than paraphrasing, using hyperbole, and, through emotive jargon, assuming a point I never made in order to try and win your argument.

[ploto]

In fact, it can be a point of frustration for a person coming into the law library with the JD only to find that the directors and leaders of the library do not have a JD and do not see the need to increase compensation for those who have it. The following anonymous comment by a member of Generation X says it well: "As a state court librarian, I am often frustrated with regard to salary. In an interesting way, this issue is related to generations in law librarianship. The title of "librarian" in the N.J. court system does not require either a J.D. or M.L.S. Many of the older librarians who have been in their positions for years do not possess either. In addition, they have no reason to lobby for change with regard to the "librarian" job title. As one of the newer librarians, I don't feel that I am being justly compensated for my level of education. I also feel like I would have very little support from some of the older librarians if I wanted to seek a reclassification of the job title. I enjoy my work tremendously, however, my salary is extremely low considering my amount of student loan debt. (I have both an MLS and a JD)

I said LAW SCHOOL not New Jersey court system library.

[ploto]

I fail to understand how DMC just does not get that CF needs a Master of Art and an MLS/MIS to be an art librarian. They are both required for the job. That is an actual career.

Similarly, most university librarians have an MLS/MIS in addition to a second Master's Degree in a designated field of study for which they provide support and instruction to that academic department.

Whether you know it or not, you benefitted from some librarian while you were getting that engineering degree. Even if you never went to the actual building, who do you think selects, maintains, and provides access to all those engineering journals?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

IaO69CF5mbY

While I agree with his premise to no small degree, by all accounts Feynman was an overbearingly arrogant and sanctimonious individual. I have talked to a few that have worked with him and they described him as brilliant but overbearing.

He even states in his piece that he does not know and it's ironic that in his criticism of 'not doing all the checks' that he himself doesn't do all the checks. Even worse he makes the types of gross generalizations that stand opposite of the notion if empirical reductionism that he is getting at.

What it comes down to though is that via Newton, Einstein, Mendelev, Bohr, etc engineers, physicists and to varying lesser degrees chemists and the like have a rational framework on which to base our predictions. When it comes to other sciences like sociology and economics there are not precise rational frameworks to operate off of. Supply and demand is not nearly so rigorous as the laws of thermodynamics for example.

What I am getting though is some vicarious arrogance though. Feynman I can get. His work on QED is fascinating but just because you know heat equations well enough to design an adequate storage container does not really give you the right to shit on someone that is fleshing out a lesser understood discipline. Quite frankly, people who base their superiority on empirical reductionist disciplines and then classify something as liberal arts as the basis to denigrate it is pretty damn ironic. Perhaps you should do the necessary checks.

[TheRealCB]

hope there's still an economy in greece by the time you graduate tbh

Son by 25 years old I'm leaving this shithole :lol

[Latarian Milton]

What I did say is you have a grand slam of shit degrees. I believe (this is opinion) that, if you polled major universities and asked people to list the shit degrees, though you might get a few protests and some "our degrees are just as good as blah blah blah" responses from the shitty degree majors, you would get overwhelming evidence that most people think the degrees you have, especially the Queer Studies minor, are at the top of the list of shit degrees. I would love to be able to just get a degree in bass fishing or making a self bow, but I actually felt I needed to earn a living. You don't need my approval, but you have my opinion.


in fact all college degrees are pretty shitty these days to some extent based on investment-output ratio, knowing that about 50% of college graduates from 06 or later are either underemployed or unemployed. education has been treated more often as an easy path to a wealthy life & decent job in recent years, rather than a sacred process through which one gets a better vision of his life and becomes more intelligent.

[DMC]

While I agree with his premise to no small degree, by all accounts Feynman was an overbearingly arrogant and sanctimonious individual. I have talked to a few that have worked with him and they described him as brilliant but overbearing.

He even states in his piece that he does not know and it's ironic that in his criticism of 'not doing all the checks' that he himself doesn't do all the checks. Even worse he makes the types of gross generalizations that stand opposite of the notion if empirical reductionism that he is getting at.

What it comes down to though is that via Newton, Einstein, Mendelev, Bohr, etc engineers, physicists and to varying lesser degrees chemists and the like have a rational framework on which to base our predictions. When it comes to other sciences like sociology and economics there are not precise rational frameworks to operate off of. Supply and demand is not nearly so rigorous as the laws of thermodynamics for example.

What I am getting though is some vicarious arrogance though. Feynman I can get. His work on QED is fascinating but just because you know heat equations well enough to design an adequate storage container does not really give you the right to shit on someone that is fleshing out a lesser understood discipline. Quite frankly, people who base their superiority on empirical reductionist disciplines and then classify something as liberal arts as the basis to denigrate it is pretty damn ironic. Perhaps you should do the necessary checks.

So then you agree.

[DMC]

And that would mean... what, exactly? Your opinion (actually, it's more of a hunch, but there's really no need to get bogged down in semantics) is that other people's opinion is likely similar to yours. Is this meant to be substantive in some way?

Sure. Why would you get any degree if you weren't concerned about other people's opinions? Even job requirements are set based on opinions.


About as odd as someone as thoroughly educated as yourself having such difficulties with reading comprehension.

So you didn't actually say what I quoted you as saying. Got it. That really explains the "queer" in the "queer studies" course.


There's absolutely nowhere in that post you keep quoting in which I state or even suggest that the reason my friend wouldn't make it through the work I had to do was in any way related to his intelligence or lack thereof. Which you'd know if only you followed your own convoluted advice of scientifically sticking to the words I actually used, rather than paraphrasing, using hyperbole, and, through emotive jargon, assuming a point I never made in order to try and win your argument.
You said his head would explode. Your head obviously didn't explode (maybe it grew a bit but still). I think the point was clear. Others saw that point just as clearly as did I.

Perhaps you type too fast and in the process of doing so you were misinterpreted as saying something you didn't say, a condition in Queer Studies known as the SAS Syndrome.

[silverblk mystix]

Very interesting how much people identify with a title, label or a career. Interesting how someone like Funt was made out to be somehow- less pretentious in this thread.

[lakerhaterade]

Very interesting how much people identify with a title, label or a career. Interesting how someone like Funt was made out to be somehow- less pretentious in this thread.
CF has simply been embarrassed by DMC tbh.

[DMC]

I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone and I doubt I did.

sbm, your title is metrosexual prison guard. Not sure what degree is required but it has to have something to do with queer studies.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So then you agree.

Not entirely with him and much much less with your posturing.

[silverblk mystix]

I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone and I doubt I did.

sbm, your title is metrosexual prison guard. Not sure what degree is required but it has to have something to do with queer studies.


Only a fool identifies himself/herself by some title or label and if you'd like to think in those ways go right ahead. It doesn't mean anything at all in the grand scheme of things - whatever title you hold dear- that is.

[silverblk mystix]

CF has simply been embarrassed by DMC tbh.

