Not worried here

[thunderup]

We won't play as bad.

Martin needs to be acclimated to the rotation and Brooks needs to play lamb and have better rotations.

Despite all this the Spurs still needed a last second shot from Tony Parker, with Tim Duncan playing out of his mind. And don't even mention Ginobili, he won't play at a higher level anymore, he's beyond the word "old".

[thunderup]

Plus, 1st game of the season. Not worried at all

[AussieFanKurt]

not worried but started a thread

[timtonymanu]

Okay

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Thunder
:lol Vinny del Brooks
:lol Kevin Martin
:lol Westbrick's "defense"
:lol Durant getting his shit swatted by Timmy
:lol Hasheem Thabeet getting minutes

[jeebus]

Duncan played casual while Parker was thinking about raping Westbrick's girlfriend all game. Manu was healthy but sat out because this game would be easily won and it wasn't worth the effort to play. However, Durant played the game of his life and gave it his all; Chuckbrook threw up everything he could yet failed; Martin needed medical attention after the game because he tried so hard.

:lolKC = f:lolcked

[stretch]

not worried but started a thread

this

rofl

[Pelicans78]

When you're a title contender, you don't trade one of your best players just to worry about long-term. Horrible decision by OKC.

Rockets won this trade.

[thunderup]

:lol spur fans and thunder haters alike getting happy about an opening game loss

:lol weak minded basketball fans

[AussieFanKurt]

:lol spur fans and thunder haters alike getting happy about an opening game loss

:lol weak minded basketball fans

son you bring it on your self by posting threads like this. making out you're some superior fan with infinite knowledge amuses me because those fans don't immediately jump online and say NOT WORRIEDDD

[stretch]

:lol weak minded basketball fans

:lol fan of the weakest minded team in the NBA

[Clipper Nation]

not worried but started a thread

And also being the first to reply to his own thread with more butthurt :lol

[jeebus]

:cry non issue :cry

[thunderup]

afk is a dumbass.

Its the first game of the season and you think the game was played to its full potential? You're a fucking dumbass

[thunderup]

:lol fan of the weakest minded team in the NBA
:lol Being swept
:lol bitter about the Thunder and their success

[Clipper Nation]

afk is a dumbass.

Its the first game of the season and you think the game was played to its full potential? You're a fucking dumbass
Tbh, the Spurs were coasting... your Thunder were trying so hard like it was the Western Conference Finals again, and STILL choked... :lol

[Arcadian]

...with Tim Duncan playing out of his mind.

Bullshit. He was playing the way Timmy is expected to play. His second half wasn't even impressive.

[AussieFanKurt]

:lol Being swept
:lol bitter about the Thunder and their success

Didn't Mavs only win the whole thing two seasons ago - what have okc done?

[thunderup]

Tbh, the Spurs were coasting... your Thunder were trying so hard like it was the Western Conference Finals again, and STILL choked... :lol
Still posting like a dumbass, aren't you?

The Thunder were playing about as bad as they could. Part of that has to do with the acclimation of the new roster.

Though I'm not surprised your dumbass forgot to get to that though.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Being swept
:lol bitter about the Thunder and their success

:lol Mavs: 1 ring > Thunder: 0
:lol Mavs: 2 conference titles > Thunder: 1
:lol Mavs: a decade of 50+ win seasons > Thunder: blowing their load in two years and trading one of their best players

[thunderup]

:lol Mavs: 1 ring > Thunder: 0
:lol Mavs: 2 conference titles > Thunder: 1
:lol Mavs: a decade of 50+ win seasons > Thunder: blowing their load in two years and trading one of their best players
:lol bitter and jealous because a 5 year old franchise trumps and surpasses any and all the accomplishments of a 25+ year old franchise

[100%duncan]

Stop getting defensive son. Everybody knew you were going to suck after trading Harden. :lmao

[SpursRock20]

Whatever you have to tell yourself to get to sleep tonight.

[InRareForm]

making a "not worried here" thread after game 1 sounds like you are worried tbh...

:lol

[Clipper Nation]

:lol bitter and jealous because a 5 year old franchise trumps and surpasses any and all the accomplishments of a 25+ year old franchise

:lol Pretending like the Clippers don't own you head-to-head and don't have the same ring count as you
:lol Still deflecting and on the defensive after claiming you weren't worried

[AussieFanKurt]

Thunderup hasn't learnt yet not to argue with Clipper Nation, he will never give up right or wrong :lol

[thunderup]

Thunderup hasn't learnt yet not to argue with Clipper Nation, he will never give up right or wrong :lol
:lmao I don't need to argue with him. He's a freaking clipperfan.

The joke is as is and it trumps any and all.

[AussieFanKurt]

:lmao I don't need to argue with him. He's a freaking clipperfan.

The joke is as is and it trumps any and all.

The fact you think you're superior than someone purely on team you follow is once again, quite funny.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol thunderup (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=35988)
:lol So "unworried" that he's still lashing out at Spurfan, Mavfan, and Clipperfan after that epic choke
:lol Choking harder than Bob Stoops in a BCS bowl

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao I don't need to argue with him. He's a freaking clipperfan.

The joke is as is and it trumps any and all.

1-0 > 0-1 :downspin:

[jestersmash]

not worried but started a thread

[MattBonnerExperience]

:lol stealing the sonics
:lol drafting Jeff Green
:lol :( we lost in the finals but we have 3 stars in the backcourt :(
:lol trading harden for only financial reasons for a team making atleast 30mil a year
:lol it's ok we have Eric maynor
:lol harden won't be good in Houston
:lol keeping Perkins over harden
:lol Ibaka as 2nd in DPOY
:lol making a thread to prove how not worried you are
:lol the owners really caring about okc
:lol all about sacrafice except for the ownership
:lol durant the "2nd best" taking orders from chimpbrook

[fukyoteamclown]

fukyoteamclown

[ElNono]

can't even beat the tired old Spurs on a back-to-back without Gino... this game might not worry you, but Kevin Martin should really give you the creeps, tbh

[racm]

Nah, KMart played pretty well. He's due for an injury though.

[gambit1990]

the thunder isn't as good as they were before the harden trade; without his playmaking the ball will be in westbrook's hands more--and we all know how great of a pg he is.

[scanry]

Thunder hicks were all MIA over the off season. Atleast the Laker Band Wagon in 2008 brought their game even after their finals loss.

You'all were still sore from the Lebron beating back in June.

To top it off, your franchise trades Harden. :lol

I'll say this again, in about 4 years from now, Durant will take his talents to another franchise. The front office will be too busy defending Westbrook from the dumb and bone headed mistakes he's made.

[RocketsfoLife]

Why so salty thunderup

[jeebus]

what's funny is the Spurs will get their 6th man back soon. OKC is stuck with RJ 2.0

[Blake]

I'm worried about that spot on Thasbeet's head.

It's not quite gray. It's almost a urine color.

He should get that checked, imo

[racm]

Thunder hicks were all MIA over the off season. Atleast the Laker Band Wagon in 2008 brought their game even after their finals loss.

You'all were still sore from the Lebron beating back in June.

To top it off, your franchise trades Harden. :lol

I'll say this again, in about 4 years from now, Durant will take his talents to another franchise. The front office will be too busy defending Westbrook from the dumb and bone headed mistakes he's made.

This October... I will be taking my talents to the River City. :downspin:

[m>s]

When you're a title contender, you don't trade one of your best players just to worry about long-term. Horrible decision by OKC.

Rockets won this trade.
only time will tell who's the winner of the deal imho. having harden as their franchise player sounds just as bad as having a 7'6 dick as their #1. they may contend for a playoffs seat now and may actually get it if they're lucky, but a team led by beard nigga will get bounced immediately imho

[Juggity]

Damn, thunderfun is butthurt this morning.

Spurs missing Manu and still demonstrate superiority.

[Trill Clinton]

not worried but started a thread


And also being the first to reply to his own thread with more butthurt :lol


these two posts are what you call ether.

[Dex]

not worried but started a thread

[thunderup]

You can tell of the posters still butthurt about the WCF ouster provided by yours truly.

This game means nothing, other than seeding implications if it gets to that point.

[Clipper Nation]

You can tell of the posters still butthurt about the WCF ouster provided by yours truly.

"Provided by yours truly"? Son, you did nothing but watch the rigged, fixed WCF from home, tbh...

