PDA

View Full Version : Playing poker with trillions: A prison of debt



Winehole23
11-17-2012, 11:12 AM
A country isn't a business, even though there are politicians who like to treat their voters as if they were employees. Politics is the art of mediating between the political and economic markets, convincing parliaments and citizens that economic policy promotes their prosperity and the common good, and convincing markets and investors that nations cannot be managed in as profit-oriented a way as companies.




After four years of financial crisis, this balance between democracy and the market has been destroyed. On the one hand, governments' massive intervention to rescue the banks and markets has only exacerbated the fundamental problem of legitimization that haunts governments in a democracy. The usual accusation is that the rich are protected while the poor are bled dry. Rarely has it been as roundly confirmed as during the first phase of the financial crisis, when homeowners deeply in debt lost the roof over their heads, while banks, which had gambled with their mortgages, remained in business thanks to taxpayer money.

In the second phase of the crisis, after countries were forced to borrow additional trillions to stabilize the financial markets, the governments' dependency on the financial markets grew to such an extent that the conflict between the market and democracy is now being fought in the open: on the streets of Athens and Madrid, on German TV talk shows, at summit meetings and in election campaigns. The floodlights of democracy are now directed at the financial markets, which are really nothing but a silent web of billions of transactions a day. Every twitch is analyzed, feared, cheered or condemned, and the actions of politicians are judged by whether they benefit or harm the markets.


The attempt by countries to bolster the faltering financial system has in fact increased their dependency on the financial markets to such an extent that their policies are now shaped by two sovereigns: the people and creditors. Creditors and investors demand debt reduction and the prospect of growth, while the people, who want work and prosperity, are noticing that their politicians are now paying more attention to creditors. The power of the street is no match for the power of interest. As a result, the financial crisis has turned into a crisis of democracy, one that can become much more existential than any financial crisis.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/playing-poker-with-trillions-a-prison-of-debt-on-both-sides-of-the-atlantic-a-867404.html

boutons_deux
11-17-2012, 11:24 AM
So 99% were extorted by the 1% (eg, Paulson's TARP 3-pager said "Give me, oh, why not, $700B, within 7 days, out of reach of judiciary and legislature, or we'll collapse the economy"), if the 99% didn't save their bankrupt, corrupt asses, so 99% did, and the 99% is still screwed. iow, the perfect con job.

And You People still wanted for President the consummate, corrupt, serial felony-tax-evading 1%er Bishop Gecko.

Winehole23
11-17-2012, 11:35 AM
you people? I didn't vote for Romney.

boutons_deux
11-17-2012, 11:37 AM
You People know who you are

Winehole23
11-17-2012, 11:39 AM
are you capable of topical commentary, or are you more or less a jack in the box?

TeyshaBlue
11-17-2012, 01:49 PM
are you capable of topical commentary, or are you more or less a jack in the box?

This is a question you have to ask? :lol

symple19
11-17-2012, 02:37 PM
When central banks keep interest rates close to zero for long periods of time, which they have done for years, they disadvantage ordinary savers and favor major investors, gamblers and banks, which can borrow at low rates and invest the money elsewhere at a profit.

I hope I'm dead before the mother of all bubbles finally explodes. I have zero confidence in western governments/financial markets to figure it out before the worst happens

striking article

boutons_deux
11-17-2012, 03:15 PM
The Repugs and Peterson-type assholes have completely hijacked the discussion.

The problem is jobs and economic stimulus, NOT the deficit and spending. The deficit and Banksters' Great Depressioin were caused by Repug/VWRC policies.

Your "topcial commentary" and sterile, effecte academic discussions about the deficit proves how deeply suckered you are into the WRONG DIRECTION, WRONG PRIORTIES.

Winehole23
11-19-2012, 11:01 AM
The problem is jobs and economic stimulus, NOT the deficit and spending.seems you've missed the point. article focuses on debt, not deficit and spending as such.

Winehole23
11-19-2012, 11:20 AM
echo of Robert Reich (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-we-should-stop-obsess_b_2155489.html)?

Winehole23
11-19-2012, 11:45 AM
back on track: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-18/shadow-banking-grows-to-67-trillion-industry-regulators-say.html

boutons_deux
11-19-2012, 11:52 AM
echo of Robert Reich (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-we-should-stop-obsess_b_2155489.html)?

serious economists,not right-wing-shill economists, have been saying the same for years. Repug austerity implemented now in the Banksters Great Depression is bound to flatten, even reverse the weak, slow recovery.

boutons_deux
11-19-2012, 11:54 AM
seems you've missed the point. article focuses on debt, not deficit and spending as such.

the annual deficit contributes to the accumulated debt.

the national DEBT is the direct result of Repug policies. So reversing REpug policies will work to reduce the debt and the deficit.

101A
11-19-2012, 12:26 PM
I haven't voted for a R or a D since that deal was brokered; it pissed me off no end; most posted on this board, however were for the bailout, as were both presidential candidates at the time. Banks should have failed then; we should have toppled over whatever cliff that was, IMO. It was a natural consequence; we might have actually learned a lesson.

LnGrrrR
11-19-2012, 12:33 PM
I wasn't "for" the bailout per se, but it seemed the best of two crappy options.

boutons_deux
11-19-2012, 12:38 PM
"Banks should have failed then"

I would have like to seen nationalization of all bankrupt banks, with the top 5% of mgmt all fired.

People need cheap money like they need clean air, water, land, so money, depositing and borrowing, should be a taxpayer/govt regulated non-profit public utility.

101A
11-19-2012, 01:44 PM
I would have like to seen nationalization of all bankrupt banks, with the top 5% of mgmt all fired.


More power for politicians to control and give out as favors to enrich/empower themselves. Yes. That sounds like an idea that will solve our problems.

The problem, IMO, is too much control and power centralized in Washington and Wall Street - any solution that doesn't alter that dynamic is no solution at all - it's just exacerbating the problem.

boutons_deux
11-19-2012, 02:08 PM
"More power for politicians to control and give out as favors to enrich/empower themselves"

that's always a risk, but the non-profit, public utility banks wouldn't have to pay $100Ms to the mgmt and dividends to shareholders, only excess funds back to depositers coop-style.

"too much control and power centralized in Washington and Wall Street"

Wall St owns and operates the Exec and Congress.

how would you remove the power and how would you allot it, and to whom?