Only in a small way and most of it was because she, herself, also identifies with labels and titles.

[Latarian Milton]

I wasn't trying to embarrass anyone and I doubt I did.

sbm, your title is metrosexual prison guard. Not sure what degree is required but it has to have something to do with queer studies.
you don't have to sneer at others just because they have "shitty" degrees compared to yours imho. their professions might not be very preferable in today's economy but you can't just say they didn't pay as much effort during their school years as you did

[DMC]

Only a fool identifies himself/herself by some title or label and if you'd like to think in those ways go right ahead. It doesn't mean anything at all in the grand scheme of things - whatever title you hold dear- that is.

Shut up faggot. Go blow Avante.

[DMC]

you don't have to sneer at others

No, but it's fun to watch all the old fat be@ners run to the rescue of a perceived lady in hopes of raising their chances of ever getting laid.

[Latarian Milton]

exactly, its often for the same reason those sissy bastards act anti-misogynist as a method of flattering females & increasing their chances to get free sex with them

[DMC]

Women are held to lower standards. If a man minored in Queer Studies and mentioned it here he would be laughed out of the forum. When a woman does it it's cultural and necessary.

[silverblk mystix]

lmao engineer

you probably work at Walmart

[DMC]

lmao engineer

you probably work at Walmart

I'm the guy you asked "where are the latex gloves?"

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Women are held to lower standards. If a man minored in Queer Studies and mentioned it here he would be laughed out of the forum. When a woman does it it's cultural and necessary.

Lower? You certainly seem determined to create a hierarchy here.

Men are homophobic to a much greater degree and identify wit men moreso than women. Men who show interest in homosexuality are generally exposed to attempts at social control whereas women are not. That's not a hierarchy, it just is what it is. Sounds like you're a homophobe though seeing your take on this though.

Woman majoring in a niche social studied is not viewed as 'necessary' and it's a cultutral issue by definition so it's inherently going to be viewed as such. Why do you have such emotional investment in shitting on liberal arts?

[DMC]

Lower? You certainly seem determined to create a hierarchy here.

Men are homophobic to a much greater degree and identify wit men moreso than women. Men who show interest in homosexuality are generally exposed to attempts at social control whereas women are not. That's not a hierarchy, it just is what it is. Sounds like you're a homophobe though seeing your take on this though.

Woman majoring in a niche social studied is not viewed as 'necessary' and it's a cultutral issue by definition so it's inherently going to be viewed as such. Why do you have such emotional investment in shitting on liberal arts?

^ another captain save-a-ho.

[silverblk mystix]

Lower? You certainly seem determined to create a hierarchy here.

Men are homophobic to a much greater degree and identify wit men moreso than women. Men who show interest in homosexuality are generally exposed to attempts at social control whereas women are not. That's not a hierarchy, it just is what it is. Sounds like you're a homophobe though seeing your take on this though.

Woman majoring in a niche social studied is not viewed as 'necessary' and it's a cultutral issue by definition so it's inherently going to be viewed as such. Why do you have such emotional investment in shitting on liberal arts?


Probably because if he didn't have some paper to identify himself with he would not have anything else left.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

^ another captain save-a-ho.

Yeah i'm chasing amy... or it could be that multiple people are calling you on being a douche because you are. are you another troll of m<s? you two seem to have the same worldview.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Probably because if he didn't have some paper to identify himself with he would not have anything else left.

If he did then that would be one thing but just as when he was namedropping Feynman, this shit is weak.

[DMC]

Yeah i'm chasing amy... or it could be that multiple people are calling you on being a douche because you are. are you another troll of m<s? you two seem to have the same worldview.

Let's see... Sbm and you. Sbm has a certificate from Los Buddies Greasy Spoon and Security Guard Training Service so that leaves you. Do you have a liberal arts degree?

[DMC]

If he did then that would be one thing but just as when he was namedropping Feynman, this shit is weak.

Wasn't name dropping. I just agreed with his take. You're probably the biggest blowhard on the forums in terms of your "knowledge" as you routinely criticize WC for his education vs yours, hypocrite.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let's see... Sbm and you. Sbm has a certificate from Los Buddies Greasy Spoon and Security Guard Training Service so that leaves you. Do you have a liberal arts degree?

What difference does that make? Let me put it to you this way: harmonic analysis in both the continuous and discrete sense is easey peasey.

You have pretty much abandoned the premise of your argument and have resorted to the degree epeen nonsense that your argument was based off of in the first place. Is your entire objective only to denigrate an entire group of people in general?

Now i am sure that you have an ME or something. Lord knows I have read enough of your autoeroticism about it but now your are going after the idea of a liberal arts degree. Not even with remote specificity. it's not even zero sum. I realize that you are not even going to address what you are saying on merits. It's just oddly motivated behavior.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wasn't name dropping. I just agreed with his take. You're probably the biggest blowhard on the forums in terms of your "knowledge" as you routinely criticize WC for his education vs yours, hypocrite.

The two notions aren't mutually exclusive, lil peeps. it was clear what you were doing: even the venerable Feynman has contempt for your field of study. gmafb. You can hardly put together an argument on merit. That is obvious.

I never discuss my education in particular. I talk about topics and subjects that I am well versed but i don't ever sit there and compare my EE with anyone else's background. At the same time when the papers he is criticizing are basing their predictions on PDE's and he criticizes them then I think its pretty fucking germane that he doesn't even know what a PDE is much less how to evaluate one.

There is a difference between understanding the background of an individual and where that puts him in relation to knowledge with the subject at hand and what you are doing. You are trying to make some weird hierarchy of worth with what you consider desirable fields of study and then everything else. I just think WC is an idiot.

[CuckingFunt]

I fail to understand how DMC just does not get that CF needs a Master of Art and an MLS/MIS to be an art librarian. They are both required for the job. That is an actual career.

I assume it's because DMC doesn't view art librarianship as a valuable or important career. By extension, the specific course of study to qualify me for such a career is an inherently frivolous exercise. From the start, his larger arguments that liberal arts degrees are a poor choice from a financial point of view, or that they don't lead to a career, or that they only appeal to lazy halfwits, has barely veiled the fact that he doesn't respect what I have chosen to do and that he doesn't respect me for having chosen to do it.

That, and the multicultural queer studies minor seems to really stick in his craw for some reason.

[Latarian Milton]

Women are held to lower standards. If a man minored in Queer Studies and mentioned it here he would be laughed out of the forum. When a woman does it it's cultural and necessary.
it's not at all a culture for females to take those humanity majors, it's just a trend in recent years when more and more females make their ways into colleges. women should never be given the access to school because a good woman's workshop is always in the kitchen and kitchen only. just because most females happen to choose majors like art, literature, history etc... and fuck up these majors it doesn't mean those majors are naturally secondary imho. in the universities of the 19th century there were no such majors like finance, accounting, engineering etc...

