PreK4

[CosmicCowboy]

Never underestimate the stupidity of San Antonio voters.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Never underestimate the self centered bias of baby boomers.

[TeyshaBlue]

That POS Pre K passed?

Amazing.

[CosmicCowboy]

That POS Pre K passed?

Amazing.

Yep

Because of stupid fucks like fuzzy lumnpkins apparently.

[Trainwreck2100]

Never underestimate the self centered bias of baby boomers.

i'm no baby boomer and i can tell you that was a shit plan, a sales tax hike that only benefits 4000 kids some for half a day, just stupid

[CosmicCowboy]

Pretty easy to see where the gullible uninformed voters were...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/elections/item/Pre-K-Voting-12658.php

[Latarian Milton]

not nearly as bad as californian voters imho. the state of cali has supported the democratic candidate for 7 consecutive times including this one, i think the only way for republicans to win cali is by nominating schwarzenegger as their presidential candidate imho

[coyotes_geek]

i think the only way for republicans to win cali is by nominating schwarzenegger as their presidential candidate imho

Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution says hi.

[Latarian Milton]

Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution says hi.
obama's presidency says hi too, they can always find a way to circumvent the constitution can't they? as the democrats could do this, i don't see why the republicans can't tbh

[coyotes_geek]

obama's presidency says hi too, they can always find a way to circumvent the constitution can't they? as the democrats could do this, i don't see why the republicans can't tbh

Apparantely my birther-radar needs some service. Carry on.

[Drachen]

Never underestimate the self centered bias of baby boomers.


I think I am the exact same age as you... Prek4SA is a well-meaning, horribly thought out, turd of a plan.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Arizona also had a sales tax hike for education plan that failed. I'm usually always for added education funding, but the last thing this country needs anywhere is more sales tax. It's a regressive tax that ends up hurting the middle class and low income Americans more than anyone else. Idk why Democrats support it and think it's a good idea.

[CosmicCowboy]

This isn't about furthering education, it's about furthering Julian Castro's political ambitions.

Stupid, stupid people.

[Soul_Patch]

Was pretty bummed to see this pass. Unfortunately it wasn't on our ballot for some reason.

[TeyshaBlue]

How is this a boomer-centric issue?

I'm the guy that turned off the light and shut the door on the boomer bracket....I sure as hell don't have any pre-k children. Grandchildren, barely.

[jeebus]

:lol city of SA raising kids

[Drachen]

How is this a boomer-centric issue?

I'm the guy that turned off the light and shut the door on the boomer bracket....I sure as hell don't have any pre-k children. Grandchildren, barely.

I think Fuzzy just takes any chance to crack a shot at boomers, no matter how inane.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm pretty inane, tbh.:lol

[Drachen]

The shot, not the boomer. :lol

but glad to see you own that.

[MannyIsGod]

I didn't really read the thread on this from before but can someone explain to me why the plan is so bad?

[coyotes_geek]

I didn't really read the thread on this from before but can someone explain to me why the plan is so bad?

Pre-K is already available through the school districts and this tax increase puts the city sales tax rate at the maximum they're allowed to charge per state law. So basically the City gave up all their remaining taxing capacity in order to provide an essentially redundant service to what the school districts are already providing.

[MannyIsGod]

Pretty easy to see where the gullible uninformed voters were...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/elections/item/Pre-K-Voting-12658.php

This is a bullshit comment, btw. There are reasons the votes split along those geographic lines and I promsise that you've benefitted from the split far more than this tax increase is giong to hurt. City infrastructure is also split along those geographic lines in a very very skewed way.

[TeyshaBlue]

Here's the original discussion, Manny.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201988

[CosmicCowboy]

Pre-K is already available through the school districts and this tax increase puts the city sales tax rate at the maximum they're allowed to charge per state law. So basically the City gave up all their remaining taxing capacity in order to provide an essentially redundant service to what the school districts are already providing.

It simply moves 2000 kids already being served by their neighborhood elementary school to one of 4 new schools the city will build. The neighborhood schools would lose their head start funding for those 2000 kids. And instead of the kids going to the school around the corner, who is going to put their 4 year old kids on a VIA bus to get to the distant city run schooll? By their own numbers the cost will be $15,000+ per kid.

[MannyIsGod]

Pre-K is already available through the school districts and this tax increase puts the city sales tax rate at the maximum they're allowed to charge per state law. So basically the City gave up all their remaining taxing capacity in order to provide an essentially redundant service to what the school districts are already providing.

