SuperTeam 1-10 when Kobe scores 30+

[Brunodf]

8-3 when scores below 30
Coincidence?

[DMC]

Hard to tell. Start a few more Lakers threads maybe we'll find out.

[Baseline]

Bryant could care less. He just wants his points, and he's not afraid to say so. His idea of "team play" is pointing a finger at the rest of the guys.

Seriously, how to Laker fans put up with this guy? It's just embarrassing.

[Clipper Nation]

Bryant could care less. He just wants his points, and he's not afraid to say so. His idea of "team play" is pointing a finger at the rest of the guys.

Seriously, how to Laker fans put up with this guy? It's just embarrassing.

I could never root for that bum, I'm so glad he didn't end up signing with us in '04, tbh...

[HI-FI]

Bryant could care less. He just wants his points, and he's not afraid to say so. His idea of "team play" is pointing a finger at the rest of the guys.

Seriously, how to Laker fans put up with this guy? It's just embarrassing.
it says a lot about LA fans tbh. if Bryant was a Spur, I couldn't tolerate someone who is a ballhog and lockeroom cancer. and before people say, "Kobe's got 5 rings, neal with it", the sad truth is Kobe should've had much more rings. He's had the best teams money can buy, whatever is wrong with Kobe has sabotaged chances at much greater success.

[spurraider21]

You could also argue in games they are losing he is forced to go into hero mode which adds to his point totals.

[DMC]

it says a lot about LA fans tbh. if Bryant was a Spur, I couldn't tolerate someone who is a ballhog and lockeroom cancer. and before people say, "Kobe's got 5 rings, neal with it", the sad truth is Kobe should've had much more rings. He's had the best teams money can buy, whatever is wrong with Kobe has sabotaged chances at much greater success.

Not a lockerroom cancer but Terry Cummings wasn't exactly an assist machine.

[FkLA]

There was a stat years ago before the Heatles formed, where Kobe had more 40 point games than Wade and Bron combined. And more 30 point games than either of them. He was also the only one of the three to average over 20 shots (he was like at 23 per game). This was despite him having the most dominant frontcourt in the NBA and Bron and Wade being on Cav and Heat teams that lacked talent. It really doesnt matter who he was around him hes gonna get his tbh.

If I had to guess why he does that I would say in his egotistical mind he really does think him scoring a bunch of points gives the Lakers the best chance to win. Thats part of what makes him such a great scorer when hes on but also why hes such a sorry teammate. I would hate playing alongside this faggot tbh.

[JRHernandez88]

Kobe going for the records now he said fuk yo team clown

[DMC]

There was a stat years ago before the Heatles formed, where Kobe had more 40 point games than Wade and Bron combined. And more 30 point games than either of them. He was also the only one of the three to average over 20 shots (he was like at 23 per game). This was despite him having the most dominant frontcourt in the NBA and Bron and Wade being on Cav and Heat teams that lacked talent. It really doesnt matter who he was around him hes gonna get his tbh.

If I had to guess why he does that I would say in his egotistical mind he really does think him scoring a bunch of points gives the Lakers the best chance to win. Thats part of what makes him such a great scorer when hes on but also why hes such a sorry teammate. I would hate playing alongside this faggot tbh.

Nah, he's spent his entire career trying to be like Mike. He's copied every mannerism he could outside of smoking a cigar. Mike could take over, but was smart enough to use his teammates efficiently. Kobe just sees the offensive aspect of Mike's game. Mike was a motherfucker on defense. Kobe was also spoiled by the Lakers with Shaq and Pau. Kobe's had success despite his bad shot selection and volume shooting. He's worshiped for an 81pt game, no one worships a guy who was just one of 8 people in double figures on a team that plays a balanced offense. Everything he's seen in the NBA and from the NBA has said he's doing it right. Basketball common sense says he's not. He's a businessman though, and the corporation of Kobe Bryant isn't a charitable organization. He has to keep his stock up. Winning another ring might seem to be the way to do that, but in reality another ring would be "meh". He's trying to be like Mike. Being like Mike has always been his goal. Plus he's just a sorry prick.

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe going for the records now he said fuk yo team clown

No, he said "fuck my team, clown"....

[JRHernandez88]

No, he said "fuck my team, clown"....
I meant towards Dwight tbh but yeah funny either way

[FkLA]

Nah, he's spent his entire career trying to be like Mike. He's copied every mannerism he could outside of smoking a cigar. Mike could take over, but was smart enough to use his teammates efficiently. Kobe just sees the offensive aspect of Mike's game. Mike was a motherfucker on defense. Kobe was also spoiled by the Lakers with Shaq and Pau. Kobe's had success despite his bad shot selection and volume shooting. He's worshiped for an 81pt game, no one worships a guy who was just one of 8 people in double figures on a team that plays a balanced offense. Everything he's seen in the NBA and from the NBA has said he's doing it right. Basketball common sense says he's not. He's a businessman though, and the corporation of Kobe Bryant isn't a charitable organization. He has to keep his stock up. Winning another ring might seem to be the way to do that, but in reality another ring would be "meh". He's trying to be like Mike. Being like Mike has always been his goal. Plus he's just a sorry prick.

Agree with most of what you said, the way he tries to be not just the same player but same person as Mike is creepy as shit. I do think he cares about winning though, but like you said hes never been able to see how much using teammates efficiently would help him with that, so the winning basically has to be done on his terms. With him getting his points. Its been that way since 04' when he got tired of being Shaqs Robin.

[Baseline]

You could also argue in games they are losing he is forced to go into hero mode which adds to his point totals.