[DMC]

What difference does that make? Let me put it to you this way: harmonic analysis in both the continuous and discrete sense is easey peasey.

I was looking for this "multiple people" claim you made. Is that some Fuzzy math? So you're an RF engineer. Just say so.


You have pretty much abandoned the premise of your argument and have resorted to the degree epeen nonsense that your argument was based off of in the first place. Is your entire objective only to denigrate an entire group of people in general?

I abandoned all of it because I proved my point already. The rest is just the post game analysis by Fuzzy.


Now i am sure that you have an ME or something. Lord knows I have read enough of your autoeroticism about it but now your are going after the idea of a liberal arts degree. Not even with remote specificity. it's not even zero sum. I realize that you are not even going to address what you are saying on merits. It's just oddly motivated behavior.
And you are going to fret about it no doubt with your usual "look at me" blowhard antics as if that even causes me to raise an eyebrow. Ad homs are common place everywhere, yours are not special so spare me the righteous indignation.

[DMC]

The two notions aren't mutually exclusive, lil peeps. it was clear what you were doing: even the venerable Feynman has contempt for your field of study. gmafb. You can hardly put together an argument on merit. That is obvious.

I never discuss my education in particular. I talk about topics and subjects that I am well versed but i don't ever sit there and compare my EE with anyone else's background. At the same time when the papers he is criticizing are basing their predictions on PDE's and he criticizes them then I think its pretty fucking germane that he doesn't even know what a PDE is much less how to evaluate one.

Yeah yeah, you tell WC that he's the flunkie that does what you tell him to do, that you are the one making the checklists for him to follow. You're saying "I have a degree and you don't". Again, hypocrite.


There is a difference between understanding the background of an individual and where that puts him in relation to knowledge with the subject at hand and what you are doing. You are trying to make some weird hierarchy of worth with what you consider desirable fields of study and then everything else. I just think WC is an idiot.
Liberal Arts are the most desirable hands down, by the student. That's why the stats show that only half of those who finish with a liberal arts major actually started with one while over 90 percent of engineering majors who finish actually started in that major. No one transfers to engineering. It's a supply/demand thing in the work force, and all those people transferring to liberal arts majors have to compete with each other over a limited number of jobs, and those jobs don't pay well because of it. Liberal arts is therefore a shitty major. I did mention that I would love to major in something I don't need to earn money with, that would be much more desirable than the alternative. Fun classes are great, I would guess.

WC is an idiot. The world is full of them. That doesn't justify your actions. Is it your job to put every idiot in his place by beating him down with your degree? No. It's not mine either, I just do it as a hobby.

[DMC]

it's not at all a culture for females to take those humanity majors, it's just a trend in recent years when more and more females make their ways into colleges. women should never be given the access to school because a good woman's workshop is always in the kitchen and kitchen only. just because most females happen to choose majors like art, literature, history etc... and fuck up these majors it doesn't mean those majors are naturally secondary imho. in the universities of the 19th century there were no such majors like finance, accounting, engineering etc...

100 years ago you wouldn't be in school in America either so that's not a good reference point bro.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was looking for this "multiple people" claim you made. Is that some Fuzzy math? So you're an RF engineer. Just say so.

I abandoned all of it because I proved my point already. The rest is just the post game analysis by Fuzzy.

And you are going to fret about it no doubt with your usual "look at me" blowhard antics as if that even causes me to raise an eyebrow. Ad homs are common place everywhere, yours are not special so spare me the righteous indignation.

Your posts are a study in irony. 'I won but youre a blowhard' now? I'm righteous? Hypocrite much?

One thing is for certain you hae no interest in arguing based on merits. You don't even try. Multiple people just last night would be sbm, lm and myself while yourself doesn't represent a plural in any way shape or form.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah yeah, you tell WC that he's the flunkie that does what you tell him to do, that you are the one making the checklists for him to follow. You're saying "I have a degree and you don't". Again, hypocrite.

I am talking about occupation and not education and again, this had severe implications on his credibility to comment at the discussion at hand. You have even discussed this at length yourself. It's clear that he has no background You've turned this discussion about whether or someone went to school into my degree is better than your degree. You try to apint me as doing the same thing but you lack an understanding of the idea of approach.


Liberal Arts are the most desirable hands down, by the student. That's why the stats show that only half of those who finish with a liberal arts major actually started with one while over 90 percent of engineering majors who finish actually started in that major. No one transfers to engineering. It's a supply/demand thing in the work force, and all those people transferring to liberal arts majors have to compete with each other over a limited number of jobs, and those jobs don't pay well because of it. Liberal arts is therefore a shitty major. I did mention that I would love to major in something I don't need to earn money with, that would be much more desirable than the alternative. Fun classes are great, I would guess.

WC is an idiot. The world is full of them. That doesn't justify your actions. Is it your job to put every idiot in his place by beating him down with your degree? No. It's not mine either, I just do it as a hobby.

I don't see how that implies causation. I transferred to engineering once I realized that I did not like biochem or rather the lab work associated with it. Engineering is fun for me as is math in general. All your presumptions are self centered and small minded. And you are supporting a bandwagon fallacy or the inverse of one. Few do it so it must be coveted. All you are doing here is demonstrating that cash is your metric for 'desirability.' You do absolutely nothing to imply causation and everything that you are a failed elitist.

One thing that i do find sad is that your measure of 'desirability' is financial. Why didn't you just leave it at the post of average starting salaries. You don't even apply the principles of the disciplines you are espousing. You talk about 'liberal arts' or 'Feynman says' instead of the inaccuracies inherent within the approach. if I was trying to make your argument then i would talk about soft sciences like psychiatry where they design drugs around poor at best understanding and the inherent risks or wholisitc economic theories and it's litany of failures. But at the end of the day I personally find the pursuit of truth to be the most desirable pursuit.

That's the thing though i don't think that you are as base as you claim. Either that or you are obviously but I hope for the best. What i get instead of what you are claiming is more of an existential crisis. You probably have a number of experiences you could play off of as to why an empirical science is better but you resort to money? Just sounds to me like other justifications have not been much satisfaction to you.

Talk about how engineering is where the rubber meets the road in terms of the realization of the rational constructs of math or physics is the closest approximation of reality as it relates to the mind. Because when it comes down to it if the best you can come up with for desirability is it's difficult and makes you more money that rings absolutely hollow to me.

I did like the part where you claim winning in a discussion of what is the most desirable personal pursuit though.

[DMC]

Why did you write a book on your feelings about my opinions? Did I touch a nerve? It is what it is, I didn't make it that way. I just pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why did you write a book on your feelings about my opinions? Did I touch a nerve? It is what it is, I didn't make it that way. I just pointed it out. Don't shoot the messenger.

:lol more elitist fail from the failed elitist

It's called being articulate. I try and be intelligent and thoughtful. You should try it, yappy.

[DMC]

:lol more elitist fail from the failed elitist

It's called being articulate. I try and be intelligent and thoughtful. You should try it, yappy.

