Were we wrong about Harden?

[AussieFanKurt]

His statline is pretty amazing

[djohn2oo8]

37/12/5

[djohn2oo8]

Its against Detroit, but still...

[lefty]

Stat padding vs a shitty team...

[Double-Up]

He's a baller...plain and simple. The best part is he's only gonna get better from here.

[daspurs]

Stop with the shitty team excuse. Dude is for real.

[purplengold]

when he does that shit a few times against good defenders, then we doubters wrong. need good sample sizes

[Kai]

Great start. I'll post the highlights when Clutch puts them up.

[Venti Quattro]

What we can say right now is he did pretty amazing in his first game as a Rocket.

[AussieFanKurt]

Someone can bump this thread when he dominates a really good defender, regardless he's played a good game.

[Lincoln]

lol dipshit spurfan

[Venti Quattro]

#Beardsanity is trending on Twitter. lol

[Kai]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A6lMCiVCQAE0QtK.jpg:large

HOORAY BEARD

[Latarian Milton]

bloating stats on a shitty team doesn't mean much imho

[Samuel Eto'o]

Anything that gets rocketfan feeling confident again is good in my book.

[Kidd K]

I'm usually one of the first people to talk about "let's see how they do against good teams", but you can't deny that Harden's ceiling is higher than most of you were willing to admit. These are impressive numbers to be putting up on a team he's barely had any practice with. There's more factors than just playing a bad team.

Harden was allowed to have more responsibility for a longer period of time during this game than he was in OKC, and he's already eclipsed his career high in assists by 33% in his first game, and was only 3 short of his career high in points at the same time.

Just goes to show, the only reason Harden's stats weren't already impressive is because he wans't allowed to carry enough load to get those numbers. OKC went all in on Westbrook and didn't give Harden enough of a chance. I may have been in the minority who thought Harden was better than Westbrook, but that perception is going to change now that Harden's getting the same touches as Westbrook.

Harden: 4th best SG in NBA at worst right now. Probably 3rd atm with Mr. Glass out again. If Harden keeps up even 2/3rds of what he just did all season, he's going to be in the same category as Kobe and Wade.

[jeebus]

hopefully thunderup is chugging bleach after that performance

[024]

harden is very talented. people compare his contract to joe johnson's but harden is already better than him. in fact, he is a top 3 SG right now and only 23. he isn't one dimensional and he might even become the best shooting guard since dwyane wade. he's everything that brandon roy was supposed to be. playmaker, scorer, shoot the 3, can help out on the boards, and play solid defense.

[GuerillaBlack]

That last drive he did for the and one was superstar stuff.

[djohn2oo8]

Crazy all the assists given the little practice time with the team.

[Chinook]

He was impressive. Houston needs to keep making moves, though. I think they need to try to get ahead of the curve instead of following everyone when they target players. Do like the Patriots do and snag a guy before people realize he's on the market. I think the Harden trade was a great example of being aggressive in a good way. They should find other targets like that, and go for good value when they do.

Hell, maybe someone like Chandler or Granger would be good. I'm still going to keep beating the Cousins drum though.

[Venti Quattro]

hopefully thunderup is chugging bleach after that performance

That'll make Oklahoma hicks whiter than white clothes.

[Kai]

bloating stats on a shitty team doesn't mean much imho

Beats the hell out of having Kevin Martin as your best player.

[Clipper Nation]

Look at who he was playing, tbh.....

[Venti Quattro]

Look at who he was playing, tbh.....

:lmao :lmao Clipper Nation in a world of asshurt

[DAF86]

Stat padding vs a shitty team...

Yeah, and when he was doing it against great teams on the playoffs it was because of Durant and Westbrook. :rolleyes

He will be good but not as good as this game. I say he will average anywhere between 20/25 ppg and 4/7 assists and the Rockets will be mediocre.

Anyway, great game by Manu 0.2

[Bill_Brasky]

Thunder shoulda paid up and got rid of the chimp. Harden knows how to run an offense, I'm more impressed with the passing than the scoring.

[mavs>spurs]

if by "we" you mean the hordes on st who follow whatever the popular opinion is at the time and throw in a few emoticons then yes..but people like me were saying that you all were too hard on harden and being downright retarded at times. is he worth 20 million per year? no..but he's a damn good player.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao :lmao Clipper Nation in a world of asshurt
No asshurt here... if Harden starts doing this to playoff teams, he might end up being worth the money, tbh...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Putting up 37/12/4 is significant against any team. Not admitting that you may be wrong when there is evidence contrary to your opinions is a sign of weakness and not strength.

[Latarian Milton]

dude's another ben gordon style player imho. dude's stats might look decent but there's no way in hell he's worth 5yr/80m or anything close, though it sounds just a reasonable price when it comes to the rockets who're notorious for overpaying shitty players imho

[kamikazi_player]

Nice stats, but still, he was facing the Detr:lolit Pist:lmaons

[Spurs da champs]

No.

[AaronY]

FYI: Harden averaged 30 points per 36 minutes last year when he was on the court and Westbrook and Durant were off it.

[Roxsfan]

when he does that shit a few times against good defenders, then we doubters wrong. need good sample sizes




why don't you worry about your winless team bro. Ha ha. Sample size my azz. He is for real. What it do.

[Roxsfan]

Nice stats, but still, he was facing the Detr:lolit Pist:lmaons



I'm gonna laugh win the pistons beat the spurs. Took an act of God for your team to get past the Hornies tonight--you wanna talk about LO mfn' L

[purplengold]

why don't you worry about your winless team bro. Ha ha. Sample size my azz. He is for real. What it do.

yo, I dun worry about my team cuz I got faith in them n been laker fan fo almost 2 decades now. I believe they gon figure themselves out n I'll weather da storm till then, that what a fan do

you on da other hand show up afta harden joined, you justa fairweather cub n i canna really take you dat serious.

[kamikazi_player]

I'm gonna laugh win the pistons beat the spurs. Took an act of God for your team to get past the Hornies tonight--you wanna talk about LO mfn' L
Go ahead.Right now, he faced the Pistons.

Let's see when he faces at least decent competition.

[InRareForm]

lot of people wishing harden to fail lol.

[jesterbobman]

This performance was better than typical Harden, but he is a truly excellent player. Both box score stats and plus minus things painted him as elite, particularly as the sole option, the fact that his usage AND efficiency went up without RW and KD also showed he's a legitimate #1 scorer, and the efficiency of his play is ridiculous. He obviously won't average 37 and 12, but 25, 5 and 7 or so isn't out of the picture if he plays 38 a game.

Without max contract restrictions, that'd get him more than 20 million a year.

[Spurs da champs]

lol I get criticized for saying Harden would suck based off finals, olympics, & preseason but their are you idiots jumping on the band wagon based off one game?:rolleyes

[TDMVPDPOY]

posting stats on a team full of scrubs....tell me when the rockets become relevance in the playoffs

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol I get criticized for saying Harden would suck based off finals, olympics, & preseason but their are you idiots jumping on the band wagon based off one game?:rolleyes

17-34 in the Olympics, jackass. PER over 20 for last years playoffs. :lol preseason.

[Roxsfan]

yo, I dun worry about my team cuz I got faith in them n been laker fan fo almost 2 decades now. I believe they gon figure themselves out n I'll weather da storm till then, that what a fan do

you on da other hand show up afta harden joined, you justa fairweather cub n i canna really take you dat serious.

That's funny bro. You just joined like 5 mns ago, wow, just wow. I've been on this f'n board for almost 6 yrs bro and have been a rox fan for 3 decades. Nice try. I just showed up, mmm kay. The season started today for my team- wow, just m'fn wow. GL getting your first win. Peace, love and chicken Juice.

[ElNono]

I know this is a Harden thread, but I'll add Delfino played pretty well too out there tonight.

[Kidd K]

dude's another ben gordon style player imho. dude's stats might look decent but there's no way in hell he's worth 5yr/80m or anything close, though it sounds just a reasonable price when it comes to the rockets who're notorious for overpaying shitty players imho

No he isn't. Gordon is nonexistant on defense and is a mediocre playmaker at best. I watched the guy for years with the Bulls (his best years). James Harden is much better at just about every facet of the game besides shooting, where Harden's only a bit better rather than way better.

Those two aren't even remotely close. Harden is at worst the 4th best SG in the NBA right now. And that rank's only going to go up as Ginobili and Kobe decline.

Rockets did overpay for the other two guys they signed though (Asik, Lin). But Harden? Stop it, he's their best player right now easily. That trade was gold for Houston. Worst move in Thunder history so far. It's going to be awhile before they top that terrible move.

[Roxsfan]

Go ahead.Right now, he faced the Pistons.

Let's see when he faces at least decent competition.

ok

[purplengold]

That's funny bro. You just joined like 5 mns ago, wow, just wow. I've been on this f'n board for almost 6 yrs bro and have been a rox fan for 3 decades. Nice try. I just showed up, umm kay. The season started today for my time - wow, just m'fn wow. GL getting your first win. Peace, love and chicken Juice.

i just join been irrelevant, im backin my lakers win or lose. I notice 2 dedicated rocket fans that been postin when it just Lin, they got props fo bein fans. you showin up when harden show up, ain't notice you tryna talk rockets, just sucking hardens chocolate rocket.

aint bout time, it consistency. when you weathering a storm, come n talk

[Ari Gold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cCAFdBWuNhw

[Roxsfan]

i just join been irrelevant, im backin my lakers win or lose. I notice 2 dedicated rocket fans that been postin when it just Lin, they got props fo bein fans. you showin up when harden show up, ain't notice you tryna talk rockets, just sucking hardens chocolate rocket.

aint bout time, it consistency. when you weathering a storm, come n talk

Seriously,

STFU. I hope you stumble into a few IQ points and that they stick. 0-2. FU

[Spurs da champs]

17-34 in the Olympics, jackass. PER over 20 for last years playoffs. :lol preseason.

9 minutes per game, asswipe. I don't know what the fuck that dumb ass per stat of his was in the finals but he just awful & yes lol preseason when the Lakers were 0-8 & are clearly still struggling in reg season.

[purplengold]

Seriously,

STFU. I hope you stumble into a few IQ points and that they stick. 0-2. FU

N you got sour, just like all them other fairweather cubs when they pointed out. go back ta jackin off ta hardens pubic beard, doubt ya even noticed him till he joined Houston

[FuzzyLumpkins]

9 minutes per game, asswipe. I don't know what the fuck that dumb ass per stat of his was in the finals but he just awful & yes lol preseason when the Lakers were 0-8 & are clearly still struggling in reg season.

You tell us that one game is meaningless but now the Lakers issues in 2 is meaningful? derp paintchips derp!

[Spurs da champs]

You tell us that one game is meaningless but now the Lakers issues in 2 is meaningful? derp paintchips derp!

The Lakers lost against clearly inferior teams & the fact that they were 0-8 in the preseason is pretty telling tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lin looked pretty good too it seems. Seems like a complementary guy but a good complement.

[Kai]

Lin looked pretty good too it seems. Seems like a complementary guy but a good complement.

Which is appropriate for his salary. People act like he was the one we gave the max to.

[Kai]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cCAFdBWuNhw

:worthy::worthy::worthy:

[FkLA]

Bunch of butthurt spur fans over the WCF tbh. The guy can slash, shoot, and create. This is completely different than Joe Johnson aka 1-on-1 Joe or any other dumb comparison that has been made. He doesnt have the athleticism of a prime Kobe/Wade but hes as smooth and crafty as they come, probably my favorite non-spur player tbh. Within a year or two as he improves and as the chucker+Wade decline this nigga will be the best SG in the game imo.

[FkLA]

dude's another ben gordon style player imho. dude's stats might look decent but there's no way in hell he's worth 5yr/80m or anything close, though it sounds just a reasonable price when it comes to the rockets who're notorious for overpaying shitty players imho

Thats almost as idiotic as the Joe Johnson comparisons, Latarian.

