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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Jazz -- Nov 3, 2012



timvp
11-04-2012, 03:22 AM
In a rematch of last season’s first round sweep, the Spurs once again handed the Jazz a double-digit defeat, this time by a final score of 110-100. However, this one wasn’t always easy.

To begin the game, the Spurs came out firing on all cylinders. They scored nine of the game’s first 11 points and it wasn’t before long that they were up by double figures. In the second quarter, S.A. pushed their advantage to 18 points and led 62-44 at intermission.

In the second half, things appeared to be going well. At the 6:50 mark of the period, the Spurs actually pushed their lead up to 19 points. But that’s when the Jazz made their run -- a 24-5 run to end the quarter, to be precise. In those frenetic minutes, Mo Williams and Paul Millsap accounted for all but two of the points.

Thankfully, the Spurs were able to stop the bleeding in the fourth quarter. Powered by the debuting Manu Ginobili, they scored six of the period’s first eight points. With the Jazz keeping it close, the good guys finally were able to deliver the knockout punch with four minutes remaining. After an Al Jefferson jumper cut San Antonio’s lead to three points, the Spurs scored six straight points (two each from Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Danny Green). Utah never challenged again.

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Tim Duncan
. . . and his great play continued another night. Tim Duncan’s retro act is amazing to watch. He’s playing like he went in a time machine and dialed back history four or five years. Offensively, his running of the floor remains one of his major strengths. He’s hitting from a variety of angles and is a weapon whether he’s on the low block, on the high post or coming off of screens. Defensively, I thought he did great work -- both individually and team-wise -- in the first half. Duncan’s defense slipped a bit in the second half but he persisted and was the backbone of an effective defensive stretch in the final quarter. Through three games, the St. Croix product is averaging 21 points, ten rebounds and three blocks in 33.3 minutes per game on 52.1% shooting from the floor. Wow.
Final Grade: 92

Manu Ginobili
Playing in his first game of the season, Manu Ginobili wasted little time in aiding the bench unit. While his movements were a bit sluggish (which is to be expected when returning from a back injury), he was still able to make plays off the dribble. It was obvious he lacked some rhythm, particularly when it came to passing, but he was still an asset on offense. Defensively, he wasn’t horrible but he wasn’t much help. I’m sure he’ll improve on that end as he works his way back to 100% health. All in all, it was a successful return for Ginobili. Let us hope that he remains healthy.
Final Grade: 88

Tony Parker
It was a highly productive yet uneven outing for Tony Parker. To begin the game, he was scoring very well but he was also turning the ball over a lot. By the second half, he had solved his turnover problem but then he started missing shots he usually makes. To his credit, I thought his playmaking remained steady throughout the contest. The maturity level of Parker’s offensive approach is impressive to watch right now. Other than sporadic one- or two-minute ruts, he’s ensuring that each possession is maximized. His management and awareness of time and score is also impressive. Defensively, Parker had a few good moments but was typically exerting only an average amount of energy -- although it should be noted that Mo Williams exploded while he was on the bench. Like Duncan, Parker’s start to the season (20.3 points, nine assists and two turnovers in 34.3 minutes per game) has been splendid.
Final Grade: 92

Kawhi Leonard
For much of the preseason and the first two regular season games, I thought Kawhi Leonard was trying to do too much on offense. Against the Jazz, he let the offense come to him -- and it’s difficult to argue with the results. Thirteen points on only five field goal attempts is wicked efficiency. I loved the patience he illustrated when driving the ball to the hoop; he's so strong and long that there’s really no reason for him to rush when he’s in the paint. Leonard also passed the ball better than usual. Defensively, he wasn’t a huge factor -- but that’s mostly because the Jazz stayed away from him. I did think Leonard still made a moderate impact on that end with timely help defense and by crashing the glass.
Final Grade: 93