Spurraider, this is totally true. But he also does it when they're winning. I'll guarantee you that Bryant is far and away the top garbage time scorer in NBA history. I've lived in LA for about 14 years - arrived the same year Bryant said he wouldn't play in Charlotte, so Jerry West traded for him. The interesting thing about his refusal to play in Charlotte is that had he stayed there, nobody would ever have cared about this guy. I've seen a jillion Laker games, and Bryant has always had the same MO. He plays hero ball all the time. In fact, it's all he knows.

It never ceases to amaze me how Bryant will play hero ball even when they're winning. Make it a point to watch Bryant in closing minutes of games they're up 12-14 points. In otehr words, the game's over, yet he's playing at warp-speed, jacking up shot after shot in garbage time to pad his point total. Well, guess what - despite the fact that Bryant has played most of his career with dominant big men, including the most dominant ever, his career shooting percentage is only 45.4. People...Monta Ellis has a higher career shooting percentage. Seriously, look it up. Monta's is 46.1. But Monta Ellis is a total gunner right? Here's another comparison to chew on...Tony Parker's career shooting percentage is 49.3, and Parker couldn't even shoot until two years ago.

For whatever reason, Bryant has been allowed to gun it with no conscience for his entire career. There's no explanation for it other than the fact that Laker fans love flash. Bryant is simply a volume shooter. Yes, he's also an alpha dog - who has been off leash for 14 years.

[DMC]

Agree with most of what you said, the way he tries to be not just the same player but same person as Mike is creepy as shit. I do think he cares about winning though, but like you said hes never been able to see how much using teammates efficiently would help him with that, so the winning basically has to be done on his terms. With him getting his points. Its been that way since 04' when he got tired of being Shaqs Robin.

I think he knows it would improve his chances, but given that chance vs getting his points, he chooses the latter. He's not unique, the league was and is rife with players who care more about their stats than about the team. They weren't fortunate enough to have a rich uncle Jerry to buy them big ass friends to take up the slack.

[spurraider21]

Spurraider, this is totally true. But he also does it when they're winning. I'll guarantee you that Bryant is far and away the top garbage time scorer in NBA history. I've lived in LA for about 14 years - arrived the same year Bryant said he wouldn't play in Charlotte, so Jerry West traded for him. The interesting thing about his refusal to play in Charlotte is that had he stayed there, nobody would ever have cared about this guy. I've seen a jillion Laker games, and Bryant has always had the same MO. He plays hero ball all the time. In fact, it's all he knows.

It never ceases to amaze me how Bryant will play hero ball even when they're winning. Make it a point to watch Bryant in closing minutes of games they're up 12-14 points. In otehr words, the game's over, yet he's playing at warp-speed, jacking up shot after shot in garbage time to pad his point total. Well, guess what - despite the fact that Bryant has played most of his career with dominant big men, including the most dominant ever, his career shooting percentage is only 45.4. People...Monta Ellis has a higher career shooting percentage. Seriously, look it up. Monta's is 46.1. But Monta Ellis is a total gunner right? Here's another comparison to chew on...Tony Parker's career shooting percentage is 49.3, and Parker couldn't even shoot until two years ago.

For whatever reason, Bryant has been allowed to gun it with no conscience for his entire career. There's no explanation for it other than the fact that Laker fans love flash. Bryant is simply a volume shooter. Yes, he's also an alpha dog - who has been off leash for 14 years.

You're absolutely correct. I, too have lived in LA, all my life in fact, so I've watched pretty much every Lakers game that they've played. Can't stand the talk in town that he's Jordan, or sometimes better than Jordan

[Baseline]

Nah, he's spent his entire career trying to be like Mike. He's copied every mannerism he could outside of smoking a cigar. Mike could take over, but was smart enough to use his teammates efficiently. Kobe just sees the offensive aspect of Mike's game. Mike was a motherfucker on defense. Kobe was also spoiled by the Lakers with Shaq and Pau. Kobe's had success despite his bad shot selection and volume shooting. He's worshiped for an 81pt game, no one worships a guy who was just one of 8 people in double figures on a team that plays a balanced offense. Everything he's seen in the NBA and from the NBA has said he's doing it right. Basketball common sense says he's not. He's a businessman though, and the corporation of Kobe Bryant isn't a charitable organization. He has to keep his stock up. Winning another ring might seem to be the way to do that, but in reality another ring would be "meh". He's trying to be like Mike. Being like Mike has always been his goal. Plus he's just a sorry prick.

Right on, DMC. Perhaps the only thing Bryant does more of than shoot is play the blame game. He gets Shaquille shipped out of town while Shaquille is still dominant, then proceeds to lead "his team" to entirely missing the playoffs, then he cries to the media about not having any help. Meanwhile, Shaquille wins a title with another, more efficient 2-guard.

Miraculously, Laker fans are now crying that Bryant doesn't have enough help to win this year, when he has arguably more help than he's ever had.

So I agree with DMC's point - I'm not convinced that Bryant's main objective at this point is to win another championship. Frankly, if he was all about winning, he never would have had Shaquille shipped out of town. That made no sense whatsoever in terms of winning. The Lakers made their choice, and they went with Bryant. That was actually a very stupid choice until the Laker organization was bailed out by...Stern?...and Pau Gasol arrived via the murkiest tradde in the history of the league. Ask Popovich how he felt about that trade.

