An argument for keeping tax breaks for parents

[LnGrrrR]

From Andrew Sullivan's page, an interesting take on the issue:

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/11/tax-reform-must-be-pro-family-and-pro-growth/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+aei-ideas%2Fposts+%28AEIdeas+Posts%29&utm_content=Google+Reader


I would focus on tax policy. As Phil Longman explains in The Empty Cradle (http://www.newamerica.net/publications/books/the_empty_cradle) – and I paraphrase — by raising and educating their children, parents have already contributed hugely (in the form of human capital) to social insurance systems. The cost of their contribution, in both direct expenses and forgone wages, is often measured in the millions. Requiring parents to also then contribute to payroll taxes is not only unfair, but imprudent for societies that are already consuming more human capital than they produce.


Millions? If that sounds like hyperbole to you...

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/the-cost-in-dollars-of-raising-a-child/?src=me&ref=general


Without excessive expenditures, surely people like us could raise a child for more than the $435,030 the government estimates but less than the $776,000, $1 million or $1.6 million guessed at on the pages of the Wall Street Journal. Right?
I had hoped so, but my estimation of what my spouse and I might spend – and, crucially, what we might lose – having a child ended up being more than those estimates.


Now, that author lives in the northeast so it likely is cheaper for those who live in the midwest/south. But it's an interesting conversation.

And just for completion sakes, what are the monetary benefits to having children? Are there any? (Excepting if your child blows up big in Hollywood or something...)

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/the-benefit-in-dollars-of-raising-a-child/

[CosmicCowboy]

Smart, productive people have fewer kids. Sad but true. Limit the number, multiply the help you can give the kids to be successful in their own lives.

[LnGrrrR]

Smart, productive people have fewer kids. Sad but true. Limit the number, multiply the help you can give the kids to be successful in their own lives.

Yeah, I think those "18 and Counting!" show parents are pretty reprehensible. At least the Eight with Kate thing happened to be a huge fluke, where they had sixtuplets. I don't think that parents are sinners or saints for raising kids, but I do think the idea that "parents are necessary for society to function, therefore, they should get tax breaks" is an interesting one. Some people will say, "They CHOSE to be parents though! No tax breaks!"... but if that's all that people are bringing to the table, the easy counter is that people choose to run businesses, employ people, etc etc and we give tax breaks to encourage that activity as well.

[CosmicCowboy]

That dependent deduction ain't shit if you are doing right by your kids. And they are still always your kids. Help doesn't stop when the deduction ends. I'm in the process right now of buying a nice house with my single adult daughter to get her out of apartment/renter hell.

[Latarian Milton]

the smartest people don't have no kids at all imho.

[CosmicCowboy]

Whats the fucking point then. You live, you die. Raising good kids is a legacy.

[LnGrrrR]

That's pretty much how I see it CC. Sure, I could've not had kids, and traveled the world, and probably retired somewhat comfortably. But then what? I just never envisioned myself NOT having kids, even if it doesn't make economic sense. I guess I'm not a Randian. :lol

[ploto]

and we give tax breaks to encourage that activity as well.

Do we really need to encourage people to reproduce?

[mavs>spurs]

not only should they not get aid but we shouldn't pay for their abortions and contraceptives either

[SnakeBoy]

Whats the fucking point then. You live, you die. Raising good kids is a legacy.

Your life has no meaning without children, that's sad. I hate to break it to you but you live, you die same as people without kids.

[boutons_deux]

HOUSEHOLD INCOME SHORT OF $68K? WELCOME TO THE NEW POVERTY

A new study proves that a family of four needs $67,920 a year (pre-tax) to survive in America. And that’s basic: no vacations, no fancy dinners, no wine tastings, no fun-box deliveries from Amazon or Zappos or whatever every couple of months to break up the crushing monotony of work and eventual death. You will, however, spend an average of $12,000 a year on car insurance and payments on your crappy mid-sized sedan, because we don’t have much in the way of public transportation in this country. And you’ll spend another $12,000 a year on child care, because we don’t like to provide socialism in these parts, ha ha.

Freedom isn’t free, after all.

Not much left after $12,000 a year in rent and utilities, either. Don’t forget to pay $9,000 in taxes on that $67,920! Who do you think you are,General Electric? (http://wonkette.com/441386/g-e-so-good-at-evading-corporate-taxes-that-irs-owes-g-e-3-2-billion)

The median household income in the United States is $52,029 — nearly $16,000 shy of what it actually costs to keep your head above water if you’ve got a two-income two-child household.

A single worker with two young children needs an annual income of $57,756, or just over $27 an hour, to attain economic stability, and a family with two working parents and two young children needs to earn $67,920 a year, or about $16 an hour per worker.

That compares with the national poverty level of $22,050 for a family of four. The most recent data from the Census Bureau found that 14.3 percent of Americans were living below the poverty line in 2009.

http://wonkette.com/442001/welcome-to-poverty-everyone-you-need-household-income-of-68k-to-live (http://wonkette.com/442001/welcome-to-poverty-everyone-you-need-household-income-of-68k-to-live)

[Wild Cobra]

I'm getting tired of all these ways politicians keep trying to buy votes, and how the people whore thenselves out to them.

Why should I pay higher taxes when my children leave the nest?

More to the point, why is the government playing favorites again...

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm getting tired of all these ways politicians keep trying to buy votes, and how the people whore thenselves out to them.

Why should I pay higher taxes when my children leave the nest?

More to the point, why is the government playing favorites again...

can someone translate butthurtneeze for me?

[CosmicCowboy]

Your life has no meaning without children, that's sad. I hate to break it to you but you live, you die same as people without kids.

Fucking dumbass. I have done all the shit you probably wish you could do...had all the cool cars, motorcycles, boats, etc., chased and caught a ton of hot women, had the condo at a ski area in Colorado, etc...sure it had hedonistic meaning and some great memories but at the end of the day it's just stuff. Kids and grandkids are in a class of their own.

[Rick Santorum]

not only should they not get aid but we shouldn't pay for their abortions and contraceptives either

http://cdn.www.carm.org/images/bible6.jpg

http://disney-clipart.com/bambi/jpg/Thumper.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

Your life has no meaning without children, that's sad. I hate to break it to you but you live, you die same as people without kids.

I've got a platoon of kids and grandkids. My life had meaning prior to their births, and if they get into my wallet one more time without asking, my life will have meaning after their deaths.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've got a platoon of kids and grandkids. My life had meaning prior to their births, and if they get into my wallet one more time without asking, my life will have meaning after their deaths.

:lmao

[SnakeBoy]

Fucking dumbass. I have done all the shit you probably wish you could do...had all the cool cars, motorcycles, boats, etc., chased and caught a ton of hot women, had the condo at a ski area in Colorado, etc...sure it had hedonistic meaning and some great memories but at the end of the day it's just stuff. Kids and grandkids are in a class of their own.

Hey your the one who said your life doesn't have meaning without children so don't get pissed at me. LOL talking shit cause you've been to Colorado...fucking rednecks.

[LnGrrrR]

I've got a platoon of kids and grandkids. My life had meaning prior to their births, and if they get into my wallet one more time without asking, my life will have meaning after their deaths.

Well said :toast :lol

[LnGrrrR]

Do we really need to encourage people to reproduce?

Some argue that we need to. Look at Japan, which they're top heavy with elderly. if the birth rate keeps dropping, and people keep living longer... well, those two don't add up to a rosy scenario.

