Random thoughts following 30-point victory and franchise record for 3PM...

[timvp]

-I'm really starting to think Nando De Colo's game was built for the NBA. I watched him in Europe and in international play and was reasonably impressed but I wasn't blown away. I had him pegged as a limited bench role player at the very best. However, some players (say like Ricky Rubio or even Jose Calderon) are just better in the NBA style of basketball. With more finishers around them, more room to operate, the faster pace and the increased freedom, this league is totally different than any other league. And thus, different skills that may be negated in other arenas could shine in the NBA. I'm not sure yet but we may be seeing that with De Colo. He's showing an ability to play at an extremely fast pace without losing control. He's also exhibiting the wherewithal to take advantage of spacing created following a pick-and-roll set. It's definitely exciting; we'll be able to figure out in the next couple months if this may be the case with De Colo or if he's just going through a hot stretch right now.

-Did Matt Bonner have some sort of rebounding epiphany? Seriously. Beginning in that Heat game, it's like he realized that: A) he's 6-foot-10 B) he's allowed to both box out and also go after rebounds -- not just either/or C) he has the freedom to go after offensive rebounds every now and then D) flopping out of bounds while the ball in the air is never going to be called in his favor. His fouls per minute are way up this season (double of last year) but if the trade off is a more physical version of Bonner (like he was back on Toronto) who *gasp* grabs contested rebound and knocks a few heads, that's a concession I'd sign off on seven days a week.

-I've said this all season but I believe it even more now: The Spurs can't trade Tiago Splitter. He's too damn good when all the cylinders are clicking. If you do trade him, you just aren't going to get equal upside in return. It's impossible. Yes, Splitter may crash and burn again in the playoffs, but that's a risk the Spurs have to make. The guy is a perfect fit for the bench, is starting to learn how to coexist with Duncan and remains the most deadly pick-and-roll weapon in the league.

-Bobcats fans booed Boris Diaw. You can't really blame them since he basically quit on that team. But it was interesting to see Diaw increase his level of effort when he heard the boos. That's a sign that he's coasting, which could explain the majority of his ineffective outings this season. Diaw is the closest thing the Spurs are going to find to Robert Horry. That resemblance may very well include early season coasting.

-Tim Duncan is good at basketball. My respect for him has never been higher than it is right now. I don't know how long this flashback is going to last but I'm going to savor it.

-When he's on, is Manu Ginobili the best passing shooting guard in NBA history? If not, who is? The guy can pass his nalgas off.

-When today's Tony Parker is at his absolute best, how many players in the league are better than him? I really don't think the number is that high. When he's at the peak of his performance, he's pretty damn unstoppable at this stage of his career. (Yes, I realize that despite how damn good he is, he's not in the championship-leading megastar category as a Prime LeBron, Prime Duncan, Prime Shaq, etc. Save the whining.)

-Did David Stern do the Spurs a favor by levying the fine? The Spurs historically get bored this time of year but I don't see that happening. The fine could be a subtle rallying cry for a long while ... perhaps the duration of the season.

[AFBlue]

I can't get over Bonner boarding his balls off. Nando's quick adaptation to the game and Tim's fountain of youth are surprising, but what Bonner is doing (including going for swats and rim-rockers) I thought I'd never witness.

[JRHernandez88]

that manu part made me lol

[ChuckD]

I watched an interview with Patty recently, and he said Tony had been mentoring him. I saw that tonight on a play where he blew past his man, and threw up one of Tony's patented 45 degree leaner layups. You just kiss the ball off the bottom of the glass with some english on it, and between the body lean/angle and the quick flip off the glass, the shot is fucking unblockable.

[ElNono]

In Bonner's defense (yeah I went there), he's always been relatively good in the regular season... you compound that with Blair being fairly abysmal*, and I think anything from Matt was going to look good.

Ultimately, unless Tiago can consistently beast like he did the last bunch of games, the Spurs will still need a tougher guy inside, IMO.


* compared to season 1 or 2 Blair

[superbigtime]

Nando's ball control against big athletic NBA players is really impressive. Very un-Beno. He oughtta be the back-up PG, although Spurs have many who are capable, this is Nando's talent and what he best brings to the team. I hope that is how the season plays out for him, and that Neal and Mills can play their natural positions. Pop's jacking with Neal has payed dividends though, Neal has improved in every aspect including ball handling. I'm a big Neal fan. He is money.

[HI-FI]

Bonner needs to play with this aggression more often, especially in playoffs, but I like what I'm seeing. He seems to be a cool guy and I think the team feeds off his intensity when he lets it loose. He's great at shooting 3s but those things can falter in the playoffs, as it has for him.

[AFBlue]

I'll add a random thought of my own that Cory Joseph has been a revelation this season. I know he hasn't gotten much opportunity in the stacked backcourt, but when he gets minutes he plays with a veteran steadiness. He rarely does the eye-popping things (although the spin-move in the lane into a layup tonight was impressive), but he plays solid mistake-free ball on both ends of the court.

Considering he was a hunchbacked clueless rookie with a terrible looking moonshot just a little more than a year ago, I'm really impressed with how far he's taken hiis game.

[JRHernandez88]

I'll add a random thought of my own that Cory Joseph has been a revelation this season. I know he hasn't gotten much opportunity in the stacked backcourt, but when he gets minutes he plays with a veteran steadiness. He rarely does the eye-popping things (although the spin-move in the lane into a layup tonight was impressive), but he plays solid mistake-free ball on both ends of the court.

Considering he was a hunchbacked clueless rookie with a terrible looking moonshot just a little more than a year ago, I'm really impressed with how far he's taken hiis game.

Co-Signed. That spin move had me like http://imageshack.us/a/img855/5051/tajgibson.png

[Libri]

timvp

With Nando adjusting, CoJo making some progress, and Mills providing offense, there is not going to be enough minutes in the backcourt for all of them. Also, I don't think Pop is the type of coach that would let a player, who is worthy of getting playing time, rot on the bench. Do you think that eventually the Spurs will give one of these players an opportunity to succeed elsewhere? Moreover, who's skillset do you think they would value more?

[Boomersgold]

timvp (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)

With Nando adjusting, CoJo making some progress, and Mills providing offense, there is not going to be enough minutes in the backcourt for all of them. Also, I don't think Pop is the type of coach that would let a player, who is worthy of getting playing time, rot on the bench. Do you think that eventually the Spurs will give one of these players an opportunity to succeed elsewhere? Moreover, who's skillset do you think they would value more?

Brett Brown was the Australian head coach and has a great relationship with Patty. I doubt he'll let Patty rot on the bench when Kawhi and Leonard get back.

[TD 21]

If De Colo can keep this up, does he become that extra decent piece required to upgrade the big rotation? Or does he become the piece that allows them to peddle Neal to upgrade the big rotation?

Bonner's not dumb. Between his outstanding regular season shooting and decent defense, if he adds decent rebounding, Pop will inevitably find it irresistible to keep him out of the rotation. The added bonus of that is that Duncan-Diaw get to play together more, which is obviously their preferred starting duo.

I was beating the "they need to trade Splitter" drum for a while (not because I wasn't a fan though), but I agree. He's not going to get them a Varejao or Smith and anything short of that is not even worth considering.

Pop clearly loves Diaw, but if the Jazz are amendable to this, does he love him enough to not do a Diaw, Blair, one of De Colo/Joseph/Mills, Anderson and 1 or 2 1sts for Millsap trade?

Ginobili has got to be the best passing SG in NBA history.

Hard to answer where Parker at his best ranks, but you could make the argument that only two or three players are clearly better. You could also probably say the same for damn near any top 20 player though. At their absolute best, they can pretty much all look like top 3-5 players at times.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Nando has been very entertaining and interesting to watch develop early this season.

[playblair]

the cojo haters will come around ..... cojo is a better avery bradley ....

