Tonight is why trading Neal might not be worth it...

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This team has a surplus of guards but Neal is just instant offense all the time. Spurs probably would have an extra loss or two at the very least without him.

His shot selection drives me nuts sometimes, but finding players with the big kahunas to let it fly in crucial moments and be cold blooded at the same time are tough to find.


He's everything we hoped Roger Mason would be and more.

[Boomersgold]

Actually, trading Neal now would be perfect. His trade worth just keeps skyrocketing.

[racm]

I think his ceiling is a Vinnie Johnson type.

[spurraider21]

Dude hits big shots. you don't trade guys like that, plain and simple. its not like he's a cap burden either, so i don't get why people are so intent on trading him

[Boomersgold]

Dude hits big shots. you don't trade guys like that, plain and simple. its not like he's a cap burden either, so i don't get why people are so intent on trading him
I don't think anyone wants to trade him because they're disappointed with what he's producing. We just have TOO many guards.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I would only trade Neal if it included getting a solid back.

[DAF86]

Dude is just one if not the best shooter in the league.

[freetiago]

he can get 5-7 mil this offseason
splitter could likely get somewhere from 7-10 mil
spurs probably dont want to pay both of them that kind of money

[Paranoid Pop]

Would still rather trade Green if anyone because Anderson can do pretty much what he does plus putting the ball on the floor and passing while nobody can replace Neal. Plus Green's streaky shooting is kinda unreliable compared to a sniper like Neal that can hit any shot any time really.

[Truckules]

Dude hits big shots. you don't trade guys like that, plain and simple. its not like he's a cap burden either, so i don't get why people are so intent on trading him

He's a free agent after this season and will ask for a large amount. Spurs will have cap room, but they might want to use it to get a good big. I like Gary and would love to see him back, but I would rather the Spurs deal him now and get something back than watch him walk and get nothing.

[Manu-20]

There are times were I think we should trade Neal because of how horrible he is at playing the point, then I think over everything you just said and decide no, but Neal is a real problem sometimes and Nando seems to be improving every game but it's a tough call as to decide which of those two would be a bitter fit with the second unit I wish there was a way both could be in the rotation but it just doesn't seem plausible at the moment.

[SequSpur]

Actually, trading Neal now would be perfect. His trade worth just keeps skyrocketing.

yeah, let's trade someone that actually fucking helps the win column......

fucking shoot me already..

[Boomersgold]

yeah, let's trade someone that actually fucking helps the win column......

fucking shoot me already..


He's a free agent after this season and will ask for a large amount. Spurs will have cap room, but they might want to use it to get a good big. I like Gary and would love to see him back, but I would rather the Spurs deal him now and get something back than watch him walk and get nothing.

:bang

[widowmaker]

Would still rather trade Green if anyone because Anderson can do pretty much what he does plus putting the ball on the floor and passing while nobody can replace Neal. Plus Green's streaky shooting is kinda unreliable compared to a sniper like Neal that hit any shot really.

Yeah cause Anderson has proved that he can go off on any given night lol. You dont know what your talking about lol.

[Manu-20]

Would still rather trade Green if anyone because Anderson can do pretty much what he does plus putting the ball on the floor and passing while nobody can replace Neal. Plus Green's streaky shooting is kinda unreliable compared to a sniper like Neal that can hit any shot anytime really.
Anderson can't do everything green can, yes green is a streaky shooter but between the two in my eyes green is the better player.

[Brunodf]

Neal+Blair for a top 5 pick, i would take it

[SequSpur]

Green and Neal fuckin ball their asses off...it's up to Pop to do something with it... But that dbag would rather float 20 minutes to fuckin bonner for some reason....wtf...

[ffadicted]

Dude hits big shots. you don't trade guys like that, plain and simple. its not like he's a cap burden either, so i don't get why people are so intent on trading him

Because, and you'll notice this in time, the majority of ppl here have no idea what he fuck they're talking about lol

[widowmaker]

Between the two anderson and green, green is the better player no doubt.

[timtonymanu]

This thread brings up something I'm curious about. What should the starting lineup be once Leonard comes back?

Neal looks very comfortable in the starting SG role and I would have campaigned him to start there once Leonard was healthy, but Green also did well at the end of today's game so you can't bench him. I don't know if this sounds crazy, but should Leonard be the starting PF over Blair? That way, you could start Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, and Parker. The 2nd unit will be Splitter, Diaw, Jackson, Manu, and De Colo. I don't have the stats to back up this idea, but just on paper alone, what do you guys think?

[lakerhaterade]

Actually, trading Neal now would be perfect. His trade worth just keeps skyrocketing.
You're quickly rising on the ranks of shittiest posters on Spurstalk.

[Brunodf]

yeah, let's trade someone that actually fucking helps the win column......

fucking shoot me already..

Must be trolling, i don't even know if Neal had a positive perfomance or not in this game(despite his 29 points).

[Em-City]

For a win-now team, we need this roster together in the playoffs.

Neal's instant-O will be much-needed, especially when the opposing D gets tougher.


If we're looking good this year, I'd like to hold onto our team to make a run at the 'ship - if we lose players to free agency next year, fuck it.


Blair is probably the only player I'd be happy to see traded before the end of the season.

[Em-City]

Actually, trading Neal now would be perfect. His trade worth just keeps skyrocketing.


You're quickly rising on the ranks of shittiest posters on Spurstalk.

This

[racm]

Neal has one of the most cost-effective contracts in the league. The Spurs can't get anything for him unless he's packaged with a guy like Bonner.

[SequSpur]

Must be trolling, i don't even know if Neal had a positive perfomance or not in this game(despite his 29 points).

trolling?

[Chinook]

This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

[Boomersgold]

You're quickly rising on the ranks of shittiest posters on Spurstalk.

If his trade value is high, then rather than let him walk out next year due to free agency (I doubt the Spurs will resign him with all that depth at the guard spot), we could get trade Neal and get a quality player in return. Not nearly as bad as your posts, buddy.

[Boomersgold]

You're quickly rising on the ranks of shittiest posters on Spurstalk.

Here's an example of one of your awesome posts:
"Good fucking Allah god, it keeps happening. BULLSHIT"

:lmao As Barkley would say, "Just turrible."

[letmk]

Would still rather trade Green if anyone because Anderson can do pretty much what he does plus putting the ball on the floor and passing while nobody can replace Neal. Plus Green's streaky shooting is kinda unreliable compared to a sniper like Neal that can hit any shot any time really.

Don't want to dismiss Anderson as a NBA player as he is showing some progress. However, he is far far behind Green at this point. Green is not a star in any means, but he is a legit starting SG for a real championship contender. And that is not an easy task at all.

Also on defense, Green is far from a great defender, but Pop always puts him on the other teams' best/hottest perimeter players. The result are not always good as we still got beat by players like Paul. But at the very least, it spares Tony from getting tired from defending players like Lin tonight.

[Brunodf]

This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

100% this, i would take a top 5 pick too

[Paranoid Pop]

This thread brings up something I'm curious about. What should the starting lineup be once Leonard comes back?

