Pop Calls Out Danny Green - "Huge defensive error"

[timvp]

Said Pop: "You got to make him drive with that amount of time. That's why we put a bigger guy on Mo at the end so he couldn't get a shot off. You don't step off Mo Williams. What do you think he's going to do with two seconds on the clock? Instead of getting into him, he backed off. Huge defensive error."





I actually disagree with Pop. Green was reasonably close to him and fully extended by the time Mo went up into his shot. If Mo is going to knock down a 27-foot three-pointer with a taller player fully extended in his face, you tip your cap and go to the next game. Weak opinion by Pop, IMO.

If Green gets any closer to Mo in an attempt to make him drive, he becomes susceptible to a foul. With that young officiating crew, they probably blow the whistle on any sort of bump.

[Brunodf]

HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA, i said the same thing, he didn't close the distance, that was the mistake

[ElNono]

plus that play had Kawhi defending Mo all over it... but Leonard wasn't there... I can live with that Mo shot, tbh

[SpursRock20]

Maybe he is upset because he told Green to make Mo drive and Green did not do it.

[BanditHiro]

It seemed like Mo was going for the jumper no matter what. The guy made a hero ball shot it happens but damn of all the teams to lose to, the fucking Mormons.

[Sean Cagney]

Oh man just when I started to get over this bs loss now this comes.... Time to go to bed.

[Malik Hairston]

I disagree, you live with that shot..a contested, deep 3 from a career loser..

Pop should be more upset that Danny Green still can't dribble a ball or create a play for himself..

[benstanfield]

Playing fuckface for 12 minutes was the only "Huge defensive error"

[Paranoid Pop]

Trade Green+Blair for a pf. Anderson is better anyway, hopefully Pop is starting to see the light.

[Sean Cagney]

Trade Green+Blair for a pf. Anderson is better anyway, hopefully Pop is starting to see the light.

How the hell is Anderson better and when has he proven better? Are you serious? He is unproven as hell.

[024]

that was pretty good defense... don't know how green could have played it better, he forced williams to shoot a heavily contested 3 from a foot or two beyond the 3 pt line.

[Fabbs]

If Green gets any closer to Mo in an attempt to make him drive, he becomes susceptible to a foul. With that young officiating crew, they probably blow the whistle on any sort of bump.
Naw this isn't Laker Fag rigged.
Crew was letting them play pretty much all night and for the game ender they would have towed the NBA line that anything short of a mug goes at end-of-game.
He needs to close as the clock goes under 2 seconds.

[baseline bum]

I disagree, you live with that shot..a contested, deep 3 from a career loser..


this

If Mo Williams was any kind of end of game threat LeBron's ass would have still been in Cleveland.

[spurraider21]

i thought green got his hand up right in mo's face. it was as good a contest you're going to get without blocking the shot. plus, green has the height advantage on mo, so even if he wasn't RIGHT up in his grill its not an issue. mo made a gilbert arenas shot. if Mo missed, analysts would have called out mo for dribbling out the clock and settling for a really long 3 pointer over a taller defender

[pookenstein]

The biggest error was to sub Patty and Splitter out when they had it going and not playing Tiago down the strecht for Diaw.

[MI21]

I think Green played very solid defense there. Contested without fouling and was close.

But... I think it may have been the wrong defense. I would prefer to see Williams having to move sideways and be rushed, particularly as the clock wound down. Williams is a fantastic straight on, face up shot-maker. I would prefer to see him have to do something he isn't comfortable with.

Can't blame Danny though, the defense he played was good. Tip your hat to a clutch shot and move on.

[TrainOfThought5]

I agree with Pop on Mo... If you guys have played basketball you'll know about natural shooters. All they need is a "look and release". Pop didnt want to give Mo (a natural shooter) a clean look at the hoop, not from 7, 17, 27, or 37 feet from the hoop. An extended hand means nothing to natural shooters if they can get a clean look and release. so you have to take it away. personally, i question Green's clutchness, both offensively and defensively, outside of his lack of playmaking skills, im baffled at why a 6'6" player continues to miss point blank layups at the rim. Its outrageous and unacceptable. But i wont complain because i understand role players are just role players for a reason and hes on a very affordable contract.

[TrainOfThought5]

Speaking of 6'6" players that miss point blank shots at the rim... What the fuck is going on with dejuan Blair. Green seems to be taking the heat for this loss when in actuality blair was the worst player on the court tonight.

[Fireball]

The biggest error was to sub Patty and Splitter out when they had it going and not playing Tiago down the strecht for Diaw.


What the fuck is going on with dejuan Blair. Green seems to be taking the heat for this loss when in actuality blair was the worst player on the court tonight.

This ...

[hooperflash]

HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA, i said the same thing, he didn't close the distance, that was the mistake

Same fucking here! I love Danny but c'mon dude.



Exactly! Kept on saying 'Get closer, get closer, be
aggressive, put a body on him..”

Just because you are taller than the opposing player, does not mean you'd ease a bit.. You gotta treat last second shots like if MJ was shootin'em.

[polandprzem]

I agree with Pop on that one.
Green with 3 secs on tghe clock should have close the distance as much as possible without fouling. make him try to drive or something, just to disturb the play which was just to make a jumper. A set up jumper is more dangerous then the drive-in jumper from 20feet

[capek]

Said Pop: "You got to make him drive with that amount of time. That's why we put a bigger guy on Mo at the end so he couldn't get a shot off. You don't step off Mo Williams. What do you think he's going to do with two seconds on the clock? Instead of getting into him, he backed off. Huge defensive error."





I actually disagree with Pop. Green was reasonably close to him and fully extended by the time Mo went up into his shot. If Mo is going to knock down a 27-foot three-pointer with a taller player fully extended in his face, you tip your cap and go to the next game. Weak opinion by Pop, IMO.

If Green gets any closer to Mo in an attempt to make him drive, he becomes susceptible to a foul. With that young officiating crew, they probably blow the whistle on any sort of bump.

I think you're totally right, but tbh missing the point. It's like you're describing a totally different Pop than the one that was justifiably praised (by me, you, and most here) for making the decision to rest players against the Heat, because he was able to use it as a TEACHING opportunity for the bench and young players. Was that Pop not present when this Pop made that statement, or is it more likely that it's all the same Pop? :hat

So if it's all the same Pop, he likely chose to put out this statement for a specific purpose. What could that purpose be? Hmm, could it be intended to TEACH and MOTIVATE Green? Pop seems to be into that kind of thing. Let me unpack his statement as I understand it:

Pop basically overstated the "error" Green made in order to communicate several things to him. First, even though Green is for all intents and purposes a second year player, with this statement Pop is expressing the expectation that Green in capable of making the correct defensive play, in crunch time, every time. I mean, obviously Pop doesn't give a shit about a regular season loss here and there. And equally obvious to me is that he doesn't waste these motivational gambits on situations or players who he doesn't think can benefit from them. And finally I feel sure he knows that sometimes crazy shots or just great offense will beat even the best defensive effort.

