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View Full Version : Ben Barnes to be on 60 Minutes tonight Wednesday 9/8



JohnnyMarzetti
09-08-2004, 05:20 PM
Lt. Governor of Texas is going to tell his story about getting the moron in the TANG during the Vietnam Era.
60 Minutes (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/05/24/60II/main48284.shtml)

Just thought I'd let you all know so you don't wait until Sunday.

Texans for Truth!!

Tommy Duncan
09-08-2004, 05:21 PM
Slight problem, kiddo. Barnes became Lt Gov in 1969.

Bush joined the Nat'l Guard in 1968.

Try again.

PS...Since you posted DNC material here's a link (http://www.gop.com/RNCResearch/Read.aspx?ID=4625) to what the RNC has to say about Barnes.

Tommy Duncan
09-08-2004, 05:23 PM
Before I forget, so much for CBS being "unbiased." Barnes is a major Kerry fundraiser and Rather is, well Rather.

But I know, only Fox News is "biased"...

bigzak25
09-08-2004, 05:24 PM
how many times are we gonna hear about bush and the air national guard? :sleepy

Tommy Duncan
09-08-2004, 05:29 PM
Until the "unbiased" media gets a scandal that sticks on Bush. Actually, at this point I think they will just run the same story again and again and again and...

This story was covered in 2000. It was covered again earlier this year, when both the DNC and Kerry himself were asserting that Bush was AWOL (funny how an honorable discharge was not above being questioned back then).

Now it's being covered since Kerry's campaign is managing to be even weaker than the '88 Dukakis one.

Yonivore
09-08-2004, 05:31 PM
Barnes is a partisan hack and lobbyist.

Why are they running all Air National Guard, all the time? Seriously, did they do a full media blitz on the SVFT claims about Kerry?

This Air National Guard issue was exhausted in the 2000 election.

JohnnyMarzetti
09-08-2004, 05:34 PM
how many times are we gonna hear about bush and the air national guard?

About as many times as we need to hear about Kerry's purple hearts. :p

Boy I like watching you repub-lie-cants get your foreheads all wrinkled up. :lol

Tommy Duncan
09-08-2004, 05:40 PM
No Repub here.

You're the one sitting there with an erection over two old white guys talking about Bush.

Yonivore
09-08-2004, 05:54 PM
"About as many times as we need to hear about Kerry's purple hearts."
I don't recall President Bush running on his Air National Guard record which, if you discount the kerfuffle over 1972, was admirable, (I mean, do you really think people learn to fly fighter jets on the weekend, between campaigns and parties?)

I do, however, seem to recall John Kerry mentioning his Vietnam experience and heroism as a qualification for the Presidency. I'm not real sure but, I believe it's come up in a couple of his speeches...it might have been mentioned at the Demoncratic National Convention as well. But, I could be wrong.

What I want to know is when are we going to hear about all the great legislation he's sponsored over the years to make this country better? Oh, that's right, he hasn't authored, co-authored, sponsored, or co-sponsored any significant legislation in his 20 years as Senator. In addition, he's missed 80% of his votes this past session and attended just over 20% of the Senate Intelligence Committee meetings during the entire time he sat on that committee.

Tommy Duncan
09-08-2004, 06:11 PM
Here's something to think about. Kerry the gung-ho volunteer for Vietnam service joins the Navy Reserves with the idea that by doing so he will avoid real combat via the draft and by virtue of hanging out on a ship in the middle of the ocean (which is what his first tour of duty consisted of).

This doesn't diminish his service but it does call into question the way his biography has been presented to the voting public as someone who volunteered for combat. He did not. The only thing he volunteered for were the swift boats (similiar to the one his hero JFK commanded) when they were patrolling offshore. Only by a twist of fate did Kerry end up in real combat.

A small deception, perhaps. But a rather significant one if Bush's national guard duty is so important that we must talk about it every 4 years.

Nbadan
09-09-2004, 02:42 AM
There is more to the Barnes story than either side has told...


In 1968, former Congressman George Herbert Walker Bush of Texas, fresh from voting to send other men's sons to Vietnam, enlisted his own son in a very special affirmative action program, the 'champagne' unit of the Texas Air National Guard. There, Top Gun fighter pilot George Dubya was assigned the dangerous job of protecting Houston from Vietcong air attack.
This week, former Lt. Governor Ben Barnes of Texas 'fessed up to pulling the strings to keep Little George out of the jungle. "I got a young man named George W. Bush into the Texas Air Guard - and I'm ashamed."

