LOL my pissing match with a local hotel

[CosmicCowboy]

Had a crew do a little service call on a downtown hotel and install a pump and do a couple of other things...not a big deal...$1400 bill. Guy sends me a release of lien and says we have to sign it to get paid. I say I have to get paid to sign it. He says that's the way his bosses do it. I tell him I'm not signing a document that says I have been paid and surrendering all my legal rights to collect when I haven't been paid. Now he's going back to his bosses to see what they say.

Seriously, except for the stupid ones like fuzzylumpkins and Boutons, would any of y'all sign this before you got paid?


The undersigned, for and in consideration of $_________________________________, and other good and valuable considerations, receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, does hereby waive and release (i) any and all lien or claim or right of lien under the statutes of the State of _____________________ relating to Mechanics Liens, on the above described premises and improvements thereon, and (ii) any other claim or cause of action of any other nature, whether known or unknown, arising directly or indirectly as a result of labor, services, materials and/or equipment, fixtures or apparatus heretofore furnished, or which may be furnished at any time hereafter, by the undersigned for the above described premises. This release includes any claim for monies due or to become due from the Owner. Further, the undersigned states that it has not assigned any claim or payment against the Owner, its agents, partners, lenders, successors and assignees, and that no security interest has been given or executed by the undersigned for or in connection with any materials, appliances, machinery, fixtures, or furnishings placed upon or installed on the above described premises. Further, the undersigned agrees to indemnify and hold harmless Owner, it’s agents, partners, lenders, successors and assignees, from any and all charges, costs, expenses, demands, suits and legal fees, directly or indirectly relating to any lien or claim by any other party for work, labor, services, material and/or equipment which relates to that which the undersigned performed or should have performed, and from and against any lien or claim relating to any work, labor, services, material and/or equipment allegedly performed by or for the undersigned. The undersigned states that it has the right, power and authority to execute this instrument, which shall be an independent covenant.

[TeyshaBlue]

WTF?

I'm gonna present that to my mortgage company before my next installment.

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder what they will think if you have to take them to court, and win that money plus related court expenses?

[CosmicCowboy]

I wonder what they will think if you have to take them to court, and win that money plus related court expenses?

If I have to take them to court I will be billing them at my hourly rate of $150 an hour. I've even got an e-mail from the maintenance guy saying what a good job my guys did and thanking us for getting there so quickly.

[Drachen]

I know, tell the guy that you will do it at the same time. "on the count of 3. 1.....2.....3" then pretend like you are going to sign, and take his money instead.

[clambake]

having the lien is way more fun than $1400.

[CosmicCowboy]

having the lien is way more fun than $1400.

No shit. I had an apartment complex try to pull a fast one on me and stiff me for about 20K...They kept putting me off and I did some research and found out they had a sale pending on the complex and I went straight to the courthouse and popped their ass with a lien. This was like a 15 million dollar sale...they caught the lien at the title company in closing and the seller had to overnight a cashiers check for the full amount before the buyer would fund.

[DMC]

No shit. I had an apartment complex try to pull a fast one on me and stiff me for about 20K...They kept putting me off and I did some research and found out they had a sale pending on the complex and I went straight to the courthouse and popped their ass with a lien. This was like a 15 million dollar sale...they caught the lien at the title company in closing and the seller had to overnight a cashiers check for the full amount before the buyer would fund.

Did you keep their deposit?

[Das Texan]

No shit. I had an apartment complex try to pull a fast one on me and stiff me for about 20K...They kept putting me off and I did some research and found out they had a sale pending on the complex and I went straight to the courthouse and popped their ass with a lien. This was like a 15 million dollar sale...they caught the lien at the title company in closing and the seller had to overnight a cashiers check for the full amount before the buyer would fund.



:lol

morons.

[GoodOdor]

So CC is a plumber?

Explains a lot tbh.

[RandomGuy]

Had a crew do a little service call on a downtown hotel and install a pump and do a couple of other things...not a big deal...$1400 bill. Guy sends me a release of lien and says we have to sign it to get paid. I say I have to get paid to sign it. He says that's the way his bosses do it. I tell him I'm not signing a document that says I have been paid and surrendering all my legal rights to collect when I haven't been paid. Now he's going back to his bosses to see what they say.

Seriously, except for the stupid ones like fuzzylumpkins and Boutons, would any of y'all sign this before you got paid?

