What happened to giving Tim/Manu second legs of back2backs off ?

[FkLA]

Not only that but Timmy is playing over 30 mpg. There really seems to be no attempt to conserve our older players. Not sure it makes much of a difference but why is Pop approaching minute management so much different than last season? Yall worried about the tires falling off in the playoffs ?

[DAF86]

Playing guys big minutes during games helps improve endurance for the playoffs when they'll need to play that many minutes.

To rest them is beter to give them a game off every now and then but not getting them used to play just 20/25 minute per game.

But that's just my opinion.

[DAF86]

And I know that what I said doesn't have much to do with the OP but I wanted to get that off my chest, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What does the end of the shortened season entail, Alex?

[Fabbs]

Yall worried about the tires falling off in the playoffs ?
This team is built to succeed in the regular season. :pop:

The playoffs is where Pop will really succede. ;)

[diego]

Playing guys big minutes during games helps improve endurance for the playoffs when they'll need to play that many minutes.

To rest them is beter to give them a game off every now and then but not getting them used to play just 20/25 minute per game.

But that's just my opinion.

finally, something I agree 100% with DAF86.

as for the OP, its probably too early to say that Pop has changed his philosophy on this but its something to keep an eye on.

[timvp]

Manu is playing 23.8 minutes per game yet CoM thinks he's playing too much and needs games off? :lol

[DAF86]

Manu is playing 23.8 minutes per game yet CoM thinks he's playing too much and needs games off? :lol

I would like to hear your opinion on my "bulding endurance" theory, tbh.

[Seventyniner]

Playing guys big minutes during games helps improve endurance for the playoffs when they'll need to play that many minutes.

To rest them is beter to give them a game off every now and then but not getting them used to play just 20/25 minute per game.

But that's just my opinion.

Interesting idea. I wonder if having Manu or Tim play 36 mpg but taking every third game off would help endurance while keeping total minutes to an acceptable level.

[TDomination]

The game against Toronto was an early game, i think that was the biggest reason that they still played against Washington.

[Splits]

This only occurred during last year's shortened season and even then it was a rare occurrence (usually during our b2b2b stretches). The Spurs were essentially the only team doing this early in the season. Not that it matters, but the league is not a fan of teams resting non-injured players and that may influence these decisions.

[Obstructed_View]

If Timmy's knee isn't a factor, which it doesn't seem to be since he's dropped his weight, then the concept of saving minutes for the next game is much like the concept of saving fouls for the next game. As DAF said, keeping minutes down hasn't exactly reaped benefits in the playoffs.

[UZER]

Resting your key players during the season is stupid. Its a good move in theory but it prevents players from hiding that stride. Phil never rested MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq. He rode theses horses like the horses they were. And he played them big minutes.

I think the reason our guys keep getting hurt with nagging is injuries is due to too much inconsistency with their minutes and games played. Its classic "Im smarter than you" Pop.

If someone is actually injured, then thats a different animal. But if not, then only rest them a game or two at the most before the playoffs to recharge the batteries...that's it.

[silverblk mystix]

If you want to be a tough team - you have to practice and play as hard as you can. If it is meant to be you will be the last team standing-partly because you were also the toughest team out of all the teams.


If you want to have a soft team that gets man-handled and eliminated in the playoffs - then, by all means, start making excuses now and start "conserving" all your prima donnas. This "soft" attitude will keep your players soft and when they face a tough "no excuses" team - they will get embarrassed again. Everyone will blame everything and everyone else for the reason that you got man-handled.

[justinandimcool]

no B2B2B this year

in normal years the important guys would sit only 2-3 times a year. they'll sit in March/April, there are a three tough B2B's in those months.

[ChumpDumper]

People are actually wondering why?

[Fabbs]

Am i really asking a question?

[Bruno]

Bitching about Ginobili playing too much while he is averaging 23.8mpg is a complete nonsense.