Shouldn't you be off trying to be interesting, creative, ironic and saving bisexuals from the truth?

Wait.... nm

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Shouldn't you be off trying to be interesting, creative, ironic and saving bisexuals from the truth?

Wait.... nm

:lol butthurt and yappy

[DMC]

:lol butthurt and yappy
Unoriginal PowderPuff Girl seeks Google Maps Triangulation Expert for exchanging of bright ideas and ankle biting cards.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Unoriginal PowderPuff Girl seeks Google Maps Triangulation Expert for exchanging of bright ideas and ankle biting cards.

:lol still butthurt and yappy

FuzzyLumpkins is not one of the PPG.

:lol hating on me because I enjoyed the show back in the day.

you are going to have to try harder than that.

Seriously though do you have any justification for the empirical sciences beyond financial considerations?

[DMC]

Yes. We aren't living in caves any more. I love art, love music, love literature, but we advance through science. When shit hits the fan, no one is going to be trying to find a librarian or most liberal arts related professionals. They will try to find doctors, engineers, tradesmen and scientists. Sure, individually our lives are enriched through the arts, however they are, as I described before, luxuries, not necessities. Some may cross function, however for the most part all of the "WTF" degrees are in liberal arts. You talk about a science degree and it's unnecessary to even discuss it's usefulness. You have to do some wrangling to equate many of the arts degrees to anything useful.

By "useful" I mean anything other than making you feel better about yourself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So when the world collapses you might be important. That's interesting if you think about it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i would counter your assertion that it comes down to what people value. and not some objective proof.

it's the difference between the Romans and the Greeks. The Romans were known for their engineering and being a void of philosophy and art. Many people find the Greeks more significant for leaving a mark AND contributing to the arts and philosophy.

I would also point to the collapse of the Roman empire. I would argue that the monastic orders that preserved ancient texts were more important to the recovery of mankind then the guys that knew how to make aqueducts and arches.

[DMC]

i would counter your assertion that it comes down to what people value. and not some objective proof.

What people (plural as in other people) value is reflected in the demand. What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle. Some put the pursuit of dreams ahead of the sustaining part and some never had to consider sustaining a lifestyle as they had it in the bag from inheritance so now they are just perusing in a Jethro Bodine like manner, wonder what they will become today, street car conductor or brain surgeon.


it's the difference between the Romans and the Greeks. The Romans were known for their engineering and being a void of philosophy and art. Many people find the Greeks more significant for leaving a mark AND contributing to the arts and philosophy.

As a nation perhaps, and to those who look back (historians, another liberal art) but to those cutting the path to new designs and ideas, cures and such, the arts are just a diversion.


I would also point to the collapse of the Roman empire. I would argue that the monastic orders that preserved ancient texts were more important to the recovery of mankind then the guys that knew how to make aqueducts.
Perhaps, but what was in those texts that was important? Mankind would have died quickly were it not for science. Plagues would have killed us all had we sat around thinking of things to argue about and writing plays.

[CuckingFunt]

Yes. We aren't living in caves any more. I love art, love music, love literature, but we advance through science. When shit hits the fan, no one is going to be trying to find a librarian or most liberal arts related professionals. They will try to find doctors, engineers, tradesmen and scientists. Sure, individually our lives are enriched through the arts, however they are, as I described before, luxuries, not necessities. Some may cross function, however for the most part all of the "WTF" degrees are in liberal arts. You talk about a science degree and it's unnecessary to even discuss it's usefulness. You have to do some wrangling to equate many of the arts degrees to anything useful.

As you have been throughout this thread, you are once again arguing your own individual values as if they're universal. They're not.

I, personally, find the arts to be absolutely essential specifically because of they way they enrich our lives and our culture. And I know that I'm not alone in that thought. However, those are my personal values. I would never even attempt to argue that my point of view is, or even should be, seen as objective truth.

Nor would I need to for the purpose of this thread. Your original argument was that liberal arts degrees are easy and that they don't lead to jobs. That's factually inaccurate. Point blank. And several people have pointed that out to you in this very thread. I make no claims of being the poster child for liberal arts education, but using my own experience/choices as an example, my graduate program was incredibly rigorous required just as much of my hard work and dedication that a science or engineering degree would have. Additionally, the choices I've made have been because I early on identified a specific career I wanted to pursue and have since been taking the steps necessary to qualify me for that career. I'm not pursuing the liberal arts or an MLIS because I'm floundering or because I lack the drive to do something else.

If you think I've made dumb choices or that I've picked a dumb career, you're entitled to think so. But all you've done so far in this thread is think so. You've done absolutely zero to effectively argue the pointlessness of my degrees or of any other liberal arts degrees/career choices.

[DMC]

So when the world collapses you might be important. That's interesting if you think about it.

I'll never be important on a global scale, but the sciences certainly will be. In fact, a box of .22 rounds would be worth more than a pound of gold. That's a bit on the extreme end, but salary reflects the importance of the role for most things. I think teachers are more important than their salaries reflect and coaches should make less, but from a supply/demand perspective it is what it is.

[DMC]

As you have been throughout this thread, you are once again arguing your own individual values as if they're universal. They're not.

When my personal opinion is asked, it doesn't need to be universal to include it in my response. However philosophy never cured a disease or repaired a wound and it never found better ways to farm, or made better structures in which to live. If you had a child and that child became ill, would you seek out an artist or would you go to a doctor. Personal desire to learn is one thing, but don't equate that to global value. Many economies cannot even support their own people so they are starving. Do you suppose philosophy and art will help? Should someone from Queer Studies go over there and explain how homosexuality and heterosexuality can coexist in harmony or should someone show them how to manage crops, treat the wounded and deal in pre and post natal care? Just curious.


I, personally, find the arts to be absolutely essential specifically because of they way they enrich our lives and our culture. And I know that I'm not alone in that thought. However, those are my personal values. I would never even attempt to argue that my point of view is, or even should be, seen as objective truth.

Sure, and dessert enriches our meal. It's not going to be the main course. Objective truth is that we can find time for arts but not without science. The reverse is not true. Without science we are too busy trying to stay alive and burying our plague ridden dead.


Nor would I need to for the purpose of this thread. Your original argument was that liberal arts degrees are easy and that they don't lead to jobs. That's factually inaccurate. Point blank. And several people have pointed that out to you in this very thread. I make no claims of being the poster child for liberal arts education, but using my own experience/choices as an example, my graduate program was incredibly rigorous required just as much of my hard work and dedication that a science or engineering degree would have. Additionally, the choices I've made have been because I early on identified a specific career I wanted to pursue and have since been taking the steps necessary to qualify me for that career. I'm not pursuing the liberal arts or an MLIS because I'm floundering or because I lack the drive to do something else.