Danny Green
It’s safe to say that any slump Danny Green may have been experiencing has been busted. Following a strong offensive performance against the Thunder, Green authored one of the better scoring games of his career against the Jazz. Even though his 21 points on 8-for-9 shooting looks great on paper, it was especially exciting to see growth in his offensive repertoire. In addition to stand-still jumpers, Green mixed in perfectly timed cuts to the rim and successful dribble penetration against rotating defenders. He has potential to be more than just a three-point shooter and that was evident tonight. While he’s never going to be a great finisher at the rim, he remained under control in his forays to the rim and made good decisions when he reached the basket. Defensively, he was average to slightly above average. Gordon Hayward got away from him a little bit early but Green’s effectiveness on that side of the court improved as the game progressed.
Final Grade: 93

Boris Diaw
The Good: Boris Diaw played outstanding individual defense. He smothered his man (usually Paul Millsap) and aggressively fought for position against Utah’s imposing frontline. His hedges were extremely crisp when defending pick-and-rolls. When the Spurs have played solid defense this year, it almost always involves Diaw being in the thick of things. The Bad: There weren’t many other areas where Diaw was of help tonight. His rebounding was underwhelming, he didn’t look to score very often and even his passing wasn’t exceptional. Diaw needs to start worrying less about fitting in and more about making a consistent impact. Then again, if he’s only going to do one thing well, individual defense is a preferred selection.
Final Grade: 86

Tiago Splitter
This had to be a frustrating game for Tiago Splitter. He did a lot of things really well … but unfortunately those positive efforts will be forgotten because he failed to finish. Offensively, his problem was due to going to the rim with too much finesse. Against a physical team like the Jazz, you must finish with authority. Splitter’s soft flip shots weren’t getting it done, to say the least. The failure to finish also haunted him on the other end. He had a handful of good defensive possessions go bad late in the shot clock due to not boxing out, not pulling down contested boards, needlessly fouling, a late rotation, etc. Despite his subpar outing, I think this was actually a step in the right direction. Through all the miscues, Splitter was a few inches here and a few inches there from having a really strong outing.
Final Grade: 72

Matt Bonner
Well, this was undoubtedly Matt Bonner’s best game of the season. While that’s not saying much, if Bonner is going be a part of the rotation, I hope that he continues not being a total waste. Even though there was some unnecessary hesitation, he knocked down both of his jumpers. On defense, Bonner started off very slowly but eventually found his groove. It remains concerning that Bonner’s rebounding numbers have been anemically low since the first preseason games. If he can’t rebound anymore, his value would fall off a cliff.
Final Grade: 77

Stephen Jackson
When the Spurs traded for Stephen Jackson, a common worry was that he’d try to do too much. As it turns out, that’s not the case at all. In fact, there are nights -- like Saturday against the Jazz -- where Jackson isn’t being selfish enough. Offensively, he hardly did anything in his 16 minutes. I’d like to see him up his aggression level a little bit and demand the ball more because he’s too talented of a playmaker to not be more involved. Defensively, while he didn't particularly stand out, he played with toughness in the paint and was quick to offer help.
Final Grade: 83

Gary Neal
Gary Neal is a gunner. We know that. But, yikes, his shot selection tonight would have made JR Smith blush. Neal was simply firing away whenever he even saw a hint of daylight. While I like when he is looking to score, he can’t go overboard when he’s playing backup point guard. Running the sets and making simple passes is part of the job description, especially when Ginobili is on the court with him. Defensively, he wasn’t very good; their guards got a lot of open looks when he was on the court. Though, to be fair, a lot of those looks were in transition and weren’t totally Neal’s fault. I think he’s a better defender than he was last season but I’m still waiting for more evidence before I’ll be convinced.
Final Grade: 78

Nando De Colo
Out of nowhere Pop decided to put Nando De Colo on the court to begin the fourth quarter. Considering the game was tied, I’m sure De Colo was shocked. (I don’t know if Pop was tired of Neal’s chucking, tired of Neal’s defense or he just wanted to throw De Colo in the fire to see how he’d react). Though we only got to see him for three minutes, I liked how he played. De Colo didn’t waste any time and began unfurling his imaginative passes from the moment he stepped on the court. He missed his one open jumper and didn’t do much on the defensive end. It’ll be very interesting to see if Pop goes back to De Colo in upcoming games or this was just a one-off occurrence.
Final Grade: Inc.