[jeebus]

:lol practically crying in trying to convince us about not being worried
:lol about as calm as a 15 year old black girl with 2 kids in Somalia

[rayjayjohnson]

:lol average fan

[rayjayjohnson]

not worried but started a thread

[TheCultOfPersonality]

:lol Thunder
:lol Vinny del Brooks
:lol Kevin Martin
:lol Westbrick's "defense"
:lol Durant getting his shit swatted by Timmy
:lol Hasheem Thabeet getting minutes
:lol

[WeNeedLength]

"Your's Truly".... hahahah :lmao

Is this the new rakaruva???

[thunderfan]

The number of conclusions being drawn after 1 game is a little stupid. Of course OKC is not as good right now as they were last year. 1 game under our belts with Westbrook playing like a complete idiot. Martin still isn't aclimated to our offense because the only thing he's seen to this point is Westbrook playing like an idiot. The guy had to be standing around thinking to himself..WTF is RW doing? Martin isn't going to make the plays Harden did, but he can score the points. It's up to Brooks to find some combinations that work. I believe with time this will occur. Gotta get some low post scoring though...whether this be Ibaka improving in that area or PJ3. I think PJ3's development could be very important and Ibaka definitely must step it up offensively.

[Cry Havoc]

The number of conclusions being drawn after 1 game is a little stupid. Of course OKC is not as good right now as they were last year. 1 game under our belts with Westbrook playing like a complete idiot. Martin still isn't aclimated to our offense because the only thing he's seen to this point is Westbrook playing like an idiot. The guy had to be standing around thinking to himself..WTF is RW doing? Martin isn't going to make the plays Harden did, but he can score the points. It's up to Brooks to find some combinations that work. I believe with time this will occur. Gotta get some low post scoring though...whether this be Ibaka improving in that area or PJ3. I think PJ3's development could be very important and Ibaka definitely must step it up offensively.

Do you think OKC's ceiling is as high this year as it was last year? Do you think this team is, as constructed, better suited to win the West this year, or beat Miami?

[thunderup]

The number of conclusions being drawn after 1 game is a little stupid. Of course OKC is not as good right now as they were last year. 1 game under our belts with Westbrook playing like a complete idiot. Martin still isn't aclimated to our offense because the only thing he's seen to this point is Westbrook playing like an idiot. The guy had to be standing around thinking to himself..WTF is RW doing? Martin isn't going to make the plays Harden did, but he can score the points. It's up to Brooks to find some combinations that work. I believe with time this will occur. Gotta get some low post scoring though...whether this be Ibaka improving in that area or PJ3. I think PJ3's development could be very important and Ibaka definitely must step it up offensively.
Fair points all across. It's idiots like the ones that follow me in my every post that don't understand common sense as provided in this very post.

:lol all the idiots on this board creaming their pants over a Thunder loss

[thunderup]

Rayfagjohnson and clipper "closet homo" nation with the continued obsession.

:lol scared
:lol obsessed
:lol thinking Blake griffin is a top player in this league
:lol Nuggets continuing to go nowhere
:lol both teams being 2 round fodder at best

[thunderfan]

Do you think OKC's ceiling is as high this year as it was last year? Do you think this team is, as constructed, better suited to win the West this year, or beat Miami?

I do think their ceiling is as high this year as it was last, if not a little higher. Of course having a higher ceiling and reaching it are two different things. Having a high ceiling means I just think there's the potential there for them to be better than last year. The reason I think this is due to the fact that I think Martin is equal to Harden offensively in terms of scoring. Notice I didn't say I think he's overall as good as Harden, just that he can replace Harden's points. The other reason is Ibaka, who I think will show very good offensive improvement this year. The other factors are that Maynor is healthy and then there's PJ3. PJ3 could be the wild card. I'm sure someone will come on here and call him a scrub rookie, but this kid has HUGE potential. Very very smooth shoother, incredibly athletic and long.

[Clipper Nation]

Rayfagjohnson and clipper "closet homo" nation with the continued obsession.
:lol scared
:lol obsessed
:lol thinking Blake griffin is a top player in this league
:lol Nuggets continuing to go nowhere
:lol both teams being 2 round fodder at best
:lol Clippers getting a deep-ass bench for our stars
:lol Thunder trading away their stars
:lol Thinking Westbrick is a top player
:lol LeBron taking a wet shit on your franchise

[Cry Havoc]

I do think their ceiling is as high this year as it was last, if not a little higher. Of course having a higher ceiling and reaching it are two different things. Having a high ceiling means I just think there's the potential there for them to be better than last year. The reason I think this is due to the fact that I think Martin is equal to Harden offensively in terms of scoring. Notice I didn't say I think he's overall as good as Harden, just that he can replace Harden's points. The other reason is Ibaka, who I think will show very good offensive improvement this year. The other factors are that Maynor is healthy and then there's PJ3. PJ3 could be the wild card. I'm sure someone will come on here and call him a scrub rookie, but this kid has HUGE potential. Very very smooth shoother, incredibly athletic and long.

That's a fair point. My observation is that now that Harden is gone, the team will depend on Westbrook to step up more, especially if Durant is off the court. I don't see Martin ever getting dribble-drive penetration against playoff defenses and therefore a lot of that will fall to Westbrook, especially if the other team is focusing on stopping Durant. So much of the NBA is predicated on what "elite" players can do with the ball in their hands, and I see Martin, even with Maynor, offering less flexibility than the Thunder had last year as far as multi-faceted threats go. If Westbrook is on fire, they might very well be harder to stop, but with his constantly bad decision making with the ball, I think good defensive teams in the playoffs are going to stay at home on Martin, focus with doubles or extra pressure on Durant, and just play tight 1 on 1 coverage with Westbrook. The idea in the playoffs is to "force" defenses into making uncomfortable adjustments, and I see far less of that now, mostly predicated on the fact that Martin is a very one-dimensional player. Obviously specialist shooters can be very effective, but I am not sure they are as viable as a third option in today's NBA, especially from a team that doesn't have a lot of inside-out game like OKC. I could be wrong, it just seems like *on paper* they are slightly to moderately more predictable and therefore easier to guard on offense compared to last year.

[thunderfan]

That's a fair point. My observation is that now that Harden is gone, the team will depend on Westbrook to step up more, especially if Durant is off the court. I don't see Martin ever getting dribble-drive penetration against playoff defenses and therefore a lot of that will fall to Westbrook, especially if the other team is focusing on stopping Durant. So much of the NBA is predicated on what "elite" players can do with the ball in their hands, and I see Martin, even with Maynor, offering less flexibility than the Thunder had last year as far as multi-faceted threats go. If Westbrook is on fire, they might very well be harder to stop, but with his constantly bad decision making with the ball, I think good defensive teams in the playoffs are going to stay at home on Martin, focus with doubles or extra pressure on Durant, and just play tight 1 on 1 coverage with Westbrook. The idea in the playoffs is to "force" defenses into making uncomfortable adjustments, and I see far less of that now, mostly predicated on the fact that Martin is a very one-dimensional player. Obviously specialist shooters can be very effective, but I am not sure they are as viable as a third option in today's NBA, especially from a team that doesn't have a lot of inside-out game like OKC. I could be wrong, it just seems like *on paper* they are slightly to moderately more predictable and therefore easier to guard on offense compared to last year.

I don't really disagree with much of what you're saying, but to me the wild cards are Ibaka and Jones. A lot of it depends on how they progress. A lineup of Maynor/Martin, RW, KD, Jones, and Ibaka could potentially be extremely effective.

[thunderfan]

In a way I guess what I'm hinting at is that PJ3 could potentially replace the playmaking that Harden offered. I think PJ3 is potentially a tough, tough cover. He's a poor man's KD, if you will. He can stroke the 3 or take it right down your throat, and everything in between...and he's more athletic than KD. He's a rookie though, so his development is an uncertainty.

[Richie]

I think the Spurs just match up much, much better than the Thunder this year. Martin won't be able to defend Manu like Harden did, which makes the Thunder much weaker. Harden allowed Sefolosha to defend Parker, this year Sefolosha will have to defend Manu which will make Parker much more effective.

Replacing a great defender in Harden with a below average one in Martin will be a big problem come playoff time.

[thunderup]

Kinda wish brooks played lamb. Here's to hoping lamb get some burn when Russ plays like ass again.

[Cry Havoc]

Watching the Portland-OKC game... man, Matthews has a smooooth trey shot.

