It's official...

[Clipper Nation]

Team Red CANNOT win without the liberty movement... should have thought of that before you forced yet another liberal statist candidate on us, Repugs... :lol

[ElNono]

Nope. It's the women and to some extent, growing demographics like hispanics... you just can't ignore them anymore.

[SA210]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/156409_455169181185621_213360519_n.png

[HI-FI]

Nope. It's the women and to some extent, growing demographics like hispanics... you just can't ignore them anymore.

curious son, what exactly should conservatives do for those demographics? cuz I don't know if the liberty movement will mean much to them if they only want more handouts.

[pass1st]

Wonder how this election would have looked with Ron Paul

[ChumpDumper]

Ron Paul would have been done worse than Romney.

Republicans need to stop threatening women. That alone might be enough.

[Clipper Nation]

Wonder how this election would have looked with Ron Paul
http://i.imgur.com/UP5pp.png

[ElNono]

curious son, what exactly should conservatives do for those demographics? cuz I don't know if the liberty movement will mean much to them if they only want more handouts.

At least offer a temp worker program, like Bush Jr did. It's no amnesty, but it was enough to get hispanic's attention (and vote). There's a lot of vitriol talk towards hispanics (even legal ones). But the change has to come from the whole party.

As far as women, stop with the abortion/contraceptive talk. Guys like Todd Akin should be wiped from the party too, tbh.

See, no handouts. It's just small changes on specific issues. Kinda get on with the times, IMO.

[pass1st]

http://i.imgur.com/UP5pp.png

:lol hipster vote must be powerful

[SA210]

Wonder how this election would have looked with Ron Paul


Easy victory for Ron Paul

[ChumpDumper]

lol imaginary moral victory

[timvp]

At least offer a temp worker program, like Bush Jr did. It's no amnesty, but it was enough to get hispanic's attention (and vote). There's a lot of vitriol talk towards hispanics (even legal ones). But the change has to come from the whole party.

As far as women, stop with the abortion/contraceptive talk. Guys like Todd Akin should be wiped from the party too, tbh.

See, no handouts. It's just small changes on specific issues. Kinda get on with the times, IMO.

This, pretty much.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Ron Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Romney = Obama

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol narcissistic Ron Paul supporters thinking this election is about them. It's about the Republican party needing to pander to the religious right and unintentionally losing the support of every other group by doing so.

[Latarian Milton]

if the repubs really wanted to win this one they would've nominated ron paul, or anyone else not named romney tbh. the longer obama & dems hold the house and the senate the more support they'll lose because it's gonna be very tough to make any significant difference in an economy like this, people will get even more disappointed with the democrats come the end of nigga's 2nd term. the two parties were trying to be the shittiest they could and the republicans apparently beat the democrats to this

[coyotes_geek]

if the repubs really wanted to win this one they would've nominated ron paul, or anyone else not named romney tbh. the longer obama & dems hold the house and the senate they more support they'll lose because it's gonna be very tough to make any significant difference in an economy like this. the two parties were trying to be the shittiest they could and the republicans apparently beat the democrats to this

Nice to hear after the fact that the repubs didn't really want to win this one, despite telling me over and over, before the fact, that fate of the nation hung in the balance.

[djohn2oo8]

Nice to hear after the fact that the repubs didn't really want to win this one, despite telling me over and over, before the fact, that fate of the nation hung in the balance.

CG with the 3 from the parking lot..

[Drachen]

:lol narcissistic Ron Paul supporters thinking this election is about them. It's about the Republican party needing to pander to the religious right and unintentionally losing the support of every other group by doing so.

Seeing the OP, this is kinda what I was thinking. If the Republicans pander to the Libertarians, they lose the religious right. If they pander to the religious right, they lose the libertarians. I know that I would prefer the former rather than the latter, but they are screwed either way. It seems El NoNo has the right idea (PUN!).

[Clipper Nation]

Seeing the OP, this is kinda what I was thinking. If the Republicans pander to the Libertarians, they lose the religious right. If they pander to the religious right, they lose the libertarians. I know that I would prefer the former rather than the latter, but they are screwed either way. It seems El NoNo has the right idea (PUN!).

False dilemma... if the GOP panders to the libertarians, they'll attract a lot of young voters who would otherwise turn their noses up at the GOP, allowing them to survive as a relevant party when Gen X and the Milennials take the reins of power from the Boomers... If they continue to pander to Jeebotards, they'll get embarrassed again in 2016 and won't be a major party for long...