[LnGrrrR]

Why should I pay higher taxes when my children leave the nest?

The fact that you're not supporting them is probably a big one...


More to the point, why is the government playing favorites again...

Uhm.. that's kinda the point of the entire article. I'm guessing you didn't read it?

[Wild Cobra]

Uhm.. that's kinda the point of the entire article. I'm guessing you didn't read it?
Maybe I am just infuriated with things unfair that people like you accept.

Should people with the ability to buy things others cannot have their taxes reduced for buying them?

[LnGrrrR]

Maybe I am just infuriated with things unfair that people like you accept.

Should people with the ability to buy things others cannot have their taxes reduced for buying them?

The argument presented in the OP is that, while no one in particular needs children, society as a whole depends on them. After all, do you think our society would last long if the birth rate dropped precipitously?

Now, people CHOOSE to have children, so we shouldn't necessarily reward this. However, if the birth rate drops greatly, and the expected life rate goes up, then maybe producing children SHOULD be rewarded.

People who have capital gains and other types of savings have their tax burden reduced because it's (in theory) a benefit to the nation. You yourself have argued we need to keep tax rates low to keep producing jobs in America. This is the same argument, except replace "jobs" with "children".

[101A]

Do we really need to encourage people to reproduce?

We already do; only right now we only do it for the least productive among us.

[LnGrrrR]

We already do; only right now we only do it for the least productive among us.

Do you think there should be a discount for all parents, or just those under a certain income level?

Although I do think that other forms of promotion child-bearing would be something to look at... what's Singapore doing, for instance?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443545504577567052477900124.html

:lol

[101A]

HOUSEHOLD INCOME SHORT OF $68K? WELCOME TO THE NEW POVERTY

You will, however, spend an average of $12,000 a year on car insurance and payments on your crappy mid-sized sedan, because we don’t have much in the way of public transportation in this country.

Ten you're an idiot.

Bought an '03 Odyssey in '07 for $11,500.

Paid cash, but even if you don't; no way it amounts to 12K a year. Insurance is $550/yr - full coverage.

Have put 110,000 miles on it since then; and should have another 100k on it.

[TeyshaBlue]

We already do; only right now we only do it for the least productive among us.

The converse being targeted reproduction incentives for the most productive? Sounds a little eugenics-ish to me.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey your the one who said your life doesn't have meaning without children so don't get pissed at me. LOL talking shit cause you've been to Colorado...fucking rednecks.


:lmao

another reading comprehension fail

[Wild Cobra]

Ten you're an idiot.

Bought an '03 Odyssey in '07 for $11,500.

Paid cash, but even if you don't; no way it amounts to 12K a year. Insurance is $550/yr - full coverage.

Have put 110,000 miles on it since then; and should have another 100k on it.
I thought about bringing that up, but it's boutons... Nobody believes his BS anyway.

[101A]

Do you think there should be a discount for all parents, or just those under a certain income level?

Although I do think that other forms of promotion child-bearing would be something to look at... what's Singapore doing, for instance?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443545504577567052477900124.html

:lol

Promoting Sex = Great, but my wife doesn't watch commercials, so whatever.


The converse being targeted reproduction incentives for the most productive? Sounds a little eugenics-ish to me.

To both; never actually said I supported addl. tax breaks for children; just made a statement about a truism regarding the Welfare state. As for the tax break; making it equivalent to what it ACTUALLY costs to raise a kid, on on hand, seems appropriate; our country is swimming in debt and large scale tax deductions for vast swaths of the public right now is not feasible; don't think it would encourage addl. children anyway. The article in the OP seems like a woman justifying to her man why she doesn't want kids.

Gonna go watch Idiocracy again...

[TeyshaBlue]

Promoting Sex = Great, but my wife doesn't watch commercials, so whatever.



To both; never actually said I supported addl. tax breaks for children; just made a statement about a truism regarding the Welfare state. As for the tax break; making it equivalent to what it ACTUALLY costs to raise a kid, on on hand, seems appropriate; our country is swimming in debt and large scale tax deductions for vast swaths of the public right now is not feasible; don't think it would encourage addl. children anyway. The article in the OP seems like a woman justifying to her man why she doesn't want kids.

Gonna go watch Idiocracy again...

Yeah, I was just posting the converse to head off the predictable knee jerk reaction.:lol

[Wild Cobra]

The argument presented in the OP is that, while no one in particular needs children, society as a whole depends on them. After all, do you think our society would last long if the birth rate dropped precipitously?

Do you think a tax break is going to change if people have kids or not? If it does, it most certainly woun't be any significant amount.

"Oh look honey... If we have another child, we can pay $100/month less in taxes.

Wow... 100 bux. Does this come close to the price of raising a kid?


Now, people CHOOSE to have children, so we shouldn't necessarily reward this. However, if the birth rate drops greatly, and the expected life rate goes up, then maybe producing children SHOULD be rewarded.

I see... So you wish to move any possible hardship on your generation, to theirs... How touching!


People who have capital gains and other types of savings have their tax burden reduced because it's (in theory) a benefit to the nation.
I disagree with your choice of words, and capital gains are taxed lower because of risk.

You yourself have argued we need to keep tax rates low to keep producing jobs in America. This is the same argument, except replace "jobs" with "children".

I disagree with having variable exemptions. I believe all people who pay income taxes should pay on the same scale. I believe in equality rather than favoritism.

[boutons_deux]

"capital gains are taxed lower because of risk."

bull fucking shit. capital gains are taxed lower because the 1% paid legislators to lower the rate.

[LnGrrrR]

101A, I agree with you in that sense: If I waited until I was "ready" for children, I would never have had them. :lol

[LnGrrrR]

Do you think a tax break is going to change if people have kids or not? If it does, it most certainly woun't be any significant amount.

"Oh look honey... If we have another child, we can pay $100/month less in taxes.

Wow... 100 bux. Does this come close to the price of raising a kid?

I'm not an economist, I don't know if it would or not. But many people argue that some parents have multiple children to be on welfare... that would seem to be an equally faulty argument in this case.

Additionally, it's not so much the "Yay an extra 100 bucks to spend on movies!", but moreso, "An extra 100 bucks might make it financially feasible for us to afford a kid". I don't think anyone's suggesting that government help pay the total cost of a child's expenditure.


I see... So you wish to move any possible hardship on your generation, to theirs... How touching!


Not at all. I don't think you read me correctly. Tell me, do you agree or disagree that our society ultimately needs children to function?


I disagree with your choice of words, and capital gains are taxed lower because of risk.

Explain please?


I disagree with having variable exemptions. I believe all people who pay income taxes should pay on the same scale. I believe in equality rather than favoritism.

But you're ok with giving corporations and such less taxes, because it benefits us as a nation, correct?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not an economist, I don't know if it would or not. But many people argue that some parents have multiple children to be on welfare... that would seem to be an equally faulty argument in this case.

I've never seen that argument, but i have made a similar argument of single women spacing their children out 3 years apart. That's entirely different with the way the law reads. It has nothing to do with tax breaks, but the amazing welfare benefits we give single women with young children.


Additionally, it's not so much the "Yay an extra 100 bucks to spend on movies!", but moreso, "An extra 100 bucks might make it financially feasible for us to afford a kid".
Not a very smart move... making financial decisions that close to being in the red now, is it?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that government help pay the total cost of a child's expenditure.

Just wait. Every time we give an inch, they ask for another mile.