Pop
Pop did well to get a win without playing anyone more than 33 minutes. Limiting Ginobili to just 16 minutes in his return was smart. On offense, Pop worked in a few plays that involved Leonard posting up on the low block. I hope we see more of that. I’m somewhat concerned that Bonner gets a free pass no matter what -- but I’m not surprised. I don’t know what to make of De Colo’s fourth quarter minutes. Personally, I wouldn’t be upset if he gives De Colo and Cory Joseph chances to win the backup point guard spot. Neither Neal nor Mills have played well enough to cement that spot in the rotation.
Final Grade: 85

Offense
Outside of the third quarter, the Spurs were exceptional on the offensive end. In the other three quarters, they scored 93 points and shot a blistering 69.8% from the field. The Spurs got to the line, knocked down their three-pointers and dished out a ton of assists (in fact, 19 of their 29 came in the first half). Other than that one bad quarter and their 18 turnovers, everything else was great.
Final Grade: 94

Defense
After holding the Jazz to 7-for-22 shooting in the first quarter, it appeared as if the Spurs were on their way to another strong defensive effort. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case. The Jazz scored 62 points in the middle two quarters and ended up shooting 49.4% for the game. While San Antonio held Utah to 21 points in the final period, all in all the Spurs can’t be too happy with their defensive effort. Allowing the other team to shoot 56.3% over the final three quarters isn’t going to win many games.
Final Grade: 74

Overall
The Spurs were clearly the better team tonight and it should have been an easier win. Their intensity wavered and the Jazz took advantage. That said, the Spurs bounced back before it was too late to secure the victory without breaking too much of a sweat.
Final Grade: 84

DapDaGenius
11-04-2012, 03:30 AM
I agree with it all but I'm especially the Defensive overall. I'm sure they'd even agree with it. I'm sure next game they'll be more focus on defense, just like how they say they are trying to improve on defense for this entire season. Thanks for the read.

freetiago
11-04-2012, 04:17 AM
outside of mo pulling up in transition and knocking down shots the defense was actually pretty good
if jefferson didnt get hot at the end of the 4th they probably would have scored in the mid 10s

looks like there has been some improvement on the defense end in the first 3 games and they came vs decent offensive teams
neal got a harsh grade
he guns but we know he can hit them
and he hit them efficiently tonight

at this point everyone knows neal is all offense no defense and hes one of the better offensive players in the league
out of the 3 turds id take neal over blair/bonner

DapDaGenius
11-04-2012, 04:35 AM
I'm glad this stuff is happening at the beginning of the season though, it needs to be addressed early on. The players need to experience this early(especially the younger ones) and have it addressed and be working on it, than trying to work on some problem during the play-offs.

BillMc
11-04-2012, 05:03 AM
Excellent write up as always!

I'm really getting worried about Splitter in a big picture scale. He's already 27, and will be 28 on New Years Day. As Bill Parcells used to say: "Eventually, you stop talking about potential. He is what he is."

Ice009
11-04-2012, 05:06 AM
Excellent write up as always!

I'm really getting worried about Splitter in a big picture scale. He's already what? 26? As Bill Parcells used to say: "Eventually, you stop talking about potential. He is what he is."

Not sure how old he is right now, I'd say 27, maybe even older than that.

BillMc
11-04-2012, 05:08 AM
Not sure how old he is right now, I'd say 27, maybe even older than that.

You're right. I just edited my post. He'll be 28 in less than 2 months...

TampaDude
11-04-2012, 08:39 AM
Typical Spurs big-lead coasting...gotta play 48 minutes. They got the W, though...and that's what matters in the end.

dunkman
11-04-2012, 09:01 AM
This season Pop has 3 backup PG candidates, should be enough to find one that fits. Neal is a SG and a defensive liability.