[djohn2oo8]

lol stephen a saying OKC will go back to the finals with Kevin Martin

[Latarian Milton]

No he isn't. Gordon is nonexistant on defense and is a mediocre playmaker at best. I watched the guy for years with the Bulls (his best years). James Harden is much better at just about every facet of the game besides shooting, where Harden's only a bit better rather than way better.

Those two aren't even remotely close. Harden is at worst the 4th best SG in the NBA right now. And that rank's only going to go up as Ginobili and Kobe decline.

Rockets did overpay for the other two guys they signed though (Asik, Lin). But Harden? Stop it, he's their best player right now easily. That trade was gold for Houston. Worst move in Thunder history so far. It's going to be awhile before they top that terrible move.
i think dude benefited alot from playing with a great player (same could be said about westchuck as well). he might grab even bigger stats when he plays as the lone superstar on a shitty team but he's hardly gonna make the team any better imho. and just because he knows how to pass the ball it doesn't mean he's a good playmaker.

[thunderfan]

Why anyone ever doubted Harden's abilities is beyond me. I hope he does well. I don't need to see 37 pts against Detroit to know he's a great player. Ive witnessed 3 years worth of games to know that. I think OKC will come out just fine with this trade though. With time, I truly believe OKC is a stronger team than the one that played in the finals last year. A healthy Maynor, an improved Ibaka, PJ3, Martin, and a promising Lamb. All additions. That is > a single player in Harden. Brooks will have to make adjustments, but we have the players to make this happen.

[purplengold]

i think dude benefited alot from playing with a great player (same could be said about westchuck as well). he might grab even bigger stats when he plays as the lone superstar on a shitty team but he's hardly gonna make the team any better imho. and just because he knows how to pass the ball it doesn't mean he's a good playmaker.

ya think Irving stats inflated fo same reason or he legit?

[Kidd K]

i think dude benefited alot from playing with a great player (same could be said about westchuck as well). he might grab even bigger stats when he plays as the lone superstar on a shitty team but he's hardly gonna make the team any better imho. and just because he knows how to pass the ball it doesn't mean he's a good playmaker.

12 assists in one of first games with team after barely having any practice time. Legit playmaker. Tbh, I'm not sure how you think he isn't one. How much have you see him play? He's a better playmaker and passer than Westbrook.

His assists were low before because Durant and Westbrook hog the lion's share of OKC's possessions. If you look at OKC's team stats (looking at FGAs, FTAs, and turnovers), Durant and Westbrook used up half of OKC's offensive possessions last year. It's literally right around the 50% mark.

Harden did not have much chance to get assists and points because Durant and Westbrook eat up all their possessions. He had little chance to shine. In other words, he was pretty much held back by those two, not "pumped up" for playing with them. I've watched enough OKC games to know Harden's legit, and imo he was better than Westbrook (factoring both ends of the floor in).

The only stat of Harden's that's gonna go down is gonna be his scoring efficiency since it was through the roof last year. His PPG and APG are gonna go way up since he's the star of the Rockets and will get a lot more touches than he did with the spirit crushing presence of Westbrook and Durant hogging the ball half the time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why anyone ever doubted Harden's abilities is beyond me. I hope he does well. I don't need to see 37 pts against Detroit to know he's a great player. Ive witnessed 3 years worth of games to know that. I think OKC will come out just fine with this trade though. With time, I truly believe OKC is a stronger team than the one that played in the finals last year. A healthy Maynor, an improved Ibaka, PJ3, Martin, and a promising Lamb. All additions. That is > a single player in Harden. Brooks will have to make adjustments, but we have the players to make this happen.

There are only 5 players on the court at one time and time and again championship teams have shown that stars win.

[Bill_Brasky]

Why anyone ever doubted Harden's abilities is beyond me. I hope he does well. I don't need to see 37 pts against Detroit to know he's a great player. Ive witnessed 3 years worth of games to know that. I think OKC will come out just fine with this trade though. With time, I truly believe OKC is a stronger team than the one that played in the finals last year. A healthy Maynor, an improved Ibaka, PJ3, Martin, and a promising Lamb. All additions. That is > a single player in Harden. Brooks will have to make adjustments, but we have the players to make this happen.

The thing is you guys coulda kept Harden instead of paying Westbrook and still got a great deal/picks for RW in a trade. Then you'd have a real PG along with 2 real scoring options. Plus Harden's vision/passing are so good(better than Westbrook in fact) that he could run the offense in crunch time.

[The Gemini Method]

A superb game for Harden as he becomes on of the top-5 most watched players of the early season. I think he'll be fine in Houston and will augment Lin very well. It would be awesome for Rocket fans if he is able to become a superstar for them, or, at the very least a 2nd tier star and then they can focus on getting a top tier star. His beard looks better contrasting with the red of the Rockets jersey.

[thunderfan]

The thing is you guys coulda kept Harden instead of paying Westbrook and still got a great deal/picks for RW in a trade. Then you'd have a real PG along with 2 real scoring options. Plus Harden's vision/passing are so good(better than Westbrook in fact) that he could run the offense in crunch time.

I don't know. I won't disagree with your thinking there. Maynor would be the "real PG" you speak of. In terms of the 5 guys on the floor at once the other guy mentioned...rewind back to the Finals vs Miami. Honestly..I'll take RW, Martin, KD, PJ3, and Ibaka ANYDAY against Miami over what Brooks threw out there last year... RW, Harden, KD, Ibaka, Perk. Look, with the 5 I mentioned...we'll skip KD and RW...we know them. Beyond that, you truly have 3 guys next to KD and RW that are potentially pretty legit 15-18ppg scorers. Yes, Ibaka too. There's a huge amount of flexibility in OKC's lineups. You can even put Maynor/Jackson at 1, RW to 2, Jones 3, KD 4, Ibaka 5. That lineup right there is absolutely untouchable by any team in the NBA in many aspects. OKC has work to do and none of this is given, I'm just simply saying I like the potential that exists with this roster, even with Harden gone.

[djohn2oo8]

Thanking the basketball gods they got Harden instead of Gordon.

[djohn2oo8]

A superb game for Harden as he becomes on of the top-5 most watched players of the early season. I think he'll be fine in Houston and will augment Lin very well. It would be awesome for Rocket fans if he is able to become a superstar for them, or, at the very least a 2nd tier star and then they can focus on getting a top tier star. His beard looks better contrasting with the red of the Rockets jersey.

This. I'm hoping at some point Demarcus Cousins demands a trade.

[Kai]

here's the Lin Highlights

CAtd7BkmpAo

[jacobdrj]

Bill_Brasky

Agreed! On every point...

[Norris Cole]

Fluke game against a bad team but yes I was wrong.

[D12]

:lmao chinamen at clutchfans fondling Lin's testicles when it was Harden who catapulted them to a win

[Norris Cole]

I don't know. I won't disagree with your thinking there. Maynor would be the "real PG" you speak of. In terms of the 5 guys on the floor at once the other guy mentioned...rewind back to the Finals vs Miami. Honestly..I'll take RW, Martin, KD, PJ3, and Ibaka ANYDAY against Miami over what Brooks threw out there last year... RW, Harden, KD, Ibaka, Perk. Look, with the 5 I mentioned...we'll skip KD and RW...we know them. Beyond that, you truly have 3 guys next to KD and RW that are potentially pretty legit 15-18ppg scorers. Yes, Ibaka too. There's a huge amount of flexibility in OKC's lineups. You can even put Maynor/Jackson at 1, RW to 2, Jones 3, KD 4, Ibaka 5. That lineup right there is absolutely untouchable by any team in the NBA in many aspects. OKC has work to do and none of this is given, I'm just simply saying I like the potential that exists with this roster, even with Harden gone.
You think Kevin no defense Martin and some rookie scrub is "untouchable by any team"? :lmao Classic Lakaluva shit takes..

[thunderfan]

You think Kevin no defense Martin and some rookie scrub is "untouchable by any team"? :lmao Classic Lakaluva shit takes..
Potentially. Also notice the words "in many aspects". I'm referring to length, speed, and athleticism combined. Notice I didn't say it was an unbeatable lineup.

[Latarian Milton]

ya think Irving stats inflated fo same reason or he legit?
he legit but would u trade som yo franchise playa say DH fo him? he gon b 15+6 guy playin' on a playoff team as da 3-4th option imho

[Pelicans78]

Thanking the basketball gods they got Harden instead of Gordon.

Any team that drafts Austin Rivers with a top 10 pick deserves to be stuck with Gordon's salary.

[Pelicans78]

I don't know. I won't disagree with your thinking there. Maynor would be the "real PG" you speak of. In terms of the 5 guys on the floor at once the other guy mentioned...rewind back to the Finals vs Miami. Honestly..I'll take RW, Martin, KD, PJ3, and Ibaka ANYDAY against Miami over what Brooks threw out there last year... RW, Harden, KD, Ibaka, Perk. Look, with the 5 I mentioned...we'll skip KD and RW...we know them. Beyond that, you truly have 3 guys next to KD and RW that are potentially pretty legit 15-18ppg scorers. Yes, Ibaka too. There's a huge amount of flexibility in OKC's lineups. You can even put Maynor/Jackson at 1, RW to 2, Jones 3, KD 4, Ibaka 5. That lineup right there is absolutely untouchable by any team in the NBA in many aspects. OKC has work to do and none of this is given, I'm just simply saying I like the potential that exists with this roster, even with Harden gone.

Jones is overrated, especially by you. His skills aren't that great and he won't be anything more than a decent player. His best position is a stretch PF because wing players in this league will crap over his perimeter skills. Also, neither Jones or Martin will defend well, especially against strong perimeter skills and Martin doesn't play off the ball nearly as well as Harden. No way the lineup you mention does any better than last year's mainly because Martin and Jones can't touch what Harden does on the floor.

[Latarian Milton]

12 assists in one of first games with team after barely having any practice time. Legit playmaker. Tbh, I'm not sure how you think he isn't one. How much have you see him play? He's a better playmaker and passer than Westbrook.

His assists were low before because Durant and Westbrook hog the lion's share of OKC's possessions. If you look at OKC's team stats (looking at FGAs, FTAs, and turnovers), Durant and Westbrook used up half of OKC's offensive possessions last year. It's literally right around the 50% mark.


Harden did not have much chance to get assists and points because Durant and Westbrook eat up all their possessions. He had little chance to shine. In other words, he was pretty much held back by those two, not "pumped up" for playing with them. I've watched enough OKC games to know Harden's legit, and imo he was better than Westbrook (factoring both ends of the floor in).

The only stat of Harden's that's gonna go down is gonna be his scoring efficiency since it was through the roof last year. His PPG and APG are gonna go way up since he's the star of the Rockets and will get a lot more touches than he did with the spirit crushing presence of Westbrook and Durant hogging the ball half the time.
the sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while. he might got the potential to be real good but only time will tell, and wasn't it also the first game for him where he didn't play like an ass since may? he might be a better passer than westchuck but that ain't sayin' much imho.

its for sure that his stats will grow to a significant extent when he takes the ball-hogging role on a shitty team and his efficiency will go down supposedly, but it ain't like he has ever had good efficiency when playin in OKC. nigga was shit against spurs n Heat last season and was even shittier in the olympics

harden might be a better team player than westchuck but he doesn't possess nothing like the explosive drives and the accurate monkey hooks that westchuck has, so you've rarely seen teams double teaming the beard nigga the way they do durant and westchuck. dude got all the basic skills and can shoot consistently from the field but there's nothing special with him that makes him a superstar imho

[Latarian Milton]

Jones is overrated, especially by you. His skills aren't that great and he won't be anything more than a decent player. His best position is a stretch PF because wing players in this league will crap over his perimeter skills. Also, neither Jones or Martin will defend well, especially against strong perimeter skills and Martin doesn't play off the ball nearly as well as Harden. No way the lineup you mention does any better than last year's mainly because Martin and Jones can't touch what Harden does on the floor.
beard nig might be a bit better than kevin m:lolrtin but he wanted a fucking max which the small-marketed OKC couldn't afford to give him. the OKC had no choice but to let him go now rather than let him walk free come the end of the season imho, though it would be an easy choice between fillet and steak despite the salary issue

[Kidd K]

the sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while. he might got the potential to be real good but only time will tell, and wasn't it also the first game for him where he didn't play like an ass since may? he might be a better passer than westchuck but that ain't sayin' much imho.

its for sure that his stats will grow to a significant extent when he takes the ball-hogging role on a shitty team and his efficiency will go down supposedly, but it ain't like he has ever had good efficiency when playin in OKC. nigga was shit against spurs n Heat last season and was even shittier in the olympics

harden might be a better team player than westchuck but he doesn't possess nothing like the explosive drives and the accurate monkey hooks that westchuck has, so you've rarely seen teams double teaming the beard nigga the way they do durant and westchuck. dude got all the basic skills and can shoot consistently from the field but there's nothing special with him that makes him a superstar imho

Sun shining comment doesn't apply since he's already been good before this year. Shit isn't new. He was already heralded as a top 5 SG in the NBA. Good games aren't new to Harden.