So from where I'm sitting, Pau Gasol saved Bryant from going down as the most selfish player ever to play. Granted, he still is the most selfish ever to play. But Bryant was going nowhere fast with Kwame Brown in the pivot, and Pau Gasol made it all better in Lakerland. Of course, now Pau has become the scapegoat for all the Lakers' current problems.

I'll never understand how - regardless of what happens - Bryant comes out smelling like a rose. I would say that he's made a deal with the devil. But we all know that deal would have to be brokered by Stern, and Stern makes all the Laker deals. So the devil will have to hang out in the waiting room reading People magazine like the rest of us.

[FkLA]

I think he knows it would improve his chances, but given that chance vs getting his points, he chooses the latter. He's not unique, the league was and is rife with players who care more about their stats than about the team. They weren't fortunate enough to have a rich uncle Jerry to buy them big ass friends to take up the slack.

Very possible as well. Either way hes still a selfish piece of shit tbh.

[Jacob1983]

and an alleged rapist.

[Seventyniner]

I was talking to a friend during the Cavs/Lakers game. At one point he told me that Kobe had 29 points and the Lakers were down 4. I told him that D'Antoni should sit Kobe the rest of the game, cause the Lakers would lose if Kobe scored again.

[TampaDude]

You're absolutely correct. I, too have lived in LA, all my life in fact, so I've watched pretty much every Lakers game that they've played. Can't stand the talk in town that he's Jordan, or sometimes better than Jordan

MJ in his prime would piss all over Kobe and call it rain.

[Clipper Nation]

Shots fired by CP3? :lol

278737776315363328

[ElNono]

Shots fired by CP3? :lol

278737776315363328

Oh no he didn't... :lmao

[FkLA]

Shots fired by CP3? :lol

278737776315363328

:lol good shit

Did yall hear ESPNs spin job on the stat too? Some bullshit about how OKC is 5-1 when Durant scores 30+ so the Lakers being 1-10 doesnt mean much and basically has no correlation to the Lakers lack of success. As if Durant needs to chuck close to 30 shots to get his. :lol

[usdane]

Kind of weird to blame Kobe since he is shooting lights out and is seemingly the only one playing with heart right now.

[Brunodf]

Kind of weird to blame Kobe since he is shooting lights out and is seemingly the only one playing with heart right now.

He is the ballhandler right now, so not getting his teammates envolved is fault.

[spurraider21]

:lol good shit

Did yall hear ESPNs spin job on the stat too? Some bullshit about how OKC is 5-1 when Durant scores 30+ so the Lakers being 1-10 doesnt mean much and basically has no correlation to the Lakers lack of success. As if Durant needs to chuck close to 30 shots to get his. :lol
Durant isn't the primary ballhander on his team, so a large portion of his points come within the offense. He doesn't go into too many iso's, especially not in the first three and a half quarters. . Kobe has the ball in his hands as he crosses half court, and when he starts his iso with 20 seconds on the clock, sure, he'll get criticized.

[Texas_Ranger]

Heard Tim Legler on sportcenter defendig Kobe, that it's really not his fault. LOL

[ambchang]

He's the ultimate Teflon man, never gets the blame, always gets the credit.

I strive for that at work.

[Bane.]

Heard Tim Legler on sportcenter defendig Kobe, that it's really not his fault. LOL

[Muffled] He is L.A's reckoning, he is necessary evil that Lakerfans deserve.

[stretch]

The only coincedence is that his shooting and scoring numbers go up, when his teammates are blowing ass and doing nothing to help. When he scores less than thirty, its because his teammates are actually giving some help and making plays, so that Kobe doesn't have to.

I'm no Laker fan, but lets not kid ourselves... this team is giving some really awful efforts and look like a mess, although Kobe is putting up the most efficient numbers of his career. If he was putting out these scoring outbursts with awful efficiency, then there may be a legit complaint about him. But he generally has been doing his part. Most of the team however, is not. Most of all, the coaching situation is a complete mess.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but Kobe probably deserves the least of anyone on the Lakers.

[Cry Havoc]

Kind of weird to blame Kobe since he is shooting lights out and is seemingly the only one playing with heart right now.

Kind of weird how Kobe never has enough help despite playing alongside 4 fucking all-stars. Are you really going to bring that trash take into this thread? Dwight Howard has had games with less than 5 FGA's this year. That's criminal. That's absolutely a crime against basketball. If I were DHo, I'd quit on Kobe's chucking ass, too.

This isn't a new thing. This is what Kobe does. He destroys teammates because he makes them hate playing with him.

[DMC]

People don't have a problem blaming Westbrook when he goes off for 40 and the team loses anyhow. Kobe is just a 17 year version of that.

[Cry Havoc]

There is plenty of blame to go around, but Kobe probably deserves the least of anyone on the Lakers.

:cry :cry Kobe's such a leader :cry :cry

[stretch]

:cry :cry Kobe's such a leader :cry :cry

Well he has 5 rings, and is one of the most accomplished players in the history of the NBA, so...

[stretch]

I just don't get why spurfan has such a disdain for Kobe? My only guess is the consistent ass-rapings he has given the Spurs over the years, both in the regular season and the playoffs.

[Malik Hairston]

Agreed with stretch..

Howard only had 9 FGAs last game, but he shot 22 free throws..he got plenty of touches, tbh..

I agreed with the criticism the past few years, when Bryant was playing an inefficient brand of basketball, but he has played highly efficient basketball in 2012-2013, tbh..

Who else is going to shoot, tbh?..Meeks is getting plenty of touches, Metta gets his touches, Jamison plays a scoring role off the bench..Howard is the only player that may not be shooting enough, but he's getting to the line at a high rate, which produces a deceiving number of FGAs in the box score..

