Pop: Expect more small ball

[Uriel]

Expect little: Spurs fans should expect to see much more use of small lineups — four perimeter players on the court with one traditional big man.

Popovich used small lineups through much of the second half against the Trail Blazers, and the Spurs responded with 69 points in the half.

“We’ll play a good amount of it this year, just because of teams like Oklahoma City where you play small with (Kevin) Durant at the (power forward). It’s harder for big guys to guard him,” Popovich said.

“You have to get used to playing small so whenever we have an opportunity, we’ll probably do it.”

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/11/13/ginobili-convinces-pop-he’s-good-to-go-in-l-a/

[timvp]

I'm fine with small ball that has Jackson and Leonard at the forward spots. No problem at all.

[racm]

I'm fine with small ball that has Jackson and Leonard at the forward spots. No problem at all.

Agreed. Jackson has the length and strength to bother perimeter-oriented 4s (Nowitzki, Aldridge, or even the Heat) while Leonard is an above-average rebounder for a wing.

[spurraider21]

“We’ll play a good amount of it this year, just because of teams like Oklahoma City where you play small with (Kevin) Durant at the (power forward). It’s harder for big guys to guard him,” Popovich said.

“You have to get used to playing small so whenever we have an opportunity, we’ll probably do it.”
Obstructed_View pretty much what i said in the splitter thread tbh...

[Raven]

as expected. I'm cool with it, since most teams are young and energetic and a lazy ass duncan with both knees broken is more than enough to shut them down. It also helps my fantasy team to give Green and Kawhi as many minutes as possible so there you go :lol

[Raven]

Agreed. Jackson has the length and strength to bother perimeter-oriented 4s (Nowitzki, Aldridge, or even the Heat) while Leonard is an above-average rebounder for a wing.

Yeah Leonard's rebounding is really the key. In the past when we tried to go small, we just couldn't get a freaking rebound, but with him and a healthy duncan it can really be used effectively.

[Obstructed_View]

Obstructed_View pretty much what i said in the splitter thread tbh...

Still stupid. Only one team has the option to play Kevin Durant at power forward, and they start Kendrick Perkins and Serge Ibaka last time I checked. It's an absolutely retarded excuse for not giving your two best bigs time on the floor.

[jestersmash]

Not an issue at all.

I'm thrilled that Popovich recognized how effective Duncan-Splitter was the game after Bynum torched us for 30 rebounds. He drew on that experience and started Splitter next to Duncan tonight. Pop will pair Splitter with Duncan and go big when necessary.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm fine with small ball that has Jackson and Leonard at the forward spots. No problem at all.

Still have nightmare flashes about Richard Jefferson being put in to cover Amare or Keith Bogans checking Lamarcus Aldridge.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Still stupid. Only one team has the option to play Kevin Durant at power forward, and they start Kendrick Perkins and Serge Ibaka last time I checked. It's an absolutely retarded excuse for not giving your two best bigs time on the floor.

And that's the team that beat SA last season and is very likely to be in the way this season too.

[SpurSwag]

small ball is the way in the nba now. I really wish all the players on the spurs understood that a lot of the times, they might not get the minutes they want due to matchups. Everyone but splitter and blair seem to understand and respond well to that. Against teams like OKC and Miami that often utilize small ball lineups, we will have games where splitter might barely play. But in games like tonights, he'll get every chance possible to shine.

[therealtruth]

It works both ways. Durant can't guard real bigs either. If the Spurs had confidence in Splitter's post game they could prevent OKC from going small. Teams stop going small when they see they are being out rebounded, picking up fouls, or giving up tons of easy baskets. I am tired of Pop letting the other coach dictate what he does. Force the other team to adjust for once.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It works both ways. Durant can't guard real bigs either. If the Spurs had confidence in Splitter's post game they could prevent OKC from going small. Teams stop going small when they see they are being out rebounded, picking up fouls, or giving up tons of easy baskets. I am tired of Pop letting the other coach dictate what he does. Force the other team to adjust for once.