THE PAY-OFF
That’s far from the end of the story. In 1994, George W. Bush was elected governor of Texas by a whisker. By that time, Barnes had left office to become a big time corporate lobbyist. To an influence peddler like Barnes, having damning information on a sitting governor is worth its weight in gold – or, more precisely, there’s a value in keeping the info secret.

Barnes appears to have made lucrative use of his knowledge of our President's slithering out of the draft as a lever to protect a multi-billion dollar contract for a client.

Barnes appears to have made lucrative use of his knowledge of our President's slithering out of the draft as a lever to protect a multi-billion dollar contract for a client. That's the information in a confidential letter buried deep in the files of the US Justice Department that fell into my hands at BBC television.

Here's what happened. Just after Bush's election, Barnes' client GTech Corp., due to allegations of corruption, was about to lose its license to print money: its contract to run the Texas state lottery. Barnes, says the Justice Department document, made a call to the newly elected governor's office and saved GTech's state contract.

The letter said, "Governor Bush ... made a deal with Ben Barnes not to rebid [the GTech lottery contract] because Barnes could confirm that Bush had lied during the '94 campaign."

In that close race, Bush denied the fix was in to keep him out of 'Nam, and the US media stopped asking questions. What did the victorious Governor Bush's office do for Barnes? According to the tipster, "Barnes agreed never to confirm the story [of the draft dodging] and the governor talked to the chair of the lottery two days later and she then agreed to support letting GTech keep the contract without a bid."

And so it came to pass that the governor's commission reversed itself and gave GTech the billion dollar deal without a bid.

The happy client paid Barnes, the keeper of Governor Bush's secret, a fee of over $23 million. Barnes, not surprisingly, denies that Bush took care of his client in return for Barnes' silence. However, confronted with the evidence, the former Lt. Governor now admits to helping the young George stay out of Vietnam.

Take a look at the letter yourself - with information we confirmed with other sources. (http://www.gregpalast.com/ulf/documents/draftdodgeblanked.jpg)

Baltimore Chronicle (http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/083004GregPalast.shtml)

Nbadan
09-09-2004, 02:48 AM
Slight problem, kiddo. Barnes became Lt Gov in 1969.

Bush joined the Nat'l Guard in 1968.

Try again

Your information is correct as to when Barnes became Lt. Governor, but before he was Lt. Governor, he was House Speaker, a position he got in 1965.

Nice try, though.

Nbadan
09-09-2004, 02:49 AM
That said, Barnes should correct himself and say that he did it when he was House Speaker.

The problem here is that Barnes made a mistake in an impromptu statement about what his job was at the time. That said, his sworn testimony which he gave back in 1999 was very clear on the fact that he was House Speaker at the time

Joe Chalupa
09-09-2004, 09:09 AM
From what I saw last night I'd say that Bush must have been doing some serious partying.

Ruby Ridge
09-09-2004, 10:30 AM
Isee where an ad by "Texans for Truth" is going to be running asking where the Coward of Crawford was during this TTANG duty.....or lack thereof.

This story hasn't gotten half the play the discredited Swift Boat Vets for Rent has. It has been around but sporadic and never in depth, the "liberal media" has given him a pass.

Bring it on.

ClintSquint
09-09-2004, 10:39 AM
Bring it on!!! http://www.allhatnocattle.net/donkey3.gif

Tommy Duncan
09-09-2004, 11:01 AM
This story hasn't gotten half the play the discredited Swift Boat Vets for Rent has.

Oh please. The 'Bush was AWOL' attack was already tried out earlier this year. It certainly got a lot of coverage back in February and March. Lest we forget the 2000 campaign when, again, Bush was hit on his Guard service. And before that in the 1994 Governorship race.

The worst that can be said about Bush is that he got into the Guard thanks to his dad being a congressman and that he missed an annual physical which resulted in the loss of his "flying status". That apparently was not enough to not have him receive an honorable discharge from the guard. So much for this tempest in a teapot.

If someone was going to vote on Bush being a rich kid whose dad got him into the guard then they've already made up their mind.