"First good game since May" is also a stupid comment that doesn't apply since it's the first game of the season, and his last game of the playoffs wasn't good. No shit there's going to be a big gap in between good games. -_- What's even your point there? Supposed to be some kind of zinger or something?

True, being a better passer than WB isn't saying much. But he's an elite playmaker at his position regardless. Can you name 5 better playmaking SGs? Like, without argument better. I can only think of one off the top of my head (Ginobili). Harden's top 5 at the SG position in that talent imo.

Rockets weren't that bad last year. About .500.

Harden wasn't efficient with OKC? . . .shouldn't you have even looked up the guy's stats before saying that? He was second in the NBA in eFG% and TS% last year behind only Chandler in both categories. In other words, the most efficient scorer in the NBA besides Chandler who's most shots were just alley oop dunks.

Harden was also 3rd in the NBA in offensive efficiency, behind only Chandler and Chris Paul. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Harden wasn't efficient from.

You don't need to be a monkeyballer to score and win games. I also didn't see many teams double teaming Westbrook tbh. They usually single cover him and if anything try to double Durant.

The stat you really need to be looking at is USG% for Westbrook and Durant, then it will make more sense why Harden's PPG and APG wasn't that high. Those two are top 5 in ball hogging in the NBA. And on the same team, who eat up those perimeter possessions. Harden was held back because of those ball hoggers. He's going to shine in Houston after getting more possessions, while Durant/Westbrook's efficiency's going to go down. Even C Webb and Kenny Smith were saying the same shit on TNT tonight that I been saying the last 2 days.

[Indazone]

lol @Latarian blowing crack up his own ass trying to dis Harden's 37 pt game. :lol

[DMC]

At least Houston will be a fun team to watch, I think.

[Malik Hairston]

:lol another stupid thread by OP, tbh..

Most people with any basketball knowledge were intelligent enough to recognize Harden's impact, even prior to his massive season opening performance..only idiots that are brainwashed by the media and shitty analysts(Barkley, Reggie, etc) thought otherwise..

[da_suns_fan]

Bunch of butthurt spur fans over the WCF tbh. The guy can slash, shoot, and create. This is completely different than Joe Johnson aka 1-on-1 Joe or any other dumb comparison that has been made. He doesnt have the athleticism of a prime Kobe/Wade but hes as smooth and crafty as they come, probably my favorite non-spur player tbh. Within a year or two as he improves and as the chucker+Wade decline this nigga will be the best SG in the game imo.

Yep.

I watched Joe Johnson in his prime...not even close to Harden.

[da_suns_fan]

the sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while. he might got the potential to be real good but only time will tell, and wasn't it also the first game for him where he didn't play like an ass since may? he might be a better passer than westchuck but that ain't sayin' much imho.

its for sure that his stats will grow to a significant extent when he takes the ball-hogging role on a shitty team and his efficiency will go down supposedly, but it ain't like he has ever had good efficiency when playin in OKC.

Probably THE MOST ignorant post Ive ever seen on ST. You must be monos in disguise.

[Spursfan092120]

when he does that shit a few times against good defenders, then we doubters wrong. need good sample sizes
You do know he played last year right? It's not like dude's a rookie..he's been doing this shit...and you still need to learn english.

[Kidd K]

Probably THE MOST ignorant post Ive ever seen on ST. You must be monos in disguise.

I can see his next posts now:

It ain't like MJ was ever that clutch

It ain't like Bill Russell ever won a title

It ain't like Kareem ever scored that many points

[ImDaNuts]

Rockets come back down to earth tomorrow vs Atlanta.

[purplengold]

You do know he played last year right? It's not like dude's a rookie..he's been doing this shit...and you still need to learn english.

im sayin bout him bein franchise player, he didn't show that in okc. that what ima sayin bout sample size, need ta see him fill da box against legit defense fo few dozen games as #1 at least.

[purplengold]

he legit but would u trade som yo franchise playa say DH fo him? he gon b 15+6 guy playin' on a playoff team as da 3-4th option imho

nah not Dwight dat be dumb as fuck. if he play 22/8 like I think gonna, he worth somebody like curry, wall or even tyreke. That just talkin bout him durin his 3rd season

[JohnnyMax]

harden is better than wall, tyreke, curry

hes a notch below westbrook, rose, durant

[m>s]

Sun shining comment doesn't apply since he's already been good before this year. Shit isn't new. He was already heralded as a top 5 SG in the NBA. Good games aren't new to Harden.

"First good game since May" is also a stupid comment that doesn't apply since it's the first game of the season, and his last game of the playoffs wasn't good. No shit there's going to be a big gap in between good games. -_- What's even your point there? Supposed to be some kind of zinger or something?

True, being a better passer than WB isn't saying much. But he's an elite playmaker at his position regardless. Can you name 5 better playmaking SGs? Like, without argument better. I can only think of one off the top of my head (Ginobili). Harden's top 5 at the SG position in that talent imo.

Rockets weren't that bad last year. About .500.

Harden wasn't efficient with OKC? . . .shouldn't you have even looked up the guy's stats before saying that? He was second in the NBA in eFG% and TS% last year behind only Chandler in both categories. In other words, the most efficient scorer in the NBA besides Chandler who's most shots were just alley oop dunks.

Harden was also 3rd in the NBA in offensive efficiency, behind only Chandler and Chris Paul. So I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Harden wasn't efficient from.

You don't need to be a monkeyballer to score and win games. I also didn't see many teams double teaming Westbrook tbh. They usually single cover him and if anything try to double Durant.

The stat you really need to be looking at is USG% for Westbrook and Durant, then it will make more sense why Harden's PPG and APG wasn't that high. Those two are top 5 in ball hogging in the NBA. And on the same team, who eat up those perimeter possessions. Harden was held back because of those ball hoggers. He's going to shine in Houston after getting more possessions, while Durant/Westbrook's efficiency's going to go down. Even C Webb and Kenny Smith were saying the same shit on TNT tonight that I been saying the last 2 days.
FG% doesn't tell the whole truth when he either played off the bench against shitty defense or played alongside durant/westchuck during crunch minutes where durant drew 70% of the opposing team's defensive attention and westchuck took the rest 30%. beard nig played good against pistons the other night, which didn't mean shit though when the pistons haven't played any good D since ben wallace gone. having one good game against a shitty team doesn't mean he's already the rockets' new face whatsoever, only time will tell if he's a real elite that had been hindered in OKC due to the presences of durant and westchuck or he's just another flop that only eats $$$

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FG% doesn't tell the whole truth when he either played off the bench against shitty defense or played alongside durant/westchuck during crunch minutes where durant drew 70% of the opposing team's defensive attention and westchuck took the rest 30%. beard nig played good against pistons the other night, which didn't mean shit though when the pistons haven't played any good D since ben wallace gone. having one good game against a shitty team doesn't mean he's already the rockets' new face whatsoever, only time will tell if he's a real elite that had been hindered in OKC due to the presences of durant and westchuck or he's just another flop that only eats $$$

Straight up ignorance about a division rival. With the 2nd unit and down the stretch Harden took the ball instead of the chucker and played the facilitator most possessions. Making up percentages is fun though!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

harden is better than wall, tyreke, curry

hes a notch below westbrook, rose, durant

This is fair mostly but in an offensive league I put him ahead of the chucker. The chucker is not to be grouped with Durantula and Rose at the very least.

[Kidd K]

FG% doesn't tell the whole truth when he either played off the bench against shitty defense or played alongside durant/westchuck during crunch minutes where durant drew 70% of the opposing team's defensive attention and westchuck took the rest 30%. beard nig played good against pistons the other night, which didn't mean shit though when the pistons haven't played any good D since ben wallace gone. having one good game against a shitty team doesn't mean he's already the rockets' new face whatsoever, only time will tell if he's a real elite that had been hindered in OKC due to the presences of durant and westchuck or he's just another flop that only eats $$$

I didn't use the FG% stat. I used eFG% and TS%.

Westbrook doesn't draw double teams like you guys are claiming. I'm guessing that's just an assumption, because I've actually been watching OKC, and I rarely see him get doubled unless you're calling help D' in the paint a double team (which it isn't). Durant gets doubled, Westbrook very rarely does.

Speaking of which, you don't seem to be taking a particular stance on why Harden was so efficient. You're claiming he had good efficiency because he played off the bench then also because he plays with both WB and Durant. Yet, he doesn't do both at once. Which is it? It just sounds like one big excuse for his stats. When he's coming off the bench, all the defense is focused on him since he's the best player. Yet, you're trying to excuse that away by saying Durant and WB play on the same team. You can't stand on both sides of the fence at once.

Did anyone else on the Thunder shoot as well as Harden while coming off the bench or playing with them? The answer would be no. How about, did any other guards shoot that well playing with Kobe and Gasol and Bynum? Or LBJ, Wade, and Bosh? Or any other teams with multiple good players? Whether they came off the bench or not? The answer is "no" on all counts.

It goes both ways too. Westbrook and Durant saw increased efficiency because of Harden's presence. I guarantee OKC will drop in their offensive rating this year. They will not be #1 most of the season like they were last year (finished #2). I doubt they will be top 3. Possibly not even top 5. That's even with adding Kevin Martin. The loss of Harden will be huge, because Harden's offensive efficiency was among the league's best. He was 3rd in the NBA. You know where Durant and Westbrook were? Not even top 20. Westbrook in particular was way off of the top 20.

OKC will not finish higher than the 3 seed and will lose in the 2nd round. Book it. And it will be a direct result of trading off Harden.

[Kai]

He's a beast.

[purplengold]

harden is better than wall, tyreke, curry

hes a notch below westbrook, rose, durant

was talkin bout who'd I trade fo Irving

[Pelicans78]

harden is better than wall, tyreke, curry

hes a notch below westbrook, rose, durant

Harden is better than Westbrook.

[LkrFan]

Harden is playing like an ASG starter - even without the Chinese vote. He balling.

:lolKC

[LakerHater]

James Harden has 25 pts midway thru 3rd qtr vs Hawks. Has scored 25+ pts in consecutive games for 1st time in career

[Pelicans78]

Harden is playing like an ASG starter - even without the Chinese vote. He balling.

:lolKC

How many championship contenders trade one of their best players just to look towards the future? Presti just outsmarted himself.

[purplengold]

Harden is playing like an ASG starter - even without the Chinese vote. He balling.

:lolKC

n Lin gonna start ova him

[InRareForm]

harden finna lead the league in PPG if he keeps this shit up

[Clipper Nation]

Now Harden's starting to convince me a little bit, tbh... still a long season though...

[siraulo23]

35 and counting

[LkrFan]

http://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/traded-james-harden-costume.jpg

:lol

[Kai]

His passing is bonkers. plenty of hockey assists tonight, should have 10+ dimes as well if not for easy misses/fouls.