Kobe isn't Lebron, he's a poor leader and he's a terrible defensive player, but I wouldn't blame him for their offense..

[FkLA]

The only coincedence is that his shooting and scoring numbers go up, when his teammates are blowing ass and doing nothing to help. When he scores less than thirty, its because his teammates are actually giving some help and making plays, so that Kobe doesn't have to.

I'm no Laker fan, but lets not kid ourselves... this team is giving some really awful efforts and look like a mess, although Kobe is putting up the most efficient numbers of his career. If he was putting out these scoring outbursts with awful efficiency, then there may be a legit complaint about him. But he generally has been doing his part. Most of the team however, is not. Most of all, the coaching situation is a complete mess.

There is plenty of blame to go around, but Kobe probably deserves the least of anyone on the Lakers.

Doesnt matter if hes efficient or not, hes still shooting pretty much the same amount of shots as Pau and Dwight combined. You cant expect these guys to not blow ass when they dont get any touches. Theyve actually been efficient when they get their touches too. They got rid of Brown and have brought in a bunch of new role players, the only constant is Kobe continuing to chuck. Dude doesnt get any shit for how terrible he is defensively either, expect another all-defense nod tbh.

[Brunodf]

Well he has 5 rings, and is one of the most accomplished players in the history of the NBA, so...

Poor Kobe, never had had enough help, his teammates always suck, thank god he is good enough to carry deadweights like Shaq, Horry, Malone, Payton, Odom, Bynum, Gasol, and now DH/Nash.

[Malik Hairston]

Howard's usage % is down by a few points..factor a new system and coach that doesn't advocate post touches, in addition to being the #2 option instead of #1, and it explains the drop off..his touches haven't had the dramatic decline that is perceived..

Gasol has received enough touches, the problem is that his touches have been from outside his comfort zone..

Kobe is one of the most overrated players of all-time IMO, but his offense has been elite this season..

[DMC]

Well he has 5 rings, and is one of the most accomplished players in the history of the NBA, so...

You contemplating jumping ship or is your empathy centered more around the fact that your team also sucks dick this year?

[DMC]

Agreed with stretch..

Howard only had 9 FGAs last game, but he shot 22 free throws..he got plenty of touches, tbh..

I agreed with the criticism the past few years, when Bryant was playing an inefficient brand of basketball, but he has played highly efficient basketball in 2012-2013, tbh..

Who else is going to shoot, tbh?..Meeks is getting plenty of touches, Metta gets his touches, Jamison plays a scoring role off the bench..Howard is the only player that may not be shooting enough, but he's getting to the line at a high rate, which produces a deceiving number of FGAs in the box score..

Kobe isn't Lebron, he's a poor leader and he's a terrible defensive player, but I wouldn't blame him for their offense..

So you think "efficient" means play zero defense and shoot every time you get the ball. Got it.

:lol as if Kobe gauges his efficiency when deciding to chuck
:lol feeling sorry for a rapist who throws his team under the bus at every opportunity

[Clipper Nation]

Well he has 5 rings, and is one of the most accomplished players in the history of the NBA, so...

Doesn't mean he's a leader...

[gee]

Well he has 5 rings, and is one of the most accomplished players in the history of the NBA, so...

A Kobe Lakers team has never won a championship when Kobe was the player with the highest Win Share rating, all those rings had either Shaq or Pau performing at a higher level.
The more he excels in his individual stats the more he hurts his team, which is well documented, but he clearly doesn't give a shit, which is also well documented.

[BillMc]

Kobe's offense has been great this year, but he's not playing defense much. It's really like he's decided to save his energy on the defensive side of the court, so win or lose people can still say "Well, it's not Kobe's fault, he scored 35." I think he knows they're not going anywhere, so we're back to 2004-05 range where it's all about the numbers until Mitch gets him a contender again. He'll just shoot and shoot and shoot....

Kobe's smart, and PR savvy, he knows O is the way to go, if the team isn't going to win anything. If he can't catch MJ in rings, then points becomes the main focus.

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe's smart, and PR savvy

Considering he's a rapist snitch who arrogantly demanded trades, "PR savvy" is the last thing I would call Kobe...

[BillMc]

Considering he's a rapist snitch who arrogantly demanded trades, "PR savvy" is the last thing I would call Kobe...

He's very PR savvy. From the studio gangster things, to the "greatest Laker of all time", to the revisionist history that somehow he was top dog, not Shaq on the early Laker teams, he's played the media and the fans well. Even that trade demand didn't come off as a Howard-like BS, instead he's spun it as "I just want to win, because I care."

Kobe's a tool, but he's a smart tool I'll give him that.

[Brunodf]

Make that 1-11

[it's me]

Kirby is having a great season tbh..... 31 points today :lmao

[Latarian Milton]

nigga is a pure scorer n has no idea how to make his teammates play better. its steve nash's job to improve teammates performances but kobe is required to play this role in nash's absence. people want him to play like magic when he's never played that way n he's already 34yr old

[Deuce Bigalow]

A Kobe Lakers team has never won a championship when Kobe was the player with the highest Win Share rating, all those rings had either Shaq or Pau performing at a higher level.
The more he excels in his individual stats the more he hurts his team, which is well documented, but he clearly doesn't give a shit, which is also well documented.
2001 Playoffs
WS leader - Kobe-3.8

2009 Playoffs
WS leader - Kobe-4.7

[Clipper Nation]

Here's a stat, Deuce.... 9-14 :lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

Here's a stat, Deuce.... 9-14 :lmao
And?