Whats the legitimate draw then? Better quality?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So tell me what is wrong with the expansion of pre-k.

Are you saying 4 centers is a bad idea? Is it that it is going to be needs based for the most part? Is it because you don't believe that full day education is more beneficial to a 4 year old? Is it because you think that there is currently sufficient pre-k available to these kids? What is it?

[CosmicCowboy]

This is a bullshit comment, btw. There are reasons the votes split along those geographic lines and I promsise that you've benefitted from the split far more than this tax increase is giong to hurt. City infrastructure is also split along those geographic lines in a very very skewed way.

Sorry Manny, but the reason the vote slit along those geographic lines is because the informed voters no matter whether they were blue team or red team hated the plan.

[MannyIsGod]

Then why did all the chambers of commerce and all living mayors support it? Informed voters don't live in those areas, CC? Interesting.

[Kori Ellis]

We have four kids that are preschool age, and I think it's a horrible plan.

It doesn't really seem to do anything but waste money. They are creating new preschools that will serve a very very limited number of kids. And like CC said, the kids that it is aimed toward already have access to preschool through Head Start and other elementary school preschool programs.

If they want to provide more opportunities for public preschool, I wouldn't be against it. This plan just didn't make any sense to me.

[DarrinS]

Pretty easy to see where the gullible uninformed voters were...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/elections/item/Pre-K-Voting-12658.php


Lol @ UTSA students.

[CosmicCowboy]

Whats the legitimate draw then? Better quality?

Their premise was that (they claimed) there are about 2500 kids every year that qualify for government assisted pre-k that don't take advantage of the existing programs. The problem is not capacity in the existing schools but parents that don't take advantage of the existing programs. Building 4 new schools doesn't address that problem.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.sanantonio.gov/portals/0/Files/Summary%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Seems to contradict some of your points.

[MannyIsGod]

PreK education has been shown to be a huge factor in success later in life. I certainly don't understand why that is the case but the data is what it is and its quite striking. Whehter or not the quality of prek ultimately has the same type of effect is unknown to me.

However, from a cost perspective this doesn't seem to cost much. The professional development aspect of it is pretty interesting. Generally I think this type of initiative is a good one in the larger scheme of things but I obviously am not very familiar with it.

[coyotes_geek]

Whats the legitimate draw then? Better quality?

There would be more money being thrown at education, so if you buy in to the notion that more money always equals better quality then you could make that arguement.

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe - just maybe CC - its not all about being informed. Maybe those inner city precincts stand to have an improvement in pre K education with this measure. Did that thought cross your mind?

[MannyIsGod]

There would be more money being thrown at education, so if you buy in to the notion that more money always equals better quality then you could make that arguement.

Specialization an certainly lead to better quality. Do you think there's a decent chance that these new facilities will improve markedly on the programs being offered at the current public schools?

[TeyshaBlue]

So tell me what is wrong with the expansion of pre-k.

Are you saying 4 centers is a bad idea? Is it that it is going to be needs based for the most part? Is it because you don't believe that full day education is more beneficial to a 4 year old? Is it because you think that there is currently sufficient pre-k available to these kids? What is it?

The 4 centers plan creates an additional hardship that isn't present with the current system......you have to transport the children to 1 of only 4 centers.
There was sufficient pre-k already offered. This was never an issue of access. Nobody wants to underfund the pre-k program. But it's completely absurd to duplicate existing infrastructure, and to do so in a less efficient manner.
If a tax initiative was truly needed, then great. Funnel that additional money to the existing, completely operational, structure...public schools.

[MannyIsGod]

Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.

[MannyIsGod]

The 4 centers plan creates an additional hardship that isn't present with the current system......you have to transport the children to 1 of only 4 centers.
There was sufficient pre-k already offered. This was never an issue of access. Nobody wants to underfund the pre-k program. But it's completely absurd to duplicate existing infrastructure, and to do so in a less efficient manner.
If a tax initiative was truly needed, then great. Funnel that additional money to the existing, completely operational, structure...public schools.

Not sure why the argument is that this is an equivalent prek program. Nothing I've read seems to indicate that.

[coyotes_geek]

PreK education has been shown to be a huge factor in success later in life. I certainly don't understand why that is the case but the data is what it is and its quite striking. Whehter or not the quality of prek ultimately has the same type of effect is unknown to me.

