Stern makes statment on Spurs resting players

[ace3g]

"Maybe it's my mistake not to think that injury and illness when you're secreting someone away should also include deciding to move them out," Stern said. "So in all of the circumstances, I thought that if we didn't do something this time, there would never be a reason to do it.


"(It was the Spurs') only visit to Miami, practically the first month of the season. Notifying nobody and sending home young and healthy players merited a rebuke and I did it."



http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8718626/nba-commissioner-david-stern-says-san-antonio-spurs-rested-too-many-players-too-early (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8718626/nba-commissioner-david-stern-says-san-antonio-spurs-rested-too-many-players-too-early)

[Obstructed_View]

"virtually under cover of darkness"? What the fuck? The man is fucking delusional.

[timvp]

Stern still crying about it being the :cryonly visit to Miami:cry

[HI-FI]

the "only visit to Miami" is foreboding. sounds like Heatles will get ring no. 2 this year.

[Chinook]

I have a bigger problem with this part:


I would suggest to you if we had been notified it wouldn't have happened, so maybe from their perspective they did the right thing. --Stern

What the hell is that supposed to mean? It's one thing to fine teams for doing things you think against the interest of the game. It's another to jump in there and prevent it when it's happening.

[carina_gino20]

And Spurs did not appeal the fine? Weak.

I thought the inactive list is there so you don't have to makeup dubious injuries? Granted, we had more than 3, but still...

And if you're gonna fine them at the beginning of the season, there's really no fan-friendly reason for not fining them at the end of the season. Those people still buy tickets and don't get to see stars resting for the playoffs.

[TheSkeptic]

I can't be the only one wishing that Stern's retirement was this year. The hypocrisy. :bang

[Danny.Zhu]

OK. And fuck you Stern.

[Strategic]

He can lick my aft hole!!

[freetiago]

spurs obviously needed the rest
look how many guys we have injured now

[Darius Bieber]

"Notifying nobody and sending home young and healthy players merited a rebuke and I did it."

Tim is 36.

[timvp]

Reading between the lines, I don't think Holt is actually going to pay the fine.

-Stern used this as a warning shot to the rest of the league. The "if we don't do something about it now, we'd never have a chance to do anything" sounds more aimed at the league on a whole than at the Spurs.

-The Spurs haven't addressed the issue at all. From players to coaches to the team's media, it's made to be a complete non-issue. It's been so hush-hush that it seems like a command from the top.

-Both sides are pulling the "I'm just doing my job" card. It sounds like there were some discussions behind the scenes.

-If the Spurs were to fight this, they'd probably win. Holt isn't one to gift $250K.

It'll be interesting to see how Pop handles it from here on but I'm willing to bet that the $250K fine was rather just a wink-wink warning.

[widowmaker]

He can lick my aft hole!!

Damn nigga u want stern to toss ur salad? HAHAAHA damn thats funny LMFAO!!!!

[mercos]

Reading between the lines, I don't think Holt is actually going to pay the fine.

-Stern used this as a warning shot to the rest of the league. The "if we don't do something about it now, we'd never have a chance to do anything" sounds more aimed at the league on a whole than at the Spurs.

-The Spurs haven't addressed the issue at all. From players to coaches to the team's media, it's made to be a complete non-issue. It's been so hush-hush that it seems like a command from the top.

-Both sides are pulling the "I'm just doing my job" card. It sounds like there were some discussions behind the scenes.

-If the Spurs were to fit this, they'd probably win. Holt isn't one to gift $250K.

It'll be interesting to see how Pop handles it from here on but I'm willing to be that the $250K fine was rather just a wink-wink warning.

I thought the same thing once it appeared the Spurs wouldn't be fighting it. I know the Spurs as an organization typically avoid drama, but this had all the makings of a backroom mafiaso type deal. Pop gave Stern the finger, and restitution had to be made for his ego's sake. The money is irrelevant, its the mere act of punishment that is important. I don't even think the resting players bit mattered, because Pop has done this many times with no problem. Before the game even occurred writers were saying Pop might pull this off just to stick it to the league for screwing them on the schedule to make Miami look good. Stern saw it coming, and he was not happy.

[cheguevara]

neither side conceded which means this was a draw.

Pop will probably rest his players again but this time he probably won't include a young scrub with them. He also might not rest all 3 at the same time. And he will wait at least till 2013 to do it again.

and no, Spurs are not paying the fine either.

