Has Danny Green improved at all?..

[Malik Hairston]

I've always been called a Danny Green hater, I'll admit that from the start, tbh, my opinion is slightly biased..

However, has he displayed any improvement from last year?..

He's still useless from anywhere inside the 3-point line..he has virtually no ability to create his own shot..his pull-up J is non-existent..he often blows chances at the rim..

At this point, he's just a spot-up shooter that plays above average defense against certain types of players..he's also fresh off a choke job against OKC, I assumed he would have had a chip on his shoulder during the Summer..

It is quite disappointing that the Spurs' supporting cast has not shown any improvement from last season..their improvements should have negated any decline from the big 3, at the very least, tbh..instead, Leonard has regressed, and Green is the same flawed player..

[timvp]

Pretty harsh, tbh.

First off, Leonard hasn't regressed. It's possible to say he hasn't lived up to the high hopes of some Spurs fans ... but before he got hurt there's no way to say he was a worse player than last year.

As for Green, he's gotten a lot better at finishing at the rim. Last year, he was a disaster in the paint. This year, he's still below average finishing but he's creeping up into the acceptable range.

He's shown some slight improvements in areas -- mostly to do with patience and understanding the game. To be worth his contract and to be worthy of a starting spot, he had to get back to how he ended last year in the regular season. I think he's done that. It'd be great if he could take another big step forward but I just don't think he's that type of player. He can fit in a system and he can become really good in his niche ... but I don't think he's capable of becoming much more than he is.

All that said, the shooting guard position is extremely weak in the NBA these days. Even though Green is a role player and 99.99% chance always will be a role player, a case can be made that he's an above average starting shooting guard. To have pulled that off the scrap heap and then re-sign him to a reasonable deal was a great job by the FO and coaching staff.

[crc21209]

I think he's improved. Last year he was mainly a 3 point shooter who couldn't put the ball on the floor or finish at the rim much. Now he's a more polished overall offensive player. He's also a decent defender for his position. He's also moving without the ball, getting back door cuts, etc. this year that he didnt show very much last season...

[Splits]

Green is not the most gifted athlete and he's never going to make an all-star team, but he never takes a play off and always finishes the play. He makes mistakes like other young players and has room for improvement, but it is tough to expect that much more growth from him than we've seen in, like, 11 months.

[TDMVPDPOY]

danny green has improved alot especially creating for himself running off from the screen for a sweet jumper...rip hamilton style...

[Sean Cagney]

Leonard regressed already? Are you serious? Give him this year atleast to say that. Danny has improved some too IMO, time will tell though atleast give it half a year till you say this. This is what 11 games into year year? Relax.

[Richie]

Your expectations are way, way too high. If you're expecting role players like Green and Neal to pick up the slack for ageing Hall of Famers then you will always be disappointed. There's a reason these guys bounced around the D-League and Europe, they're decent players but don't ask too much of them.

This team will only go as far as Tim, Tony and Manu takes them, don't blame the role players for not having superstar games when one of the big 3 doesn't show up.

[G-Dawgg]

Danny Green is still a scrub.. How is he even in our starting lineup?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Green has improved - he looks more competent and confident all over the court to me. He's a fine 6-8th player, and we obviously only start him because Manu fits better from the bench.

Why people expect guys like Green to be superstars is beyond me - he's a ROLE PLAYER, and he plays his role very well a lot of the time.

[therealtruth]

All they really need from Green is defense and not to be useless on offense.

[BatManu20]

He's never going to be anything more than a 3 pint shooter. That's just what he is. anytime he puts the bal on the floor he just looks uncomfortable. And his defense leaves a lot to be desired. But, he'll knock down big 3's when we need them (minus the WCF) and furthermore, what do you suggest we do, get rid of him? He's our best bet at the position so what's your point.

[TD 21]

I don't know why you don't like Green. Prototypical 3D role player. Every team needs them, especially the good ones.

I think he's made some incremental improvements, but despite being young, he basically is what he's going to be and was last season. I'm not sure why you'd have expected anything different from him. He's never going to be a dynamic creator or finisher.

He's easily worth his contract though and frankly has received too much criticism for his atrocious shooting in the WCF. He was on an incredible role shooting the ball and at some point he was going to cool off. Keep in mind, it was his first time in the playoffs and he performed well through two rounds, so it's way too soon to draw any conclusions about whether he can perform under pressure or not.