[Drachen]

False dilemma... if the GOP panders to the libertarians, they'll attract a lot of young voters who would otherwise turn their noses up at the GOP, allowing them to survive as a relevant party when Gen X and the Milennials take the reins of power from the Boomers... If they continue to pander to Jeebotards, they'll get embarrassed again in 2016 and won't be a major party for long...

This makes sense, but it is also a long term plan I think. They may have to commit to it, knowing that they will likely lose 2016 (and even the 2014 mid-terms). Do you think that they have enough foresight to do this, or do you think that they will see slim margins in all the swing states and nationally and think, well we almost got it. Just have to try harder next time.

[SnakeBoy]

At least offer a temp worker program, like Bush Jr did. It's no amnesty, but it was enough to get hispanic's attention (and vote). There's a lot of vitriol talk towards hispanics (even legal ones). But the change has to come from the whole party.

As far as women, stop with the abortion/contraceptive talk. Guys like Todd Akin should be wiped from the party too, tbh.

See, no handouts. It's just small changes on specific issues. Kinda get on with the times, IMO.


Well he sort of did, he just never really talked about it....


Make The Temporary Worker Visa System Functional:
•As president, Mitt Romney will make the system for bringing in temporary agricultural workers and other seasonal workers functional for both employers and immigrants. We should get rid of unnecessary requirements that delay issuance of a visa, and we should speed the processing of applications.
•Mitt Romney will work with Congress, states, and employers to properly set the cap on non-agricultural temporary worker visas. Many tourist-oriented businesses in the United States rely on these workers and would have to cut back or cease operations if there are not enough visas.

There should be a new rule in the GOP that if you are attacking Rick Perry as being soft on illegal immigration you've gone too far right.

I don't think being pro life (to an extent) is a losing issue, at least according to polls it isn't, but you're right that these extreme "you must have your rape baby" nutjobs need to be flushed out of the party.



It's funny though to hear all the analysis of how the gop needs to change and what went wrong for Romney. Nobody seems to mention that this is the second election where the GOP candidate has been someone that most republican & conservative voters didn't really like. Maybe that should be baby step 1 for the gop.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't know if they'd actually lose in 2016 if they swung libertarian, provided they nominate the right guy (i.e. not a fraud like Rubio or Jeb Bush pretending to be a libertarian)... the states' votes to legalize marijuana and gay marriage shows that society is definitely moving towards a more laissez-faire, small-government attitude on social issues... as the dollar gets debased even more, people will also finally wake up to the importance of having a sound monetary policy too...

[SnakeBoy]

I don't know if they'd actually lose in 2016 if they swung libertarian, provided they nominate the right guy (i.e. not a fraud like Rubio or Jeb Bush pretending to be a libertarian)... the states' votes to legalize marijuana and gay marriage shows that society is definitely moving towards a more laissez-faire, small-government attitude on social issues... as the dollar gets debased even more, people will also finally wake up to the importance of having a sound monetary policy too...

Was Gary Johnson the right kind of libertarian?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

False dilemma... if the GOP panders to the libertarians, they'll attract a lot of young voters who would otherwise turn their noses up at the GOP, allowing them to survive as a relevant party when Gen X and the Milennials take the reins of power from the Boomers... If they continue to pander to Jeebotards, they'll get embarrassed again in 2016 and won't be a major party for long...
If the GOP becomes more Libertarian they'd undoubtedly get more support from young people but their economic views hurt them more than they think. Young people in this country have attended college at a higher rate than other generations and they see through the trickle down fairytale that is GOP economics. The GOP's only real fix to their problems is to move further to the left. Baby boomers were stupid enough to buy into it, but young people don't for one second buy into the notion that the Koch brothers are heroic job creators who do great things for America the lower their taxes are. When your economic policy is really a hidden agenda to pander to the rich disguised as a fairytale, it isn't very sustainable.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't think being pro life (to an extent) is a losing issue, at least according to polls it isn't, but you're right that these extreme "you must have your rape baby" nutjobs need to be flushed out of the party.

I dunno. Women were 53% of voters and Romney was -11 on that group. Women are more pro-choice than men. That's a huge problem for the GOP.


It's funny though to hear all the analysis of how the gop needs to change and what went wrong for Romney. Nobody seems to mention that this is the second election where the GOP candidate has been someone that most republican & conservative voters didn't really like. Maybe that should be baby step 1 for the gop.

I'd think that step 1 for the GOP should be to ask themselves why they should think a strong social conservative who would be popular with the religious right could win a general election when they can't even win their own party's nomination?

