Tim Duncan's Defensive Rating

[Juggity]

...Is currently the best in the NBA. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=def_rtg&c1comp=lt&c1val=99&c2stat=mp_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=25&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=def_rtg&order_by_asc=Y)

http://i.imgur.com/ieYwi.png

Which leads to the question: If TD is able to continue his so-far dominant presence on the defensive end through the rest of the season, does he have a legitimate chance to win the defensive player of the year award? Seems like he might.

[Dunc n Dave]

unless he averages 2.8 blocks per game and 13 or more rebounds, there's no way the national media will vote him as defensive player of the year. They only care about 3 stats: steals, blocks, and rebounds...

[Richie]

The Spurs need to get back to being a dominant defensive team.

If Duncan keeps his defensive ranking, sustains his current average of around 2.5 blocks/game and the Spurs have a top 3 defence then he has a chance.

[ffadicted]

0 chance the media gives it to him

[JRHernandez88]

...Is currently the best in the NBA. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=def_rtg&c1comp=lt&c1val=99&c2stat=mp_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=25&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=def_rtg&order_by_asc=Y)

http://i.imgur.com/ieYwi.png

Which leads to the question: If TD is able to continue his so-far dominant presence on the defensive end through the rest of the season, does he have a legitimate chance to win the defensive player of the year award? Seems like he might.
Im not so sure that the stat will hold up through the entire season tbh but I don't see why it couldn't happen if Timmy COULD keep it up. Thats still VERY good to see nonetheless especially having 2 of the spurs on that list top 10. Timmy down low patrolling the paint and Kawhi still learning and getting better on the perimeter.

I can't wait till Kawhi is back in the line-up. The boy looks like a sponge. He knows Pop wants his defense on the floor and already compared him to Bruce. He has all the tools for the job and has already been doing well against some of the leagues elite... Really looking forward to see his growth this year. It would be a beautiful thing to have another lock-down defender out there :cry

[wildbill2u]

The Spurs need to get back to being a dominant defensive team.

If Duncan keeps his defensive ranking, sustains his current average of around 2.5 blocks/game and the Spurs have a top 3 defence then he has a chance.

How about comeback player of the year. If he keeps this up, he should be a shoo-in.

[TDMVPDPOY]

0 chance of winning anything from here on after popgate

[Richie]

Just looked at the table, gotta say I think Kawhi at #10 is equally as impressive.

[widowmaker]

unless he averages 2.8 blocks per game and 13 or more rebounds, there's no way the national media will vote him as defensive player of the year. They only care about 3 stats: steals, blocks, and rebounds...

More like they only care about 1 player. Dwight Howard.

[TDMVPDPOY]

kevin love 6games played rank 2nd...lol statpadder hasnt even locked anyone down in his lifetime has no business appearing on this defensive rankin

[Russ]

...Is currently the best in the NBA. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2013&year_max=2013&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=def_rtg&c1comp=lt&c1val=99&c2stat=mp_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=25&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=def_rtg&order_by_asc=Y)

http://i.imgur.com/ieYwi.png

I'd think more of this if Kevin Love wasn't Number 2.

[BillMc]

I'd think more of this if Kevin Love wasn't Number 2.

This.

But still cool that Tim and Leonard are so highly ranked.

[GabeIsGone]

Great to see Kawhi on there as well. He is the youngest player by 3 years!

[Seventyniner]

I'd think more of this if Kevin Love wasn't Number 2.

And Carlos B:lol:lolzer #5.

[Juggity]

I'd think more of this if Kevin Love wasn't Number 2.

That's a good point, but there's a small sample size so far for his games, so I'd expect his rating to increase accordingly as he spends more time on the floor

[TD 21]

No, he has no chance. In fact, he probably won't even make the All-Defensive team. These things are largely based off of perception and the perception is that guys like Howard, Chandler, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah, etc. are on another level defensively (we know better, but the idiots voting don't). Plus, the Spurs don't do campaigning.

As prevalent as advanced stats are becoming in sports, they're not yet at the point where they factor in to award voting.

[SpurSwag]

zach randolph, boozer, and love are on this list :lol

[JRHernandez88]

No, he has no chance. In fact, he probably won't even make the All-Defensive team. These things are largely based off of perception and the perception is that guys like Howard, Chandler, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah, etc. are on another level defensively (we know better, but the idiots voting don't). Plus, the Spurs don't do campaigning.

As prevalent as advanced stats are becoming in sports, they're not yet at the point where they factor in to award voting.
That's fkn sad but its the truth.