Neal looks very comfortable in the starting SG role and I would have campaigned him to start there once Leonard was healthy, but Green also did well at the end of today's game so you can't bench him. I don't know if this sounds crazy, but should Leonard be the starting PF over Blair? That way, you could start Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, and Parker. The 2nd unit will be Splitter, Diaw, Jackson, Manu, and De Colo. I don't have the stats to back up this idea, but just on paper alone, what do you guys think?

Problem is you can't switch the D with Green guarding the PG and he would potentially see monsters like Durant while Kahwi could see monsters like Blake Griffin.

[SequSpur]

Green is a fuckin allstar. Period.

[Mugen]

Even though i'm super high on Nando, games like tonight prove why Gary has to stay in the rotation even if he's not a natural PG.

His shotmaking skills are just way too invaluable in playoff games where the Spurs offense bogs down.

[racm]

Boomersgold is just the resident Church of Patty head, tbh

[Manu-20]

This thread brings up something I'm curious about. What should the starting lineup be once Leonard comes back?

Neal looks very comfortable in the starting SG role and I would have campaigned him to start there once Leonard was healthy, but Green also did well at the end of today's game so you can't bench him. I don't know if this sounds crazy, but should Leonard be the starting PF over Blair? That way, you could start Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, and Parker. The 2nd unit will be Splitter, Diaw, Jackson, Manu, and De Colo. I don't have the stats to back up this idea, but just on paper alone, what do you guys think?
I've thought about starting Leonard to as the starting PF sometimes too seeing Blair out there starting well do that to you, but to answer your question it may work with Leonard playing PF he is the type of SF who in theory could play PF, the other PF would have to come out of the paint to guard him leaving the paint open or we force the other team to go small. My concern with doing this though is the wear and tear it might cause on Leonard but overall it is an intresting idea we could just go big to with Splitter when we play teams like the lakers and memphis.

[letmk]

This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

Just propose some trades, and let's see if it can improve the Spurs and at the same time it's doable. Don't need to be probable, just reasonable enough to get the other team considering. Let's see what you can come up with.

[widowmaker]

This thread brings up something I'm curious about. What should the starting lineup be once Leonard comes back?

Neal looks very comfortable in the starting SG role and I would have campaigned him to start there once Leonard was healthy, but Green also did well at the end of today's game so you can't bench him. I don't know if this sounds crazy, but should Leonard be the starting PF over Blair? That way, you could start Duncan, Leonard, Green, Neal, and Parker. The 2nd unit will be Splitter, Diaw, Jackson, Manu, and De Colo. I don't have the stats to back up this idea, but just on paper alone, what do you guys think?

Na no way. I would say that the starting line up stays the same and Leonard comes off the bench then whenever a game comes around where team matchups come into play Leonard moves back to the starting line up. Parker, Green, Leonard, Blair, Duncan.

[DAF86]

If his trade value is high, then rather than let him walk out next year due to free agency (I doubt the Spurs will resign him with all that depth at the guard spot), we could get trade Neal and get a quality player in return. Not nearly as bad as your posts, buddy.

And then maybe Mills gets some playing time.

[Darkwaters]

Anderson can't do everything green can, yes green is a streaky shooter but between the two in my eyes green is the better player.


I'm pretty sure it's more than just you. It's basically everyone. Danny Green has a long-term NBA contract. James Anderson is just barely out of the D-League, and might be on his way back down there once a few injured players return.

This isn't even a discussion.

[Boomersgold]

Boomersgold (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37387) is just the resident Church of Patty head, tbh

But whenever De Colo plays well, I always give him credit for his performances. Not like some of these Blair or Neal haters out there. Everyone has their favorite player. For example, Manu fans will try to defend him even when Manu has a bad game and goes 1 from 7 from three point land, with some even calling him a "Shooting-gawd." Freetiago tends to want Tiago to play. I wonder why?

[SpurPadre]

Dude hits big shots but I do not, repeat do not want him jacking up stupid ass shots, thinking he's MJ at crucial moments in the playoffs if we find ourselves with our backs against the wall before The Big 3 get their hands on the ball. If he can do that and wait for his opportunities and know his role in the team, then yes, he should stay here. But his shot-selection can be cringe-worthy. He's a proven player and am glad to have him but if we can get a legit big for him, then it might be something we have to look into.

[timtonymanu]

Yeah I just thought about it because Neal looks way more effective when he's playing shooting guard. Neal will likely be relegated back to that back-up PG spot once Leonard and Jack are back and I like the role he's currently in right now.

[lakerhaterade]

If his trade value is high, then rather than let him walk out next year due to free agency (I doubt the Spurs will resign him with all that depth at the guard spot), we could get trade Neal and get a quality player in return. Not nearly as bad as your posts, buddy.
I wouldn't trade him. Every team needs a player like Neal. I'm glad he's on this team despite his bad decision making at times.

You're a shitty poster. Check your posts in the game thread to see why that's the case.

You make it hard for a fellow spur fan to like Patty Mills with the way you fellate him.

:cry:cry nando sucks at defense
:cry:cry patty mills!


Here's an example of one of your awesome posts:
"Good fucking Allah god, it keeps happening. BULLSHIT"

hahahaha

I try to have fun. What can I say, shitty poster?

[Em-City]

This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

With the team we have right now, Neal is not just a shooter - he is the only player not named timmy or tony who is able to create his own shot when teams are rotating hard whilst we swing the ball. Manu used to be this guy, but his iso-play is just not there this year, and let's face it although he's been improving offensively most of his success has come when manu has played within the team's flow.

Now i know "hero-ball" is the mis-used term of the month here at ST but when it comes to playoffs, you need a man like Neal who can do it for himself to take the pressure off the team when our opponent is filling the passing lanes and roughing us up.. especially when tony is off. I'm not condoning Gary as the PG - i feel he's best at SG but trust me, if we got rid of him, we're gonna have a moment or two in the PO's where the opponent goes on a 7-0 run in the 4th qtr of a close one, and we're gonna say "i wish we had somebody like neal to step up and hit a big 3 to take the pressure off".

[Boomersgold]

I wouldn't trade him. Every team needs a player like Neal. I'm glad he's on this team despite his bad decision making at times.

You're a shitty poster. Check your posts in the game thread to see why that's the case.

You make it hard for a fellow spur fan to like Patty Mills with the way you fellate him.

:cry:cry nando sucks at defense
:cry:cry patty mills!



I try to have fun. What can I say, shitty poster?

So do I. When Patty scores a three, I'll type "Patty Mills!". When De Colo hits Splitter with an awesome assist, I'll post "De Colo!" That's what everyone else does....:bang
What about those Neal haters in today's thread that said we should take off Neal because he was playing hero ball (even though he scored 26 points...)

[timtonymanu]

You make it hard for a fellow spur fan to like Patty Mills with the way you fellate him.

:cry:cry nando sucks at defense
:cry:cry patty mills!



rofl the Patty love on this board is actually quite overrated and I myself am a Patty fan too. There are a number of guilty posters who overhype the guy.