Fuck no. This is basically something that says "I got paid and release my lien". Whoever sent it to you does not understand what they sent you.

You are right not to sign it. Give them the benefit of the doubt though, it is probably just a simple, good faith mistake on someone's part. If they dig in their heels, that "probably" gets less and less probable though, IMO.

[RandomGuy]

No shit. I had an apartment complex try to pull a fast one on me and stiff me for about 20K...They kept putting me off and I did some research and found out they had a sale pending on the complex and I went straight to the courthouse and popped their ass with a lien. This was like a 15 million dollar sale...they caught the lien at the title company in closing and the seller had to overnight a cashiers check for the full amount before the buyer would fund.

Which is precisely why we have have mechanic's liens. Good for you, and fuck them for trying to stiff a contractor.

[ElNono]

So CC is a plumber?

Explains a lot tbh.

:lol

[LnGrrrR]

Yeah, seems like they think you're stupid CC.

Maybe they read Spurstalk too? :) I kid, I kid.

[EVAY]

Had a crew do a little service call on a downtown hotel and install a pump and do a couple of other things...not a big deal...$1400 bill. Guy sends me a release of lien and says we have to sign it to get paid. I say I have to get paid to sign it. He says that's the way his bosses do it. I tell him I'm not signing a document that says I have been paid and surrendering all my legal rights to collect when I haven't been paid. Now he's going back to his bosses to see what they say.

Seriously, except for the stupid ones like fuzzylumpkins and Boutons, would any of y'all sign this before you got paid?

No way. Don't you feel insulted that they assume that you are stupid enough to sign it?

[baseline bum]

No shit. I had an apartment complex try to pull a fast one on me and stiff me for about 20K...They kept putting me off and I did some research and found out they had a sale pending on the complex and I went straight to the courthouse and popped their ass with a lien. This was like a 15 million dollar sale...they caught the lien at the title company in closing and the seller had to overnight a cashiers check for the full amount before the buyer would fund.

:rollin

[CosmicCowboy]

So CC is a plumber?

Explains a lot tbh.

Yeah, I'm just a stupid plumber/AC guy. My ego has no problem that it makes you feel superior.

[Das Texan]

http://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/joe_the_plumber.jpg

Joe the Plumber says hi!

[CosmicCowboy]

No way. Don't you feel insulted that they assume that you are stupid enough to sign it?

Naaa...Ill probably end up being friends with the person that has to call me after I explain the difference between an unconditional release and a conditional release. I'll even email her an example of what her release should look like. Nobody is born knowing everything except Spurstalk political posters.

[CosmicCowboy]

I really do find it interesting that I am sneered at in here because I make a living as a mechanical contractor and have happy employees that like working with me. Strange. What are they teaching you little bitches in school that makes you feel so special that you don't ever get your hands dirty?

[mouse]

How come when you have a bar BQ for your employees you can't invite a few ST folks?

[GoodOdor]

I really do find it interesting that I am sneered at in here because I make a living as a mechanical contractor and have happy employees that like working with me. Strange. What are they teaching you little bitches in school that makes you feel so special that you don't ever get your hands dirty?

Calm down bro. There's nothing wrong with being a plumber. If you make a good living, then who are we to judge you?

[ElNono]

I really do find it interesting that I am sneered at in here because I make a living as a mechanical contractor and have happy employees that like working with me. Strange. What are they teaching you little bitches in school that makes you feel so special that you don't ever get your hands dirty?

:lol calm the fuck down. You have a successful business, good for you. Nobody is sneering at that.

[Wild Cobra]

I really do find it interesting that I am sneered at in here because I make a living as a mechanical contractor and have happy employees that like working with me. Strange. What are they teaching you little bitches in school that makes you feel so special that you don't ever get your hands dirty?
The universities of indoctrination teach them that people like you are the evil 1%.

[mouse]

Calm down bro. There's nothing wrong with being a plumber. If you make a good living, then who are we to judge you?

You really want me to find the worthless Airport Security quotes?

That's all people do at this site criticize a persons job or lifestyle.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL They backed down...sent me an email....If you won't sign that one will you sigh this one?