[InRareForm]

38

[InRareForm]

sam presti is going to drink two bottles of wine tonight tbh..

[Kai]

40 points on 14/19 shooting with a minute left

[LkrFan]

sam presti is going to drink two bottles of wine tonight with RC tbh..

FIFY son. :lol

[RocketsfoLife]

Harden has gone off Lets Fucking Go

[djohn2oo8]

42

[siraulo23]

19 shots 45 points holy shite

[Kai]

45 points on 19 shots. damn

[WeNeedLength]

Damn 45 points. And OKC fans think they are filling that void with that soft ass pussy Martin. :lmao

[Kidd K]

New career high for James Jordan. . .I mean James Harden. 45 points on 14/19 shooting (73.6%).

Completely took a dump on the Hawks in the 4th quarter, lightning them up for 18 of Houstons 28 points that quarter.

The Rockets were giving Harden the ball on just about every possession in the last 6 minutes, and he shat all over the Hawks to carry Houston to a win.

Averaging 41 PPG right now. :lmao Thunder making dumbest trade of all time just to save $1.25m a year.

[Fabbs]

If we thought Game 1 was just a fluke.....
45 on 14-19 FG and 15-17 fts. 7 boards to boot.

[LkrFan]

He averaging 41 ppg.

:lolKC

[mystargtr34]

:lol holy shit

[AussieFanKurt]

Fucking hell Harden, balla.

How much Thunder fans have killed themselves after todays game

[LkrFan]

Damn 45 points. And OKC fans think they are filling that void with that soft ass pussy Martin. :lmao
:lolKC

[WeNeedLength]

Shooter McGavin ‏@ShooterMcGavin_
(http://twitter.com/ShooterMcGavin_)BREAKING: OKC offers Kevin Martin back to Houston to reacquire James Harden.

:lol

[Kai]

http://i45.tinypic.com/28snh5i.jpg

[mystargtr34]

Best SG in the league tbh.. number 2 behind Kobe at worst.

[AussieFanKurt]

Happy to say I was wrong about Harden, well done son.. so far. Though I doubt he won't continue at a high level even if not this high

[Kai]

Lin and Asik had good nights as well. Moreyball doing work.

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao :lmao :lmao OKC

Harden going Timothy McVeigh on Oklahoma City :lmao

[jeebus]

This is good news. OKC fans will kill themselves and the population of Chokelahoma will dramatically be reduced.

[timtonymanu]

41 PPG. Jeez.

:lol OKC
:lol paying Congo over Harden
:lol Chuck thinking OKC will make it out of the West

[jeebus]

Is Isiah Thomas running the team in OKC?

[TheCultOfPersonality]

41ppg on 28-44 shooting and 6-14 from 3.

[Latarian Milton]

sons don't make it sound like he is the 2nd coming of jordan tbh, nigga might be legit but still has alot to prove.

[Agloco]

HAM mode tbh. I'm not shaving till December.

[LkrFan]

41ppg on 28-44 shooting and 6-14 from 3.
Who is det in your sig son?

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Lin and Asik had good nights as well. Moreyball doing work.
Yep. Lin with 21pts 10rebs (5 off) and 7 assist, Asik with 19 rebounds and 9 offensive rebounds. The Rockets had 23 offensive rebounds on the Hawks and outrebounded them 58-36

[LkrFan]

Fat Felton

[Venti Quattro]

sons don't make it sound like he is the 2nd coming of jordan tbh, nigga might be legit but still has alot to prove.

What we know is that two games have proven that OKC were very stupid to trade Harden.

[Kidd K]

41 PPG. Jeez.

:lol OKC
:lol paying Congo over Harden
:lol Chuck thinking OKC will make it out of the West

They paid Westbrook over Harden. OKC was going to keep Durant and Ibaka regardless. It was always between Westbrook and Harden, and they chose Westbrook last year.

Was obvious Harden was gonna be gone ever since they inked that deal with Russhog Chuckbrick.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Who is det in your sig son?I have no idea. I got it off of a wrestling message board. I didn't get the name of the poster I got it from.

[LakerHater]

Rockets are 2-0. Harden's 82 pts are the most for a player in a team's 1st 2 games since Jordan scored 91pts in 1986

[AussieFanKurt]

:lmao :lmao :lmao OKC

Harden going Timothy McVeigh on Oklahoma City :lmao


:lmao :lmao black comedy at its best :lol :lol

[jesterbobman]

How awesome is Houston going to be when they add a max guy next summer?

Also, Morey deserves credit for looking to get players who are in situations where they are more expensive to their previous team(All 3 of Asik, Lin and Harden more expensive to their previous teams due to the tax), Were going to be in smaller roles(And thus, less valuable in terms of on court value to Chicago, NY and OKC than they are to Houston), and they were all in positions where there contracts were limited in value(They got the max Morey could give them as Asik and Lin were restricted to MLE for the first 2 years, and Harden can only be given max(By definition with a max, paid below completely free market rate). That's great work as a GM.

Also, Kevin martin has 34 points on 21 FGA through 2 games, and everyone realizes that OKC screwed up. That's how good Harden has been.

[Latarian Milton]

New career high for James Jordan. . .I mean James Harden. 45 points on 14/19 shooting (73.6%).

Completely took a dump on the Hawks in the 4th quarter, lightning them up for 18 of Houstons 28 points that quarter.

The Rockets were giving Harden the ball on just about every possession in the last 6 minutes, and he shat all over the Hawks to carry Houston to a win.

Averaging 41 PPG right now. :lmao Thunder making dumbest trade of all time just to save $1.25m a year.
martin's contract is expiring IIRC and it seems more like a salary dump move for them imho, they're based in a small market so it's understandable that they're tryna avoid paying luxury tax at all cost.

and i don't think winning the championship was ever a realistic goal for this team even w/o trading harden, when miami was clearly dominating the league and are locked for future 5 consecutive titles at least. OKC wouldn't win the championship anytime soon anyways so it seems to me that they just made a smart move in trading an inconsistent overrated nigga for a bag of wonderkids and good financial flexibility imho

[Pelicans78]

Morey's had a good offseason. Great draft. Smart signing with Asik. Lin was a decent signing, losing Dragic hurt. Getting a good pick for Lowry and using assets to get Harden.

[Latarian Milton]

What we know is that two games have proven that OKC were very stupid to trade Harden.
same could be said about the lakers as well based on the first two games imho. 2 games ain't proving shit, OKC got an established monkeyball system and it takes time for the new signings to adapt.

[purplengold]

he def on the right track ta makin okc look like chumps. If I see him doin this shit against a contending team a few times then I'll say he legit star wit superstar potential.

[purplengold]

same could be said about the lakers as well based on the first two games imho. 2 games ain't proving shit, OKC got an established monkeyball system and it takes time for the new signings to adapt.

provin bout Nash but Howard already improvement ova Bynum.

[Kai]

he def on the right track ta makin okc look like chumps. If I see him doin this shit against a contending team a few times then I'll say he legit star wit superstar potential.

He dropped 37 and then 45 with literally 2 practices with teammates that don't even know each other (11 new players), let alone him, and you won't even admit he has superstar potential?

[Kai]

and 1s in the clutch

t2fxmbbvldA

[scanry]

I know people are going crazy, but it's just his ego taking over and trying to prove OKC made a mistake and they sure as hell did. Harden is no doubt a max player considering the ridiculous contracts players like Amare, Melo, Westbrook and Hibbert got recently.

BTW Jeremy Lin isn't looking too shabby either. :toast

[Latarian Milton]

rockets got no system so it takes no time for the new acquisitions to make instant impacts imho. the ineptness of the team is a fair quintessence of the city tbh, which is the dumbest of all major US cities with populations of 1m or more

[Kai]

Rogue why are you such a hater? Yao is gone, let it go bruh.

[thunderup]

rockets got no system so it takes no time for the new acquisitions to make instant impacts imho. the ineptness of the team is a fair quintessence of the city tbh, which is the dumbest of all major US cities with populations of 1m or more
You're hatred of Houston goes leaps and bounds.

[Latarian Milton]

H-town might not be the dumbest per official stats but you guys (rockets fans) just make my false assumption look true imho

[LkrFan]

21 points 10 rebs 7 assists for Linsanity. Not bad at all.

[Pelicans78]

Rockets just need a big who can score and they will be lethal.

[Kai]

Morey let the world know after Harden's presser that they want another star. He might as well have shouted on a mountain top that he has room for another max, and he's looking to deal. IF Harden can keep it up, another star will gravitate here. That's how today's NBA works.

[LnGrrrR]

He's certainly doing a good job of proving Presti and co wrong...

[Ari Gold]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WC99ji34hNg

[Kidd K]

martin's contract is expiring IIRC and it seems more like a salary dump move for them imho, they're based in a small market so it's understandable that they're tryna avoid paying luxury tax at all cost.

and i don't think winning the championship was ever a realistic goal for this team even w/o trading harden, when miami was clearly dominating the league and are locked for future 5 consecutive titles at least. OKC wouldn't win the championship anytime soon anyways so it seems to me that they just made a smart move in trading an inconsistent overrated nigga for a bag of wonderkids and good financial flexibility imho

OKC isn't that small a market, especially when they have one of the most marketable guys in the NBA, Durant, who's always posted all over ESPN and NBA tv. They could have afforded to pay Harden. The offer they refused to accept was only 1.25m a year more than what they offered. <<<< That is the main piece of info you need to know.

They could've had Harden for 4 years @15m per, but they only wanted to pay 13.75m. Harden did not even ask for a max deal, he asked for 1 year and 1m less per year less than a max deal (20m less). They would not have been in the luxury tax except for like 1 year, and it wouldn't have cost them that much. What it would've cost them still wouldn't have put them in the red. They are well into the black right now

Miami wasn't dominating the league, they're just dominating the east. If they were in the west, it wouldn't be a very easy road to the Finals. Precisely why OKC and LA aren't favored to win despite being good. Like Wilbon said, The Heat could be the 3rd best team in the NBA and still win the title. There's nobody out east who's even a challenge. . .weak/shitty conference for like 15th year in a row.

OKC had excellent potential with Harden. Now their potential is gone. It was a matter of "we're winning NOW". . .now it's a matter of "wait 1-2 years from now" all over again. Constantly in a state of "wait 'til next year" while the owner pads his pockets. Tbh, they're not playing to win. They're playing to make money.

I realize, you being a Heat fan, think OKC "wasn't gonna win with Miami being good now", but dude come on, you know that's bs. Miami isn't unstoppable. Never got 60 wins yet even in the weak east. Played 2nd best western conf team in Finals last year and 3rd best the year before (and still lost), and barely got there after getting pushed to 7 games by a hobbled, old Celtics team. They have their best team this year, but their track record is unimpressive when you look at how good they were projected to be.

OKC would have been the best team going forward by far if they didn't trade Epic Beard Man. Now they're just another Moneyball team who's going to float around the 3-6 seed every year and never quite make it. Harden was the X factor. I think you can't argue that anymore with how good Harden is proving to be now that his powers have been unlocked in Houston.

[Spurs9]

Good to see the rockets with a exciting team, just need a big

[sook]

37/12/5

in regards to your sig.

http://i45.tinypic.com/16h5fzd.png

[sook]

I've been in a fuck the rockets type of mood for a while now and thought the Harden trade was good but overrated.

Its not the numbers he's putting up, but the way he is. I like the fact the guy is relentless. I am as pessimistic as they come...and even I can't say anything. We have to wait for a more games but I like what I am seeing.

[sook]

rockets got no system so it takes no time for the new acquisitions to make instant impacts imho. the ineptness of the team is a fair quintessence of the city tbh, which is the dumbest of all major US cities with populations of 1m or more

this is fucking hilarious but true haha.