Who do you think will score more - Durant on Splitter or Splitter on Durant?

[Raven]

It works both ways. Durant can't guard real bigs either. If the Spurs had confidence in Splitter's post game they could prevent OKC from going small. Teams stop going small when they see they are being out rebounded, picking up fouls, or giving up tons of easy baskets. I am tired of Pop letting the other coach dictate what he does. Force the other team to adjust for once.

you still need to be able to give him the ball, make him a .600 ft shooter otherwise the open threes and jump shots will be killing, aside from tournovers who would anyway..

[Obstructed_View]

And that's the team that beat SA last season and is very likely to be in the way this season too.

They beat the Spurs with Sefolosha shutting down Parker and Ibaka and Perkins hitting a thousand midrange jumpers. It wasn't because Splitter and Duncan were on the floor too much. Again, I have no problem with adjusting to what happens, but the Spurs have avoided playing their best players together until they get desperate. If it's good enough for desperation time, why isn't it good enough for a few regular season games?

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Only the refs can help OKC now as they've become hopelessly dependant on Westbrook's playmaking over an entire game. When it comes to the west I'm more worried about some other team's ceilings tbh. Minnesota will be scary good once healthy I think and there is always Memphis.

Spurs need not to panic and along those lines this is a good message from Pop. We had it right in so many ways last season. That offense can still be found and it will dominate everyone.

[Obstructed_View]

Last thing I'm going to say about this for tonight: Duncan and Splitter looked terrible together at this time last year. They're far better now for having gotten a little bit of time, I want them to really get comfortable playing together so it can be used as a weapon instead of a gadget. I know Diaw can be effective, I know Blair has his moments to contribute, and I damn sure like having Jack and Kawhi on the front line instead of RJ or Keith Bogans or Ime Udoka. There's not really any reason Duncan and Splitter can't be good enough together that teams are afraid they'll be exploited for going small. They can move, they can pass, they can defend, they can draw fouls. If they could learn to hit free throws they'd be downright scary.

[silverblk mystix]

Last thing I'm going to say about this for tonight: Duncan and Splitter looked terrible together at this time last year. They're far better now for having gotten a little bit of time, I want them to really get comfortable playing together so it can be used as a weapon instead of a gadget. I know Diaw can be effective, I know Blair has his moments to contribute, and I damn sure like having Jack and Kawhi on the front line instead of RJ or Keith Bogans or Ime Udoka. There's not really any reason Duncan and Splitter can't be good enough together that teams are afraid they'll be exploited for going small. They can move, they can pass, they can defend, they can draw fouls. If they could learn to hit free throws they'd be downright scary.



I think you are one of the very few posters who understands this and it appears that 98% of this board can't grasp this very simple fact;

Play the best players,period.

If they have played at a high level all their lives and they are real players-they will end up being players when given their time on the court.

Pop is too old and senile to understand that a player who is good is 100 times better than a shitty kiss ass player who obeys and kisses your ass. If Bonner/Finley/Bogans/ are not better than the rest of the team then they should not see the floor.Period.

If a player like Patty Mills (who the whole fuckin world can see is a fuckin' player) is given time he will make you look good. If Mills is given the back up point spot and is trusted to be the backup no matter who the fuck the spurs are playing- he will be the best fuckin option for the team.

Instead, Pop thinks that because Neal is playing Pop's system - that Neal can magically transform himself into a true point guard. Put Neal in his true position and let Mills give him the ball and fire away. Then the defense will have to deal with TWO fuckin gunners in the backcourt.

If Tiago gets all the time next to Timmy - he will be the best option going forward - no matter who the opponent is.

Pop thinks otherwise.

[spurraider21]

Who do you think will score more - Durant on Splitter or Splitter on Durant?
This

[spurraider21]

If Duncan and Splitter start together, it would also mean more turd tower minutes. That alone tells me its a bad idea, unless the matchup dictates it

[timtonymanu]

This is an okay move. Expect more Bonner would have been a terrible quote. Plus Jack and Kawhi are more than capable.