For Duncan, you can make a case that his minutes should be more around 28mpg than his current 30.9mpg. At the same time, he isn't easy to limit minutes of a MVP level player.
With a PER of 27.3, Duncan is second in the league at the PER ranking only behind LeBron but with 30.9mpg, Duncan is 81st in the mpg list.

[therealtruth]

I read an analysis of past champions and I'm pretty sure there is no significant benefit of going below 30mpg. Last time we won in '07 Duncan was at 34 mpg.

[diego]

Manu is playing 23.8 minutes per game yet CoM thinks he's playing too much and needs games off? :lol

huh? the OP was talking about limiting minutes, but most of the replies are saying its better to play more minutes and build stamina. if rest is an issue, better to take a whole game off, rather than limit minutes every game and have the players be used to 20/25 minute outings. No one is saying manu is playing too much, on the contrary we're saying he should play more minutes (and should have been playing more minutes in past years).

I remember in previous discussions you have always been a proponent of pop's extreme minute management, but IMO it doesn't work because the players cant flip the switch and just play more minutes in the PO.

It sucks to not have a younger team that can play extended minutes without fear of wear and tear, the ideal solution would be a shorter season but that obviously is not going to happen. So even if I understand why Pop is careful with manu and duncan's minutes, I'll always wonder what would have happened if he was less cautious 08, 10, 11 and 12... if it meant one more championship and the wheels falling off sooner, wouldn't everyone prefer that to consistently coming up short in the PO? Now they are so old that pop's logic makes more sense, but I don't think that was the case 2+ years ago... and I'm not sure its the right strategy now either.

[therealtruth]

huh? the OP was talking about limiting minutes, but most of the replies are saying its better to play more minutes and build stamina. if rest is an issue, better to take a whole game off, rather than limit minutes every game and have the players be used to 20/25 minute outings. No one is saying manu is playing too much, on the contrary we're saying he should play more minutes (and should have been playing more minutes in past years).

I remember in previous discussions you have always been a proponent of pop's extreme minute management, but IMO it doesn't work because the players cant flip the switch and just play more minutes in the PO.

It sucks to not have a younger team that can play extended minutes without fear of wear and tear, the ideal solution would be a shorter season but that obviously is not going to happen. So even if I understand why Pop is careful with manu and duncan's minutes, I'll always wonder what would have happened if he was less cautious 08, 10, 11 and 12... if it meant one more championship and the wheels falling off sooner, wouldn't everyone prefer that to consistently coming up short in the PO? Now they are so old that pop's logic makes more sense, but I don't think that was the case 2+ years ago... and I'm not sure its the right strategy now either.

Exactly. I would rather have them play more minutes and get possibly a #5 and #6. You can't always guarantee you will have a chance to compete for a championship and you have to use every opportunity you get. The Spurs have been spoiled by being at consistently good for so long.

[FkLA]

I am pretty sure that its more of Duncan wanting to play more minutes than it is pop wanting him to.

This was my initial thought and why I made the thread. I dont really care or mind that Pop is playing our guys normal minutes, I was just wondering if maybe TD had a talk with Pop about going all in this year or something like that.

[therealtruth]

This was my initial thought and why I made the thread. I dont really care or mind that Pop is playing our guys normal minutes, I was just wondering if maybe TD had a talk with Pop about going all in this year or something like that.

I'm sure Pop wants to sit them but I am sure TD doesn't want that. He knows it hasn't worked in the past. Pop has treated the regular season as something to just survive and get through but it's more important than that. It's about how you build your championship practices and pedigree. If you're not using the season to improve and get better you're hurting your chances of winning it all.

[Fireball]

Manu has to play even more to get in rhythm ... I am fine with Timmy right now as he not played much in the win over Washington ...

[Old School 44]

Playing guys big minutes during games helps improve endurance for the playoffs when they'll need to play that many minutes.

To rest them is beter to give them a game off every now and then but not getting them used to play just 20/25 minute per game.