[Andthentherewas21]

3 more games and we are basically through the first 1/4 of the season. There might be a slight decline towards the end, but unless Duncan gets injured he should be able to maintain what he's done. I think its getting to the point where if he was going to decline/revert back to the mean/regress/ect there would have been signs of it by now.

As to whether he will get consideration for it, I doubt it unless there is incontrovertible evidence that he is the best defensive player (which is difficult to do especially when the award is subjective). You would need the Spurs to be a top-5 defensive team, probably top 3. They would have to be the top seed in the West, if not overall. Duncan would have to maintain double-digit rebounds, be top-3 in steals for big-men (both Cs and PFs), top-3 in blocks, ect. That is a tall order especially since he isn't a half-court player.

[Richie]

Sitting out nationally televised games won't help either

[capek]

zach randolph, boozer, and love are on this list :lol

party pooper :lol

I've long since given up the hope that Timmy would get a few DPOY awards at some point in his career. In my mind he already has 3-4; him not having any is one of the first things that reminds me the NBA is closer to WWE than Football or Baseball. :rolleyes

[ChuckD]

zach randolph, boozer, and love are on this list :lol

Coat tail effect. They are on the floor WITH plus type defenders.

[Kidd K]

No, he has no chance. In fact, he probably won't even make the All-Defensive team. These things are largely based off of perception and the perception is that guys like Howard, Chandler, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah, etc. are on another level defensively (we know better, but the idiots voting don't). Plus, the Spurs don't do campaigning.

As prevalent as advanced stats are becoming in sports, they're not yet at the point where they factor in to award voting.

I wish I could disagree with you, but you're correct. Tim Duncan, while imo not DPOY (due to minutes played, not impact), has absolutely been at least an all NBA defensive team level guy. He was last year too imo. . .or at worst was a fringe choice to make the 2nd team.

This year he's CLEARLY been the best defensive power forward in the NBA, NOT Serge Ibaka. But he's going to get no love because it's the Spurs.

Like I said in previous threads (to you too I think), Duncan has absolutely been deserving of both All NBA team and defensive team. Maybe not first team, but if he doesn't at least make 2nd or 3rd team, something is seriously wrong. Especially when awful defenders like Kobe keep getting 1st team placements when in reality he wouldn't deserve being on the All NBA 6th team for defense, much less 1st.

I'm just going to reserve hope he gets those All NBA spots, and chalk up the major individual awards as a loss. Sadly, the guys getting nearly 3 BPG are going to get the DPOY trophies, even if their actual defensive impact is marginal in contrast. Remember Marcus Camby constantly getting that award? :lmao



And Carlos B:lol:lolzer #5.

Tbh, Boozer is underrated on D'. He doesn't block shots and all that stuff, but he at least stays in front of his man and clears boards (similar to Blair only is bigger and can contest a bit better, plus is actually in position moreoften). Sorta like what Rodman used to do, only less rebounds and overall energy in exchange for the much better offensive impact.

But yeah, #5? More a product of being on the Bulls than being that good by himself. That should even out as the season goes along and drop him to the mid 20s, still propped up a bit by being on the Bulls and playing in the easterm conference which has several terrible offensive teams.

[Johnny RIngo]

The stat is a bit misleading. Basically anybody that racks up a load of defensive rebounds on a good defensive team will appear at the top of these lists. That's why terrible defenders like Love/Boozer show up on here. Boxscore based individual defensive stats are not the best way to judge defense.

[Obstructed_View]

Duncan better than Dwight Howard? :lmao :lmao

[Raven]

kevin love 6games played rank 2nd...lol statpadder hasnt even locked anyone down in his lifetime has no business appearing on this defensive rankin

my thoughts exactly.

[Kidd K]

The stat is a bit misleading. Basically anybody that racks up a load of defensive rebounds on a good defensive team will appear at the top of these lists. That's why terrible defenders like Love/Boozer show up on here. Boxscore based individual defensive stats are not the best way to judge defense.

That's not how that stat is compiled. That stat indicates how many points your team gives up when you're on the floor. It's like +/-, but only takes defense into account.

That's why Matt Bonner's loved by Pop so much; his offensive rating is high because the Spurs team as a whole usually scores better than usual when he's on the floor, regardless of whether or not he's actually putting balls into the basket.

[spurraider21]

its hard to take this stat seriously when kevin love and carlos boozer are top 5 defenders, and zach randolph cracks the list

[DMC]

Tim won't even be voted into the AS game. He probably won't be considered for the NBA All Defensive teams. The league should have two sets of AS games, one for the tabloid players and one for the talent with coaches and sportswriters voting the 2nd.

[Malik Hairston]

Defensive RAPM is a more accurate stat, probably the best defensive metric, tbh..