[timvp]

Considering he was a hunchbacked clueless rookie with a terrible looking moonshot just a little more than a year ago, I'm really impressed with how far he's taken hiis game.Yeah if CJ improves as much between Year 2 and Year 3 as he did between Year 1 and Year 2, he'll be ready for a spot in the rotation next season. As it is, he'd have a shot if the Spurs didn't have more PG depth than they've pretty much ever had.


timvp

With Nando adjusting, CoJo making some progress, and Mills providing offense, there is not going to be enough minutes in the backcourt for all of them. Also, I don't think Pop is the type of coach that would let a player, who is worthy of getting playing time, rot on the bench. Do you think that eventually the Spurs will give one of these players an opportunity to succeed elsewhere? I don't expect the Spurs to cull the herd this season. This team is too fragile to risk giving up depth. What I expect to happen if/when the team gets completely healthy is for Neal and De Colo to battle for the backup PG spot (Neal, as of now, is in the lead). CJ will spend the year in Austin. Mills will be used as a change-of-pace PG/SG ... kind of like how Pop has been using Bonner as his change-of-pace bigman.

This upcoming summer, I think things will shake out in a way that the glut will be gone. Neal is a free agent so he can leave for a bigger opportunity if he wants. Mills, too, can become a free agent. But, no, in the short-term I don't think the Spurs are going to do anything than keep as much depth around as possible.


Moreover, who's skillset do you think they would value more?Hmmm ... that's a good question. Between De Colo, Mills and CJ, the one with the most valuable skillset is probably De Colo. His vision and passing abilities can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. We'll see if he can keep up this level of play once the NBA gets a scouting report on him but as of this second, his skillset is the one that stands out as most unique and thus most valuable.

[tmtcsc]

Pop clearly loves Diaw, but if the Jazz are amendable to this, does he love him enough to not do a Diaw, Blair, one of De Colo/Joseph/Mills, Anderson and 1 or 2 1sts for Millsap trade?


You have got to be kidding. I wouldn't trade Diaw straight up for Millsap.

[Brunodf]

If De Colo can keep this up, does he become that extra decent piece required to upgrade the big rotation? Or does he become the piece that allows them to peddle Neal to upgrade the big rotation?

Bonner's not dumb. Between his outstanding regular season shooting and decent defense, if he adds decent rebounding, Pop will inevitably find it irresistible to keep him out of the rotation. The added bonus of that is that Duncan-Diaw get to play together more, which is obviously their preferred starting duo.

I was beating the "they need to trade Splitter" drum for a while (not because I wasn't a fan though), but I agree. He's not going to get them a Varejao or Smith and anything short of that is not even worth considering.

Pop clearly loves Diaw, but if the Jazz are amendable to this, does he love him enough to not do a Diaw, Blair, one of De Colo/Joseph/Mills, Anderson and 1 or 2 1sts for Millsap trade?

Ginobili has got to be the best passing SG in NBA history.

Hard to answer where Parker at his best ranks, but you could make the argument that only two or three players are clearly better. You could also probably say the same for damn near any top 20 player though. At their absolute best, they can pretty much all look like top 3-5 players at times.

Are u nuts? Another undersized big? No thanks. IF Spurs would make a trade, should be to get a 7' C.

[timvp]

If De Colo can keep this up, does he become that extra decent piece required to upgrade the big rotation? Or does he become the piece that allows them to peddle Neal to upgrade the big rotation?I don't think De Colo will gain trade value this season. Maybe by the offseason.


Pop clearly loves Diaw, but if the Jazz are amendable to this, does he love him enough to not do a Diaw, Blair, one of De Colo/Joseph/Mills, Anderson and 1 or 2 1sts for Millsap trade?I don't think the Jazz do that. I don't think the Spurs would jump at that either. Millsap has a history of fading late in seasons and doesn't really fit great passing-wise or defense-wise. Having a PF that can be guarded pretty easily by a SF doesn't strike me as the missing ingredient. It'd amount to an expensive couple month rental that may not even offer an upgrade in retrospect.

[spurraider21]

No to millsap. He's a really good player, but at the end of the day he is undersized, and unless you are some freak like LeBron or Durant, you don't want your starting power forward to be undersized. Also, he's about to become an unrestricted free agent and will be overpaid for his services. I want no part of that

[TDMVPDPOY]

de colo will not get playoff minutes, his not like KL last season when he was needed...

decolo will have to accept the rookie role in the playoffs...limited minutes in scrub mercy games...

[jiggy_55]

Whats happening with James Anderson? Any chance he's given a season long deal? He's already been around longer than the 10 day call up, which means they've called him up twice. He's been decent and we've had injuries so he could always be used as a spare body.

[mathbzh]

When I see De Colo now, I wonder if his early struggle were really related to basketball.
How is/was his English? Could he get everything Pop was saying?
He looked so shy... which is really uncharacteristic of is game (he was really a leader in Europe)... and now he looks so confident.

[Johnny RIngo]

de colo will not get playoff minutes, his not like KL last season when he was needed...

decolo will have to accept the rookie role in the playoffs...limited minutes in scrub mercy games...

Never been a big fan of DeColo in Europe but Timvp may be right about his game being more suited to the NBA. Still, I'd like to see how he performs against a team like the Thunder/Clippers. Having another legit playmaker in our backcourt is always a plus. Now if only he learned how to shoot.

[team-work]

For a casual fan who doesn't study basketball as thoroughly as timvp, I agree most with his last point. Since Stern initialized this "Restgate", I've been wondering whether this served as extra motivation for the whole Spurs team to compete for this season's championship. Imagine how embarrassed he would be to hand the LOB trophy over to Holt/Pop.

[NASpurs]

timvp, can you talk about the defense not specifically in this game but in the 20+ game sample so far in the season? It used to be that field goal percentage was used to gauge a team but with the quick pace the Spurs have, that can be misleading. So I'm guessing something like defensive efficiency is used. According to these stats (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true), the Spurs are 5th in offensive efficiency and 6th in defensive efficiency (don't know if the stats were updated yet as I'm typing this). That has to be encouraging as far as defense is concerned if I'm reading those stats correctly. But then it has the Lakers at 6th in offense and 9th in defense and that just messes up whatever positives I have in my mind seeing how bad the Lakers are.

[angelbelow]

Sounds like a fun season, wish I had more time.

[spurraider21]

For a casual fan who doesn't study basketball as thoroughly as timvp, I agree most with his last point. Since Stern initialized this "Restgate", I've been wondering whether this served as extra motivation for the whole Spurs team to compete for this season's championship. Imagine how embarrassed he would be to hand the LOB trophy over to Holt/Pop.
I've probably said it on this forum enough times to annoy people, but I truly see this year's Miami restgate as an exact parallel to last season's OT loss to Dallas, where Pop benched the starters we were getting blown out and the bench brought us all the way back, and Green hit a game winner just AFTER the buzzer, and they eventually lost in overtime. I still remember Pop didn't reinsert the starters even in overtime, and let the bench grow confident. We were 12-9 or 12-10 at that point and when on some huge runs to close the season.

Even though our record was good this season going into the Miami game, we didn't seem as sharp as we did last season. Since the Miami game, where our reserves narrowly lost a huge game, we've been absolutely on fire, even beating Memphis in the process

[elemento]

Yeah, I am really happy with this team right now.

I would add Cojo's development as well. People were trashing him so much in ST (especially Cobra who disappeared), saying that he wouldn't even have his option taken, that he was a scrub. He was taken with a late 1st round pick as very young freshman out of college. He was a project and now he shows good signs of development. I am pleased with his development. He is a very good defender and he looks really calm controlling the ball, setting up plays and his ball-handling skills look good. At this point I think he already proved people wrong.

[Em-City]

I'm also very happy with how we've been performing. I don't want to nit-pick and i think we're playing better than any team in the league right now but I'll just highlight our one glaring weakness (aside from the defensive rebounding):

Shot-blocking in the paint when timmy is not on the floor. Teams have no deterrent to attacking the paint if our HOF big-man is not on the court. Not sure how big an impact this will be down the line, but something to keep an eye on.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Excellent thread! Only mistake so far... Anderson is not on 10 day contracts, those don't start until later in the year (January I think).

The overall point is that the Spurs now essentially have a great starting 5, and a second 5 who can compete with almost any other teams' starting 5. And this is without Leonard and Jackson. Not to mention the last 2, Joseph and Anderson, are proving they belong somewhere in the NBA. You have to give Pop credit for keeping this group together and intact and pushing them all and giving them all every chance to improve.

If you go down the line:

Timmy: just wow. Savvy vet schooling the young guns. Makes it look easy. Note: did anyone else see the little Parker-esque runner/floater he tossed in last night? I was like, holy crap, is this guy bored and just amusing himself? Where did THAT come from? Reminded me of the game where Larry Bird decided to play left-handed http://youtu.be/R76nMD8buR8

Tony: has become a cold blooded assassin and leader of the team.