[silverblk mystix]

Who do you think will score more - Durant on Splitter or Splitter on Durant?

Who do you think Durant will score more on, Splitter or Bonner?

[Obstructed_View]

“You have to get used to playing small so whenever we have an opportunity, we’ll probably do it.”


Odd that he doesn't think you have to get used to playing your five best players together. If the Spurs aren't used to smallball after six years, maybe it's time to address the possibility that it doesn't work very well.

[Vic Petro]

Still stupid. Only one team has the option to play Kevin Durant at power forward, and they start Kendrick Perkins and Serge Ibaka last time I checked. It's an absolutely retarded excuse for not giving your two best bigs time on the floor.

Knicks play Melo at PF often. Hornets pull Lopez early and bump Aminu to PF. More and more teams are doing it for longer stretches

[racm]

Knicks play Melo at PF often. Hornets pull Lopez early and bump Aminu to PF. More and more teams are doing it for longer stretches

Melo's at his best at the 4 because it causes a Dirk-like mismatch. Too fast for most post players, too strong for most perimeter players.

Aminu was a 4 in college so him playing the 4 on offense while Davis switches between the 3, 4, and 5 as needed makes sense; with a frontcourt this versatile it's no surprise they moved Warrick.

[SpurPadre]

And that's the team that beat SA last season and is very likely to be in the way this season too.


Well there is one difference: Harden and Harden>Kevin Martin...though tbh, Martin does do well against us. I'm hoping we make a move for some front court help at the deadline, we'll see.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Who do you think Durant will score more on, Splitter or Bonner?

Irrelevant - he might eventually score less on Kawhi/Jack, which is the purpose of the thread.

[therealtruth]

Irrelevant - he might eventually score less on Kawhi/Jack, which is the purpose of the thread.

The whole point is if you can beat up teams inside they won't go small. The key to getting a better inside game is playing more Duncan-Splitter. You can always use a zone defense to counter bad matchups but a zone defense won't help you rebound better if you're undersized.

[dunkman]

As long as it gets to work well in the post-season . . .

[temujin]

The whole point is if you can beat up teams inside they won't go small. The key to getting a better inside game is playing more Duncan-Splitter. You can always use a zone defense to counter bad matchups but a zone defense won't help you rebound better if you're undersized.

That's actually what a good zone defense is designed for: rebound better when you are undersized.

[UZER]

Spurs just need to let Durant get his like they used to do with Amare, and shut down everyone else.

Diaw could be a stretch 4 if he would just take his open shots. Dude passes up more shots than a nun a bar. He is a really good shooter and can even hit a decent rate from three...but knoooow...let me pass up this wide open 18 ftr and pass to Duncan down low with 3 guys on him.

Someone last year mentioned on this board (mightve been a suns fan) that Diaw was good but his over passing and refusal to take open shots was gonna frustrate Spurs fans.

[Bruno]

There are basically 2 cases where Spurs could go small.
The first one is if the other team go small and Spurs had to adjust to defend them. It's an almost automatic case because Spurs don't have the quality at PF/C to impose a will of staying big.
The second one is Spurs going small to create a mismatch. Spurs/Pop rarely did that in the past.

Since the majority of the cases where Spurs will go small will be as a response, it's interesting to see against what team in the playoffs Spurs will need to go small in the playoffs. If you assume that teams that made the playoffs last year will still make the playoffs this years, Spurs will face at the PF slot:
- Memphis: Randolph, Speights and Arthur.
- Clippers: Griffin and Odom.
- Thunder: Ibaka, Collison and Durant.
- Mavs: Dirk, Brand and Brandan Wright.
- Nuggets: Farried, Gallinari and Wilson Chandler.
- Utah: Millsap and Favors.
- Lakers: Gasol, Jamison and Jordan Hill.
Thunder and Nuggets are the two teams against who Spurs will be forced to play some small ball. Going small against Mavs could be too necessary if Dirk can't be handled by Spurs bigs. For the 4 other teams, Spurs will have no problem to stay big.
In addition of this WC teams, Heat will likely win the EC and there are a team against who Spurs will need to go small.