[Obstructed_View]

"Notifying nobody and sending home young and healthy players merited a rebuke and I did it."

Tim is 36.

I think he was referring to Danny Green, who, as it turns out, has a bad hamstring, which may have been bothering him. If nothing else, it proves that you don't just assume someone's healthy just because they're young.

[crc21209]

I'm tired of the "Only visit to Miami" argument. We all know damn well the people in Miami didnt pay to see the Spurs that night. They pay to see LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. And we all know Miami's arena is half empty most of the time anyway, so why does Stern care? :lol

[Obstructed_View]

It's really touching to discover how much David Stern cares about the scalpers in south Florida.

[FromWayDowntown]

The part implying the league's right to veto a move like this one sounds troubling, but seems almost unenforceable in any real sense.

It's also really odd for Stern to publicly give license to tanking late in the season while nitpicking roster management decisions early in the season.

[Baseline]

Nobody will ever know if Holt or anybody in the Spurs organization will ever write a check for 250K to "the league."

I agree that this fine is simply a public rebuke. Stern refused to get punked by Pop, so in this case, the money is immaterial. The fine will never be paid - Stern might as well have fined the Spurs $2.5 million.

[timvp]

Stern's message: It's okay to tank when ping pong balls are at stake. It's not okay to coach your team in a way your organization believes will maximizes its chances of winning a championship.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Stern's real message to Pop: "Don't humiliate me publicly. The size of my ego is inversely proportional to the size of my penis."

[Budkin]

Hopefully Stern dies of a heart attack soon and puts us all out of his misery.

[Slutter McGee]

I really have no problem with them not fighting this, just like I have no problem with them doing it. No sense antagonizing the league when you have an outside shot at a championship. The message was sent. The league was embarrassed. Let it go, and lets watch some good ball.

Slutter McGee

[FromWayDowntown]

It's a poorly considered punishment that becomes an even worse precedent every time Stern talks about it. He's either never going to punish a team in this manner (because it wasn't their only trip to Miami (and literally only Miami), or because it wasn't that early in the season, or because of some other meaningless factual distinction from the Spurs situation) or he's going to start truly micromanaging roster decisions by imposing draconian fines for those who make decisions that the league doesn't like. He's now all but said that teams seeking to rest healthy players must get league pre-clearance and suggested that the league can and will deny permission to do that.

[timvp]

It's a poorly considered punishment that becomes an even worse precedent every time Stern talks about it. He's either never going to punish a team in this manner (because it wasn't their only trip to Miami (and literally only Miami), or because it wasn't that early in the season, or because of some other meaningless factual distinction from the Spurs situation) or he's going to start truly micromanaging roster decisions by imposing draconian fines for those who make decisions that the league doesn't like. He's now all but said that teams seeking to rest healthy players must get league pre-clearance and suggested that the league can and will deny permission to do that.

True. And because of that, we'll now have teams faking injuries again. Next time Pop wants to rest TD, TD will suddenly come down with something.

[Beaverfuzz]

Surprised there's no Mayflower comments in this thread yet (cover of darkness).

[FromWayDowntown]

True. And because of that, we'll now have teams faking injuries again. Next time Pop wants to rest TD, TD will suddenly come down with something.

Then, teams will have to put injured players on an injured list and force them to miss 5 games before returning, or whatever that old rule was.

Imagine if the Spurs had won that game --Stern might have punished them for failing to inform Miami ahead of time that the Spurs were going to run a 1-5 screen and roll on the weak side at 2:37 of the third. How dare they not give an opponent notice of that!!

He's really not liking the way the coaches in his league make decisions that win games. Along with his ham-handed efforts to justify a wholly unjustifiable fine and to make his office the final arbiter of certain coaching decisions, he's now calling the intentional fouling of players "ludicrous." (http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=52212). Somehow, that rule only ever needs serious reconsideration when the status quo threatens the chances of a team in purple and gold.

[ElNono]

True. And because of that, we'll now have teams faking injuries again. Next time Pop wants to rest TD, TD will suddenly come down with something.

While true, that's something the Spurs couldn't have done that time in Miami. With 2 players already on the inactive list (Jack and Khawi), the Spurs could only place one more there, and then would need pre-clearance from the league to place a 4th.