Duncan ranks 3rd, only trailing Howard and Garnett by 0.1-0.4..

1. Howard
2. KG
3. Duncan
4. Smith
5. M. Gasol
6. Asik
7. Chandler
8. Iguodala

[Ice009]

Defensive RAPM is a more accurate stat, probably the best defensive metric, tbh..

Duncan ranks 3rd, only trailing Howard and Garnett by 0.1-0.4..

1. Howard
2. KG
3. Duncan
4. Smith
5. M. Gasol
6. Asik
7. Chandler
8. Iguodala

Now this is a much better list. I am seeing more guys that are good defensive players in it.

[timvp]

The defensive rating that basketball-reference uses is pretty much worthless. It leans heavily on rebounding, which is why Love is so high. Steals are also way overvalued.

If you are going to use a stat to judge defense, it has to involve plus/minus, IMO. Box score stats do an extremely poor job valuing defense.

[DPG21920]

Now this is a much better list. I am seeing more guys that are good defensive players in it.

Shocked to see KG so high on the list. Watched Boston play several games, and while he's been ok, I did not think he was having a great defensive season via the eyeball test.

[Ice009]

Shocked to see KG so high on the list. Watched Boston play several games, and while he's been ok, I did not think he was having a great defensive season via the eyeball test.

I haven't watched any Boston games apart from the game against the Spurs. I assumed that he was playing as hard as he can, but just doesn't have anyone to help him out this season. Don't they have a pretty weak front line depth this season?

[timvp]

Shocked to see KG so high on the list. Watched Boston play several games, and while he's been ok, I did not think he was having a great defensive season via the eyeball test.

Most versions of RAPM use the previous season as a baseline. Not sure about the RAPM he quoted but that could very well be the case.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Tim shooting 67% from 3 point range!

[TDMVPDPOY]

Shocked to see KG so high on the list. Watched Boston play several games, and while he's been ok, I did not think he was having a great defensive season via the eyeball test.

lol his the only one on the team that plays any level of defense, look at the bigs and backups, then look at the wing players....

[racm]

TDMVPDPOY's right, as much as I am loathe to say it...

[spurspokesman]

No, he has no chance. In fact, he probably won't even make the All-Defensive team. These things are largely based off of perception and the perception is that guys like Howard, Chandler, Ibaka, Garnett, Noah, etc. are on another level defensively (we know better, but the idiots voting don't). Plus, the Spurs don't do campaigning.

As prevalent as advanced stats are becoming in sports, they're not yet at the point where they factor in to award voting.
This

[spurspokesman]

The defensive rating that basketball-reference uses is pretty much worthless. It leans heavily on rebounding, which is why Love is so high. Steals are also way overvalued.

If you are going to use a stat to judge defense, it has to involve plus/minus, IMO. Box score stats do an extremely poor job valuing defense. I concur. Making someone taking contested shots, forcing them to make a basketball move that forces a turnover that someone else gets credit for comes to mind. Not just stealing the ball and blocking shots.

[Brazil]

I wish I could disagree with you, but you're correct. Tim Duncan, while imo not DPOY (due to minutes played, not impact), has absolutely been at least an all NBA defensive team level guy. He was last year too imo. . .or at worst was a fringe choice to make the 2nd team.

This year he's CLEARLY been the best defensive power forward in the NBA, NOT Serge Ibaka. But he's going to get no love because it's the Spurs.

Like I said in previous threads (to you too I think), Duncan has absolutely been deserving of both All NBA team and defensive team. Maybe not first team, but if he doesn't at least make 2nd or 3rd team, something is seriously wrong. Especially when awful defenders like Kobe keep getting 1st team placements when in reality he wouldn't deserve being on the All NBA 6th team for defense, much less 1st.

I'm just going to reserve hope he gets those All NBA spots, and chalk up the major individual awards as a loss. Sadly, the guys getting nearly 3 BPG are going to get the DPOY trophies, even if their actual defensive impact is marginal in contrast. Remember Marcus Camby constantly getting that award? :lmao




Tbh, Boozer is underrated on D'. He doesn't block shots and all that stuff, but he at least stays in front of his man and clears boards (similar to Blair only is bigger and can contest a bit better, plus is actually in position moreoften). Sorta like what Rodman used to do, only less rebounds and overall energy in exchange for the much better offensive impact.

But yeah, #5? More a product of being on the Bulls than being that good by himself. That should even out as the season goes along and drop him to the mid 20s, still propped up a bit by being on the Bulls and playing in the easterm conference which has several terrible offensive teams.