Not at all. I don't think you read me correctly. Tell me, do you agree or disagree that our society ultimately needs children to function?

Sure we do, but to use "funding our retirement years" as a reason or excuse is just another cradle to grave expectation of entitlements.

I hate the entitlement mentality. It is what is destroying this nation!


Explain please?

Why there is risk? Isn't it obvious?


But you're ok with giving corporations and such less taxes, because it benefits us as a nation, correct?

Yes, but my reason is that when you tax something more, you are inhibiting growth in such areas. When you tax something less, you increase growth in such areas. I believe in taxing consumption rather than production. Tax what a person is able to buy. Not what they are forced to pay based on arbitrary facts.

If US corporations and businesses paid less in taxes, or nothing, they would be able to reduce their prices in world trade and here. If we taxed consumption of products instead of production, we would pay more for imported goods. In the balance, we would have a net positive effect to the economy. Our local purchasing power would remain about neutral, while making imports less desirable. It would make the different in some industries to return manufacturing here.

This should be a different thread. I have said this before, and this is the end of my discussion on the topic in this thread.

[SnakeBoy]

Yeah, I think those "18 and Counting!" show parents are pretty reprehensible. At least the Eight with Kate thing happened to be a huge fluke, where they had sixtuplets. I don't think that parents are sinners or saints for raising kids, but I do think the idea that "parents are necessary for society to function, therefore, they should get tax breaks" is an interesting one. Some people will say, "They CHOSE to be parents though! No tax breaks!"... but if that's all that people are bringing to the table, the easy counter is that people choose to run businesses, employ people, etc etc and we give tax breaks to encourage that activity as well.

The counter to your counter is a flat progressive tax code. You make x you pay y. Rates go down, govt revenue goes up, and the govt gets out of the business of using the tax code to "engineer" society and instead the tax code becomes simply a method of revenue collection.

[Wild Cobra]

The counter to your counter is a flat progressive tax code. You make x you pay y. Rates go down, govt revenue goes up, and the govt gets out of the business of using the tax code to "engineer" society and instead the tax code becomes simply a method of revenue collection.
This is the key point I didn't make well at all.

Why do people tolerate government engineering society?

[CosmicCowboy]

The counter to your counter is a flat progressive tax code. You make x you pay y. Rates go down, govt revenue goes up, and the govt gets out of the business of using the tax code to "engineer" society and instead the tax code becomes simply a method of revenue collection.

They will never do away with the mortgage deduction....maybe cap it at a certain level...( 1 million?) but it would be devastating to existing home values if they eliminated it completely.

[Wild Cobra]

They will never do away with the mortgage deduction....maybe cap it at a certain level...( 1 million?) but it would be devastating to existing home values if they eliminated it completely.
Things like this need to be phased out over time.

Is it right, that someone who can afford to buy gets a tax break, when the renter does not?

[SnakeBoy]

They will never do away with the mortgage deduction....maybe cap it at a certain level...( 1 million?) but it would be devastating to existing home values if they eliminated it completely.

I don't think the second part is true, the first definitely is.

[CosmicCowboy]

Things like this need to be phased out over time.

Is it right, that someone who can afford to buy gets a tax break, when the renter does not?

The renter pays lower rent because the owner of the rental property is deducting the interest making his basis in the property lower and allowing him to rent it for less.


I don't think the second part is true, the first definitely is.

You have obviously never bought a home and seen how the qualification process works.

[Wild Cobra]

The renter pays lower rent because the owner of the rental property is deducting the interest making his basis in the property lower and allowing him to rent it for less.

I see...

Renters subsidies...

[vy65]

bitches be baby crazy

I have a tough enough time getting her to agree to abortions; this wouldn't help my cause

[SnakeBoy]

The renter pays lower rent because the owner of the rental property is deducting the interest making his basis in the property lower and allowing him to rent it for less.


If the homeowners tax rate is let's say 15% and he loses his mortgage interest deduction but his tax rate drops to 9 or 10% then where is the new financial burden on the homeowner.



You have obviously never bought a home and seen how the qualification process works.

:rolleyes

[CosmicCowboy]

If the homeowners tax rate is let's say 15% and he loses his mortgage interest deduction but his tax rate drops to 9 or 10% then where is the new financial burden on the homeowner.

They aren't talking about eliminating deductions to put more money in taxpayers pockets...quite the oposite, wouldn't you agree?



:rolleyes

What to roll eyes at? Thats like increasing the house payment or reducing the amount of house you can buy...say you are looking at financing a house for 30 years and your payment would be $1000...eliminating that deduction makes the house suddenly cost $1300 a month so that a lot of people couldn't qualify.

[SnakeBoy]

What to roll eyes at? Thats like increasing the house payment or reducing the amount of house you can buy...say you are looking at financing a house for 30 years and your payment would be $1000...eliminating that deduction makes the house suddenly cost $1300 a month so that a lot of people couldn't qualify.

Your stament that I must have never bought a home.

Ok let's baby step thru this. When the bank is qualifying someone do you think they take the persons tax rate into account?

[CosmicCowboy]

Your stament that I must have never bought a home.

Ok let's baby step thru this. When the bank is qualifying someone do you think they take the persons tax rate into account?

Of course they do. That's why you have to furnish at least two years tax returns. That is what determines the base income they then use the qualifying ratios on.

[SnakeBoy]

Of course they do. That's why you have to furnish at least two years tax returns. That is what determines the base income they then use the qualifying ratios on.

So then if someome makes 50K they are currently in a 25% bracket. If their bracket became 10% do you think this increase the amount a bank would think they can afford?

[CosmicCowboy]

So then if someome makes 50K they are currently in a 25% bracket. If their bracket became 10% do you think this increase the amount a bank would think they can afford?

:lmao @ dropping from 25% to 10%. The ONLY reason they would ever modify the tax code is to bring in more income to the government, not less.

[SnakeBoy]

:lmao @ dropping from 25% to 10%. The ONLY reason they would ever modify the tax code is to bring in more income to the government, not less.

God your stupid. What do you think the effective tax rate is on 50K?

[Drachen]

Ten you're an idiot.

Bought an '03 Odyssey in '07 for $11,500.

Paid cash, but even if you don't; no way it amounts to 12K a year. Insurance is $550/yr - full coverage.

Have put 110,000 miles on it since then; and should have another 100k on it.

Jesus! 12k for car payments/insurance? Total for those for my car, my van and my motorcycle, and insuring both myself and my wife on all three = 5500 a year and that is (historically) high for me.

[CosmicCowboy]

God your stupid. What do you think the effective tax rate is on 50K?

:lmao @ you thinking I'M stupid, flat tax boy. I'm explaining the reality and you are the one that isn't getting it. If the tax code gets rewritten it will be rewritten in the governments favor. Your payments to uncle Sam will go up, not down, no matter what "rate" is used in the calculation.

[SnakeBoy]

Ahh... I just spotted that you're currenlty buying your daughter a house. You have long ago established yourself as a fake talk radio conservative who villifies everyone else's govt assistance but loves your govt assistance so it's not suprising you love the mortgage interest deduction now.

Effective tax rate...you should look that up.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ahh... I just spotted that you're currenlty buying your daughter a house. You have long ago established yourself as a fake talk radio conservative who villifies everyone else's govt assistance but loves your govt assistance so it's not suprising you love the mortgage interest deduction now.

Effective tax rate...you should look that up.

Put your money where your mouth is, flat tax boy. I'm saying the mortgage deduction will never be eliminated on mortgages under 1 million dollars.

