Kobe pulling the championship card on Dwight?

[ElNono]

Howard's missed free throws are driving Kobe batty; he can barely hide his disdain on the court anymore. Same for Howard's trying-too-hard-to-be-jovial routine and a general impression that Howard doesn't live and die with the result of every basketball game. From what I heard, Kobe already played the "You don't know anything about winning championships!" card with Howard — during a scrimmage last week, when the second team beat the first team partly because Howard checked out (he wasn't getting the ball enough), followed by Kobe blistering him. That same week, Kobe needled Gasol publicly for not sucking it up with knee tendinitis, saying he needed to "put your big boy pants." The whole thing is strange.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8724362/the-kobe-question

[redzero]

:lol Get 'em, Kobe.

[midnightpulp]

And so it begins.

Called this shit weeks ago. I knew Kobe didn't respect Dwight's game. For all his hype and overblown status, what Kobe does not lack is work ethic and a never ending desire to improve his game, and I just knew Dwight's monkeyball style would offend Kirb's sensibilities.

Dwight's not resigning with LA.

[Clipper Nation]

:cry "But... but... just wait for the Lakers to get chemistry! Then you'll all see!" :cry

[AussieFanKurt]

to be the devils advocate I don't blame Kobe, Dwight and Pau are playing like absolute crumbs

[Malik Hairston]

If I didn't strongly dislike the rapist, I'd actually feel kind of bad that the Lakers are completely wasting his current unsustainable level of basketball, tbh..

[UZER]

And so it begins.

Called this shit weeks ago. I knew Kobe didn't respect Dwight's game. For all his hype and overblown status, what Kobe does not lack is work ethic and a never ending desire to improve his game, and I just knew Dwight's monkeyball style would offend Kirb's sensibilities.

Dwight's not resigning with LA.

Dwight didn't want to go to LAinthr first place for exactly what's happening....win Kobe gets all the credit...lose get all the blame and Kobe skates. The media would not let the Dwight to LA story die until it happened. LA was never on Dwight's list of teams to play for.

[Brunodf]

When Nash come back he will fix it.

[LkrFan]

I'm hearing that they are only scratching the surface of turning the Lakers into LA Drama. Shaq/Kobeesque type feud, tbh. Unless they start winning soon, this situation will boil over. Kobe needs to watch it though. If it comes down to choosing between Howard (27-years old) and Kobe (34-years old), if I'm Dr. Buss, I'm choosing Howard. When choosing between Shaq/Kobe, they chose the younger Kobe.

[UZER]

I'm hearing that they are only scratching the surface of turning the Lakers into LA Drama. Shaq/Kobeesque type feud, tbh. Unless they start winning soon, this situation will boil over. Kobe needs to watch it though. If it comes down to choosing between Howard (27-years old) and Kobe (34-years old), if I'm Dr. Buss, I'm choosing Howard.

What goes around comes around

[ElNono]

I'm hearing that they are only scratching the surface of turning the Lakers into LA Drama. Shaq/Kobeesque type feud, tbh. Unless they start winning soon, this situation will boil over. Kobe needs to watch it though. If it comes down to choosing between Howard (27-years old) and Kobe (34-years old), if I'm Dr. Buss, I'm choosing Howard. When choosing between Shaq/Kobe, they chose the younger Kobe.

tbh, Dwight is the one that gets to choose this summer...

[whitemamba]

tbh, Dwight is the one that gets to choose this summer...

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/08/dwight_howard_house_newport_be.php

[ElNono]

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2012/08/dwight_howard_house_newport_be.php

so what? :lol

His last purchase in Orlando was a $7.8 million house...

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-13/business/os-dwight-howard-house-20120813_1_street-of-dreams-houses-fireplace-dwight-howard

He might still own it. It means nothing. He's gonna get a max deal anywhere he decides to go.

[LkrFan]

tbh, Dwight is the one that gets to choose this summer...
True, my bad. It will be a S&T if he doesn't re-sign with us. They'll blow it up by trading Pau as well.

[ElNono]

True, my bad. It will be a S&T if he doesn't re-sign with us. They'll blow it up by trading Pau as well.

S&T don't exist anymore, IIRC. This was the last season you could do them per the new CBA.

[ElNono]

^ Actually, I have to double-check on that... might be after the 3rd year, which means next season is the last season

[whitemamba]

so what? :lol

His last purchase in Orlando was a $7.8 million house...

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-13/business/os-dwight-howard-house-20120813_1_street-of-dreams-houses-fireplace-dwight-howard


He might still own it. It means nothing. He's gonna get a max deal anywhere he decides to go.

did you even read that shit.. and i quote "If Howard decides to sell, he might get $6.5 million for the house and furnishings, Arbutine said. That would be a $1.3 million loss from what he paid. Buyers, she added, would pay extra for the bragging rights associated with purchasing the basketball star's house"

he would be losing 1.3 million thats why hes not selling...:downspin:

[ElNono]

he would be losing 1.3 million thats why hes not selling...:downspin:

:lol

Dwight is in the driver's seat here... and he knows it.

