Is trading for Anderson Varejao, really worth moving Splitter & Kawhi Leonard?

[cd021]

First this is just a rumor,scratch that, a trade idea, posted by "Pounding the Rock" (A great spurs site if you haven't heard)
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/12/6/3729426/nba-trade-spurs-kawhi-leonard-cavaliers-varejao

They float around the idea of moving Splitter, De Colo, Leonard, & Cory Joseph for Anderson Varejao and (presumably a couple of throw in players to because of roster maximums).

Personally, i really like Twilight (Splitter) & Leonard and think Cojo & De Colo have potential to be starting caliber players for years to come in San Antonio. Splitter has played very well this season (P.E.R. is over 20 this season) and Kawhi is still scratching the surface of his talent (Maybe an Andre Iggy or Stephen Jackson in his prime ,without the strip club shootouts:blah).

The proposed trade does keep Sjax which would be a plus but I personally think the deal isn't worth it, Granted Andy has been fantastic (understatement) this season.

What do you think?

[Richie]

No, because there are some great free agent options for this summer when we have cap space.

[Manu-20]

Really no no to this Varejao is not worth giving up Kawhi, Splitter, and De Colo I shouldn't even have to ever write this sentence just a dumb trade for the spurs.

[xtremesteven33]

I say if Its not broken dont try and fix it. I would love to have Varejao but Im definitely not moving Splitter and Leonard for him. Both are showing alot of promise in the Spurs system.
Also the West doesnt pose a dominant big man anymore so the need for a scrappy defender isnt a top priority as much. The league is changing to where small ball is really the way to counter play now. Im really digging the Spurs roster right now as it is. Everybody is contributing from top to bottom and look hungry more than ever.

[spursparker9]

nah, stupid trade.

[Malik Hairston]

Varejao's advantage over Splitter is his mid-range shot and the fact that he plays tough basketball on a consistent basis..

Splitter is inconsistent and suffers from stretches of soft basketball..when Splitter is peaking, his performance is comparable to Varejao's impact IMO..They are similar pick and roll players, Splitter may even finish better at the rim, but Varejao possesses a jump shot..Splitter is a slightly better defensive player, at his peak..

Is giving up Leonard worth the difference?..probably not, tbh, but I could buy the argument..if only Splitter could play tough and angry on a consistent basis..

[JRHernandez88]

hell the fk no :smokin:drunk

[Bruno]

The RJ trade should have taught a lesson to Spurs fans: beware of players padding stats on bad teams.

[Spur|n|Austin]

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59/itsaishah/GIF/NOGODNO.gif

[sananspursfan21]

i'm not sure if i'd trade either player straight up for varejao.... maaaaybe splitter but kawhi's future still intrigues me too much to trade him for almost anybody

[freetiago]

one of them but not both
varejaos biggest strengths are the spurs biggest weakness
and he can hit a midrange so pop has no excuse not to play him next to duncan
but knowing pop
hell just increase bon bon minutes and keep starting blair
"its fair to the team":pop:

[FkLA]

Unless a star is involved, you hang up the phone on any trade offer that includes Kawhi.

[Juggity]

Gotta be kidding.

No. A thousand times no.

[maverick1948]

Not no but HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tediousj]

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Mikesatx]

Fuck No!! This team is dominating as it did last year. We weren't that far off last year. Harden is gone for OKC. The Lakers which had the biggest haul suck and are old and slow. The Heat have never completely figured it out. Their talent won out last year. D-Wade has lost a step or two. The Spurs have another year together and Tiago will be a difference maker.

[Brunodf]

Varejao's advantage over Splitter is his mid-range shot and the fact that he plays tough basketball on a consistent basis..

Splitter is inconsistent and suffers from stretches of soft basketball..when Splitter is peaking, his performance is comparable to Varejao's impact IMO..They are similar pick and roll players, Splitter may even finish better at the rim, but Varejao possesses a jump shot..Splitter is a slightly better defensive player, at his peak..

Is giving up Leonard worth the difference?..probably not, tbh, but I could buy the argument..if only Splitter could play tough and angry on a consistent basis..

I think Varejao biggest advantage over Splitter is his minutes/touches, his mid-range isn't consistent, Varejao is an injury prone and is older than Splitter. I wouldn't trade Splitter straight up for Varejao. So Splitter+Kawhi is laughable

[Ice009]

why has everyone in this thread not replied with FUCK NO?

Are you insane? No way you trade all those players for Varejao, especially Kawhi. That would be a bad trade.

If you want to build a package around Splitter, then that is one thing, but no way do you throw Kawhi in there. It would have to be a better player than AV if you are going to trade Kawhi.

You also got to look at Anderson's career as a whole and realize he is not as good as he is playing right now. Like Bruno mentioned, this could be a case of Anderson stat padding and looking better than he really is on a crappy team. Don't get suckered into giving up all your youth for him.

[dbreiden83080]

Hell no...

[silverblackfan]

I read the article on Poundingtherock and hated the very idea of trading off Leonard and Splitter for AV. The team is clicking now and has the components it needs to win. If health and luck don't turn on us, the Spurs have a great chance.
i agree with the thoughts that AV has padded stats on the Cavs. Great player, but not worth giving up strong components of this team. Run with this current lineup and see what happens. Its the most fun and efficient team I have seen since 2005.

[TampaDude]

2HJxya0CWco

[spurraider21]

Trading Splitter for Varejao would be inching closer to trying to recreate the Spurs title teams of the mid 2000's. Less offense, more defense. Thats quite a gamble considering how our team has been gelling as an offensive juggernaut with great situational defense. Not to mention "throwing in" Kawhi

[spurraider21]

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx59/itsaishah/GIF/NOGODNO.gif

[Sean Cagney]

IF THEY TRADE FOR THAT SPICE GIRLS MOP HEAD looking fool I will not be a fan. If they trade Leonard and Splitter especially, we will not be better for it. Leonard might be an all star one day.

[sananspursfan21]

Trading Splitter for Varejao would be inching closer to trying to recreate the Spurs title teams of the mid 2000's. Less offense, more defense. Thats quite a gamble considering how our team has been gelling as an offensive juggernaut with great situational defense. Not to mention "throwing in" Kawhi

Agreed, if we were in dire straits id say maybe, but spurs are rolling and the defense isnt even bad

[Juggity]

tbh I would say yes to Varejao for Splitter straight up if that actually worked. Cleveland would hang up of course.

Kawhi is close to untradeable with his potential.

[exstatic]

tbh I would say yes to Varejao for Splitter straight up if that actually worked. Cleveland would hang up of course.

Kawhi is close to untradeable with his potential.

It doesn't, but if you throw in parts/salary relief like Bonner and CoJo, it does.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

why has everyone in this thread not replied with FUCK NO?

Are you insane?



Um, yeah, they are.