[SnakeBoy]

Put your money where your mouth is, flat tax boy. I'm saying the mortgage deduction will never be eliminated on mortgages under 1 million dollars.

I already said a flat progressive tax will never happen idiot.

Go back to bitching about people getting free shit from the govt and then being the first in line with your hand out if you can get something free...fake ass motherfucker.

[CosmicCowboy]

I already said a flat progressive tax will never happen idiot.

Go back to bitching about people getting free shit from the govt and then being the first in line with your hand out if you can get something free...fake ass motherfucker.

I do everything absolutely legal within the tax code bitch. I didn't write the rules, I just live with them, so GFY.

[TeyshaBlue]

Jesus! 12k for car payments/insurance? Total for those for my car, my van and my motorcycle, and insuring both myself and my wife on all three = 5500 a year and that is (historically) high for me.

That figure is absurd. I actually downloaded the BEST data tables. It's a messy analysis that takes awhile to wade through. They do a decent job of trying to quantify variables such as expenses related to the age of the family member, but once you start averaging, but not weighting the variables (don't get me started on regional variance), is when you get steaming piles of summary conclusion sets like Wonkette latched onto. Of course, since it passes bouton's confirmation bias test, it gets posted as undisputed fact.

[Wild Cobra]

Jesus! 12k for car payments/insurance? Total for those for my car, my van and my motorcycle, and insuring both myself and my wife on all three = 5500 a year and that is (historically) high for me.
The three cars on my policy are something like $1,100 for me and my daughter, for six months.

[CosmicCowboy]

With FHA @ 3.25%/30 fixed with 3.5% down and no points/origination you are dumb not to buy a house now if you can.

Don't be a hater just because you can't qualify, flat tax boy.

[TeyshaBlue]

I already said a flat progressive tax will never happen idiot.

Go back to bitching about people getting free shit from the govt and then being the first in line with your hand out if you can get something free...fake ass motherfucker.

You're going to conflate govt safety net programs with tax incentives? Really?

[TeyshaBlue]

The three cars on my policy are something like $1,100 for me and my daughter, for six months.

lol...try insuring 5 cars, with 2 of them <25 males. Even lumping my homeowners insurance into the payment (lol bundling), I still pay $425/mo for insurance. I guess I could get falling down drunk and buy a 40k car so my combined monthly car +insurance payments reach $1,000, but that's hardly a financial necessity.

[SnakeBoy]

With FHA @ 3.25%/30 fixed with 3.5% down and no points/origination you are dumb not to buy a house now if you can.

Don't be a hater just because you can't qualify, flat tax boy.

Already bought my house...paid for. If I want another one I'll write a check. CC loves his govt assistance.

[Wild Cobra]

lol...try insuring 5 cars, with 2 of them <25 males. Even lumping my homeowners insurance into the payment (lol bundling), I still pay $425/mo for insurance. I guess I could get falling down drunk and buy a 40k car so my combined monthly car +insurance payments reach $1,000, but that's hardly a financial necessity.
Ouch...

My daughter will be 25 in a few months. That should lower the rate a little.

[TeyshaBlue]

Ouch...

My daughter will be 25 in a few months. That should lower the rate a little.

It makes a pretty noticeable difference. You'll enjoy the extra cash. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Already bought my house...paid for. If I want another one I'll write a check. CC loves his govt assistance.

sure you did...:rolleyes

[Drachen]

The three cars on my policy are something like $1,100 for me and my daughter, for six months.

no doubt, my 5500 dollar figure included vehicle payments as well as insurance.

[Wild Cobra]

no doubt, my 5500 dollar figure included vehicle payments as well as insurance.
My two, and her car, are paid for... at least in title. I took a personal loan to pay for the last one I bought, but it is a clear title. No lean holder.

[SnakeBoy]

Fuck all those ******s and mexicans getting govt assistance but my little precious is to good to be in an apartment the govt needs to help her out. She's my little precious not like those losers wanting free shit from Obama.

Free Obama golf cart where do I sign up?

LOL fake motherfucker.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL fake motherfucker.


LOL LOOOOOOOOOOOOZER...:lmao

[Drachen]

Snakeboy, if you are able to purchase another home by just "writing a check" then it would really behoove you, especially in this market, to lever that up a bit and get some real estate cheap, especially since rents are now beginning to outpace mortgage payments for equivalent houses.

Shit, you don't even have to take the mortgage tax deduction if you don't want as I am sure that you don't deduct the property taxes that you are allowed to so that you can stay in accordance with your convictions.

[Drachen]

My two, and her car, are paid for... at least in title. I took a personal loan to pay for the last one I bought, but it is a clear title. No lean holder.

why do this when secured rates are lower than unsecured. (unless your plan was to go with liability only on that car)

[CosmicCowboy]

Snakeboy, if you are able to purchase another home by just "writing a check" then it would really behoove you, especially in this market, to lever that up a bit and get some real estate cheap, especially since rents are now beginning to outpace mortgage payments for equivalent houses.

Shit, you don't even have to take the mortgage tax deduction if you don't want as I am sure that you don't deduct the property taxes that you are allowed to so that you can stay in accordance with your convictions.

Exactly. Being smart financially is not inherently evil. Houses are gaining value 5% a year in SA...at least those that are nice and in the good areas. Borrowing at 3.25% just makes good sense.

[TeyshaBlue]

Snakeboy, if you are able to purchase another home by just "writing a check" then it would really behoove you, especially in this market, to lever that up a bit and get some real estate cheap, especially since rents are now beginning to outpace mortgage payments for equivalent houses.

Shit, you don't even have to take the mortgage tax deduction if you don't want as I am sure that you don't deduct the property taxes that you are allowed to so that you can stay in accordance with your convictions.

No kidding. Hell, I'd leverage 80k @ 3.5% just for the hell of it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Interest rates aren't gonna stay stupid low like this forever. Hell, the first house I ever bought I paid 200 basic points up front in cash to buy the interest rate down to 14%.

[CosmicCowboy]

Snakeboy, if you are able to purchase another home by just "writing a check" then it would really behoove you, especially in this market, to lever that up a bit and get some real estate cheap, especially since rents are now beginning to outpace mortgage payments for equivalent houses.

Shit, you don't even have to take the mortgage tax deduction if you don't want as I am sure that you don't deduct the property taxes that you are allowed to so that you can stay in accordance with your convictions.

No shit. This house I'm in the process of buying would rent for more than the monthly payment which includes taxes and insurance.

[SnakeBoy]

Snakeboy, if you are able to purchase another home by just "writing a check" then it would really behoove you, especially in this market, to lever that up a bit and get some real estate cheap, especially since rents are now beginning to outpace mortgage payments for equivalent houses.


yeah because the real estate market is going to rebound to pre 08 levels, everything is fine what could go wrong...no thanks I'll pass.


Shit, you don't even have to take the mortgage tax deduction if you don't want as I am sure that you don't deduct the property taxes that you are allowed to so that you can stay in accordance with your convictions.

I do take my deductions. But I don't adjust my views on how I think things should be based on what would benefit me at the moment, and then bitch about everyone else for doing the same.

[LnGrrrR]

Not a very smart move... making financial decisions that close to being in the red now, is it?

Probably not, but it's merely a simple hypothetical.


Sure we do, but to use "funding our retirement years" as a reason or excuse is just another cradle to grave expectation of entitlements.