[whitemamba]

:lol

Dwight is in the driver's seat here... and he knows it.

and u guys in the back tbh..

[ElNono]

and u guys in the back tbh..

we just need to foul him :lol

[Richie]

True, my bad. It will be a S&T if he doesn't re-sign with us. They'll blow it up by trading Pau as well.

No need to sign&trade, Spurs will have the cap room

[AaronY]

kobe also has a no trade clause

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm hearing that they are only scratching the surface of turning the Lakers into LA Drama. Shaq/Kobeesque type feud, tbh. Unless they start winning soon, this situation will boil over. Kobe needs to watch it though. If it comes down to choosing between Howard (27-years old) and Kobe (34-years old), if I'm Dr. Buss, I'm choosing Howard. When choosing between Shaq/Kobe, they chose the younger Kobe.

won't happen the Dynamics are different...Shaq was a proven commodity an NBA rarity...Dwight is far from Shaq's level...D12 has good athleticism , nice frame but poor overall game. Choosing Dwight over Kobe if that ever was such a real thing would rip the floor from underneath Staples center...The Laker organization would fall to pieces given what Kobe means to the city...in fact Kobe retired still brings in more money to the franchise than an active Dwight...Dwight will hardly have the global appeal that even a retired Kobe would have...

[Koolaid_Man]

:lol

Dwight is in the driver's seat here... and he knows it.

actually Dwight is not in the Drivers seat...perhaps if he wants to take a $30 mill paycut...which with all of his baby mama drama won't happen...just playing in LA on endosements alone will net him a payback the likes of which he's never seen...so in all we could be talking about him ultimately walking away from 50+ million and if they win a title we're talking 75+ million...So no he's not in the drivers seat...He will sit his ass down and take instruction like everyone else...He's not that good to call his shots...everything he's done to date has been a colossal fuck up...no one can be that stupid more than twice...

[Koolaid_Man]

True, my bad. It will be a S&T if he doesn't re-sign with us. They'll blow it up by trading Pau as well.


If we can't get Josh Smith and Kyle Korver then we need to focus on pillaging the Raptors roster...

Trade with Toronto that works equally as well... and increases our win output by 5 games..we're basically swapping for each position and it's mutually benefical for both teams

Lakers out: Ron Artest, Pau Gasol, C. Duhon
Lakers in: J. Calderon, A. Bargnani, L. Kleiza

Lakers would then also sign Kenyon Martin as a MWP insurance policy for cracking heads when we need it...in all honesty this trade / signings would totally fix our problems...

[Raven]

And so it begins.

Called this shit weeks ago. I knew Kobe didn't respect Dwight's game. For all his hype and overblown status, what Kobe does not lack is work ethic and a never ending desire to improve his game, and I just knew Dwight's monkeyball style would offend Kirb's sensibilities.

Dwight's not resigning with LA.

i don't see where has kobe improved his game since his third season in the league, just doing the same stuff over and over to the point of not thinking at all, but he never really expanded his game like Lebron did..

[LkrFan]

i don't see where has kobe improved his game since his third season in the league, just doing the same stuff over and over to the point of not thinking at all, but he never really expanded his game like Lebron did..
:rollin

[Jodelo]

we just need to foul him :lol

:lmao

[Koolaid_Man]

i don't see where has kobe improved his game since his third season in the league, just doing the same stuff over and over to the point of not thinking at all, but he never really expanded his game like Lebron did..


^ Translation

Poster 1 - Midnight_Pilp: "Hi I'm dumb"

Poster 2 - Raven: "Wait till ya get a load of me."

[Latarian Milton]

DH ain't gonna leave 20m on table to sign elsewhere as a FA imho.

[irishock]

No need to sign&trade, Spurs will have the cap room

Spurs dont need Howard when they have Bonner

[Chinook]

S&T don't exist anymore, IIRC. This was the last season you could do them per the new CBA.

The sign-and-trade mechanic is maintained throughout the CBA. Teams over the apron can't receive a player in a S&T, nor can teams who have used the MLE.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

If a team like Atlanta wanted to trade Horford to the Lakers to get Howard back in a sign-and-trade next off season, they can. They just can't use their mid-level that year.

[Frenzy]

Well thet ain't winning. ..they have to stay in the headlines some how.

[Spurs9]

DH will be broker than Iverson when its all said and done.

[Richie]

DH ain't gonna leave 20m on table to sign elsewhere as a FA imho.