:whine

On a side note even though I've been away from basketball message boards for my growing hate of the NBA...I've totally realized that the sigs on spurstalk are enough to warrant coming to this site. I just spent the last 30 minutes being wooed by the sigs. Its better than free porn. :wow

[dylankerouac]

OKC isn't that small a market, especially when they have one of the most marketable guys in the NBA, Durant, who's always posted all over ESPN and NBA tv. They could have afforded to pay Harden. The offer they refused to accept was only 1.25m a year more than what they offered. <<<< That is the main piece of info you need to know.

They could've had Harden for 4 years @15m per, but they only wanted to pay 13.75m. Harden did not even ask for a max deal, he asked for 1 year and 1m less per year less than a max deal (20m less). They would not have been in the luxury tax except for like 1 year, and it wouldn't have cost them that much. What it would've cost them still wouldn't have put them in the red. They are well into the black right now

Miami wasn't dominating the league, they're just dominating the east. If they were in the west, it wouldn't be a very easy road to the Finals. Precisely why OKC and LA aren't favored to win despite being good. Like Wilbon said, The Heat could be the 3rd best team in the NBA and still win the title. There's nobody out east who's even a challenge. . .weak/shitty conference for like 15th year in a row.

OKC had excellent potential with Harden. Now their potential is gone. It was a matter of "we're winning NOW". . .now it's a matter of "wait 1-2 years from now" all over again. Constantly in a state of "wait 'til next year" while the owner pads his pockets. Tbh, they're not playing to win. They're playing to make money.

I realize, you being a Heat fan, think OKC "wasn't gonna win with Miami being good now", but dude come on, you know that's bs. Miami isn't unstoppable. Never got 60 wins yet even in the weak east. Played 2nd best western conf team in Finals last year and 3rd best the year before (and still lost), and barely got there after getting pushed to 7 games by a hobbled, old Celtics team. They have their best team this year, but their track record is unimpressive when you look at how good they were projected to be.

OKC would have been the best team going forward by far if they didn't trade Epic Beard Man. Now they're just another Moneyball team who's going to float around the 3-6 seed every year and never quite make it. Harden was the X factor. I think you can't argue that anymore with how good Harden is proving to be now that his powers have been unlocked in Houston.

No idea if the numbers are right but you brought the goods.

[FkLA]

Latarian Milton (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=21247) aka Rogue aka the dumbest of all-time is such a dumbass tbh. Beard nigga is a badass and Linsanity is a solid piece just like FkLA was saying when everybody and their moms was talking shit about both of them.

[Juggity]

Harden has come to play so far. Extremely impressive performances.

If he can keep up this kind of play, I'll be happy to admit I was wrong about him. He is worth every penny of his contract and then some at 41pts/game.

But where was this dominant scoring/passing guy in olympics? He'll get more minutes when not playing for the national team, yeah okay. But in the few minutes he was afforded in the olympics, he looked atrocious. Makes me think Harden is just hitting his totally unsustainabl hot streak.

[GuerillaBlack]

Don't worry. He is going to ball in Rio.

[benefactor]

Just crazy. He will come back to earth some eventually but right now he's dropping a huge dump on Oklahoma. Couldn't have happened to a nicer state.

[TDMVPDPOY]

premature ejaculation thread, havnt won against anyone worth mentioning

[DAF86]

I'm rooting for Harden and the Rockets.

[djohn2oo8]

premature ejaculation thread, havnt won against anyone worth mentioning

45 and 37 with only two days of practice.

[siraulo23]

lin-harden backcourt is actually a pretty exciting to watch especially on fastbreak

obviously harden is not gonna shoot this ridiculous high percentage on his mid range shots, but still pretty damn impressive outings so far

[thunderfan]

He's a star no doubt, but a lot of people here don't fully realize that James Harden was ALWAYS going to be the third rung on the Thunder ladder - ALWAYS. He was NOT a good player when he was in the starting lineup. He was very underutilized by Scott Brooks a lot of the times. Sure, the offense would run through him some, but often with KD and RW on the floor he was simply not in a position to show his full potential. He can do that in Houston, obviously. THis is a big reason why I say Martin is a very good player for OKC. Martin puts points on the board without plays being ran for him or him needing the ball. Harden did NOT. Harden NEEDS the ball in his hands and the offense running through him to score. THat didn't happen enough in OKC for him to warrant a max contract. Regardless of how good he is, the ball is going through RW and KD more times than not. Martin complements the Big 2 very very well. He scored a very quiet, but effective 19 pts last night.

[Roxsfan]

He's a star no doubt, but a lot of people here don't fully realize that James Harden was ALWAYS going to be the third rung on the Thunder ladder - ALWAYS. He was NOT a good player when he was in the starting lineup. He was very underutilized by Scott Brooks a lot of the times. Sure, the offense would run through him some, but often with KD and RW on the floor he was simply not in a position to show his full potential. He can do that in Houston, obviously. THis is a big reason why I say Martin is a very good player for OKC. Martin puts points on the board without plays being ran for him or him needing the ball. Harden did NOT. Harden NEEDS the ball in his hands and the offense running through him to score. THat didn't happen enough in OKC for him to warrant a max contract. Regardless of how good he is, the ball is going through RW and KD more times than not. Martin complements the Big 2 very very well. He scored a very quiet, but effective 19 pts last night.

You know, I've seen westbrook play and I got a tell you - OKC should have dealt westbrook, not harden. I'm glad they dealt Harden b/c I would not have wanted westbrook - he just makes dumb mistakes over and over and forces things.

[benefactor]

He's a star no doubt, but a lot of people here don't fully realize that James Harden was ALWAYS going to be the third rung on the Thunder ladder - ALWAYS. He was NOT a good player when he was in the starting lineup. He was very underutilized by Scott Brooks a lot of the times. Sure, the offense would run through him some, but often with KD and RW on the floor he was simply not in a position to show his full potential. He can do that in Houston, obviously. THis is a big reason why I say Martin is a very good player for OKC. Martin puts points on the board without plays being ran for him or him needing the ball. Harden did NOT. Harden NEEDS the ball in his hands and the offense running through him to score. THat didn't happen enough in OKC for him to warrant a max contract. Regardless of how good he is, the ball is going through RW and KD more times than not. Martin complements the Big 2 very very well. He scored a very quiet, but effective 19 pts last night.
He's was always going to be the third rung because your FO and coach are dumbasses for extending and thinking they can actually rely on Westbrook. I said it when they did it and I'll say it again...that move will likely cost them several rings.

[AaronY]

FYI: Harden averaged 30 points per 36 minutes last year when he was on the court and Westbrook and Durant were off it.

Underrated post

[purplengold]

He dropped 37 and then 45 with literally 2 practices with teammates that don't even know each other (11 new players), let alone him, and you won't even admit he has superstar potential?

sayin somebody got superstar potential be sayin they in lines with kb8, 1999 duncan or magic Shaq. to me it a big thing ta be seen as superstar n it takes time. I gotta see him in da playoffs as #1 without having Durant n Westbrook take off pressure from D ta see n believe. you maybe gotta different view on what a superstar, ta me tho it huge n it take time ta consider somebody one

[da_suns_fan]

sayin somebody got superstar potential be sayin they in lines with kb8, 1999 duncan or magic Shaq. to me it a big thing ta be seen as superstar n it takes time. I gotta see him in da playoffs as #1 without having Durant n Westbrook take off pressure from D ta see n believe. you maybe gotta different view on what a superstar, ta me tho it huge n it take time ta consider somebody one

Yeah...because Durant and Westbrook were doing so much watching him go one-on-one and hit a dagger three to knock the Spurs out of the playoffs.

[purplengold]

Yeah...because Durant and Westbrook were doing so much watching him go one-on-one and hit a dagger three to knock the Spurs out of the playoffs.

1 play ain't what define a player

[Kai]

sayin somebody got superstar potential be sayin they in lines with kb8, 1999 duncan or magic Shaq. to me it a big thing ta be seen as superstar n it takes time. I gotta see him in da playoffs as #1 without having Durant n Westbrook take off pressure from D ta see n believe. you maybe gotta different view on what a superstar, ta me tho it huge n it take time ta consider somebody one

I think you are misunderstanding the word potential. I'm not saying he's a superstar, just saying he's shown the potential in a very small sample size.

[purplengold]

I think you are misunderstanding the word potential. I'm not saying he's a superstar, just saying he's shown the potential in a very small sample size.

no why you think I say kb8, 99 Duncan, magic Shaq? Superstar be huge thing, to say one gotta probable potential is huge to me. I'll give you that he on track, but in my eyes it gon take good games against good teams n strong playoff run as #1 ta be potential superstar.

[Lincoln]

Sup purplengold

[purplengold]

sup 5 dollar bill

[Latarian Milton]

FkLA aka shemale porn lova aka the dumbest of all-time is such a dumbass tbh. Beard nigga is a jackass and Linsanity is a solid piece of shit just like FkLA was rebutting when everybody and their moms was speaking truth about both of them.
Que?

[sook]

looks tired out there. The rockets are soo bad lmfao. They need to give a nigga some help.

[RocketsfoLife]

Yeah harden was definitely tired, we got but raped

[sook]

sometimes I post just so I can fap to my sig.

[purplengold]

tellin y'all ta give harden time before jackin off to him like he Jordan. Now wait fo a few dozen games them say he the reincarnation of Allah.

Ima still on da fence

[sook]

tellin y'all ta give harden time before jackin off to him like he Jordan. Now wait fo a few dozen games them say he the reincarnation of Allah.

Ima still on da fence
Are you retarded? nobody was blowing him out of proportion. A couple of good games show that he has the potential to be something, all it does is foreshadow and provide hope. If anything I was extremely critical of the trade. The only reason I wasn't against it is because...fuck martin. I wasn't entirely convinced he was a max player but he has shown glimpses of being worth every penny. That is all, don't read in to too much lakerfan.

[purplengold]

Are you retarded? nobody was blowing him out of proportion. A couple of good games show that he has the potential to be something, all it does is foreshadow and provide hope. If anything I was extremely critical of the trade. The only reason I wasn't against it is because...fuck martin. I wasn't entirely convinced he was a max player but he has shown glimpses of being worth every penny. That is all, don't read in to too much lakerfan.

you aint read this thread bro, people were jumping the gun without realizing that blazers best team he face n they not even a legit contender team. I been sayin we need a sample size n I getta criticized, then he shoot like 30% n I'm here not hatin at all. there still need to be more games ta determine his true potential.

im bein realistic n givin him a chance, I ain't talkin shit afta a bad game. all ima sayin: need mo time ta tell

[Spurs da champs]

Well against an actual wing defender like Matthews, it took Harden 24 shots to get 24 points. lol

[TheProfessor]

Harden missed four or five shots at the rim. He started strong, but seemed to lose his legs even before he turned his ankle. Just appeared tired.

[Latarian Milton]

you aint read this thread bro, people were jumping the gun without realizing that blazers best team he face n they not even a legit contender team. I been sayin we need a sample size n I getta criticized, then he shoot like 30% n I'm here not hatin at all. there still need to be more games ta determine his true potential.

im bein realistic n givin him a chance, I ain't talkin shit afta a bad game. all ima sayin: need mo time ta tell

sook speaks the truth and that's the reason why he's the only venerable rockets fan on this website tbh. harden might be legit but no way is he worth da max, n its too early to say they won in the deal cuz it's still unknown where lamb's ceiling is

[purplengold]

sook speaks the truth and that's the reason why he's the only venerable rockets fan on this website tbh. harden might be legit but no way is he worth da max, n its too early to say they won in the deal cuz it's still unknown where lamb's ceiling is

he been not readin the premature ejaculation that happen when he went ham on pistons

[TDMVPDPOY]

building up false hope, only to fail...

cant wait, cause the rockets will never be relevance again

[Kai]

McHale is gonna run him to the ground, the dude was GASSED last night. He got jobbed at the end of regulation, but I don't really care because the Rockets aren't going anywhere this year anyways. It's gonna be fun watching this core grow.

[GuerillaBlack]

McHale is gonna run him to the ground, the dude was GASSED last night. He got jobbed at the end of regulation, but I don't really care because the Rockets aren't going anywhere this year anyways. It's gonna be fun watching this core grow.