If you agree that children are important, what would you do if we ended up becoming top heavy like some other industrialized countries? Would you just tell the elderly to suck it up and cut their benefits? Or would you suggest policy changes?


Why there is risk? Isn't it obvious?

Considering I don't use capital gains, no, not really.


Yes, but my reason is that when you tax something more, you are inhibiting growth in such areas. When you tax something less, you increase growth in such areas. I believe in taxing consumption rather than production. Tax what a person is able to buy. Not what they are forced to pay based on arbitrary facts.

By taxing corporations "less" though, you are ultimately forcing others to pick up the tab though. (In theory, neither necessarily affects the other, but in the real world you have to collect money somehow.) If you taxed corporations at a higher rate, then we could provide those same tax breaks to parents instead. I wasn't aware you were a "tax consumption" person though. Would that make you for a national sales tax?


If US corporations and businesses paid less in taxes, or nothing, they would be able to reduce their prices in world trade and here. If we taxed consumption of products instead of production, we would pay more for imported goods. In the balance, we would have a net positive effect to the economy. Our local purchasing power would remain about neutral, while making imports less desirable. It would make the different in some industries to return manufacturing here.

I'm not quite sure about this, as I haven't done the required research to speak knowledgeably about this topic. It's an interesting idea.

[TeyshaBlue]

No shit. This house I'm in the process of buying would rent for more than the monthly payment which includes taxes and insurance.

The Joys of Landlordship are grossly exaggerated tbh.

I get really tired of learning trades. Fuck, I'm almost HVAC certified by now.:depressed

[LnGrrrR]

The Joys of Landlordship are grossly exaggerated tbh.

I get really tired of learning trades. Fuck, I'm almost HVAC certified by now.:depressed

This is why my life plan currently goes as follows:

6 1/2 more years in the military
Some 20+ years after that doing networking stuff
Eventually maybe retire


I know some people who plan on doing 20 years in the military, but they want to do a completely different job on the outside. No thanks, I'll keep my 20+ years of experience. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

The Joys of Landlordship are grossly exaggerated tbh.

I get really tired of learning trades. Fuck, I'm almost HVAC certified by now.:depressed

LOL, I started out in home building so I'm pretty good at all that shit.

[Drachen]

yeah because the real estate market is going to rebound to pre 08 levels, everything is fine what could go wrong...no thanks I'll pass.



I do take my deductions. But I don't adjust my views on how I think things should be based on what would benefit me at the moment, and then bitch about everyone else for doing the same.

It doesn't have to rebound to pre-08 levels for you to make off like a bandit. Things could stay exactly as they are now and you still make great money. Hell, where do you have your money? back yard?

Also, you have complained about welfare practices, but are calling CC out for taking his deductions while doing the same yourself.

[CuckingFunt]

The Joys of Landlordship are grossly exaggerated tbh.

I get really tired of learning trades. Fuck, I'm almost HVAC certified by now.:depressed

Working in residential property management for ten years was enough to teach me that I never want to own rental property.

[TeyshaBlue]

It doesn't have to rebound to pre-08 levels for you to make off like a bandit. Things could stay exactly as they are now and you still make great money. Hell, where do you have your money? back yard?

Also, you have complained about welfare practices, but are calling CC out for taking his deductions while doing the same yourself.

I don't think Snake's complained about welfare...he's honing in on the perceived hypocrisy in someone deriding welfare while simultaneously taking advantage of tax credits.

The problem is the conflation of welfare and tax credits. One of these is not like the other.....

[TeyshaBlue]

Working in residential property management for ten years was enough to teach me that I never want to own rental property.

Yeah. I had to learn the hard way.

[TeyshaBlue]

Want some cheap rental properties?

Buy one get one free! :lol

[Th'Pusher]

San Antonio sees surge in home sales SABOR reports (http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/blog/2012/11/san-antonio-sees-surge-in-home-sales.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-11-20)

[Drachen]

I don't think Snake's complained about welfare...he's honing in on the perceived hypocrisy in someone deriding welfare while simultaneously taking advantage of tax credits.

The problem is the conflation of welfare and tax credits. One of these is not like the other.....

If he has never done so, then I apologize, I may have mixed him up with someone else.

[CosmicCowboy]

Want some cheap rental properties?

Buy one get one free! :lol

I'll have my people get with your people...:lol

[TeyshaBlue]

I'll have my people get with your people...:lol

Double the Green Stamps if done by tomorrow!

[Drachen]

Want some cheap rental properties?

Buy one get one free! :lol


Owner financed at 3.25%? LOL

Oh and can you please move the properties to SA so that I can watch over them?

[TeyshaBlue]

Don't make that offer twice.

[SnakeBoy]

The problem is the conflation of welfare and tax credits. One of these is not like the other.....

There is a difference between the two but the difference makes CC's hypocrisy even worse. He bitches about people who want free food so they don't starve and then brags how he got free shit he didn't need and could have afforded without govt help.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is a difference between the two but the difference makes CC's hypocrisy even worse. He bitches about people who want free food so they don't starve and then brags how he got free shit he didn't need and could have afforded without govt help.

Show me a post where I bitched about feeding starving people.

You can't you little bitch. GFY

[TeyshaBlue]

There is a difference between the two but the difference makes CC's hypocrisy even worse. He bitches about people who want free food so they don't starve and then brags how he got free shit he didn't need and could have afforded without govt help.

You're adding quite a few additional qualifiers that, up to this point, are unsupported. Starving populations are but a subset of those receiving free food. If you want to equate the Lone Star card user using the card for a Slurpee at the 7-11 to CC getting free golf carts, well, that's a little stronger association than welfare v tax credits.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not sure that equates to hypocrisy, tho. Once subset is working for the benefits, while the other, ostensibly, is not. Of couse, I just did the same thing I accused you of. I took a subset and made the entire population a class.

It's easy to do.

[TeyshaBlue]

in other words, it aint that easy to make a case for hypocrisy stick.

[Wild Cobra]

why do this when secured rates are lower than unsecured. (unless your plan was to go with liability only on that car)
I guess that depends on ones credit rating and how they borrow it. My interest rate is 1.375%.

[SnakeBoy]

It doesn't have to rebound to pre-08 levels for you to make off like a bandit. Things could stay exactly as they are now and you still make great money. Hell, where do you have your money? back yard?


Savings? Might as well be in my backyard...money market account. Our current savings rate sets us up for a very good early retirement. No need to risk that money.

Investment money...high risk/high reward stocks, short term only. I've done well overall, taken some hits lately though. This is money I can afford to lose.


Also, you have complained about welfare practices, but are calling CC out for taking his deductions while doing the same yourself.

I probably have...the current system is a something for nothing system. I believe every wage earner should pay income tax, even if it's a token amount, and social programs should be done thru effective social programs not the tax code. Doing it with the tax code doesn't work.

What I don't do is say fuck those people who bought houses they couldn't afford and then change my tune when I want to buy a house I can't afford without govt tax breaks.

[TeyshaBlue]

in other words, it aint that easy to make a case for hypocrisy stick.

Somebody, please stop me.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/itstimetostoppostingCat.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

I guess that depends on ones credit rating and how they borrow it. My interest rate is 1.375%.

Damn

And I though I did good at 2.3% on the Crew Cab Z71 I just bought. and before I get accused of being a richer it's used and I shopped for two months till I found the deal I wanted...Hard loaded, 50K miles, chevy certified (with warranty) for 25K. Again, at that interest I'll finance all day long instead of paying cash.