Obviously, the Spurs could've just had them all in uniform and not play them. Injury or not, there's no rule against that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Obviously, the Spurs could've just had them all in uniform and not play them. Injury or not, there's no rule against that.

Perhaps, though the Commissioner can be read (I think) to suggest that if a team were to try that, it should seek approval and that approval would be unlikely and that ignoring the league's insistence that those guys play would bring reprisals.

[timvp]

While true, that's something the Spurs couldn't have done that time in Miami. With 2 players already on the inactive list (Jack and Khawi), the Spurs could only place one more there, and then would need pre-clearance from the league to place a 4th.

Obviously, the Spurs could've just had them all in uniform and not play them. Injury or not, there's no rule against that.

There's no rule regarding "injured" players having to be in uniform. The Spurs could have had 6 "injured" players in street clothes and still be within the rules.

The rule you're sighting regarding the 4th player on the inactive list is regarding being able to sign a 16th player.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's also interesting to see Stern trying to refute the gist of Woj's column last Friday by disclaiming anything personal between the league and Pop.

[ElNono]

There's no rule regarding "injured" players having to be in uniform. The Spurs could have had 6 "injured" players in street clothes and still be within the rules.

The rule you're sighting regarding the 4th player on the inactive list is regarding being able to sign a 16th player.

Well, what I mean is on the Inactive List, which is where teams are supposed to place "injured" players. The limit is 3 without consulting the league. A 4th can be added after consulting with the league. We were discussing this with Mel_13 on the other, larger, penalty thread. (salary cap faq on that here (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q76)).

You're correct they don't have to be in uniform though. The other questions would be: do they need to even be in the building?

[timvp]

It's also interesting to see Stern trying to refute the gist of Woj's column last Friday by disclaiming anything personal between the league and Pop.

Great point. Stern definitely read that article :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

fck the jew, who wins championships in december? does the nba hand out championships in december?

[polandprzem]

fck the jew, who wins championships in december? does the nba hand out championships in december?

It's not about championships for Stern at this point. It's about money and league good, fans as well needs to be satisfied along with tv stations who are showing the stars.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

I was typing my post related to the topic but then decided to delete it. I just remembered that it is about an old dumb greedy human being and that there is no point to react.

Pop treats member of Spurs as players and not peasants. :toast

[carina_gino20]

It's just another one of the league office's asinine thought processes. :lol at fining players because your officials are too lousy to recognize a flop. Are they really saying there have only been 2 flopping incidences since the season started? :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

One last thought about the troubling aspects of Stern's response(s) to this: by his statements, I think Stern has all but said that fans should only be interested in his league for the stars or superstars -- if they're not there, he seems to think that his game is either uninteresting or unwatchable. It may be true, particularly early in the regular season, but that's a pretty breathtaking admission by a league commissioner.

[boutons_deux]

"pretty breathtaking admission by a league commissioner"

it's so stupid you have to wonder how an intelligent man, a fucking lawyer even, can make it. The answer is that NBA had sold that game to TNT and its advertisers for probably premium rates. It's all about the $$$, not about the fans or the game.

[bus driver]

only visit?
someone call that fool and tell him the spurs will be there two more times for the finals

[Kidd K]

Look at this shit Stern quote, and think about it:


Maybe it's my mistake not to think that injury and illness when you're secreting someone away should also include deciding to move them out," Stern said. "So in all of the circumstances, I thought that if we didn't do something this time, there would never be a reason to do it.

That's the point. . .there isn't ever a reason to fine a team 250k for resting players. The NBA doesn't pay the players, the teams do. The guys writing the paycheck have say in how they use their guys, not the league who doesn't even pay them!

Maybe the league needs to start paying team owners' yearly stipends for paying for the players the NBA is showcasing and making money off of, because after all, now they're telling them how to run their teams and fining them for doing it "wrong".



I think he was referring to Danny Green, who, as it turns out, has a bad hamstring, which may have been bothering him. If nothing else, it proves that you don't just assume someone's healthy just because they're young.

lol, seriously. Green was the only player under 30 who got sent home, and his hamstring is hurt.

[Brunodf]

:lol Stern

[Obstructed_View]

It may be true, particularly early in the regular season, but that's a pretty breathtaking admission by a league commissioner.

The man who said "Lakers vs Lakers" set the bar pretty high for stupid.