Yeah I don't like his rotations. He should play at least Terrence Jones for five minutes in the first half and see how he plays. Should have called a timeout before the last play of the game too.

[Ice009]

Well against an actual wing defender like Matthews, it took Harden 24 shots to get 24 points. lol

He missed a lot of easy shots. I'd say he was a bit tired, let's see how he goes in the next few games coming off of some rest.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Y! Sports: Looking back on blockbuster deal, James Harden disappointed OKC gave him just an hour to take final offer. http://yhoo.it/UvzpVF (http://t.co/B321C4j8)

[z0sa]

:lol purplengold
:lol all the other dumbasses who called out Harden

[purplengold]

:lol purplengold
:lol all the other dumbasses who called out Harden

alls I said is he a wait n see player right now. ain't said shit bout him fo a bad game

[Clipper Nation]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Y! Sports: Looking back on blockbuster deal, James Harden disappointed OKC gave him just an hour to take final offer. http://yhoo.it/UvzpVF (http://t.co/B321C4j8)
:lmao

Pretty classless by :lolKC...

[thunderfan]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Y! Sports: Looking back on blockbuster deal, James Harden disappointed OKC gave him just an hour to take final offer. http://yhoo.it/UvzpVF (http://t.co/B321C4j8)

I don't buy it. 1 hour? So what? Did you not know about the Oct 31st deadline for MONTHS? Really, on Oct 27th (or wahtever the date was), when Presti and your agent start contract negotiations, this is all just a big shock and you don't know what to think? This guy isn't an idiot. He knows his contract is up at the end of the year, he knows there's gonna be negotiations around the deadline and he's known it for months. You can't tell me the guy hadn't thought long and hard about this. Do I want to stay? If so, what's my bottom dollar? Presti's the boss, period. I don't care how good these kids are or how important they are to the team, you're an EMPLOYEE and you have a BOSS. If my boss gives me an hour to get back with them, I do it. Where do these guys get off thinking the world is going to cave or wait for them. I'm not saying I am happy or agree with Presti trading him, but I can appreciate the way Presti rolls. If I offer a kid 55 freaking million dollars and give him a deadline to respond and he blows me off...fuk you then, bye. Just on the principle of it.

Not to mention the day prior negotiations had already started, Harden was already offered $53 and declined. He's makng it out like Presti just shit on his lap and gave him an hour. Don't act all surprised, James.

[Mel_13]

lol thunderfan.

The emotional, borderline hysterical, responses to every tidbit of news on this subject have made you into a target for ridicule. Your team put financial success ahead of basketball success. Nothing will change that simple fact. Get over it.

[thunderfan]

lol thunderfan (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=34402).

The emotional, borderline hysterical, responses to every tidbit of news on this subject have made you into a target for ridicule. Your team put financial success ahead of basketball success. Nothing will change that simple fact. Get over it.

No, I'm not emotional or angry about it. Its just the way I am. I'm not bragging, but I'm a mentally tough person and I was always taught not to bitch and moan about things and make excuses. It's who I am. Harden seems like a good kid. WIsh he woulda stayed, but I'm also happy to have Martin on board. It just irritates me to see these kids bitch and moan...I hate bitching and moaning, whether its basketball related or not. I respect the way Presti handled it, period. I don't like complainers. Harden is complaining. I only had an hour. Please. People need to show respect, regardless of how great they are. Sometimes you humble yourself. Yeah, you're important to the team, but this wasn't just sprung on Harden. Someone's offering you $55M and gives you a deadline. Man up and respond one way or another. Don't ignore the man, your boss, then complain about how it all went down.

[Clipper Nation]

Tbh, that old shitbag Sterling was rightfully called cheap when he made moves like that....

:lol OKCheap

[djohn2oo8]

Harden is the real deal, but will get run into the ground quick by the dumbass known as Kevin McHale who doesn't play ANY of the rookies in a rebuilding year.

[ambchang]

lol thunderfan.

The emotional, borderline hysterical, responses to every tidbit of news on this subject have made you into a target for ridicule. Your team put financial success ahead of basketball success. Nothing will change that simple fact. Get over it.

Speaking of financial vs. basketball success, the last thing I want to see is the OKC going the way of the Phoenix Suns. Great promise, just never realized.


No, I'm not emotional or angry about it. Its just the way I am. I'm not bragging, but I'm a mentally tough person and I was always taught not to bitch and moan about things and make excuses. It's who I am. Harden seems like a good kid. WIsh he woulda stayed, but I'm also happy to have Martin on board. It just irritates me to see these kids bitch and moan...I hate bitching and moaning, whether its basketball related or not. I respect the way Presti handled it, period. I don't like complainers. Harden is complaining. I only had an hour. Please. People need to show respect, regardless of how great they are. Sometimes you humble yourself. Yeah, you're important to the team, but this wasn't just sprung on Harden. Someone's offering you $55M and gives you a deadline. Man up and respond one way or another. Don't ignore the man, your boss, then complain about how it all went down.

I am not sure what to make out of this quote. It is filled with so much comedy, and to a degree, self-reflection, that I felt this is probably the best post I have read here all week, if not over the last few weeks.

[thunderfan]

I can only tell you where I'm coming from. You can draw your own conclusions. In the end, I'm happy with what Presti did. I'm not sure what is funny about my statement. I'm assuming you've made assumptions about the type of person you think I am. You clearly have no idea. I suppose not everyone shares the same belief as I do in terms of people needing to own up to their own responsibilities rather than complaining about the situation. It's simply my opinion that Harden, while I wish him well, is in no position to talk negatively about Presti only giving him an hour.

[Kai]

I can only tell you where I'm coming from. You can draw your own conclusions. In the end, I'm happy with what Presti did. I'm not sure what is funny about my statement. I'm assuming you've made assumptions about the type of person you think I am. You clearly have no idea. I suppose not everyone shares the same belief as I do in terms of people needing to own up to their own responsibilities rather than complaining about the situation. It's simply my opinion that Harden, while I wish him well, is in no position to talk negatively about Presti only giving him an hour.

He was asked a question, and gave an honest answer. Don't see how he's not in any position to answer questions. This isn't news, btw. The hour deadline story was leaked the day after Harden was traded. Woj took that and confronted Harden about it.

[thunderfan]

He was asked a question, and gave an honest answer. Don't see how he's not in any position to answer questions. This isn't news, btw. The hour deadline story was leaked the day after Harden was traded. Woj took that and confronted Harden about it.

I didn't say he shouldn't have answered and I'm not suggesting that he wasn't truly shocked by it. Maybe he was..? I'm simply saying I can't understand his complaint about Presti only giving him an hour. I guess I'm working under the assumption that people think about enormous issues like this well in advance. Maybe James gave absolutely no thought to contract negotitions prior than 5 days before the deadline?? I don't know.

[Kai]

I didn't say he shouldn't have answered and I'm not suggesting that he wasn't truly shocked by it. Maybe he was..? I'm simply saying I can't understand his complaint about Presti only giving him an hour. I guess I'm working under the assumption that people think about enormous issues like this well in advance. Maybe James gave absolutely no thought to contract negotitions prior than 5 days before the deadline?? I don't know.
Sometimes when you are faced with an ultimatum, it really throws you through a loop. Maybe Harden thought that they had until next summer to come to an agreement, who knows. Harden is a very religious person and stated that he wanted to go home and pray about. He was allowed no such luxury after given said ultimatum. I can see how that can rub someone the wrong way.

[thunderfan]

Sometimes when you are faced with an ultimatum, it really throws you through a loop. Maybe Harden thought that they had until next summer to come to an agreement, who knows. Harden is a very religious person and stated that he wanted to go home and pray about. He was allowed no such luxury after given said ultimatum. I can see how that can rub someone the wrong way.

I don't know. I've got nothing against him whatsoever. Maybe he was misguided by his agent. On the flip side of what you said, I can also understand why it would rub Presti the wrong way when he's offering $55M of the organizations money and Harden doesn't respond. Let's say 1 hour is unreasonable to Harden. Should his corner at not least offer up the courtesy of a response to say...ok, hey we're interested...any possibility of an additional X hours? It's my understanding Harden's at dinner, offers no response, then gets called at dinner being notified of the trade. Whether you agree with the deadline or not, the GM just gave one and you should probably respond in some manner rather than continuing your meal, agreed?

[Kai]

I don't know. I've got nothing against him whatsoever. Maybe he was misguided by his agent. On the flip side of what you said, I can also understand why it would rub Presti the wrong way when he's offering $55M of the organizations money and Harden doesn't respond. Let's say 1 hour is unreasonable to Harden. Should his corner at not least offer up the courtesy of a response to say...ok, hey we're interested...any possibility of an additional X hours? It's my understanding Harden's at dinner, offers no response, then gets called at dinner being notified of the trade. Whether you agree with the deadline or not, the GM just gave one and you should probably respond in some manner rather than continuing your meal, agreed?


"Harden, through his agent, said he needed three days (http://newsok.com/as-devastated-as-james-harden-might-be-the-former-thunder-star-is-getting-the-money-he-wanted/article/3723393?custom_click=pod_headline_oklahoma-city-thunder). Presti stood firm on one hour.

And 60 minutes later, Presti called the Rockets and consummated a rare NBA October blockbuster trade."

edit: click on "three days" for the link, don't know why it's not showing up like a normal hyperlink.

[thunderfan]

"Harden, through his agent, said he needed three days (http://newsok.com/as-devastated-as-james-harden-might-be-the-former-thunder-star-is-getting-the-money-he-wanted/article/3723393?custom_click=pod_headline_oklahoma-city-thunder). Presti stood firm on one hour.

And 60 minutes later, Presti called the Rockets and consummated a rare NBA October blockbuster trade."

And he specifically told Harden, to my understanding, that he would be traded to Houston in 60 minutes. I respect Harden's decision. It's his career and it might be what he needed to further his career in the manner he saw fit. I can appreciate that. I'm just a little hesitant to understand how Harden had not thought about this months in advance, preparing himself for this type of situation. Then again, maybe he was SO confident that he would sign with OKC one way or another that he had not thought of trade possibilities. I think, though, that Harden makes the same exact decision 3 days later regardless, had Presti given him the 3 more days he requested. But Houston wanted an answer right then as well. They wanted it done quick so they had time to negotiate with Harden.

[Mel_13]

No, I'm not emotional or angry about it. Its just the way I am. I'm not bragging, but I'm a mentally tough person and I was always taught not to bitch and moan about things and make excuses. It's who I am. Harden seems like a good kid. WIsh he woulda stayed, but I'm also happy to have Martin on board. It just irritates me to see these kids bitch and moan...I hate bitching and moaning, whether its basketball related or not. I respect the way Presti handled it, period. I don't like complainers. Harden is complaining. I only had an hour. Please. People need to show respect, regardless of how great they are. Sometimes you humble yourself. Yeah, you're important to the team, but this wasn't just sprung on Harden. Someone's offering you $55M and gives you a deadline. Man up and respond one way or another. Don't ignore the man, your boss, then complain about how it all went down.

This post is full of comedy gold, but the highlighted part takes the cake. I suppose it's possible that you're really not aware what you've done in this thread, but you've made excuse after excuse for the actions taken by Presti and the OKC franchise.

[thunderfan]

This post is full of comedy gold, but the highlighted part takes the cake. I suppose it's possible that you're really not aware what you've done in this thread, but you've made excuse after excuse for the actions taken by Presti and the OKC franchise.

I support what Presti did, yes. I also understand that perhaps Harden made the right decision for himself on a personal level and I can appreciate that too. Ive conceded that perhaps Harden was misguided or was not prepared for such a trade deadline, although I still don't understand the necessity to put up much of a complaint about only having 1 hour, given the fact that he surely had months prior to this to align his priorities before the deadline. In the end, Harden, by not responding in the allotted time, made his decision and I fully support that decision. As I've stated, that might have been the best thing for him on a professional level. I'm not concerned with what you find comical or any incorrect assumptions you appear to hold about me.