[Chinook]

Just propose some trades, and let's see if it can improve the Spurs and at the same time it's doable. Don't need to be probable, just reasonable enough to get the other team considering. Let's see what you can come up with.

It's not even hard to do that. We've been talking about this in the Think Tank for weeks now. There are teams like the Wolves, Sixers and Suns who'd love what Neal brings to a team. What we've been debating is whether players like Derrick Williams, Marcin Gortat, Paul Millsap, Larry Sanders and the like are what the Spurs need. That's definitely something worthy of discussion, and you have every right to challenge that. But our opinions on it don't matter, because it's all about what Pop thinks is best. And that's what I'm saying: If he has the chance to acquire whatever he thinks the Spurs need, Neal should absolutely be part of that package. He's not untradeable just because he's good.

[DesignatedT]

Depends what you're trading him for. Pretty sure nobody has ever wanted to trade him just to trade him.

[Boomersgold]

rofl the Patty love on this board is actually quite overrated and I myself am a Patty fan too. There are a number of guilty posters who overhype the guy.

A lot of Bonner posters who overhype Bonner as well...C'mon, there are more threads with "Does Bonner improves front lineup" than there are Patty threads. (A LOT MORE)

[Em-City]

rofl the Patty love on this board is actually quite overrated and I myself am a Patty fan too. There are a number of guilty posters who overhype the guy.


You realise it's because there's a bunch of Australians on this forum. one-eyed countrymen piss me off.

[bigfan]

Not sure of his contract status but Ive never understood the logic of those wanting to unload the guy. We got him cheap and he is by far the best cold blooded shooter on the team. He may lack a bit on defense and yeah, he aint a point guard but who gives a shit? When he is hot like tonight he is damn deadly.

[Chinook]

With the team we have right now, Neal is not just a shooter - he is the only player not named timmy or tony who is able to create his own shot when teams are rotating hard whilst we swing the ball. Manu used to be this guy, but his iso-play is just not there this year, and let's face it although he's been improving offensively most of his success has come when manu has played within the team's flow.

Now i know "hero-ball" is the mis-used term of the month here at ST but when it comes to playoffs, you need a man like Neal who can do it for himself to take the pressure off the team when our opponent is filling the passing lanes and roughing us up.. especially when tony is off. I'm not condoning Gary as the PG - i feel he's best at SG but trust me, if we got rid of him, we're gonna have a moment or two in the PO's where the opponent goes on a 7-0 run in the 4th qtr of a close one, and we're gonna say "i wish we had somebody like neal to step up and hit a big 3 to take the pressure off".

I'm sure there'd be times that Neal would come in handy. He's a good player (improved more than he gets credit for), and he has a role on this team. Danny Green does too, as he demonstrated tonight, but people seem to think that's easily replaceable for some reason. What I'm saying is that if Pop thinks getting player X fixes the Spurs' issues to the extent that they don't even need someone to play "hero ball" as much, trading Neal makes sense. There may not be a trade like that out there. But that's not the issue. If the Spurs dump Neal for nothing, I'd be upset. But even if they traded him for someone like Larry Sanders, I'd understand, because I'd trust Pop would have a plan to replace Neal's offense.

[SpurSwag]

neal needs to stay, and tbh i don't see him asking for much as a free agent. spurs have always been open to discounts, and i could easily see the spurs giving him 3-4 million a year. tiago is a problem though, whereas i think neal is perfectly happy with his situation and would give up money to stay, tiago might want a better role and might leave. I definitely want them both to stay though and would much rather trade patty/danny green than neal

[Boomersgold]

I wouldn't trade him. Every team needs a player like Neal. I'm glad he's on this team despite his bad decision making at times.

You're a shitty poster. Check your posts in the game thread to see why that's the case.

I try to have fun. What can I say, shitty poster?

How does Patty Mills relate to any of this at all? (Another great post by lakerhaterade.)
I gave my opinion on whether or not Neal should be traded, and you should too. Stay on topic, man.

[letmk]

It's not even hard to do that. We've been talking about this in the Think Tank for weeks now. There are teams like the Wolves, Sixers and Suns who'd love what Neal. What we've been debating is whether players like Derrick Williams, Marcin Gortat, Paul Millsap, Larry Sanders and the like are what the Spurs need. That's definitely something worthy of discussion, and you have every right to challenge that. But our opinions on it doesn't matter, because it's all about what Pop thinks is best. And that's what I'm saying: If he has the chance to acquire whatever he thinks the Spurs need, Neal should absolutely be part of that package. He's not untradeable just because he's good.

Among the names you mentioned, I think only Gortat could still potentially benefit us with the minus of Neal. Not all the rest are scrubs as Millsap surely has values, but they cannot help Spurs more than Neal.

On the other hand, although he is very important to what Spurs are doing now, unlike Leonard, Neal is not your legit starting SG. So for a tanking team, why do they want Neal for their future? I'm not saying they don't want Neal, but they definitely don't give up Gortat or Millsap to the Spurs with Neal as the centerpiece of the trade. You need to give up Leonard and draft pick, etc.

Then hypothetically, even if Spurs is willing to give up Leonard for Gortat, they sure don't want to add Neal into the package. They will only insert Mills/Blair/Bonner if the other team asks, but not Neal. So we are back to square one, it's hard to trade Neal --- as the centerpiece --- to get a more valuable player back.

[Paranoid Pop]

neal needs to stay, and tbh i don't see him asking for much as a free agent. spurs have always been open to discounts, and i could easily see the spurs giving him 3-4 million a year. tiago is a problem though, whereas i think neal is perfectly happy with his situation and would give up money to stay, tiago might want a better role and might leave. I definitely want them both to stay though and would much rather trade patty/danny green than neal

Neal is not giving up any money, played 3 years for chump change, he already did the discount thing technically.

[Boomersgold]

Neal is not giving up any money, played 3 years for chump change, he already did the discount thing technically.

Neal's worth much more than he's being paid. He could get more elsewhere.

[Em-City]

Neal is not giving up any money, played 3 years for chump change, he already did the discount thing technically.

.. and on top of that, he came to the league at a later point in his career - he'll be looking to secure his future tbh, since this will probably be his only chance at a big contract.

[SpurSwag]

Neal is not giving up any money, played 3 years for chump change, he already did the discount thing technically.

danny green stayed, patty stayed...there's no reason to believe neal won't, plus no ones gonna throw him a ridiculous amount. It's not like any team thinks he can be the star of their team, his role on the spurs is pretty much his potential

[Em-City]

danny green stayed, patty stayed...there's no reason to believe neal won't, plus no ones gonna throw him a ridiculous amount. It's not like any team thinks he can be the star of their team, his role on the spurs is pretty much his potential

Green wouldn't have got too much more elsewhere, and I think he knows that most of his success needs to be attributed to the system he's playing in. Also, green is 3 or 4 years younger than neal.

