Manning the greatest?

[johnsmith]

If he wins another MVP, regardless of what the broncos do in the playoffs, is he then the greatest qb of all time?

[kamikazi_player]

He's the greatest already in my book

[HI-FI]

Montana is always my favorite but I think Manning is very close to being the greatest. I've never seen a QB command the game like him. Going to the Broncos, he's proven that no matter what team he's on or who is his coach, he'll still get it done. Not that Broncos are a bad team, they're talented, but for Manning to be playing this well in a totally new environment and system is amazing.

[scanry]

I still have Montana & Brady over Manning. However what he has done with the Broncos is amazing.

[Raven]

I still have Montana & Brady over Manning. However what he has done with the Broncos is amazing.

they were a play off team with tim tebow..

[KoolAid Mans Brother]

I don't understand how someone with a 9-10 postseason record and only 1 Superbowl win can even be in the conversation of "greatest". Is Manning great? Of course. Is he the GOAT?

If you think that a .473 winning percentage in games that matter qualifies you to be the "Greatest QB of All Time", then I guess you can agree that Manning fits the bill. I don't. For me, greatness is measured by postseason success and championships.

[stretch]

I don't understand how someone with a 9-10 postseason record and only 1 Superbowl win can even be in the conversation of "greatest". Is Manning great? Of course. Is he the GOAT?

If you think that a .473 winning percentage in games that matter qualifies you to be the "Greatest QB of All Time", then I guess you can agree that Manning fits the bill. I don't. For me, greatness is measured by postseason success and championships.

The fact that Manning consistently had those Colts teams in contention is a testament to his greatness. His teams consistently had AWFUL defenses (that occasionally put up misleading defensive stats, thanks heavily to Peyton manufacturing points so easily), and the one year that their defense was actually just decent, they won a superbowl.

He had a few poor playoff games (as does everyone, even Brady and Montana), but certainly more good ones than bad ones. The reason why Brady and Montana was able to win games even on bad days? Their defenses carried them. But if Peyton had a bad day? It was a guaranteed loss because they relied on him entirely too much. Imagine if the Patriots defense was as bad as the Colts were all these years. Does Brady have those three rings? All you have to do is look at the last two Superbowls they lost. Their defense was crap, and the team relied too much on Brady. When you rely that much on a QB, you are asking for trouble.

FWIW, I think Manning and Brady are 1a/1b as the greatest QBs ever. I personally would take Manning, although I fully understand why someone would take Brady. I think they are pretty much a deadlock though. Together, they revolutionized the QB position, and perhaps football in general. We should really appreciate what we have seen, as I feel it will be remembered as the "Magic/Bird" rivalry of football.

[Avante]

Can make a very real case for Otto Graham who won...10....NFL Championships and was by far the greatest QB ever in his era and before, not even debatable at all.

In my opininon it's Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning, Manning will replace Favre soon. We cannot ignore Favres longevity at the top and his amazing stats.

Montana had it all, the total package and a winner as is Brady. Manning has to win more than one SB to be put on their level.

[johnsmith]

Can make a very real case for Otto Graham who won...10....NFL Championships and was by far the greatest QB ever in his era and before, not even debatable at all.

In my opininon it's Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning, Manning will replace Favre soon. We cannot ignore Favres longevity at the top and his amazing stats.

Montana had it all, the total package and a winner as is Brady. Manning has to win more than one SB to be put on their level.

Your opinion doesn't matter, stay the fuck out of my thread.

[LnGrrrR]

I agree that Manning/Brady will be similar to Bird/Magic discussions in history. They both have a few stories left to tell, though.

[johnsmith]

Elway is still number one in my book....his stats aren't as intimidating, but dude was a beast all the time.

[Avante]

The top 10 in my opinion

1.Joe Montana
2.Tom Brady
3.Peyton Manning....he's going to surpass Favre
4.Brett Favre
5.John Elway
6.Dan Marino
7.Drew Brees
8.Otto Graham
9.John Unitas
10.FranTarkenton

[johnsmith]

I agree that Manning/Brady will be similar to Bird/Magic discussions in history. They both have a few stories left to tell, though.