YoMamaIsCallin
11-04-2012, 09:24 AM
The Jazz have one if the best defensive/rebounding front court ensembles in the league. In fact I can't think of a better one. Can you? That explains the struggles that Splitter and Diaw had. Notice that Blair's butt never left the bench. I think Popovich realized he'd be overmatched. It says a lot for Duncan's game that he shone against them.

Hoops Czar
11-04-2012, 09:29 AM
At some point, Splitter and Bonner are gonna have to start producing because Duncan can't continue to play 30+ minutes a night and expect to be fresh come playoff time.

BillMc
11-04-2012, 11:10 AM
At some point, Splitter and Bonner are gonna have to start producing because Duncan can't continue to play 30+ minutes a night and expect to be fresh come playoff time.

This!

Bruno
11-04-2012, 11:26 AM
We are so lucky to see Duncan playing that great at that age. I'm not sure how long it will stay like that, but it's just awesome to witness that.

Aside of that, it's strange to see young players like Leonard and Green a that fundamentally sound basketball. A good coaching staff and the big 3 giving the lead on how to play, do wonders to help young players to mature.

As a Frenchie, it was nice to see Nando getting his first NBA minutes. He did relatively well which should push Pop to give a little more minutes if he can find them.

ElNono
11-04-2012, 11:28 AM
thanks LJ

will_spurs
11-04-2012, 12:05 PM
Thanks for the notes. Maybe you could change the colors in the graph? I assume you wanted to use the teams' colors? (black and blue?) But they are quite hard to discern on my screen, and since the 2 lines look like they cross I was wondering what was wrong with the graph, as it seemed to show one team being way behind for most of the game and pulling an upset at the end :)

I have to say I'm no big fan of the 100-base for grading, probably because I'm in the wine business and it reminds me of Parker (the other one). But mostly I find it a bit weird to use a scale where only a small range is actually used. I expect all of the grading to be between 70 and 100, and most probably between 85 and 95 on most days. I liked the A to F system because it utilizes the full range. It looks like the new system is 70 = F, 75 = E, 80 = D, 85 = C, 90 = B and 95 = A (give or take). I also noticed you kept the letter-based grading for the quick notes, so if you're doing both anyway maybe it'd be worth putting both in the thoughts? The other part being of course the futility in trying to grade performance with such fine granularity (was it a 88-point performance or 89-point? hmmm).

This being said, I really like the forum's new look. Especially the online icons that look like this board is rated PG18 :)

And finally I find it sad to see how low the expectations are for Manu if he can get a B+/88 for this...

BackHome
11-04-2012, 01:36 PM
1.Neal has the same amount of rebounds as Bonnor
2. Diaw needs to do a much better job on the boards
3. First game I have seen but it looks like Matt has lost about 15 pds of muscle he looks a lot slimmer...still sucks though.
4. The following players just play to damn soft......Diaw, Bonnor, Splitter..

I hate the fact that we were the only team who didn't do a move this off season and yes we have not lost but I don't care about regular season and as one poster said Timmy ain't going to be able to play 33 minut every game. RC DO A TRADE AND GET US PF/C....

Roger Freemason Jr.
11-04-2012, 05:29 PM
:toast

Chomag
11-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Great that Spurs are winning early on but Timmy putting in so many minutes needed for it is not a good thing. It's kind of depressing thinking that Spurs are probably only 1 decent defensive big from a ring but it's been the same story for years now in which the FO still has yet to address. Hopefully this time they wake up and get done what needs to be done, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The vibe I keep getting is that the current FO seems satisfied with what they have. I just hope to be completely wrong about that.

jesterbobman
11-04-2012, 06:28 PM
Gameflow: http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20121103&game=UTHSAS

Starting lineup as a group was on the court for roughly 24 and a half minutes(Seems like quite a lot), were +13 as a group in that period of time.

heyheymymy
11-04-2012, 08:23 PM
i agree with what sean said last night about the new guys picking up where they left off last season. green looks more confident and leonard looks more capable so far.

hope pop gives nando more chances.