[Chinook]

If by role player, one means someone who can be a reliable starter, play big minutes and be an integral part of a team's success, but who can't be relied on to carry a team, then yes, Green is always going to be a role player. But if one means a player who sits on the bench and whose only job is to eat up minutes and not fail while the starter is on the bench, I think calling Green a role player is selling him short. If Ginobili were to retire after this season, I for one do not believe that the Spurs need to find a starter-caliber shooting guard and move Green to the bench. He plays his role well, and when he's on, he often looks like one of the best shooting guards the Spurs have had besides Ginobili over the last decade.

Green may never develop a wider offensive repertoire, but if he can improve his consistency he can become an impact player on both sides of the floor. As timvp pointed out last year, Green was possibly the most impactful team defender on the roster. He also played good man defense at times (like on Paul in game 4 vs the Clippers), and he has the skill to improve even more in that area. As he matures, I believe he learn to pick his spots on defense, his shot selection will improve, and he will become a better finisher and cutter with more patience. In other words, I believe Green can eventually learn to do the things he's already good at even more efficiently than he is doing them right now. If that happens, he'll be one of the better shooting guards in the league.

[Spurs da champs]

Why people expect guys like Green to be superstars is beyond me - he's a ROLE PLAYER, and he plays his role very well a lot of the time.

Asking him to make open layups & make pull up jumpers is asking him to be a superstar? :lol

Dude is overrated big time, especially his defense!

[rascal]

Green is a role player and not any type of difference maker. Don't expect anything special from him in the playoffs when the stars step up.

[rascal]

But if one means a player who sits on the bench and whose only job is to eat up minutes and not fail while the starter is on the bench, I think calling Green a role player is selling him short.


This sums up what Green is. He will hit some shots and have some good games during the regular season like most role players.

[Chinook]

This sums up what Green is. He will hit some shots and have some good games during the regular season like most role players.

Those types of role players are not defensive difference makers. It's easy to look at Green after a bad game and think he's easily replaceable, but he was as big of a part of that 20-game winning streak last year as anybody. He's not going to be a star, but there's no reason why he can't become more consistent at what he already does well. Averaging almost 14 points per 36 is more than respectable, seeing as that's not his role on this team. He's top-15 in all defensive categories, and he showed last year that he can be even better than he is this year. I'm very happy with Green, all things considered. With good coaching, he'll be the starting shooting guard for at least the next three years.

[DesignatedT]

Leonard has some difficulties shooting the long ball in 8 games and "he's regressed" :lmao

In the short sample size of this season, Leonard has improved in every single category IMO. So he started off the season shooting 35% from three instead of last years 38%. He will get that number up. His defense has been spectacular this season IMO.

[KaiRMD1]

I'm more surprised at the notion that Leonard has regressed

[ata]

Green is pretty solid, as he was last regular season. Of course he can improve, however big improvement from him is expected in PO

[Sean Cagney]

Leonard has some difficulties shooting the long ball in 8 games and "he's regressed" :lmao

In the short sample size of this season, Leonard has improved in every single category IMO. So he started off the season shooting 35% from three instead of last years 38%. He will get that number up. His defense has been spectacular this season IMO.

I agree, Spurs fans are such knee jerk reaction types it's rediculous. LOL 8 games and he is regressing.

[ChuckD]

danny green has improved alot especially creating for himself running off from the screen for a sweet jumper...rip hamilton style...

This. I don't know what games the OP is watching but Green is noticeably better on O this year. As stated above they have him running screen and roll to score inside the arc, which he NEVER did before, and his three point range has increased as well. He was one of the Spurs who shot almost on the line, making it easier for defenders who dig down in the post to recover. Now he's letting go from Bonner/Jack land.

[ChuckD]

Leonard has some difficulties shooting the long ball in 8 games and "he's regressed" :lmao

In the short sample size of this season, Leonard has improved in every single category IMO. So he started off the season shooting 35% from three instead of last years 38%. He will get that number up. His defense has been spectacular this season IMO.
Not to mention that Kawhi shot high20s low30s for a month or more last year before he clicked.

[elemento]

Leonard has some difficulties shooting the long ball in 8 games and "he's regressed" :lmao

In the short sample size of this season, Leonard has improved in every single category IMO. So he started off the season shooting 35% from three instead of last years 38%. He will get that number up. His defense has been spectacular this season IMO.

This

Not to mention his FT shooting. From 77% last season to 94% this season. Just shows how Leonard works very hard and how bad he wants to improve his game.

[FkLA]

Green has actually looked decent on midrange pull-ups when the defense runs him off the 3 point line. Finishing on drives will always be a weakness of his though, that little two handed runner he throws up looks so awkward...still a bargain at 3 yrs/11.3 mill though imo.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

His ball handling is better even if not exceptionally good.
His finishing on drives and under the basket has improved.
His knowledge and thus anticipation on defense has improved.
His intermediate jumpshot has improved.
He has more spots around the arc that he can hit the three at. Ie other than the wing and the corner.