But Brady has been pretty dominant in the rivalry.

[johnsmith]

The top 10 in my opinion

1.Joe Montana
2.Tom Brady
3.Peyton Manning....he's going to surpass Favre
4.Brett Favre
5.John Elway
6.Dan Marino
7.Drew Brees
8.Otto Graham
9.John Unitas
10.FranTarkenton

No one gives a fuck, get out of the thread.

[DD]

Joe Cool

[tlongII]

Can make a very real case for Otto Graham who won...10....NFL Championships and was by far the greatest QB ever in his era and before, not even debatable at all.

In my opininon it's Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning, Manning will replace Favre soon. We cannot ignore Favres longevity at the top and his amazing stats.

Montana had it all, the total package and a winner as is Brady. Manning has to win more than one SB to be put on their level.

No he didn't! Where do you come up with this stuff? Graham won 3 NFL championships and lost 3 NFL championships. Prior to that he played in the AAFC and he won 4 league championships there.

[JoeTait75]

Elway is still number one in my book....his stats aren't as intimidating, but dude was a beast all the time.

There have been better quarterbacks statistically, but in my experience no one was scarier than Elway in the last two minutes of a game. Physically he was capable of anything, and he just loved the big moments. He tormented the Browns back in the day, but you had to respect him because he was such a gamer.

Thing about Manning and Montana, though, is that they make it look so easy. When they're on it's as if they're playing Madden on rookie mode.

[Lincoln]

Is Brady a system QB tho? We all saw what the great Matt Cassel did in that offense

[Lincoln]

Brady has also had a great offensive line, he gets so much time back there.

I agree with the 1a/1b statement tho. I was too young to see Montana play

[DD]

Is Brady a system QB tho? We all saw what the great Matt Cassel did in that offense

Miss the playoffs with a stacked team?

[Lincoln]

They won 11 or 12 games IIRC and cassell put up some nice numbers I think. I'll have to check later

[johnsmith]

Brady has also had a great offensive line, he gets so much time back there.

I agree with the 1a/1b statement tho. I was too young to see Montana play

When you're in your early 30's, more and more often, someone will say something that makes you start to realize that you're getting old.....This was one of those times for me.

Conversing with someone that was too young to have watched Montana is fucking weird to me.

[Lincoln]

When you're in your early 30's, more and more often, someone will say something that makes you start to realize that you're getting old.....This was one of those times for me.

Conversing with someone that was too young to have watched Montana is fucking weird to me.

I just turned 19 last week lol

[johnsmith]

I just turned 19 last week lol

It will happen to you too. It blew my mind last week when Bo Jackson turned 50. I remember when the dude just came into the league.

[stretch]

But Brady has been pretty dominant in the rivalry.

Brady usually also had the better team in the rivalry, much like Magic generally "dominated" their rivalry, but he usually had the better team.

Bird>Magic imo

[DD]

They won 11 or 12 games IIRC and cassell put up some nice numbers I think. I'll have to check later

Yeah that's nice and all, but he had an undefeated team to play with and lost the division to Chad Pennigton and the Dolphins. To put that in perspective, it's the only time in the last decade (2012 included) that the Patriots didn't win the division. That was also the only Dolphins playoff berth since 2001.

[HI-FI]

Yeah that's nice and all, but he had an undefeated team to play with and lost the division to Chad Pennigton and the Dolphins. To put that in perspective, it's the only time in the last decade (2012 included) that the Patriots didn't win the division. That was also the only Dolphins playoff berth since 2001.
ah shit DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt fucking Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are fucking geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

[LnGrrrR]

ah shit DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt fucking Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are fucking geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

:lol A system QB that has won at least 10 games in a row for pretty much a decade. Too bad the rest of the NFL hasn't caught on to this "system".