[szkorhetz]

Varejao is currently the best center in the Eastern conference, but I still wouldn't gave Leonard for him, although I am not that sold on Kawhi too. Okay, he is good and young, but he will never be better than a third option on a championship caliber team.
But I would happily regret these word after the next couple of seasons.

[Jumi]

HELL NAWW!!!!

[biskvito]

http://i.imgur.com/1dRcv.gif

[td4mvp21]

Not at all.

[benefactor]

It doesn't, but if you throw in parts/salary relief like Bonner and CoJo, it does.
This was my original idea a few months back...and I stand by it today. Throwing in Leonard is even below gnsf standards of dumb.

[dunkman]

First this is just a rumor,scratch that, a trade idea, posted by "Pounding the Rock" (A great spurs site if you haven't heard)
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2012/12/6/3729426/nba-trade-spurs-kawhi-leonard-cavaliers-varejao

They float around the idea of moving Splitter, De Colo, Leonard, & Cory Joseph for Anderson Varejao and (presumably a couple of throw in players to because of roster maximums).

Personally, i really like Twilight (Splitter) & Leonard and think Cojo & De Colo have potential to be starting caliber players for years to come in San Antonio. Splitter has played very well this season (P.E.R. is over 20 this season) and Kawhi is still scratching the surface of his talent (Maybe an Andre Iggy or Stephen Jackson in his prime ,without the strip club shootouts:blah).

The proposed trade does keep Sjax which would be a plus but I personally think the deal isn't worth it, Granted Andy has been tic (understatement) this season.

What do you think?

Varejao is a role player, and not that young. An expiring contract and a first rounder or maybe two could make some sense.

[Steve-O-Matic]

That would be a Cleveland Cavs version of the Herschel Walker Trade. Absurd.

[Horse]

I would not take Kahwi for varejao straight up.

[superbigtime]

No, it really isn't.

[024]

:lmao

[timvp]

If Splitter got the touches and minutes Varejao gets, he'd probably put up comparable numbers -- not as many rebounds but probably more points. On the Spurs, Varejao would probably be something like an eight-point, eight-rebound player ... and that's if he fits in well. He could easily be a bust in San Antonio because:

1) He averages a ton of offensive rebounds but that would dry up here. Pop values transition defense more than offensive boards. Would Varejao be able to make a sudden change in his game and give up those boards to get back on defense? Even if he does, how much of his value will be lost?

2) He relies a lot of pick-and-rolls, pick-and-pop and operating on the high post. Bigmen next to Duncan do very, very little of that. Instead, they are asked to spread the court and/or spend most every possession on the weakside. How would Varejao handle going from second or third option to fifth option? Obviously, the Spurs aren't going to mess with how Duncan is playing to accommodate someone like Varejao.

3) Varejao's numbers have improved in recent seasons but has his basketball IQ improved? Back in the 2007 Finals, he was one of the best players on the Spurs in crunch time. It was only a matter of time before he'd make some sort of mental mistake to hurt the Cavs. In the following playoff runs, those mental mistakes continued. We haven't seen him in the playoffs in the last couple years so there's no proof that he has become more intelligent when the pressure is on. In fact, such improvement is rare.



Personally, I think the Varejao love from Spurs fans is a simple case of people falling in love with his statistics without really thinking about how he'd actually fit. It'd be great if we could just transpose his stats from the Cavs and get those numbers on the Spurs ...... but that's not how it works. Varejao is a very good player nowadays but did he improve THAT much or is this just a case of the talent around him depleting so much that he's forced to step into a much bigger role?

Personally, I think Varejao is the modern day Andrei Kirilenko circa 2004. Everyone was so impressed with the numbers that Kirilenko was putting up that nobody blinked when the Jazz gave him a max contract. It wasn't until the Jazz started putting good pieces around him did people realize that Kirilenko wasn't as great as his previous numbers seemed; those stats were produced mostly because Utah had no one else capable of doing anything at the time. Once the talent improved, Kirilenko's numbers flat-lined as he adjusted to a more suitable role.

Needless to say, there's no way in hell I'd trade both Splitter and Kawhi for Varejao. I wouldn't trade Kawhi alone for Varejao. To be honest, I probably wouldn't even trade Splitter and trash for Varejao. Splitter's high ceiling gives the Spurs hope. Varejao's ceiling isn't as high and there are legitimate worries he won't fit well. Splitter, on the other hand, fits perfectly. There's a worry that Splitter will bomb out in the playoffs again but I'd take my chances.

[Brunodf]

If Splitter got the touches and minutes Varejao gets, he'd probably put up comparable numbers -- not as many rebounds but probably more points. On the Spurs, Varejao would probably be something like an eight-point, eight-rebound player ... and that's if he fits in well. He could easily be a bust in San Antonio because:

1) He averages a ton of offensive rebounds but that would dry up here. Pop values transition defense more than offensive boards. Would Varejao be able to make a sudden change in his game and give up those boards to get back on defense? Even if he does, how much of his value will be lost?

2) He relies a lot of pick-and-rolls, pick-and-pop and operating on the high post. Bigmen next to Duncan do very, very little of that. Instead, they are asked to spread the court and/or spend most every possession on the weakside. How would Varejao handle going from second or third option to fifth option? Obviously, the Spurs aren't going to mess with how Duncan is playing to accommodate someone like Varejao.

3) Varejao's numbers have improved in recent seasons but has his basketball IQ improved? Back in the 2007 Finals, he was one of the best players on the Spurs in crunch time. It was only a matter of time before he'd make some sort of mental mistake to hurt the Cavs. In the following playoff runs, those mental mistakes continued. We haven't seen him in the playoffs in the last couple years so there's no proof that he has become more intelligent when the pressure is on. In fact, such improvement is rare.



Personally, I think the Varejao love from Spurs fans is a simple case of people falling in love with his statistics without really thinking about how he'd actually fit. It'd be great if we could just transpose his stats from the Cavs and get those numbers on the Spurs ...... but that's not how it works. Varejao is a very good player nowadays but did he improve THAT much or is this just a case of the talent around him depleting so much that he's forced to step into a much bigger role?

Personally, I think Varejao is the modern day Andrei Kirilenko circa 2004. Everyone was so impressed with the numbers that Kirilenko was putting up that nobody blinked when the Jazz gave him a max contract. It wasn't until the Jazz started putting good pieces around him did people realize that Kirilenko wasn't as great as his previous numbers seemed; those stats were produced mostly because Utah had no one else capable of doing anything at the time. Once the talent improved, Kirilenko's numbers flat-lined as he adjusted to a more suitable role.

Needless to say, there's no way in hell I'd trade both Splitter and Kawhi for Varejao. I wouldn't trade Kawhi alone for Varejao. To be honest, I probably wouldn't even trade Splitter and trash for Varejao. Splitter's high ceiling gives the Spurs hope. Varejao's ceiling isn't as high and there are legitimate worries he won't fit well. Splitter, on the other hand, fits perfectly. There's a worry that Splitter will bomb out in the playoffs again but I'd take my chances.