[spurraider21]

He's a free agent after this season and will ask for a large amount. Spurs will have cap room, but they might want to use it to get a good big. I like Gary and would love to see him back, but I would rather the Spurs deal him now and get something back than watch him walk and get nothing.
I'd rather keep him for this season as he will help us make a run, more so than anything we will get back for him. We will have cap space next year to more than make up for the loss of Gary Neal

[Chinook]

Among the names you mentioned, I think only Gortat could still potentially benefit us with the minus of Neal. Not all the rest are scrubs as Millsap surely has values, but they cannot help Spurs more than Neal.

On the other hand, although he is very important to what Spurs are doing now, unlike Leonard, Neal is not your legit starting SG. So for a tanking team, why do they want Neal for their future? I'm not saying they don't want Neal, but they definitely don't give up Gortat or Millsap to the Spurs with Neal as the centerpiece of the trade. You need to give up Leonard and draft pick, etc.

Then hypothetically, even if Spurs is willing to give up Leonard for Gortat, they sure don't want to add Neal into the package. They will only insert Mills/Blair/Bonner if the other team asks, but not Neal. So we are back to square one, it's hard to trade Neal --- as the centerpiece --- to get a more valuable player back.

That's your opinion of Neal's relative value, and you're very much entitled to it. You should go over to the Think Tank for more-directed discussion on trade ideas. I'll say this here, though: There is no reason why Neal can't be a starting two-guard. There are systems like Phoenix' from years past and Orlando with Howard where Neal could start just fine. The reason he doesn't have that opportunity with the Spurs is that Danny Green fills the role better. Ideally, the Spurs' wings would be interchangeable, defending and shooting corner threes. Neal can't really play small-forward though, so that hurts his value in the starting line up. That's also the reason why Pop pushes for Neal to play the point off the bench.

Also, he can certainly be the centerpiece for teams like the Wolves. If they want to trade Williams, and (key phrase) if Pop thinks Williams could help the Spurs this year (and he'd have to, to commit the Spurs to that contract), then a Neal + filler for Williams deal is very possible. The better Neal plays, the more possible those deals become.

[letmk]

That's your opinion of Neal's relative value, and you're very much entitled to it. You should go over to the Think Tank for more-directed discussion on trade ideas. I'll say this here, though: There is no reason why Neal can't be a starting two-guard. There are systems like Phoenix' from years past and Orlando with Howard where Neal could start just fine. The reason he doesn't have that opportunity with the Spurs is that Danny Green fills the role better. Ideally, the Spurs' wings would be interchangeable, defending and shooting corner threes. Neal can't really play small-forward though, so that hurts his value in the starting line up. That's also the reason why Pop pushes for Neal to play the point off the bench.

Also, he can certainly be the centerpiece for teams like the Wolves. If they want to trade Williams, and (key phrase) if Pop thinks Williams could help the Spurs this year (and he'd have to, to commit the Spurs to that contract), then a Neal + filler for Williams deal is very possible. The better Neal plays, the more possible those deals become.

First of all, if you think Williams helps Spurs more THIS season, you are out of your mind. 3/5 years down the road, that's another story. Remember, all Spurs do is for now.

Second of all, Neal is already 28 years old. For a tanking team, they are not aiming for this season --- actually they are probably aiming for losing. They are praying for their Rose/Irving/Davis in next year's draft. So going into next season, Neal is 29 years old undersized SG, do you think they can wait for him to grow with their franchise player?

I'm not saying no bad/young teams would want to sign Neal as a free agent next summer. However, it's a totally different story for them to give up their Millsap/Gortat for Neal.

[DatBoyGood]

Would be cool if Neal was in the 3 pt shooting contest this year

[Chinook]

First of all, if you think Williams helps Spurs more THIS season, you are out of your mind. 3/5 years down the road, that's another story. Remember, all Spurs do is for now.

Second of all, Neal is already 28 years old. For a tanking team, they are not aiming for this season --- actually they are probably aiming for losing. They are praying for their Rose/Irving/Davis in next year's draft. So going into next season, Neal is 29 years old undersized SG, do you think they can wait for him to grow with their franchise player?

I'm not saying no bad/young teams would want to sign Neal as a free agent next summer. However, it's a totally different story for them to give up their Millsap/Gortat for Neal.

I'm not saying anything about how good Williams is right now. What I am saying is that there is a possibility that the Spurs could see him (or some other trade target) as the piece they need to complete their bigman rotation. If they do, and the trading team asks for Neal, it would make sense to move him, because the Spurs (in Pop's opinion) would be able to handle the loss of Neal and be even better with their acquisition. It doesn't have to be Williams.

Secondly, a team doesn't have to be tanking in order to trade a piece the Spurs want. The Suns may be a bad example, but the only reason why we're talking about them right now is because you think Gortat is the only piece that could help San Antonio. (Incidentally, I don't agree he would make the Spurs better than they are right now, not even ignoring Neal's departure.) Neal would not be the centerpiece in that type of deal anyway. On the other hand, the Wolves do not fancy themselves a tanking team right now. They are trying to win this year, which is why they signed Kirilenko and Roy, and why they want to trade for Gasol. Neal gives them scoring that they sourly lack, leading some members of this site to argue they make a good trade partner.

The argument I'm making here is that Neal is not untouchable by any means. Making the argument that the Spurs can't trade away really good players skews the very logic behind trades. The Spurs have great depth right now, and there have been plenty of nights were Mills has been the instant offense instead of Neal. Pop may believe he can coach Mills into doing that consistently. If he does, resigning Neal may not even be a priority for the Spurs in the offseason. Under those conditions, the idea of trading Neal for something that can better balance the team is very appealing.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't understand why some people are so results oriented after one game. Especially after a single great offensive performance against one of the worst (if not worst) defensive teams in the league (before this game, Neal had been chucking up a whopping 39% from the field the past 11 games, attempting 12 shots per contest-- but hey lets make this thread after crushing the defenseless Rockets). By no means am I trying to rain on Neal's parade, he had a great game and took advantage of the opportunities he received tonight ( kudos to him), but it's pretty foolish for people to use this circus of a game as excuse for him being untradeable. Those wide open efficient shots/opportunities that Neal gets against these type of teams won't be there when games really matter (if there will be any, there will be very few).

Regardless of this game, Spurs should keep Neal on the trade market to see if the right trade comes along that can improve the team, especially considering how resigning Neal for 4-5 mil per year (around his market value) makes little sense considering their salary cap situation come summer time.

But of course, if nothing worthy materializes on the trade market for Neal/Blair's services, they're better off just keeping both players to make the best push possible come late spring/early summer.

[tmtcsc]

Gary Neal should not be in any trade conversations this season. He's a clutch shooter and a big part of what this team does. Move Blair and/or Bonner if it makes sense, but don't move Gary Neal.

[Brunodf]

Gary Neal should not be in any trade conversations this season. He's a clutch shooter and a big part of what this team does. Move Blair and/or Bonner if it makes sense, but don't move Gary Neal.

Neal is a good shooter but he doesn't have space in the Spurs rotation(once Kawhi and Jack are health).

[Slutter McGee]

Big difference between baseball and basketball. In baseball you trade Neal. In basketball you dont.