[DAF86]

And?

You suck ass.

[gee]

2001 Playoffs
WS leader - Kobe-3.8

2009 Playoffs
WS leader - Kobe-4.7

my bad, I meant WS/48

but still my bad, they did win 1 year when kobe had the highest WS/48

lakers still suck though :toast

[dunkman]

The Lakers have reasons to be extremely worried because Kobe averages 29.4 ppg - and increasing. However, they are gonna have a nice lottery pick. The last time that happened, the Lakers picked Bynum, while Kobe still sells out the Staples and moves merchandise like there is no tomorrow tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

However, they are gonna have a nice lottery pick.
Which will then promptly be given to the Suns :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'm with stretch. Chucking is not Kobe's crime. Kobe's shooting percentages are at career highs at the moment. And unlike last spring when he was pissing away wins by chasing a scoring title during games where Gasol and/or Bynum were shooting 50%+, the Lakers "all star frontcourt" is on paper only for now. Gasol's been inconsistent ever since Phil left even when he's healthy, and I'll be generous and say the jury's still out on Howard and how he fits with this team and system. The turnover difference does jump out. I'm curious to see what happens to that number in both wins and losses once Nash gets back.

There's plenty of criticism for everyone on that team, including #8. He's defending poorly (and he's fouling a much higher rate this year as well). And anyone that is really supposed to be the closest thing to Jordan's heir should be able to rally a locker room to give a quality effort regardless of who is coaching or how much talent is there. For now, offense if probably the one part of the game where he's actually doing this team any favors.

[ambchang]

Nobody seemed to be stating the obvious, and that the Lakers struggles are centered around their defense, not offense.

The issue with their defense is that nobody knows what they are doing and their role in it. To top it off, there are huge trust issues within the team. Part of it is due to egos (All the players share this blame), part of it is due to unfamiliarity (bad coaching and low bball IQ in the team), but part of the issue is also because the dogs are not getting fed on offense.

Gasol has been starved on offense despite being one of the more efficient ball players in the league the last few years. He gets chewed out for shooting, he gets chewed out for not shooting, he didn't get any recognition or appreciation for being a major part of the Lakers to two championships. It is natural for him to say enough is enough, and just quit on the team, because eventually, you are just not going to take it anymore.

Dwight as been the alpha dog his entire career, he gets fed down low for points, he is not getting that now. Even how petulant and childish he is as a person, doesn't surprise me a bit that he is quitting on the team already.

Nash just wants to have fun, so it doesn't really matter to him.

At the end of this, the team is struggling because there is no cohesion within the team, and there is no accountability from the "leader" whatsoever. "The team wins, it's because of me, the team loses, it's because of you" attitude just doesn't cut it, and without Phil Jackson to massage the ego, or Kobe to suppress his sociopathic ways, the Lakers will have a hard time righting the ship.

[Raven]

Nobody seemed to be stating the obvious, and that the Lakers struggles are centered around their defense, not offense.

The issue with their defense is that nobody knows what they are doing and their role in it. To top it off, there are huge trust issues within the team. Part of it is due to egos (All the players share this blame), part of it is due to unfamiliarity (bad coaching and low bball IQ in the team), but part of the issue is also because the dogs are not getting fed on offense.

Gasol has been starved on offense despite being one of the more efficient ball players in the league the last few years. He gets chewed out for shooting, he gets chewed out for not shooting, he didn't get any recognition or appreciation for being a major part of the Lakers to two championships. It is natural for him to say enough is enough, and just quit on the team, because eventually, you are just not going to take it anymore.

Dwight as been the alpha dog his entire career, he gets fed down low for points, he is not getting that now. Even how petulant and childish he is as a person, doesn't surprise me a bit that he is quitting on the team already.

Nash just wants to have fun, so it doesn't really matter to him.

At the end of this, the team is struggling because there is no cohesion within the team, and there is no accountability from the "leader" whatsoever. "The team wins, it's because of me, the team loses, it's because of you" attitude just doesn't cut it, and without Phil Jackson to massage the ego, or Kobe to suppress his sociopathic ways, the Lakers will have a hard time righting the ship.

they suffer the most off tournovers, who do you think tourns the ball over the most?

[Brunodf]

2-11(6 points win over Wizards)
Scored 30 points(9-29 from the field)

[Deuce Bigalow]

my bad, I meant WS/48but still my bad, they did win 1 year when kobe had the highest WS/48lakers still suck though :toast
05 Playoffs-WS/48
Manu-.260
Horry-.199
Duncan-.191

95 Playoffs-WS/48
Drexler-.167
Hakeem-.143
Horry-.142

[dunkman]

That stats shows Kobe's overrated. That's why he has only one two finals MVP's and only one MVP.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That stats shows Kobe's overrated. That's why he has only one two finals MVP's and only one MVP.
Kareem, Bird, and Hakeem also have 2 FMVPs, Wilt would also have "only" 2 FMVP if they had the award back then.
Shaq, Hakeem, and Oscar also have 1 MVP.

MVPs have a lot of factors that one player can't control, one is your teammates. You ain't going to win enough games to win the award with the team he had in 05-06 and 06-07. He led the league in scoring those years btw.
Was Nash a better player than Kobe in 05-06? Was Dirk a better player than Kobe in 06-07? Although I think they fairly won the award and deserved it considering what the MVP award has become since the '80s. Kareem in the 70s was the last player to win it on a team that only won under 49 games.
Anyways, Kobe is going to end up as the NBA's All-time leading playoff scorer and 3rd on the all-time scoring list along with his 5 rings, so overrated he is not.