[Blake]

Some decent trolling imo

[Mel_13]

I do think their ceiling is as high this year as it was last, if not a little higher. Of course having a higher ceiling and reaching it are two different things. Having a high ceiling means I just think there's the potential there for them to be better than last year. The reason I think this is due to the fact that I think Martin is equal to Harden offensively in terms of scoring. Notice I didn't say I think he's overall as good as Harden, just that he can replace Harden's points. The other reason is Ibaka, who I think will show very good offensive improvement this year. The other factors are that Maynor is healthy and then there's PJ3. PJ3 could be the wild card. I'm sure someone will come on here and call him a scrub rookie, but this kid has HUGE potential. Very very smooth shoother, incredibly athletic and long.

:lmao

[Kidd K]

We won't play as bad.

Martin needs to be acclimated to the rotation and Brooks needs to play lamb and have better rotations.

Despite all this the Spurs still needed a last second shot from Tony Parker, with Tim Duncan playing out of his mind. And don't even mention Ginobili, he won't play at a higher level anymore, he's beyond the word "old".

Duncan played "out of his mind"? 20 points and 8 boards on a crap 42% is "out of his mind'? :lmao, seriously? Do you not know who Tim Duncan is? That's worse than what he averaged last year and well below his career averages. It's also worse than what he did the night before @ NO. Straw grasping at best.

Rationalizing our 2nd best player not making a difference = desperate stretch. Manu also doesn't rely on athleticism to dominate monkeyball moves, he's what's known as a "skill player". Low bball knowledge on display by thunderup.

Home team has edge in OT. Statisically didn't need last shot to go in.


Here are some more facts:

No Manu makes a huge difference for the Spurs (you have to be stupid to not realize that). Just like no Harden makes a huge difference for OKC. :lol

Spurs were playing on b2b nights and were tired due to a close fought game the night before in another city. OKC had full rest and several days to prepare for the game.

OKC had to hit 75 foot shots just to stay in the game.

OKC couldn't hit a FG in the last 3 1/2 minutes because they don't have a legit playmaker and got choked out defensively while jacking up contested 21 footers.

Chuckbrick continues to fail against Tony Parker, shooting 36% for his career against him.

OKC got 44% more FTAs

OKC outrebounded Spurs by 9.


Still failed.

You should be worried tbh. Can't beat a tired Spurs team without Ginobili despite hitting halfcourt shots and getting 44% more FTAs even with Martin hitting most of his shots and scoring Harden's former PPG.

[Latarian Milton]

lamb would do wonders for you team if given the time & trust he deserves, and he's also one of the main elements to justify the harden deal imho

[Kai]

http://i.imgur.com/sYYk1.png

[thunderfan]

http://i.imgur.com/sYYk1.png

your point is...? Houston isn't even in the same ballpark as OKC. Get over yourself already

[thunderup]

your point is...? Houston isn't even in the same ballpark as OKC. Get over yourself already
Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Kai]

your point is...? Houston isn't even in the same ballpark as OKC. Get over yourself already

Just thought it was funny that even when they don't play on the same team, they're still together. Chill, bro. I'm a huge OKC fan as it stands

[thunderfan]

Kevin Martin put 35-40 on the board for Houston too. Who gives a shit? It's a one man show. I like Harden, but don't go throwing his stat lines up like Houston is even worth a damn yet.

[Samuel Eto'o]

lol thunder

[thunderfan]

Just thought it was funny that even when they don't play on the same team, they're still together. Chill, bro. I'm a huge OKC fan as it stands

Chilling. I got pissy. Forgive me

[thunderfan]

But 45 for JH on 14-19?! Shit. Lol. They're gonna wear him out.

[Richie]

your point is...? Houston isn't even in the same ballpark as OKC. Get over yourself already

I'm not a hater, but lets be honest. 2013 OKC isn't in the same ballpark as 2012 OKC

[ElNono]

lol not worried

[thunderfan]

lol thunder

Lol soccer, bugattis, and the old ass Mavs.

[thunderfan]

I'm not a hater, but lets be honest. 2013 OKC isn't in the same ballpark as 2012 OKC

The verdict is still out

[Clipper Nation]

Couldn't have said it better myself.
:cry "So not worried" :cry

[Samuel Eto'o]

I'm not a hater, but lets be honest. 2013 OKC isn't in the same ballpark as 2012 OKC

true. We can confidently say that was an awful trade for OKC.

[Kidd K]

OKC's ceiling is 3rd seed and 2nd round knockout this year imo.

Clippers are better now. So I could see OKC being just 4th seed behind them.

[Latarian Milton]

Kevin Martin put 35-40 on the board for Houston too. Who gives a shit? It's a one man show. I like Harden, but don't go throwing his stat lines up like Houston is even worth a damn yet.
truth bomb son, having superstar stats doesn't mean shit when/if you play for houston tbh, even a 7'6 long gigantic piece of crap could achieve 20+10 in houston

[sook]

truth bomb son, having superstar stats doesn't mean shit when/if you play for houston tbh, even a 7'6 long gigantic piece of crap could achieve 20+10 in houston

:lol:lol:lol

[fukyoteamclown]

fukyoteamclown

[z0sa]

Harden had some huge plays against the Spurs in last years' WCFs. This trade, combined with LA looking lethargic, has breathed new life into the Spurs chances of taking the West tbh.

[benefactor]

This thread is going to be year long bump worthy greatness.

[Raven]

still can't understand why they didn't just get rid of perkins instead... but anyway, they got decent value.

[thunderfan]

truth bomb son, having superstar stats doesn't mean shit when/if you play for houston tbh, even a 7'6 long gigantic piece of crap could achieve 20+10 in houston
Do you even bother reading before you reply? I SAID no one gives a shit about stats - ie Martin putting up big numbers for Houston. I don't need a "truth bomb" telling me what I already stated.

[thunderfan]

fukyoteamclown
You're real intelligent

[Spursfan092120]

not worried but started a thread
First thing I thought when I saw the thread

[DAF86]

Are thunder fans really this stupid or are they just trolling?

[DAF86]

your point is...? Houston isn't even in the same ballpark as OKC. Get over yourself already

His point is that your team is worse than last year because of your cheap ass owner, imho.

[thunderfan]

His point is that your team is worse than last year because of your cheap ass owner, imho.

I believe you're wrong. OKC is a different team without Harden, but they aren't any worse. I truly believe that. People look at Harden's two games in Houston and make individual comparisons to him and Martin. Of course Harden is the superior player overall, but in OKC's system, he's no more effective than Martin will be.

[BillMc]

I believe you're wrong. OKC is a different team without Harden, but they aren't any worse. I truly believe that. People look at Harden's two games in Houston and make individual comparisons to him and Martin. Of course Harden is the superior player overall, but in OKC's system, he's no more effective than Martin will be.

If that's true, then Martin will be in the running for Sixth Man of the Year this season. I'm a bit skeptical.

That said, generally, I agree with you. Stories of OKC's demise are much exaggerated.

[DAF86]

I believe you're wrong. OKC is a different team without Harden, but they aren't any worse. I truly believe that. People look at Harden's two games in Houston and make individual comparisons to him and Martin. Of course Harden is the superior player overall, but in OKC's system, he's no more effective than Martin will be.

Are you saying that you expect Martin to post similar stats and have a similar impact in games than Harden had?

[racm]

Harden got Houston clutch baskets. Westbrook makes a fool of himself in crunch time (remember when he scored 43 against Miami then stupidly fouled Mario Chalmers? Or when he let Parker break free for a game winning shot)?

OKC had a nice id-ego-superego dynamic with Westbrook/Harden/Durant, and taking out the guy who strikes the balance was their mistake.

[thunderfan]

Are you saying that you expect Martin to post similar stats and have a similar impact in games than Harden had?

Well, yes, but this isn't a Martin for Harden swap where Martin is expected to go in and do exactly what Harden did. He can't and won't. But he can provide the same scoring output as Harden would have. It's just that the adjustments will have to be made. The dynamic of the team is different now, lineups will change, but with the players they have I believe they are potentially just as good, if not better.

[Stabula]

I strongly dislike the Clippers but honestly I think they're going to seed higher than OKC this year. Their bench is pretty stacked this year. I would be blown away if OKC made it to the finals again ahead of the Spurs or the Clippers. With the Lakers playing the worst brand of basketball that they've played since before I was born the Spurs, barring major injuries, seem poised to take the west.

[Kai]

It will come down to OKC and SA again, IMO.