So if you'd agree with all that, it's seems very likely to me that Pop wasn't really making a statement about this specific play at all. Instead, I'd posit that he was simply taking the opportunity to remind Green to forget the whole Sophomore mindset, that Green is now recognized by Pop as somebody who is capable of making the right play every minute that he's on the court, all the way up to the last play of a tied ball game. That he's going to be held to basically the same standard as a Timmy, or Tony, or Manu. Which in my eyes is a great way to motivate a kid who wasn't even expected to make the roster this time last year.

So I think this is motivational genius Pop at work, you just have to read between the lines.

Or maybe I'm just over analyzing it, and Pop just really hates making Mormons happy. :blah

[polandprzem]

I think that was obvious that Pop wanted to motivate Green and put fire under his ass.

The matter is, if that was a really defensive error

[rmt]

The biggest error was to sub Patty and Splitter out when they had it going and not playing Tiago down the strecht for Diaw.

This. Diaw was not having a good game - passing up wide open shots, traveling - when will Pop learn that he should play Tiago more when opponents have a very good frontline. I thought that the stretch where Diaw and De Colo messed up in a row and lost the lead cost them the game. It shouldn't have come down to the last play. Utah's big men are very good - too good to be playing Blair so many minutes - Tiago only 20 min when he was playing well. What a waste of a great game by Timmy.

I disagree with Pop about Danny's defense - what coach comes out of a time-out with a contested 3 from downtown as his play? Great shot - move on.

[spursnatic]

Yeah but in crunch time like that there were defensive errors all around...IMO, you press hard on the inbound don't even let them get it inbound...Then you don't give an inch to any shooter and play Man to Man D..

[SA210]

HAHAAAAAAAAAAAA, i said the same thing, he didn't close the distance, that was the mistake

:tu

[spurspokesman]

Good D but better offense. It happens

[Strategic]

I think this was more about the Popovich - Green dynamics than anything else. Pop needs a whipping boy to release his stress on, and Green knows that as long as he is on the other end of the angst, a job will be attached. Green is also a spot up shooter on offense, and he knows the NBA wipes its ass with spot up shooters.

[silverblackfan]

I prefer to think of this as a teaching moment for Pop and Danny. Green has become a key role player and had a few mistakes in the 4th quarter that snowballed into that last play. The foul under the basket after the turnover was probably more on his mind until Pop talks about this play.
i agree Splitter should have had more time over Blair...

[UZER]

The bigger mistake was not rotating over to hayward wit about 3 min to go. Dude was left wide open and even Parker was looking around like who didn't cover that guy. Spurs had a little momentum and that shot breathed life back into the jazz. I can temeber off the top of my head but I believe Neal was completely with his back to the play.

I said it at the time...if the jazz win its because of that shot right there.

[dunkman]

I agree with Pop, the last error that loses the game is the only one that counts. The Spurs have to play better in that moments.

[letmk]

Said Pop: "You got to make him drive with that amount of time. That's why we put a bigger guy on Mo at the end so he couldn't get a shot off. You don't step off Mo Williams. What do you think he's going to do with two seconds on the clock? Instead of getting into him, he backed off. Huge defensive error."

I actually disagree with Pop. Green was reasonably close to him and fully extended by the time Mo went up into his shot. If Mo is going to knock down a 27-foot three-pointer with a taller player fully extended in his face, you tip your cap and go to the next game. Weak opinion by Pop, IMO.

If Green gets any closer to Mo in an attempt to make him drive, he becomes susceptible to a foul. With that young officiating crew, they probably blow the whistle on any sort of bump.


This is exactly what I said. If it's against Paul or Westbrook, you know they have more than a couple tricks and they are fast enough to go past Green. In that case, I don't second guess Green's strategy as another choice might end up being beat up by another way. But even casual fans know MoWilliams' first & second choice would be shoot a 3-pointer.

[TampaDude]

Gotta make Mo put it on the floor. Oh, well...we'll beat the Blazers tonight, so it's all good.

[td4mvp21]

Well, given that Mo was reasonably behind the three-point line with about 3 seconds left, I can see why Pop says that. If there's that little time and he's still behind the line, you get up in his face. Danny was close but I think he could have pressured more.

[Mugen]

On the road against Utah, there's probably a better chance the ref calls a foul if Green is too tight than Mo hitting that contested 27 footer.

Green had several defensive errors in this game but that last play ranks pretty low.

[Fpoonsie]

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
'I' didn't make the plays we needed down the stretch on the defensive end of the floor...I'll take blame, let me teammates down...

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
Gon be a long night...of trying to sleep

[Fpoonsie]

I don't really fault the guy, and feel kinda bad for him here. I've followed him on Twitter for a while, and he's taking this one pretty hard.

[TampaDude]

Spurs lost that game long before the last shot, tbh...they should've been up by 8-10 points going into the final minute.

[Brunodf]

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
'I' didn't make the plays we needed down the stretch on the defensive end of the floor...I'll take blame, let me teammates down...

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
Gon be a long night...of trying to sleep

His offense wasn't good either, but he shouldn't take all the blame

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Danny Green si very hit or miss and probably shouldn't be a starter but I can't fault his effort.

[TDMVPDPOY]

there were just to many late rotations for the stupid open 3....fkn disgusting bball....

diaw needs to do more on offense then just being a playmaker out there on the floor, we already have 2-3 guys on at the same time doing that shit

[maverick1948]

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
'I' didn't make the plays we needed down the stretch on the defensive end of the floor...I'll take blame, let me teammates down...

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14
Gon be a long night...of trying to sleep

Open note to Danny Green.

The game ended last night. You played hard all night long and the TEAM came up short. Forget it and get your rest and be ready to play tonight. DeJuan, Manu, Nando and Gary were 4 for 21. Any of those shots drop for them and game is Spurs win. One play does not make a win or loss, 48 mins of play does.

[letmk]

I don't really fault the guy, and feel kinda bad for him here. I've followed him on Twitter for a while, and he's taking this one pretty hard.

I don't blame Green for the loss at all. In fact, I don't try to place blames on players after a game for the sake of it at all.

What we want to see if players learn from the experience and improve on what can be improved. Like I don't want to talk much about Blair at all as he is out of rotation for playoffs anyways, and all we want is that he also sits for regular season.

But for Green and for the team, how to better defend the last shot will be one of crucial factors for playoffs. This is an area he and the team can learn from these real games and improve later. This game is gone, the result doesn't mean much. But this is a valuable learning lesson.