The one thing this episode is good for is to show just how interconnected the so-called "mainstream" media is with the Democrat party. But I know, they aren't biased. Yeah.

At this point the media might get a bigger play out of some of the allegations in Kitty Kelley's book than out of the retread Bush National Guard story.

Also, I find it interesting that a few days ago the mere fact that one of the 250 Swift Vets was a volunteer for the Bush campaign was enough to eliminate his credibility. Well Ben Barnes is a major Democrat and Kerry fundraiser and he's the only one making this accusation.

As Kerry's campaign continues to flounder I expect the attacks on Bush to become more shrill from the media and the greater left.

If the national guard story is all they have then this election is over.

Tommy Duncan
09-09-2004, 11:09 AM
From earlier this year, the first time that the media, Kerry, and the Demos tried to get the Bush was AWOL story out...

www.nationalreview.com/yo...101529.asp (http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200402101529.asp)

February 10, 2004, 3:29 p.m.

Bush Releases the Evidence
Newly released records show he did indeed serve in 1972.

Byron York
National Review

Under pressure from Democrats who claimed he had been "AWOL" or a "deserter" during his time in the Texas Air National Guard, President Bush today released new documents detailing his service in 1972 and 1973.

In recent weeks, critics had suggested that the president did not meet Guard duty standards during the period from May 1972 until May 1973. Other than the president's recollection that he served during that time, there has, until now, been no evidence that he actually reported for duty. The new documents, which consist of pay records and attendance reports, show that the president missed some months of service during that period but met the yearly requirement for satisfactory service. (Click here for documents 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.)

The record "clearly shows that First Lt. George W. Bush has satisfactory years for both 72-73 and 73-74, which proves that he completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner," wrote retired Colonel Albert Lloyd, a Guard officer who reviewed the records at the request of the White House, in a letter released at today's press briefing.

According to Lloyd, guardsmen were required to accumulate 50 points per retirement year in order to meet Guard standards. The records show that the president accumulated 56 points in the May 1972 to May 1973 time period. The president accumulated another 56 points in the months immediately after May 1973, shortly before he left the Guard to attend Harvard Business School.

The records do not address the question of where the president was when he served his Guard duty. A retired official of the Alabama Air National Guard has said he has no recollection of the president's reporting for duty in 1972.

Indeed, the records show that the president did not earn any points for service in May, June, July, August, or September 1972. He began to earn points again in October 1972, and by May 1973 had collected enough points to satisfy Guard requirements for the year.

The president's service was measured on a May-to-May basis because he first joined the Guard in May, 1968. There are no questions about his service for his first four years in the Guard; indeed, the Boston Globe reported in 2000 that during that time the president "logged numerous hours of duty, well above the minimum requirements for so-called 'weekend warriors.'"

When he left the Guard, in 1973, the president was honorably discharged. The White House has maintained that that fact alone proves the president completed the necessary Guard requirements. But Democrats, including presumptive presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry, have said that the simple fact of an honorable discharge does not prove that the president did his duty. (But you can't question John Kerry's military records, of course)

The White House hopes that the release of documents today will quell criticism over the president's service. However, if Tuesday's press briefing was any indication, the questions will persist. Reporters from the broadcast television networks grilled White House spokesman Scott McClellan about the months in which the records do not show any service points earned by the president. McClellan, beyond stating repeatedly that the records prove the president met his obligations, was otherwise not familiar with the details of the documents, and the White House did not provide an expert who could interpret them for reporters.

Tommy Duncan
09-09-2004, 11:18 AM
www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx (http://www.hillnews.com/york/090904.aspx)

Bush’s National Guard years
Before you fall for Dems’ spin, here are the facts

By Byron York

What do you really know about George W. Bush’s time in the Air National Guard?

That he didn’t show up for duty in Alabama? That he missed a physical? That his daddy got him in?

News coverage of the president’s years in the Guard has tended to focus on one brief portion of that time — to the exclusion of virtually everything else. So just for the record, here, in full, is what Bush did:

The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.

That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.

Not two years of weekends. Two years.

After training, Bush kept flying, racking up hundreds of hours in F-102 jets. As he did, he accumulated points toward his National Guard service requirements. At the time, guardsmen were required to accumulate a minimum of 50 points to meet their yearly obligation.