Manu: finding his form. Leading the slick passing crafty Euro contingent and loving it.

DeColo: it's a joy watching him find his confidence before our eyes. At first he was a bit overwhelmed by the speed and aggressiveness of the NBA. But since the restgate game, he looks like he belongs. I'm beginning to see he is not Manu. He is not throwing crazy high risk passes and doesn't have Manu's athleticism. But he sees the court and the angles, dare I say it, better than Manu. Some of his assists are quietly brilliant.

Bonner: I think he's internalized Pop's message that if he wants to play he's got to rebound and play defense. He's smarter than the average bear.

Splitter: clearly wants to stick in the NBA. Has made huge strides in FT shooting, finishing in the lane, and defense.

Diaw: like Bonner, got the message by bring demoted. Playing with more energy.

Trades? That's for the future. The Spurs have something special going right now. Trading for a 7 footer may not be so important in today's NBA.

[MVPCues]

For a casual fan who doesn't study basketball as thoroughly as timvp, I agree most with his last point. Since Stern initialized this "Restgate", I've been wondering whether this served as extra motivation for the whole Spurs team to compete for this season's championship. Imagine how embarrassed he would be to hand the LOB trophy over to Holt/Pop.

And if that happens, you KNOW Pop would state...with a smile...being able to rest his guys at key moments during the season to keep them fresh and injury free for the playoffs was an important part of them winning the trophy. How sweet that would be.

[Bruno]

-I'm really starting to think Nando De Colo's game was built for the NBA. I watched him in Europe and in international play and was reasonably impressed but I wasn't blown away.

I would say it's more related to the coach and the role he gives to De Colo.
During his 3 years stint with Valencia, De Colo has had 5 different coaches. There were some coaches like Spahija and Perasovic that trusted him and put the ball in his hands and De Colo was very good with them. There were coaches like Paco Olmos who considered him too wild to put the ball in his hands and wanted a more structured and disciplined game. De Colo failed to play well for these coaches.

I would give a lot of credits to Pop for De Colo early success. He is an instinctive player that needs some freedom. Pop is giving him a lot of trust and freedom with the second unit and results have been mostly positives so far.

On a side note, Spurs best +/- pair without a member of the big three in it is De Colo/Splitter with +65 in 136 minutes played together. I don't think it's a coincidence. They are playing great together and this association is a reason of the very good stint both have had lately.



-I've said this all season but I believe it even more now: The Spurs can't trade Tiago Splitter. He's too damn good when all the cylinders are clicking. If you do trade him, you just aren't going to get equal upside in return. It's impossible. Yes, Splitter may crash and burn again in the playoffs, but that's a risk the Spurs have to make. The guy is a perfect fit for the bench, is starting to learn how to coexist with Duncan and remains the most deadly pick-and-roll weapon in the league.

His ability to play with Duncan and Pop's willingness, that started during the training camp, to pair them is a big reason why Spurs shouldn't trade him.

Duncan and Splitter have played 86 minutes together this year with a +26 +/- stat. That's damn good.

[bigfan]

Thing about Bonner that has always pissed me off is he is a big ole bastard and should getting the hell out of the boards. No idea what motivated him but maybe Pop finally told Bonner he would be a goner if he didnt start hustling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ragXpWsAI

[DMC]

Bonner cracks me up when he comes down court on offense. He sprints to a certain spot atop the key, then he looks around to see what's going on, and goes there. It's like his court vision isn't enabled before he gets to his spot.

[DMC]

If De Colo can keep this up, does he become that extra decent piece required to upgrade the big rotation? Or does he become the piece that allows them to peddle Neal to upgrade the big rotation?

Bonner's not dumb. Between his outstanding regular season shooting and decent defense, if he adds decent rebounding, Pop will inevitably find it irresistible to keep him out of the rotation. The added bonus of that is that Duncan-Diaw get to play together more, which is obviously their preferred starting duo.

I was beating the "they need to trade Splitter" drum for a while (not because I wasn't a fan though), but I agree. He's not going to get them a Varejao or Smith and anything short of that is not even worth considering.

Pop clearly loves Diaw, but if the Jazz are amendable to this, does he love him enough to not do a Diaw, Blair, one of De Colo/Joseph/Mills, Anderson and 1 or 2 1sts for Millsap trade?

Ginobili has got to be the best passing SG in NBA history.

Hard to answer where Parker at his best ranks, but you could make the argument that only two or three players are clearly better. You could also probably say the same for damn near any top 20 player though. At their absolute best, they can pretty much all look like top 3-5 players at times.

We don't need pseudo-stars, certainly don't need another "but he can dunk" player like RJ. If you look around the league, the only real changes teams make is when they stack. The Spurs aren't going to stack using outside help because A) no other high end talent is going to come to SA and B) we couldn't afford them if they would. So, unless someone can suggest something that will make a difference in the playoffs, I see no reason to entertain any trade ideas.

[ElNono]

We don't need pseudo-stars, certainly don't need another "but he can dunk" player like RJ. If you look around the league, the only real changes teams make is when they stack. The Spurs aren't going to stack using outside help because A) no other high end talent is going to come to SA and B) we couldn't afford them if they would. So, unless someone can suggest something that will make a difference in the playoffs, I see no reason to entertain any trade ideas.

Never say never, though... Both Diaw and Jack fell on our laps last season. Spurs have enough expirings in Bonner/Blair... possibly Jackson to take a look at some bottom-feeder teams and see if they can pry some guys off in exchange for cap relief. For example (and this might be a longshot), a guy like Greg Monroe in Detroit or Gortat in Phoenix.

[Manufan909]

I'm also very happy with how we've been performing. I don't want to nit-pick and i think we're playing better than any team in the league right now but I'll just highlight our one glaring weakness (aside from the defensive rebounding):

Shot-blocking in the paint when timmy is not on the floor. Teams have no deterrent to attacking the paint if our HOF big-man is not on the court. Not sure how big an impact this will be down the line, but something to keep an eye on.

You have to give Splitter some props for being a decent 2nd unit defensive anchor. Idk if .8 blocks per 20 min is solid or not, but Splitter does contest when possible. He doesn't alter/block as many shots as I'd like, but it's not my fault the Spurs chose Blair over Ian.

[Paranoid Pop]

We don't need pseudo-stars, certainly don't need another "but he can dunk" player like RJ. If you look around the league, the only real changes teams make is when they stack. The Spurs aren't going to stack using outside help because A) no other high end talent is going to come to SA and B) we couldn't afford them if they would. So, unless someone can suggest something that will make a difference in the playoffs, I see no reason to entertain any trade ideas.

We have too many guards and a somewhat suspect frontline, if we don't trade for size and at least try to get someone better than Blair than I'd think the FO is not even trying. Not saying it's easy but doesn't seem like it's mission impossible either, doesn't have to be a star at all to make us better.

[Mark in Austin]

I don't care what lights go on for Bonner. He has a long, consistent history of disappearing in the playoffs. Making him a part of the rotation again, no matter how well he plays, is a mistake. Being dependent on Bonner to win is suicide for this team.

Fools Gold.

[AFBlue]

On a side note, Spurs best +/- pair without a member of the big three in it is De Colo/Splitter with +65 in 136 minutes played together. I don't think it's a coincidence. They are playing great together and this association is a reason of the very good stint both have had lately.

(Splitter's) ability to play with Duncan and Pop's willingness, that started during the training camp, to pair them is a big reason why Spurs shouldn't trade him.

Duncan and Splitter have played 86 minutes together this year with a +26 +/- stat. That's damn good.

Great stuff Bruno on the on-court productivity of both combos. Completely agree that Splitter's value to the team increases exponentially with his ability to play (successfully) alongside Duncan.

[Kidd K]

I think you may be right about Diaw. He seems to coast against bad teams then try against good ones.

If he'd at least stop dribbling into the clogged paint when he has a wide open three pointer with no one within 15 feet, I wouldn't have as many issues with the guy. If he'd just work on his threes, he's be a huge asset. Dude's wide open all the time. Though maybe teams leave him open because they know he's gunshy from 3.