100% this

[TD 21]

Personally, I think the Varejao love from Spurs fans is a simple case of people falling in love with his statistics without really thinking about how he'd actually fit. It'd be great if we could just transpose his stats from the Cavs and get those numbers on the Spurs ...... but that's not how it works. Varejao is a very good player nowadays but did he improve THAT much or is this just a case of the talent around him depleting so much that he's forced to step into a much bigger role?

Fair enough. Nobody in their right mind would trade both Splitter and Leonard for Varejao and I wouldn't trade Leonard alone for him either. That being said, you shoot down every realistic and even semi-realistic trade candidate for the Spurs, claiming they wouldn't be a good fit. Which begs the question: Out of realistic candidates, who do you think would be a good fit?

[DMC]

Yes. We don't need Leonard or Splitter. AV would make us a contender again. AV does what Fab did. Without a move, we are just regular season champs again. If that's good enough for everyone (it is for me) then leave it be. If you want to build a contender, you have to move pieces and no one wants Mills or Blair.

[Brunodf]

Yes. We don't need Leonard or Splitter. AV would make us a contender again. AV does what Fab did. Without a move, we are just regular season champs again. If that's good enough for everyone (it is for me) then leave it be. If you want to build a contender, you have to move pieces and no one wants Mills or Blair.

Really? Would Pop start Varejao? He doesn't spread the floor,but if he would, our bench would be weaker with Mills, Neal, Manu, Bonner and Boris. That wouldn't make us any better

[Beaverfuzz]

You keep Leonard Part VI, period.

[SupremeGuy]

Holy fuck no.

[DMC]

Really? Would Pop start Varejao? He doesn't spread the floor,but if he would, our bench would be weaker with Mills, Neal, Manu, Bonner and Boris. That wouldn't make us any better

Good bench gets us through the regular season, but the rotation shortens for playoff teams. We have Manu and Jax and Neal off the bench, we're golden. AV would get plenty of playing time. Danny Green has taken Leonard's spot in the starting lineup.

I like Leonard, wish we could keep him, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for AV.

[Ice009]

Good bench gets us through the regular season, but the rotation shortens for playoff teams. We have Manu and Jax and Neal off the bench, we're golden. AV would get plenty of playing time. Danny Green has taken Leonard's spot in the starting lineup.

I like Leonard, wish we could keep him, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for AV.

The toughest teams in the NBA, teams that we would have to go through to win it have a SF/PF type that is their best player. You know, Kevin Durant, Lebron, Rudy Gay, Carmelo. You ever heard of those guys? Who is going to defend those players? Jack can't defend them the whole game himself and stay out of foul trouble every game. Danny is better suited to guard SGs and PGs IMO, possibly some SFs too, not guys that can play SF/PF.

Trading both Kawhi and Tiago for him is just stupid. Why would you even consider it, let alone say that we need to make that trade?

[Brunodf]

Good bench gets us through the regular season, but the rotation shortens for playoff teams. We have Manu and Jax and Neal off the bench, we're golden. AV would get plenty of playing time. Danny Green has taken Leonard's spot in the starting lineup.

I like Leonard, wish we could keep him, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for AV.

Who is starting at 2 if u put Jack/Manu/Neal off the bench, and u no longer have Decolo and Leonard.

[Manu-20]

Good bench gets us through the regular season, but the rotation shortens for playoff teams. We have Manu and Jax and Neal off the bench, we're golden. AV would get plenty of playing time. Danny Green has taken Leonard's spot in the starting lineup.

I like Leonard, wish we could keep him, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for AV.

Trading Leonard for varejao straghit up makes the spurs a worse team than they are now, still can't believe some of the offers spurs fans are coming up for varejao I rather just keep splitter who is showing progress and is just about as good as varejao if not better on his best day.

[DMC]

Who is starting at 2 if u put Jack/Manu/Neal off the bench, and u no longer have Decolo and Leonard.

Who's starting at 2 now?

[DMC]

Trading Leonard for varejao straghit up makes the spurs a worse team than they are now, still can't believe some of the offers spurs fans are coming up for varejao I rather just keep splitter who is showing progress and is just about as good as varejao if not better on his best day.

Like I said, it depends on your outlook. You either build a contender or you play the hand you have.

[Brunodf]

Who's starting at 2 now?

Neal

[Ice009]

Who's starting at 2 now?

Neal is starting at 2, you said he would be coming in off the bench after your proposed Varejao trade.

How about you clean up what you are saying and answer the questions asking why we would be a contender with AV instead of Kawhi and Tiago.

Who's going to guard the SF/PF types like I asked you? Gary Neal?

[cd021]

Trading Splitter for Varejao would be inching closer to trying to recreate the Spurs title teams of the mid 2000's. Less offense, more defense. Thats quite a gamble considering how our team has been gelling as an offensive juggernaut with great situational defense. Not to mention "throwing in" Kawhi

I'd actually disagreed with that statement, Varejao would be placed in the starting lineup with Duncan and the offense would be almost as potent. Varejao has excellent hands and can finish at the rim (he actually reminds me a little of Oberto, if thats whats you meant)

With Cojo & De Colo moved in this trade ,Neal & Mills would see a minutes spike. Both compete on defense however both most of the time are simply out matched at the point, with quicker stronger, more athletic guards.

Jackson can still be a starter in this league but isn't nearly the dynamic scorer or defender he was, that being said the starting lineup won't change a ton with Blair being move to the bench and Manu, Neal, Mills, & Diaw still coming off the bench. The can still be a great backup unit ,less depth, but still potent offensively.

[spurraider21]

I'd actually disagreed with that statement, Varejao would be placed in the starting lineup with Duncan and the offense would be almost as potent. Varejao has excellent hands and can finish at the rim (he actually reminds me a little of Oberto, if thats whats you meant)

With Cojo & De Colo moved in this trade ,Neal & Mills would see a minutes spike. Both compete on defense however both most of the time are simply out matched at the point, with quicker stronger, more athletic guards.

Jackson can still be a starter in this league but isn't nearly the dynamic scorer or defender he was, that being said the starting lineup won't change a ton with Blair being move to the bench and Manu, Neal, Mills, & Diaw still coming off the bench. The can still be a great backup unit ,less depth, but still potent offensively.
All that stuff you mention would make me nervous. A heck of a lot of change could really disrupt our chemistry. And Splitter is a much more potent pick and roll player than Andy is

[cd021]

Yes. We don't need Leonard or Splitter. AV would make us a contender again. AV does what Fab did. Without a move, we are just regular season champs again. If that's good enough for everyone (it is for me) then leave it be. If you want to build a contender, you have to move pieces and no one wants Mills or Blair.