[wildbill2u]

Spurs lost that game long before the last shot, tbh...they should've been up by 8-10 points going into the final minute.

Lot of that is on Green too. They lost the lead with Green playing a key role:
1. Continually losing their hot 3 pt shooter Hayward on the perimeter.
2. A really bad lazy inbounds pass attempt to Duncan that was stolen and they scored. No excuse for that one either.
3. You expect an NBA player to be able to make layups, especially wide-open shots at the rim. This isn't an exception with Green; he really has a lay-up problem.
4. Everyone in the stadium and at home watching Mo Williams hold the ball knew he was going to try to win the game with a last second shot. Green laid way off because Mo was so far out past the arc, but he should have closed the gap at 5 seconds and harassed his dribble to make Williams worry and possibly change his option from shooting to passing.

[TampaDude]

Lot of that is on Green too. They lost the lead with Green playing a key role:
1. Continually losing their hot 3 pt shooter Hayward on the perimeter.
2. A really bad lazy inbounds pass attempt to Duncan that was stolen and they scored. No excuse for that one either.
3. You expect an NBA player to be able to make layups, especially wide-open shots at the rim. This isn't an exception with Green; he really has a lay-up problem.
4. Everyone in the stadium and at home watching Mo Williams hold the ball knew he was going to try to win the game with a last second shot. Green laid way off because Mo was so far out past the arc, but he should have closed the gap at 5 seconds and harassed his dribble to make Williams worry and possibly change his option from shooting to passing.

Exactly.

[JRHernandez88]

Good, it's better he makes the mistake now then a big game. He's still young and learning, Ill put money on him not letting that happen again.

[gameFACE]

Maybe it was a defensive error but Mo was also 4-5 feet outside the arc. It was a damn lucky shot. I don't think he usually hits from that far out.

[sananspursfan21]

i didn't think for a second it was going in

[superbigtime]

Lot of that is on Green too. They lost the lead with Green playing a key role:
1. Continually losing their hot 3 pt shooter Hayward on the perimeter.
2. A really bad lazy inbounds pass attempt to Duncan that was stolen and they scored. No excuse for that one either.
3. You expect an NBA player to be able to make layups, especially wide-open shots at the rim. This isn't an exception with Green; he really has a lay-up problem.
4. Everyone in the stadium and at home watching Mo Williams hold the ball knew he was going to try to win the game with a last second shot. Green laid way off because Mo was so far out past the arc, but he should have closed the gap at 5 seconds and harassed his dribble to make Williams worry and possibly change his option from shooting to passing.

All true. He had a shitty game and not just the last 5 seconds.

[UZER]

They spurs looked disinterested most of the game...they were kinda going through the motions. I thought the jazz were gonna blow it open in the 4th so props to the spurs for grinding. At the end of the day you take your lumps and move on...gotta another tonight.

And man that Utah crowd has never lost their rowdiness for years and years and years. Great hostile environment to play.

[Fpoonsie]

[shrug] He also had some HUGE stops just a couple nights prior that sealed the game. Win some, lose some.

[TDfan2007]

Lot of that is on Green too. They lost the lead with Green playing a key role:
1. Continually losing their hot 3 pt shooter Hayward on the perimeter.
2. A really bad lazy inbounds pass attempt to Duncan that was stolen and they scored. No excuse for that one either.
3. You expect an NBA player to be able to make layups, especially wide-open shots at the rim. This isn't an exception with Green; he really has a lay-up problem.
4. Everyone in the stadium and at home watching Mo Williams hold the ball knew he was going to try to win the game with a last second shot. Green laid way off because Mo was so far out past the arc, but he should have closed the gap at 5 seconds and harassed his dribble to make Williams worry and possibly change his option from shooting to passing.

:tu x 1000

It is inexcusable to back off of a shooter w/ that much time left. If you just get in his face more and make him uncomfortable, then the percentages plummet. People keep mentioning how far Mo was, but I don't buy it. NBA shooters can hit from just about anywhere inside of 30, but the real key is making them uncomfortable. Mo was allowed to step into his shot, which for a shooter is everything. If Green pressures the ball even a little more, that step in 3 turns into an "oh shit why did I dribble for so long?" panicked 3.

[Dex]

Green basically touched Mo's fingertips as he got the shot off. You can't defend a three pointer much better than that without actually blocking the shot, and it's hard to do that if a guy is willing to rise up 3 feet behind the three-point line.

Good defense by Green. Better offense by Williams.

Always sucks to lose a nail-biter, but in the larger scheme of things, these things happen. Move on to the next one.

[Paranoid Pop]

[shrug] He also had some HUGE stops just a couple nights prior that sealed the game. Win some, lose some.

Yeah he did, but bottom line is he's one of Pop's favorite, gave him the starting SG spot in record time, called a lot of plays for him very early and so on, so I don't feel bad for him. Any other non TP/Manu guard would love to be in his position and his level of play is very irregular, good defense once in a while, good shooting once in a while...

I like him, seems like a good guy but would trade him for a big and start Manu again or slide KY to SG. He's one of three tradable players with SJax and Neal and imo the easiest to replace in the rotation.

[DesignatedT]

Love it. Doesn't matter what your opinion is on how to defend in that situation. Love the fact that he's calling people out this year, something he hasn't done as much the last couple years. Love that its about defense, obviously something that has been missing for the last few years. Love it.

[Bill_Brasky]

Green was just not very good overall last night. The lazy passing, bobbling every pass thrown his way, the dumb and 1 foul near the end(didn't make the FT, but still), sagging off Williams at the end(though a last second hero 3 from M:lol is the exact shot I think they wanted the Jazz to take)

Just wasn't his night, but the effort was there. He's just a really streaky player and we knew that when we signed him. Makes you wonder how that 2 guard spot would be looking right now with no JA foot injury.

[DPG21920]

I always wondered what would happen if players called coaches out for their mistakes :lol.

Like in the NY game if Tiago said "Pop made a huge tactical error by subbing me out when what we were doing was working. You can't in a big game in the fourth quarters take away momentum and go away from what was working". Is that not fair too?

[lefty]

Tony Parker chokedperiod

[timvp]

Now that I think about it more, I agree with those of you who said Pop's thinking was to motivate Green in general. Pop has had a chance to complain in a long time so he needed to take full advantage of this opportunity :lol

Mo's shot was probably a 25-30% attempt. Most of the time, that shot results in overtime...

[ploto]

I don't really agree with this tactic by Pop. Sure, maybe the defense was not perfect, but it was pretty good and Mo hit a big shot with a hand in his face as the buzzer sounded. I really do not see what calling out Green accomplishes. As Sean said, sometimes shots fall against pretty good defense. You accept it and move on. Putting the loss basically on one play by Green does not achieve anything positive. I fail to see how it motivates him.

[lefty]

Did we have a foul to give ?