[HI-FI]

:lol A system QB that has won at least 10 games in a row for pretty much a decade. Too bad the rest of the NFL hasn't caught on to this "system".
Matt fucking Cassell steps into said system and goes 11-5. Teams have tried to duplicate the Patriot Way and all these Patriot coaches end up blowing. The constants are Belichick, Adams and Brady. So Brady deserves his share of props, no doubt, but even when he plays like garbage, Patriots still end up winning some big games. I was confident before that Manning could produce anywhere, I'm not so sure with Brady. He's smart though, he'll hang with Belichick as long as possible. The fact they could have success with a 6th rounder, then a 7th rounder, shows the system was bigger than a single player (Belichick's own words btw).

[LnGrrrR]

Matt fucking Cassell steps into said system and goes 11-5. Teams have tried to duplicate the Patriot Way and all these Patriot coaches end up blowing. The constants are Belichick, Adams and Brady. So Brady deserves his share of props, no doubt, but even when he plays like garbage, Patriots still end up winning some big games. I was confident before that Manning could produce anywhere, I'm not so sure with Brady. He's smart though, he'll hang with Belichick as long as possible. The fact they could have success with a 6th rounder, then a 7th rounder, shows the system was bigger than a single player (Belichick's own words btw).

Yes, which was a 5 game dropoff. That's pretty large actually. Especially when the 16-0 team set all kinds of offensive records.

And if you look at Manning's record, he's had a lot of garbage games too. Heck, the only reason he has a ring is because the Indy defense stepped it up in the playoffs. And exactly what offensive system do they have in place? The one in 2002-2006, which was mostly dink and dunk, play action and screens? Or the one from 2007-2010 or so, which focused on protection and long bombs? Or the one now, that focuses on the 2 TE set? Which offensive system has been in place for a decade plus in New England?

[HI-FI]

Yes, which was a 5 game dropoff. That's pretty large actually. Especially when the 16-0 team set all kinds of offensive records.

And if you look at Manning's record, he's had a lot of garbage games too. Heck, the only reason he has a ring is because the Indy defense stepped it up in the playoffs. And exactly what offensive system do they have in place? The one in 2002-2006, which was mostly dink and dunk, play action and screens? Or the one from 2007-2010 or so, which focused on protection and long bombs? Or the one now, that focuses on the 2 TE set? Which offensive system has been in place for a decade plus in New England?
their offense has evolved, which is a credit to Belichick once again. He saw the rule changes and has changed the team based on the lineups, the matchups etc...That team can do so much. Credit to Brady for evolving with it, especially since he started out as a simple game manager, but had he gone to another team, I doubt he would've had the support system to evolve into an elite QB. as for the system, that was Belichick, he said last year in that game against the Colts, how their team wasn't dependent on one guy being hurt, that their system was bigger than one player. System could mean a lot of things, I'm just using it in the same context as Belichick.

they might have lost 5 games since their 18-1 season, but going 11-5 in the NFL with a QB who hasn't started since high school and history has proven to fucking suck, is pretty incredible. Especially since they were 10-6 the year after with Brady coming back. (yes I know he was coming back from an injury, so has Manning with a worse situation) It's a credit once again to that coaching staff for gameplanning the best they could with the talent available.

[LnGrrrR]

So Brady has been a successful QB in various systems, while putting up outstanding, record setting numbers the past few years. Yeah, I could see how you could plug in any above-average QB to get the same results.

[J.T.]

1. Andrew Luck
2-Inf. WGAF?

/thread

Manning is the king of one and done in the playoffs. If Indy clinches, I want Baltimore first (Flacco sucks, totally rode stout D and Ray Rice to relevancy) then Denver.

[HI-FI]

So Brady has been a successful QB in various systems, while putting up outstanding, record setting numbers the past few years. Yeah, I could see how you could plug in any above-average QB to get the same results.
True. or you could put in a player as bad as Matt Cassell and get decent to average results. Belichick is a hell of a coach.

[gaKNOW!blee]

1. Andrew Luck
2-Inf. WGAF?

/thread

Manning is the king of one and done in the playoffs. If Indy clinches, I want Baltimore first (Flacco sucks, totally rode stout D and Ray Rice to relevancy) then Denver.

You mean like his last one and done...where he got his team the late lead and his defense choked it away by getting shit on by mark Sanchez and Braylon edwards?

[Lincoln]

You mean like his last one and done...where he got his team the late lead and his defense choked it away by getting shit on by mark Sanchez and Braylon edwards?