[Ghjkll]

Danny Green is fine, and he is asked to be a roleplayer. Play good D and knock the open 3 when needed. Manu is the one we should be worried about, since he is playing way worse than Green.

[maverick1948]

Your expectations are way, way too high. If you're expecting role players like Green and Neal to pick up the slack for ageing Hall of Famers then you will always be disappointed. There's a reason these guys bounced around the D-League and Europe, they're decent players but don't ask too much of them.

This team will only go as far as Tim, Tony and Manu takes them, don't blame the role players for not having superstar games when one of the big 3 doesn't show up.

You are a little off for the Spurs. We go as far as our role players take us. Take a look at each game we have played this year

Game 1 Kawhi stepped up for Manu(out) filled out his scoring.
Game 2 SJax and Green stepped up
Game 3 Green 21 pts
Game 4 Bench 57 pts
Game 5 Entire team failed to show (loss)
Game 6 Mills 8-9 18 pts
Game 7 Neal 27 pts
Game 8 Green 11-5 and 3 steals
Game 9 Leonard, Splitter and Sjax 39 pts 20 reb
Game 10 Blair 19-8-3 Green 15 Mills 10
Game 11 Bonner 10 in 4th Q Splitter 9 pts (loss)
Game 12 Green Blair and Neal 32 pts SPLITTER 23 pts.

Looking back on the 1st 12 games, we have a role player or 2 or 3 or even 4 who step up in every game. When our "big three" show up and our "role" players get in the flow, we win.

The Spurs go as far as the role players take us. The Big Three are a match for any team, but it is our role players who carry us to wins.

[therealtruth]

This. I don't know what games the OP is watching but Green is noticeably better on O this year. As stated above they have him running screen and roll to score inside the arc, which he NEVER did before, and his three point range has increased as well. He was one of the Spurs who shot almost on the line, making it easier for defenders who dig down in the post to recover. Now he's letting go from Bonner/Jack land.

Good points. Pop has finally realized our role players are too easy to gameplan against in the playoffs and he now has them doing more stuff to keep the defense off balance. This is really going to benefit us in the playoffs. Our role players have to be able to score without relying just on open 3's which happen less in the deep rounds of the playoffs.

[LkrFan]

Finley (http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/8664213/michael-finley-former-nba-all-star-attempting-comeback-player-sources-say) is available. :lol

[Kidd K]

Green is vastly improved offensively. He's now able to consistently hit open shots, and seems to have a quicker catch and release motion as well.

The problems Green can run in to are that he gets excited when he makes a few shots, then starts trying to put up turn around shots, off balance shots, or shots off the dribble instead of stick to catch and shoot balls after coming off screens or on kick outs. Everything else is commendable for Green considering he was a reserve player type guy before us.

As far as Leonard goes. . .the only thing that's really regressed on him is his shot. Though that could just be early-season jitters. His defense has improved to reliable status, and his rebounding is more impressive. Just needs to get in more reps from 3, and get more consistent out there.

[spurs1990]

31 straight games with a 3 fwiw. Longest current streak in league.

[Russo21]

maverick1948 i like your post above ^^^

Interestingly enough, and rightfully so, Boris Diaw's name wasn't mentioned. That guy has been invisible at times, not shooting or attacking and generally playing like a friggen pansy out there.

Boris has been my major disappointment from early in the season. He is too talented and versatile to play like an invisible man. For the year he has averaged 3 FG attempts per game, just 3, the lowest of his career.

I mean cmon, he's shooting 59% from the field, 38% from 3. Shoot more and attack you fat pussy. He is way too talented to play invisible basketball and shoot 3 times a game.

Green is averaging more in every category this year then he did last, while shooting slightly less %. He's not doing to bad and playing his role well.

Somebody has to light a fire up Diaw's ass.

[jdiggy0424]

The only fire that would light Boris Diaw's ass would have to have a twinkie attached to it.

[z0sa]

Danny Green looks worse in most respects than last season, but somehow is more clutch.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if u dont think danny green has improve, then i dunno what u are watchin out there....

[Gagnrath]

Danny is a role player, He's not an all star, that said he's not a slouch either, he's borderline starter quality at shooting guard in what is effectively his second year in the NBA. I would really have liked to have had him a few years ago, so that he could effectively grow for a year or two behind or alternating with Manu, its tougher with him getting time and responsibility due to Manu failing physically.