[wildbill2u]

The ruling puts the league in a serious bind. Suppose Pop or some coach plays his stars for the opening tip and then pulls them. Or plays them a couple of minutes in both halfs?

Are we going to see a "Minutes Czar" handing out fines based on minutes played by stars, superstars, waning stars, almost stars, best on the team but not stars?

[ElNono]

One last thought about the troubling aspects of Stern's response(s) to this: by his statements, I think Stern has all but said that fans should only be interested in his league for the stars or superstars -- if they're not there, he seems to think that his game is either uninteresting or unwatchable. It may be true, particularly early in the regular season, but that's a pretty breathtaking admission by a league commissioner.

Is he wrong though? I mean, we all know the Spurs love to play a different brand of basketball and what not, but would the Spurs still exist without the David Robinsons or Tim Duncans of the world?

[FromWayDowntown]

Is he wrong though? I mean, we all know the Spurs love to play a different brand of basketball and what not, but would the Spurs still exist without the David Robinsons or Tim Duncans of the world?

Perhaps he's not. But he's just expressly marginalized every team that doesn't have a superstar, suggesting (again, as I read his statement) that people won't or shouldn't watch games without superstars.

I mean, if I own the Sacramento Kings or the Charlotte Bobcats, I know my team is bad but I don't need the commissioner of my league -- the guy who works for me to further my interests -- telling people that my bad team isn't even worth watching because I don't have a star-studded roster.

[Raven]

really the arguments stern points out, are just plain retarded and offensive.

[Mel_13]

Stern's bald-faced hypocrisy appears to have no limits. It's refreshing to see that most thoughtful observers realize how completely wrong he's been in this whole episode.

[Obstructed_View]

In a league of superstars, I'm not sure why David Stern fined the Spurs. All the superstars the fans paid to see actually played.

[ElNono]

Perhaps he's not. But he's just expressly marginalized every team that doesn't have a superstar, suggesting (again, as I read his statement) that people won't or shouldn't watch games without superstars.

I mean, if I own the Sacramento Kings or the Charlotte Bobcats, I know my team is bad but I don't need the commissioner of my league -- the guy who works for me to further my interests -- telling people that my bad team isn't even worth watching because I don't have a star-studded roster.

Well, I can't speak for the commish, but I think his counterpoint to that is that as the owner of a team without a superstar you should exploit the fact that the Lebron, Bryant, Durant (Duncan?) come to town all the time and make your money off of that until you get lucky on the lottery. If you look at it from that angle, sitting stars on road games becomes an problem.

Mostly playing devil's advocate here.

[Mark in Austin]

It's also interesting to see Stern trying to refute the gist of Woj's column last Friday by disclaiming anything personal between the league and Pop.


I wonder if Woj will have a response (hopefully he does).

[Mel_13]

David Stern tells @LAIreland "Adam Silver knows exactly where the bodies are buried and like me he buried some of them."

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/276488136736006144

Resting players does a disservice to the league and the fans, but referring to the current and future commissioners as if they were mafia bosses sends the right message?

[racm]

Did fans pay to see Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili? I doubt the average Heatfan even knows these three are potential Hall of Famers.

In fact the average Heatfan doesn't buy tix at the AAA. They just sprout up come May or June.
Mel_13 What would I give to see Pop as commissioner. :toast

[Mel_13]

While that would be hilarious, I'd much rather see him get the job he wants with the Olympic team.

[racm]

True, true. Pop getting a proper shot at coaching the Olympic team would be nice.

[temujin]

I can't be the only one wishing that Stern's retirement was this year. The hypocrisy. :bang

As if Adam Silver would be any different.

[temujin]

You Stern is old when he describes Duncan and Ginobili as young athletes.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, I can't speak for the commish, but I think his counterpoint to that is that as the owner of a team without a superstar you should exploit the fact that the Lebron, Bryant, Durant (Duncan?) come to town all the time and make your money off of that until you get lucky on the lottery. If you look at it from that angle, sitting stars on road games becomes an problem.

Mostly playing devil's advocate here.

If you're on a road trip, and you're going to sit your stars for one game, don't you sit them for the team with three superstars where the home fans always sell out? You certainly don't do it the night before in Orlando where they have nothing and probably half the ticket sales were people that wanted to see the visiting team.

If Pop were to tell you that he had regrets about benching his players, it was probably against Portland last year because he didn't realize how many Spurs fans were going to end up at that game.