[smaka]

Worried or not, Spurs>Thunder

[lakerhaterade]

Spurs are currently a better team than the Thunder. It remains to be seen in the long run if Kmart can be integrated into the lineup but I strongly believe he will fit in decently, just not to the magnitude of the uber effect given by Harden.

Still, ATM, Spurs > Thunder

[lakerhaterade]

I believe you're wrong. OKC is a different team without Harden, but they aren't any worse. I truly believe that. People look at Harden's two games in Houston and make individual comparisons to him and Martin. Of course Harden is the superior player overall, but in OKC's system, he's no more effective than Martin will be.
atm, OKC is a worse team without Harden.

I don't even know whether to take the rest of this post seriously or to just toy with you tbh.

[Richie]

Well, yes, but this isn't a Martin for Harden swap where Martin is expected to go in and do exactly what Harden did. He can't and won't. But he can provide the same scoring output as Harden would have. It's just that the adjustments will have to be made. The dynamic of the team is different now, lineups will change, but with the players they have I believe they are potentially just as good, if not better.

Martin can replace Hardens points per game, no question. The problem is that for OKC he was so much more than just scoring. He is far and away a better defender than Martin, he was your 4th quarter playmaker, and he was every bit as clutch as Durant IMO.

Maybe Martin will be able to replicate some of Hardens clutch play, he's never had the pressure of a serious contender so we will wait and see, but he will never be the defender or playmaker Harden was.

Offensively I think the Thunder will be around the same level, maybe a little worse, but defensively I think you will be really lacking. To keep that offence ticking over though, Martin has to play and even if you play Durant at the 4 with Sefelosha to bolster your defence next to Westbrook and Martin, I just don't see you being able to get the stops to win the west.

[thunderfan]

atm, OKC is a worse team without Harden.

I don't even know whether to take the rest of this post seriously or to just toy with you tbh.

Martin needs to come in and give OKC 14-18 ppg...He can and will do that. THat's all James Harden did and ever was going to do in OKC. OKC doesn't need a Harden throwing up big numbers. Houston does. OKC doesn't need Kevin Martin throwing up big numbers. Houston did. THe offensive motor in OKC is KD and RW, period, end of story. That's the situation and the reality. That's why Harden wasn't worth a max contract given the situation and dynamics of the team. Martin is a different player than Harden, but the desired end result is the key here.

[benefactor]

Horrible take.

[thunderfan]

Martin can replace Hardens points per game, no question. The problem is that for OKC he was so much more than just scoring. He is far and away a better defender than Martin, he was your 4th quarter playmaker, and he was every bit as clutch as Durant IMO.

Maybe Martin will be able to replicate some of Hardens clutch play, he's never had the pressure of a serious contender so we will wait and see, but he will never be the defender or playmaker Harden was.

Offensively I think the Thunder will be around the same level, maybe a little worse, but defensively I think you will be really lacking. To keep that offence ticking over though, Martin has to play and even if you play Durant at the 4 with Sefelosha to bolster your defence next to Westbrook and Martin, I just don't see you being able to get the stops to win the west.

Those are good points, but I think you'll see some alternate playmaking lineups and strategies with Harden gone. Harden is far from the only 4th quarter playmaker OKC can throw out there. Playmaking comes in different forms, as I'm sure out know. My whole point is, Martin isn't really replacing Harden. He can't. He's replacing some aspects of what Harden brought, but he's not a replacement. But he's a nice piece of the puzzle still. YOu move some things arounds, make some adjustments, and make it work. I still truly feel we have the players to make it work.

By the way...Jeremy Lamb..very intriguing. This guy could do something.

[Richie]

Martin needs to come in and give OKC 14-18 ppg...He can and will do that. THat's all James Harden did and ever was going to do in OKC. OKC doesn't need a Harden throwing up big numbers. Houston does. OKC doesn't need Kevin Martin throwing up big numbers. Houston did. THe offensive motor in OKC is KD and RW, period, end of story. That's the situation and the reality. That's why Harden wasn't worth a max contract given the situation and dynamics of the team. Martin is a different player than Harden, but the desired end result is the key here.

To say all Harden gave you was points is ludicrous and I think you're burying your head in the sand. Harden did so much more for the Thunder than score 14-18ppg, you can't replace his intangibles.

[thunderfan]

Horrible take.

Horrible, two worded, meaningless response with nothing to support your opinion.

[benefactor]

You are too fucking dumb to bother with typing one.

[thunderfan]

To say all Harden gave you was points is ludicrous and I think you're burying your head in the sand. Harden did so much more for the Thunder than score 14-18ppg, you can't replace his intangibles.

Eh..bad phrasing on my part. Of course it's not all he did. I was just referring to the fact that he would never have been anything but a #3 offensive option in OKC. I fully understand the intangibles he brought. I'd rather have Harden, believe me. I'm just saying, in the not too distant future, with the pieces that we have now, with adjustments, with rotation changes, OKC could be as powerful a team as they were with Harden.

[thunderfan]

You are too fucking dumb to bother with typing one.

Oh, ok. Enjoy your day.

[benefactor]

:lol acting like your coach and can actually coach

Your bag of shit is just getting fuller and fuller.

[lakerhaterade]

Eh..bad phrasing on my part. Of course it's not all he did. I was just referring to the fact that he would never have been anything but a #3 offensive option in OKC. I fully understand the intangibles he brought. I'd rather have Harden, believe me. I'm just saying, in the not too distant future, with the pieces that we have now, with adjustments, with rotation changes, OKC could be as powerful a team as they were with Harden.
So the current team at this moment isn't as powerful? That would make them worse, no?

[Richie]

Those are good points, but I think you'll see some alternate playmaking lineups and strategies with Harden gone. Harden is far from the only 4th quarter playmaker OKC can throw out there. Playmaking comes in different forms, as I'm sure out know. My whole point is, Martin isn't really replacing Harden. He can't. He's replacing some aspects of what Harden brought, but he's not a replacement. But he's a nice piece of the puzzle still. YOu move some things arounds, make some adjustments, and make it work. I still truly feel we have the players to make it work.

By the way...Jeremy Lamb..very intriguing. This guy could do something.

I actually don't hate the deal long term, I think that Raptors pick could be worth a lot and you have some good young pieces like Lamb and PJ3. Personally I dont think you'll ever get back the ceiling that Harden, Durant and Westbrook had but I hope Durant wins in OKC, just after Duncan has retired and the Spurs blow it up.

I agree with your argument that lineups will change to compensate and that's true, but the problem is you've lost such a good all round player that you lineup will never be as complete as it was with Harden. Maynor can pick up his playmaking slack, but won't have his scoring or defence. Martin can replace his scoring but without his playmaking or defence. Sefelosha can replace his defence but without his scoring and playmaking.

I hope OKC wins in the future, I like Durant and would be happy to see him with a couple rings in OKC especially at the expense of LeBron. It's just much less likely to happen any time soon.

[Kai]

You guys need to cool it on thunderfan. It's nice to have an actual Thunder fan around here, and if you keep trying to circle jerk on him he's gonna leave. That would be like killing an endangered species.

[thunderfan]

So the current team at this moment isn't as powerful? That would make them worse, no?

Yes, of course they are worse now. We're 2 games into the whole thing. I thought my choice of words indicated that I believed there was a possibility of them being as powerful with some adjustments, time, etc.

[jeebus]

You guys need to cool it on thunderfan. It's nice to have an actual Thunder fan around here, and if you keep trying to circle jerk on him he's gonna leave. That would be like killing an endangered species.
him leaving would ruin my poll :cry

[thunderfan]

Ah, I'm not leaving. I can take all the crap.

Hey - Thabo was the leading 3 point shooter on our roster last year - 44%.

To clarify - I do AGREE OKC would be a better team with Harden, now and for the rest of the season and probably next season, but I still contend that with our current roster we could be as strong of a team, or stronger, than we were last season. Beyond this season, who knows...What does Lamb turn out to be? ANother Harden? A dud? And PJ3? A lot of unknowns.

[thunderup]

One can't automatically use these first two games as a barometer for choosing which team got the better end of the deal. Until Coach Brooks plays Lamb and solidifies Martin into the rotation, the jury will still be out.

:lol and Harden won't continue to play at this level. He's playing on Jordan mode, he'll come back down to earth.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Martin needs to come in and give OKC 14-18 ppg...He can and will do that. THat's all James Harden did and ever was going to do in OKC. OKC doesn't need a Harden throwing up big numbers. Houston does. OKC doesn't need Kevin Martin throwing up big numbers. Houston did. THe offensive motor in OKC is KD and RW, period, end of story. That's the situation and the reality. That's why Harden wasn't worth a max contract given the situation and dynamics of the team. Martin is a different player than Harden, but the desired end result is the key here.