What are the chances bills beat seahawks sunday

[Pelicans78]

I would take Montana and Brady over Manning simply because of their poise. Both Brady and Manning are awesome and Manning has all the physical gifts, but Brady just has that poise that reminds me of Montana.

[DD]

ah shit DD, don't tell me you're a fan of Brady as well.

tbh, I think Brady is overrated. DO I think he is good? yes. Do I think he is an obvious HoFer? of course. but I still think he's a system QB. Matt fucking Cassell hadn't started since high school, stepped on the field and put up very similar numbers to Brady's first few years.

where I give credit to Brady is he can flat out throw the ball, great accuracy, very quick release, so he deserves his share of credit. He also has good pocket presence. I'm just saying that you could put quite a few QBs in that system and they would have great years. Think about how that team game plans, how they execute, how they rarely turn the ball over. Brady usually gets more time in the pocket than most, and the Patriots can usually run the ball very well despite having no big names RBs.

This era will come down to Manning revolutionizing the position with his brain and OCD tendencies, and Belichick being the greatest coach since Bill Walsh. Belichick and his right hand man Ernie Adams (a true rainman, look him up if you haven't) are fucking geniuses at the game. Plus they'll cheat from time to time which only helps their odds. But cheating aside, Belichick and Adams are amazing coaches/strategists. I also believe that if Belichick coaches after Brady, they'll still be contenders though not as good.

The fact is if you have reversed their positions, if Brady had gone to Colts and Manning to Patriots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMHO. Manning with Belichick would be pretty much unstoppable.

No, as a Bills fan I hate him and think his wife has turned him into a eurofag. That being said, it's disingenuous to call him a system QB with the #'s he's put up. 5000-yd passers aren't system QBs, nor are QBs who throw for 36/4. Last year was especially impressive, given how truly awful that team was around him...one of the most underappreciated SB appearances I can remember.

[DD]

What are the chances bills beat seahawks sunday

It's a road game, so I'd say 40/60 they lose.

[Lincoln]

It's a road game, so I'd say 40/60 they lose.

I hope so, it'd be great if your boys in blue could give us some help

I can't trust this falcons team

[dirk4mvp]

5000-yd passers aren't system QBs

Matt Glassford says what's up.

[HI-FI]

No, as a Bills fan I hate him and think his wife has turned him into a eurofag. That being said, it's disingenuous to call him a system QB with the #'s he's put up. 5000-yd passers aren't system QBs, nor are QBs who throw for 36/4. Last year was especially impressive, given how truly awful that team was around him...one of the most underappreciated SB appearances I can remember.
tbh, Brady was a eurofag long before Gizelle. He was rocking a manpurse early on. He's always been a hardcore metrosexual.

people always shit on the Patriot teams but in terms of points allowed, I don't think they've had a defense worse than 17th under Belichick. That's pretty incredible, considering how the focus has been more on the offensive side of things.

I never said he was some scrub, I've said he is elite and a HOFer, I don't know what more praise I can give. I just think that he landed in the perfect environment. Brady deserves all the credit for his work ethic, his passion for the game, his great arm etc...but he started out as a game manager and fortunately had a coach who is imo the best at gameplanning. I just don't think Brady would've ever grown to be this good had he gone somewhere else, whereas I think Manning would've been great anywhere.

IMO, Manning and Belichick represent this era like Johnny U and Lombardi represented their time. I put Brady in the role of Bart Starr, very good and a HOFer, but I think he'll always be overshadowed by his coach, whereas Manning's best coach he's had is probably John Fox, tbh.

[DD]

If "just throw it to Megatron" is considered a system, then yeah. He's terribly erratic and inconsistent, but not a system qb

[DD]

tbh, Brady was a eurofag long before Gizelle. He was rocking a manpurse early on. He's always been a hardcore metrosexual.

people always shit on the Patriot teams but in terms of points allowed, I don't think they've had a defense worse than 17th under Belichick. That's pretty incredible, considering how the focus has been more on the offensive side of things.