However, from a cost perspective this doesn't seem to cost much. The professional development aspect of it is pretty interesting. Generally I think this type of initiative is a good one in the larger scheme of things but I obviously am not very familiar with it.

I don't think anyone is disputing the merits of pre-k programs. This is just isn't a good way to promote them.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.sanantonio.gov/portals/0/Files/Summary%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Seems to contradict some of your points.

The tacit assumption made by this .pdf is that these services are not currently being provided. That is largely false.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not sure why the argument is that this is an equivalent prek program. Nothing I've read seems to indicate that.

The tax calls for the duplication of existing infrastructure, Manny.

[Kori Ellis]

Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe HeadStart is a full day everywhere in San Antonio already. It is in our area (7:30-3:30)... my son was in it last school year. He was eligible because he was still a foster child when the school year started.

[CosmicCowboy]

Maybe - just maybe CC - its not all about being informed. Maybe those inner city precincts stand to have an improvement in pre K education with this measure. Did that thought cross your mind?

Every single elementary school in San Antonio offers pre-k for kids that meet the exact same guidelines as the city plan. These are education professionals with the education and transportation infrastructure already in place.

[TeyshaBlue]

Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.

Great. Fund it. Give it to the schools that are already providing half day so they can staff up to full day.

You don't have to build new campuses to do this.

[CosmicCowboy]

Plus the State sales tax slump from the recession is over. Tax receipts from south Texas oil/gas exploration has exploded. The state is in the position to raise funding for education in the normal school district venues.

[coyotes_geek]

Specialization an certainly lead to better quality. Do you think there's a decent chance that these new facilities will improve markedly on the programs being offered at the current public schools?

Sure there's a chance. There's also a chance that the city is going to one day wish they had some taxing capacity left over to pay for something like more policemen, more firemen, more infrastructure, or whatever other services the city is obligated to provide. They just gave that up in order to get in to education when there are already school districts whose sole purpose is to do stuff like this.

[Kori Ellis]

I just don't know why, if 2,300 kids that are eligible for current programs aren't enrolled at all, what would make them enroll in the new schools?

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.

[clambake]

castro is doing you guys a favor. he wants you to have the best educated messicans that will soon be regulatin your daily lives.

[Kori Ellis]

...
I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.
Well, they did have Bruce Bowen. So I'll give them that ;)

[MannyIsGod]

Sure there's a chance. There's also a chance that the city is going to one day wish they had some taxing capacity left over to pay for something like more policemen, more firemen, more infrastructure, or whatever other services the city is obligated to provide. They just gave that up in order to get in to education when there are already school districts whose sole purpose is to do stuff like this.

Fair point. But its only an 8 year commitment and a tax for more first responders through something like bond would be far easier to raise than for a program like this.

[MannyIsGod]

Great. Fund it. Give it to the schools that are already providing half day so they can staff up to full day.

You don't have to build new campuses to do this.

You don't have to but the fact that you don't have to doesn't mean its not a worthy idea to do so. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[MannyIsGod]

Every single elementary school in San Antonio offers pre-k for kids that meet the exact same guidelines as the city plan. These are education professionals with the education and transportation infrastructure already in place.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Childhood-education-expert-testifies-pre-K-a-4013935.php

Not everyone agrees that the current set up is adequate. Is that guy just uninformed?

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.

Because anyone against the city doing it was painted as "against pre-k education" which couldn't be further from the truth.

And Kori has it nailed. Those parents that are too lazy to enroll their kids in pre-k at the elementary school around the corner damn sure aren't gonna get up early and drive 30 minutes in traffic to get their kids to the city run pre k.

[TeyshaBlue]

I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.

Not living in SA, I really don't have a dog in this hunt. But, as a fiscal conservative, duplicating existing services is a fool's errand. This plan a.) Makes no attempt at identifying why students dont go to their local schools for pre -k
b). Assumes the Kevin Costner stance: "Build it and they will come." c). Adds an additional administrative layer to a process that absolutely does not need additional administration.
Cloaking it in "But, think of the children!" garb is dishonest as well.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Expert-testifies-on-Texas-pre-K-funding-decline-4014256.php

More info that the state system may not be doing so well.

[TeyshaBlue]

You don't have to but the fact that you don't have to doesn't mean its not a worthy idea to do so. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The data underlying the methodology of the plan is lacking, Manny. As in completely invisible.

[MannyIsGod]

Because anyone against the city doing it was painted as "against pre-k education" which couldn't be further from the truth.