[Whisky Dog]

I don't think Green needed motivation, he wasn't lacking effort at all. He really wanted it, he was just beaten by a guy who hit a difficult look at the buzzer. That's basketball, just gotta look at it like a baseball closer who blows a save and moves on to save the next one.

Several team mistakes down the stretch cost that game as it shouldn't have been close enough to lose in the last seconds. Missed rotation to Hayward at the 3 line twice in the last 3 minutes cost 6 points, and not getting that rebound on the possession before the last second shot was huge too.

[Chinook]

Let's hope Pop is pushing the right buttons. If he ends up destroying Green's confidence, the Spurs are going to lose a lot more games than people realize.

[TwoHandJam]

There were a lot of mistakes down the stretch that prevented us from getting separation from the Jazz. The one that bothered me the most was that ridiculous traveling call on Diaw with about 2 minutes left way out on the perimeter with no one really threatening him. At least Green was trying to do the right thing. Diaw was just temporarily retarded.

[phxspurfan]

It was a good shot against solid defense. The Jazz have shown an ability to pull games out at home, at least that's what the announcers were saying. No big deal, give Mo and the Jazz props for hanging in there all night and move on.

[justinandimcool]

If Green didn't have a tough college coach, I'd say this was a stupid move by Pop.

But he's a tough guy, always has been. I say it doesn't break has confidence at all and motivates him. Not for the near future but in the long term.

[tmtcsc]

There were a lot of mistakes down the stretch that prevented us from getting separation from the Jazz. The one that bothered me the most was that ridiculous traveling call on Diaw with about 2 minutes left way out on the perimeter with no one really threatening him. At least Green was trying to do the right thing. Diaw was just temporarily retarded.

Don't forget about the play where Manu didn't pass the ball to a wide open Diaw in the corner. Utah lost Diaw in a rotation and he was WIDE open after already hitting a 3 moments before. Pop jumped out of his chair he was so flabbergasted and pissed.

Lots of blame to go around for that loss last night. As for Green, if your coach says don't let the guy shoot, then you shadow him and don't let him shoot. Pop's right, when Mo caught the ball and didn't make any move whatsoever to drive the ball, that should have told you that he had two options, pass or shoot. He was so far from the hoop that he wasn't going to shoot a layup.

[timvp]

As Sean said, sometimes shots fall against pretty good defense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtI-QLCW9P8

Mo's shot was similar to Michael Finley's shot against Elliott back in 2000. Tbh, Finley's shot was a lot more difficult. He was on the move, fading away and Elliott timed his jump perfectly...

[justinandimcool]

Anyone else see last night's shot and just smile in silence?

I think all those lucky shots OKC hit in the WCF last year desensitized me to these types of moments. I expect every low percentage prayer attempt against us to go in, tbh.

[Obstructed_View]

Only losers settle for three point attempts in a fucking tie game, and the Spurs forced one. There were a dozen shots I'd have been more annoyed to see the Spurs give up. I've never seen Danny Green block an outside jumper in one-on-one defense, so I'm unsure what the hell Pop expected Danny to do. That shot's going in unless Green actually gets a hand on it.

[ace3g]

instead of just back peddling and letting Mo walk into the 3 (yeah he still contested it but let Mo get where he wanted to on the court) he should have forced him to the left or right while still keeping him behind the 3.

[DesignatedT]

I have no problem with giving up that shot but you shouldn't let a player size up uncontested for 10 seconds before he shoots it. Make him move around instead of getting comfortable looking at the rim.

[Arcadian]

Leonard would've blocked that shit in Mo's face.

[dylankerouac]

Mo shot that in rhythm, that was the mistake. Better now than the playoffs.

[exstatic]

Only losers settle for three point attempts in a fucking tie game, and the Spurs forced one. There were a dozen shots I'd have been more annoyed to see the Spurs give up. I've never seen Danny Green block an outside jumper in one-on-one defense, so I'm unsure what the hell Pop expected Danny to do. That shot's going in unless Green actually gets a hand on it.

I don't think Pop wanted him to block it, I think he wanted Danny to force him to put the ball on the floor instead of getting a stationary look at the rim.

[hater]

don't blame Green for that last play. He did ok and come on, it was a twenty something high arching footer. lucky shot

but I do blame him for the multiple missed dunks, assignments and fuckups. He played horribly and was the 2nd worst player after Blair

[MmP]

To me it was a gret defense

[TheChillFactor]

to call him out after making clutch defensive plays against Lin a couple of nights ago is pretty weak. Danny Green lost the game? Really? Pinning it on him is a chickenshit move honestly.

[crc21209]

Meh..I don't think Green did anything wrong. What more did Pop want? I mean yeah Danny could have gotten up in Mo a little more but then you risk a foul being called on you. It was just a BS luck shot. You know your an idiot when you go for a contested 28 foot three point shot in a tie game...

[Capt Bringdown]

An extended hand means nothing to natural shooters if they can get a clean look and release. so you have to take it away.
Good point. Defensive footwork and positioning is more effective than getting a hand up.

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

There's not a reason to worry about this Jazz squad. Their just like any other year where they go on the occasional 5 or 6 game streak, go into a slump, come back later in the regular season, and end up exiting in the first round.

[Capt Bringdown]

Funny how you often hear that a particular player error was not the cause of a loss, that the game was actually lost earlier due to X.
I've never seen that same rationale applied when somebody hits a game-winning shot...

[DJR210]

I still believe Green is no better than an average defender, and is a huge liability on the offensive end as well. The guy cannot finish near the rim, and has not shown reliability when it counts. I do understand that he has made a few big plays at the buzzer over the past couple of years, including the one in Dallas that JUST exceeded the final buzzer.

I understand he is young with upside, but at this point I question his worth on the team after this season.

[hater]

Green = Dick Jeff

when it is all said and done

[DJR210]

Green = Dick Jeff

when it is all said and done

Except presumably hetero?

[Paranoid Pop]

I still believe Green is no better than an average defender, and is a huge liability on the offensive end as well. The guy cannot finish near the rim, and has not shown reliability when it counts. I do understand that he has made a few big plays at the buzzer over the past couple of years, including the one in Dallas that JUST exceeded the final buzzer.

I understand he is young with upside, but at this point I question his worth on the team after this season.

Yep, he's a great guy but he's not very good at basketball imo, a guard handling the ball like Bonner wtf... Let's free Jax and play play KY at his true position, the 2.

When it's all said and done I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sex scandal going on backstage ala Sandusky, can't tell me Pop fell in love with Bonner and Green for their bb skills...

[Chinook]

Leonard is not a shooting guard. He's a small forward. He doesn't play the three out of necessity. He plays it because that's his NBA position. He needs a lot more work offensively before he becomes able to play any more than spot minutes at the two.