Westchucker will still be running the offense come crunchtime and you've seen how well that works out. Harden was the one that closed out games against the Lakers and Spurs. You keep telling yourself that Martin can fill that role while Westbrook is forcing shots, turning the ball over and showing the emotional maturity and mental toughness of a 13 year old girl.

[Kai]

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kevin-durant-where-amazing-happens.jpg

[DAF86]

Well, yes, but this isn't a Martin for Harden swap where Martin is expected to go in and do exactly what Harden did. He can't and won't. But he can provide the same scoring output as Harden would have. It's just that the adjustments will have to be made. The dynamic of the team is different now, lineups will change, but with the players they have I believe they are potentially just as good, if not better.

Well. I stronlgy disagree. there's a (slim) chance Martin puts similar ppg than Harden but he won't ever be able to provide the playmaking, decision making or any other things. Martin might be the emptiest scorer of all-time.

And I just don't see how the players you have now can be considered "potentially just as good, if not better". But we will have to wait and see.

[DAF86]

One can't automatically use these first two games as a barometer for choosing which team got the better end of the deal. Until Coach Brooks plays Lamb and solidifies Martin into the rotation, the jury will still be out.

:lol and Harden won't continue to play at this level. He's playing on Jordan mode, he'll come back down to earth.

Dude, we didn't use the first two games of the season to determine that. We all already knew who got the better end of the deal the minute the trade was made, tbh.

[AussieFanKurt]

This thread will go on for 50 pages if thunder fans feel necessary to address every single negative post about their team

[thunderfan]

Westchucker will still be running the offense come crunchtime and you've seen how well that works out. Harden was the one that closed out games against the Lakers and Spurs. You keep telling yourself that Martin can fill that role while Westbrook is forcing shots, turning the ball over and showing the emotional maturity and mental toughness of a 13 year old girl.

Go find a single post where I suggested Martin could fill the closer role.

[thunderfan]

Well. I stronlgy disagree. there's a (slim) chance Martin puts similar ppg than Harden but he won't ever be able to provide the playmaking, decision making or any other things. Martin might be the emptiest scorer of all-time.

And I just don't see how the players you have now can be considered "potentially just as good, if not better". But we will have to wait and see.

Martin is a very heady player. He makes great decisions with the ball, at least from what I've seen. 7 assists to 1 TO through 2 games. Playmaking comes in all forms. You don't even need the ball to be a playmaker. He's certainly not the same playmaker Harden is but he's valuable offensively. We shall see. My opinion is there's a lot of potential with the roster. Ill leave it at that

[Latarian Milton]

lambo has the potential to be even better than beard nig tbh. it's a very tough question at this point of time as to which team won the harden-martin deal, but it does appear to me that both teams got what they wanted. OKC traded their 6th man of the year for financial flexibility in the future, and they also acquired some decent young talents including that guy named lambo who was one of the top prospects from the 12' draft.

houston on the other hand got a media-loved guy that's gonna make a boost to their ticket/jersey sales, a player that they think they can make the new face of their franchise. only pity is james harden is a beard nigga rather than a beard chink tbh

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Go find a single post where I suggested Martin could fill the closer role.


THe offensive motor in OKC is KD and RW, period, end of story. That's the situation and the reality. That's why Harden wasn't worth a max contract given the situation and dynamics of the team.

Now think real hard.

[Juggity]

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kevin-durant-where-amazing-happens.jpg

Not so classy after all, I guess

[thunderfan]

Dude, we didn't use the first two games of the season to determine that. We all already knew who got the better end of the deal the minute the trade was made, tbh.

Another psychic fan who can foresee the future. Making judgements and assumptions before anyone even takes the floor. Typical.

[jeebus]

Not so classy after all, I guess
hmm...same faggot glasses that don't work, he's got the cliché shirt, she's got 7 lbs of make up on. those two STDs deserve each other.

[DAF86]

Another psychic fan who can foresee the future. Making judgements and assumptions before anyone even takes the floor. Typical.

No, I'm just a knowledgeable fan.

[thunderfan]

No, I'm just a knowledgeable fan.

I respect your opinion. We all have one. On the playmaking comparison - yes harden is superior there but Martin has consistently been top 5-10 in the league for years in FT attempts so he gets to the line. He's not exactly a guy that's just roaming the perimeter and shooting the 3

[lakerhaterade]

hmm...same faggot glasses that don't work, he's got the cliché shirt, she's got 7 lbs of make up on. those two STDs deserve each other.
:lol

[Reck]

Yep, still not worry here. :lmao

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Thunder 1-2
:lmao Clippers 2-1

[Spursfan092120]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23650753.jpg

[AussieFanKurt]

lol losing to hawks at home

[thunderfan]

OKC lost the first 2 games in a 7 game series against SA- that didn't seem to matter.
WHy does losing 2 in an 82 game series matter at this point?
Who'd MIami lose to 20 by the other night? You guys counting that shitty team out already too?

[DPG21920]

MIA is a proven champion IMO (meaning that's why they aren't counted out.)

I don't think anyone is counting OKC out - but they are struggling and appeared to make a large basketball mistake this season by trading Harden.

[thunderfan]

MIA is a proven champion IMO (meaning that's why they aren't counted out.)

I don't think anyone is counting OKC out - but they are struggling and appeared to make a large basketball mistake this season by trading Harden.

Have you actually watched OKC's 2 losses? Well, I'm assuming you watched the first one. Their "struggles" have absolutely NOTHING to do with personnel changes or the lack of James Harden. Kevin Martin has played outstanding basketball, all things considered. Hell, they'd probably be doing worse at this point had they not traded for the guy! It's just the same BS - Westbrook and sloppy bball and 20 turnovers tonight.

[DPG21920]

That is the thing Thunderfans don't seem to get about the Harden v Martin argument: KMart's stats have always looked respectable but it does not lead to winning. OKC (given, it's still very early and they need to adjust/gel) looks much different and despite getting a lot of points on a very efficient night from Martin, they lost.

[thunderfan]

That is the thing Thunderfans don't seem to get about the Harden v Martin argument: KMart's stats have always looked respectable but it does not lead to winning. OKC (given, it's still very early and they need to adjust/gel) looks much different and despite getting a lot of points on a very efficient night from Martin, they lost.

Poor defense..turnovers...Atlanta shot 50% from the field. There was bad pick and roll defense across the starting 5. Lots of turnovers among the starting 5. It's one game. Atlanta has some players and they shot the ball well. Westbrook forcing things too many times - a trap he's always fell into, even with Harden on the floor. Westbrook doesn't care if DURANT is on the floor with him, he'll force things. You think he cares if Harden is out there? No. To me, the only issues right now are defensive lapses and sloppy execution on offense.

[DPG21920]

Poor defense and TO's are something you are going to get when you replace Harden with Martin. Martin is an awful defender compared to Harden. Not to mention, he's not as dynamic of a play make so now you have guys with the ball in their hands more (Durant, WB) who while good, aren't as good as Harden in that department. So now they are over working their stars and asking them to do more of something they aren't quite as good at - hence the more TO's. Sloppy execution is another thing you will see more of due to the Harden v Martin swap.

[thunderfan]

That is the thing Thunderfans don't seem to get about the Harden v Martin argument: KMart's stats have always looked respectable but it does not lead to winning. OKC (given, it's still very early and they need to adjust/gel) looks much different and despite getting a lot of points on a very efficient night from Martin, they lost.

They don't look that different. They look like the same ole THunder in terms of how they're losing games. We saw all of this last year, and the year before.

[thunderfan]

Poor defense and TO's are something you are going to get when you replace Harden with Martin. Martin is an awful defender compared to Harden. Not to mention, he's not as dynamic of a play make so now you have guys with the ball in their hands more (Durant, WB) who while good, aren't as good as Harden in that department. So now they are over working their stars and asking them to do more of something they aren't quite as good at - hence the more TO's.

Wrong. OKC led the NBA in turnovers last year. It's just how they roll.

[DPG21920]

How is that wrong :lol? Just because they led the league in TO's last year does not mean they can't get worse (or at least less efficient even if the average does not change).