I think you significantly overvaluing Varejao and under stating the importance of Kawhi & Tiago. Splitter is an elite P&R finisher and Kawhi is continuing to develop but is already an above average, athletic defender who can score with out the ball (cutting and spot up 3's) and he is a fantastic rebounder for a small forward. The Spurs are 5th in defensive efficiency without two of our best wing defenders there's reason to believe we will get even better on that end and we are STILL underachieving on the offensive end (scary thought)

[timvp]

That being said, you shoot down every realistic and even semi-realistic trade candidate for the Spurs, claiming they wouldn't be a good fit.AFAIK, I've only "shot down" Varejao and Millsap this season.


Which begs the question: Out of realistic candidates, who do you think would be a good fit?Who are the reasonable candidates? I'll let you know what I think if you come up with a list.

[cd021]

All that stuff you mention would make me nervous. A heck of a lot of change could really disrupt our chemistry. And Splitter is a much more potent pick and roll player than Andy is

Fair enough, but think of it like this, Moving 4 players would be less disturbing to the chemistry than adding 4 players. Essentially we would land Andi & maybe a couple of cheap players ,who aren't likely to crack a rotation.

One player who already has a history of playing with Parker & Diaw shouldn't hurt chemistry at all. Its not like A QB & a new receiver Andi has excellent hands and can finish no matter who he's playing with or where is playing at. He can defend the P&R'S & board his ass off even if he was playing at Rucker Park.

[timvp]

Good bench gets us through the regular season, but the rotation shortens for playoff teams. We have Manu and Jax and Neal off the bench, we're golden. AV would get plenty of playing time. Danny Green has taken Leonard's spot in the starting lineup.

I like Leonard, wish we could keep him, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for AV.

Think you're trollin' but I think the Spurs' rebounding begs to differ with the idea of Green being a long-term starting small forward. And I'm not exactly sure how Neal is supposed to start and come off the bench, tbh.

Trading away Leonard for a bigman who doesn't fit well next to TD, isn't much of a defender these days (opposing bigmen put up a ~20 PER against him last year, that's Blair level futility), won't be able to take advantage of his main strength (offensive rebounding) and would be lucky to play 20 MPG against the Thunder or Heat in the playoffs? Yeah, no, I don't see the opposing argument.

Splitter for Varejao is arguable. That swap would be a matter of whether you want a high ceiling or a high floor.

Leonard for Varejao makes no sense because the Spurs would be taking from an area of weakness (perimeter defending small forwards) to fill an area that might not be a weakness (if Splitter peaks and Diaw tries hard) and might not even be a deciding factor in the playoffs (since so many teams are going small).

But ya, my trolldar is blaring.

[cd021]

AFAIK, I've only "shot down" Varejao and Millsap this season.

Who are the reasonable candidates? I'll let you know what I think if you come up with a list.

Utah & Minnesota

Utah doesn't seem willing (nor should they be) to commit long term to both Jefferson & Milsap. Canter & Favors are studs in the making and keeping even one for more than 3 seasons could cut into minutes that would be better suited for devolopment. They've even been to playing Favors, Jefferson, & Milsap together just to find addition minutes for Favors.

Minnesota seems like they could use another big man besides Love & Pekovic they are a little thin maybe moving Blair for a conditional 1st would be an option.

[cd021]

Varejao is a role player, and not that young. An expiring contract and a first rounder or maybe two could make some sense.

Cleveland wants young talent in return, Andi has been one of the best role players in the NBA for years. They are already hoarding draft picks I'd doubt they'd move their most valuable asset for more cap space. They barely used the 11 million they had this past off season. Leonard would be a fantastic get for them he would go nicely with Irving & Waiters. Cojo & De Colo are solid prospects than can be long term rotation players for them.

I'm not actually sure if can trade this years pick for him because of the rule that says you can't trade consecutive 1st rounders.

[Paranoid Pop]

AFAIK, I've only "shot down" Varejao and Millsap this season.

Who are the reasonable candidates? I'll let you know what I think if you come up with a list.

Williams, Vesely, Patterson, Aminu, Teletovic...

[CGD]

Varejao thread!!!!!!!!!

[Budkin]

Laughably bad trade.

[slick'81]

damn spur fan still high on splitter ?!

[Texas_Ranger]

Other than Tim all of the bigs pretty much suck. I would not trade Kawhi, but I could live without Splitter, Blair, Bonner or Diaw on this team... Blair is the first on the list that needs to pack his bags, but it also suck that we would not get anything major for him.

[Paranoid Pop]

Other than Tim all of the bigs pretty much suck. I would not trade Kawhi, but I could live without Splitter, Blair, Bonner or Diaw on this team... Blair is the first on the list that needs to pack his bags, but it also suck that we would not get anything major for him.

Not major, anything at all, no one wants to even send a pick for him.

[Texas_Ranger]

^^

and that's just sad.... Dont think we get anything better for other bigs.

[dunkman]

Cleveland wants young talent in return, Andi has been one of the best role players in the NBA for years. They are already hoarding draft picks I'd doubt they'd move their most valuable asset for more cap space. They barely used the 11 million they had this past off season. Leonard would be a fantastic get for them he would go nicely with Irving & Waiters. Cojo & De Colo are solid prospects than can be long term rotation players for them.

I'm not actually sure if can trade this years pick for him because of the rule that says you can't trade consecutive 1st rounders.

The Spurs had to wait for Splitter several seasons after drafting him. After that, they had to pay much more than the rookie scale. Splitter was always more talented than Varejao and Nene.

The Spurs had to ship Scola to get De Colo, and let him develop for several years. He may be a solid pass-first PG, something that generates synergies and makes the team better.

To get the opportunity to draft Kawhi, the Spurs had to draft Hill and develop him for several seasons. The Spurs struggled a lot to find an acceptable replacement for Bowen. Kawhi is also very important for the small-ball because he's a good rebounder. Some of the best NBA teams, like OKC or the Heat, use small-ball line-ups regularly.

Finally, the Spurs used an first rounder for Cory and they invested in his development.

To give all those players for Varejao, who's already 30 and who made one all-defensive team, plus he will be all-star/all NBA this season, just seems too much. He may not probably post the 15/15 numbers with the Spurs, the same way RJ didn't replicated his stats from the Bucks and the Nets. It just doesn't make much sense to dismantle the roster for him.

The Spurs could keep those 4 players and add K-Mart. If he doesn't fit, they could sign West as FA the next season for the MLE.

[TD 21]

AFAIK, I've only "shot down" Varejao and Millsap this season.

You've shot down every candidate I've seen mentioned (that you've commented on and I've seen, obviously).


Who are the reasonable candidates? I'll let you know what I think if you come up with a list.

You know, guys they could get or at least possibly get without parting with the big three, Leonard and most likely Splitter, Green and Diaw, as well.

No, the idea was for you to come up with a list . . . or are you satisfied with what they have?

[Johnny RIngo]

they could sign West as FA the next season for the MLE.