[Clipper Nation]

Tbh, libertarian economics =/= GOP economics... libertarians want to fix the disaster that is our monetary policy by restoring sound money... a big part of the reason why the economic climate is so shitty for young people is because of decades of Fed-engineered boom and bust cycles along with the constant debasement of our fiat currency... just getting back to sound money alone will do a world of good for the economy, imho...

[Clipper Nation]

Was Gary Johnson the right kind of libertarian?

Actually, no... Gary Johnson was just flat-out wrong on a number of libertarian issues, including drones, "humanitarian" wars, and the Federal Reserve (which he naively thinks is a public construct that we can regulate instead of a private cartel that needs to be abolished)...

[SnakeBoy]

Tbh, libertarian economics =/= GOP economics... libertarians want to fix the disaster that is our monetary policy by restoring sound money... a big part of the reason why the economic climate is so shitty for young people is because of decades of Fed-engineered boom and bust cycles along with the constant debasement of our fiat currency... just getting back to sound money alone will do a world of good for the economy, imho...

Does sound money = gold standard?

[Drachen]

I don't know if they'd actually lose in 2016 if they swung libertarian, provided they nominate the right guy (i.e. not a fraud like Rubio or Jeb Bush pretending to be a libertarian)... the states' votes to legalize marijuana and gay marriage shows that society is definitely moving towards a more laissez-faire, small-government attitude on social issues... as the dollar gets debased even more, people will also finally wake up to the importance of having a sound monetary policy too...

It would take at least two years for them to get their shit together and decide to jettison the cons, and actually jettison them. Then they start talking up their libertarian POVs. Do you think that all of these young people will build up trust for the party in two short years?

I think that they have to change their stripes and take their lumps for a few years before this big of a transformation is to work.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't think being pro life (to an extent) is a losing issue, at least according to polls it isn't, but you're right that these extreme "you must have your rape baby" nutjobs need to be flushed out of the party.

The underlying problem is that pro-lifers have a logically flawed argument if they allow for exceptions in the event of rape or incest. It's a damned of you do, damned if you don't scenario.

A) If you say abortion shouldn't be allowed for rape or incest, then you're an insensitive asshole and you'll get clobbered by the woman vote.

B) If you say it should be allowed, you come off as reasonable to most, but you also undercut your stance that abortion truly is murder and bring it into question. If you truly believe abortion is murder then you would think there's no scenario where abortion is acceptable.


The reason Mourdock and Akin give these quotes is because they're trying to wiggle out of A) or B). Of course what they say ends up sounding dumber than A) or B) and it backfires, but their quotes speak to the larger quandry for Republicans that it's impossible to have a logically sound pro-life stance while not coming off as an asshole to women.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh, libertarian economics =/= GOP economics... libertarians want to fix the disaster that is our monetary policy by restoring sound money... a big part of the reason why the economic climate is so shitty for young people is because of decades of Fed-engineered boom and bust cycles along with the constant debasement of our fiat currency... just getting back to sound money alone will do a world of good for the economy, imho...
AFAIK, libertarians believe in the SMALL GOVERNMENT = BEST GOVERNMENT! stuff. Lets just say I have a family member who's a major player in the Libertarian party (you can PM me if you're curious who) who's is a really close friend of Ron Paul's and her economic views are batshit. She preaches the same, "REGULATION HURTS JOB CREATORS!" crap the GOP preaches. For example she has the same views of the EPA that a typical GOP politician who gets Koch money has.

Yes, the kill the fed movement and restore the currency movement is something young people could get behind, but they see through the bullshit trickle down, deregulate everything stuff.

[Clipper Nation]

As a disappointed member, the Libertarian Party is not a real representation of libertarianism anymore.... the Koch Bros. came in, took over, and turned it into a brazen money grab for tax dollars...

Regulation such as the EPA does suck, but not because it TAKES OUR JARBS... it's because regulatory bodies become corrupted the minute industry experts and special interest groups inevitably make the regulators their bitch.... if you get rid of the regulatory bodies and the lobbyist shills that come with them, actual progress could be made on punishing polluters in court without lobbyist interference.... the fines that the EPA levies are a total joke anyway that don't stop polluters....

Ultimately, even though these regulatory bodies are set up with good intentions, they always become a way for the 1% to rig the game in their favor...

[Clipper Nation]

Also, being against the EPA doesn't mean libertarians are against any environmental regulation at all, we just think it should be handled at the state level instead of through a bloated, one-size-fits-none federal bureaucracy...