And I hate to admit it, but I'm actually interested whenever Bonner enters a game now. I want to see if he still plays at the same level. :\ When he dunked all over the Rockets the other day, that shit was gold. :lmao

[DMC]

We have too many guards and a somewhat suspect frontline, if we don't trade for size and at least try to get someone better than Blair than I'd think the FO is not even trying. Not saying it's easy but doesn't seem like it's mission impossible either, doesn't have to be a star at all to make us better.

Contrary to all the ageless, timeless talk, Duncan cannot dominate the league's star bigs like he did in the past. Other teams have also changed, there are some really stacked teams now. We would need a serious upgrade to the center position to have a real chance at competing against the Thunder, and who is going to stop Kevin Durant? We don't have anyone outside the paint who can even slow him down. If we could get Russell Westbrook, he's the only one I've seen who can keep KD from scoring.

You're talking about getting rid of your old washer and buying a laundromat. It's not feasible. No one is going to trade a force in the paint for a liability and we should not destroy our regular season championship team for one that more closely resembles, on paper, a contender. There are a number of teams in the league who have the classical contender setup and who don't do shit with it because of egos, lack of basketball IQ and objectives that appear to be something other than winning a ring, on both the players and the front office's parts. Just look at the Lakers, for example. It's probably a consensus among most here that the Spurs would be a serious title contender if we got Howard and lost Blair. The Lakers didn't lose anyone, and they got Howard. They are struggling. They might right the ship but they might not. It's not just talent that gets you there, it's the right combination of personalities from bottom to top. You cannot just bring names in and win rings (Lebron notwithstanding).

It continues to be true that any trade we can feasibly make isn't going to improve our chances. That doesn't mean we don't want better talent, but the only thing we can do is screw things up by trading. We made the WCF last year, could have won it given a change here and there. That's as good as some of the best Spurs teams have done. That next step takes a lot more than just a different guy on the team. It takes some different guys on the other teams. We won't always be in the mix. We're lucky to be where we are and it's really really easy to screw that up.

[letmk]

Since we are dreaming, the only trade makes sense to us and is also sort of "possible" is to explore a Jack-for-Batum trade.

Batum signed with Wolves before being matched by Blazers, and they seem to go into tank mode (involuntarily). Now both Batum and Aldridge are unhappy and not playing that hard. A package of both of them would work as well, although I prefer Batum only based on Spurs' needs.

Varejao would be great, but based on his performance his trade value is too high right now. Plus, when all the other 29 teams at looking at a player, no way Spurs can get him. Spurs can only get those under-the-radar yet solid players.

[Brazil]

Never say never, though... Both Diaw and Jack fell on our laps last season. Spurs have enough expirings in Bonner/Blair... possibly Jackson to take a look at some bottom-feeder teams and see if they can pry some guys off in exchange for cap relief. For example (and this might be a longshot), a guy like Greg Monroe in Detroit or Gortat in Phoenix.

Monroe is too damn important for the Pistons to entertain a trade idea tbh. He is now the cornerstone of what Pistons are doin' right now. On a side note I saw a lot of Pistons games and still can't figure out what is his ceiling, for sure he is good but super star good ? difficult to say but I like him a lot, he has some Tim Duncan in him: low profile, he is playing clean unselfish basketball.

[Paranoid Pop]

Since we are dreaming, the only trade makes sense to us and is also sort of "possible" is to explore a Jack-for-Batum trade.

Batum signed with Wolves before being matched by Blazers, and they seem to go into tank mode (involuntarily). Now both Batum and Aldridge are unhappy and not playing that hard. A package of both of them would work as well, although I prefer Batum only based on Spurs' needs.

We're not the Lakers :lol.

[ElNono]

Monroe is too damn important for the Pistons to entertain a trade idea tbh. He is now the cornerstone of what Pistons are doin' right now. On a side note I saw a lot of Pistons games and still can't figure out what is his ceiling, for sure he is good but super star good ? difficult to say but I like him a lot, he has some Tim Duncan in him: low profile, he is playing clean unselfish basketball.

Well, I did say longshot. But the Pistons right now I'm not sure they know what they want to do. They're $10m under the cap, and Magette and Hamilton comes off the book at the end of the season for another $15m in cap space. But Maxiell and Will Bynum are probably going to look to get paid. Monroe is fairly cheap, but he's one of the few long term deals they have and like you said, it's hard to figure out he's a guy you can make the centerpiece of your team. They're still losing games left and right, and probably end up at the bottom again. The question is if you can make them bite playing on their desperation if they decide to fully tank again.

[Mel_13]

-I've said this all season but I believe it even more now: The Spurs can't trade Tiago Splitter. He's too damn good when all the cylinders are clicking. If you do trade him, you just aren't going to get equal upside in return. It's impossible. Yes, Splitter may crash and burn again in the playoffs, but that's a risk the Spurs have to make. The guy is a perfect fit for the bench, is starting to learn how to coexist with Duncan and remains the most deadly pick-and-roll weapon in the league.

This has been obvious since he was installed as Duncan's backup last season. It goes well beyond his importance as the anchor of the second unit on both sides of the court. The quality of his play allows Pop to manage Duncan's minutes with little or no adverse impact on the team's prospects.

[Mel_13]

Well, I did say longshot. But the Pistons right now I'm not sure they know what they want to do. They're $10m under the cap, and Magette and Hamilton comes off the book at the end of the season for another $15m in cap space. But Maxiell and Will Bynum are probably going to look to get paid. Monroe is fairly cheap, but he's one of the few long term deals they have and like you said, it's hard to figure out he's a guy you can make the centerpiece of your team. They're still losing games left and right, and probably end up at the bottom again. The question is if you can make them bite playing on their desperation if they decide to fully tank again.

There's no circumstance where they salary dump Monroe at 4M next season. They have to meet minimum payroll and minimum roster spots. Monroe for less than the MLE is a bargain in NBA terms. If they do choose to move him, they'll get real assets in return.

[Mel_13]

Brett Brown was the Australian head coach and has a great relationship with Patty. I doubt he'll let Patty rot on the bench when Kawhi and Leonard get back.

Once Leonard and Jackson return, Mills will be well outside the 10 man rotation. Hell, he's outside the regular rotation with both of them out. Coach Brown's high regard for Mills won't change that simple fact.

[Mel_13]

I would give a lot of credits to Pop for De Colo early success. He is an instinctive player that needs some freedom. Pop is giving him a lot of trust and freedom with the second unit and results have been mostly positives so far.

While the comparisons between Nando and Manu are overblown, I believe that they apply with respect to Pop. His experience with Manu has made Nando's path a little easier. An earlier version of Pop would not have shown this much patience so early in Nando's NBA career.

Also, credit to Nando for being ready to take advantage of the opportunity presented with the injuries to Leonard and Jackson, much like Gary Neal was ready when Anderson went down two years ago. Now, the two of them will be competing for one spot in the rotation once Jackson and Leonard return.

[Brazil]

Well, I did say longshot. But the Pistons right now I'm not sure they know what they want to do. They're $10m under the cap, and Magette and Hamilton comes off the book at the end of the season for another $15m in cap space. But Maxiell and Will Bynum are probably going to look to get paid. Monroe is fairly cheap, but he's one of the few long term deals they have and like you said, it's hard to figure out he's a guy you can make the centerpiece of your team. They're still losing games left and right, and probably end up at the bottom again. The question is if you can make them bite playing on their desperation if they decide to fully tank again.

well I am lucky enough to hang around former and actual players (mainly Vinnie the micro wave and Prince who btw is one of the coolest guy I saw) and imo they think the franchise wants to build around Drumond and Monroe, they also like a lot Maxiell but he is 29 y/o. I am not sure they are that high on a guy like Bynum. They are clearly looking for a nice draft pick next year but don't want to be embarrassed by a full tank mode, the arena is mostly empty and they need to fire up a bit the fans. Now if Maxiell is going to ask for too much they maybe will be interested by trading him.

[Manufan909]

Never say never, though... Both Diaw and Jack fell on our laps last season. Spurs have enough expirings in Bonner/Blair... possibly Jackson to take a look at some bottom-feeder teams and see if they can pry some guys off in exchange for cap relief. For example (and this might be a longshot), a guy like Greg Monroe in Detroit or Gortat in Phoenix.