I never said he was some scrub, I've said he is elite and a HOFer, I don't know what more praise I can give. I just think that he landed in the perfect environment. Brady deserves all the credit for his work ethic, his passion for the game, his great arm etc...but he started out as a game manager and fortunately had a coach who is imo the best at gameplanning. I just don't think Brady would've ever grown to be this good had he gone somewhere else, whereas I think Manning would've been great anywhere.

IMO, Manning and Belichick represent this era like Johnny U and Lombardi represented their time. I put Brady in the role of Bart Starr, very good and a HOFer, but I think he'll always be overshadowed by his coach, whereas Manning's best coach he's had is probably John Fox, tbh.

If Mo Lewis hadn't ruined the AFC East then yeah, Brady may never have gotten a chance. Btw, I never hinted or said that I would take him over Manning. I think the Sheriff is #2 all-time behind Montana.

[HI-FI]

If Mo Lewis hadn't ruined the AFC East then yeah, Brady may never have gotten a chance. Btw, I never hinted or said that I would take him over Manning. I think the Sheriff is #2 all-time behind Montana.
I've come to respect Brady over the years, but I've always feared Belichick. nefarious mofo tbh, but brilliant. I've always wanted to see what Belichick could do without Brady, I guess the Matt Cassell year was proof of it. Supposedly he wants to coach a few years after Brady, probably to show how he can adapt with a new QB, but I wonder how much he'll have left in the tank at that point. I think your AFC East will be safer once him and his boy Ernie Adams ride off into sunset. :tu on your QB list, pretty much what mine is.

[FkLA]

I dont think anyone can deny Brady was in a more favorable environment in NE than the GOAT was in Indy tbh. Matt fucking Cassell was able to keep the ship steady while Brady was out. Meanwhile Kerry Collins and whoever the other POS QB was last season completely fucked everything up. It took another once in a generation QB in Luck to get the Colts up and running again.

[LnGrrrR]

I think that Brady and Manning are 2a/2b in that order (Brady getting the nod for 3 rings and 5 total appearances).

[Pelicans78]

Cassell took over a team that went 18-1 the previous season and Cassell led the Chiefs to the playoffs two years ago as well.

The Colts team would have been 9-7 at best with Peyton last year. That was a bad team anyway.

Peyton lost a lot of home playoff games especially when the team was favored in most of them. His ego was a big reason why.

[dirk4mvp]

His ego was a big reason why.

Can you explain without using some lame reason you usually use like "I don't like the way Peyton chops his feet in the pocket!"

[FkLA]

Ive always laughed when people call Peyton egotistical because he wanted too much control of the offense in Indy. Hes the fucking GOAT, and great at reading defenses...so of course he should have and want full control of the offense.

[stretch]

And if you look at Manning's record, he's had a lot of garbage games too. Heck, the only reason he has a ring is because the Indy defense stepped it up in the playoffs.

Exactly the reason Brady has 3 rings. If his defense sucked ass as bad as Manning's did all these years, he doesn't have any of those rings. See 07-08 and 10-11 Patriots.

Takes a full team effort to win a championship. If the Pats defense those two years were more capable of stepping up and helping when the offense went through struggles, Brady would have a fist full of rings.

[DD]

1999: L to Titans...his first ever playoff game...that was a good team they lost to as well.
2005: L to Steelers...probably his most painful loss when he looks back on his career...Colts were far and away the best team in the NFL that year.
2007: L to Chargers...lol the D not being able to stop Michael Turner and Billy Volek.
2010: L to Jets...Defense choked, with an assistvfrom Caldwell's untimely timeout.

I only see 2005 as being a true home choke (on his part) imo.

[LnGrrrR]

Exactly the reason Brady has 3 rings. If his defense sucked ass as bad as Manning's did all these years, he doesn't have any of those rings. See 07-08 and 10-11 Patriots.

Takes a full team effort to win a championship. If the Pats defense those two years were more capable of stepping up and helping when the offense went through struggles, Brady would have a fist full of rings.

Agreed. I'm just pointing out that saying Brady ONLY won a ring because of good New England defense is implying that Manning did it all on his own, without a good defense.

[stretch]

His ego was a big reason why.