Not easy, shitty. I said they are shitty and they are. They are certainly easier than science degrees. Sure you can cherry pick one liberal arts degree and one science degree and try to argue those, but the fact that people drop into liberal arts and out of engineering and science degrees needs to be examined and at least considered as a sign of difficulty in science, and that the liberal arts, though not easy compared to doing nothing, are easier for 50% of the graduates who dropped in along the way (not considering that some did so out of desire instead of necessity).



If you think I've made dumb choices or that I've picked a dumb career, you're entitled to think so. But all you've done so far in this thread is think so. You've done absolutely zero to effectively argue the pointlessness of my degrees or of any other liberal arts degrees/career choices.
I didn't say you made dumb choices. I said you have shitty degrees. There's nothing dumb about not wanting to work in science. Hell, I would prefer to do something flighty and self serving because I am a greedy person, but alas I must make a living.



edited quote tags.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What people (plural as in other people) value is reflected in the demand. What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle. Some put the pursuit of dreams ahead of the sustaining part and some never had to consider sustaining a lifestyle as they had it in the bag from inheritance so now they are just perusing in a Jethro Bodine like manner, wonder what they will become today, street car conductor or brain surgeon.

As a nation perhaps, and to those who look back (historians, another liberal art) but to those cutting the path to new designs and ideas, cures and such, the arts are just a diversion.

Perhaps, but what was in those texts that was important? Mankind would have died quickly were it not for science. Plagues would have killed us all had we sat around thinking of things to argue about and writing plays.

All you have done is shown the significance of historians: another liberal art.

And despite the greatness of the Romans technological achievements of the Romans the plagues did kill us. what do the historians say: 1/4 of the population of Europe died duing both the pneumonic and bubonic plagues.

We were doing neither the liberal arts nor the sciences. Both played a role in the recovery though.

I am trying to find your idea of 'individual values' beyond sustaining a lifestyle.

So far we have you will help if there is a collapse which is just sustaining a lifestyle.

And I would also discuss some of the B.S. degrees that have very little pragmatic purpose. Take particle physics. One quote that will always stick out to me was of Leon Lederman speaking before the Congressional Budget Committee in the mid-1980s explaining to them why the Waxahachie particle collider was worth building. He said in response to a question in how the thing would further civilization as it had no real pragmatic value. I don't remember the exact quote but he responded that it was because the pursuit of such knowledge is what made a civilization worth having. I think he is right.

There are others, I was reading a paper that described how a mathematician had proven some equation held true for all prime numbers and according to scientific american it wsa some significant advance in number theory. To you that's worthless compared to something that might get you a $500/hr consulting fee.

Just seems artificial, stark and cynical to me.

[silverblk mystix]

DMC: "I am so proud to be a trained monkey and I am a more sophisticated trained monkey than other trained monkeys!!!!"

[CuckingFunt]

Objective truth is that we can find time for arts but not without science. The reverse is not true.

Have I at any point argued against the importance of the sciences?

I still don't understand why you're so attached to the idea that only one of these things can be important at a time.


Not easy, shitty. I said they are shitty and they are. They are certainly easier than science degrees. Sure you can cherry pick one liberal arts degree and one science degree and try to argue those, but the fact that people drop into liberal arts and out of engineering and science degrees needs to be examined and at least considered as a sign of difficulty in science, and that the liberal arts, though not easy compared to doing nothing, are easier for 50% of the graduates who dropped in along the way (not considering that some did so out of desire instead of necessity).

The assumption that all, or even a majority, of the people who abandon the sciences for a liberal arts degree do so because the latter is easier is an awfully big one.


I didn't say you made dumb choices. I said you have shitty degrees. There's nothing dumb about not wanting to work in science. Hell, I would prefer to do something flighty and self serving because I am a greedy person, but alas I must make a living.

You're not very good at veiled insults.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

DMC: "I am so proud to be a trained monkey and I am a more sophisticated trained monkey than other trained monkeys!!!!"
Do trained monkeys usually own their own business?

[silverblk mystix]

Do trained monkeys usually own their own business?

Absolutely, you can train a monkey to do anything-even run a business. Other business owners are trained monkeys too. I am sure DMC would try to brag on being trained to run his own business and be a better trained monkey-business owner than other trained monkey business owners.


:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You perform cavity searches for a living and call other people trained monkeys?


el oh el

[silverblk mystix]

You perform cavity searches for a living and call other people trained monkeys?


el oh el



We are all trained monkeys regardless of what you imagine I do or not.

No one is exempt. Everyone was trained/educated somewhere in some field of study or another it doesn't really mean shit and to brag and try to act superior is the funniest joke of all.

[Latarian Milton]

major doesn't matter much in todays economy when most graduates would end up working at starbucks or other deadend shitty jobs like that. if your majored in engineering but end up finding a job that's not at all related to your major after graduation, it's then safe to say your school years (4yrs or even longer) were basically wasted because your knowledge in engineering is useless in your daily life. at least an art major would enrich your life and you can continue to study this subject as well as your life the way you were taught to

[DMC]

Have I at any point argued against the importance of the sciences?

Why would you?


I still don't understand why you're so attached to the idea that only one of these things can be important at a time.

Again you're inferring things I did not say. You seem to be very much attached to that method. I never said the two are mutually exclusive. I said YOU have shitty degrees.


The assumption that all, or even a majority, of the people who abandon the sciences for a liberal arts degree do so because the latter is easier is an awfully big one.
I said as much but of course you prefer the liberal approach to quoting which is just to infer anything you like from a statement you just quoted. (hint: check the statement in parenthesis).


You're not very good at veiled insults.
Somewhere along the way you took a class on being offended. The terms "flighty and self serving" describe things I would prefer to do, yet somehow that was about you. Get over yourself already.

[DMC]

major doesn't matter much in todays economy when most graduates would end up working at starbucks or other deadend shitty jobs like that. if your majored in engineering but end up finding a job that's not at all related to your major after graduation, it's then safe to say your school years (4yrs or even longer) were basically wasted because your knowledge in engineering is useless in your daily life. at least an art major would enrich your life and you can continue to study this subject as well as your life the way you were taught to

Ok, if you received an M.D. and ended up working at Starbucks, your degree was pretty much wasted. I don't know any engineers who graduated and went to work at Starbucks. You can continue to study engineering. I don't get what you're trying to say because it doesn't make sense.

[Latarian Milton]

What people (plural as in other people) value is reflected in the demand. What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle. Some put the pursuit of dreams ahead of the sustaining part and some never had to consider sustaining a lifestyle as they had it in the bag from inheritance so now they are just perusing in a Jethro Bodine like manner, wonder what they will become today, street car conductor or brain surgeon.

As a nation perhaps, and to those who look back (historians, another liberal art) but to those cutting the path to new designs and ideas, cures and such, the arts are just a diversion.

Perhaps, but what was in those texts that was important? Mankind would have died quickly were it not for science. Plagues would have killed us all had we sat around thinking of things to argue about and writing plays.
good point, say if a lifestyle is the only thing you pursue in your life, you have basically no individual value

[DMC]

good point, say if a lifestyle is the only thing you pursue in your life, you have basically no individual value

Define individual value.