But that's just my opinion.
This has always been my opinion too. The past few years in the playoffs, Duncan performance late in playoff games was more about being conditioned to play 35+ minutes versus just being old. That, and not having a defensive big beside him. Much has been made about "conserving" Duncan for the playoffs. The best way to conserve him is to get him some interior help, particularly on the defensive end.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Exactly. I would rather have them play more minutes and get possibly a #5 and #6. You can't always guarantee you will have a chance to compete for a championship and you have to use every opportunity you get. The Spurs fans have been spoiled by being at consistently good for so long.

Fixed it.

[therealtruth]

Fixed it.

I was including Pop and RC. How else can you explain their reluctance to get TD quality help in the frontcourt since '07. A washed up Dice and Splitter, who Pop refused to play initially, are all they have to show. Many teams have gone through three times or more bigs in the same period.

[spurraider21]

Last year we saw a lot more benchings because of the condensed schedule and the back to back to backs followed by back to backs, etc. I'm sure later in the season, maybe the last month or month and a half of the regular season we will see rest games. But this early in the year Pop is trying to rack up wins so we can afford to rest some later. Also, if any of the big 3 are below 95% health, Pop WILL give them the precautionary DNP. I wouldn't worry about Pop overworking our guys

[Obstructed_View]

This has always been my opinion too. The past few years in the playoffs, Duncan performance late in playoff games was more about being conditioned to play 35+ minutes versus just being old. That, and not having a defensive big beside him. Much has been made about "conserving" Duncan for the playoffs. The best way to conserve him is to get him some interior help, particularly on the defensive end.

This. Nothing wears down Tim Duncan faster than having to guard the lane all by himself.

[timvp]

huh? the OP was talking about limiting minutesMy reply was in response to the title. Suggesting Manu needs less minutes is ridiculous. He already plays less than any star player in NBA history.


No one is saying manu is playing too muchThat's exactly what the title of the thread implies.


I remember in previous discussions you have always been a proponent of pop's extreme minute managementI've been in favor of limiting Manu's minutes in order to keep him healthy for the playoffs. Playing him 28-29 MPG has always been my preference with Manu ... and historically that has worked out rather well. The two years he averaged more than 30 MPG in the regular season, he didn't last the full season.


, but IMO it doesn't work because the players cant flip the switch and just play more minutes in the PO. I've always been a proponent of upping the MPG levels late in the regular season to prepare for the playoffs. Pop doesn't do that ... but it's impossible to tell if that has had any impact.


I'll always wonder what would have happened if he was less cautious 08, 10, 11 and 12... if it meant one more championship and the wheels falling off sooner, wouldn't everyone prefer that to consistently coming up short in the PO?First of all, yes, if a championship could have been had, you take that over longevity.

However, I don't really see how a case can be made that a lack of regular season minutes lost the Spurs a championship. In 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, Manu wasn't 100% healthy in the playoffs. Over that same time period, Duncan's knee progressively got more painful and restrictive as the season progressed. Less than 100% Manu and TD for those four years is what killed any championship hopes and playing more minutes in the regular season wouldn't have helped.

In fact, a case could be made that the Spurs would have been better off if Manu and TD played even less minutes than they ended up playing before you can make a case for more.

As for last year, I don't see how regular season minutes made an impact. The difference in the series was basically the Thunder shooting amazingly on midrange jumpers. The Spurs just got straight up beat last year by a hot team.


Now they are so old that pop's logic makes more sense, but I don't think that was the case 2+ years ago... and I'm not sure its the right strategy now either.

I agree that Manu is playing too few minutes right now. He needs to get up to at least in the 27-28 MPG range. However, I believe that'll probably be where he ends up. Pop's probably just taken it easy on him due to the back issues.

As for TP, he hasn't yet showed the stamina this season top play much more than 32 MPG. A few times he has run out of gas in the fourth quarter. Hypothetically, I'd probably like him closer to 33 or 34.

Asking TD to play at an MVP level for 31 MPG is probably already asking too much over the course of 82 games. Getting him back below 30 is probably the smartest way to conserve someone at 36.