The undersigned, for and in consideration of the receipt of a check in the amount of $____________, and other good and valuable considerations, does hereby waive and release any and all lien or claim or right of lien under the common law or statutes of the State of _______________, relating to Mechanics Liens, on the above described premises and improvements thereon, and on the monies or other considerations due or to become due from the Owner, on account of labor services, material, fixtures or apparatus heretofore furnished to this date by the undersigned for the above described premises. The undersigned further covenants and agrees to save and hold harmless Owner, it’s agents, partners, lenders, successors and assignees from any and all liability or expenses on account of any charges or claims for labor and/or materials furnished to or by the undersigned on or for said job on or prior to the date hereof.

[Th'Pusher]

I really do find it interesting that I am sneered at in here because I make a living as a mechanical contractor and have happy employees that like working with me. Strange. What are they teaching you little bitches in school that makes you feel so special that you don't ever get your hands dirty?

You're sneered at in here because you're an unapologetic read teamer incapable of looking at issues objectively. Red team = good, blue team = bad.

[CosmicCowboy]

You're sneered at in here because you're an unapologetic read teamer incapable of looking at issues objectively. Red team = good, blue team = bad.

Red team LOL

I'm hardly that, dumbass.

The fact that I think Obama is an absolutely terrible president doesn't automatically make me red team.

[Th'Pusher]

Red team LOL

I'm hardly that, dumbass.

The fact that I think Obama is an absolutely terrible president doesn't automatically make me red team.

What was your response when RG suggested you become a democrat (as you're clearly a moderate)?

[CosmicCowboy]

What was your response when RG suggested you become a democrat (as you're clearly a moderate)?

I have issues with both sides. It's a lesser of evil thing.

[Th'Pusher]

I have issues with both sides. It's a lesser of evil thing.

Your response was fuck no, or something to that effect. That is not a "lesser of two evils thing", that is a complete disdain for a political party.

[CosmicCowboy]

Your response was fuck no, or something to that effect. That is not a "lesser of two evils thing", that is a complete disdain for a political party.

Agree that I have total disdain for Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.

[Das Texan]

LOL They backed down...sent me an email....If you won't sign that one will you sigh this one?


Must have been a fun response to them. My response, I'll come meet you. I'll sign this and then we can make an exchange of this and my money. Thanks.

[GoodOdor]

CC, do you have anymore similar stories from your work? Tbh I enjoy hearing this type of stories about people trying to
screw/scam someone over.

[RandomGuy]

LOL They backed down...sent me an email....If you won't sign that one will you sigh this one?

Still not good enough. It is a variation on "I promise I already got paid, and release any claim that might generate a lien".

[RandomGuy]

Agree that I have total disdain for Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.

Name Republican leaders you have disdain for.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, do you have anymore similar stories from your work? Tbh I enjoy hearing this type of stories about people trying to
screw/scam someone over.


Did quite a bit of work on a boiler at a laundry...several thousand dollars worth and the owner (chinese bastard) just flat refused to pay...nothing wrong with the work, he just didn't want to pay and told me so to my face. The boiler room was just a shack tacked on to the back of the building and didn't have a locking door. I went over there on my way to work one morning (about 5am) and pulled the flame safeguard relay, rewired the sub-base so when the power was turned on 120V went to the milliamp flame detection circuit instead of the 120V power circuit.

Flip the switch and *pop* the relay fries. They are about $800.

He got a new one, installed it and *pop* fried the relay.

Went and bought another one....*pop*

Got another contractor out there to install a new relay *pop*

They couldn't figure out what was wrong.

Called another contractor...*pop*

They couldn't figure out what was wrong

He finally called me desperate because he had laundry piling up for two days and couldn't run...and I told to get a $4500 cashiers check for the work I had already done and another $1500 cashiers check as a deposit for me to come fix the boiler...flipped the wires back, slapped in a new relay and went to the bank.

[CosmicCowboy]

Still not good enough. It is a variation on "I promise I already got paid, and release any claim that might generate a lien".

Naa..it's OK...I sign conditional releases all the time...

see the difference?


The undersigned, for and in consideration of the receipt of a check in the amount of $____________, and other good and valuable considerations, does hereby waive and release any and all lien or claim or right of lien under the common law or statutes of the State of _______________, relating to Mechanics Liens, on the above described premises and improvements thereon, and on the monies or other considerations due or to become due from the Owner, on account of labor services, material, fixtures or apparatus heretofore furnished to this date by the undersigned for the above described premises. The undersigned further covenants and agrees to save and hold harmless Owner, it’s agents, partners, lenders, successors and assignees from any and all liability or expenses on account of any charges or claims for labor and/or materials furnished to or by the undersigned on or for said job on or prior to the date hereof.