Slutter McGee

[NASpurs]

I don't understand why some people are so results oriented after one game. Especially after a single great offensive performance against one of the worst (if not worst) defensive teams in the league (before this game, Neal had been chucking up a whopping 39% from the field the past 11 games, attempting 12 shots per contest-- but hey lets make this thread after crushing the defenseless Rockets). By no means am I trying to rain on Neal's parade, he had a great game and took advantage of the opportunities he received tonight ( kudos to him), but it's pretty foolish for people to use this circus of a game as excuse for him being untradeable. Those wide open efficient shots/opportunities that Neal gets against these type of teams won't be there when games really matter (if there will be any, there will be very few).

Regardless of this game, Spurs should keep Neal on the trade market to see if the right trade comes along that can improve the team, especially considering how resigning Neal for 4-5 mil per year (around his market value) makes little sense considering their salary cap situation come summer time.

But of course, if nothing worthy materializes on the trade market for Neal/Blair's services, they're better off just keeping both players to make the best push possible come late spring/early summer.

I agree with everything you said plus people here want to trade our trash in order to get gold back and that usually doesn't work unless you're the Lakers.

[spurs1990]

he can get 5-7 mil this offseason





Regardless of this game, Spurs should keep Neal on the trade market to see if the right trade comes along that can improve the team, especially considering how resigning Neal for 4-5 mil per year (around his market value) makes little sense considering their salary cap situation come summer time.



Incredible that Gary is on the verge of commanding an annual contract 2 to 3 times what he made his entire 3 seasons in San Antonio. I think he's one of the most underpaid players in the NBA.

[Chinook]

Gary Neal should not be in any trade conversations this season. He's a clutch shooter and a big part of what this team does. Move Blair and/or Bonner if it makes sense, but don't move Gary Neal.

Yeah, because teams are willing to give the Spurs good pieces for players that San Antonio doesn't want... It's like people don't understand why teams make trades in the first place. It's usually not just to get rid of players. If the Spurs move Neal, it'll be because they like what they are getting back more than what they are giving up. I trust them on that.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because teams are willing to give the Spurs good pieces for players that San Antonio doesn't want... It's like people don't understand why teams make trades in the first place. It's usually not just to get rid of players. If the Spurs move Neal, it'll be because they like what they are getting back more than what they are giving up. I trust them on that.

Scola says hi #bluefont

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't understand why some people are so results oriented after one game. Especially after a single great offensive performance against one of the worst (if not worst) defensive teams in the league (before this game, Neal had been chucking up a whopping 39% from the field the past 11 games, attempting 12 shots per contest-- but hey lets make this thread after crushing the defenseless Rockets). By no means am I trying to rain on Neal's parade, he had a great game and took advantage of the opportunities he received tonight ( kudos to him), but it's pretty foolish for people to use this circus of a game as excuse for him being untradeable. Those wide open efficient shots/opportunities that Neal gets against these type of teams won't be there when games really matter (if there will be any, there will be very few).


Regardless of this game, Spurs should keep Neal on the trade market to see if the right trade comes along that can improve the team, especially considering how resigning Neal for 4-5 mil per year (around his market value) makes little sense considering their salary cap situation come summer time.

But of course, if nothing worthy materializes on the trade market for Neal/Blair's services, they're better off just keeping both players to make the best push possible come late spring/early summer.


It's not because of one game. Neal has had 6 games of 17 points or more, as well as multiple 20+ point games already this season. He can be a little inconsistent at times, and I still cringe when he has to play PG for the Spurs, but I think he's on his way to his best season yet with the team. Factor in the improved defense and you've got a bargain on your hands.

I understand the logic of Neal being considered expendable because of the logjam in the backcourt, but I'd be much more on board of letting him go if we can get a solid big back. People assume because of this team's high powered offense that replacing Neal would be very simple (Patty Mills has a good imitation I'm sure) but I think a lot of fans would be surprised on the nights that the Spurs do struggle offensively, how the lack of Neal would really be felt.

The Portland game (27 points from Neal) and the Houston are both games we should have lost. Other players deserve credit, don't get me wrong, but Neal just takes over and more often than not and delivers.

[Chinook]

Lol, yeah, and there are other bad examples besides the Scola trade when the Spurs are salary-dumping/panicking. But that doesn't mean Pop doesn't have a good bead on what the team needs. He can be wrong in his execution (Jefferson), but he's usually right in his motivations. I just don't get how people can doubt a coach who in the very least has built the best system in the NBA.

[crc21209]

Basically the only trade chips the Spurs have are Blair and Bonner. At this point, and as timvp has already mentioned...the Spurs can't trade Splitter anymore. He just fits this team too well. The Diaw/Splitter/De Colo/Manu lineup is a great 4-some off the bench because they can all pass the ball so damn well. And they can't trade Neal because he has the balls to make the game winning shot. A team would be lucky enough to have one guy like that, and we have TWO cold blooded shooters in Jack and Neal. So at this point, all they have to try and trade is Bonner and Blair...

[Chinook]

I'd be much more on board of letting him go if we can get a solid big back.

This is what people are saying. If there is a solid big to be had, Neal is expendable. Some people in this thread say no even under those circumstances. We can argue (and have) about who counts as a solid big, and whether a trade for such a big is plausible, but I feel like a good big is more than worth trading Neal.

[Juggity]

People consistently underestimate what Gary brings to this team. At this point, he is becoming quite valuable and his defense is much improved. I can't think of any currently available bigs who'd bring more to the table than Gary does right now.

[Chinook]

People consistently underestimate what Gary brings to this team. At this point, he is becoming quite valuable and his defense is much improved. I can't think of any currently available bigs who'd bring more to the table than Gary does right now.

No one is underestimating Neal. Saying that he is tradeable is not saying he is a bad player. People on this forum say, "Trade Blair or Bonner, not Neal," like what other teams value enough to give up a player the Spurs want doesn't factor into this. What people have done consistently is overestimate the uniqueness of Neal's skillset. He's an unconscious shooter on the second-best offensive team in the league. He's a clutch player on a team with (at least) four other clutch players. The Spurs can score plenty without him. And I know people are going to respond with, "But when the system breaks down, Neal can still get points." And that's true, but the Spurs are only going to go as far as their system takes them anyway. If Neal has to play "hero ball" in the playoffs, the Spurs are done.

Currently available bigs probably can't give the Spurs what Neal can. But Neal can't give the Spurs what most bigs can, as well. The question for the Spurs' front office is if the addition of an available big combined with other players picking up the offensive slack will lead to a better team than they have now.

[Chinook]

timvp , do you have an opinion of Neal's tradeability? We seem to be at loggerheads here.

[deibero]

the guy makes aprox 1m this season. theres nothing you can get in return in this league that will get you equal value to neal's contract... any stiff makes more than that.

only option is packaging him together with bonner and getting a 5m player back, because with blair it only gives you 2m to add back, which is still nothing.

[superjames1992]

If we could get a solid big for him, I'd trade him in a heartbeat. We have a plethora of guards on this team. Meanwhile, our frontline is sketchy (though improving) and we could certainly use some outside help on that front. If you want a solid big, you're going to have to give up something to get it...

His salary seems to be an issue, though.