And Kori has it nailed. Those parents that are too lazy to enroll their kids in pre-k at the elementary school around the corner damn sure aren't gonna get up early and drive 30 minutes in traffic to get their kids to the city run pre k.

You really want to throw that stone CC? Seems to me you built a hell of glass house.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Expert-testifies-on-Texas-pre-K-funding-decline-4014256.php

More info that the state system may not be doing so well.

Summary: We need money.


Good. Give 'em money. Don't waste it on duplicate buildings, and add an additional layer of administrative costs.

[CosmicCowboy]

You really want to throw that stone CC? Seems to me you built a hell of glass house.

WTF are you talking about? I am not against pre-k education. I am against the city raising taxes to fund a redundant program to compete with the local school districts.

[MannyIsGod]

The data underlying the methodology of the plan is lacking, Manny. As in completely invisible.

Completely fair point too and an obvious reason to be wary.

Ok I'm done playing devils advocate. :lol

I think the idea has some merit but the lack of details is a big question mark. I'm not sure how I would have voted had I been in San Antonio. I think this is a really good form of leadership though. I was not a fan of Castro in the past but I really like the type of "big idea" thinking he's brought in for San Antonio. Some of it may flop but some of it may lead to city programs that are incredibly beneficial.

[MannyIsGod]

WTF are you talking about? I am not against pre-k education. I am against the city raising taxes to fund a redundant program to compete with the local school districts.

I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".

[coyotes_geek]

Fair point. But its only an 8 year commitment and a tax for more first responders through something like bond would be far easier to raise than for a program like this.

That's just it though, the city can't raise taxes for more first responders or anything else now. They've capped out their tax rate.

[MannyIsGod]

Summary: We need money.


Good. Give 'em money. Don't waste it on duplicate buildings, and add an additional layer of administrative costs.

Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?

[MannyIsGod]

That's just it though, the city can't raise taxes for more first responders or anything else now. They've capped out their tax rate.

I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.

[CosmicCowboy]

I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.

The tax is currently .08125. The want to tax an additional .00125 to build their redundant prek4 program which will bring us up the the legal limit of .0825.

[TeyshaBlue]

Completely fair point too and an obvious reason to be wary.

Ok I'm done playing devils advocate. :lol


If we ever get together for a beer, I'm buying the first round. Then I'm kicking you in the shin.

[TeyshaBlue]

Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?

They absolutely are a duplication. SA already has enough school buildings. The head of their Pre-K program has publicly stated that there are no capacity issues at play here.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".

Manny, you weren't here for the advertising blitz. They acted like the existing school programs didn't exist and that the only way those poor kids could get prek was to raise the sales tax.

[mrsmaalox]

I'm really surprised this passed. My kids had the full advantage of free all day PreK courtesy of the state of Georgia; but that program was executed without waste and redundancy. As much as I believe in the importance of PreK, and have personally benefitted and seen the positive results, I just couldn't get behind this one.

I do, however, think that painting this as a political move only to benefit Castro is wrong. His implementation of SERVE SA and his successful establishment of Cafe College is a testament that his dedication to furthering the education of San Antonians is more than just for his personal political gain.

[coyotes_geek]

I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.

Your bonding capacity is dependent on your tax revenue stream available to pay those bonds back. Tax revenue dedicated to the pre-k program is potential revenue that is no longer available make bond payments, thus the city's bonding capacity is reduced. Maybe that becomes a problem, maybe it doesn't. Either way, where the city used to have a safety net of the ability to increase tax revenue they've now given that up.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".
If one voted for this thing they were uninformed it was a piece of shit.

Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?
Magnets are for all children this is limited to broke and military kids iirc it is part of it's shittyness

[scott]

I bet the NFL won't come to SA now

[coyotes_geek]

I'm really surprised this passed. My kids had the full advantage of free all day PreK courtesy of the state of Georgia; but that program was executed without waste and redundancy. As much as I believe in the importance of PreK, and have personally benefitted and seen the positive results, I just couldn't get behind this one.

I do, however, think that painting this as a political move only to benefit Castro is wrong. His implementation of SERVE SA and his successful establishment of Cafe College is a testament that his dedication to furthering the education of San Antonians is more than just for his personal political gain.