Acquiring Monroe would be so improbable as to basically be impossible, but Gortat is someone to keep an eye on. Even as he's going through the motions, a la Boris in Charlotte, he's averaging 11/8 with 2 blocks whilst shooting 52%, iirc. From what I've gleaned reading Suns fans comments on this page: http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2012/12/7/3739614/phoenix-suns-to-change-lineup-again-beasley-out-whos-in, Gortat is acting like a petulant child because he isn't getting as many touches as he'd like.

I don't know if that negative will carry over to the Spurs, unless Pop allows him a long leash on offense. If Blair and Bonner are traded along with SJax to Phoenix for Gortat he'll get the touches he wants, and the Spurs frontline will become way better... At the expense of the SF position of course. The Spurs will feel the loss against OKC and MIA in the POs, but the Heat in particular will be incredibly vulnerable to a big trio of Timmy/Marcin/Tiago.

P.S. I haven't used the trade machine to see if my trade works, but as long as Leonard/Splitter/the Big 3/Nando aren't in the trade I'm happy. I'd prefer both Blair and Bonner be in the trade, but if it could only be one I'd prefer it be Bonner, if for no other reason than that Pop will at least sit Blair in the playoffs if he under performs in the POs. Blair is sucking more so far this season, but he's cheaper and on the last year of his contract.

[ElNono]

There's no circumstance where they salary dump Monroe at 4M next season. They have to meet minimum payroll and minimum roster spots. Monroe for less than the MLE is a bargain in NBA terms. If they do choose to move him, they'll get real assets in return.

You're probably right. I think they just had great expectations about Monroe and he hasn't (quite) delivered (yet), but I agree he's a cheap talent as it is.


well I am lucky enough to hang around former and actual players (mainly Vinnie the micro wave and Prince who btw is one of the coolest guy I saw) and imo they think the franchise wants to build around Drumond and Monroe, they also like a lot Maxiell but he is 29 y/o. I am not sure they are that high on a guy like Bynum. They are clearly looking for a nice draft pick next year but don't want to be embarrassed by a full tank mode, the arena is mostly empty and they need to fire up a bit the fans. Now if Maxiell is going to ask for too much they maybe will be interested by trading him.

The problem with Maxiell is what kind of raise he wants from the $5m he's making now. Do you go for him as just a rental until season's end? tbh, I like his hustle.

[Brazil]

You're probably right. I think they just had great expectations about Monroe and he hasn't delivered, but I agree he's a cheap talent as it is.



The problem with Maxiell is what kind of raise he wants from the $5m he's making now. Do you go for him as just a rental until season's end? tbh, I like his hustle.

I like Maxiell a lot, he is one the rare guys to fire up the Palace. He would be a great addition for the Spurs especially on the D end, his blocking capacity is very nice. As you said he is a perfect hustle player, he creates a lot of momentum for his team to turn around a game.

[objective]

timvp
Also, I don't think Pop is the type of coach that would let a player, who is worthy of getting playing time, rot on the bench. Do you think that eventually the Spurs will give one of these players an opportunity to succeed elsewhere? Moreover, who's skillset do you think they would value more?

Actually, Pop is exactly the type of coach who would let a player rot. He had Splitter rot his whole rookie year. He had George Hill rot behind Jacque Vaughn. There are other examples, but you get the point.

[SA210]

Actually, Pop is exactly the type of coach who would let a player rot. He had Splitter rot his whole rookie year. He had George Hill rot behind Jacque Vaughn. There are other examples, but you get the point.

[AFBlue]

While the comparisons between Nando and Manu are overblown, I believe that they apply with respect to Pop. His experience with Manu has made Nando's path a little easier. An earlier version of Pop would not have shown this much patience so early in Nando's NBA career.

Also, credit to Nando for being ready to take advantage of the opportunity presented with the injuries to Leonard and Jackson, much like Gary Neal was ready when Anderson went down two years ago. Now, the two of them will be competing for one spot in the rotation once Jackson and Leonard return.

Very good point about Manu paving the way for Nando's success. I think he does have a similar profile from a risk/reward perspective, though his ceiling isn't nearly as high. Maybe he'll make up for that by being more consistently available than Manu has been throughout his career.

[spurs10]

Great write-up! Your assessment of Nando, Bonner, Manu, and savoring these great times with Tim is a joy to read. It's amazing to me that we are playing like this without Jack and Kawhi. I suppose it's been a blessing in disguise, as we might not have witnessed this impressive Nando run.
The good news for me is I was working during the game last night and get to watch it today!
:flag::flag::flag:

[AFBlue]

We have too many guards and a somewhat suspect frontline, if we don't trade for size and at least try to get someone better than Blair than I'd think the FO is not even trying. Not saying it's easy but doesn't seem like it's mission impossible either, doesn't have to be a star at all to make us better.

If Blair's replacement isn't better than Splitter or Diaw, then it isn't worth trading excess guard depth because that player wouldn't sniff the court in the post-season. You'd essentially be trading one "minute-eater" for another and losing depth in the process.

[TD 21]

I don't think De Colo will gain trade value this season. Maybe by the offseason.

I tend to agree. Once they get/stay healthy, he won't be in the rotation and even if he continues playing well in snippets, that's probably not going to alter his trade value much, if at all. Neal, on the other hand, has legit trade value, so if they're confident in De Colo/Mills replacing him in tandem, they could part with him.


I don't think the Jazz do that. I don't think the Spurs would jump at that either. Millsap has a history of fading late in seasons and doesn't really fit great passing-wise or defense-wise. Having a PF that can be guarded pretty easily by a SF doesn't strike me as the missing ingredient. It'd amount to an expensive couple month rental that may not even offer an upgrade in retrospect.

I think they might. But I'm more interested in whether the Spurs would do it.

It's not that Millsap is necessarily the missing ingredient, it's that he's probably the best they can realistically do, because the Varejao ship has sailed. And it wouldn't be a rental; the idea would be to re-sign him to something like a 4 year/$40-44M contract. It might seem pricey, but they'll have the flexibility to offer it and they're not doing better in free agency.

[biskvito]

I think Bonner had an epiphany when Anderson Varejao became an All Star candidate.

[AFBlue]

I don't care what lights go on for Bonner. He has a long, consistent history of disappearing in the playoffs. Making him a part of the rotation again, no matter how well he plays, is a mistake. Being dependent on Bonner to win is suicide for this team.

Fools Gold.

Win what? If the guy contributes points/boards during the season keeping the likes of Duncan, Splitter and Diaw fresh by eating up minutes then what's the harm? I don't think anyone is saying this is the Bonner we'll see in the playoffs, but it shouldn't be viewed as anything but a positive IMO.

[Obstructed_View]

Glad they're rebounding well, and I'm glad they're shooting well. Not so sure that 34 3PA is something you want to get used to long-term, but they're just buying time until they get the whole team back together.

[maverick1948]

When I see De Colo now, I wonder if his early struggle were really related to basketball.
How is/was his English? Could he get everything Pop was saying?
He looked so shy... which is really uncharacteristic of is game (he was really a leader in Europe)... and now he looks so confident.

If getting orders from Pop in english was a problem, Tony and Boris could tell him in french. After all, they have played together before. When he is on the court with Tiago, they look good in the pick and roll. I think his early problems dealt more with finding his spot on the team. He had no idea what he would be called on to do. After the preseason, he started stepping up his game and now he is ready for backup duties. On question, last night, in the 4th quarter, what position was Nando playing? Would you believe some of it was at SF. With Mills and Joseph on the court at the guard position, Nando had to be at the 3.

[Darius McCrary]

LOL, nalgas

[therealtruth]

Actually, Pop is exactly the type of coach who would let a player rot. He had Splitter rot his whole rookie year. He had George Hill rot behind Jacque Vaughn. There are other examples, but you get the point.

Pop tends to have misplaced loyalties and ideas about fairness which you can't do if you're trying to win.

[DPG21920]

Glad they're rebounding well, and I'm glad they're shooting well. Not so sure that 34 3PA is something you want to get used to long-term, but they're just buying time until they get the whole team back together.

That's one of the many encouraging things though to me so far - with removing Bonner from the rotation, Spurs 3 point shooting would natrually take a hit. Yet they are still finding ways to win games even when they aren't hitting 3's. I definitely want the 3 point shooting to be more consistent (which with Manu rounding into form it likely will), but it's nice to see them winning despite taking a hit from 3 point land so far.