West will be worth a lot more than the MLE

[ManuTastic]

Also the West doesnt pose a dominant big man anymore so the need for a scrappy defender isnt a top priority as much.

Dwight Howard/Pau Gasol/Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph?

[spurspokesman]

I say if Its not broken dont try and fix it. I would love to have Varejao but Im definitely not moving Splitter and Leonard for him. Both are showing alot of promise in the Spurs system.
Also the West doesnt pose a dominant big man anymore so the need for a scrappy defender isnt a top priority as much. The league is changing to where small ball is really the way to counter play now. Im really digging the Spurs roster right now as it is. Everybody is contributing from top to bottom and look hungry more than ever.+1

[spurspokesman]

outside of tim we probably have the shittiest collection of bigs in the league. Just plain sad.

[Brunodf]

outside of tim we probably have the shittiest collection of bigs in the league. Just plain sad.

Duncan is #1 PER among PFs, Splitter is #5

[travis2]

If Splitter got the touches and minutes Varejao gets, he'd probably put up comparable numbers -- not as many rebounds but probably more points. On the Spurs, Varejao would probably be something like an eight-point, eight-rebound player ... and that's if he fits in well. He could easily be a bust in San Antonio because:

1) He averages a ton of offensive rebounds but that would dry up here. Pop values transition defense more than offensive boards. Would Varejao be able to make a sudden change in his game and give up those boards to get back on defense? Even if he does, how much of his value will be lost?

2) He relies a lot of pick-and-rolls, pick-and-pop and operating on the high post. Bigmen next to Duncan do very, very little of that. Instead, they are asked to spread the court and/or spend most every possession on the weakside. How would Varejao handle going from second or third option to fifth option? Obviously, the Spurs aren't going to mess with how Duncan is playing to accommodate someone like Varejao.

3) Varejao's numbers have improved in recent seasons but has his basketball IQ improved? Back in the 2007 Finals, he was one of the best players on the Spurs in crunch time. It was only a matter of time before he'd make some sort of mental mistake to hurt the Cavs. In the following playoff runs, those mental mistakes continued. We haven't seen him in the playoffs in the last couple years so there's no proof that he has become more intelligent when the pressure is on. In fact, such improvement is rare.



Personally, I think the Varejao love from Spurs fans is a simple case of people falling in love with his statistics without really thinking about how he'd actually fit. It'd be great if we could just transpose his stats from the Cavs and get those numbers on the Spurs ...... but that's not how it works. Varejao is a very good player nowadays but did he improve THAT much or is this just a case of the talent around him depleting so much that he's forced to step into a much bigger role?

Personally, I think Varejao is the modern day Andrei Kirilenko circa 2004. Everyone was so impressed with the numbers that Kirilenko was putting up that nobody blinked when the Jazz gave him a max contract. It wasn't until the Jazz started putting good pieces around him did people realize that Kirilenko wasn't as great as his previous numbers seemed; those stats were produced mostly because Utah had no one else capable of doing anything at the time. Once the talent improved, Kirilenko's numbers flat-lined as he adjusted to a more suitable role.

Needless to say, there's no way in hell I'd trade both Splitter and Kawhi for Varejao. I wouldn't trade Kawhi alone for Varejao. To be honest, I probably wouldn't even trade Splitter and trash for Varejao. Splitter's high ceiling gives the Spurs hope. Varejao's ceiling isn't as high and there are legitimate worries he won't fit well. Splitter, on the other hand, fits perfectly. There's a worry that Splitter will bomb out in the playoffs again but I'd take my chances.

I think whoever came up with this has been pounding more than just the rock. This is right out of the "Kobe for a six-pack and a bag of Cheetos" book of trade management...except in reverse.

Ummmm...in case I was being too subtle for some...FUCK no.

[travis2]

Yes. We don't need Leonard or Splitter. AV would make us a contender again. AV does what Fab did. Without a move, we are just regular season champs again. If that's good enough for everyone (it is for me) then leave it be. If you want to build a contender, you have to move pieces and no one wants Mills or Blair.

So what you are saying is you would trade Kawhi AND Tiago for Fabricio Oberto? o.O

[xtremesteven33]

Dwight Howard/Pau Gasol/Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph?

Dwight Howard can be covered by one guy. As has been seen in the past.

Pau Gasol has lost all motivation to play with the Lakers.

The Memphis frontline can be contained with the current Spurs roster. Hell I saw Stephen Jackson do a damn good job on Zach Randolph.

[cd021]

The Spurs had to wait for Splitter several seasons after drafting him. After that, they had to pay much more than the rookie scale. Splitter was always more talented than Varejao and Nene.

The Spurs had to ship Scola to get De Colo, and let him develop for several years. He may be a solid pass-first PG, something that generates synergies and makes the team better.

To get the opportunity to draft Kawhi, the Spurs had to draft Hill and develop him for several seasons. The Spurs struggled a lot to find an acceptable replacement for Bowen. Kawhi is also very important for the small-ball because he's a good rebounder. Some of the best NBA teams, like OKC or the Heat, use small-ball line-ups regularly.

Finally, the Spurs used an first rounder for Cory and they invested in his development.

To give all those players for Varejao, who's already 30 and who made one all-defensive team, plus he will be all-star/all NBA this season, just seems too much. He may not probably post the 15/15 numbers with the Spurs, the same way RJ didn't replicated his stats from the Bucks and the Nets. It just doesn't make much sense to dismantle the roster for him.

The Spurs could keep those 4 players and add K-Mart. If he doesn't fit, they could sign West as FA the next season for the MLE.



The RJ comparison doesn't really match up to Varejao, considering the last couple of seasons in New Jersey, he was the focal point of the offense and was the most talented Buc' on a bad team. He's a fantastic role player & Varejao has played on great teams and has lead the league in +/-. The stuff he does isn't really recognized in stats while blocks and steals are highly regarded. 30 isn't really that old especially for a player who's game isn't based on athleticism. He can still be highly effective into his mid 30's. Obviously he isn't going to average 15 & 15 no one expects him to but he is a dominant defensive rebounder and defends the P&R extremely effectively.

Your acting as though the spurs traded Scola for De Colo's rights. Thats misleading. The Spurs had to many guaranteed contracts and no enough roster space for a highly talented, but aging prospect in Scola. Rather than have him rot away over seas and hold his NBA dream in limbo the spurs traded him in 2007 and Jackie Buttler to Houston for a future (2009) 2nd round draft pick (they later used that pick to get De Colo 2 years later.)

The Spurs didn't draft George hill in 08' to just developed and then trade him in 2011 for Kawhi Leonard. They like Hills potential and took the best available player. After he developed in the D-league and working with the coaching staff he made an impact in his second season as the backup PG, In his 3rd season he had a "breakout" season and really helped the spurs transform into a offensive Juggernaut, with the ability to shoot the 3, play combo guard, and attack off the dribble. He was traded for Kawhi Leonard after an disappointing playoff exit, against the Grizzles who had several young, long, & athletic players who forced the Spurs into difficult shots and frequently disrupted passing lanes.