[Mel_13]

I'm not concerned with what you find comical

Okay then.

[thunderfan]

This post is full of comedy gold, but the highlighted part takes the cake. I suppose it's possible that you're really not aware what you've done in this thread, but you've made excuse after excuse for the actions taken by Presti and the OKC franchise.

Where's my excuse? And what is my excuse? I'm not making an excuse. You're 100% wrong, buddy. Would I have rather Harden stayed? YES. Am I angry or upset that he didn't? NO. I concede that I don't know everything about running an NBA franchise. I concede that Presti was in a position and did what he thought was best. I also understand that James Harden possibly made the best long-term decision for himself. There's no excuses or anger. Just a simple failure for me to fully understand why Harden seemingly had such a big issue with the 1 hour deadline, given all I've said. I don't think Harden knew what he wanted. Ive said for months to my fellow fans that I felt perhaps he wanted to leave and be the big dog somewhere, out of KD and RW's shadow - understandable. Maybe his indecision and inability to be able to accept in 1 hour was indeed a blessing in disguise for him. When push comes to shove and you can't jump at the decision to stay in OKC for what amounted to $2M off the max per year, maybe that's the sign that you want out - again, understandable given his talent and what he could do as a franchise player.

[Mel_13]

Where's my excuse? And what is my excuse? I'm not making an excuse. You're 100% wrong, buddy. Would I have rather Harden stayed? YES. Am I angry or upset that he didn't? NO. I concede that I don't know everything about running an NBA franchise. I concede that Presti was in a position and did what he thought was best. I also understand that James Harden possibly made the best long-term decision for himself. There's no excuses or anger. Just a simple failure for me to fully understand why Harden seemingly had such a big issue with the 1 hour deadline, given all I've said. I don't think Harden knew what he wanted. Ive said for months to my fellow fans that I felt perhaps he wanted to leave and be the big dog somewhere, out of KD and RW's shadow - understandable. Maybe his indecision and inability to be able to accept in 1 hour was indeed a blessing in disguise for him. When push comes to shove and you can't jump at the decision to stay in OKC for what amounted to $2M off the max per year, maybe that's the sign that you want out - again, understandable given his talent and what he could do as a franchise player.

:rollin

So, after telling me that you didn't care what I thought, you go on another long, hysterical tirade that just proves my point. Son, you may think that you're mentally tough, but your posts are written in the style of an emo, 13 year old girl.

One more thing. If you don't realize that you're a Presti apologist, the you're completely delusional.

Comedy gold.

[ElNono]

:rollin

So, after telling me that you didn't care what I thought, you go on another long, hysterical tirade that just proves my point. Son, you may think that you're mentally tough, but your posts are written in the style of an emo, 13 year old girl.

One more thing. If you don't realize that you're a Presti apologist, the you're completely delusional.

Comedy gold.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eAMH0BOyrFk/ThPTDl_4nmI/AAAAAAAAPOA/jWPFEQqRJiU/s1600/FGShaqShove.gif

[ginobili's bald spot]

Who is "we"? I told you guys in the other thread that you are idiots and Harden is a baller. Like I said, the basketball IQ on spurstalk is extremely low.

[Clipper Nation]

:cry "Even though Presti and Bennett are tightwads, I still have to defend everything OKCheap does" :cry

[benefactor]

Mel...reeling in thunderfan...and droppin' him in the livewell.

[thunderfan]

:rollin

So, after telling me that you didn't care what I thought, you go on another long, hysterical tirade that just proves my point. Son, you may think that you're mentally tough, but your posts are written in the style of an emo, 13 year old girl.

One more thing. If you don't realize that you're a Presti apologist, the you're completely delusional.

Comedy gold.

That's fine. I'm trying to explain my thinking regarding the Harden trade. If you choose to continue personal insults, knock yourself out. This is a message board about basketball and nothing more to me. I'm not interested in personal attacks. I simply state my opinion. If you choose to disagree with personal insults rather than a discussion surrounding basketball, then that's your choice. I do hope you have a nice evening.

[Kai]

http://www.nba.com/media/germany/okc-harden-rockets-121030-670.jpg

[Latarian Milton]

Where's my excuse? And what is my excuse? I'm not making an excuse. You're 100% wrong, buddy. Would I have rather Harden stayed? YES. Am I angry or upset that he didn't? NO. I concede that I don't know everything about running an NBA franchise. I concede that Presti was in a position and did what he thought was best. I also understand that James Harden possibly made the best long-term decision for himself. There's no excuses or anger. Just a simple failure for me to fully understand why Harden seemingly had such a big issue with the 1 hour deadline, given all I've said. I don't think Harden knew what he wanted. Ive said for months to my fellow fans that I felt perhaps he wanted to leave and be the big dog somewhere, out of KD and RW's shadow - understandable. Maybe his indecision and inability to be able to accept in 1 hour was indeed a blessing in disguise for him. When push comes to shove and you can't jump at the decision to stay in OKC for what amounted to $2M off the max per year, maybe that's the sign that you want out - again, understandable given his talent and what he could do as a franchise player.
agree on everything you said except that Harden has made the right longterm decision for himself. looks to me he has jeopardised his future by joining a team where he'll never be the #1 guy but will always take the most criticism when the team lose. he might be a good franchise player elsewhere but there's no way a nigga could succeed playing this role on the rockets team imho

[LkrFan]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eAMH0BOyrFk/ThPTDl_4nmI/AAAAAAAAPOA/jWPFEQqRJiU/s1600/FGShaqShove.gif

Greatest gif eveeeeerrrrrrrrrrr!! :rollin :lmao :rollin

[LkrFan]

http://www.nba.com/media/germany/okc-harden-rockets-121030-670.jpg

Oh snap! :lmao

[AaronY]

ESPN Insider article about Harden from today I found interesting:


Is Harden really a No. 1 option?
Beyond his hot start in Houston, Harden excels against elite competition





Should we have seen this coming?


After coming off the bench for the Oklahoma City Thunder and having to share the ball with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, James Harden is flourishing in his role as the Houston Rockets' No. 1 option. He is averaging a staggering 35.3 points per game on 52.9 percent shooting while dishing out 6.3 assists and grabbing 6.3 boards. His player efficiency rating (PER) was 26.0.

Three games in and everyone wants to know: Is "Beardsanity" a fluke or is it for real?

My answer: Harden has done this before, so we shouldn't be surprised by his dominance. Plus, we've been blinded by our undying reverence for per-game averages and the star talents of Durant and Westbrook.

Harden's average of 16.8 points per game last season doesn't scream "bona fide NBA star," but it also tells us next to nothing about his ability to be a No. 1 option.


Why? First, his scoring average was artificially deflated due to playing time; Harden played only 31.4 minutes per game thanks to Oklahoma City's strategy of bringing him off the bench, which is abnormal for a player of his caliber. For example, Harden's Team USA teammates averaged 36.4 minutes per game last season. Harden is averaging 41.7 minutes per game in his first three contests this season, and we're seeing what he can do when he's treated like a star in the minutes column -- even if his playing time is unsustainably high.

Second, this season, Harden doesn't have to share the ball with two other ball-dominant players. There's no doubt that playing next to Durant and Westbrook can have its legitimate advantages (goodbye, double-teams!), but the hard truth is that sharing the court with those two stars absolutely slaughtered Harden's numbers.

Harden's hidden stats
We hear it all the time: Context is everything. When it comes to the fascinating case of Harden, this axiom nails it on the head. Let's start with a baseline. Harden scored 19.3 points per 36 minutes last season. Not bad. Using NBA.com's advanced stats page, we can see how Harden's numbers change depending on whether Durant or Westbrook was on the court, but not both. That takes some digging inside the incredible StatsCube Excel database.

So how did Harden do when he played with both Durant and Westbrook on the court?

A measly 13.3 points per 36 minutes.


Yes, that's it. You know who scored 13.3 points per 36 minutes last season? Brandon Rush. Further, Harden played next to Westbrook and Durant for the bulk of his playing time -- 60 percent of his overall minutes. And contrary to popular belief, playing the third wheel didn't help his percentages. Harden shot just 46 percent from the floor when the Olympian trio took the court, down from his overall 49 percent.

Let's go deeper inside the numbers.

What about when Harden was the second fiddle? Here, we're talking about two scenarios: First, playing next to Durant without Westbrook; and second, playing next to Westbrook without Durant. If you watched the Thunder last season, you know that the former happened a lot, but the latter didn't. Thunder coach Scott Brooks rarely paired Harden and Westbrook together without Durant there to stabilize the attack.

Layne Murdoch/NBAE via Getty Images
Even with Durant and Westbrook on the Thunder, Harden flashed alpha-dog potential.
So, what was Harden's scoring rate per 36 minutes with just Durant? 22.8 points on 49 percent shooting in 250 minutes. And with just Westbrook? 22.3 points on 55 percent shooting in just 63 minutes, an admittedly very small sample size. The subtraction of one ball-dominant star from the equation added nearly 10 points to Harden's scoring rate. This makes sense, but it's helpful to actually put numbers behind the "sharing the ball" concept.

And now, here comes the juicy part: Examining Harden as the alpha dog, when he was released from the shackles of Durant's and Westbrook's ball-dominance.

What was Harden's scoring rate when he was the clear No. 1 option last season?

Try 32.6 points per 36 minutes.


You read that correctly; when defenses keyed in on Harden as the No. 1 option, Harden responded by scoring like Michael Jordan, and he shot 53 percent from the floor in these situations. Plus, it gets better: Harden dished out 6.2 assists per 36 minutes, up from his normal rate of 4.3 assists. And remember, he was racking up all those assists by feeding the likes of Royal Ivey, Nick Collison and Nazr Mohammed.


To recap: Harden as third wheel -- 13.3 points per 36 minutes; Harden as second fiddle -- about 22.5 points per 36 minutes; and Harden as No. 1 option -- 32.6 points per 36 minutes.

Really an alpha dog?
James Harden per 36 minutes by teammate


Teammate MIN PTS REB AST FG% 3FG% FT% 3PA fga fta
Both 1163 13.3 4.5 3.6 46 39 83 4.6 8.8 4.1
Alone 460 32.6 4.7 6.2 53 39 83 7.1 18.2 13.1
Durant only 250 22.8 5.5 3.6 49 40 96 6.2 13.2 7.6
Westbrook only 63 22.3 4.6 5.1 55 50 81 4.6 11.4 9.1
TOTAL 1936 19.4 4.7 4.3 49 39 85 5.4 11.7 6.9
Alpha dog dominance against all competition
So maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see alpha dog Harden taking over the league. He has already excelled in that role before, but you couldn't see it from the treetops.


Now, I know what you're thinking: Of course he dominated against second units. This seems like a reasonable rebuttal. After all, Harden faced some iffy lineups when he anchored Oklahoma City's second unit. Anyone will look like a superstar when he is going against a team of benchwarmers, right?


Well, what if I told you that he dominated against starter-caliber lineups, too?


This is the most fascinating finding when we put Harden's production under the microscope. Using ESPN.com's 2012 #NBArank feature as a barometer for player quality, every unit that Harden played against was given an average rating based on each player's #NBArank score. (For those who aren't familiar, #NBArank asked more than 100 of our contributors to rank each player on a scale of 1 to 10; LeBron James checked out at 9.9 while Eddy Curry was given a 1.2 score on the bottom end.)


With this tool, we can see how Harden did according to the strength of his opponent. To qualify as a "good" lineup, the unit had to average a 5.0 rating or higher. As expected, the majority of lineups that Harden faced as the alpha dog did not measure up. Of the 460 minutes that Harden starred as the alpha dog, only 106 were against above-average lineups.


Let's peel off another layer and look at Harden's production as a No. 1 option against good lineups.