Also, I know a few have mentioned it but this has been an incredibly fun season so far. So many great things, games and moments. The team is starting to gel and morph and it's incredible how Pop has found essentially boundless combinations of players and how everyone is having their moments. This team is so different from last year's regular season team yet every bit as capable of winnig a ton of games. It's awesome to watch.

[racm]

The team is winning games even without the 3 ball falling because of the improved defense. When the Spurs hit 3s the 4th quarter is already garbage time.

[Mark in Austin]

Win what? If the guy contributes points/boards during the season keeping the likes of Duncan, Splitter and Diaw fresh by eating up minutes then what's the harm? I don't think anyone is saying this is the Bonner we'll see in the playoffs, but it shouldn't be viewed as anything but a positive IMO.

Winning is a habit. It's incredibly difficult to have a set rotation throughout the season that has to be changed come playoff time because Bonner can't perform the same way in the post season.

[SenorSpur]

I agree with everything mentioned - even Bonner's resurgence. While he's been rebounding very well, I still see too many instance where he stands around, forgets to put a body on an opposing player and allows for an offensive rebound and putback by an opposing player.

[Splits]

Winning is a habit. It's incredibly difficult to have a set rotation throughout the season that has to be changed come playoff time because Bonner can't perform the same way in the post season.

Except that's not what is happening this year. Bonner's role has been limited to pace-changer or garbage time basically. With Jack out he plays a little bit more and sometimes in the first half, but that seems to be only because we're not full strength.

[Darkwaters]

Hmmm ... that's a good question. Between De Colo, Mills and CJ, the one with the most valuable skillset is probably De Colo. His vision and passing abilities can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. We'll see if he can keep up this level of play once the NBA gets a scouting report on him but as of this second, his skillset is the one that stands out as most unique and thus most valuable.

Even more intriguing, De Colo is a big PG at 6'5 and could easily create mismatches against other teams. It also allows the Spurs to consistently play an undersized SG next to him (in the mold of Patty Mills or even De Colo's draft class comrade, the player formerly known as Jack McClinton).

I really like De Colo. He might not be fully ready yet, but hes picking it up quickly.

If both De Colo and Cory Joe fulfill their potential and grow at this same rate into next year, it could make for an interesting rotation clog next season (and would probably encourage Mills and Neal to walk).

[Slippy]

Tiago's defense since getting here is the best it's ever been. From rotations, positioning, to simply
helping out teammates and altering shots. He's doing it all.

He's also running the floor better than before.

[Fireball]

The team is winning games even without the 3 ball falling because of the improved defense. When the Spurs hit 3s the 4th quarter is already garbage time.

Agreed ... the defense is still pretty good although Kawhi and SJax are out. Statistic defensive categories just take a blow in the 4th quarter because of our recent blowout victories ...

[racm]

Agreed ... the defense is still pretty good although Kawhi and SJax are out. Statistic defensive categories just take a blow in the 4th quarter because of our recent blowout victories ...

And the Spurs are still 4th in defensive rating, 3rd in eFG%, and 3rd in FT/FGA. They don't let opponents get good shots and they don't foul a lot.

[Fireball]

And the Spurs are still 4th in defensive rating, 3rd in eFG%, and 3rd in FT/FGA. They don't let opponents get good shots and they don't foul a lot.

Sounds very good. Are they still fouling at the low rate of earlier seasons? I have the feeling that they foul a bit more because they are trying to play a more physical brand of basketball (which is fine by me) ...

[racm]

Even more intriguing, De Colo is a big PG at 6'5 and could easily create mismatches against other teams. It also allows the Spurs to consistently play an undersized SG next to him (in the mold of Patty Mills or even De Colo's draft class comrade, the player formerly known as Jack McClinton).

I really like De Colo. He might not be fully ready yet, but hes picking it up quickly.

If both De Colo and Cory Joe fulfill their potential and grow at this same rate into next year, it could make for an interesting rotation clog next season (and would probably encourage Mills and Neal to walk).

It's a lot like the setup Dallas ran with Kidd and Terry. Kidd was the PG who would bring up the ball but would often lurk out on the three point line while Terry attacked as the second option. On defense they switched roles with Kidd guarding the SG. It's also the system New York runs right now, although Kidd is playing next to a real PG in Felton.


Sounds very good. Are they still fouling at the low rate of earlier seasons? I have the feeling that they foul a bit more because they are trying to play a more physical brand of basketball (which is fine by me) ...

In team seasons they're third-lowest in opposing FT/FGA. The lowest opposing FT/FGA season for the entire Spurs franchise? 2011-12. In other words they're playing more physical than last season but are still good at not fouling.

[Fireball]

Thanks racm ...

[Captivus]

Are there any chances that Kiwi and Jax start at the bench when they return?
I mean, the team is playing good, and having those 2 plus Manu entering for the second unit doesnt seem crazy to me (it could be).
Maybe at first this will happen, but eventually they will start. Still, i would like to see that happen.
Parker - Neal - Green - Diaw - Duncan
DeColo - Manu - Kiwi - Jax - Tiago
Is that even possible?? Maybe i would swap Kiwi for Neal...

[racm]

Jax at the backup 4 would be great against OKC.

[Boomersgold]

Are there any chances that Kiwi and Jax start at the bench when they return?
I mean, the team is playing good, and having those 2 plus Manu entering for the second unit doesnt seem crazy to me (it could be).
Maybe at first this will happen, but eventually they will start. Still, i would like to see that happen.
Parker - Neal - Green - Diaw - Duncan
DeColo - Manu - Kiwi - Jax - Tiago
Is that even possible?? Maybe i would swap Kiwi for Neal...

I'd be really surprised if De Colo beats Neal for the backup pg spot.

[Cry Havoc]

I'd be really surprised if De Colo beats Neal for the backup pg spot.

Why? Neal is NOT a PG. He's just been stuck there as a placeholder because he's an undersized 2 and we haven't had anyone else to run the point since TJ retired, who was likely to be our backup for a while.

[Obstructed_View]

That's one of the many encouraging things though to me so far - with removing Bonner from the rotation, Spurs 3 point shooting would natrually take a hit. Yet they are still finding ways to win games even when they aren't hitting 3's. I definitely want the 3 point shooting to be more consistent (which with Manu rounding into form it likely will), but it's nice to see them winning despite taking a hit from 3 point land so far.

Also, I know a few have mentioned it but this has been an incredibly fun season so far. So many great things, games and moments. The team is starting to gel and morph and it's incredible how Pop has found essentially boundless combinations of players and how everyone is having their moments. This team is so different from last year's regular season team yet every bit as capable of winnig a ton of games. It's awesome to watch.

I think some of you guys misunderstand what I said. I'm concerned about the number of three-point attempts, not the percentage. The low percentage comes from jacking up so many, because there simply aren't 30 quality looks from three point range in a typical NBA game. I don't mind that they're doing it now, but as they get the team together and round into form for a playoff run, we should be worried if they're still shooting threes that aren't generated from a dominant inside game.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd be really surprised if De Colo beats Neal for the backup pg spot.

At some point your viewpoints need to adapt based on changes that you see. Sticking to the same opinion you held a month ago no longer makes a ton of sense.

[Mel_13]

I think some of you guys misunderstand what I said. I'm concerned about the number of three-point attempts, not the percentage. The low percentage comes from jacking up so many, because there simply aren't 30 quality looks from three point range in a typical NBA game. I don't mind that they're doing it now, but as they get the team together and round into form for a playoff run, we should be worried if they're still shooting threes that aren't generated from a dominant inside game.

Just for context. The Spurs have topped 30 3p attempts twice this season, against Charlotte and Miami. Not coincidentally, those two teams give up the most 3PAs per game, and by quite a margin over the third place team in that category.

[Paranoid Pop]

At some point your viewpoints need to adapt based on changes that you see. Sticking to the same opinion you held a month ago no longer makes a ton of sense.

You can't take Neal out of the rotation, it's that simple, either we trade him or we play him, he's too valuable.

[Boomersgold]

At some point your viewpoints need to adapt based on changes that you see. Sticking to the same opinion you held a month ago no longer makes a ton of sense.

No shit, sherlock. As the season goes on, we as the fans get to see more of the new Spurs players. Players that didn't get much playing time in the first few games, get more minutes, therefore giving us something to base our opinions on. Sticking to the same opinions that I had a month ago doesn't make a lick of sense....