This is what I really don't get about American sports salaries. He wont be losing $20m, he'll just be signing for one less year. He will get that $20m in the first year of his next contract regardless

And even if he doesn't, why do players even care? Is an $80m/4yr contract really that much worse than a $100m/5yr if you can win a title with the former and not the latter? Of course the odds of winning with the Lakers is high because they'll get free agents and other teams will bend over backwards for them, but my point remains.

A lot of players care more about $$ than they do about basketball. It's pathetic.

Take Harden for instance, he got an extra $24m by signing with the Rockets, but is playing one extra year. If he stayed for what the Thunder were offering over 4 years he could leave Oklahoma with 4 rings, sign a max contract with another team and only be missing out on maybe $8m. Instead he's going to be on a late lottery team for 5 years and never sniff a championship.

[weebo]

This is what I really don't get about American sports salaries. He wont be losing $20m, he'll just be signing for one less year. He will get that $20m in the first year of his next contract regardless

And even if he doesn't, why do players even care? Is an $80m/4yr contract really that much worse than a $100m/5yr if you can win a title with the former and not the latter? Of course the odds of winning with the Lakers is high because they'll get free agents and other teams will bend over backwards for them, but my point remains.

A lot of players care more about $$ than they do about basketball. It's pathetic.

Take Harden for instance, he got an extra $24m by signing with the Rockets, but is playing one extra year. If he stayed for what the Thunder were offering over 4 years he could leave Oklahoma with 4 rings, sign a max contract with another team and only be missing out on maybe $8m. Instead he's going to be on a late lottery team for 5 years and never sniff a championship.

Gotta get that extra $$ in case sh!t happens brah....What if DH blows a knee in December playing in a meaningless game against the Bucks? How in the world would he ever feed his family?

[Richie]

Gotta get that extra $$ in case sh!t happens brah....What if DH blows a knee in December playing in a meaningless game against the Bucks? How in the world would he ever feed his family?

Exactly. Boo hoo, he'll only have career earnings of $180m rather than $200m. The way NBA players care so much about money is ridiculous.

[Riddler]

This is what I really don't get about American sports salaries. He wont be losing $20m, he'll just be signing for one less year. He will get that $20m in the first year of his next contract regardless

And even if he doesn't, why do players even care? Is an $80m/4yr contract really that much worse than a $100m/5yr if you can win a title with the former and not the latter? Of course the odds of winning with the Lakers is high because they'll get free agents and other teams will bend over backwards for them, but my point remains.

A lot of players care more about $$ than they do about basketball. It's pathetic.

Take Harden for instance, he got an extra $24m by signing with the Rockets, but is playing one extra year. If he stayed for what the Thunder were offering over 4 years he could leave Oklahoma with 4 rings, sign a max contract with another team and only be missing out on maybe $8m. Instead he's going to be on a late lottery team for 5 years and never sniff a championship.

He needs that dough so he can impregnate as many women as he wants while not being there for his kids and just give them money all while being the fake ass bible thumper that he is.

[ElNono]

The sign-and-trade mechanic is maintained throughout the CBA. Teams over the apron can't receive a player in a S&T, nor can teams who have used the MLE.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

If a team like Atlanta wanted to trade Horford to the Lakers to get Howard back in a sign-and-trade next off season, they can. They just can't use their mid-level that year.

thanks

[spurraider21]

Lol @ Kobe's "leadership" abilities

[baseline bum]

The sign-and-trade mechanic is maintained throughout the CBA. Teams over the apron can't receive a player in a S&T, nor can teams who have used the MLE.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88

If a team like Atlanta wanted to trade Horford to the Lakers to get Howard back in a sign-and-trade next off season, they can. They just can't use their mid-level that year.

The sign and trade is effectively killed in the sense that Bird Rights are no longer transferred, so that a sign and trade can only be for 4 years and 4.5% yearly non-compounded raises instead of the 5 year deal with 7.5% non-compounded raises the free agent could get by staying with his previous team (assuming he has been there a full 3 years or the team he is with traded for his Bird Rights). So now there is no reason to ever do a sign and trade, since the contract is the same as if the FA just signed outright with his new team's capsapce. Thus if Howard leaves LA he has to take a pretty big financial hit.

[djohn2oo8]

The sign and trade is effectively killed in the sense that Bird Rights are no longer transferred, so that a sign and trade can only be for 4 years and 4.5% yearly non-compounded raises instead of the 5 year deal with 7.5% non-compounded raises the free agent could get by staying with his previous team (assuming he has been there a full 3 years or the team he is with traded for his Bird Rights). So now there is no reason to ever do a sign and trade, since the contract is the same as if the FA just signed outright with his new team's capsapce. Thus if Howard leaves LA he has to take a pretty big financial hit.
Too bad Dwight's too dumb to understand and will probably still ask for a SnT :lol...We'll see if he can put up with Kobe for a few more years.