We keep going along in this song and dance on this board, with some people saying, "It doesn't matter what the stats say. It doesn't matter how many games he finishes defensively. It doesn't matter how many big shots he hits. Danny Green is not a good player." I don't get it. He's had a rough time for most of the games where he has to play the three, but that doesn't cover up the fact that he was arguably the most impactful wing the Spurs had last year.

This idea that Kawhi is some jack of all trades and Green is just a master of none is not true at all. Leonard is the future, but as far as present goes, both he and Green have had their share of playing awesome defense and getting beat like a drum. Kawhi made an awesome defensive play to help beat OKC this year; Green had an even better one in the regular season last year. Neither of them really showed up against the Thunder in the playoffs. It's been great to have them both and to see them grow. Leonard may have been able to stop Williams from making that three two days ago, but it's likely he wouldn't have made all the plays Green did down the stretch against the Rockets. That's why you have multiple players.

[Paranoid Pop]

KY's offensive repertoire is irrelevant, he can shoot the 3 like Danny and he has also shown hints of a mid range game, but he's a stopper, a defensive specialist and he's not made to defend 3s like Lebron, Durant, Metta and so on, he's not strong enough, he's way too small at this point in his career while he can actually defend 2s (and switch on PGs) efficiently. So basically we're making KY's life harder to play a scrub, very reminiscing of Tim/Blair tbh. Jax is strong enough to defend anyone as he has shown in the past.

[DMC]

One shot in the game did not beat us. It might have been a defensive error, but there's no reason to focus on that one play. Had Mo taken that shot 10 minutes earlier, Pop would have lived with it. I understand situations change but points are points, and if the team doesn't have Blair shitting the bed, they probably aren't looking at that last second shot anyhow.

Like I said, Blair really really sucks, now someone come along and show his stats and call me ignorant.

[Chinook]

KY's offensive repertoire is irrelevant, he can shoot the 3 like Danny and he has also shown hints of a mid range game, but he's a stopper, a defensive specialist and he's not made to defend 3s like Lebron, Durant, Metta and so on, he's not strong enough, he's way too small at this point in his career while he can actually defend 2s (and switch on PGs) efficiently. So basically we're making KY's life harder to play a scrub, very reminiscing of Tim/Blair tbh. Jax is strong enough to defend anyone as he has shown in the past.

Where is this idea that Kawhi is some guard-stopper coming from? It's not coming from reality. Truth is, Pop trusts (or at least used to trust) Green to take the smaller guards while Kawhi is supposed to take the bigger guards and forwards. Kawhi will get better at stopping point guards as he gets more experienced , but he's not there now (he still bites on fakes worse than Green does). And no, he's not too small to play the three defensively. Kawhi's best defensive games have come when guarding forwards (Gay and Durant). He was a power-forward in college. If anything, he's trying to get lighter right now.

It's not all about size when you're talking about defending wings, anyway. Smaller players who play fundamentally sound defense will be able to hold off bigger players, which is why players like Bowen and Tony Allen can guard so many positions. And if Green can guard World Peace, Leonard can, too. It just so happened that Kawhi failed to do so as a rookie last year (mainly due to intimidation in the first game) while Green proved able to. Anderson guarded James well, and he's two inches shorter and 19 pounds lighter than Leonard. Jackson is just one inch taller than Leonard and (according to DraftExpress) 23 pounds lighter. Add in Leonard's wingspan, and there's no question what position he is going to play. The only way he ever plays the two consistently is if the he's playing with a forward like Durant.

And here we go with the "Green's a scrub" nonsense again. He's won the Spurs as many games as Kawhi has. He's also a heck of a team defender, which is something at which Leonard is still improving. I don't get why people make it about being one versus the other. When everyone is healthy, Green, Leonard, Manu and Jackson know their roles and play them really well. It's the other players that are causing the personnel changes.

[Paranoid Pop]

Where is this idea that Kawhi is some guard-stopper coming from?

Eye test tbh, doubt there's much data on it since he got so few opportunities to do it, I remember Kawhi switching on CP3 and Kobe.


It's not coming from reality. Truth is, Pop trusts (or at least used to trust) Green to take the smaller guards while Kawhi is supposed to take the bigger guards and forwards. Kawhi will get better at stopping point guards as he gets more experienced , but he's not there now (he still bites on fakes worse than Green does). And no, he's not too small to play the three defensively. Kawhi's best defensive games have come when guarding forwards (Gay and Durant). He was a power-forward in college. If anything, he's trying to get lighter right now.

:downspin: Can't try top get smaller to play the 3 when Metta post him like he's a fly already...


It's not all about size when you're talking about defending wings, anyway. Smaller players who play fundamentally sound defense will be able to hold off bigger players, which is why players like Bowen and Tony Allen can guard so many positions. And if Green can guard World Peace, Leonard can, too. It just so happened that Kawhi failed to do so as a rookie last year (mainly due to intimidation in the first game) while Green proved able to. Anderson guarded James well, and he's two inches shorter and 19 pounds lighter than Leonard. Jackson is just one inch taller than Leonard and (according to DraftExpress) 23 pounds lighter. Add in Leonard's wingspan, and there's no question what position he is going to play. The only way he ever plays the two consistently is if the he's playing with a forward like Durant.

Sjax has bigger legs, he doesn't get pushed around when gets posted, even vs monster PFs.


And here we go with the "Green's a scrub" nonsense again. He's won the Spurs as many games as Kawhi has. He's also a heck of a team defender, which is something at which Leonard is still improving. I don't get why people make it about being one versus the other. When everyone is healthy, Green, Leonard, Manu and Jackson know their roles and play them really well. It's the other players that are causing the personnel changes.

Green is scrubing right now, that can't be argued, and when you look back he was on a scrub team in Poland or something not so long ago and not doing any wave, I'd say the real level of Green is very much up in the air. I love Diaw and I can tell you he's scrubing as well (except in his case there's hope that he's coasting), like I said he's a good guy, he's no RJ for sure but I don't think he's good enough to be the undisputed starter Pop decided he was by a long shot.

[Chinook]

Eye test tbh, doubt there's much data on it since he got so few opportunities to do it, I remember Kawhi switching on CP3 and Kobe.

He did switch on to Kobe (bigger guard), whom Kawhi stopped at the end of this season's game against the Lakers. But Kobe also took advantage of Leonard a lot when Kawhi was on him for a full game. Kawhi also had a good possession against Paul in overtime during the regular season last year. But it was Green who stopped him at the end of game four in the playoffs. Green gets burned sometimes, but Pop probably would've put him on Lin instead of Leonard last Rockets game anyway.


:downspin: Can't try top get smaller to play the 3 when Metta post him like he's a fly already...