How a Spurs fan can call Kobe overrated is beyond me. Just look at what he did to you guys in the Playoffs, we'll you don't need to look, you already know.

[Stalin]

MJ in his prime would piss all over Kobe and call it rain.


Co sign

[ElNono]

stats fag needs to spin this record, tbh... :cry teammates :cry

[Mal]

Kobe is true hero ! With back spasm, played 42 minutes and led his team to crucial win over talented Washington Wizzards. Not only score over 30 pts, he made all 5, crucial free throws which refs gave him to stop Wizards comeback.

[Stalin]

Kobe is true hero ! With back spasm, played 42 minutes and led his team to crucial win over talented Washington Wizzards. Not only score over 30 pts, he made all 5, crucial free throws which refs gave him to stop Wizards comeback.



:lol

[dunkman]

Kareem, Bird, and Hakeem also have 2 FMVPs, Wilt would also have "only" 2 FMVP if they had the award back then.
Shaq, Hakeem, and Oscar also have 1 MVP.

MVPs have a lot of factors that one player can't control, one is your teammates. You ain't going to win enough games to win the award with the team he had in 05-06 and 06-07. He led the league in scoring those years btw.
Was Nash a better player than Kobe in 05-06? Was Dirk a better player than Kobe in 06-07? Although I think they fairly won the award and deserved it considering what the MVP award has become since the '80s. Kareem in the 70s was the last player to win it on a team that only won under 49 games.
Anyways, Kobe is going to end up as the NBA's All-time leading playoff scorer and 3rd on the all-time scoring list along with his 5 rings, so overrated he is not.

How a Spurs fan can call Kobe overrated is beyond me. Just look at what he did to you guys in the Playoffs, we'll you don't need to look, you already know.

Bird had 3 consecutive MVP's, during that period of time he was the best player in the NBA. He was the finals MVP in 2 of 3 and unquestionable the best C's player in all 3 of their championships. The best player of the showtime Lakers was Magic, Kareem was over 30 by then, but he still got to win 6 MVP's. Wilt was the best player of all the championship teams he was part of, and he won the MVP 4 times?

Hakeem was the best player of all his championship teams too. They won 2, so he was twice the finals MVP. He won the MVP once, but he also won an DPOY once.

Shaq took his vacations on company time, was injured often while he was the best NBA player, so he won the MVP only once. But he won the finals mvp 3 times and was the best player of those Lakers teams. But one of Nash's MVP could have gone to Shaq, not Kobe and the other was well deserved. The Suns eliminated the Lakers in first round various times during that period, I think that Kobe missed the playoffs once too. And was Kobe deserving the MVP more than Paul the year he won it? Was Kobe deserving the finals MVP in 2010? There is something wrong with his stats. Otherwise he wouldn't be leading the Lakers to lottery. Dirk silenced any eventual critics after 2010. Sure Kobe has 5, Pippen 6 and Horry 7 - but the question is what was the role of that players in those teams and how much credit can they take for the 'ships.

Kobe is an all time great, but not really near the top.

The Spurs didn't have a SG in 2001, so Kobe was guarded by much shorter Daniels. The next year arrived Bowen and Kobe was a non factor, until 2008, when Bowen was 38? and Kobe played decently. Still, the Lakers won that series because of Odom.

[Baseline]

So are we done talking about how great K. Bryant is? This year he has the best center in the league by far, yet he leads his team to a 9-14 record - now 10-14 after narrowly beating the Wiz.

Another poster said it best...he's one of the most overrated players in the history of the league.

Quick Fact: Bryant's career shooting prcentage is 45.4%. George Gervin played 16 years of ABA/NBA, and he never had a single season when he shot that poorly.

Bryant's true skill is being able to get up as many shots as he does without either his coach or his teammates strangling him on the court.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird had 3 consecutive MVP's, during that period of time he was the best player in the NBA. He was the finals MVP in 2 of 3 and unquestionable the best C's player in all 3 of their championships. The best player of the showtime Lakers was Magic, Kareem was over 30 by then, but he still got to win 6 MVP's. Wilt was the best player of all the championship teams he was part of, and he won the MVP 4 times?

Hakeem was the best player of all his championship teams too. They won 2, so he was twice the finals MVP. He won the MVP once, but he also won an DPOY once.

Shaq took his vacations on company time, was injured often while he was the best NBA player, so he won the MVP only once. But he won the finals mvp 3 times and was the best player of those Lakers teams. But one of Nash's MVP could have gone to Shaq, not Kobe and the other was well deserved. The Suns eliminated the Lakers in first round various times during that period, I think that Kobe missed the playoffs once too. And was Kobe deserving the MVP more than Paul the year he won it? Was Kobe deserving the finals MVP in 2010? There is something wrong with his stats. Otherwise he wouldn't be leading the Lakers to lottery. Dirk silenced any eventual critics after 2010. Sure Kobe has 5, Pippen 6 and Horry 7 - but the question is what was the role of that players in those teams and how much credit can they take for the 'ships.

Kobe is an all time great, but not really near the top.

The Spurs didn't have a SG in 2001, so Kobe was guarded by much shorter Daniels. The next year arrived Bowen and Kobe was a non factor, until 2008, when Bowen was 38? and Kobe played decently. Still, the Lakers won that series because of Odom.
Ok now Kobe doesn't deserve his finals mvps and was a non factor in the 02, 03, 04 series vs spurs. Yeah...