[Wild Cobra]

Damn

And I though I did good at 2.3% on the Crew Cab Z71 I just bought. and before I get accused of being a richer it's used and I shopped for two months till I found the deal I wanted...Hard loaded, 50K miles, chevy certified (with warranty) for 25K. Again, at that interest I'll finance all day long instead of paying cash.
In my case, I don't think the credit rating matters. Since the growth was slow, I borrowed against myself. From my 401k. I'm paying myself back.

[CosmicCowboy]

In my case, I don't think the credit rating matters. Since the growth was slow, I borrowed against myself. From my 401k. I'm paying myself back.

It's actually my company truck and my company will make the payments but I used my name/credit rating so I didn't have to fuck with giving out corporate financials, etc. and surprisingly interest rates are a couple hundred basic points cheaper for individuals than for companies.

[TeyshaBlue]

Plus, you can write that entire 25k off your taxes, right?

[CosmicCowboy]

Plus, you can write that entire 25k off your taxes, right?

Yep

Don't hate the playa, hate the game...:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Hey snake boy, don't forget the solar panel tax credits too! They are gonna look awesome shining down on my free golf carts.

GFY :lmao

[SnakeBoy]

Hey snake boy, don't forget the solar panel tax credits too! They are gonna look awesome shining down on my free golf carts.

GFY :lmao

Fake and Proud of it. Good for you. Can't wait for your next letter to the GOP telling them what it will take for them to get your fake conservative vote.

I look forward to someday seeing your old ass at a tea party revival meeting holding up the "Keep your govt hands off my medicare" sign.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fake and Proud of it. Good for you. Can't wait for your next letter to the GOP telling them what it will take for them to get your fake conservative vote.

I look forward to someday seeing your old ass at a tea party revival meeting holding up the "Keep your govt hands off my medicare" sign.

:lmao

you are too young to be carrying so much anger.

sounds like you need to get laid.

[Wild Cobra]

Fake and Proud of it. Good for you. Can't wait for your next letter to the GOP telling them what it will take for them to get your fake conservative vote.

I look forward to someday seeing your old ass at a tea party revival meeting holding up the "Keep your govt hands off my medicare" sign.
There is nothing fake about being pissed of at a system, but then take advantage of it to get some of your tax dollars back. At least CC is able to recover some of his tax dollars. Most of us can't.

Good job CC.

[SnakeBoy]

There is nothing fake about being pissed of at a system, but then take advantage of it to get some of your tax dollars back. At least CC is able to recover some of his tax dollars. Most of us can't.

Good job CC.

Nope there isn't anything wrong with using the system that is. CC got upset over the suggestion that the system should be changed so that he can't take advantage of it, that's the difference.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nope there isn't anything wrong with using the system that is. CC got upset over the suggestion that the system should be changed so that he can't take advantage of it, that's the difference.

Please find a post where i said that you lying piece of shit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How is CC fake? He votes for what's best for his wallet and openly admits it. Idk how that's fake at all.

[Drachen]

How is CC fake? He votes for what's best for his wallet and openly admits it. Idk how that's fake at all.

I think that Snakeboy is saying that he is fake because he has expressed displeasure with government handing out so much, yet accepts those handouts with arms wide open (Golfcart).

[SnakeBoy]

Please find a post where i said that you lying piece of shit.

I responded to Lngrr, never mentioned the mortgage interest deduction, you jumped in on the mortgage interest deduction and started with the insults because you are currently buying a home and want your mortgage interest deduction.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I think that Snakeboy is saying that he is fake because he has expressed displeasure with government handing out so much, yet accepts those handouts with arms wide open (Golfcart).
He doesn't like handouts that don't apply to him but wants handouts that do apply to him.

Welcome to America :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

I responded to Lngrr, never mentioned the mortgage interest deduction, you jumped in on the mortgage interest deduction and started with the insults because you are currently buying a home and want your mortgage interest deduction.

I made the statement that politically they are never going to do away with the mortgage interest deduction. That was a statement of fact.

Work on your reading comprehension shithead.

[SnakeBoy]

He doesn't like handouts that don't apply to him but wants handouts that do apply to him.


Bingo!

[SnakeBoy]

I made the statement that politically they are never going to do away with the mortgage interest deduction. That was a statement of fact.

Work on your reading comprehension shithead.

I agreed that it would never happen...you still got upset over the thought that you wouldn't get your deduction.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm also totally in favor of the solar panel deduction, and anyone in favor of alternative energy should be. The government is giving someone incentive to be more energy independent and put money into the alternative energy industry. It's a tax break that makes total sense.

[CosmicCowboy]

I agreed that it would never happen...you still got upset over the thought that you wouldn't get your deduction.

Quote where I got upset over the thought that I would lose the deduction you lying piece of shit.

[Drachen]

He doesn't like handouts that don't apply to him but wants handouts that do apply to him.

Welcome to America :lol

right, it still makes him (and whoever else you want to throw into this) hypocritical. This is what (I believe) SB was meaning by fake.

[TeyshaBlue]

right, it still makes him (and whoever else you want to throw into this) hypocritical. This is what (I believe) SB was meaning by fake.

I still have a difficult time equivocating Welfare to Tax Deductions.

[Drachen]

He doesn't like handouts that don't apply to him but wants handouts that do apply to him.

Welcome to America :lol

You don't have to take things that you are "entitled" to. My family has been "entitled" to ~2500 in SSI payments for my step daughter for a few years. We have gotten by without it, so I figured I would save that money for someone else. I am sure that people will point out that I am a fucking idiot for not taking the money, but if I don't need it and can get by without it, how can I possibly take it?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

right, it still makes him (and whoever else you want to throw into this) hypocritical. This is what (I believe) SB was meaning by fake.

I don't think it's hypocritical. Greedy perhaps, but wanting to keep money you've earned via tax breaks isn't the same type of handout as food stamps/welfare. The argument can be made why his "handout" makes sense and the other doesn't. It's not something I remotely agree with, but it's not a hypocritical argument imo.

[Drachen]

I don't think it's hypocritical. Greedy perhaps, but wanting to keep money you've earned via tax breaks isn't the same type of handout as food stamps/welfare. The argument can be made why his "handout" makes sense and the other doesn't. It's not something I remotely agree with, but it's not a hypocritical argument imo.


Its social engineering. Buy a house, buy an electric vehicle, buy solar panels.

So is welfare, etc though, here is some money, go buy some food, and DONT steal from me to get that food. Don't rob me to get your food or your rent for housing, etc. Either way it is a way to funnel behavior.

[SnakeBoy]

I still have a difficult time equivocating Welfare to Tax Deductions.

It's the mentality that's the same. When DarrinS posts the youtube of a black guy in front of the welfare office talking smack about how he got his Obama bucks CC is right there criticizing "those people". Yet he loves to brag about how he got his. If life dealt CC a different hand he'd jump right in that line to get his Obama bucks and talk shit just the same.

[TeyshaBlue]

You don't have to take things that you are "entitled" to. My family has been "entitled" to ~2500 in SSI payments for my step daughter for a few years. We have gotten by without it, so I figured I would save that money for someone else. I am sure that people will point out that I am a fucking idiot for not taking the money, but if I don't need it and can get by without it, how can I possibly take it?

Nobody would call you a fucking idiot! for only that.