[racm]

hmm...same faggot glasses that don't work, he's got the cliché shirt, she's got 7 lbs of make up on. those two STDs deserve each other.

No wonder Durant needs Clearasil.


That is the thing Thunderfans don't seem to get about the Harden v Martin argument: KMart's stats have always looked respectable but it does not lead to winning. OKC (given, it's still very early and they need to adjust/gel) looks much different and despite getting a lot of points on a very efficient night from Martin, they lost.


Martin may score 18 ppg but what happens when Russ is Bad Russ and chucks them out of a game, tbh

Westbrook stats in OKC's two losses so far: 16.0 ppg on 28.2% shooting, 4.5 TOs
Westbrook stats in OKC's win against POR: 32.0 ppg on 54.2% shooting, 1.0 TOs

I've never seen a player as inconsistent, tbh

[pass1st]

Why didn't OKC keep Harden? Big deal spending a few million more, he was their second best player.

[ElNono]

Kevin Martin is also not a playmaker like Harden was... guys like Collison are going to miss him a lot... Martin is more of a off-the-curl, spot up shooter type of scorer... he can't create for himself or others like Harden can...

[thunderfan]

How is that wrong :lol? Just because they led the league in TO's last year does not mean they can't get worse (or at least less efficient even if the average does not change).

You were implying that they turn the ball over a lot because Kevin Martin is on the team. They've always turned the ball over a lot. Yeah, it could always get worse, but I don't see it getting any worse in a general sense. 20 is worse. THat's 1 game though.

[DPG21920]

You were implying that they turn the ball over a lot because Kevin Martin is on the team. They've always turned the ball over a lot. Yeah, it could always get worse, but I don't see it getting any worse in a general sense. 20 is worse. THat's 1 game though.

So they are worse so far in the TO department with Martin - so I was right so far....I explained why early on you might see more TO's due to the Harden trade.

[Kai]

So can we call this trade the OKC Blunder?

[thunderfan]

Kevin Martin is also not a playmaker like Harden was... guys like Collison are going to miss him a lot... Martin is more of a off-the-curl, spot up shooter type of scorer... he can't create for himself or others like Harden can...

Sure he can. I've seen him create for himself plenty. He isn't shoving it down guys throats at the rim, but as Ive stated before, Martin is near the top year in and year out in FT attempts. If all you do is spot up and shoot you don't get to the line as often as Martin does. In fact - here's a fact for you: Kevin Martin has shot AS MANY free throws per minute played this season than James Harden. Hmmm..

[racm]

Why didn't OKC keep Harden? Big deal spending a few million more, he was their second best player.

Because Presti extended Porkins before he even suited up for the Thunder and he gave Ibaka big money first?


Kevin Martin is also not a playmaker like Harden was... guys like Collison are going to miss him a lot... Martin is more of a off-the-curl, spot up shooter type of scorer... he can't create for himself or others like Harden can...

Remember how crap the Spurs bench play was when Manu was out the first two games? That's the exact same scenario here, except that Harden's not coming back.


So can we call this trade the OKC Blunder?

Short answer: yes.

[thunderfan]

So they are worse so far in the TO department with Martin - so I was right so far....I explained why early on you might see more TO's due to the Harden trade.

They averaged 16 last year. THey are averaging 16 this year. I Don't know what to tell you. It's 3 damn games.

[thunderfan]

So I'd like someone to tell me why Kevin Martin is getting to the line this season as much as James Harden? I thought Martin was just a spot up shooter than never created any offense..?

[racm]

So I'd like someone to tell me why Kevin Martin is getting to the line this season as much as James Harden? I thought Martin was just a spot up shooter than never created any offense..?

I've never disputed Martin's ability to put the ball in the hoop. What he lacks is in playmaking and defense. He makes Harden look like Bruce Bowen in terms of relative defensive impact, tbh

[DPG21920]

Because you keep confusing "getting to the line" with "play maker". They aren't the same thing. When someone runs around like Martin and is a good shooter, he is able to draw contact and get to the line because you are chasing him around, trying to run him off his spots...Martin is exceptionally good at that, but he is not a play maker. Now Durant and WB have to be. They lost that part of their dynamic offense when Harden was moved.

[ElNono]

Sure he can. I've seen him create for himself plenty.

:lol in 3 games? Dude is a 10 year vet at this point, he's not going to change his game. He can score in traffic, but he's not a guy that can create his own shot or create for others in the half court... I won't argue about fouls, because that's actually one of his strengths, faking contact going to the rim. There isn't anything "new" or "undiscovered" about Kevin Martin. He's done the same thing on the Kings or Rockets. I'm not even saying he's a bad player or bad for OKC... he just brings something different than Harden.

[thunderfan]

I've never disputed Martin's ability to put the ball in the hoop. What he lacks is in playmaking and defense. He makes Harden look like Bruce Bowen in terms of relative defensive impact, tbh

Defense, I don't know. He hasn't stood out one way or another to me yet. Playmaking...my point is he gets to the line a lot. That's a playmaker to me. Some people act liek the guy just stands around and shoots. He doesn't. He drives, creates off the dribble, everything Harden does. As well? Maybe not quite as. He's different, but he's still a playmaker. High volume FT shooters are either great playmakers or big guys that just get hacked down low. Martin is consistently top tier in the league in FT attempts and he's not a big man.

[ElNono]

Playmaking...my point is he gets to the line a lot. That's a playmaker to me.

No. A playmaker is a guy that creates his own shot or draws so much attention handling the ball that creates opportunities for others. Kevin Martin is neither of that.

He can get a pass off a curl and get fouled going to the rim (and you'll see a lot of that from him). Did he create the shot? No. Is he getting freebies? Sure. Completely different things.

[thunderfan]

:lol in 3 games? Dude is a 10 year vet at this point, he's not going to change his game. He can score in traffic, but he's not a guy that can create his own shot or create for others in the half court... I won't argue about fouls, because that's actually one of his strengths, faking contact going to the rim. There isn't anything "new" or "undiscovered" about Kevin Martin. He's done the same thing on the Kings or Rockets. I'm not even saying he's a bad player or bad for OKC... he just brings something different than Harden.

Yeah, he's different. I still think he's a playmaker. Not equal or in the same manner as Harden, but I think he'll fill that role well. He's in a different situation now in his career. He's coming off the bench and expected to do different things. He had 6 assists to 1 TO the other night. I think he's good at taking what's given to him, whether that be assisting teammates or shooting open shots. We'll see. I'm liking what I see at this point, numbers aside. He's playing well. Again, OKC's losses this year are just due to the same ole shit Ive seen them do a lot in the past.

[ElNono]

Yeah, he's different. I still think he's a playmaker. Not equal or in the same manner as Harden, but I think he'll fill that role well. He's in a different situation now in his career. He's coming off the bench and expected to do different things. He had 6 assists to 1 TO the other night. I think he's good at taking what's given to him, whether that be assisting teammates or shooting open shots. We'll see. I'm liking what I see at this point, numbers aside. He's playing well. Again, OKC's losses this year are just due to the same ole shit Ive seen them do a lot in the past.

Well, good luck. The biggest issues with Martin are health, chucking and quitting on the team sooner or later. If none of those happens while in OKC, then you luckied out.

[benefactor]

:lol trying to talk basketball when you don't even know the definition of a playmaker

[lakerhaterade]

:lol playmaker=getting to the ft line

[pass1st]

Because Presti extended Porkins before he even suited up for the Thunder and he gave Ibaka big money first?



Remember how crap the Spurs bench play was when Manu was out the first two games? That's the exact same scenario here, except that Harden's not coming back.



Short answer: yes.

OKC could have easily made room

[Clipper Nation]

:lol playmaker=getting to the ft line

:lmao

Guess that means Vlade Divac was the best playmaker in the history of the NBA :lol

[Jodelo]

Martin is one of the best in terms of "emtpy stats."

And :lolplaymaker!

[thunderfan]

:lol trying to talk basketball when you don't even know the definition of a playmaker

Well, all you do is add little 5 word juvenile comments to the discussion. That pretty much shows the limit of your intellectual capacity and ability to carry on a conversation.

[thunderfan]

:lmao

Guess that means Vlade Divac was the best playmaker in the history of the NBA :lol

Please...try reading. I said if a guy is getting to the FT line a LOT and consistently year after year,he's either a playmaker or a big man. Vlade would be a big man. FT shooting isn't the only prerequisite to being a playmaker, but in MY opinion if a guy is able to get to the line a lot, he's more of a playmaker than simply a spot up jump shooter.