Somehow, Harden did even better against tougher competition: He scored 35.0 points every 36 minutes and shot 50.8 percent from the floor, including an eye-popping 48 percent from beyond the arc. It's not surprising that Harden took more shots as an alpha dog, but he maintained a stellar efficiency while shouldering the load against quality opponents. That's what makes him a star.


Add all these little fragments up and we see that Harden has a history of thriving as the No. 1 option even against star-studded lineups and those featuring defensive stalwarts like Avery Bradley. That's why it's essential that we consider the context before jumping to conclusions that Harden isn't a star-caliber player because of his lukewarm per-game numbers.


He might not maintain his current torrid scoring pace, but there's a good chance he'll be in the conversation for the scoring title. When the Rockets handed a reserve player an $80 million contract, many thought Harden was nothing more than fool's gold. But more and more, it's looking like the Rockets found a true gem.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8599109/nba-james-harden-no-1-option

[noob cake]

HardGOAT

2nd seed here we come

[DAF86]

ESPN Insider article about Harden from today I found interesting:


Is Harden really a No. 1 option?
Beyond his hot start in Houston, Harden excels against elite competition





Should we have seen this coming?


After coming off the bench for the Oklahoma City Thunder and having to share the ball with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook, James Harden is flourishing in his role as the Houston Rockets' No. 1 option. He is averaging a staggering 35.3 points per game on 52.9 percent shooting while dishing out 6.3 assists and grabbing 6.3 boards. His player efficiency rating (PER) was 26.0.

Three games in and everyone wants to know: Is "Beardsanity" a fluke or is it for real?

My answer: Harden has done this before, so we shouldn't be surprised by his dominance. Plus, we've been blinded by our undying reverence for per-game averages and the star talents of Durant and Westbrook.

Harden's average of 16.8 points per game last season doesn't scream "bona fide NBA star," but it also tells us next to nothing about his ability to be a No. 1 option.


Why? First, his scoring average was artificially deflated due to playing time; Harden played only 31.4 minutes per game thanks to Oklahoma City's strategy of bringing him off the bench, which is abnormal for a player of his caliber. For example, Harden's Team USA teammates averaged 36.4 minutes per game last season. Harden is averaging 41.7 minutes per game in his first three contests this season, and we're seeing what he can do when he's treated like a star in the minutes column -- even if his playing time is unsustainably high.

Second, this season, Harden doesn't have to share the ball with two other ball-dominant players. There's no doubt that playing next to Durant and Westbrook can have its legitimate advantages (goodbye, double-teams!), but the hard truth is that sharing the court with those two stars absolutely slaughtered Harden's numbers.

Harden's hidden stats
We hear it all the time: Context is everything. When it comes to the fascinating case of Harden, this axiom nails it on the head. Let's start with a baseline. Harden scored 19.3 points per 36 minutes last season. Not bad. Using NBA.com's advanced stats page, we can see how Harden's numbers change depending on whether Durant or Westbrook was on the court, but not both. That takes some digging inside the incredible StatsCube Excel database.

So how did Harden do when he played with both Durant and Westbrook on the court?

A measly 13.3 points per 36 minutes.


Yes, that's it. You know who scored 13.3 points per 36 minutes last season? Brandon Rush. Further, Harden played next to Westbrook and Durant for the bulk of his playing time -- 60 percent of his overall minutes. And contrary to popular belief, playing the third wheel didn't help his percentages. Harden shot just 46 percent from the floor when the Olympian trio took the court, down from his overall 49 percent.

Let's go deeper inside the numbers.

What about when Harden was the second fiddle? Here, we're talking about two scenarios: First, playing next to Durant without Westbrook; and second, playing next to Westbrook without Durant. If you watched the Thunder last season, you know that the former happened a lot, but the latter didn't. Thunder coach Scott Brooks rarely paired Harden and Westbrook together without Durant there to stabilize the attack.

Layne Murdoch/NBAE via Getty Images
Even with Durant and Westbrook on the Thunder, Harden flashed alpha-dog potential.
So, what was Harden's scoring rate per 36 minutes with just Durant? 22.8 points on 49 percent shooting in 250 minutes. And with just Westbrook? 22.3 points on 55 percent shooting in just 63 minutes, an admittedly very small sample size. The subtraction of one ball-dominant star from the equation added nearly 10 points to Harden's scoring rate. This makes sense, but it's helpful to actually put numbers behind the "sharing the ball" concept.

And now, here comes the juicy part: Examining Harden as the alpha dog, when he was released from the shackles of Durant's and Westbrook's ball-dominance.

What was Harden's scoring rate when he was the clear No. 1 option last season?

Try 32.6 points per 36 minutes.


You read that correctly; when defenses keyed in on Harden as the No. 1 option, Harden responded by scoring like Michael Jordan, and he shot 53 percent from the floor in these situations. Plus, it gets better: Harden dished out 6.2 assists per 36 minutes, up from his normal rate of 4.3 assists. And remember, he was racking up all those assists by feeding the likes of Royal Ivey, Nick Collison and Nazr Mohammed.


To recap: Harden as third wheel -- 13.3 points per 36 minutes; Harden as second fiddle -- about 22.5 points per 36 minutes; and Harden as No. 1 option -- 32.6 points per 36 minutes.

Really an alpha dog?
James Harden per 36 minutes by teammate


Teammate MIN PTS REB AST FG% 3FG% FT% 3PA fga fta
Both 1163 13.3 4.5 3.6 46 39 83 4.6 8.8 4.1
Alone 460 32.6 4.7 6.2 53 39 83 7.1 18.2 13.1
Durant only 250 22.8 5.5 3.6 49 40 96 6.2 13.2 7.6
Westbrook only 63 22.3 4.6 5.1 55 50 81 4.6 11.4 9.1
TOTAL 1936 19.4 4.7 4.3 49 39 85 5.4 11.7 6.9
Alpha dog dominance against all competition
So maybe we shouldn't be surprised to see alpha dog Harden taking over the league. He has already excelled in that role before, but you couldn't see it from the treetops.


Now, I know what you're thinking: Of course he dominated against second units. This seems like a reasonable rebuttal. After all, Harden faced some iffy lineups when he anchored Oklahoma City's second unit. Anyone will look like a superstar when he is going against a team of benchwarmers, right?


Well, what if I told you that he dominated against starter-caliber lineups, too?


This is the most fascinating finding when we put Harden's production under the microscope. Using ESPN.com's 2012 #NBArank feature as a barometer for player quality, every unit that Harden played against was given an average rating based on each player's #NBArank score. (For those who aren't familiar, #NBArank asked more than 100 of our contributors to rank each player on a scale of 1 to 10; LeBron James checked out at 9.9 while Eddy Curry was given a 1.2 score on the bottom end.)


With this tool, we can see how Harden did according to the strength of his opponent. To qualify as a "good" lineup, the unit had to average a 5.0 rating or higher. As expected, the majority of lineups that Harden faced as the alpha dog did not measure up. Of the 460 minutes that Harden starred as the alpha dog, only 106 were against above-average lineups.


Let's peel off another layer and look at Harden's production as a No. 1 option against good lineups.


Somehow, Harden did even better against tougher competition: He scored 35.0 points every 36 minutes and shot 50.8 percent from the floor, including an eye-popping 48 percent from beyond the arc. It's not surprising that Harden took more shots as an alpha dog, but he maintained a stellar efficiency while shouldering the load against quality opponents. That's what makes him a star.


Add all these little fragments up and we see that Harden has a history of thriving as the No. 1 option even against star-studded lineups and those featuring defensive stalwarts like Avery Bradley. That's why it's essential that we consider the context before jumping to conclusions that Harden isn't a star-caliber player because of his lukewarm per-game numbers.


He might not maintain his current torrid scoring pace, but there's a good chance he'll be in the conversation for the scoring title. When the Rockets handed a reserve player an $80 million contract, many thought Harden was nothing more than fool's gold. But more and more, it's looking like the Rockets found a true gem.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8599109/nba-james-harden-no-1-option

I'm not going to say that I knew for sure any of this facts but I expected them. I have seen it with Manu all these years, that's why I don't understand all the hate that my fellow spursfans where throwing at Manu 0.2. Although I have always thought that Manu was also underrated by a big part of the Spurs fanbase, tbh.

[Mel_13]

I'm not going to say that I knew for sure any of this facts but I expected them. I have seen it with Manu all these years, that's why I don't understand all the hate that my fellow spursfans where throwing at Manu 0.2. Although I have always thought that Manu was also underrated by a big part of the Spurs fanbase, tbh.

Fans are always about 'what have you done for me lately', so their reactions never surprise me. I am surprised at Presti. This trade means that he either didn't recognize Harden's true value (unlikely, IMO) or that he couldn't convince ownership to choose one of the several options that didn't involve trading Harden. Either way, a failure on his part.

[AaronY]

Harden disappointed OKC didn't giive him more time to consider deal:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--james-harden-disappointed-thunder-didn-t-give-him-more-time-to-consider-offer-06561809.html

[Jodelo]

Harden disappointed OKC didn't giive him more time to consider deal:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--james-harden-disappointed-thunder-didn-t-give-him-more-time-to-consider-offer-06561809.html

You are slow!

[Pelicans78]

Harden is the real deal, but will get run into the ground quick by the dumbass known as Kevin McHale who doesn't play ANY of the rookies in a rebuilding year.

Why the hell isn't Terrence Jones playing?

[Kai]

Why the hell isn't Terrence Jones playing?

With Rockets young big men playing well, other young big men wait, watch (http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/11/with-rockets-young-big-men-playing-well-other-young-big-men-wait-watch/)



Other than that, his collection of young big men – Terrence Jones, Donatas Motiejunas and Royce White – has been waiting for their first NBA minutes. Jones broke ahead of the pack in the preseason, but that was with Morris out. With Morris playing well – he is the Rockets’ third-leading scorer and making a healthy 46.9 percent of his shots even with his jittery and misfiring start in Detroit – there is little time left, especially with Cole Aldrich stepping in at center the past two games.

“They want to play more and I wish I could play them a little bit more, but I think our average (experience) for our team is under two years so everybody we play is young,” McHale said. “It’s not like all of a sudden we’re saying, “Gee, we’re not playing our young guys to play vets.’ We’re not playing our young guys to play other young guys. It’s just a matter of which young guy you want to play. But we have to try to work them into our rotation as we go.”

Jones in particularly could figure in the rotation, though the Nuggets and Grizzlies – the Rockets’ next two opponents – can go with 7-footers off the bench, making McHale more likely to go with Aldrich. Even with Smith out, the Rockets are playing a nine-man rotation. Aldrich has played in 46 NBA games, Morris in 20 games. Both had previously played almost exclusively in mop-up duty. Smith has played in nine NBA games.

[djohn2oo8]

Fuck McHale. Jones should be starting.

[djohn2oo8]

Everytime McHale puts Tony Douglas in the game i think about goin on some sort of spree.

[pass1st]

So.....is Harden going to get back into MJ form after the half?

[DAF86]

So.....is Harden going to get back into MJ form after the half?

Nah, I say he remains in Kobe form (minus the chucking) for this game.

[Latarian Milton]

say when the beard nig fails to play da MJ mode and the team loses, their yellow fans would think he cost them the game and would pile up tons of trash upon his hairy ass until he cries and dies. whereas the yellow TO generator will never get a pinch of criticism. the chinatown rockets are just not the right team for niggas to play on imho

[pass1st]

say when the beard nig fails to play da MJ mode and the team loses, their yellow fans would think he cost them the game and would pile up tons of trash upon his hairy ass until he cries and dies. whereas the yellow TO generator will never get a pinch of criticism. the chinatown rockets are just not the right team for niggas to play on imho

It's true, tbh. Lin can have 25 turnovers and Harden would get blammed for a loss if he scored 50pts on 75%

[Spurs da champs]

15 shots to get 15 points against a real defender, seems like Harden can't do shit.

[pass1st]

I wonder what's the situation over at clutchfans

[noob cake]

2nd Seed.

No problems.