Granted I'm not an SA resident and don't pay a whole lot of attention to Castro, but I haven't seen anything that makes me doubt his sincerity here. I think he's genuine and his intentions here are noble, they're just misguided IMHO. I don't think a City should be spending their money building schools anymore than I think a school district should be spending their money hiring policemen.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The 4 centers plan creates an additional hardship that isn't present with the current system......you have to transport the children to 1 of only 4 centers.
There was sufficient pre-k already offered. This was never an issue of access. Nobody wants to underfund the pre-k program. But it's completely absurd to duplicate existing infrastructure, and to do so in a less efficient manner.
If a tax initiative was truly needed, then great. Funnel that additional money to the existing, completely operational, structure...public schools.

TB, this sounds like an echo of the heritage foundations playbook against head start in the nineties. Why put together a whole new infrastructure for head start when the public schools are already there. Now its head start and the public schools are there. Head Start has a pretty damn good track record in regards to dropout and literacy rates.

There are 4 major school districts in San Antonio. So you are proposing dividing the tax initiative amongst them because that would be efficient? I know that a popular refrain has been to claim that htis is just the product of Castro's political ambitions but given the rhetoric from various representatives of the school districts i get the feeling that there is all manner of political wrangling going on. While CC looks at that map and thinks 'look for the idiots cause they disagree with me' what I see are clear delineations around the school zones ie NISD and NEISD vs SAISD ans SSISD. Class warfare goes both ways.

[DPG21920]

Completely fair point too and an obvious reason to be wary.

Ok I'm done playing devils advocate. :lol

I think the idea has some merit but the lack of details is a big question mark. I'm not sure how I would have voted had I been in San Antonio. I think this is a really good form of leadership though. I was not a fan of Castro in the past but I really like the type of "big idea" thinking he's brought in for San Antonio. Some of it may flop but some of it may lead to city programs that are incredibly beneficial.

Really? I think he has gotten progressively worse. Given, I am probably not as informed as you are when it comes to politics, but it's alarming to me that he seems to be turning into an Obama clone. I mean, his voice even sounds like Obama's now and it's as if he's practiced the presidential body language and mannerisms in a mirror. I never get the "big thinker" tag some people get when in reality they just throw random stuff out there without a lot of data or a sound plan (which in this case I think is the case). It does not take a genius to just talk about the kids and throw together a really half baked plan that you can get passed because you are SA's Dark Knight.

[MannyIsGod]

I bet the NFL won't come to SA now

Who cares about the NFL? SA needs the MLS!

[MannyIsGod]

Really? I think he has gotten progressively worse. Given, I am probably not as informed as you are when it comes to politics, but it's alarming to me that he seems to be turning into an Obama clone. I mean, his voice even sounds like Obama's now and it's as if he's practiced the presidential body language and mannerisms in a mirror. I never get the "big thinker" tag some people get when in reality they just throw random stuff out there without a lot of data or a sound plan (which in this case I think is the case). It does not take a genius to just talk about the kids and throw together a really half baked plan that you can get passed because you are SA's Dark Knight.

Oh I'm not really very informed on San Antonio politics but I like the things that are getting national attention such as the Solar initiative and now this. Both may flop, but unless SA tries to do things of this nature its never going to be much more than it is now.

[CosmicCowboy]

I bet the NFL won't come to SA now

:lmao

[DPG21920]

I agree, but I almost feel as if Castro is being used as the token minority hero/leader by the Obama campaign and he is allowing it to happen because it gains him or his city (or both) recognition. Means v ends.

[MannyIsGod]

There's NO DOUBT that the national democratic party likes Castro because he's a young hispanic who doesn't look like death. The national parties love them some tokens. But thats the reality of identity politics we live in and I am talking more about the programs.

[DPG21920]

Well between the pandering and the half-backed, lack of data plans such as these that are getting passed, that is why I do not like the direction he's going IMO.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's NO DOUBT that the national democratic party likes Castro because he's a young hispanic who doesn't look like death. The national parties love them some tokens. But thats the reality of identity politics we live in and I am talking more about the programs.

What's irritating is that Castro being liked by the Democratic party as a whole is being tossed out as a red herring instead of talking on merit.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats part of what comes with national exposure. It cuts both ways. The exposure gets you clout which you can then use to get help and pass things but it also gets you backlash and more criticism.

[DPG21920]

That is true - but when you start to examine these things to evaluate whether or not you like the direction a public figure has taken, you look at everything. It's understood that Castro took the next step due to his role in this year's election, however, just because you have clout and can do things, doesn't mean you should cut back on the quality of your visions just because you have said clout is my point.

[MannyIsGod]

Fair point. You guys see him far more than I do. I pretty much never do, ha.