[CosmicCowboy]

Name Republican leaders you have disdain for.

Personally I don't think Boehner is very good. He needs to crack some heads and marginalize the right wingers that won't compromise...fuck em over on committee assignments, deny them RNC re-election money, etc. Play powerball.

[GoodOdor]

Did quite a bit of work on a boiler at a laundry...several thousand dollars worth and the owner (chinese bastard) just flat refused to pay...nothing wrong with the work, he just didn't want to pay and told me so to my face. The boiler room was just a shack tacked on to the back of the building and didn't have a locking door. I went over there on my way to work one morning (about 5am) and pulled the flame safeguard relay, rewired the sub-base so when the power was turned on 120V went to the milliamp flame detection circuit instead of the 120V power circuit.

Flip the switch and *pop* the relay fries. They are about $800.

He got a new one, installed it and *pop* fried the relay.

Went and bought another one....*pop*

Got another contractor out there to install a new relay *pop*

They couldn't figure out what was wrong.

Called another contractor...*pop*

They couldn't figure out what was wrong

He finally called me desperate because he had laundry piling up for two days and couldn't run...and I told to get a $4500 cashiers check for the work I had already done and another $1500 cashiers check as a deposit for me to come fix the boiler...flipped the wires back, slapped in a new relay and went to the bank.

Nice:lol

[RandomGuy]

Naa..it's OK...I sign conditional releases all the time...

see the difference?

Yeah... I see it, but it still seems to me to be a bit ambiguous on the conditionality department. I am not a lawyer, although I do read a lot of contracts.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah... I see it, but it still seems to me to be a bit ambiguous on the conditionality department. I am not a lawyer, although I do read a lot of contracts.

Pretty clearly says they only get the releases after I get my check.

[Sportcamper]

How come when you have a bar BQ for your employees you can't invite a few ST folks?
WTF Cosmic...Take Mouse fishing already...:lol
Seriously, they are squawking @ 1400.00 for all of that work?

[RandomGuy]

Personally I don't think Boehner is very good. He needs to crack some heads and marginalize the right wingers that won't compromise...fuck em over on committee assignments, deny them RNC re-election money, etc. Play powerball.

The people that won't compromise will not quite be deterred, IMO. They are the results of "more conservative than you are" primaries in very solid districts for the most part.

I think Boehner is doing as good of a job as can be expected.

[RandomGuy]

Pretty clearly says they only get the releases after I get my check.

I will defer to your experience, as you have read more of these than I have.

Seems like it could be a bit clearer, but that is just my preference.

[CosmicCowboy]

I will defer to your experience, as you have read more of these than I have.

Seems like it could be a bit clearer, but that is just my preference.

LOL

Legal documents aren't designed to be clear. They are designed to perpetuate the hiring of lawyers.

[RandomGuy]

LOL

Legal documents aren't designed to be clear. They are designed to perpetuate the hiring of lawyers.

I would agree to some extent. There is a certain populist movement in legal circles to make contracts into plain English, and I am all for that.

"I release any claim or lien, after I receive payment of X for my services."

One sentence. Easy.

[elbamba]

Somewhat disagree. Bad lawyers write bad legal documents. My client's pay me to write contracts that will not lead to them being sued. They get sued over my language, and its an issue I created to perpetuate more legal fees and I get fired, maybe even sued.

[elbamba]

I personally would not sign. You certainly do not want to go to court over a stupid lien release. Tell them to pay you in cash or credit and you will sign their release. If they want to pay you with a check, you will sign once the check clears.

[elbamba]

We have been pushing for this at our office. We try to delete obsessive wordiness and unnecessary legalese .

[mouse]

WTF Cosmic...Take Mouse fishing already...:lol
Seriously, they are squawking @ 1400.00 for all of that work?

I gave up on the fishing trip. And as of today I will stop replying to CC. I have done nothing to him to deserve his silent treatment.

But that is ok it tells me a lot about a person by their actions. And the day will come when he will ask me something and I will ignore his redneck ass.

[Sportcamper]

If it were me, I would show up at his Christmas bar be que…Make a huge plate of brisket and potato salad…And act like you are an invited guest…Cosmic will be too busy manning the pit to even notice…