DPG21920
11-04-2012, 09:56 PM
Emotions (and what could really be serious financial concern with trading Manu) aside - should Manu be on the trade block if it means landing an above average big man? A trade involving Manu would obviously be difficult for various reasons (fan favorite, business reasons, is he tradeable due to age/injury...) - but if someone loved Manu enough to offer up a big for him (say Josh Smith for example), would the Spurs have to do it?

Pros: Manu is an expiring contract. Spurs are deep at guard (even though the quality of that depth might be questionable). He makes enough money to land a quality player.

Cons: Huge fan favorite. He is the reason the Spurs have the best bench in the league most years. Possible financial ramifications of trading someone SA absolutely loves.

So if you can get a big man of Smith's caliber for Manu do the Spurs have to do it for basketball reasons? It would be risky because of chemistry, but the Spurs pretty badly need another really good big man.

RodNIc91
11-04-2012, 11:39 PM
^Simply put: no. They arent that desperate. The spurs would only trade manu if some team with a GREAT established big comes calling. It doesnt even occur to me who would be crazy enough to trade an allstar big for a 35 year old.

spurs10
11-04-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the Game Thoughts! Season is off to a fantastic start!

ChumpDumper
11-05-2012, 12:47 PM
Emotions (and what could really be serious financial concern with trading Manu) aside - should Manu be on the trade block if it means landing an above average big man? A trade involving Manu would obviously be difficult for various reasons (fan favorite, business reasons, is he tradeable due to age/injury...) - but if someone loved Manu enough to offer up a big for him (say Josh Smith for example), would the Spurs have to do it?

Pros: Manu is an expiring contract. Spurs are deep at guard (even though the quality of that depth might be questionable). He makes enough money to land a quality player.

Cons: Huge fan favorite. He is the reason the Spurs have the best bench in the league most years. Possible financial ramifications of trading someone SA absolutely loves.

So if you can get a big man of Smith's caliber for Manu do the Spurs have to do it for basketball reasons? It would be risky because of chemistry, but the Spurs pretty badly need another really good big man.I shudder to think about bench production without Manu. I don't think a star level big man is needed, just a different kind of role player than we have now.

benefactor
11-05-2012, 01:30 PM
I shudder to think about bench production without Manu. I don't think a star level big man is needed, just a different kind of role player than we have now.
:tu

superbigtime
11-05-2012, 02:37 PM
I think 78 is low for Neal. He did just what he is supposed to do and had zero turnovers. 11 points in 12 minutes and he gets a C?

crc21209
11-05-2012, 03:12 PM
It's awesome to see TD doing what he's doing right now. Hopefully Pop can keep him fresh throughout the year to so he can continue to play at this level when it counts in April and May. I was loving the D for the 1st two quarters, and then the 3rd quarter happened, Yikes! But we all know certain guys can light it up in a matter of seconds, and one of those guys is Mo Williams. He's a chucker, but he can be an efficient chucker at times. So, I can't be TOO upset about the D. One thing I hope Pop gives up on is playing Neal at the backup point role. I'm tired of seeing him out there trying to handle the ball. I don't mind him at SG, but PG is another story....

DPG21920
11-05-2012, 05:22 PM
I shudder to think about bench production without Manu. I don't think a star level big man is needed, just a different kind of role player than we have now.

Ya, the depth the Spurs have at SG is full of question marks. It would certainly be extremely taxing on the bench to lose Manu (as these early games have shown). It would be a very tough decision because would getting an upgrade of Josh Smith starting over Diaw be worth giving up Manu when Diaw has been a great fit in the starting line up already?

ChumpDumper
11-05-2012, 05:32 PM
Ya, the depth the Spurs have at SG is full of question marks. It would certainly be extremely taxing on the bench to lose Manu (as these early games have shown). It would be a very tough decision because would getting an upgrade of Josh Smith starting over Diaw be worth giving up Manu when Diaw has been a great fit in the starting line up already?I dunno. I can't say Smith would mitigate the resulting PR disaster either.