[thunderfan]

:lol playmaker=getting to the ft line

It's a partial indicator of one's basketball style. Some have argued here that Martin is simply a spot up shooter. I disagree. He had 19 pts and 6 assists against Portland. I'd call that making plays. Either way, that's my stance on the Martin situation.

[benefactor]

Well, all you do is add little 5 word juvenile comments to the discussion. That pretty much shows the limit of your intellectual capacity and ability to carry on a conversation.
:lol you talking about anyone's intellect

Every conversation you have here goes like this...you say something, you get called on, you backpedal...rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

[thunderfan]

:lol you talking about anyone's intellect

Every conversation you have here goes like this...you say something, you get called on, you backpedal...rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Again, you've added nothing to the conversation. No input or opinion on basketball. All you're capable of is attempting to insult other people. Quit wasting your time.

Ive not backpedaled on anything. My opinion is what is it. I try to explain why I hold my opinion. I don't change it. Period.

[benefactor]

My bad...I've gotten you confused with thunderup. Sorry about that.

Still...:lol playmaker.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If Martin is spotted up or running a backdoor he can get to the rim. Harden can do both of those things. What Harden can do and Martin cannot is beat his man on iso's and pnr sets. Harden is elite at gribble penetration and Martin, well, he is not.

[AussieFanKurt]

Losing to Minny. Not worried!!

[Suspect]

:lmao

[thunderfan]

Losing to Minny. Not worried!!
Dude. We are 21-5. Are you drunk?

[Clipper Nation]

Dude. We are 21-5. Are you drunk?

With the softest schedule in the league and the most home games of any team in the league so far :lol

[thunderfan]

With the softest schedule in the league and the most home games of any team in the league so far :lol
21-5

[lefty]

21-5

Is that the average FT differential between OKC and their opponents ?

[Stalin]

Is that the average FT differential between OKC and their opponents ?


indeed

[thunderfan]

Is that the average FT differential between OKC and their opponents ?
27-22 is the FT differential.

[KaiRMD1]

27-22 is the FT differential.

In 2010

[thunderfan]

In 2010
No. This season. Look it up

[DPG21920]

No. This season. Look it up

thunderup, answer me this - do you feel that OKC gets more than average calls in their favor?

[thunderfan]

thunderup, answer me this - do you feel that OKC gets more than average calls in their favor?

Im not thunderup, but - KD gets some favorable calls. That's not really a news flash. He's not the only player that gets those. Besides him, no. Westbrook averages 6 a game. For a guy that is THAT aggressive offensively, 6 is a completely reasonable average. Martin can draw them pretty well. 27-22 isn't a great disparity at all considering how aggressive OKC can play. You get guys like KD and RW driving and you naturally have to foul them some unless you want them getting cake lay ins and dunks.

[Cry Havoc]

Besides him, no. Westbrook averages 6 a game. For a guy that is THAT aggressive offensively, 6 is a completely reasonable average.

Tony Parker has been as aggressive (or moreso) than RW during his career (paint points, FG%, etc.). He averages 4.1 FTA per game for his career. And people say that Tony flops a lot. lol

[KaiRMD1]

Aggressive? Yeah, they are aggressive but most of the fouls aren't even from them driving. I've seen guys get called for fouls just for being near Durant or Westfall any time they shoot.

[thunderup]

:lol finally being able to bump this thread

Says a lot about how KD and co are conquering the league on a nightly basis. Yesterday was just one of those nights.

[thunderfan]

He makes 1 more trip to the line per game than Parker. Wow.

[stretch]

Tony Parker has been as aggressive (or moreso) than RW during his career (paint points, FG%, etc.). He averages 4.1 FTA per game for his career. And people say that Tony flops a lot. lol

I don't think Tony really flops a lot. He just has a bullcrap move that draws fouls virtually anytime he wants, where he drives, gets a step on the defender, then jumps sideways into the defender as he goes up for the layup and gets a crapload of undeserved and-1s. It's every bit as bogus as the "swing-through" move that guys like Kobe, Durant and Timmy would use when a defender has a hand out near the ball. Thankfully the latter "foul" isn't supposed to be getting called anymore.

Anytime an offensive player initiates contact, unless the defender seemingly goes out of their way to hit their shooting arm, or shove/trip them, there should never be a foul called.

[thunderup]

:lol fans in here crying about officiating

[Cry Havoc]

I don't think Tony really flops a lot. He just has a bullcrap move that draws fouls virtually anytime he wants, where he drives, gets a step on the defender, then jumps sideways into the defender as he goes up for the layup and gets a crapload of undeserved and-1s. It's every bit as bogus as the "swing-through" move that guys like Kobe, Durant and Timmy would use when a defender has a hand out near the ball. Thankfully the latter "foul" isn't supposed to be getting called anymore.

Anytime an offensive player initiates contact, unless the defender seemingly goes out of their way to hit their shooting arm, or shove/trip them, there should never be a foul called.

Point is, he is in the lane CONSTANTLY throughout his career and has never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game for an entire season. His FTAs have not declined in recent years, so I'm wondering if you're exaggerating the effectiveness/frequency of that move.

[thunderfan]

Point is, he is in the lane CONSTANTLY throughout his career and has never averaged more than 5 FTAs per game for an entire season. His FTAs have not declined in recent years, so I'm wondering if you're exaggerating the effectiveness/frequency of that move.
Parker might be in the lane constantly, but Westbrook is 2 feet above the rim quite routinely. Westbrook is in a league of his own athletically from the PG position.

[FkLA]

I don't think Tony really flops a lot. He just has a bullcrap move that draws fouls virtually anytime he wants, where he drives, gets a step on the defender, then jumps sideways into the defender as he goes up for the layup and gets a crapload of undeserved and-1s. It's every bit as bogus as the "swing-through" move that guys like Kobe, Durant and Timmy would use when a defender has a hand out near the ball. Thankfully the latter "foul" isn't supposed to be getting called anymore.

Anytime an offensive player initiates contact, unless the defender seemingly goes out of their way to hit their shooting arm, or shove/trip them, there should never be a foul called.

So youre saying that when Dirk throws his body into the defender, then fades away (dramatically), and rises up for the shot he shouldnt get the call? Shocking to hear that from such a homer tbh.

[stretch]

So youre saying that when Dirk throws his body into the defender, then fades away (dramatically), and rises up for the shot he shouldnt get the call? Shocking to hear that from such a homer tbh.

Correct, he should not get that call.

[Cry Havoc]

Parker might be in the lane constantly, but Westbrook is 2 feet above the rim quite routinely. Westbrook is in a league of his own athletically from the PG position.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/is-tony-parker-the-fastest-point-guard-in-the-nba/

Tony Parker is the fastest player in the NBA, or was last season. He was (probably still is) faster to the rim than Westbrook. Westbrook obviously elevates better, but does that really offset Parker's *years* of getting into the paint and drawing contact?

http://tinyurl.com/cgukrk6

You're honestly telling me that Kevin Martin, Cuttino Mobley, Michael Redd, Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, and Larry Hughes all deserve to shoot more FTs than Tony Parker?

[thunderfan]

When you elevate you'll draw more fouls. Parker plays on the floor. He's not dunking on, over, through, or around anyone. Westbrook does. Defenses know RW is going straight to the rim. They know if the shot is not challenged aggressively he's dunking it. The fact that RW makes ONE more trip to the foul line every game than Parker is really nothing to write home about. I can't speak to the other players you mentioned

[Cry Havoc]

The fact that RW makes ONE more trip to the foul line every game than Parker is really nothing to write home about.

First of all, it's 6.1 vs 4.4 this season. Secondly, it's the law of averages. 1.7 trips per line at a 78% conversion rate translates to 108 extra points per season. You think that might influence the final score of a game or five? Not to mention wins that it pushes out of reach of the opponent, could force them to take bad shots near the end of a game (a 5 point lead vs a 3 or 4 point lead), or gets the opposing big men in foul trouble. 1.7 FTA per game is a huge difference.

But your theory that WB gets to the line more because he's more athletic really falls apart when you consider just how athletic Parker is and then combine it with the above list. It just makes no sense at all.

[thunderfan]

First of all, it's 6.1 vs 4.4 this season. Secondly, it's the law of averages. 1.7 trips per line at a 78% conversion rate translates to 108 extra points per season. You think that might influence the final score of a game or five? Not to mention wins that it pushes out of reach of the opponent, could force them to take bad shots near the end of a game (a 5 point lead vs a 3 or 4 point lead), or gets the opposing big men in foul trouble. 1.7 FTA per game is a huge difference.