[DMC]

We are all trained monkeys regardless of what you imagine I do or not.

No one is exempt. Everyone was trained/educated somewhere in some field of study or another it doesn't really mean shit and to brag and try to act superior is the funniest joke of all.

You really have no place in this conversation. You should only be here if we were talking about 4 month certificates.

[DMC]

All you have done is shown the significance of historians: another liberal art.

And despite the greatness of the Romans technological achievements of the Romans the plagues did kill us. what do the historians say: 1/4 of the population of Europe died duing both the pneumonic and bubonic plagues.

We were doing neither the liberal arts nor the sciences. Both played a role in the recovery though.

I am trying to find your idea of 'individual values' beyond sustaining a lifestyle.

So far we have you will help if there is a collapse which is just sustaining a lifestyle.

And I would also discuss some of the B.S. degrees that have very little pragmatic purpose. Take particle physics. One quote that will always stick out to me was of Leon Lederman speaking before the Congressional Budget Committee in the mid-1980s explaining to them why the Waxahachie particle collider was worth building. He said in response to a question in how the thing would further civilization as it had no real pragmatic value. I don't remember the exact quote but he responded that it was because the pursuit of such knowledge is what made a civilization worth having. I think he is right.

There are others, I was reading a paper that described how a mathematician had proven some equation held true for all prime numbers and according to scientific american it wsa some significant advance in number theory. To you that's worthless compared to something that might get you a $500/hr consulting fee.

Just seems artificial, stark and cynical to me.

You just wrote a novel on your presumptions of my thinking. I know the value of numbers. Every liberal arts major here would suck a donkey dick at high noon at Dillards and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd for 500 an hour wages. For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job. You got a degree in engineering and I would bet you don't volunteer your time at your place of employment, and that you haven't turned down a raise. Both of you could have simply taken classes to enhance your understanding of the human mind, or to learn and appreciate fine arts and music but you both are trying to further your careers.

Again, shit loads of righteous indignation from hypocrites. Oh evil man wants to make money with his degree... shame shame.


Oh and I like how you say "so far we have"

You need to stand on your own here. No legriding.

[Latarian Milton]

Ok, if you received an M.D. and ended up working at Starbucks, your degree was pretty much wasted. I don't know any engineers who graduated and went to work at Starbucks. You can continue to study engineering. I don't get what you're trying to say because it doesn't make sense.
you must be still living in the old ages when assholes could get well paid even w/o college degrees. you can go back to school anytime but i doubt you can still remember the jargon in engineering after a few years working at starbucks tbh

[silverblk mystix]

You really have no place in this conversation. You should only be here if we were talking about 4 month certificates.

Shows how much you really know.

DMC : "Only certain trained monkeys can join in this thread!"

[DMC]

you must be still living in the old ages when assholes could get well paid even w/o college degrees. you can go back to school anytime but i doubt you can still remember the jargon in engineering after a few years working at starbucks tbh

Working at a job other than your major has the same effect on all majors. Go to any Starbucks and ask those working if they have a degree. If you find one with a degree, find out if it's in a science or arts field.

[Latarian Milton]

Define individual value.

by your own definition of individual value: What the individual values is the ability to pursue dreams while sustaining a lifestyle.

sustaining a lifestyle is a basic condition on which you can pursue your dreams but it makes no sense to put it upside down. if your a engineer, what your dream is supposed to be is becoming one of the bests in your profession instead of just sustaining a lifestyle with your handsome paycheck. its like you have to eat to sustain your life, but eating shouldn't be the only goal of life for a human being imho

[DMC]

Shows how much you really know.

DMC : "Only certain trained monkeys can join in this thread!"

You assume that because you live a shitty life and work in a fucking prison manually cornholing sex offenders that somehow you're something to behold. You're really just a fat low forehead having be@ner with no aspirations to be anything significant.

[DMC]

sustaining a lifestyle is a basic condition on which you can pursue your dreams but it makes no sense to put it upside down. if your a engineer, what your dream is supposed to be is becoming one of the bests in your profession instead of just sustaining a lifestyle with your handsome paycheck. its like you have to eat to sustain your life, but eating shouldn't be the only goal of life for a human being imho

There's difference in what an individual values and the value of an individual (as you used the term above). You're equivocating terms. Go back and tell me the definition of individual value.

[Latarian Milton]

Working at a job other than your major has the same effect on all majors. Go to any Starbucks and ask those working if they have a degree. If you find one with a degree, find out if it's in a science or arts field.
not really imho. if your an engineer but have failed to find an engineering-related job right after graduation, your forgetting the whole shit real soon because you can't practice engineering at home or by yourself, you need an engineering job in order to consolidate your knowledge in engineering imho. it sucks to work at a deadend job when you clearly deserve a better one with the knowledge & degree you have, but at least a "queer" major gives you sort of an excuse for it imho

[Latarian Milton]

There's difference in what an individual values and the value of an individual (as you used the term above). You're equivocating terms. Go back and tell me the definition of individual value.
i might be wrong but the individual value of a person shouldn't be measured by what he gets, but what he gives. i know some niggas in my neighborhood who make good money selling drugs but i never consider them persons of high individual values, they're worthless citizens actuallly.

[silverblk mystix]

You assume that because you live a shitty life and work in a fucking prison manually cornholing sex offenders that somehow you're something to behold. You're really just a fat low forehead having be@ner with no aspirations to be anything significant.


You wouldn't have any idea what it even means to "be anything significant" if it bit you in the ass.

[CuckingFunt]

Again you're inferring things I did not say. You seem to be very much attached to that method. I never said the two are mutually exclusive. I said YOU have shitty degrees.

Yes. You said that I have shitty degrees. You then justified that assertion by stating that my degrees are shitty because the sciences are important and the arts are not.


Somewhere along the way you took a class on being offended. The terms "flighty and self serving" describe things I would prefer to do, yet somehow that was about you. Get over yourself already.

This thread has shown that you're far more obsessed with my education than I am. So, by all means, follow your own advice and get over it already.

Incidentally, your comment was very clearly intended as an insult. And it has little to do with the use of the terms "flighty" or "self serving."


For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job.

My degrees are in pursuit of the job I want, but the job I want isn't in the pursuit of money. I would assume that is also the case for many of the people who pursue careers in the sciences.

I would hope so, at least. Otherwise it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to in search of a paycheck.

[DMC]

You wouldn't have any idea what it even means to "be anything significant" if it bit you in the ass.

As long as it didn't try to pull a crack filled balloon from my ass I'd be ok with that.

[DMC]

Yes. You said that I have shitty degrees. You then justified that assertion by stating that my degrees are shitty because the sciences are important and the arts are not.

The arts are important in the same way a child's finger paintings hanging on your refrigerator are important. The sciences are important in the same way the child's inhaler is important.