Having seen De Colo play some meaningful minutes, it's not that hard to see that he's a pass-first point guard, one that tries to get his teammates involved. He's really shown some improvement over the last few games. That being said, Pop isn't going to leave a player of Neal's caliber on the bench. It wouldn't make any sense.

[Obstructed_View]

Just for context. The Spurs have topped 30 3p attempts twice this season, against Charlotte and Miami. Not coincidentally, those two teams give up the most 3PAs per game, and by quite a margin over the third place team in that category.

True, but they shot 29 against the Knicks, and they've been in the mid to high 20s a number of times. I don't know where they rank for three point attempts as a team, but it sure feels like an awful lot for a Spurs team.

[Obstructed_View]

You can't take Neal out of the rotation, it's that simple, either we trade him or we play him, he's too valuable.

I agree with that, but I also agree with the folks who say that he's not really a backup point guard, he's more like a short version of J Crawford. You bring him in and let him score when you need points. That's a weapon that you can insert into the game at any point. De Colo is making a case as a more reliable guy to run your offense.

[Obstructed_View]

Having seen De Colo play some meaningful minutes, it's not that hard to see that he's a pass-first point guard, one that tries to get his teammates involved. He's really shown some improvement over the last few games. That being said, Pop isn't going to leave a player of Neal's caliber on the bench. It wouldn't make any sense.

Agreed. Leaving Neal on the bench would be a huge mistake, but he doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be the backup point guard to get his minutes. Let him do what he does. Hell, I think we can all agree that he might pair up pretty well on the floor with De Colo running the offense and Gary just getting his points.

[Mel_13]

True, but they shot 29 against the Knicks, and they've been in the mid to high 20s a number of times. I don't know where they rank for three point attempts as a team, but it sure feels like an awful lot for a Spurs team.

They're currently 8th in the NBA at 22.3 3PA/G. League average is 19.5.

Last season they were 7th at 21.3 3PA/G. League average was 18.4.

Not alarming numbers, IMO.

[Boomersgold]

Agreed. Leaving Neal on the bench would be a huge mistake, but he doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be the backup point guard to get his minutes. Let him do what he does. Hell, I think we can all agree that he might pair up pretty well on the floor with De Colo running the offense and Gary just getting his points.

Agreed, but for Neal to be on the court, he'd have to play the pg spot. The SG spot will be taken by Manu and SF by Jacks.

[Cry Havoc]

You can't take Neal out of the rotation, it's that simple, either we trade him or we play him, he's too valuable.

Neal is great to have as a resource for when the rest of the team isn't clicking offensively. Both him and Jax step on the court and give instant offense. Neal's defense has improved, but in the playoffs he's going to be more situationally used if the team keeps clicking like this. He definitely warrants lots of minutes in the regular season when teams aren't going to exploit every matchup for points, though.

[Cry Havoc]

Agreed. Leaving Neal on the bench would be a huge mistake, but he doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be the backup point guard to get his minutes. Let him do what he does. Hell, I think we can all agree that he might pair up pretty well on the floor with De Colo running the offense and Gary just getting his points.

Neal and De Colo would not be a combination that would work against contenders in the playoffs. Too much defensive liability. Great for regular season games, though.

[Obstructed_View]

Agreed, but for Neal to be on the court, he'd have to play the pg spot. The SG spot will be taken by Manu and SF by Jacks.

I don't think that's an absolute requirement. If you're using Neal as a gunner for instant points, he can play anywhere. If you use him for certain situations, you don't give the other team any time to adjust. And Manu can run the point on the floor with him as well.

[Mel_13]

I don't think that's an absolute requirement. If you're using Neal as a gunner for instant points, he can play anywhere. If you use him for certain situations, you don't give the other team any time to adjust. And Manu can run the point on the floor with him as well.

His point was that you couldn't play Neal and De Colo together unless you went to an 11 man rotation or removed someone, likely Green, from the rotation. Assuming a completely healthy team, of course.

[Obstructed_View]

Neal and De Colo would not be a combination that would work against contenders in the playoffs. Too much defensive liability. Great for regular season games, though.

Depends on the matchup, which you'd have to exploit. You wouldn't trot them out against a potent starting guard rotation that could kill them with both size and speed, and maybe you avoid it altogether with certain teams like the Clippers that can put Bledsoe and Billups out there. But with Duncan and Jack and Kawhi all playing good defense, you could get out and run against almost anyone if the situation calls for it.

[Obstructed_View]

His point was that you couldn't play Neal and De Colo together unless you went to an 11 man rotation or removed someone, likely Green, from the rotation. Assuming a completely healthy team, of course.

So if the choice is having to cover for Neal's deficiencies or just not have his offense at all, you choose the former. I'm okay with that. I hate the idea of making him a point guard just because he's the same size as a point guard, though. I'm sure you guys do too. I'd rather you just sub him to go at the weakest guy of the other team's five of whatever position and count on him to murder them on the mismatch, though that's probably not realistic.

And the depth of this team makes it odd to talk about stuff like this, because I'm simply not used to the Spurs having to remove good players in order to have a shortened rotation. It's kind of a new reality to deal with.

[Mel_13]

So if the choice is having to cover for Neal's deficiencies or just not have his offense at all, you choose the former. I'm okay with that. I hate the idea of making him a point guard just because he's the same size as a point guard, though. I'm sure you guys do too. I'd rather you just sub him to go at the weakest guy of the other team's five of whatever position and count on him to murder them on the mismatch, though that's probably not realistic.

I understand your point, but I don't see it as that cut and dried. I don't believe Pop does, either.

[Cry Havoc]

And the depth of this team makes it odd to talk about stuff like this, because I'm simply not used to the Spurs having to remove good players in order to have a shortened rotation. It's kind of a new reality to deal with.

It's really odd. This might be the deepest NBA team in recent memory. We could throw any of about 15 lineups against other teams and they have to deal with it. Considering Manu can slot up to the point anytime, it's insane the number of mismatches we could have.

[Cry Havoc]

So if the choice is having to cover for Neal's deficiencies or just not have his offense at all, you choose the former.

Depends on the situation. If we're rolling on offense already, there's no reason to bring Neal on the court unless he's already been hustling on D for a while and the matchup is not a horrible size disparity.

[Mel_13]

And the depth of this team makes it odd to talk about stuff like this, because I'm simply not used to the Spurs having to remove good players in order to have a shortened rotation. It's kind of a new reality to deal with.

You added this after I posted, but this is exactly what I was referring with regards to a decision between Neal and De Colo. It will not be an easy or obvious one to make.

[Obstructed_View]

I understand your point, but I don't see it as that cut and dried. I don't believe Pop does, either.

If the reality is to shorten the rotation and give everyone minutes, choices have to be made. I simply hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it. I really like the idea of inserting role players in for a few minutes and letting them go, but I'm a fan on a message board. Even Jaren Jackson got 20 minutes a game in the playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

Depends on the situation. If we're rolling on offense already, there's no reason to bring Neal on the court unless he's already been hustling on D for a while and the matchup is not a horrible size disparity.

The idea of just being able to say "Gary, go in the game for Splitter, score 10 points on Enes Kanter in the next three minutes" is appealing. Again, no idea if it's realistic. Duncan being lively and having a return to defense makes it more possible than in recent years.

[Mel_13]

If the reality is to shorten the rotation and give everyone minutes, choices have to be made. I simply hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it. I really like the idea of inserting role players in for a few minutes and letting them go, but I'm a fan on a message board. Even Jaren Jackson got 20 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Jackson was the 6th man on the 99 team. We're talking about two guys fighting for spots 10 and 11 in the rotation.

[Obstructed_View]

Jackson was the 6th man on the 99 team. We're talking about two guys fighting for spots 10 and 11 in the rotation.

While you're correct, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration both ways simply due to the different situations. The starters play way fewer minutes and have what's basically a sixth starter coming off the bench now. JJ played in almost a seven man rotation in the '99 playoffs, but he was more a role player than true sixth man, if that makes any sense. :). Gary's minutes, numbers and impact are very like what I remember JJ providing in '99.

We are talking about two guys fighting for the backup point guard position, and this discussion is suggesting one at the exclusion of the other come playoff time. Even with this team's depth, I'm not sure players 10 and 11 get more than garbage minutes.