Spurs must work on small ball lineups because they will need to go small against some opponents but it's a solution that won't work in most cases. Spurs must work too on big lineups and that's why Pop is doing when he starts Splitter against the Lakers. If Spurs work on all these lineups during the redular season, it will help them in the playoffs. With Diaw, Leonard/Jackson and Splitter playing PF depending on the matchups, Spurs will be able to do a good job to defend all the players other teams could thrown at them at the PF slot.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs are not going to win a championship by playing better small ball than the Heat. The Heat have better players to play small ball. That's not how the Grizzlies beat them a couple of nights ago. Their going to win by punishing the Heat for the lack of an inside presence. You don't win championships by simply adjusting to other teams. You win by imposing your will and style of play on them and doing it better than they can.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Spurs are not going to win a championship by playing better small ball than the Heat. The Heat have better players to play small ball. That's not how the Grizzlies beat them a couple of nights ago. Their going to win by punishing the Heat for the lack of an inside presence. You don't win championships by simply adjusting to other teams. You win by imposing your will and style of play on them and doing it better than they can.

Only if you have the players to do so, imposing Splitter's will on LeBron or Durant won't win a title either. The Spurs' best chance is to adjust to small ball line-ups because they'll face plenty and fortunately Kawhi and Jack are very decent in this role. It's not what's going to win them a series, of course, but it's what might lose it, so it's about damage control when Thunder or Heat go small.Then the Spurs could try to counter them in other areas.

[Obstructed_View]

Knicks play Melo at PF often. Hornets pull Lopez early and bump Aminu to PF. More and more teams are doing it for longer stretches

Yet not starting that way, so the argument makes zero sense.

[TD 21]

AKA, this team is extremely weak at PF and extremely deep on the perimeter and in order to get many of their better players on the floor for more minutes than they'd otherwise get, they'll play small when they can. Which makes sense. This isn't 2-3 years ago, when going small inevitably meant that a soft, mentally weak, poor rebounding SF had to masquerade as a PF. Now they've got one of the toughest SF's in the league and one of the best rebounding SF's in the league, to do the job.

[DesignatedT]

As stated already, I like our small ball line-up going against other teams that are running it. Jack-Leonard combo is nice.

Reason it is looked down upon so much on these boards is because we were running it with Finley. RJ, Udoka, etc. in the past.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm still not seeing a reason NOT to play Duncan and Splitter a healthy amount of minutes together.

[DesignatedT]

I'd like to see Duncan/Splitter start but we need another big who can play with Diaw in the second unit. Not Blair.

[dunkman]

I'm still not seeing a reason NOT to play Duncan and Splitter a healthy amount of minutes together.

The league has changed, the Lakers had better bigs and they didn't do well the last two seasons. This season they seem to have problems too.

[therealtruth]

The league has changed, the Lakers had better bigs and they didn't do well the last two seasons. This season they seem to have problems too.

It's not the league has changed. It's the league has had to adjust to the Lakers in order to beat them. Why do you think the Thunder got Perkins or the Mavs got Tyson Chandler. In both cases it was the right move to make because it allowed them to matchup against the Lakers.

[dunkman]

It's not the league has changed. It's the league has had to adjust to the Lakers in order to beat them. Why do you think the Thunder got Perkins or the Mavs got Tyson Chandler. In both cases it was the right move to make because it allowed them to matchup against the Lakers.

The Spurs added Dice to guard one of the Lakers bigs and RJ for Odom. The Spurs usually start Splitter vs the Lakers at this point.

If Bynum/Gasol didn't work the last two seasons, Duncan/Splitter wouldn't win the title either. And the Lakers have trouble with Howard/Gasol too.

If teams go small, the Spurs can do that well with Jack and Kawhi. If they have a traditional center and a more mobile PF, the Spurs will start Diaw, and if they face the Lakers they go with Duncan/Splitter.

Splitter isn't a great offensive player to command an adjustment from the opposite team.

[Obstructed_View]

Bump. Spurs 24-6 with Splitter and Duncan starting. Thanks for playing.