[Chinook]

The sign and trade is effectively killed in the sense that Bird Rights are no longer transferred, so that a sign and trade can only be for 4 years and 4.5% yearly non-compounded raises instead of the 5 year deal with 7.5% non-compounded raises the free agent could get by staying with his previous team (assuming he has been there a full 3 years or the team he is with traded for his Bird Rights). So now there is no reason to ever do a sign and trade, since the contract is the same as if the FA just signed outright with his new team's capsapce. Thus if Howard leaves LA he has to take a pretty big financial hit.

Yes, indeed. That wasn't want ElNono was talking about, though. He was saying that the S&T was dead after this year. I told him that some rules will be changed but that the mechanism will remain otherwise unchanged. The changes you described were implemented in 2011-2012, so I didn't mention them.

You can't have your cake (get Bird increases) and eat it too anymore (go to the team of your choice); you're right about that. A player no longer gets the benefits of re-signing with his former team. But the sign-and-trade still has a place in the sense that teams over the cap can acquire a player that they couldn't sign outright (like the Lakers did with Nash), and the trading team can still get something back for a player that no longer wants to stay with them. The Howard situation I described could still occur, but Howard would not get as much money as he would get if he stayed in LA.

I don't like that change, though. If anything, all it did was take leverage away from the teams. Now, players will demand to be traded during their final years (so they would get Bird increases with their new teams), and if teams don't acquiesce, the player has no incentive to push for an S&T.

[Riddler]

This is EXACTLY the reason Kobe will never ring again. Thinking only he was responsible for 5 rings.

[baseline bum]

I don't like that change, though. If anything, all it did was take leverage away from the teams. Now, players will demand to be traded during their final years (so they would get Bird increases with their new teams), and if teams don't acquiesce, the player has no incentive to push for an S&T.

Losing teams almost always get crap from sign and trades anyways. The only big S&T win I can remember was Detroit getting Wallace and Atkins for Hill, but they could have easily signed those guys outright anyways. Most of the time it's just a second round pick (e.g., what Cleveland got for LeBron) or some garbage the team doesn't really want (e.g., Steve Smith in the Derek Anderson deal with Portland just to keep from pissing off the agent). I don't like the new rule because it screws over the players, but from the owners standpoint it's a home run. A star can ask for a trade the year before, but they were already doing it anyways and now the team doesn't have to play along if they think their star won't really want to take less on the next contract. It gives a lot more leverage to teams in negotiations with their stars.

If Orlando was smart they'd have held onto Howard longer so that he would expand his list of destinations he'd re-sign at. They had tons of leverage there because Howard showed he wouldn't sign for less after waiving the opt-out that would have allowed him to sign in Brooklyn.

[Chinook]

Losing teams almost always get crap from sign and trades anyways. The only big S&T win I can remember was Detroit getting Wallace and Atkins for Hill, but they could have easily signed those guys outright anyways. Most of the time it's just a second round pick (e.g., what Cleveland got for LeBron) or some garbage the team doesn't really want (e.g., Steve Smith in the Derek Anderson deal with Portland just to keep from pissing off the agent). I don't like the new rule because it screws over the players, but from the owners standpoint it's a home run. A star can ask for a trade the year before, but they were already doing it anyways and now the team doesn't have to play along if they think their star won't really want to take less on the next contract. It gives a lot more leverage to teams in negotiations with their stars.

If Orlando was smart they'd have held onto Howard longer so that he would expand his list of destinations he'd re-sign at. They had tons of leverage there because Howard showed he wouldn't sign for less after waiving the opt-out that would have allowed him to sign in Brooklyn.


Um, Cleveland ended up getting a lot for Lebron, actually. They got two firsts, two seconds, and the trade exception that ended up getting them the first-overall pick.

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/10/1563131/lebron-james-sign-and-trade-miami-heat-cleveland-cavs-terms

But they're a bad example. The Bosh trade better with the Raptors only getting two firsts.... and the Nash trade (two firsts and two seconds)... or David Lee (four players and four picks)... Joe Johnson (Diaw and two firsts)... The list goes on and on, actually.

Usually, it's worth it to sign-and trade a player. The trading team at least gets a trade exception, which can come in handy. Even if they just get a second-round pick, that's more than nothing. Now, I doubt a team like Miami would even give that much to Cleveland for James.

Howard would get as much as any of those players. I could see the Hawks give up Horford two firsts and a young prospect or two. The Lakers would have plenty of reason to do that if Dwight really didn't want to stay.

[baseline bum]

Damn, never realized Cleveland got firsts out of that deal, not that they're worth that much in that specific case. My bad

[Chinook]

No biggie. :toast

I agree that S&Ts almost never give back equal value. Maybe that four-team sign-and-trade extravaganza a few years ago with Dallas, Memphis, Orlando and Toronto is the best example of that. I just feel like the teams got something for losing good players before, but now teams with cap room/exceptions have no reason to give up anything.