Yeah, it is his ego's fault that the defense allowed guys like Phillip Rivers with a shredded knee, and Mark Sanchez to tear them apart in the playoffs. It is his ego's fault that his offensive line suddenly forgot how to pass block against the Steelers and that Vanderjagt went from being the highest % FG kicker of all time, to a choke artist that couldn't hit anything more than 20 yards. It's his ego's fault that Reggie Wayne forgets how to curl on a curl route.

He's not flawless, no QB is. But there were plenty of other factors outside of his control that led heavily to many of the Colts playoff losses, and he usually was not one of them. He pretty much was money in the playoffs after he finally beat the Patriots.

[stretch]

Agreed. I'm just pointing out that saying Brady ONLY won a ring because of good New England defense is implying that Manning did it all on his own, without a good defense.

I think it's understandable why some people think Brady is a system QB, just like it's understandable why some people think Manning is a choker. But in the end, both viewpoints are wrong as there is plenty of evidence to back it up both ways.

There is so little that separates the greatness of the two, that it's not even worth debating anymore. They are pretty much equal when all factors are considered. You really can't go wrong with either one, and there is basically no situation in which one has a decided advantage over the other. Both can tear up any defense imaginable, make fantastic reads and audibles, and are scary as hell in the clutch. We all know what Brady has done in the clutch with a number of game winning drives in the playoffs and SB, and Manning is so scary that he made arguably the greatest coach ever (Belichick) make a generally unthinkable desicion because he was scared at the thought of Manning having the ball with the game on the line.

[LnGrrrR]

Manning and Brady have pretty comparable stats in the playoffs actually.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/gamelog/post/

Manning: 19 games, 29 TDS, 19 INTs, 63.1% comp, 5389 yds, QB Rating 88.4

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog/post/

Brady: 22 games, 38 TDS, 20 INTs, 62.9% comp, 5285 yds, QB Rating 87.8

[dirk4mvp]

Yeah, it is his ego's fault that the defense allowed guys like Phillip Rivers with a shredded knee, and Mark Sanchez to tear them apart in the playoffs. It is his ego's fault that his offensive line suddenly forgot how to pass block against the Steelers and that Vanderjagt went from being the highest % FG kicker of all time, to a choke artist that couldn't hit anything more than 20 yards. It's his ego's fault that Reggie Wayne forgets how to curl on a curl route.

He's not flawless, no QB is. But there were plenty of other factors outside of his control that led heavily to many of the Colts playoff losses, and he usually was not one of them. He pretty much was money in the playoffs after he finally beat the Patriots.

the FG attempt wouldn't have even been necessary if Peyton's ego didn't hold Nick Harper back from outrunning Fat Ben, not sure though.

[LnGrrrR]

I think it's understandable why some people think Brady is a system QB, just like it's understandable why some people think Manning is a choker. But in the end, both viewpoints are wrong as there is plenty of evidence to back it up both ways.

There is so little that separates the greatness of the two, that it's not even worth debating anymore. They are pretty much equal when all factors are considered. You really can't go wrong with either one, and there is basically no situation in which one has a decided advantage over the other. Both can tear up any defense imaginable, make fantastic reads and audibles, and are scary as hell in the clutch. We all know what Brady has done in the clutch with a number of game winning drives in the playoffs and SB, and Manning is so scary that he made arguably the greatest coach ever (Belichick) make a generally unthinkable desicion because he was scared at the thought of Manning having the ball with the game on the line.

Agreed, and I think Manning really shed the whole "choker" thing after he beat us in the AFC game en route to the title.

[HI-FI]

the FG attempt wouldn't have even been necessary if Peyton's ego didn't hold Nick Harper back from outrunning Fat Ben, not sure though.
:lmao
i agree with DD above, I think that was probably the worst overall loss in his playoff resume. IIRC, that was the year Broncos knocked out Patriots as well, so everything was wide open. wasn't that also right after Dungy's son killed himself? you knew when that happened, the team was going to be either fired up and ready to win for the Gipper, or be totally deflated. fortunately for them, they had the great Jim Caldwell leading the way:depressed

and Vanderjagt's kick at the end was probably the most anti-Viniatieri kick ever made, holy shit, that probably knocked out a concessionaire in the stands.