[Mel_13]

While you're correct, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration both ways simply due to the different situations. The starters play way fewer minutes and have what's basically a sixth starter coming off the bench now. JJ played in almost a seven man rotation in the '99 playoffs, but he was more a role player than true sixth man, if that makes any sense. :). Gary's minutes, numbers and impact are very like what I remember JJ providing in '99.

We are talking about two guys fighting for the backup point guard position, and this discussion is suggesting one at the exclusion of the other come playoff time. Even with this team's depth, I'm not sure players 10 and 11 get more than garbage minutes.

If Gary loses the backup PG gig, then there's no way he can play the JJ role, or any role really, in this year's playoffs. Also, I thought the discussion was about who would be the backup PG once Leonard and Jack return to the rotation. I assume that the guy that gets the job will keep it throughout the playoffs and that the guy that loses the battle will only see garbage time in the playoffs.

[Cry Havoc]

If Gary loses the backup PG gig, then there's no way he can play the JJ role, or any role really, in this year's playoffs.

Why is that? There are several WC teams he could play against in the playoffs for significant minutes.

[Mel_13]

Why is that? There are several WC teams he could play against in the playoffs for significant minutes.

Simple.

Assuming a healthy roster, Neal can't get significant minutes at SG unless the Spurs expand the rotation to 11 players or one of the players ahead of him in the SG rotation, likely Green, loses his minutes.

[Obstructed_View]

If Gary loses the backup PG gig, then there's no way he can play the JJ role, or any role really, in this year's playoffs.
I completely disagree, though minutes may dictate otherwise. He's not a point guard, and shouldn't be one. I commend him for handling the job far better than Roger Mason did, but there are minutes to find for a player who's not only instant offense, but an instant mismatch right off the bench. A point guard's job is to know when to run, know when to slow it down, and to know how to get the best shot for his teammates.


Also, I thought the discussion was about who would be the backup PG once Leonard and Jack return to the rotation. I assume that the guy that gets the job will keep it throughout the playoffs and that the guy that loses the battle will only see garbage time in the playoffs.
Okay, but that's not "two guys fighting for spots 10 and 11 in the rotation", which is all I was suggesting. Rotations shorten in the playoffs. If it's one at the exclusion of the other as you said, then backup point will be one of nine guys in the rotation, right?

[Obstructed_View]

Simple.

Assuming a healthy roster, Neal can't get significant minutes at SG unless the Spurs expand the rotation to 11 players or one of the players ahead of him in the SG rotation, likely Green, loses his minutes.

You're assuming that the Spurs run no small lineups or utilize Neal as a role player. We already know Pop likes to do one of those.

[Mel_13]

I completely disagree, though minutes may dictate otherwise.

The minutes do dictate otherwise.




Okay, but that's not "two guys fighting for spots 10 and 11 in the rotation", which is all I was suggesting. Rotations shorten in the playoffs. If it's one at the exclusion of the other as you said, then backup point will be one of nine guys in the rotation, right?

I won't argue semantics with you. It may have been more precise to simply say "two guys fighting for one spot in the rotation". And I certainly agree with highlighted part. I'm not sure what I could have said that led you to believe I thought otherwise.

[Mel_13]

You're assuming that the Spurs run no small lineups or utilize Neal as a role player. We already know Pop likes to do one of those.

No, I'm not.

[Obstructed_View]

No, I'm not.

You are if you automatically assume that a 2 guard loses a minute for each one Gary neal gains.

[Obstructed_View]

I won't argue semantics with you. It may have been more precise to simply say "two guys fighting for one spot in the rotation". And I certainly agree with highlighted part. I'm not sure what I could have said that led you to believe I thought otherwise.

You were minimizing the role of the backup point guard in order to contrast further from Jaren Jackson's "sixth man" role, which I thought was unnecessary.

[Mel_13]

You are if you automatically assume that a 2 guard loses a minute for each one Gary neal gains.


You were minimizing the role of the backup point guard in order to contrast further from Jaren Jackson's "sixth man" role, which I thought was unnecessary.

You're making all kinds of assumptions about what I mean. These two, for example, are not at all what I meant.

I've made my points. If they're not clear to you, I apologize for the confusion.

[Paranoid Pop]

Besides having a passing point guard next to a passing SG may not give us the best balance. If you think about handing back up PG to De Colo then you may have to think about starting Manu (and about trading one of Green/Neal for a better PF than Blair).

[will_spurs]

There's indeed always the possibility to run a small ball lineup and take minutes away from Bonner or Blair, depending on matchups. But it's very situational and can'tbe called a rotation.

[Brunodf]

Besides having a passing point guard next to a passing SG may not give us the best balance. If you think about handing back up PG to De Colo then you may have to think about starting Manu (and about trading one of Green/Neal for a better PF than Blair).

[boutons_deux]

Wonderful basketball is when the big sprints down and trails on the break and is rewarded with a layup. Encourages more of the same

[SequSpur]

nandecolo sucks....so does bonner....wtf? did you start smoking weed?

[Obstructed_View]

You're making all kinds of assumptions about what I mean. These two, for example, are not at all what I meant.

I've made my points. If they're not clear to you, I apologize for the confusion.

Since you said more than once that Gary Neal's minutes will take away from Danny Green's minutes, and you said the backup point guard is the 10th man in the rotation, I apologize for not being able to figure out what you mean if it's something other than what you typed.

Pop runs smallball lineups, and Gary Neal can be inserted into those with no loss of minutes for Danny Green. Rotations are pre-determined, and role players come in when needed. I'd prefer Gary Neal be a role player, and De Colo be a rotation player. Best of both worlds. I stand by that.

[ElNono]

I think Neal would need to play really bad (and I mean *really* bad) and De Colo extremely well for De Colo to get the backup PG spot in the playoffs. People forget Pop has his veteran pecking order when it comes to that (see Hill, Splitter).

[z0sa]

Matty B trollin ST lately tbh

[Mel_13]

Pop runs smallball lineups, and Gary Neal can be inserted into those with no loss of minutes for Danny Green. Rotations are pre-determined, and role players come in when needed. I'd prefer Gary Neal be a role player, and De Colo be a rotation player. Best of both worlds. I stand by that.

Then he can't play the Jaren Jackson role from 99, as Jackson was clearly a rotation player. Which was what I said, in various ways, from the outset.

[Obstructed_View]

Then he can't play the Jaren Jackson role from 99, as Jackson was clearly a rotation player. Which was what I said, in various ways, from the outset.

Too bad you think Gary Neal can't hit three pointers. I wash my hands of your idiot takes.

[Mel_13]

Too bad you think Gary Neal can't hit three pointers. I wash my hands of your idiot takes.

Likewise. You contradict yourself, intentionally misstate the positions of others, and then reduce yourself to personal insults. Whatever works for you.

[Man In Black]

Pop has the best Swiss Army Knife of players he has had since 2003. We always hear Bill and Sean talking about how Pop shuffles the deck to find a group of players to address whatever it is he needs to get accomplished. Danny Green and Gary Neal are tools in that Knife. Pop can go conventional and unconventional. If he pulls minutes from Danny because he is looking for something from Gary, that ain't unusual. To say Rotation Player, while proper in basketball terms, is to discredit the depth of this strong bench and to minimize the vast intellect that Pop has as a Coach.

Each player has a defined role but with some players, those defined roles are expanded, due to their skill set and to Pop's terminology. In a nutshell, Pop really doesn't use positions like Small Forward, Shooting Guard, Center, Power Forward. If you are Point Guard, then you are a Lead Guard. If you are a Shooting Guard or Small Forward, then you are a Wing. If you are a Center or a Power Forward, you are simply a Post. There are players like Manu, who are primarily Wings, but have lead guard skills. TP is the other way around, primarily a Lead but with Wing Skills. Gary Neal and Danny Green are Wings and their strengths differ. We all can agree that Gary is the better shooter but Danny is the better defender. Situational matchups would then define for Pop what he needs. If he needed 1 or both or neither on the court at that time.

This is like Dutch Soccer's Total Football mentality which is defined as there are no set positions and ANY player can join in on an attack. Pop's Swiss-Army "Total Basketball" has set roles based on skill set but for a period, for certain minutes or situations or just 1 play, ANY PLAYER CAN BE POP'S ATTACK DOG.

The mantra for the Spurs is get over yourself. I'm sure that most of the players on this team are wholly supportive of their roles. While some may grumble, Pop's Alpha Dog mentality will correct them straight.