DPG21920
11-05-2012, 05:44 PM
The PR disaster is definitely a huge factor. The good news is that Gino might be able to return next year to the Spurs as a FA (although that might be tough financially for that to be realistic). It would be a very tough decision due to all the factors if that situation actually presented itself.

After taking some time to think about it, my gut says that the Spurs should not trade Manu all things considered. Unless it was a no-brainer crazy deal, even if from a talent/age level the player (like a Josh Smith) might be better currently, I don't know if the net gain would be worth it.

MaNu4Tres
11-05-2012, 05:45 PM
The only teams that would entertain Manu in a trade, are teams on the cusp of a title. (Why would teams in the middle of the pack covet a 35 year old player; much less give up valuable younger assets for it?)

If the Hawks, for example, were interested in more cap relief, certainly they could get more in return for Smith by trading for a large expiring of a player of less caliber than Manu ( meaning they'd get better assets attached to the expiring coming in return).

On the other hand, Spurs can't and won't get equal value back for Manu because of his age and with him being an expiring. Even if they could, I still wouldn't trade him. He's invaluable off the bench in more ways than we can count.

Imo, Even if Hawks were interested (which doesn't make sense to me), I don't think Josh Smith starting over Diaw would be worth giving up Manu, when Diaw has been a great fit next to TD.

Spurs just need to improve their 4th big spot in the rotation. One player I'd keep my eyes on is Carl Landry. Come February, once Warriors realize they have no shot at a playoff spot-- Landry will become available.

snickles
11-05-2012, 05:54 PM
Emotions (and what could really be serious financial concern with trading Manu) aside - should Manu be on the trade block if it means landing an above average big man?


aside from the logical and emotional reasons against it, doesn't he have a giant trade kicker?

EDIT: google is my friend. he does, but its only 5%.

DPG21920
11-05-2012, 05:55 PM
Agree with that - Smith was just an example. Manu only makes sense for a team that feels they can take the next step into legit contender. Not many teams in that realm that would also have a big man they might be willing to part with. The Diaw fit is another good point - I thought the same thing. With how good he has been, any upgrade could seemingly be marginal compared to the hit the bench would take sans Manu.

Really it's the Spurs 3rd and 4th bigs that need to be upgraded. Bonner is done. Blair is seemingly done with the Spurs and as much as some of us believe in Tiago, Pop does not seem to and his play has been inconsistent. Spurs need a legit 3rd big that Pop will trust to play consistently.

timvp
11-05-2012, 06:52 PM
I see no realistic scenario in which Ginboili is tradeable. At very best, the Spurs would be simply shifting their area of weakness.

DPG21920
11-05-2012, 07:14 PM
Probably agree - however the SG depth appears to be better than the PF/C depth.

DPG21920
11-05-2012, 07:22 PM
Another couple interesting observations early on:

1) Pace: Spurs this year are one of the slowest paced teams in the league by rank after being one of the fastest paced teams last season (however, the pace of the league overall has quickened).

2) Offensive efficiency has dipped as well. Spurs are currently 9th with 103 points per 100 possessions when last year they were at 108.

3) Defensive efficency has improved since last year (98 points allowed per 100 possessions compared to 100 last year) but their league rank has remained largely unchanged.

jesterbobman
11-05-2012, 07:38 PM
I don't think it makes sense for us to trade Manu, we just won't get enough back unless we're giving up on the season. If a team wanted expirings from us, it's easy to use S-Jax, Splitter, Neal, Blair to have 15m in expiring deals. Trading for an max contract big on an expiring is unrealistic, the other team could just keep him for the savings, or trade for a shitty expiring deal + Assets.

I'd be interested in (semi realistic) things like a Jackson+Splitter for Nene swap(If Washington is terrible, would want to add a SF to play 12 minutes), Bonner+Neal for Amir Johnson, Splitter for Udoh(Would need to add a big Center). Doesn't make much sense to trade Manu if the aim is a title(Even if the chance is only 15%)