[jiggy_55]

Green and Neal were both fantastic against Houston, both are integral parts of this team, and both are indispensable. It's that simple. Neal is averaging a career best in points despite his 3p% being a few percentage points lower than previous years (even when including this game) and he's doing that in just 3 extra minutes per game due to the injuries of Kawhi and Sjax.

I would really hope Pop stops experimenting with him at PG in tight games, as he's simply not a point guard and that's clear. Although sometimes he excels and can make great passes, he's just too turnover or mistake prone and I would rather see Nando or Manu running the point while Neal sticks to shooting guard and shoots lights out. I was surprised at why Nando wasn't used in the second half I thought he did ok and he's definitely the better PG and runs the pick and roll beautifully with Splitter and our other bigs.

[Boomersgold]

Green and Neal were both fantastic against Houston, both are integral parts of this team, and both are indispensable. It's that simple. Neal is averaging a career best in points despite his 3p% being a few percentage points lower than previous years (even when including this game) and he's doing that in just 3 extra minutes per game due to the injuries of Kawhi and Sjax.

I would really hope Pop stops experimenting with him at PG in tight games, as he's simply not a point guard and that's clear. Although sometimes he excels and can make great passes, he's just too turnover or mistake prone and I would rather see Nando or Manu running the point while Neal sticks to shooting guard and shoots lights out. I was surprised at why Nando wasn't used in the second half I thought he did ok and he's definitely the better PG and runs the pick and roll beautifully with Splitter and our other bigs.

De Colo was used in the second half...

[Mal]

Why would anybody trade Neal ? He is cheap, and trading him for late 1rd pick make no sense at all, and not sure if anybody would trade for him. Spurs will have salary space with Manu, Jax and Booner off the books.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

If Gary Neal for Marcin Gortat straight up was on the table, take it. Otherwise, you'd better not be trading Gary Neal's coldblooded shotmaking ability to get a guy whos a traffic cone in the lane.

[DejuanorwhatDude]

In fact, the way we're playing right now, why is anyone interested in trading anyone at all? You might be able to get a player back in return that fixes one area of the team (interior defense) but you just open up another hole. Whatever we're doing seems to be working. IMO its not worth it to fuck with team chemistry unless you're getting a steal for the trade.

[FkLA]

All of you who suggested we cut him are dumbasses. Those that wanted him at the end of the bench behind Patty are stupid too. Guys who have balls made of steel and make under one mill dont grow on trees. Add to it the fact that Manu is really the only guy who handles the ball alot and comes up big in crunchtime, and it just made zero sense to get rid of Gary. Dude is an assassin tbh.

[DapDaGenius]

You don't trade someone like Neal, he is a great shooter and beat a rape charge. C'mon now. If we traded Neal hopefully it would be for a young athletic big man with great amounts of potential.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Everyone but Duncan can be traded for the right pieces, tbh. Neal is definitely on the trading block too. Spurs will not use 5 swingmen in the playoffs.

[Boomersgold]

You don't trade someone like Neal, he is a great shooter and beat a rape charge. C'mon now. If we traded Neal hopefully it would be for a young athletic big man with great amounts of potential.

How do you feel about Donatas Motiejūnas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatas_Motiej%C5%ABnas)? I hear he's pretty good and put up great numbers in summer league.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

How do you feel about Donatas Motiejūnas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatas_Motiej%C5%ABnas)? I hear he's pretty good and put up great numbers in summer league.

Motiejunas's trade value is much higher than Neal's. Would be an awesome trade if Houston are dumb enough though.

[99 Problems]

When you consider the value teams place on all out shooters in the draft recently, Jimmer, Beal, even Rivers, we are very fortunate to have guys like Neal & Mills who so far have cost us next to nothing.

[DapDaGenius]

How do you feel about Donatas Motiejūnas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatas_Motiej%C5%ABnas)? I hear he's pretty good and put up great numbers in summer league.

He could have some potential with the Spurs, he seems to be a very quick thinker and have good reaction speed. But overall I'm not sure about him stats wise, bc I forgot about him until now and I didn't keep up with him. Is he still on the Rockets....or what? His stats on NBA.com say he has only played 4 games???? He seems to be decent at least as of now, so why hasn't he played more? Again I don't know what has happened with him/even if he is on the team or put in the d-league...

[Boomersgold]

He could have some potential with the Spurs, he seems to be a very quick thinker and have good reaction speed. But overall I'm not sure about him stats wise, bc I forgot about him until now and I didn't keep up with him. Is he still on the Rockets....or what? His stats on NBA.com say he has only played 4 games???? He seems to be decent at least as of now, so why hasn't he played more? Again I don't know what has happened with him/even if he is on the team or put in the d-league...

He played really well in the summer league, averaging 16 points and 8 rebounds. Coach Mchale just doesn't use him. I believe he's currently with the Rockets.

[DapDaGenius]

He played really well in the summer league, averaging 16 points and 8 rebounds. Coach Mchale just doesn't use him. I believe he's currently with the Rockets.

Nice, but are we sure that this is a guy we would trade Neal for? I mean Neal gives us depth at PG and SG and has came through for us plenty of times.

Wouldn't it make more sense that we trade someone like Nando? ESPN Trade machine says a Nando-Montiejunas trade would work and on top of that, both teams would be in the need of one of those players. The Rockets are stocked with like 8 bigs while the Spurs have 7 people at the SG and PG positions.

I'm just not sure if trading Neal for this guy(who is unproven so far in the NBA) would be wise, to me it would make more sense to trade Nando because both don't have too much NBA experience under their belt.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

[Mel_13]

he can get 5-7 mil this offseason

People said the same thing about Green last summer. If the Spurs don't trade Neal, they'll make him a restricted free agent. 29 year old, undersized shooting guards that are restricted free agents will have a limited market. There may be some team willing to use their full MLE on him, but I don't believe it's likely.



This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

Proof that Chinook is the best new poster that this board has seen in some time.

[100%duncan]

yeah, let's trade someone that actually fucking helps the win column......

fucking shoot me already..

:lmao

[letmk]

That's your opinion of Neal's relative value, and you're very much entitled to it. You should go over to the Think Tank for more-directed discussion on trade ideas. I'll say this here, though: There is no reason why Neal can't be a starting two-guard. There are systems like Phoenix' from years past and Orlando with Howard where Neal could start just fine. The reason he doesn't have that opportunity with the Spurs is that Danny Green fills the role better. Ideally, the Spurs' wings would be interchangeable, defending and shooting corner threes. Neal can't really play small-forward though, so that hurts his value in the starting line up. That's also the reason why Pop pushes for Neal to play the point off the bench.

Also, he can certainly be the centerpiece for teams like the Wolves. If they want to trade Williams, and (key phrase) if Pop thinks Williams could help the Spurs this year (and he'd have to, to commit the Spurs to that contract), then a Neal + filler for Williams deal is very possible. The better Neal plays, the more possible those deals become.

Let's use a simple math even though it might be inaccurate. Basically, Neal means 7 to us at a very low price but only 3 to other teams. So he is nearly untradeable in this sense. It's not that you don't trade your LeBron or Durant. No, not at all.