[Malik Hairston]

- Leonard has clearly regressed with an increased role..his PER is down by an entire point, he has been considerably less valuable than last year(statistically), his turnovers and offensive fouls have increased dramatically at this rate, and his outside shooting has slightly worsened..

He's one of my favorite players on the team and I have high hopes for him, though..

- As for Danny Green, Spurs fans are still delusional about him, similar to last year..statistically, he's virtually the same player as last year, actually worse tbh, his advanced numbers have slightly decreased..

He still can't dribble and he has absolutely no ability to create his own shot..in fact, he's creating even less than last year, by a large margin, despite already being near the bottom of the list of starters in the NBA..an astonishing number is that 94% of Danny Green's points are assisted, one of the highest numbers I've ever seen for a guard, tbh..

The Spurs system demands open shots from Green, but he has plenty of chances to score on his own, there's a reason he is unable to produce in those situations..once teams force Green to pass up a shot, he is rendered useless to the offense..

I like him for his contract and I believe he's a solid 7th man, but I don't believe in him at the moment, especially after last year's choke job..

[Strategic]

I think Green has improved by default, but whether it's true or not, he will continue to be a lifetime role player. As long as he is willing to take what the Spurs offer him as soon as they put something on the table you are stuck with him filling the two guard minutes that MG cannot fill. I thought his lack of physicality was a bigger contributor to the Spurs exit last year than what his lack of offensive production was.

[slick'81]

hes improved in the wallet for sure

[Keepin' it real]

I've always been called a Danny Green hater, I'll admit that from the start, tbh, my opinion is slightly biased..

However, has he displayed any improvement from last year?..


No. Besides, for Green, the only way to show improvement is to come through in the WCF and beyond...if the Spurs can get that far. If he doesn't, then he goes down as the player who put the final nail in the coffin for the Duncan era title runs.

[TDfan2007]

- Leonard has clearly regressed with an increased role..his PER is down by an entire point, he has been considerably less valuable than last year(statistically), his turnovers and offensive fouls have increased dramatically at this rate, and his outside shooting has slightly worsened..

He's one of my favorite players on the team and I have high hopes for him, though..

- As for Danny Green, Spurs fans are still delusional about him, similar to last year..statistically, he's virtually the same player as last year, actually worse tbh, his advanced numbers have slightly decreased..

He still can't dribble and he has absolutely no ability to create his own shot..in fact, he's creating even less than last year, by a large margin, despite already being near the bottom of the list of starters in the NBA..an astonishing number is that 94% of Danny Green's points are assisted, one of the highest numbers I've ever seen for a guard, tbh..

The Spurs system demands open shots from Green, but he has plenty of chances to score on his own, there's a reason he is unable to produce in those situations..once teams force Green to pass up a shot, he is rendered useless to the offense..

I like him for his contract and I believe he's a solid 7th man, but I don't believe in him at the moment, especially after last year's choke job..

:tu x 10000

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Malik Hairston]

I realize he's streaky and his jump shot will probably get hot soon, but he has been even worse since this thread was created, tbh..

[timtonymanu]

Green is hurt apparently.

[shorttotry]

+1

[Malik Hairston]

I realize he's streaky and his jump shot will probably get hot soon, but he has been even worse since this thread was created, tbh..

[TDMVPDPOY]

he needs to learn how to make love to pressure...fkn shit

[Brunodf]

Regressed

[superjames1992]

He's a pretty good spot-up jumpshooter. I don't know why people expected anything more. He is what he is and he is pretty good in his niche role.

[Obstructed_View]

He's a good player as long as he's nowhere near the offense on a fast break. I would have said "nowhere near the BALL on a fast break, but he found a new way to fuck it up without touching the ball.

[timvp]

He's a good player as long as he's nowhere near the offense on a fast break. I would have said "nowhere near the BALL on a fast break, but he found a new way to fuck it up without touching the ball.

That post made me LOL.

As far as this thread is concerned, as long as Green shots ~40% on three-pointers, he's a useful player on a reasonable contract. I'm not sure what is so mysterious about that which causes this thread to be bumped repeatedly. Yeah, he has holes in his game and won't ever improve much, but that's why he's signed at the price of a 8th or 9th man.

[polandprzem]

Maybe there is too much pressure on him now when both SF's are not able to play.

Bowen as well had troubles with dribbling and creating his shot and was bad as you can be in drives. But he was a gr8 player.

[Hoops Czar]

He should be coming off the bench.

[Obstructed_View]

He fits in well with the starting unit, especially when the small forwards are healthy, and Manu can run the offense without a legitimate backup. He plays good defense, he shoots well, he's never lazy, and he's not prone to mistakes for the most part. Some of you guys need to think about Keith Bogans and Richard Jefferson and realize he's the bargain of the century.