But your theory that WB gets to the line more because he's more athletic really falls apart when you consider just how athletic Parker is and then combine it with the above list. It just makes no sense at all.

Westbrook is shooting 1.7 more free throws per game because he gets legitimately fouled more due to the reasons I've mentioned. And ok it's LESS than 1 trip per game then. A trip= 2 FTs. you want to argue that Westbrooks style of offense and ability to attack the rim wouldn't realistically result in getting fouled more?

[Cry Havoc]

Westbrook is shooting 1.7 more free throws per game because he gets legitimately fouled more due to the reasons I've mentioned. And ok it's LESS than 1 trip per game then. A trip= 2 FTs. you want to argue that Westbrooks style of offense and ability to attack the rim wouldn't realistically result in getting fouled more?

I'm wondering how you could make the argument that Sam Cassell or Ray Allen's game awards them more free throws than Tony Parker has ever had in a season. And yes, I would argue that for his career, Parker penetrates and gets into the lane more than WB, who shoots a ton of long-range jumpers and falls in love with his 3 point attempts regularly, so it should at minimum even out.

[thunderfan]

Parker is not even in the same ballpark as Westbrook in terms of athleticism. He's quick on his feet. That's it. Are you seriously debatin this concept? I don't know that I've ever seen tony Parker dunk the ball. I know he has but it's just not his game. He's shooting floaters, etc. you won't draw as many fouls doing that

[thunderfan]

I'm wondering how you could make the argument that Sam Cassell or Ray Allen's game awards them more free throws than Tony Parker has ever had in a season. And yes, I would argue that for his career, Parker penetrates and gets into the lane more than WB, who shoots a ton of long-range jumpers and falls in love with his 3 point attempts regularly, so it should at minimum even out.

im wondering where in the hell I even mentioned Sam cassell or ray Allen. I'm comparing Westbrooks style to Parker's. and again he's going to the line less than one time a game!

[Cry Havoc]

Parker is not even in the same ballpark as Westbrook in terms of athleticism. He's quick on his feet. That's it. Are you seriously debatin this concept? I don't know that I've ever seen tony Parker dunk the ball. I know he has but it's just not his game. He's shooting floaters, etc. you won't draw as many fouls doing that

I realize you have only been watching the NBA for four years, but are you aware that Parker has led the NBA in points in the paint in the past? Anyone who claims Parker doesn't draw a ton of contact in the pain has never, ever, EVER watched him play. Seriously, watch before you speak. "But zomg RW is so athletic!" Ok. Let me know when he leads the NBA in points in the paint as a guard.

:lmao Usain Bolt isn't athletic because he's just "quick on his feet". :lol

[Cry Havoc]

im wondering where in the hell I even mentioned Sam cassell or ray Allen. I'm comparing Westbrooks style to Parker's. and again he's going to the line less than one time a game!

If you can't understand the line I'm drawing between comparison of drawing fouls, I don't know what to tell you. I'm making comparisons just like you, the only difference is I'm actually supporting mine with numbers. Using athleticism as a basis for free throws awarded kind of goes out the window when you include the above players.

[thunderfan]

If you can't understand the line I'm drawing between comparison of drawing fouls, I don't know what to tell you. I'm making comparisons just like you, the only difference is I'm actually supporting mine with numbers. Using athleticism as a basis for free throws awarded kind of goes out the window when you include the above players.
Yeah. How's Parker scoring those points in the paint? Floaters dude. He's crafty. He avoids contact. Get over yourself. Westbrook takes it down the pipe. He's balls to the wall. He gets hammered more. Quit your damn crying. I've watched the NBA for 20 years. Only near the court in person for the last 4.

[AussieFanKurt]

Westbrick gets half his fouls when he plunges out of control towards the basket. Simple.

[thunderfan]

Westbrook has more shot attempts at the rim. Look it up. And I'll guarantee you the presence of a defender doesn't deter him from the attempt. Parker's at rim shot attempts are going to be more evasive and crafty. Dude isn't going at anyone. He's fantastic at it but his shot style lends itself to less fouls

[AussieFanKurt]

Yeah well I guess when Westbrook is rewarded for effectively jumping and running over people why wouldn't he take advantage of it

[thunderfan]

Yeah well I guess when Westbrook is rewarded for effectively jumping and running over people why wouldn't he take advantage of it
Yeah
ok

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Worried yet?

[AussieFanKurt]

beat me to it :lol

[Cry Havoc]

This thread has the potential for epicness if the Thunder get down a game or two in the playoffs. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

:lol

[Strategic]

Starting a thread with bump potential?

[SpursIndonesia]

First in the west ....... POOOF !! :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Cough.

[Clipper Nation]

Good bump :lol

Harden: 46 Pts, 8 Reb, 6 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Robz4000]

Was just about to go fishing for this thread, tbh.

:lmao Methlahoma

[Cry Havoc]

Good bump :lol

Harden: 46 Pts, 8 Reb, 6 Ast, 1 Stl, 1 Blk

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Refsbrook is better because he's more athletic.

[racm]

Contenders don't lose 3 in a row.

[Clipper Nation]

Worried yet? :lol

:lmao Westbrick with the playoff preview

[racm]

Worried yet? :lol

:lmao Westbrick with the playoff preview

Westbrook always shits the bed against San Antonio. Tbh Harden and Abaka were bigger for OKC in the WCF.

[KaiRMD1]

Westbrook always shits the bed against San Antonio. Tbh Harden and Abaka were bigger for OKC in the WCF.

Think Ibaka can do it alone this year? It's not like they are having Martin run the ball the way Harden did. But then again, Harden took the initiative AWAY from Westbrick, the cancer of OKC

[Baseline]

Westbrook goes 3-11 in the first half. So he goes out and shoots 16 more times in the second, finishing 11-27....40.7%.

Meanwhile, Durant only gets 13 shots. And hits 7 of them, i.e. 53.8%

Seriously, when is Westbrook going to figure it out? When OKC loses, this is what happens about 90% of the time.

I'm a Spurs fan and it certainly helps the Spurs when Westbrook plays like a dingbat. But man, OKC is going to miss Harden in the playoffs. We all know when Westbrook presses, he screws up even more.

[racm]

Westbrook goes 3-11 in the first half. So he goes out and shoots 16 more times in the second, finishing 11-27....40.7%.

Meanwhile, Durant only gets 13 shots. And hits 7 of them, i.e. 53.8%

Seriously, when is Westbrook going to figure it out? When OKC loses, this is what happens about 90% of the time.

I'm a Spurs fan and it certainly helps the Spurs when Westbrook plays like a dingbat. But man, OKC is going to miss Harden in the playoffs. We all know when Westbrook presses, he screws up even more.

Tony also defends Westbrook very well.

[Venti Quattro]

Contenders don't lose 3 in a row.

Again, in the playoffs. How many times do we have to point this out?

[Venti Quattro]

crofl Oklahoma City

[Clipper Nation]

Without the refs slurping them at all opportunities, RefKC really does look shockingly pedestrian, tbh....

[Robz4000]

I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.


I'm beginning to worry here.

[thunderup]

:lmao

[ElNono]

:lol

[Brazil]

:lol

[racm]

Bump

[Reck]

Bump

I think Thunderup caught on. He barely comes here anymore.

First seed ecstacy waning. :cry

[benefactor]

det Pek took a large dump on them tbh.

[Chris]

lol Kevin Martin

[DMC]

You better be worried if you had your mouth operated on at that one place.

[td4mvp2k]

http://www.celebuzz.com/nick-cannon/wp-content/blogs.dir/473/files/2012/11/28/Nick-Cannon-Foot-Locker-Adidas-Commercial-Ricky-Rubio-112712-600x450.png

[racm]

det Pek took a large dump on them tbh.

I like his game, a much more physical version of Splitter but a tad more injury prone.

[Brazil]

Loosing against min :lol

[thunderup]

Bumping this because we're playing down to our competition in Milwaukee and we'll likely lose unless Russ gets his head out of his ass. Like what the fuck man? This season is nearing to be the most disappointing to date.

[Strategic]

Whenever I see K Mart jack one of his stupid shots I cannot quite picture James harden?

[thunderup]

Beginning to become less and less worried here.

[thunderup]

:)

[oh crap]

Nice bump