So either you can't get players that can help Spurs more than Neal, or if the other team is willing to part with this kind of player, they want more than Neal.

[Captivus]

When looking at Neal i dont look at his stats, like FG%. I dont have to, i have seen with my own eyes a lot of games where I find miself thinking:
"Ok...now if we could just score 2 points in the next 2 minutes I will be happy". In those situations theres no one like Neal. BAM!

PROS:
- Cheap
- Clutch
- Excelent shooter

CONS:
- Short for a SG - This for me is the main problem, because if you play him with Parker/Mills/Cory then the backcourt is very small...unless you play him with Nando
- 28 Years old - He is not going to play 50% better than he is now, i think he is reaching his peak
- Lacks defensive skill

Theres a rule in business and it works like this: You give something and you get something in return. The key is that the value for each party should be even.
You cant trade Bonner and get Millsap...you just cant. Not because of stats, not because of salary, because Millsap is worth more for them that Bonner.

Maybe you can trade Bonner/Blair/Mills/Cory....the question is obvious: Who need them, who assigns value to this players??
Maybe teams prefeer Cory/Mills rather than Neal...i mean...maybe they dont score like Neal (?) but they are younger, can play PG.
Blair is young too...the problem with him is that he is "big", i would be surprised if the Spurs could trade a "big" for a big (as centerpiece...they should probably give something more)

Ok...im rambling...better get to work!!!

I like Neal a lot...i would try to keep him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Theres a rule in business and it works like this: You give something and you get something in return. The key is that the value for each party should be even.



Oh no, not at all actually - the rule is : buy low, sell high.

[letmk]

This attitude is why people on here propose so many unrealistic trades. You can't get good players by trading bad players. You have to give up something you'd rather keep in hopes that what you get back will offset what you let go. Neal is valuable to this team, and that makes him valuable to other teams. But the second-best offensive team in the league would probably be able to handle the loss of a shooter. No one is saying to just get rid of Neal. He should not be moved for a second-rounder or anything that won't help the team right now, but if the Spurs can trade him along with other pieces for the player they think puts them over the top, they have to do it.

What you are going is correct in principle and I don't disagree with that. Technically, you are right. Save for the Gasol rob, you can't get good players with bad players.

But in reality, a team can still get good trade when a player means less to you but more to your trade partner (or so the trade partner thinks). That's the key.

On the contrary, when a player means more to you than his market value, you are bound to make a bad trade. And I think Neal falls into this category.

[8FOR!3]

James Anderson's got to show a lot more offensively before you think about trading Neal. Not to mention his actual value to the team far exceeds his trade value. He's never tentative. Sure, it means stupid shots sometimes, but more often than not he's a big help to this offense.

[Texas_Ranger]

Gary Neal's defense is pathetic, he makes a lot of stupid decisions on offense, he can't run the point and he's too small for a PG/SG...... after all that I think it would be pretty idiotic to trade him, cause he's one of the guys that actually haves balls when it matters.

[Ice009]

Gary said in a interview after the game that Pop hasn't really said anything to him about his shot selection at all. He said he is out there to get buckets. His teammates expect him to shoot the ball.

[spurspokesman]

Gary Neal's defense is pathetic, he makes a lot of stupid decisions on offense, he can't run the point and he's too small for a PG/SG...... after all that I think it would be pretty idiotic to trade him, cause he's one of the guys that actually haves balls when it matters.

My thoughts exactly.

[Chinook]

Let's use a simple math even though it might be inaccurate. Basically, Neal means 7 to us at a very low price but only 3 to other teams. So he is nearly untradeable in this sense. It's not that you don't trade your LeBron or Durant. No, not at all.

So either you can't get players that can help Spurs more than Neal, or if the other team is willing to part with this kind of player, they want more than Neal.

That's not fair to say at all. Neal has a lower value with the Spurs than he does with other teams. That's because he can't consistently play shooting guard in the Spurs system, and because the Spurs' system can generate offense without having players like Neal who can get his own shot and shoot at an incredibly high percentage with defenders in his face. There are teams that desperately need players who can do this. (The Knicks used to be this way before this year, and teams like Minny need someone who's scoring isn't going to depend on him always having the ball in his hands.)

I don't know what Neal's market value is, but I know it's higher now that it really should be. Kind of like with George Hill, who could do about as much as Neal can offensively (though he's not the same level of shooter, he had the ability to get his own shot in addition to fitting the Spurs' system better than Neal does), while being the Spurs' designated guard-defender. People argued whether what he brought was irreplaceable, and some people thought he was so valuable that the Spurs should have traded Parker instead. But what happened? The Spurs got a player they felt helped them more than Hill could while replacing Hill's production with Green and Neal. If Pop thinks the Spurs can weather the loss of Neal's offense (and I wouldn't shock me at all if he does) then Neal's value to other teams makes trading him a smart move.

The issue you really should be getting at is that Neal's contract is too small to bring back a good player. Other players have to go with him to make the numbers work. But that's a different argument than saying Neal player for player has a low value; he doesn't.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's not fair to say at all. Neal has a lower value with the Spurs than he does with other teams. That's because he can't consistently play shooting guard in the Spurs system, and because the Spurs' system can generate offense without having players like Neal who can get his own shot and shoot at an incredibly high percentage with defenders in his face. There are teams that desperately need players who can do this. (The Knicks used to be this way before this year, and teams like Minny need someone who's scoring isn't going to depend on him always having the ball in his hands.)

I don't know what Neal's market value is, but I know it's higher now that it really should be. Kind of like with George Hill, who could do about as much as Neal can offensively (though he's not the same level of shooter, he had the ability to get his own shot in addition to fitting the Spurs' system better than Neal does), while being the Spurs' designated guard-defender. People argued whether what he brought was irreplaceable, and some people thought he was so valuable that the Spurs should have traded Parker instead. But what happened? The Spurs got a player they felt helped them more than Hill could while replacing Hill's production with Green and Neal. If Pop thinks the Spurs can weather the loss of Neal's offense (and I wouldn't shock me at all if he does) then Neal's value to other teams makes trading him a smart move.

The issue you really should be getting at is that Neal's contract is too small to bring back a good player. Other players have to go with him to make the numbers work. But that's a different argument than saying Neal player for player has a low value; he doesn't.

Agree with all of this.

Gary Neal is 5th in the swingmen depth when everyone is healthy. He's good and he helps the Spurs, but he's by no means irreplaceable. Pop is very likely to go with 3 swingmen, mainly, in the playoffs, or 4 if some small ball is needed. We all know he's not too good at PG and compared to the 4 swingmen ahead of him he's the only one who cannot play at the 3 spot and he's easily the worst defender. Actually I'd say his main value is that he allows the Spurs to also explore trades for the other swingmen above him because he could seamlessly step up. He might likely have more value to another team in the Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford role.

[Fireball]

I was always iffy because of Neals defense ... this year he has shown improvement as does the whole Spurs team ... so I think we should keep him because with his contract we will not get something valuable in return. Neal should not be the backup PG when Kawhi returns though ...