According to records released earlier this year, Bush earned 253 points in his first year, May 1968 to May 1969 (since he joined in May 1968, his service thereafter was measured on a May-to-May basis).

Bush earned 340 points in 1969-1970. He earned 137 points in 1970-1971. And he earned 112 points in 1971-1972. The numbers indicate that in his first four years, Bush not only showed up, he showed up a lot. Did you know that?

That brings the story to May 1972 — the time that has been the focus of so many news reports — when Bush “deserted” (according to anti-Bush filmmaker Michael Moore) or went “AWOL” (according to Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee).

Bush asked for permission to go to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign. His superior officers said OK. Requests like that weren’t unusual, says retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971.

“In 1972, there was an enormous glut of pilots,” Campenni says. “The Vietnam War was winding down, and the Air Force was putting pilots in desk jobs. In ’72 or ’73, if you were a pilot, active or Guard, and you had an obligation and wanted to get out, no problem. In fact, you were helping them solve their problem.”

So Bush stopped flying. From May 1972 to May 1973, he earned just 56 points — not much, but enough to meet his requirement.

Then, in 1973, as Bush made plans to leave the Guard and go to Harvard Business School, he again started showing up frequently.

In June and July of 1973, he accumulated 56 points, enough to meet the minimum requirement for the 1973-1974 year.

Then, at his request, he was given permission to go. Bush received an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months and five days of his original six-year commitment. By that time, however, he had accumulated enough points in each year to cover six years of service.

During his service, Bush received high marks as a pilot.

A 1970 evaluation said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

A 1971 evaluation called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a 1972 evaluation called Bush “an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer.”

Now, it is only natural that news reports questioning Bush’s service — in The Boston Globe and The New York Times, on CBS and in other outlets — would come out now. Democrats are spitting mad over attacks on John Kerry’s record by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

And, as it is with Kerry, it’s reasonable to look at a candidate’s entire record, including his military service — or lack of it. Voters are perfectly able to decide whether it’s important or not in November.

The Kerry camp blames Bush for the Swift boat veterans’ attack, but anyone who has spent much time talking to the Swifties gets the sense that they are doing it entirely for their own reasons.

And it should be noted in passing that Kerry has personally questioned Bush’s service, while Bush has not personally questioned Kerry's.

In April — before the Swift boat veterans had said a word — Kerry said Bush “has yet to explain to America whether or not, and tell the truth, about whether he showed up for duty.” Earlier, Kerry said, “Just because you get an honorable discharge does not, in fact, answer that question.”

Now, after the Swift boat episode, the spotlight has returned to Bush.

That’s fine. We should know as much as we can.

And perhaps someday Kerry will release more of his military records as well.


Byron York is a White House correspondent for National Review. His column appears in The Hill each week. E-mail: [email protected]

Tommy Duncan
09-09-2004, 11:49 AM
That said, Barnes should correct himself and say that he did it when he was House Speaker.

Well if the man (a major Kerry supporter and fundraiser) can't remember what office he was in at the time how are we to believe what he recalls about Bush?




The problem here is that Barnes made a mistake in an impromptu statement about what his job was at the time. That said, his sworn testimony which he gave back in 1999 was very clear on the fact that he was House Speaker at the time

Oh you mean this testimony:

Under Oath, Barnes Testified He Had No Contact With Bush Family Concerning National Guard. "Ben Barnes, then the speaker of the Texas House, said in 1999 that Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and longtime friend of the Bush family whose son also won a slot in the 147th, had asked him to help get Mr. Bush into the Guard. Mr. Barnes, who acknowledged a role only after he was questioned under oath, also said that he had spoken to the head of the Texas Air National Guard on Mr. Bush's behalf, but had no contact with anyone in the Bush family. And there is no direct evidence that Mr. Bush's family pulled strings to get him into the 147th. Mr. Bush is firmly on record denying it, as is the commander of the unit, and there is no paper trail showing any influence by the Bush family." (David Barstow, "In Haze Of Guard Records, A Bit Of Clarity," The New York Times, 2/15/04)


Again, if the worst thing the Demos have to throw at Bush is that he got into the Guard because he was the son of a congressman then that has been covered again and again and again and again...