As for Kawhi replacing Bowen, remember Kawhi was a PF in college, and the Spurs weren't sure what he would be in the NBA. They knew they would likely play him at the 3 but they didn't expect him to become an above average 3pt shooter and score so effectively, along with solid defense and rebounding.

Splitter did dominate what many consider to be the 2nd best league in the world. Varejao and Nene' are both NBA proven (Nene' been the NBA for over a decade). Curry, Kwame Brown and Tyson Chandler were talented going out of high-school but the least "talented" of the 3 became a center-piece for several solid defenses (i.e The Hornets, Mavs, & Knicks).


Kmart doesn't seem interest in San Antonio nor do we have the cap to due so, we barely can afford James Anderson's 854,000 non-guaranteed contract without going over the 70.3 luxury tax line. Any thing near near vet. min. is cutting it razor close by a few thousand dollars and he may not take the minimum.

West has revived his career after a serious injury in New Orleans. He should be able to corral more than 5 million a season, After making 20 million coming off missing most of his last season with the hornets.

Alot of the small ball we've played has actually been Parker, Neal/Green, Manu, Sjax & Duncan. Kawhi plays in their some but mostly its those players closing games out

[TheCerebral1]

Why would you trade Kawhi Leonard for Varajeo. That may be the cost, but the phone call should hear a dialtone on the Spurs end if speaking with the GM of the Cavs.

[DMC]

So what you are saying is you would trade Kawhi AND Tiago for Fabricio Oberto? o.O

The Spurs are missing a guy who can clean up the glass and get cheap points by slipping his defender. Diaw does that well but he doesn't do it enough.

Again, it depends on what you want. You have to read my posts to see what I said I want. I've said three times (4 counting this one) that it depends on your goal. If you're content winning regular season games only to hit your ceiling in the playoffs, you're golden. If you want to compete for a ring, you have to build to beat the likes of a Miami or OKC, even though those two teams may not end up with the best regular season records. That may mean acquiring players who have played at that level. Leonard is promising, but so was Blair in his rookie year. Leonard will probably not decline, but then do you want to be a farm team or a championship team?

[DMC]

I think you significantly overvaluing Varejao and under stating the importance of Kawhi & Tiago. Splitter is an elite P&R finisher and Kawhi is continuing to develop but is already an above average, athletic defender who can score with out the ball (cutting and spot up 3's) and he is a fantastic rebounder for a small forward. The Spurs are 5th in defensive efficiency without two of our best wing defenders there's reason to believe we will get even better on that end and we are STILL underachieving on the offensive end (scary thought)

Let's see if you feel the same way after the playoffs next year.

[cd021]

Let's see if you feel the same way after the playoffs next year.

So you're for the trade idea? This clearly falls under if it aint broke...

[cd021]

The Spurs are missing a guy who can clean up the glass and get cheap points by slipping his defender. Diaw does that well but he doesn't do it enough.

Again, it depends on what you want. You have to read my posts to see what I said I want. I've said three times (4 counting this one) that it depends on your goal. If you're content winning regular season games only to hit your ceiling in the playoffs, you're golden. If you want to compete for a ring, you have to build to beat the likes of a Miami or OKC, even though those two teams may not end up with the best regular season records. That may mean acquiring players who have played at that level. Leonard is promising, but so was Blair in his rookie year. Leonard will probably not decline, but then do you want to be a farm team or a championship team?

The Spurs aren't a regular season team PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Your confusing losing in the post season twice for not being equip to win a championship. So you're saying that this Spurs squad is essentially the Atlanta Hawks?

The Spurs reinvention is still on going. You can't give it two years and throw your hands up and say you tried, when the spurs are clearly getting better while incorporating more players within the offense (Sjax, Diaw, De Colo, Mills). Varejao went to the Finals once he's not a championship level player he is an "elite role player" he does several things (I.E rebounding, & defending the P&R well.)

The spurs lost to Memphis, in part because Manu was literally playing one handed (he had a broken arm) & Duncan looked gases because of a long season. (He has since lost more than 25 lbs and changed his diet.).

Oklahoma City won 3 close games that far from a dominating and convincing series victory. The addition of Diaw, continued improvement of Tiago, and Mills emerging as "hot pocket" scorer along with Green becoming more of a confident scorer make any series between the two, a push at this point

Miami had the 4th best defense (efficiency) last season, and are currently 21st in the NBA (6.6 pts more per 100 possessions). Wade is continuing to struggle, like he did last season in the playoffs. They are vulnerable to interior scoring, Tiago scored 18 and missed like 6 shots against a healthy, well rested Heat team. Duncan appears able to carry the offense on his back again (he did last night in UTAH). The Heat could have problems stopping the spurs not the other way around.

[timvp]

The Spurs are missing a guy who can clean up the glass and get cheap points by slipping his defender. Diaw does that well but he doesn't do it enough.

Again, it depends on what you want. You have to read my posts to see what I said I want. I've said three times (4 counting this one) that it depends on your goal. If you're content winning regular season games only to hit your ceiling in the playoffs, you're golden. If you want to compete for a ring, you have to build to beat the likes of a Miami or OKC, even though those two teams may not end up with the best regular season records. That may mean acquiring players who have played at that level. Leonard is promising, but so was Blair in his rookie year. Leonard will probably not decline, but then do you want to be a farm team or a championship team?

So Anderson Varejao is the difference between the Spurs being a farm team or a championship team even though he would struggle to play 25 MPG against Miami or OKC due to their reliance on small ball. The Spurs are missing a guy to clean up the offensive glass even though Pop doesn't allow players to attempt to clean up the offensive glass.

DMC be trollin'.

[DMC]

So you're for the trade idea? This clearly falls under if it aint broke...

"If that's good enough for everyone (it is for me) then leave it be."

5 times

[DMC]

The Spurs aren't a regular season team PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Your confusing losing in the post season twice for not being equip to win a championship. So you're saying that this Spurs squad is essentially the Atlanta Hawks?

Pop said they overachieved last year. You do the math.


The Spurs reinvention is still on going. You can't give it two years and throw your hands up and say you tried, when the spurs are clearly getting better while incorporating more players within the offense (Sjax, Diaw, De Colo, Mills). Varejao went to the Finals once he's not a championship level player he is an "elite role player" he does several things (I.E rebounding, & defending the P&R well.)

Meanwhile the anchor for the team is already on a reduced salary contract, just shy of calling it quits. Sure he's balling, but he's still old in NBA years. Manu also isn't a youngster. All these building years you are talking about are worthless without the big 3. You aren't going to build a championship team with a bunch of scrub role players.