[DPG21920]

:lol I have not lived in SA for 9 years, but always stayed close and my fam all still lives there so I am there quite often.

[Drachen]

I agree, but I almost feel as if Castro is being used as the token minority hero/leader by the Obama campaign and he is allowing it to happen because it gains him or his city (or both) recognition. Means v ends.

Ok, I know what you meant here, but that doesn't mean that it isn't hilarious.

[Drachen]

BTW, my problem is twofold, it covers those already covered, and it is inefficient.

I don't like the firing of the final tax bullet, but they might have begrudgingly gotten my vote if they used the tax increase as block grants to the existing infrastructure and administration rather than having to fund a San Antonio Dept of Education, in addition to the education of children. They might be able to actually educate more children by not wasting money. The way I have been describing it is a "very well meaning, but very poorly thought out program"

[boutons_deux]

"They might be able to actually educate more children by not wasting money."

What if taxpayers quit paying for non-academic activities, like HS sports?

If you want to play, eg, football, your parents buy your uniform, pay the coaches' salaries, pay a fee for building/maintaining the dressing rooms/stadiums, pay the team travel costs, etc, etc. Game tickets would also be higher. Same with band, etc.

Then taxpayers' would pay only for academic/training activities/extracurriculars that affect ALL students.

[Drachen]

I KNOW!!!! Fucking VRWC wanting our children to be indoctrinated with arts education and extracurriculars.

[boutons_deux]

I KNOW!!!! Fucking VRWC wanting our children to be indoctrinated with arts education and extracurriculars.

non-sports extracurriculars? ok

computer club
chess club
woodcraft club
newspaper club
cooking club
politics club
debating team
radio club
band/music club (not marching band)
etc, etc.

(expensive) sports? you pay to play

[leemajors]

it's been a long time since I was in HS, but don't boosters pay for a lot of sports?

[TeyshaBlue]

it's been a long time since I was in HS, but don't boosters pay for a lot of sports?

They pick up pieces of extra-budgetary stuff here and there. In all, not much percentage-wise of the athletic budget.

[TeyshaBlue]

non-sports extracurriculars? ok

computer club
chess club
woodcraft club
newspaper club
cooking club
politics club
debating team
radio club
band/music club (not marching band)
etc, etc.

(expensive) sports? you pay to play

not marching band? wtf?

Unless you're tying it to athletics via football game halftime shows. Then, I get it.

[boutons_deux]

not marching band? wtf?

Unless you're tying it to athletics via football game halftime shows. Then, I get it.

band, orchestra, ensembles, ok.

marching band + uniforms + travel expenses, etc, no.

[TeyshaBlue]

band, orchestra, ensembles, ok.

marching band + uniforms + travel expenses, etc, no.

Ok...understood. However, there are travel expenses associated with concert band, orchestras, choir, enesembles, etc due to the UIL strictures placed upon these programs. If you are going to offer these programs, you must enroll in the UIL sponsored activities. That takes a lot of the local decision making out of whether or not to travel, etc....

ie...if a school is traveling to a UIL sponsored event, and the distance is over xxx miles (can't really remember anymore and it's probably changed by now), the school must provide a meal for the students participating.

[TeyshaBlue]

Dont get me started on the UIL.:ihit

[z0sa]

Shitty.

[leemajors]

They pick up pieces of extra-budgetary stuff here and there. In all, not much percentage-wise of the athletic budget.

You're right, I forgot for golf trips the only reason we could stay at decent hotels and not eat at Shoney's anymore was because of booster money :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

My booster club had the HS football game concession stands.

Football concession stand = Solid Gold.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've got a feeling that when Boutons was a kid and they were dividing up teams for pickup games of football, baseball, dodgeball, etc. that Boutons was always the last kid picked.

[ploto]

ie...if a school is traveling to a UIL sponsored event, and the distance is over xxx miles (can't really remember anymore and it's probably changed by now), the school must provide a meal for the students participating.

Since when?

[TeyshaBlue]

Since when?

That was the rule during the decade I was teaching. Pretty sure it's still in place.

[TeyshaBlue]

That was the rule during the decade I was teaching. Pretty sure it's still in place.

That was also UIL's rule back when I was in HS which was, charitably, a while ago.

[leemajors]

Yeah sports teams and bands always got a meal on out of town trips when I was in high school, usually Whataburger

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah sports teams and bands always got a meal on out of town trips when I was in high school, usually Whataburger

Don't you know they love it when the Reagan band rolls up, all 250 of them...