We all know what Brady has done in the clutch with a number of game winning drives in the playoffs and SB, and Manning is so scary that he made arguably the greatest coach ever (Belichick) make a generally unthinkable desicion because he was scared at the thought of Manning having the ball with the game on the line.
I can't wait when it's all over for those guys to talk or rehash their battles for some book or documentary. So many great, iconic moments. Belichick going for it on that fourth down was something else, I would really like to hear him shoot the shit when it's all said and done.

[TIMMYtoZO]

Peyton is the best that I have ever seen in my lifetime. I won't lie, he would cause major problems for that Giants D in the Manning Super Bowl. He can read defenses better than anyone I have ever seen. The Giants D knew how to stop Brady, but Peyton is a different monster. He gets blamed for the Jets loss in 11 (his D lost that game), the Chargers loss in 08 (his D and his WR dropping balls all over the place, the Saints game (Garcon drop, Brees owning that D, and Wayne fucking up his route that lost the game) etc etc.

Seeing what Manning has done in Denver is not surprising at all. His impact on the team is greater than just the stats. I read articles on how even the defensive players are being critical of themselves. They take it 1 game at a time. They all hate letting him down, but love playing with him.

[Clipper Nation]

Peyton >>>> Brady

Peyton is like the CP3 of the NFL, basically a head coach out there.... his football IQ is off the charts, he carries shit teams to legit contention, it's not even close.... put Peyton on the Patsies and it'd be not one, not two, not three, not four....

[LnGrrrR]

Peyton >>>> Brady

Peyton is like the CP3 of the NFL, basically a head coach out there.... his football IQ is off the charts, he carries shit teams to legit contention, it's not even close.... put Peyton on the Patsies and it'd be not one, not two, not three, not four....

Tbh, if Asante Samuel catches an easy INT, and Welker catches a relatively easy pass, Brady would have five rings right now... :lol

[HI-FI]

Tbh, if Asante Samuel catches an easy INT, and Welker catches a relatively easy pass, Brady would have five rings right now... :lol
you could spin that a number of ways though. if not for Tuck Rule (still worst call i can remember in any sport) or Spygate, who knows if Brady has any rings.

[Pelicans78]

Brady's the best of this generation. Closest thing to Joe Montana we've seen. Brady can dissect any defense he wants.

[DD]

Except the Giants D:lol

[LnGrrrR]

you could spin that a number of ways though. if not for Tuck Rule (still worst call i can remember in any sport) or Spygate, who knows if Brady has any rings.

:lol bringing up Spygate

The fact that the Pats went 16-0 that year, and have won numerous games since pretty much throws that out the window. It's not like any of the Pats SB wins have been blowouts either way; those games both came down to a few plays.

And as far as the Tuck Rule, that was Foxborough Stadium's last gift to us before it was retired. :lol

[HI-FI]

:lol bringing up Spygate

The fact that the Pats went 16-0 that year, and have won numerous games since pretty much throws that out the window. It's not like any of the Pats SB wins have been blowouts either way; those games both came down to a few plays.

And as far as the Tuck Rule, that was Foxborough Stadium's last gift to us before it was retired. :lol
they're a great team without that, and Brady is a very good QB. but obviously recording team's walkthroughs, doing other sneaky shit, gives you an advantage in key moments. The fact they could only beat teams by 3 points in their SBs shows that every little advantage helped. That and having one of the clutchest kickers ever.

You should read up on Ernie Adams, the rainman of that team. true beautiful mind type guy, I have no doubt that whatever extra footage or intel he is given, he can use it better than any other team.

but i'll give you credit, least you don't make excuses for Tuck Rule, i've encountered patriot fans who still defend the call.

[LnGrrrR]

The Tuck Rule was TECHNICALLY correct, but no ref actually calls it like that. I actually had made a bet on the game with my friend, and when that call came out, I giggled like a little schoolgirl. :lmao

[scanry]

Joe Cool

Thread. Montana will always be the greatest in my book, but Brady & Manning have been more consistent (very little though) than Montana.