You probably didn't see the Bulls playing at all this year. Boozer at 5 is a disgrace, he is probably right now the worst big D of the league. His effort on D is just pathetic, he rotates late, doesn't come back in transition, he acts like he doesn't care at all. Bulls fans are so pissed off it's not even funny. I saw 3 bulls games in Chicago, the fans just hate him plain and simple

[Seventyniner]

Tim shooting 67% from 3 point range!

You must have missed Dwight Howard's 100%. 100 > 66.7 last I checked.

[Kidd K]

You probably didn't see the Bulls playing at all this year. Boozer at 5 is a disgrace, he is probably right now the worst big D of the league. His effort on D is just pathetic, he rotates late, doesn't come back in transition, he acts like he doesn't care at all. Bulls fans are so pissed off it's not even funny. I saw 3 bulls games in Chicago, the fans just hate him plain and simple

This year? Maybe 5 games since no Rose. Watched about 60 Bulls games each of the last two years though.

Most Bulls fans hate Boozer because of his salary, not his game. He's better than a lot of the players on the team, but gets hated on because they expect him to carry the team with Rose out and he's just not that kind of player.

Like I was sayin, Boozer's not going to block any shots. His main purpose is to defend his own guy, not to run halfway across the court to contest a shot after someone gets beat. Obviously he's not a super shot blocking athlete like Ibaka or something. And I agree that he shouldn't be at #5. Already said that though. :P He'll be in the mid 20's soon enough.

[Brazil]

This year? Maybe 5 games since no Rose. Watched about 60 Bulls games each of the last two years though.

Most Bulls fans hate Boozer because of his salary, not his game. He's better than a lot of the players on the team, but gets hated on because they expect him to carry the team with Rose out and he's just not that kind of player.

Like I was sayin, Boozer's not going to block any shots. His main purpose is to defend his own guy, not to run halfway across the court to contest a shot after someone gets beat. Obviously he's not a super shot blocking athlete like Ibaka or something. And I agree that he shouldn't be at #5. Already said that though. :P He'll be in the mid 20's soon enough.

You said that Boozer is underrated and you sorta kinda compare him to Rodman with less rebound and energy + O. I think you are on crack tbh. Compared to Boozer Rodman is the greatest D ever. I mean Boozer sucks. So far he is a worst Offensive player than Noah and that's sayin' a lot.

With his salary and his age, Boozer should be indeed the leader of his team. Even if you don't put your expectation high at least you could expect a minimum effort and leadership with Rose out. Fans hate him because he is not capable to just do that, he is talented but lazy as fuck, he has been literally a ghost in some games like against Portland, NO, Dallas and honestly on D this year he is worst than Bonner.

[Kidd K]

You said that Boozer is underrated and you sorta kinda compare him to Rodman with less rebound and energy + O. I think you are on crack tbh. Compared to Boozer Rodman is the greatest D ever. I mean Boozer sucks. So far he is a worst Offensive player than Noah and that's sayin' a lot.

With his salary and his age, Boozer should be indeed the leader of his team. Even if you don't put your expectation high at least you could expect a minimum effort and leadership with Rose out. Fans hate him because he is not capable to just do that, he is talented but lazy as fuck, he has been literally a ghost in some games like against Portland, NO, Dallas and honestly on D this year he is worst than Bonner.

I don't think you remember Rodman correctly. I watched the guy in SA and Chicago. Saw every single Bulls game that Rodman played in. I've been both a Bulls and Spurs fan for 22 and 21 years. They are the only two teams I watch when not looking at key matchups. And I watch almost every game for both team every year, unless they're terrible, then I will mostly watch the good team, and catch about half the games for the bad one.

Kevin Love's current defense is similar to what Rodman's was after leaving Detroit. Rodman was great in Detroit, then got soft and stopped contesting shots most of the time in favor of the higher rebounding numbers. That's the same shit Boozer and Love do now, and is what I was referring to by saying their defenses were similar in that respect. I didn't say Boozer's defensive impact was similar or the same as Rodman's, I said his approach to defense was similar. I explained it pretty specifically as well.

Like I already said, Rodman was better defensively, but Boozer does the same, "stay in front of guy, barely contest or don't contest, then go for the rebound".

As for the salary comment, you're just proving my point by saying that. His salary is the main reason anyone shits on him. The expectations of being "better" due to his salary is why he gets shat upon. He doesn't suck, he's just overpaid for what he brings. If he was getting 5m a year, he'd be heralded as an intregal part of the team and a big bargain. If he was getting 10m, not nearly as many people would say shit about his off games because the guys who get paid more than 10m (Deng, Noah), have more off games than Boozer does. This year? Not so far barely into the season, but last year? Nearly twice as many off games for those two than Boozer.