[TeyshaBlue]

It's the mentality that's the same. When DarrinS posts the youtube of a black guy in front of the welfare office talking smack about how he got his Obama bucks CC is right there criticizing "those people". Yet he loves to brag about how he got his. If life dealt CC a different hand he'd jump right in that line to get his Obama bucks and talk shit just the same.

Mebbe so, mebbe no. He might just take the Drachen route.

[Drachen]

You don't have to take things that you are "entitled" to. My family has been "entitled" to ~2500 in SSI payments for my step daughter for a few years. We have gotten by without it, so I figured I would save that money for someone else. I am sure that people will point out that I am a fucking idiot for not taking the money, but if I don't need it and can get by without it, how can I possibly take it?

Before I get a big head about taking this "holier than thou" position. I still take use my little tax cred... I mean children, so I can't take an incredibly solid stand here.

[SnakeBoy]

Mebbe so, mebbe no. He might just take the Drachen route.

Never seen Drachen bragging about what he got out of the govt.

[Drachen]

Never seen Drachen bragging about what he got out of the govt.

To be fair, I take my mortgage interest deduction and would use the solar tax credit if I were in a position to do so.

(my facade continues to crumble, maybe I should just take the SSI)

[TeyshaBlue]

To be fair, I take my mortgage interest deduction and would use the solar tax credit if I were in a position to do so.

(my facade continues to crumble, maybe I should just take the SSI)


:lol:toast

[CosmicCowboy]

Never seen Drachen bragging about what he got out of the govt.

Still waiting for you to quote where I was crying about losing the mortgage deduction you lying piece of shit.

[CosmicCowboy]

*crickets*

jealous lying little bitch probably still lives with his mommy.

[LnGrrrR]

You don't have to take things that you are "entitled" to. My family has been "entitled" to ~2500 in SSI payments for my step daughter for a few years. We have gotten by without it, so I figured I would save that money for someone else. I am sure that people will point out that I am a fucking idiot for not taking the money, but if I don't need it and can get by without it, how can I possibly take it?

A little more than a year ago, I would've qualified for WIC, and asked what people thought on here. I ultimately decided not to, for the same reasoning that you used above. I can get by relatively comfortably, and other people need it more. This is the reason why I'll never be a millionaire. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

A little more than a year ago, I would've qualified for WIC, and asked what people thought on here. I ultimately decided not to, for the same reasoning that you used above. I can get by relatively comfortably, and other people need it more. This is the reason why I'll never be a millionaire. :lol

So when you get transferred to bumfuck New Mexico will you still call it living comfortably?...:p:

[LnGrrrR]

Drachen, I think there's a big difference between taking social security/welfare/WIC/etc etc and tax deductions/tax breaks. Tax deductions are usually to promote a certain activity, so I wouldn't consider that a bad thing at all to take. But there's a limited budget for welfare/WIC/etc etc, and the more you take, the less there is for someone who actually needs it. On top of that, the more people who DON'T need it that take the money, means it makes it that much easier for those opposed to the program to point to these people and try to cut it. If you think welfare is an important program, then you should use it (or not use it) responsibly.

[Drachen]

A little more than a year ago, I would've qualified for WIC, and asked what people thought on here. I ultimately decided not to, for the same reasoning that you used above. I can get by relatively comfortably, and other people need it more. This is the reason why I'll never be a millionaire. :lol

What about the government handout that you get in your bank account ever month you bastard!

[Drachen]

A little more than a year ago, I would've qualified for WIC, and asked what people thought on here. I ultimately decided not to, for the same reasoning that you used above. I can get by relatively comfortably, and other people need it more. This is the reason why I'll never be a millionaire. :lol

What about the government handout that you get in your bank account ever month you bastard!

[SnakeBoy]

*crickets*

jealous lying little bitch probably still lives with his mommy.

Already answered that question. Your the one throwing the temper tantrum over the topic...maybe you need to get laid.

[LnGrrrR]

So when you get transferred to bumfuck New Mexico will you still call it living comfortably?...:p:

I'm hopefully going to get out of that... keep your fingers crossed. (Of course, it's only because the nearest place to Clovis that they can do my son's surgery is a 3 1/2 hr trip...)
I'm hoping they'll reassign me to the East Coast, but I'll probably get Minot. :lol

[LnGrrrR]

What about the government handout that you get in your bank account ever month you bastard!

Did I ever mention I'd like to thank all the posters of ST for paying my salary?

Remember, I'm DEFENDING YOUR FREEDOM! (tm)

[clambake]

Did I ever mention I'd like to thank all the posters of ST for paying my salary?

Remember, I'm DEFENDING YOUR FREEDOM! (tm)

freedom ain't free!

[CosmicCowboy]

Already answered that question. Your the one throwing the temper tantrum over the topic...maybe you need to get laid.

No you didn't and it's not anger, it total disdain for a lying, ankle biting piece of shit.

[Drachen]

freedom ain't free!

Yeah, but it's only supposed to cost a buck o' five

[Th'Pusher]

Government transfer programs and tax expenditures are the same in that they both contribute to the national debt. I must say I do find it a bit hypocritical to complain about the national debt then turn around and brag about how little you paid in taxes.

[CosmicCowboy]

Government transfer programs and tax expenditures are the same in that they both contribute to the national debt. I must say I do find it a bit hypocritical to complain about the national debt then turn around and brag about how little you paid in taxes.

So do you voluntarily pay more taxes than you owe?

[baseline bum]

I'm hopefully going to get out of that... keep your fingers crossed. (Of course, it's only because the nearest place to Clovis that they can do my son's surgery is a 3 1/2 hr trip...)
I'm hoping they'll reassign me to the East Coast, but I'll probably get Minot. :lol

Did you fuck your C.O.'s daughter or something? Shit, you're getting some horrible assignments.

[SnakeBoy]

No you didn't and it's not anger, it total disdain for a lying, ankle biting piece of shit.

LOL I just said how I thought the tax code should be and you jumped in with the ankle biting. Insults most people stop using when their 12, beating your chest cause you've owned some cars fucked some girls and been to exotic colorado, and then calling me a teenager. Hilarious meltdown from you.

[Th'Pusher]

So do you voluntarily pay more taxes than you owe?
No, but I also don't buy shit that's tax subsidized or give to charity for the sole purpose of tax avoidance.

[SnakeBoy]

Someday I'm gonna get enough money to go all the way to Colorado

:lol

[baseline bum]

Someday I'm gonna get enough money to go all the way to Colorado

:lol

Take pics, man!

[baseline bum]

Government transfer programs and tax expenditures are the same in that they both contribute to the national debt. I must say I do find it a bit hypocritical to complain about the national debt then turn around and brag about how little you paid in taxes.

I don't see a problem with it personally, since it's a prisoner's dilemma type situation where no matter what anyone else does, you're better off taking every legal tax break or subsidy you can. If the government wanted to give me a free Escalade I'd take it in a second even though it would be a monumentally stupid program.

[clambake]

own your own business, you can write off all kinds of things.

i'm just waiting to get an oil co. subsidy so i can write off brand new equipment and the salaries of the employees to run them.

[SnakeBoy]

If the government wanted to give me a free Escalade I'd take it in a second even though it would be a monumentally stupid program.

And then start a thread bitching about all the loser takers in this country?

[Th'Pusher]

I don't see a problem with it personally, since it's a prisoner's dilemma type situation where no matter what anyone else does, you're better off taking every legal tax break or subsidy you can. If the government wanted to give me a free Escalade I'd take it in a second even though it would be a monumentally stupid program.