[Brunodf]

:depressedBut But Blair should start!!
:depressedSpurs win moar games when Blair starts!
:depressedHe makes TD work harder on the defensive end!
:depressedSpurs don't give up offensive rebounds when Blair starts!(no D= no rebounds)
:depressedHe allows TD to chase perimeter players!
:depressedThe bench is better when Blair starts!

[racm]

Bump. Spurs 24-6 with Splitter and Duncan starting. Thanks for playing.

And the Leonard-Splitter-Duncan frontcourt is even more ridiculous. IIRC they're 22-3 together. :wow

[cd021]

Spurs just need to let Durant get his like they used to do with Amare, and shut down everyone else.

Diaw could be a stretch 4 if he would just take his open shots. Dude passes up more shots than a nun a bar. He is a really good shooter and can even hit a decent rate from three...but knoooow...let me pass up this wide open 18 ftr and pass to Duncan down low with 3 guys on him.

Someone last year mentioned on this board (mightve been a suns fan) that Diaw was good but his over passing and refusal to take open shots was gonna frustrate Spurs fans.

47.7 From 3. Since arriving last season thru post season and this season. Not bad at all.

[cd021]

I'd like to see Duncan/Splitter start but we need another big who can play with Diaw in the second unit. Not Blair.

Jackson is completely capable of playing the four full time. He guarded Aldridge, Milsap, & Griffin late in games.

[cd021]

It's not the league has changed. It's the league has had to adjust to the Lakers in order to beat them. Why do you think the Thunder got Perkins or the Mavs got Tyson Chandler. In both cases it was the right move to make because it allowed them to matchup against the Lakers.

No way in hell Perkins helps OKC. He is a non factor on offense. 4.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg. 1.2 bpg, .P.E.R-9.48 while playing 25 minutes per game. Collison is a significantly better player.He is essentially Eric Dampier on Dallas.

[cd021]

The Spurs are not going to win a championship by playing better small ball than the Heat. The Heat have better players to play small ball. That's not how the Grizzlies beat them a couple of nights ago. Their going to win by punishing the Heat for the lack of an inside presence. You don't win championships by simply adjusting to other teams. You win by imposing your will and style of play on them and doing it better than they can.

The Spurs can definitely win a title playing small ball
Parker
Neal/Green
Manu/Green
Kawhi/Jackson
Duncan/Splitter

vs

Cole/Chalmbers
Wade
Allen
Lebron
Bosh/Lewis

We'd have at leas 3 big advantages PG, Center, & Small Forward.

Jackson and Leonard are long defenders who can help limit Lebrons damage and provide 25 (combined) points as well. The Heat are are the worst rebounding team in the league while Duncan and Splitter combine for for than 15 boards a game in limited action (neither plays more than 28 mpg) No way Bosh can out board them playing Center in that lineup especially offensive boards.

Bosh Per 36 (10 year veteran)
Offensive Rebounds-2.3 (Tied for 2nd lowest of career)
Defensive Rebounds-5.5 (2nd lowest of career)
Total-7.9 (lowest of career)
Rebound Percertage-13.4 %

Splitter Per 36
2.5 Orpg,
6.8 Drpg,
8.8 Rpg
Rebound Percentage-14.3%

Duncan Per 36
2.2 Orpg
9.6 Drpg
11.7RPg
Rebound %-19.0%

We can play 2 big or small ball and still beat them. The spurs have went to small ball throught out the season, and have only relatively recently went big. The heat have ball small ball most of the season and have had to go "bigger" by adding Birdman. They'd be adjusting to us not the other way.

[racm]

I like the versatility of this roster. When Smart rolled out Thomas/Fredette/Thornton all on the floor at the same time Pop went with Parker/Green/Ginobili/Leonard/Duncan to finish the game. Sure, they had an 8-0 run to cut the deficit to 3 but the Spurs were never really threatened.

I think a lineup like this could be useful against LAC. Of course, going big with Duncan and Splitter on the floor at the same time would be better.