[Jumi]

Some of you guys suffer from the "Green Grass Syndrome!" Neal does what he's paid to do and he does it quite well! I think of him as an "offensive specialist" in the same mode as other guys who are needed strictly for rebounding or perimeter defense. They fulfill a role on a sucessful team! You can't win consistently without'em! With Manu's health issues and other guys on the team choosing the worst possible times to forget how to play basketball (playoff chokers!), Neal service is invaluable!!!!!

[ElNono]

I don't understand why some people are so results oriented after one game. Especially after a single great offensive performance against one of the worst (if not worst) defensive teams in the league (before this game, Neal had been chucking up a whopping 39% from the field the past 11 games, attempting 12 shots per contest-- but hey lets make this thread after crushing the defenseless Rockets). By no means am I trying to rain on Neal's parade, he had a great game and took advantage of the opportunities he received tonight ( kudos to him), but it's pretty foolish for people to use this circus of a game as excuse for him being untradeable. Those wide open efficient shots/opportunities that Neal gets against these type of teams won't be there when games really matter (if there will be any, there will be very few).

Regardless of this game, Spurs should keep Neal on the trade market to see if the right trade comes along that can improve the team, especially considering how resigning Neal for 4-5 mil per year (around his market value) makes little sense considering their salary cap situation come summer time.

But of course, if nothing worthy materializes on the trade market for Neal/Blair's services, they're better off just keeping both players to make the best push possible come late spring/early summer.

I was gonna say... I swear I saw this thread 3 seasons ago and was called "Tonight is why trading RMJ might not be worth it..." :lol

Neal improvement this season is palpable in certain areas, which include hustling on defense, but this raises another question: Is it actual season-to-season improvement or is it because it's a contract season for him?

I love Gary, wish the Spurs can retain him, but I understand he should test the market if he keeps playing like this.

[Raven]

How do you feel about Donatas Motiejūnas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatas_Motiej%C5%ABnas)? I hear he's pretty good and put up great numbers in summer league.

bargnani.

[Captivus]

How fast can the Spurs "way of playing" adjust if they get a big and they lose a shooter or more?
Thats also something to think about.
What about rebuilding the team? When do the Spurs start to do that?
We have young players that will be starters sooner than later.

Just to give an example: What if the Lakers call and want to trade Gasol for Neal, Nando and Blair (didnt check if possible)
What then? How much would the Spurs risk their future in order to have a higher chance of winning this year?

Maybe trading Jackson (contract), Neal and Mills/Corey is a good way of getting young talent...although not increasing winning chances this year.

[Raven]

if he scores another 20+ point in the next game, i say trade him for a top 8 pick if someone gives it.. otherwise, just keep him.

[Chinook]

How fast can the Spurs "way of playing" adjust if they get a big and they lose a shooter or more?
Thats also something to think about.
What about rebuilding the team? When do the Spurs start to do that?
We have young players that will be starters sooner than later.

Just to give an example: What if the Lakers call and want to trade Gasol for Neal, Nando and Blair (didnt check if possible)
What then? How much would the Spurs risk their future in order to have a higher chance of winning this year?

Maybe trading Jackson (contract), Neal and Mills/Corey is a good way of getting young talent...although not increasing winning chances this year.

:rollin

[Seventyniner]

Q: Why is Gary Neal always early to practice?
A: Because he gets all green lights along the way

[Captivus]

:rollin

You know what i meant...trading old for young, thats the scenario...
Just for fun i try to make it...i didnt work...this is the closest i got, without giving up all the young players:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wqofvk (NOT SERIOUS!!)


Or what about this!
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=baz6p5z (NOT SERIOUS!!)

My question remains...trading young for old to increase chance this year...i dont know...

[ffadicted]

Reading this thread hurts my brain.... I think I'm actually dumber now from having read it all

[superbigtime]

Might not be worth it? Ya think? Trading Gary Neal would be a tragic mistake. Trade one of the best pure shooting ice cold mofo 2 guard ballers in the league? How fucking stupid is that? Neal is one of those diamond in the rough finds this franchise is known for and made of. Absolutely stupid. Trading G Neal for someone to 'put the spurs over the top?' Neal IS that guy who will help this team get it done. Splitter, Kawhi, Jax, Neal and Green ... these are the guys. The only players who should be considered tradeable are Bonner, Blair and Mills. And there won't be any trades anyway.

[Obstructed_View]

yeah, let's trade someone that actually fucking helps the win column......

fucking shoot me already..

Following one good idea with an even better one. Well done!

[benefactor]

Neal keeps Pop's inner Don Nelson satisfied. That's pretty important tbh.

[Gagnrath]

Gary Neal is a middle aged player on a rookie contract. His primary NBA skill 3, point shooting does translate fairly well to older players. That said no one is going to give you a cheap athletic big man with potential for any 28 y/o 3 point specialist on his contracts last year. The idea that a team would is a complete joke, and that is all his contract value can't match that of a proven big man. The spurs don't have a bunch of big trade exceptions to package either.

[Paranoid Pop]

Gary Neal is a middle aged player on a rookie contract. His primary NBA skill 3, point shooting does translate fairly well to older players. That said no one is going to give you a cheap athletic big man with potential for any 28 y/o 3 point specialist on his contracts last year. The idea that a team would is a complete joke, and that is all his contract value can't match that of a proven big man. The spurs don't have a bunch of big trade exceptions to package either.

If they make a trade they can't go for someone proven, but a player doesn't have to be proven to be better than Blair.

In hindsight drafting Joseph when we could have taken Parsons was a very big blunder, would have made our roster so much more balanced and we could have shipped SJax without thinking twice. Instead we're stuck with 4 back up point guards and our turds tower that can't play in the playoffs so SJax is the best back up PF by defaut.

[Gagnrath]

Heck proven is even of a big stretch; a rough big man with a good attitude, and the athletics to have potential are usually at a contract higher than Neal's current one.

[Brunodf]

If they make a trade they can't go for someone proven, but a player doesn't have to be proven to be better than Blair.

In hindsight drafting Joseph when we could have taken Parsons was a very big blunder, would have made our roster so much more balanced and we could have shipped SJax without thinking twice. Instead we're stuck with 4 back up point guards and our turds tower that can't play in the playoffs so SJax is the best back up PF by defaut.

I was mad when the Spurs chose CoJo, but Parsons isn't that good either, Rockets fans want to trade him because he is soft and can't play defense or rebound. I would rather take Isaiah Thomas.

[Raven]

I was mad when the Spurs chose CoJo, but Parsons isn't that good either, Rockets fans want to trade him because he is soft and can't play defense or rebound. I would rather take Isaiah Thomas.

He is playing because he does defend. Until this year Parsons reputation was "great defende, nice guy but no offensive game whatsover". Isaiah is a joke, cmon..

[Brunodf]

He is playing because he does defend. Until this year Parsons reputation was "great defende, nice guy but no offensive game whatsover". Isaiah is a joke, cmon..

Rockets fans and His df% disagree

And Isaiah would be a solid backup pg and really cheap