[Malik Hairston]

That post made me LOL.

As far as this thread is concerned, as long as Green shots ~40% on three-pointers, he's a useful player on a reasonable contract. I'm not sure what is so mysterious about that which causes this thread to be bumped repeatedly. Yeah, he has holes in his game and won't ever improve much, but that's why he's signed at the price of a 8th or 9th man.

He's a starter that Pop trusts in key situations..ideally, he would be an 8th or 9th man on a good team, but on this Spurs team, he's a starter that Pop wants to groom as a key player down the stretch..

The reason this thread has been continuously bumped is because I don't want to make multiple Danny Green threads, tbh, especially now that others have begun to notice(there will be an abundance of Green threads)..

[weebo]

The human toad needs to be benched. End of story.

[DAF86]

Manu needs to start and Green needs to come off the bench. He's just too one-dimensional to be getting starters minutes.

Tony, Manu, Leonard, Duncan and Tiago for the last playoffs' run, imho.

[Texas_Ranger]

what did you expect from him. He's OK for shooting wide open threes and that's pretty much it. Sometimes he makes them, sometimes he doesn't. In playoffs I bet he won't be that good at it, but that's also why I see him as around 9th option on this team. He can't finish layups and he also can't dribble. Some of you praise his defense, but to me it looks just solid, nothing special. The guy is a role player, so just live with his good or bad games.

[HI-FI]

sadly, this is a very prescient thread tbh..

[Seventyniner]

That post made me LOL.

As far as this thread is concerned, as long as Green shots ~40% on three-pointers, he's a useful player on a reasonable contract. I'm not sure what is so mysterious about that which causes this thread to be bumped repeatedly. Yeah, he has holes in his game and won't ever improve much, but that's why he's signed at the price of a 8th or 9th man.

How many teams have their 8th or 9th man in the starting lineup? I'm starting to think that Green is expendable. He's the 8th-best player on the team imo, behind Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Splitter, Leonard, Jackson, and Diaw. Given that a classic 8-man playoff rotation features 3 bigs, 3 wings, and 2 PGs, Green is the odd man out because he's the 4th-best wing. The Spurs don't have a backup PG with more talent than Green, though, so the roster remains unbalanced.

[therealtruth]

Manu needs to start and Green needs to come off the bench. He's just too one-dimensional to be getting starters minutes.

Tony, Manu, Leonard, Duncan and Tiago for the last playoffs' run, imho.

I agree. Manu will improve the offense and make everyone work less. Plus the defensive attention everyone else draws should make the game easier for him to get going. De Colo can fill the Manu role of the bench. The starting lineup needs to have some proven winners. There's no point in waiting to see if Green drops the ball in the playoffs.

[DrSteffo]

How many teams have their 8th or 9th man in the starting lineup? I'm starting to think that Green is expendable. He's the 8th-best player on the team imo, behind Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Splitter, Leonard, Jackson, and Diaw. Given that a classic 8-man playoff rotation features 3 bigs, 3 wings, and 2 PGs, Green is the odd man out because he's the 4th-best wing. The Spurs don't have a backup PG with more talent than Green, though, so the roster remains unbalanced.

I basically agree with this post but how many teams have Manu Ginobili leading the second unit? Compared to the likes of Bogans and Roger Mason Jr Green is ok. On the Spurs you certainly dont have to be among the five best players to start. Also we have been without a real SF until SJax came back so we have had a very unbalanced team for a while.

[will_spurs]

The guy is a role player, so just live with his good or bad games.

Only in Spursland do role players get starting jobs and 25+ mpg and that is the issue. We'd be fine if he was actually utilized as the role player he is. But when he is cast into a starter role, things start to go wrong. Of course this is nothing new to Spurs fan as it happened many time before (exhibit A: Bonner, Mason, etc.).

[therealtruth]

The only reason for Green to start over Manu would be for his defense but if he can't consistently defend then it's harder to defend him starting. Maybe his defense gets better when Kawhi gets back. At the same time I don't like the idea of going into the playoffs with unproven players starting.

[DrSteffo]

The main reason for Manu not to start is that he makes players such as Neal and other bench players so much better. Basically it provides balance between the first and second unit. I wouldn't mind if Manu starts but there are also perfectly rational reasons for him not to start but still play many minutes.

[Fireball]

I think with DeColos capabilities we could really put Manu back in the starting lineup, because Nando is at least partially able to replicate Manus abilities in the second unit. Green, Neal and Mills should play more if they make their shots ...