Green's smaller, and he could do it. Size doesn't matter as much with perimeter players, because offensive fouls get called a lot more for bulldozing players. Leonard may need to get some more nasty before he's ready to take on such a physical battle, but hiding him on guards isn't going to help him do that.


Sjax has bigger legs, he doesn't get push around when gets posted, even vs monster PFs.

Sure, so why should Jack leave his role as small-ball four just to increase the Spurs' bench wing problem?


Green is scrubing right now, that can't be argued, and when you look back he was on a scrub team in Poland or something not so long ago and not doing any wave, I'd say the real level of Green is very much up in the air. I love Diaw and I can tell you he's scrubing as well (except in his case there's hope that he's coasting), like I said he's a good guy, he's no RJ for sure but I don't think he's good enough to that undisputed starter by a long shot.

Green had a bad game following a mediocre game following one of the best games he's played in his career. I don't see how that's scrubbing. He's been down this year when compared to last year, and I think a lot of that is due to him having to play small-forward (for which he is actually is too small) and in general being nervous about living up to his contract. He'll benefit most from Leonard returning, because it will allow him to be himself again.

The real level of Green isn't just based off one year with the Spurs. He was this type of player at UNC as well. He's always been a glue guy, a Jared Dudley guy. He's used to playing with star-talent and staying out of the way while doing the little things needed for success. He was also a leader and a key cog to a championship team. Those qualities have translated to the NBA. But frankly, I think he's really worn out. I've seen him ask for subs and Pop shake his head.

Green's far more consistent in his role than all other shooting guards on the Spurs. When Manu gets all the way there, he'll be consistent off the bench, and everything will make sense again. Pop and Green need to fix this situation, because an actualized Green (the one we saw during the Spurs' run last season) makes the Spurs into an elite team. That may seem like absurdly high praise, but the numbers bear it out.

[polandprzem]

I do not see any problem considering Pop and Green


When Pop will have time to have a training session spurs gonna try to fix all the problems.

[kobyz]

i agree with Pop, it was a big mistake by Green, he should have play Mo much more aggresive for the drive with that little amount of time, but instead he generous backed off of him when he catching the ball and let Mo to relatively comfortable getting into his shot!

[TDMVPDPOY]

can u clowns stop overrating the players....if they were that good, teams would be callin for a trade...

[Chinook]

Green's problem isn't technique. He played the "wrong" defense, but he played it as well as anyone on the team would. If Pop wants to show tough love by embarrassing him, I can get that, so long as it's coupled with continuing to put Green out there in those situations. That sends a message of, "You messed up, but you're still important to what we're doing here." But from what Green was saying, how he was acting last night and how Pop played him as a result, that message didn't get through. That combined with Tony and Pop laying into him for what was admittedly a horrible fastbreak mistake and Pop consistently going with a cold Neal over a decently warm Green just took its toll on the chemistry. The rotations became so bad that by the end I didn't even know what the hell Pop was doing.

[DJR210]

Yep, he's a great guy but he's not very good at basketball imo, a guard handling the ball like Bonner wtf... Let's free Jax and play play KY at his true position, the 2.

When it's all said and done I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sex scandal going on backstage ala Sandusky, can't tell me Pop fell in love with Bonner and Green for their bb skills...

an EXTRAAAAAAAA late LMFAO at that shit.. sorry to bump this old ass thread, just figured out how to use the new quoted message tracker..

[MI21]

Even though this bump is for a different reason, the thread kind of has some relevancy.

At the end Tony pushed up on Kyrie making him have to do something rather than spacing him so he can launch a triple (he made a game winner a few weeks back from the same spot). Against Mo Williams, Danny backed off and allowed Mo to get a clean look. Sure, circumstances were different but this can serve as a little lesson for Danny when it comes to defending isolations with the clock winding down.

:tu TP.

[DesignatedT]

Yeah, don't let shooters get a clean look. Even if they are 3 ft behind the 3 pt line. A shooter is a shooter and practice those shots all the damn time.

[timvp]

Good accidental bump.

The Mo Williams shot is exactly the play I thought of when TP got up on Irving and forced him to put the ball on the ground. If Parker lays off Irving, the Spurs probably lose. It would've looked something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFkAP2MNd4

[DJR210]

Good accidental bump.

The Mo Williams shot is exactly the play I thought of when TP got up on Irving and forced him to put the ball on the ground. If Parker lays off Irving, the Spurs probably lose. It would've looked something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFkAP2MNd4

LMAO at the beautiful turban at :03 btw... I was surpised to see Parker guarding Irving on the final shot opposed to Kawhi, it goes to show the confidence Pop has in his PG's defense tbh..

[MI21]

It is actually an even riskier move for TP to pull and shows he has an extreme amount of confidence in his individual D because Kyrie is the best or second best (CP3) ballhandler in the NBA. Danny didn't have that to worry about against Williams.

[TDfan2007]

Danny Green is an average defender at best with low IQ on the defensive end (as opposed to the offensive end, where he's in the right spot more often than not). I was hoping he'd round into a solid defender last season, but it seems that his ceiling is being a solid option to put on scoring PGs to give TP a blow.

[ChumpDumper]

Danny Green is an average defender at best with low IQ on the defensive end (as opposed to the offensive end, where he's in the right spot more often than not). I was hoping he'd round into a solid defender last season, but it seems that his ceiling is being a solid option to put on scoring PGs to give TP a blow.Um, lol?

[TDfan2007]

Um, lol?

You can lol if you want, but he can't seem to stay in front of his man and has a very difficult time navigating through screens. He's also notorious for making those bone-headed "ticky-tack" and-1 fouls. He definitely competes, and his transition D is solid, but I wouldn't call him a good defender. He has the same issues as Neal, but he's just not AS deficient.

Tonight's game was a good example. The guy got torched by a rookie, and it wasn't like Waiters (sp?) was hitting tough jumpers, he was just blowing by Danny on almost every play.

[ChumpDumper]

You can lol if you wantOK.

:lol

[DAF86]

It's true; Green can't stay in front of anybody, his defense is overrated.

[TDfan2007]

OK.

:lol

I've been on this board for a long time, and I hardly ever read an actual opinion from you. Usually its some form of a sarcastic/humorous response to a post that you don't agree with. Do you care to share your evaluation of Danny's defense, or are you just going to :lol on your high horse?

[ChumpDumper]

I've been on this board for a long time, and I hardly ever read an actual opinion from you. Usually its some form of a sarcastic/humorous response to a post that you don't agree with. Do you care to share your evaluation of Danny's defense, or are you just going to :lol on your high horse?I'll go with high horse tonight.

[Kidd K]

Old ass thread, lol. I did agree with Pop's opinion though. You do not allow a guy to take an uncontested three (and yes, I consider it practically uncontested if you let a guy get into the air and begin the shooting motion before you even get a hand close to him) even if it's a 27 footer when the game is on the line. You get on him and force him to do something. Not allow him to step into a shot which, obviously, extends his range by a few feet.