This thread has shown that you're far more obsessed with my education than I am. That was apparent from the onset.

So, by all means, follow your own advice and get over it already.
I have gotten over it. Now I am just toying around with you.


Incidentally, your comment was very clearly intended as an insult. And it has little to do with the use of the terms "flighty" or "self serving."

I was referring to my desires. You find creative ways to be offended. You're a textbook liberal.


My degrees are in pursuit of the job I want, but the job I want isn't in the pursuit of money. I would assume that is also the case for many of the people who pursue careers in the sciences.

Can't you perform a task without needing it to be a job? If I wasn't in pursuit of money I'd be dragging a self made popper along the banks of the Amazon river looking for Peacock bass. If I have to be at work, I might as well do what I like, and that might as well pay me as much as possible. Most men don't have the luxury of just getting jobs that just complete them. They need to be providers. You obviously do not need to be a provider.


I would hope so, at least. Otherwise it seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to in search of a paycheck.
You have to have some interest in your job else you won't make much money because you won't be good enough at it to even keep your job. Given the fact that you even have a job and that you did a lot of otherwise worthless shit, I'd say your courses were geared to furthering your career. You can say that's not for the money but would you settle for entry level pay?

[silverblk mystix]

As long as it didn't try to pull a crack filled balloon from my ass I'd be ok with that.


I see they are still training monkeys to be racist and ignorant. Brilliant!


Nothing has changed.

[DMC]

i might be wrong but the individual value of a person shouldn't be measured by what he gets, but what he gives. i know some niggas in my neighborhood who make good money selling drugs but i never consider them persons of high individual values, they're worthless citizens actuallly.

You haven't defined the term. You're just giving examples.

What is the value of an individual? If I make more money, I pay more taxes (theoretically). If I pay more taxes, I provide for other people. If I provide for other people, I am pulling more than just my share. On the flip side, if I take out a loan and get a job that doesn't pay enough to make loan payments so I default, I am now taking away from the pot and pulling less than my share. I probably am not paying taxes since my expenses outweigh my income. I have become dependent. The purpose of higher education is to become independent both mentally and financially. Eventually education is about getting the tools you need to be successful in the world. If you get the wrong tools, you aren't going to succeed. A HS grad with no college is less of a burden than someone who got a worthless degree and owes thousands in guaranteed loans and cannot make the payments. At least the HS student hasn't bilked the economy just yet.

Granted not all arts degrees end up being financially worthless, but the BA degrees don't do much. You need a Masters at least in most liberal arts to be even qualified for many positions that freshmen students might think a BA will get. How many psychology majors think they are going to be psychologists only to learn their BA in psychology barely qualifies them to be a kindergarten PE teacher?

[DMC]

I see they are still training monkeys to be racist and ignorant. Brilliant!


Nothing has changed.
Nothing racist about the term "be@ner". It's not about the entire Latino race, just Hispanics.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You just wrote a novel on your presumptions of my thinking. I know the value of numbers. Every liberal arts major here would suck a donkey dick at high noon at Dillards and give you 10 minutes to draw a crowd for 500 an hour wages. For some reason you pretend to believe that the degrees in liberal arts only go to those with aspirations beyond money. Even CF said that her degree is for her job. You got a degree in engineering and I would bet you don't volunteer your time at your place of employment, and that you haven't turned down a raise. Both of you could have simply taken classes to enhance your understanding of the human mind, or to learn and appreciate fine arts and music but you both are trying to further your careers.

Again, shit loads of righteous indignation from hypocrites. Oh evil man wants to make money with his degree... shame shame.


Oh and I like how you say "so far we have"

You need to stand on your own here. No legriding.


It was a few paragraphs. You have no idea what goes into writing a novel apparently. another liberal art.

You're the one arguing for the superiority of empirical science. I am waiting for some justification of worth beyond making money. You have yet to give one other than being of worth after some hypothetical collapse. I am not making any assumptions. You simply have not stated anything that you find worthwhile other than making a buck.

I also never said that I do not value financial considerations. I cannot speak for funt but i don't believe that she says that either. The difference is that that is not all that is valued. I absolutely love how math is representative of the real world like with prime numbers and the fine structure constant. I love how the various rational mathematical constructs are the single best predictor of the future that there is. I am fascinated with the concept of orthogonality as it relates to complex numbers in Euler's Equations. That may make me somewhat of a pedantic fuck but I love it for what it is in and of itself.

that is what i have been trying to get at. why do you want to pursue empirical science other than financial considerations. Not that financial considerations are not important but do you value them in any other way. You simply have not even come close to doing that. it just seems that you like money and the prestige that it thinks it gives you. If there is something more then say it. I cannot guess.

And as for the 'we have' comment it is just a figure of speech. All we have from you so far is... I never write for just myself. When I write i am also speaking to the reader as well. It's a writing technique designed to keep the reader engaged and include them in the argument. Empiricism is not the only means of persuasion.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nothing racist about the term "be@ner". It's not about the entire Latino race, just Hispanics.

Channeling WC I see.

[DMC]

Channeling WC I see.

No, razzing SBM.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, razzing SBM.

The two notions are not mutually exclusive. You can both use the same logic as WC and troll at the same time. Saying racist shit and then cowering behind 'trollololol' is real stand up I must say.

[DMC]

It was a few paragraphs. You have no idea what goes into writing a novel apparently. another liberal art.

I'm a published author though no novels.


You're the one arguing for the superiority of empirical science. I am waiting for some justification of worth beyond making money. You have yet to give one other than being of worth after some hypothetical collapse. I am not making any assumptions. You simply have not stated anything that you find worthwhile other than making a buck.

So you're waiting for me to say something you feel is a second reason why science is more important than art, or basically you want me to offer you something. If you really needed that you'd not chosen science as a profession.


I also never said that I do not value financial considerations. I cannot speak for funt but i don't believe that she says that either. The difference is that that is not all that is valued. I absolutely love how math is representative of the real world like with prime numbers and the fine structure constant. I love how the various rational mathematical constructs are the single best predictor of the future that there is. I am fascinated with the concept of orthogonality as it relates to complex numbers in Euler's Equations. That may make me somewhat of a pedantic fuck but I love it for what it is in and of itself. Yeah sure. There are satisfying aspects of my work, but that's only because I found something both lucrative and personally satisfying. If you don't want/need money, you can do whatever you wish obviously.


that is what i have been trying to get at. why do you want to pursue empirical science other than financial considerations. Not that financial considerations are not important but do you value them in any other way. You simply have not even come close to doing that. it just seems that you like money and the prestige that it thinks it gives you. If there is something more then say it. I cannot guess.

What you are trying to establish is a common ground between science and art that has to do with desire and personal satisfaction, but that's a red herring in comparison to my point in this thread.