I agree with that and I do take every exemption available. I guess it is the extent to which it is employed. CC seems pretty aggressive in his tax avoidance, then whines about $16T debt. Meh, not that big of a deal. You got makers and takers. Cc is a taker :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Someday I'm gonna get enough money to go all the way to Colorado

:lol

Another reading comprehension fail. Owning a 3/2/2 second home in a 5 star ski resort is a little more than "going to Colorado" but hey, I'm sure your bedroom in your mommas house is the shiznit.

[SnakeBoy]

Another reading comprehension fail. Owning a 3/2/2 second home in a 5 star ski resort is a little more than "going to Colorado" but hey, I'm sure your bedroom in your mommas house is the shiznit.

Beat that chest boy!

A 3/2/2 WOW! 2 people can take a shit at the same time Amazing!

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree with that and I do take every exemption available. I guess it is the extent to which it is employed. CC seems pretty aggressive in his tax avoidance, then whines about $16T debt. Meh, not that big of a deal. You got makers and takers. Cc is a taker :lol

Huh? I'm really not that aggressive and in fact am very conservative on my taxes. The fact that the government offered tax credits on electric vehicles (to convince people to drive electric vehicles when it was feasible instead of gas burning vehicles) and offered tax credits on installing solar panels on your home (which makes the investment financially feasible) to keep power plants from having to produce that energy with fossil fuels was their decision, not mine. I seriously don't understand why you guys consider me to be a bad guy for the fact that I took advantage of the programs (thus reducing my carbon footprint).

[CosmicCowboy]

Beat that chest boy!

A 3/2/2 WOW! 2 people can take a shit at the same time Amazing!

I wasn't beating the chest I was pointing out what an idiotic reading comprehension fail it was to call that "a trip to Colorado". BTW, I sold it when the kids were grown.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, I let all my employees off early and am about to lock the office door so I'll check you guys and ankle biter SB later.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't see a problem with it personally, since it's a prisoner's dilemma type situation where no matter what anyone else does, you're better off taking every legal tax break or subsidy you can. If the government wanted to give me a free Escalade I'd take it in a second even though it would be a monumentally stupid program.
This.

"Aggressive tax avoidance" is fine and legal as long as it's not becoming tax evasion. Criticizing someone for taking every single tax break available to his/herself is about as stupid as it gets. As CC said, don't hate the player, hate the game. Write your congressman about the tax breaks he/she enabled CC to get if they upset you so much.

[SnakeBoy]

I seriously don't understand why you guys consider me to be a bad guy for the fact that I took advantage of the programs (thus reducing my carbon footprint).

:lol And how many times have you bitched about that.

Hey can you tell the internets what it's like to fuck a girl? The rest of us can only dream of being like you.

http://pjbottoms.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/mountain_20gorilla_20beating_20chest_small.jpg

[baseline bum]

And then start a thread bitching about all the loser takers in this country?

I'd still log on and bitch about how stupid the free Escalade was, just like I did after we all got our $300-$1200 Bush-welfare checks in 2008.

[SnakeBoy]

(thus reducing my carbon footprint).

He did it to stop global warming :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Warren Buffet regularly scoffs and talks shit about how much of a joke the miniscule amount of taxes he pays every year is while he also continues to take them and pay as little in taxes as he can. Doesn't make him a hypocrite/whiner/etc. at all though.

[Th'Pusher]

I have no issue with taking the tax breaks, just don't turn around and whine about the debt those tax breaks result in.

[LnGrrrR]

Did you fuck your C.O.'s daughter or something? Shit, you're getting some horrible assignments.

I think the people that do orders see that I'm leaving Hawaii, and they're like, "Oh, he already had a good base for 3 years, let's find a crap one..." That said, I'm still hoping I get a semi-decent base next to some civilization.

[LnGrrrR]

Warren Buffet regularly scoffs and talks shit about how much of a joke the miniscule amount of taxes he pays every year is while he also continues to take them and pay as little in taxes as he can. Doesn't make him a hypocrite/whiner/etc. at all though.

I agree with this. The amount that would go into the coffers from him going from, say, 15 to 30% is negligible... however, the amount that would go in if EVERYONE making as much as him jumped from 15 to 30% would be appreciable. (And yes, I just used random numbers up there.)

[baseline bum]

I think the people that do orders see that I'm leaving Hawaii, and they're like, "Oh, he already had a good base for 3 years, let's find a crap one..." That said, I'm still hoping I get a semi-decent base next to some civilization.

Maybe they stick you working at Guantanamo if you keep trying to get out of Clovis, though Guantanamo would probably be better tbh.

[LnGrrrR]

Maybe they stick you working at Guantanamo if you keep trying to get out of Clovis, though Guantanamo would probably be better tbh.

I've actually been to GTMO (2002)... it's not that bad, really. You know, assuming you're working there and not imprisoned there. :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Maybe they stick you working at Guantanamo if you keep trying to get out of Clovis, though Guantanamo would probably be better tbh.

:lol

[baseline bum]

I've actually been to GTMO (2002)... it's not that bad, really. You know, assuming you're working there and not imprisoned there. :lol

Get any pyramid pics?

[LnGrrrR]

Get any pyramid pics?

No, I was there before the Iraq War even started, when it was mostly Taliban detainees. I helped set up network devices in the (new at the time) Camp Alpha and Delta. Cuba is frigging beautiful. When I grew up in Mass, I used to see all those "travel to Hawaii/Cuba/Jamaica" etc ads, and thinking, "No way that water is that clear/green." I was shocked as hell when I saw that water actually could look like that. :lol

[russellgoat]

Some argue that we need to. Look at Japan, which they're top heavy with elderly. if the birth rate keeps dropping, and people keep living longer... well, those two don't add up to a rosy scenario.

More immigration can solve that problem...

[Nbadan]

50% of the kids in US live in poverty...most do not know where their next meal will come from day to day...yet wing-nuts want to have the family pay a regressive flat tax so that everyone has a 'skin in the game'....stupid....not only should we continue the child tax credit we should increase it....increase it by the child's performance in school....every A in a required subject the student's family gets an additional 5% that month....be creative!

[Nbadan]

Source: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121120/POLITI


Lansing — The House Tax Policy Committee heard testimony Tuesday on a bill that would grant "personhood" status to fetuses, allowing expectant parents to qualify for a tax exemption.

Parents would be able to claim a dependency exemption for a fetus that has completed at least 12 weeks of gestation as of the last day of the tax year and that has been under the care and observation of a physician since at least 12 weeks of gestation. The period of gestation would have to be determined by a physician.

The two-bill package introduced by Republican Reps. Lisa Lyons of Alto and Jud Gilbert of Algonac, would cost Michigan about $5 million annually in revenue, according to a House Fiscal Agency Analysis.


In AZ they're pregnant two weeks before they're pregnant.
The personal exemption is $3,950 for the 2013 tax year and $4,000 for the 2014 tax year and subsequent years.

[Wild Cobra]

50% of the kids in US live in poverty...most do not know where their next meal will come from day to day...
Why are their parents selling their food stamp cards?

[TeyshaBlue]

50% of the kids in US live in poverty...most do not know where their next meal will come from day to day...yet wing-nuts want to have the family pay a regressive flat tax so that everyone has a 'skin in the game'....stupid....not only should we continue the child tax credit we should increase it....increase it by the child's performance in school....every A in a required subject the student's family gets an additional 5% that month....be creative!

50%? Hardly.