02 Confrence semis vs SA,how about 11 points on 5-5 shooting in the 4th quarter of game 3, and singlehandedly out scored the Spurs 12 to 10 in the 4th quarter and hit the GW in game 4. Non factor...He was the best player in the series. He was also the leading scorer in the 03 and 04 series. And Odom was why they won the series in 08? Lets just forget in Game 1 when Kobe led the Lakers from a 20 point deficit with 25 in the 2nd half, outscoring the entire Spurs team by himself in the final 17:53, while Duncan was clanking freethrows. Or how about Kobe's 39 points in the clincher and 17 in the 4th quarter? Lamar Odom...gtfo

It doesn't matter if Kobe didn't win MVP or not, in 05-06, 06-07, 07-08 Kobe was the best player on the planet, it was just a matter if his teammates could give him enough help to get enough wins to get the award.
In the 10 finals Kobe was the leading scorer by far, no one was within single digits and averaged 8 rpg, while his best teammate averaged 10 less ppg and 11.6 rpg. Kobe won back to back finals mvps, just deal with it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

So are we done talking about how great K. Bryant is? This year he has the best center in the league by far, yet he leads his team to a 9-14 record - now 10-14 after narrowly beating the Wiz.

Another poster said it best...he's one of the most overrated players in the history of the league.

Quick Fact: Bryant's career shooting prcentage is 45.4%. George Gervin played 16 years of ABA/NBA, and he never had a single season when he shot that poorly.

Bryant's true skill is being able to get up as many shots as he does without either his coach or his teammates strangling him on the court.
Quick fact:

Kobe's career True Shooting % = .555
Duncan's career True Shooting % = .552

[Jodelo]

Statfag on it's way with some stats that support Kobe. :lol

[dunkman]

Ok now Kobe doesn't deserve his finals mvps and was a non factor in the 02, 03, 04 series vs spurs. Yeah...

02 Confrence semis vs SA,how about 11 points on 5-5 shooting in the 4th quarter of game 3, and singlehandedly out scored the Spurs 12 to 10 in the 4th quarter and hit the GW in game 4. Non factor...He was the best player in the series. He was also the leading scorer in the 03 and 04 series. And Odom was why they won the series in 08? Lets just forget in Game 1 when Kobe led the Lakers from a 20 point deficit with 25 in the 2nd half, outscoring the entire Spurs team by himself in the final 17:53, while Duncan was clanking freethrows. Or how about Kobe's 39 points in the clincher and 17 in the 4th quarter? Lamar Odom...gtfo

It doesn't matter if Kobe didn't win MVP or not, in 05-06, 06-07, 07-08 Kobe was the best player on the planet, it was just a matter if his teammates could It's not over him enough help to get enough wins to get the award.
In the 10 finals Kobe was the leading scorer by far, no one was within single digits and averaged 8 rpg, while his best teammate averaged 10 less ppg and 11.6 rpg. Kobe won back to back finals mvps, just deal with it.

Kobe's stats for the 02 wcsf were:
Game 1: 20 points / 18 shots
Game 2: 26 points / 25 shots
Game 3: 31 points / 31 shots
Game 4: 28 points / 27 shots
Game 5: 26 points / 20 shots
Basically, his only good game was when the Lakers were already 3:1. Kobe was the best player of the 02 Lakers? If he shot more, more deeply were the Lakers in trouble. Ask a Spur fan if Kobe worried anyone once Bowen arrived. During the Shaq - Kobe era, Phil's strategy was to rely on Shaq with Kobe coasting trough the first three quarters and keeping him fresh to close the games. So, it was usual for Kobe to post good 4th quarter numbers.

By 2008 Bowen had lost a step, so Kobe played at 1.2 points per shot level. Not bad, but not spectacular either. The reason the Spurs lost was they didn't have anyone to put on Odom, he was too fast for the Spurs bigs and too big for the wings. Odom scored at +1.5 rate. The Spurs were unable to make stops when it mattered. With that in mind the Spurs traded for RJ. In the pivotal game 4, which the Spurs lost by 2 points, Kobe had 28 points out of 29 shots. Odom had 16 points / 9 shots. Once the Lakers had the insurmountable 3:1 lead, Kobe scored 39 on 30 shots to "close out". The Spurs barely won the Hornets in 7 games. After the game, they went directly to the airport to LA. The players slept that night at the airport, and were tired for game 1.

The best player on the planet goes further than 1st round and never misses the playoffs, doesn't get beat by other players for his MVP awards and plays much better in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Kobe's an exceptional player, just that he's more focused on stat padding - than winning.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's stats for the 02 wcsf were:
Game 1: 20 points / 18 shots
Game 2: 26 points / 25 shots
Game 3: 31 points / 31 shots
Game 4: 28 points / 27 shots
Game 5: 26 points / 20 shots
Basically, his only good game was when the Lakers were already 3:1. Kobe was the best player of the 02 Lakers? If he shot more, more deeply were the Lakers in trouble. Ask a Spur fan if Kobe worried anyone once Bowen arrived. During the Shaq - Kobe era, Phil's strategy was to rely on Shaq with Kobe coasting trough the first three quarters and keeping him fresh to close the games. So, it was usual for Kobe to post good 4th quarter numbers.