[Greg Oden]

Hornets78 are you a big Bill Romanowski fan?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BDauaBHs81Y#!

[Pelicans78]

Hornets78 are you a big Bill Romanowski fan?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BDauaBHs81Y#!

I liked him in Madden 93 when he was for the 49ers, but he was mostly successful by being roided up and had too much roid rage in the process. Honestly, he's a scumbug.

[stretch]

The Tuck Rule was TECHNICALLY correct, but no ref actually calls it like that. I actually had made a bet on the game with my friend, and when that call came out, I giggled like a little schoolgirl. :lmao

I don't see how it was even technically correct, considering the ball was fully tucked. It wasn't moving forward anymore. He clearly had both hands on the ball.

[symple19]

Montana
Brady
Elway
Manning
Favre

PM still has time to move up and is already my 2nd favorite ever to watch

[LnGrrrR]

I don't see how it was even technically correct, considering the ball was fully tucked. It wasn't moving forward anymore. He clearly had both hands on the ball.

I think that they said it wasn't fully "tucked" into his body, but yeah, I know. Of course, you could argue that the refs missed him getting hit in the head too... he gets slapped on the side of his helmet. It's pretty easy to see at 3:53 here. I'm pretty sure it was illegal even back then to hit a QB in the head, but that tends to get glossed over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQAmuZ8t94

[possessed]

Montana was surrounded by the most talent in the history of... Ever... Manning and Brady, in that order, for GOAT.

[spurraider21]

Peyton >>>> Brady

Peyton is like the CP3 of the NFL, basically a head coach out there.... his football IQ is off the charts, he carries shit teams to legit contention, it's not even close.... put Peyton on the Patsies and it'd be not one, not two, not three, not four....
:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao

Once Fivehead did this...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2013915/peytonINT.gif

...I finally accepted that he was the biggest choking faggot of all time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^:lmao:lmao:lmao great find

[unleashbaynes]

:lmao that one burns

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Once Fivehead did this...

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2013915/peytonINT.gif

...I finally accepted that he was the biggest choking faggot of all time.

:lmao sorry, there's no way you can :downspin: that flip flop

[Clipper Nation]

:lol On a side note, my Choke Paul comparison is still spot-on.

[AlexJones]

:lol On a side note, my Choke Paul comparison is still spot-on.

:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao all the posts in this thread

:cry Manning never had a stacked team or defense :cry

This team was just as if not more stacked than any New England team Brady ever had.

[spurraider21]

:lmao all the posts in this thread

:cry Manning never had a stacked team or defense :cry

This team was just as if not more stacked than any New England team Brady ever had.
indeed. the argument held true for the colts years imo (he had better receivers than brady, but the overall cast was subpar)... but these last 2 seasons on the broncos he's had no excuses

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao all the posts in this thread

:cry Manning never had a stacked team or defense :cry

This team was just as if not more stacked than any New England team Brady ever had.
Yep... Denver was paying guys under the table like it was Elway's last hurrah all over again and he STILL couldn't get it done.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yep... Denver was paying guys under the table like it was Elway's last hurrah all over again and he STILL couldn't get it done.

When I look at that roster I still don't understand how it's under the salary cap :lol

[HI-FI]

Peyton >>>> Brady

Peyton is like the CP3 of the NFL, basically a head coach out there.... his football IQ is off the charts, he carries shit teams to legit contention, it's not even close.... put Peyton on the Patsies and it'd be not one, not two, not three, not four....
Damn, I miss this version of CN. To be fair, least you've thrown CP3 under the bus just as badly. Maybe one day you'll accept Lebron hasn't lived up to the hype either. Very few rarely do though.

[Pelicans78]

:lmao all the posts in this thread

:cry Manning never had a stacked team or defense :cry

This team was just as if not more stacked than any New England team Brady ever had.

The 2005 Colts team was one of the best teams he ever played for. Unfortunately, they had "protection problems."

[HemisfairArena]

Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Flacco.....all with better winning percentages in the Super Bowl than Peyton stat padder Manning. Only guy he could beat was Rex Grossman.