And as for the 'we have' comment it is just a figure of speech. All we have from you so far is... I never write for just myself. When I write i am also speaking to the reader as well. It's a writing technique designed to keep the reader engaged and include them in the argument. Empiricism is not the only means of persuasion.
It's more like having the other readers on your side, otherwise how can you say "we have you will..."? The terms "we" and "you" are mutually exclusive when used in that format. I cannot be both part of "we" and a separate entity unless you were my therapist which you are not. The unassuming way to approach that is not to assume you have a forum audience who's backing you up and who's hanging on your every word. You are not the spokesperson here for anyone but you, so when you address me, make it man to man, not "we" to "you".

[DMC]

The two notions are not mutually exclusive. You can both use the same logic as WC and troll at the same time. Saying racist shit and then cowering behind 'trollololol' is real stand up I must say.

Since you're not my hero I am not interested in what you find to be "stand up". After reading some of your self promoting drivel, I am not sure you have a handle on the concept anyhow.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Still cannot name a single thing. That is sad and not in a condescending manner either. It's unfortunate.

And of course you don't care what i think. You don't care what anyone else thinks either. I don't self promote beyond trying to demonstrate that I know what I am talking about. You talk more about me than I do.

And while you may have written a technical article at some point is clear you have no idea how to write creative nor compelling works. The use of the second person plural is a writing device in persuasive writing. It's a widely used rhetorical device and has no assumption that my reader is on my side. It is an attempt to engage and not a presumption that we are.

Also you are hardly the only person that i intend to read this. Others have read it and that is indicated by use of descriptive language that I have used in their own writing. i can think of few better indications that my message is getting across to others. I actually note this often. That is an example of self promotion if you want to label one.

What I find interesting is that you only view my technique through your own lens and never consider what anyone else might think of the approach.

[DMC]

Still cannot name a single thing. That is sad and not in a condescending manner either. It's unfortunate.

It's unfortunate that I am not taking the bait? Anything I've mentioned you've ignored and pretended I didn't say it. I can see your setup coming a mile away.


And of course you don't care what i think. You don't care what anyone else thinks either. I don't self promote beyond trying to demonstrate that I know what I am talking about. You talk more about me than I do.

No, you fluff up your zealous self righteous act with "it saddens me" and "unfortunate" and the like. If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't need a novel to get it across. You also wouldn't attempt such banal traps as you've been attempting here in hopes I'm WC under a different username.

You talk plenty about yourself, for example you wouldn't mention your degree but you had to go into the esoteric aspect of your work in hopes of impressing someone who never heard of it.


And while you may have written a technical article at some point is clear you have no idea how to write creative nor compelling works. The use of the second person plural is a writing device in persuasive writing. It's a widely used rhetorical device and has no assumption that my reader is on my side. It is an attempt to engage and not a presumption that we are.
My published writing was about the election (not saying which). I have authored technical articles and such, who hasn't? I wouldn't call that "published' just because it ends up on some user manual.


Also you are hardly the only person that i intend to read this. Others have read it and that is indicated by use of descriptive language that I have used in their own writing. i can think of few better indications that my message is getting across to others. I actually note this often. That is an example of self promotion if you want to label one.

I don't care who you intend to read it, you're responding to me. The proper form for your style would be to have a formal debate with a moderator and all the little response nuances that go with formal debate. The problem is that would require to either argue for or against something as just holding up a scorecard doesn't fly well.


What I find interesting is that you only view my technique through your own lens and never consider what anyone else might think of the approach.
When you respond to them, that's their problem not mine. When you respond to me and act like you have an audience, you're pretty much pomp and circumstance and that's about the weight I give it. Don't expect thoughtful responses when you come across like some jr moderator.

And lol at "my technique" as if PowderPuff girl has a technique. Isn't it ironic?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What setup? This is boring and all you are doing is dissembling. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

[DMC]

What setup? This is boring and all you are doing is dissembling. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

lol

[Latarian Milton]

You haven't defined the term. You're just giving examples.

What is the value of an individual? If I make more money, I pay more taxes (theoretically). If I pay more taxes, I provide for other people. If I provide for other people, I am pulling more than just my share. On the flip side, if I take out a loan and get a job that doesn't pay enough to make loan payments so I default, I am now taking away from the pot and pulling less than my share. I probably am not paying taxes since my expenses outweigh my income. I have become dependent. The purpose of higher education is to become independent both mentally and financially. Eventually education is about getting the tools you need to be successful in the world. If you get the wrong tools, you aren't going to succeed. A HS grad with no college is less of a burden than someone who got a worthless degree and owes thousands in guaranteed loans and cannot make the payments. At least the HS student hasn't bilked the economy just yet.

Granted not all arts degrees end up being financially worthless, but the BA degrees don't do much. You need a Masters at least in most liberal arts to be even qualified for many positions that freshmen students might think a BA will get. How many psychology majors think they are going to be psychologists only to learn their BA in psychology barely qualifies them to be a kindergarten PE teacher?
$ ain't the only goal of education, although it's been tilting towards that end in recent years, it doesn't mean that is the way it should be imho. also i don't get why some students would rather take the loans and/or study remotely from their homes when they could've saved alot of $ by attending a local school & living with parents, getting in debt ain't gonna be nice especially when your at a relatively young age and student loan should be only used as a last resort tbh. if you live frugally through your 4yrs college life you won't have to spend too much other than the tuition imho

and even if you study engineering or things that you think are gonna be useful in the workforce, you'll still have a hard time looking for a decent job that exactly fits your profession when you graduate. the economy is shrinking and jobs that require skills/knowledge have taken the major brunt of economic crisis imho. as a new college graduate w/o much working experience you also needs at least a Master to get even an entry-level job in engineering, finances etc... if your an ambitious young lad with a college degree who doesn't have a family or a bitch to feed, i don't see no point for you in working on a shitty job instead of continuing to learn something new and getting better prepared for a prosperous recovered economy a few years from now tbh

[FuzzyLumpkins]

as a new college graduate w/o much working experience you also needs at least a Master to get even an entry-level job in engineering, finances etc...

While i certainly agree with your overall sentiment this part just doesn't bear out. There have been several studies that show getting a masters in engineering is not going to get you a net income greater than just entering the pool straight out with a BS. You will lose more money paying for the masters than you will just taking the job a BS qualifies you for.

[DMC]

The engineering degree grad doesn't have nearly as bleak an outlook at some here have painted. In fact, they have a very good outlook, and LT, they don't yet have a profession so their options are wide open. If you cannot find a job with EE from a decent school, you're really not looking.

[AmericanPsycho]

I don't have a degree but I am in sales and make over 100K.

[silverblk mystix]

I don't have a degree but I am in sales and make over 100K.


Good for you, but --put that coffee down---coffee is for closers!

[m>s]

lmfao what the fuck is "queer studies"

[DMC]

Queer studies is something you take, if you're female, to understand why you prefer a face full of carpet over a tube steak. If you're a guy, it's just a way to find dick.