By 2008 Bowen had lost a step, so Kobe played at 1.2 points per shot level. Not bad, but not spectacular either. The reason the Spurs lost was they didn't have anyone to put on Odom, he was too fast for the Spurs bigs and too big for the wings. Odom scored at +1.5 rate. The Spurs were unable to make stops when it mattered. With that in mind the Spurs traded for RJ. In the pivotal game 4, which the Spurs lost by 2 points, Kobe had 28 points out of 29 shots. Odom had 16 points / 9 shots. Once the Lakers had the insurmountable 3:1 lead, Kobe scored 39 on 30 shots to "close out". The Spurs barely won the Hornets in 7 games. After the game, they went directly to the airport to LA. The players slept that night at the airport, and were tired for game 1.

The best player on the planet goes further than 1st round and never misses the playoffs, doesn't get beat by other players for his MVP awards and plays much better in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, I think that Kobe's an exceptional player, just that he's more focused on stat padding - than winning.
That is cute and all but Kobe was the best player in the 02 series.
Let me repeat
Game 3: With the series tied 1-1, the Lakers were up 3 points entering the 4th. Kobe scored 11 points on 5-5 shooting to give LA the win and a 2-1 series lead.
Game 4: Entering the 4th quarter, the Spurs were up by 7 points. The entire Spurs team scores 10 points, while Kobe scored 12, including the game-winner to basically clinch the series with a commanding 3-1 lead.
Kobe had a higher FG% than both Shaq and Kobe in the series so kudos to your points per shot stats, Kobe didn't attempt a lot of freethrows is the reason why his PPS was low.

Lets go to 08 WCF.
In Game 1, the Spurs had a 20 point lead midway through the 3rd quarter. From that point on, Kobe outscored the Spurs by himself 23 to 20 in the Final 17:53 of the game.

Spurs - 65
Lakers - 45

5:53, 3rd quarter

Final 17:53 of Game (From 5:53 left in the 3rd Quarter)
Kobe Bryant- 23 points
Spurs Team- 20 points



http://youtu.be/2h9_ot3ow1I


Starts at 5:00 of the video.

So who was the best player in the NBA in 05-06, 06-07, 07-08?
Doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't have a good team you won't go past the first round. Michael Jordan in his first 3 series was knocked out of the first round all 3 times, getting swept twice. He averaged over 40 ppt one series and had a 60+ point game and still lost. Teams win game, are you like 12 years old or something? How do you not know this yet?

[Deuce Bigalow]

1974-75 Bucks: Miss Playoffs
1975-76 Lakers: Miss Playoffs
1977-78 Lakers: Lose in first round

Prime Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were on those teams. I guess he wasn't the best player because his TEAM didn't win....

dunkman with his childish "logic"

[Jodelo]

Superstars should not miss the playoffs in their prime...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Superstars should not miss the playoffs in their prime...
It depends on what teammates they have. One player can only do so much.

[Jodelo]

It depends on what teammates they have. One player can only do so much.

:lmao A superstar should be enough to MAKE the playoffs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lmao A superstar should be enough to MAKE the playoffs.
So Kareem didn't do enough?
Sometimes a team is so bad that it isn't enough. What's so hard to understand?

[ElNono]

So Kareem didn't do enough?

Kareem didn't play in this 30-team watered down NBA...

The real question is whether Kirby is a superstar at all or a overrated coattailer...

[dunkman]

Deuce
Since you resorted to cheap shots and ignore arguments, will take that as a capitulation.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Deuce (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3542)
Since you resorted to cheap shots and ignore arguments, will take that as a capitulation.
"Arguments"?
You posted that Kobe wasn't the best player because his TEAM didn't go past the first round and Didn't deserves his mvps.

You don't understand the simple concept that teams win games. Learn about basketball first then maybe you can make a legit argument.

[ambchang]

Wow! Laker fans saying team win games. Do teams win championships too?

[DMC]

And?

Folks, step right up, see the difference between a Lakers fan and a Kobe fan.

Lakers fan rises and falls with the Lakers fortunes. Kobe fans rises with Lakers fortunes, and loiters during the decline by regurgitating Kobe's numbers despite the outcome of the game.

[DMC]

Deuce (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3542)
Since you resorted to cheap shots and ignore arguments, will take that as a capitulation.

You do know what a deuce is.

[usdane]

Bump. Stats that makes no sense.

[Leetonidas]

Kareem, Bird, and Hakeem also have 2 FMVPs, Wilt would also have "only" 2 FMVP if they had the award back then.
Shaq, Hakeem, and Oscar also have 1 MVP.

MVPs have a lot of factors that one player can't control, one is your teammates. You ain't going to win enough games to win the award with the team he had in 05-06 and 06-07. He led the league in scoring those years btw.
Was Nash a better player than Kobe in 05-06? Was Dirk a better player than Kobe in 06-07? Although I think they fairly won the award and deserved it considering what the MVP award has become since the '80s. Kareem in the 70s was the last player to win it on a team that only won under 49 games.
Anyways, Kobe is going to end up as the NBA's All-time leading playoff scorer and 3rd on the all-time scoring list along with his 5 rings, so overrated he is not.

How a Spurs fan can call Kobe overrated is beyond me. Just look at what he did to you guys in the Playoffs, we'll you don't need to look, you already know.
just wanna point out that we both know that the MVP award is not the best player award. Kobe was definitely a better player in 2006 the Nash, but was he more valuable to his team? The fact that he imploded at the end of the season and quit on his team only cemented that while Kobe was scoring like a man possessed in 2006, he was not the MVP of the NBA


Most VALUABLE Player =/= Best Player in the League (all the time, anyway)

[Bynumite]

... And Kobe continues to shit on spurfan per par. 5 games with 30 or more points, 5 wins in a row :lmao