The Spurs aren't getting better. They sold off their defense for more offense and that, like it did the Suns, wins them regular season games. All one needs to do to see that truth is compare the scores back in the days of the rings to the scores now and then look at the Suns in their SSOL days.


The spurs lost to Memphis, in part because Manu was literally playing one handed (he had a broken arm) & Duncan looked gases because of a long season. (He has since lost more than 25 lbs and changed his diet.).

I am not convinced the Spurs would have beaten Memphis. Even if they did, they wouldn't have beaten the Mavs. Memphis was 1st round and not a true 8th seed.


Oklahoma City won 3 close games that far from a dominating and convincing series victory. The addition of Diaw, continued improvement of Tiago, and Mills emerging as "hot pocket" scorer along with Green becoming more of a confident scorer make any series between the two, a push at this point

OKC backdoor swept the Spurs. Do you not think other teams improve too? Do you think the Spurs have a secret where defense isn't required to win a championship? I bet Pop would love to know about it.


Miami had the 4th best defense (efficiency) last season, and are currently 21st in the NBA (6.6 pts more per 100 possessions). Wade is continuing to struggle, like he did last season in the playoffs. They are vulnerable to interior scoring, Tiago scored 18 and missed like 6 shots against a healthy, well rested Heat team. Duncan appears able to carry the offense on his back again (he did last night in UTAH). The Heat could have problems stopping the spurs not the other way around.

It's early.

Look at it this way: Miami has a car that's won the Daytona 500. We have a car that couldn't beat the car that Miami beat. We run the track more and more, our car is aging, but we are getting smoother in our driving. So is Miami. They have woes early on, big deal. They are in the East, and we don't have to worry about Miami until we get there. We have a lot of problems in the West. Hot shooting comes and goes, but defense is a staple that a team can fall back on during those tough shooting nights. We often won't have that level of defense during the playoffs when people like Matt Bonner cannot get an open look or he's too busy shitting himself to even take a shot. We won't be able to stop KD from scoring, hell Ibaka went perfect on us, like 11 for 11, most of them outside shots. Collison had a field day with us as well. RW ran through us like soup through a tall Swede. I wouldn't worry about Miami just yet. Like I've always said, if we get that far, we're already contenders. We aren't contenders just yet.


I know it makes Spurs fans giddy to pretend this is the year, but when you do what you've always done and expect different results, well you know the rest.

[DMC]

So Anderson Varejao is the difference between the Spurs being a farm team or a championship team even though he would struggle to play 25 MPG against Miami or OKC due to their reliance on small ball. The Spurs are missing a guy to clean up the offensive glass even though Pop doesn't allow players to attempt to clean up the offensive glass.

DMC be trollin'.

When I say "farm team" I mean do you want the Spurs to train potentials to sell to other teams or do you want them to win a ring? There are no more Tim Duncans or David Robinsons. We aren't going to get a 1st overall pick. No legit franchise player from any other team is going to ever play for SA while they are still young enough to matter.

The Spurs play a brand of basketball that, if more talented teams would play, they would be far and away the favorites to win. We don't have the talent, size, strength, speed... any of that... to win a championship UNLESS KD gets hurt and LA continues their downhill spiral (and Vinny actually does a Vinny).

I know the odds are low, and I am not an "I told you so" guy. I just don't see how it's even remotely possible for the Spurs to even win the West if all the stars aren't aligned in terms of injuries or penalties on other teams. They aren't going to suddenly become worse than the Spurs and our ceiling isn't going to suddenly increase. We are almost always playing to our ability, most of them are not.

[timvp]

When I say "farm team" I mean do you want the Spurs to train potentials to sell to other teams or do you want them to win a ring? There are no more Tim Duncans or David Robinsons. We aren't going to get a 1st overall pick. No legit franchise player from any other team is going to ever play for SA while they are still young enough to matter.

The Spurs play a brand of basketball that, if more talented teams would play, they would be far and away the favorites to win. We don't have the talent, size, strength, speed... any of that... to win a championship UNLESS KD gets hurt and LA continues their downhill spiral (and Vinny actually does a Vinny).

I know the odds are low, and I am not an "I told you so" guy. I just don't see how it's even remotely possible for the Spurs to even win the West if all the stars aren't aligned in terms of injuries or penalties on other teams. They aren't going to suddenly become worse than the Spurs and our ceiling isn't going to suddenly increase. We are almost always playing to our ability, most of them are not.

..............so I take that as a Yes that you think Anderson Varejao is the difference between being a farm team and a championship contending team.

[lcroock]

Trade Tiago-Bonner-Blair-Kawai for Love & Howard and then sign KMART.

[travis2]

The Spurs are missing a guy who can clean up the glass and get cheap points by slipping his defender. Diaw does that well but he doesn't do it enough.

Again, it depends on what you want. You have to read my posts to see what I said I want. I've said three times (4 counting this one) that it depends on your goal. If you're content winning regular season games only to hit your ceiling in the playoffs, you're golden. If you want to compete for a ring, you have to build to beat the likes of a Miami or OKC, even though those two teams may not end up with the best regular season records. That may mean acquiring players who have played at that level. Leonard is promising, but so was Blair in his rookie year. Leonard will probably not decline, but then do you want to be a farm team or a championship team?

And Varejao is supposedly a step up? He will make us the team to beat over Miami and OKC???

You want to give up our best on-the-ball defender for a guy who will never get more minutes from Pop than Tiago does now to make our defense better?

This makes absolutely zero sense...

[travis2]

So Anderson Varejao is the difference between the Spurs being a farm team or a championship team even though he would struggle to play 25 MPG against Miami or OKC due to their reliance on small ball. The Spurs are missing a guy to clean up the offensive glass even though Pop doesn't allow players to attempt to clean up the offensive glass.


What he said...

[DMC]

And Varejao is supposedly a step up? He will make us the team to beat over Miami and OKC???

You want to give up our best on-the-ball defender for a guy who will never get more minutes from Pop than Tiago does now to make our defense better?

This makes absolutely zero sense...

What doesn't make sense is that you cannot comprehend what I said in plain English like 5 times. I do not want to give them up because I am content being regular season champs. AV would not instantly make us champs, but he would make us contenders if we got that far. It's quite possible our regular season record would suffer enough so that we end up facing OKC in the 1st round and that could be that, however if we lose in the 1st round anyhow, what's the difference?

[DMC]

..............so I take that as a Yes that you think Anderson Varejao is the difference between being a farm team and a championship contending team.

Naw. I think that, if you don't want to be a farm team, you will eventually have to sacrifice some pawns to get some position on the board. Our end game is pretty much fucked right now, but goddamn we sure do open well. Spurs fan gets emotionally attached to these young players and overvalues them. We won't build a championship team (for sure) without making some moves.