Parker defended Kyrie perfectly. I don't think Green deserved to be called out since he played decent, normal defense (didn't totally blow it), but technically he could've played it better. These guys can hit froma few feet beyond the 3pt line now. You just don't play conservative D' on the last play when the game's on the line. You have to put all of your energy into it, not sit back and conserve energy until the guy starts to move like it's any other possession in the game. Bruce Bowen and Kawhi Leonard would've never done that imo. Even Parker didn't.

[ElNono]

You can lol if you want, but he can't seem to stay in front of his man and has a very difficult time navigating through screens. He's also notorious for making those bone-headed "ticky-tack" and-1 fouls. He definitely competes, and his transition D is solid, but I wouldn't call him a good defender. He has the same issues as Neal, but he's just not AS deficient.

Tonight's game was a good example. The guy got torched by a rookie, and it wasn't like Waiters (sp?) was hitting tough jumpers, he was just blowing by Danny on almost every play.

agreed

[ElNono]

Good accidental bump.

The Mo Williams shot is exactly the play I thought of when TP got up on Irving and forced him to put the ball on the ground. If Parker lays off Irving, the Spurs probably lose. It would've looked something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFkAP2MNd4

That's a tough shot regardless... not saying he doesn't have the range, but Kyrie was having an off shooting night tonight anyways.

The problem for Tony is that if he tries to pull that physical D on, say, Westbrook, he'll flop and it's a foul.

[Pasta Batman]

Parker was awesome, and I don't want to take anything away from that, but Kyrie slipped and never really had full balance. Looked like he double dribbled too. Either way, glad they didn't score and got away with the win.

[exstatic]

Parker was awesome, and I don't want to take anything away from that, but Kyrie slipped and never really had full balance. Looked like he double dribbled too. Either way, glad they didn't score and got away with the win.

He slipped because Parker crowded him and he had to try to make a move in too limited a space.

[Pasta Batman]

He slipped because Parker crowded him and he had to try to make a move in too limited a space.

He crowded him and many others have crowded people, but he slipped and bobbled the ball. That happened. That doesn't mean Parker didn't play it well (throughout the game actually). But Kyrie still lost his footing. That did happen. It helped secure the win, so I'm happy with it.

[Chinook]

Good accidental bump.

The Mo Williams shot is exactly the play I thought of when TP got up on Irving and forced him to put the ball on the ground. If Parker lays off Irving, the Spurs probably lose. It would've looked something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFkAP2MNd4

I'm surprised no one mentioned that Kawhi had the assignment of defending Waiters on what could have been last shot and got beat with a step-back. Leonard hit the game-winner a few seconds later, but he had his chance to preserve a tie on defense and didn't get it done, either.

[pgardn]

This serves as a reminder of Parker's quickness on D for me. He does have a bit of a problem with stronger guys. Irving will get stronger making him really tough to guard. Leonard has the physical luxury of length and strength, Green lacks both. If Leonard can learn to tap dance like Bowen.... don't think it's possible.


How bout Duncan in the last two minutes... Great hands on those offensive rebounds. But I digress...

[CGD]

Is it me, or has Pop been riding Danny pretty hard this year? He has had some weak games, but I've thought Danny's had an above-average season, which I think is his ceiling tbh.

[Chinook]

Is it me, or has Pop been riding Danny pretty hard this year? He has had some weak games, but I've thought Danny's had an above-average season, which I think is his ceiling tbh.

In some ways, Green has been the whipping boy, even though he's done a lot this season. But I think Pop is hard on him, because Green's "above-average season" is NOT his ceiling. Green will never be an awesome athlete who can finish in traffic or become great at dribbling through traffic, but he can be a lot better than he is. He can become more consistent shooting, especially from mid-range. He can work on finishing uncontested layups. He can become more consistent in his defensive awareness. Green's already working on his drive-and-kick game, and I think that's been going under the radar on this site. If he had any game inside the three-point line, his assist game would improve dramatically.

There's nothing stopping him from averaging 15/4/4 with a couple of blocks and steals and only a couple of turnovers except his streakiness. He may never get over that, but if he doesn't it's not going to be because of his physical limitations.

That being said, this board is pretty biased against him. It's to the point that defending him makes me feel like a homer.

[Embedded]

I learned a lot from Mr. Parker's game-winning defense on Kyrie Irving. Unlike the Danny/Mo Williams situation, by bodying up the way Tony did, Kyrie couldn't get an on-balance shot, because if he brought the ball straight up it would have been exposed. When Tony was in his space like that, the only way to bring the ball up is in a circular motion, and then he would have been off balance. Mr. Green seemed afraid of Mo Williams blowing by him, but if he trusted in his help a little more it would have helped. Even so, Mo would have had to try to take a running shot with a long defender on his heels, I like those odds. I was really proud of the defensive stop, and Mr. Leonard's previous clutch three.

[Dex]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that Kawhi had the assignment of defending Waiters on what could have been last shot and got beat with a step-back. Leonard hit the game-winner a few seconds later, but he had his chance to preserve a tie on defense and didn't get it done, either.

Kawhi defended that Waiters shot as well as one possibly can without actually blocking the shot. He got crossed over, but was still able to get back in the play and get a hand up for a good contest. If a rookie is going to hit a tough, step-back fadeway jumper over an outstretched hand to beat you, then you tip your hat to him....and then go back on the other side of the floor and drain a three for the win.

[Raven]

tbh danny is playing very solid D this year, he is not perfect but if you compare the other starting sg in the league, he could be classified around #5 and #10.. wade, tony allen, iggy are obviously far ahead but then it is an open battle.. Spurs fans are just really spoiled when it comes to D as we have always been the best at that..

[Chinook]

I learned a lot from Mr. Parker's game-winning defense on Kyrie Irving. Unlike the Danny/Mo Williams situation, by bodying up the way Tony did, Kyrie couldn't get an on-balance shot, because if he brought the ball straight up it would have been exposed. When Tony was in his space like that, the only way to bring the ball up is in a circular motion, and then he would have been off balance. Mr. Green seemed afraid of Mo Williams blowing by him, but if he trusted in his help a little more it would have helped. Even so, Mo would have had to try to take a running shot with a long defender on his heels, I like those odds. I was really proud of the defensive stop, and Mr. Leonard's previous clutch three.

Parker also had the benefit of only having to guard Irving for three seconds. Green had to guard Williams for eight if I recall correctly. You can't body up a player for that long. Eight seconds is long enough that the refs would be more inclined to call a foul. In fact, I wasn't sure if there was going to be a whistle last night.