From a financial standpoint, the Spurs are likely milking the big 3 for all they can get in regular season tickets and whatever post season appearances we can muster. That's fine with me. When TD retires, Leonard, if he's as good as some here think he will be, will end up elsewhere because there will be no reason to pay him big money when he's not going make big money impact. The same is true for Splitter. If you just think Leonard is going to make Bowen type money, he still might bolt because without a Tim Duncan because why would a talented player want to hang around San Antonio when teams like Boston, LA, Miami and NY are out there? Loyalty?

[cd021]

Pop said they overachieved last year. You do the math.

"Overachieving" isn't a smoking gun statement that makes us regular season team. Your math didn't have any work done. they Spurs won 50 of 66 games with Manu missing nearly half. We played over our heads in terms of our record. When we dominated UTAh & The Clippers I didn't hear this nonsense about being a regular season team, then.

Meanwhile the anchor for the team is already on a reduced salary contract, just shy of calling it quits. Sure he's balling, but he's still old in NBA years. Manu also isn't a youngster. All these building years you are talking about are worthless without the big 3. You aren't going to build a championship team with a bunch of scrub role players.

"Still old in NBA years" Who cares if he is techincally old if you can ball then you can ball. Nash,when healthy, Rasheed, Kidd, Kobe, Garnett, Allen & Terry all fall into old in NBA years, that doens't mean they are supposed to drop off a cliff in terms of production. Duncan has signed on for atleast one more year and probably 2 seasons. He is off the the best start of his career. Manu is coming off his best statistical season and has played better after a slow start with several nagging injuries. They aren't building around the Big 3 they're building around Parker who at 30 easily has 3 more seasons of Allstar caliber point guard play. Thats last part is really true of any team in any league its a little laughable that you felt the need to mention that. Mills has cracked the rotation Splitter is playing like an Allstar (atleast production wise). Diaw is starting to become more agressive on the offensive end. Neal is averaging a career high in scoring, Jackson is still capable of taking over a game when healthy on offense, Green's offensive game has made major strides considering he was waived 3 times his rookie year. Leonard is continuing to improve and should be even better than he was last playoffs.

The Spurs aren't getting better. They sold off their defense for more offense and that, like it did the Suns, wins them regular season games. All one needs to do to see that truth is compare the scores back in the days of the rings to the scores now and then look at the Suns in their SSOL days. They are 6th in defensive effiency, last year they were 11th. They're doing that without a pair of defensive minded 6'8 wings. Do the Math.

I am not convinced the Spurs would have beaten Memphis. Even if they did, they wouldn't have beaten the Mavs. Memphis was 1st round and not a true 8th seed. The Grizzles size wasn't the problem it was the length. Big athletic wings who made shots and passses more diffucult. Parker has shown drastic improvement since then and has played well against Memphis as of late. Leonard has had an noticeable impact against Gay. More shots to get less points in a down tempo offense isn't going to translate well in the postseason for Memphis. Also Parker won't have to guard Conley, he can guard a medocre shooter like Allen when Green checks Conley. Duncan & Splitter have logged significantly more time together since they were paired together late in that series. They work well together and Splitter is playing more physical, Z-Bo is gooing to have problems finishing over 2 excellent post defenders with long arms. He also has had problems scoring after being checked by Bonner. That Mavs team would have lost in 5 games. We would have dominated that team, Parker thrives against Dallas and would of had his way against the MAVS with or with out Chandler.

OKC backdoor swept the Spurs. Do you not think other teams improve too? Do you think the Spurs have a secret where defense isn't required to win a championship? I bet Pop would love to know about it.


Spurs 6th in Defensive effiency (do you even pay attention to stats?). OKC has one of the lowest scoring starting squads with an inexperienced bench (postseason wise) Maynor, has playing sparingly in the playoffs due to injury, Martin has played more seasons then playoff games. He is still unproven there. Collison is the only bench player that i'd know what i'd be getting. Westbrook has a tendency to shoot more that Durrant and turn the ball over (6-21 FG, 5 assists, 7 TO is what you can expect on any given night in the playoffs.) Durrant tends to dissapear for stretches because of Westbrook they don't play that well together, they seem to be competing against each other at times. The Clippers, for example, are going to cool off, Bledsoe is going to get buried on the bench while Hill & Billups (both are slower,less explosive, and not nearly as great of defenders, any more, as Bledsoe has been this season) Give Crawford time to show his true colors he'll go back to 14 pts on 4-15 shooting and 4 T.O's he starts off well on a new team then his production drops and becomes a liablity.

Its not getting that much better with 1/4 of the season done. They've had a fairly easy schedule and have allowed the Spurs B-team, Cleveland, & the Washington Generals to stay around by playing bad defense. Wade isn't nearly the player he was and role players like Allen, Chalmers and Miller have all been inconsistent and they still have little interior scoring.

Look at it this way: Miami has a car that's won the Daytona 500. We have a car that couldn't beat the car that Miami beat. We run the track more and more, our car is aging, but we are getting smoother in our driving. So is Miami. They have woes early on, big deal. They are in the East, and we don't have to worry about Miami until we get there. We have a lot of problems in the West. Hot shooting comes and goes, but defense is a staple that a team can fall back on during those tough shooting nights. We often won't have that level of defense during the playoffs when people like Matt Bonner cannot get an open look or he's too busy shitting himself to even take a shot. We won't be able to stop KD from scoring, hell Ibaka went perfect on us, like 11 for 11, most of them outside shots. Collison had a field day with us as well. RW ran through us like soup through a tall Swede. I wouldn't worry about Miami just yet. Like I've always said, if we get that far, we're already contenders. We aren't contenders just yet.


I know it makes Spurs fans giddy to pretend this is the year, but when you do what you've always done and expect different results, well you know the rest.

[cd021]

Dwight Howard can be covered by one guy. As has been seen in the past.

Pau Gasol has lost all motivation to play with the Lakers.

The Memphis frontline can be contained with the current Spurs roster. Hell I saw Stephen Jackson do a damn good job on Zach Randolph.

and Bonner helped make Z-Bo have the worst shootin game of the season as well.

[cd021]

Trade Tiago-Bonner-Blair-Kawai for Love & Howard and then sign KMART.

CAN WE FRAME THIS QUOTE ?! LMFAO

[Josepatches_]

Varejao is not really better than Tiago and he's older. Teammates with Brazil national team. Tiago was starter and played more minutes if I'm not wrong.

You could trade Tiago for Varejao. Add Kawhi? Pretty dumb.

[100%duncan]

Whi's fuckin untouchable, B.

[DMC]

Since you don't know how to use the quote function, I am not going to waste time separating your statements to respond to. Just accept I know more about this than you, and since you cannot even spell "Durant" properly, I don't have much hope that your take is any more solid. In fact, I've read it and it's Spurfan pie in the sky wishful thinking.

[Arcadian]

2) He relies a lot of pick-and-rolls, pick-and-pop and operating on the high post. Bigmen next to Duncan do very, very little of that.

He could be Duncan's backup, rather than playing next to him.