As far as Williams going by Green, that's actually what Pop would have preferred. Had Williams gone to the basket, he'd've had to face Duncan's length. Had Green played Williams the way Pop wanted him to, that last-second shot could have been a contested step-back (like the shot Waiters hit on Leonard last night with about eight seconds to go) instead of a contested three-pointer.

Or it could have been a foul. If Green had made contact, and Williams had flailed up a shot, that could've been three free throws. I can understand Green thinking a contested three was better than giving up three chances to win the game at the line. I imagine Pop told Green exactly what he wanted him to do and Green just failed to do it. If he didn't, I don't think one can fault Green's choice too much. I would have made the same decision he did in a vacuum.

EDIT 1: It was 6.7 seconds that Green had to guard Williams, and was about 10 seconds left when Waiters hit the shot over Leonard.

EDIT 2: And Parker technically fouled Irving three times on that play. I don't think it would ever get call on a slipping player, but it's possible that someone with less NBA cred would've had that whistled blown, especially considering that Irving is a borderline superstar.

[Chinook]

Kawhi defended that Waiters shot as well as one possible can without actually blocking the shot. He got crossed over, but was still able to get back in the play and get a hand up for a good contest. If a rookie is going to hit a tough, step-back fadeway jumper over an outstretched hand to beat you, then you tip your hat to him....and then go back on the other side of the floor and drain a three for the win.

Hell yeah, Leonard was a boss to go back and sink the game-winner. In general, he was awesome on multiple possessions at the end of that game. As I said in the Church thread, on the two possessions prior, he had consecutive blocks that should have won the game, but the Spurs missed their shots.

A step-back is a hard shot, but so is a contested three-pointer. Had Pop said Green's defense was good, no one would have questioned it.

[benefactor]

In some ways, Green has been the whipping boy, even though he's done a lot this season. But I think Pop is hard on him, because Green's "above-average season" is NOT his ceiling. Green will never be an awesome athlete who can finish in traffic or become great at dribbling through traffic, but he can be a lot better than he is. He can become more consistent shooting, especially from mid-range. He can work on finishing uncontested layups. He can become more consistent in his defensive awareness. Green's already working on his drive-and-kick game, and I think that's been going under the radar on this site. If he had any game inside the three-point line, his assist game would improve dramatically.

There's nothing stopping him from averaging 15/4/4 with a couple of blocks and steals and only a couple of turnovers except his streakiness. He may never get over that, but if he doesn't it's not going to be because of his physical limitations.

That being said, this board is pretty biased against him. It's to the point that defending him makes me feel like a homer.
Good post. No reason to feel bad about defending him. Most of the posters up here have the critical thinking ability of a brain damaged chimp.

What is going on with Green now is not much different than what went on with Parker when he was young. The hard pushing from Pop, IMO, was instrumental in Parker reaching his full potential as a player. Pop saw there was more and squeezed Parker until he got it out of him. He knew there was greatness in him so he stayed on him until he saw it on the floor. Now with Green, of course, you are not talking about the same level of player...but the method is the same. Pop can see that Green has another level in him so he is staying on him until Green gets all the little things out of his game that are holding him back. All the mistakes that Green is making are correctable and Pop is simply pushing him like he did Parker until Green arrives at the place he should be at as a player. How Green responds mentally will determine the end result.

[024]

leonard didn't contest the shot very well. if you watch it in very slow motion and from a different angle, the ball was already near waiters' head and waiters was already jumping before leonard starts extending his hand. he got bogged down on the screen and was slow to recover, which gave waiters the space needed to shoot a relatively open shot. it might look closer on the normal camera angle but that angle is deceptive. there was more space between them than was shown. pop and leonard both knew this, that is why pop gave him the opportunity to make it up by giving him the game winning 3.

[Chinook]

leonard didn't contest the shot very well. if you watch it in very slow motion and from a different angle, the ball was already near waiters' head and waiters was already jumping before leonard starts extending his hand. he got bogged down on the screen and was slow to recover, which gave waiters the space needed to shoot a relatively open shot. it might look closer on the normal camera angle but that angle is deceptive. there was more space between them than was shown. pop and leonard both knew this, that is why pop gave him the opportunity to make it up by giving him the game winning 3.

Interesting point, and it ties into the post that benefactor made above this one. That was a definite coaching moment. It reminds me of Pop giving Green the chance to come back immediately after making huge mistakes in the Nets game. He's usually good at not letting a young player sit down without a chance to correct their errors. He even gave Green multiple chances last night, and he just didn't get it done.

The Spurs have on their hands a pair of wings with the potential to really lock down two positions for several more years. But they are both really streaky. I hope Pop has a chance to mold them into mature players before he hangs them up.

[Pasta Batman]

Good post. No reason to feel bad about defending him. Most of the posters up here have the critical thinking ability of a brain damaged chimp.

What is going on with Green now is not much different than what went on with Parker when he was young. The hard pushing from Pop, IMO, was instrumental in Parker reaching his full potential as a player. Pop saw there was more and squeezed Parker until he got it out of him. He knew there was greatness in him so he stayed on him until he saw it on the floor. Now with Green, of course, you are not talking about the same level of player...but the method is the same. Pop can see that Green has another level in him so he is staying on him until Green gets all the little things out of his game that are holding him back. All the mistakes that Green is making are correctable and Pop is simply pushing him like he did Parker until Green arrives at the place he should be at as a player. How Green responds mentally will determine the end result.

Also, Green is the type of player who is willing to take criticism. This is key, just like it's been with Parker, and why he keeps improving.

[ChumpDumper]

Green is inconsistent in his defensive role, and honestly isn't a finished product. His ceiling is more limited than Leonard's for sure, but it simply hasn't been reached yet. That's why you see the kind of treatment others described above. I'm sure that can be annoying to people who are used to (expecting?) the kind of consistency they got from Bruce and the like, but when Green is good, he's very good.

[Pasta Batman]

Green is inconsistent in his defensive role, and honestly isn't a finished product. His ceiling is more limited than Leonard's for sure, but it simply hasn't been reached yet. That's why you see the kind of treatment others described above. I'm sure that can be annoying to people who are used to (expecting?) the kind of consistency they got from Bruce and the like, but when Green is good, he's very good.

Even then, Bruce was a product on offense throughout his years. The shot was there a lot, but then in his later years he started to develop that dribble to a midranger and pull up. Bruce in his day got a lot of flak, I remember. It's just hindsight always makes everything look nicer.

[ChumpDumper]

Even then, Bruce was a product on offense throughout his years. The shot was there a lot, but then in his later years he started to develop that dribble to a midranger and pull up. Bruce in his day got a lot of flak, I remember. It's just hindsight always makes everything look nicer.Well Bruce was an anomaly in developing relatively or very late in his career. Pretty amazing looking back. I like to think it influenced guys like Parker to never quit improving as well.