9 Must-See Gun Control Statistics

[spursncowboys]

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/12/26022-9-must-see-gun-control-statistics/

http://www.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/states.png

“States that allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns enjoy a 60 percent decrease in multiple-victim public shootings and a 78 percent decrease in victims per attack.”


“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.” – John Lott, Jr. Co-author with Bill Landes of “More Guns, Less Crime.”

[DMC]

Funny, almost every state in the union has shall issue, but somehow libs think they are going to ban guns.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know when people started expecting people to carry guns in elementary schools.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know when people started expecting people to carry guns in elementary schools.
I say let the teachers carry if they want.

[ChumpDumper]

I say let the teachers carry if they want.When did you start thinking it would be a good idea to do so in an elementary school?

[Leetonidas]

I don't see what the big deal with letting teachers with permits carry. If their gun is legally registered and they're a normal citizen, they're not going to shoot up a school. Besides, it's not like someone couldn't do it anyway if it was illegal. They're going to kill someone, you really think they care about the legality of guns? :lol

[coyotes_geek]

I say let the teachers carry if they want.

:tu

I like it. Now we just need to figure out a way to make sure that the lunatics only try to shoot up classrooms where the teachers have elected to arm themselves.

[101A]

It does seem somewhat perverse that in a country admittedly flush with guns, we put our most vulnerable in situations where a single gun is unopposed.

If we are going to have a society in which guns are prevalent; it seems logical that the law-abiding be allowed to carry them pretty much everywhere. The law-breakers do, after all.

The other options is to rid the country of guns. Either way, a more balanced field will result.

The WORST scenario is the one that exists today: Want to shoot up a school? Go ahead, the only one stopping you, is yourself.

[boutons_deux]

America is a sick society, fucked, and unfuckable, and its all for corporate profits.

[Latarian Milton]

liberals think a more enhanced control of guns is gonna make an impact on the real thugs, disuading them from possessing guns illegally because it's against the law when they don't scruple to shoot people's heads off using their guns. so shooting someone dead with a gun is less of a crime than possessing a gun illegally?

[DMC]

Teachers should not be carrying firearms. They would be required to lock them up because children are present.

Any gun free zones, especially schools, needs security. Teachers should not be expected to be police officers.

[vy65]

So a decrepit old 60 year old woman with bad eyesight should pack heat? She'll turn into John Rambo at the first sight of danger?

[cantthinkofanything]

Teachers should not be carrying firearms. They would be required to lock them up because children are present.

Any gun free zones, especially schools, needs security. Teachers should not be expected to be police officers.

x2. No way I want my kid at a school where the teachers are carrying.

[spursncowboys]

So a decrepit old 60 year old woman with bad eyesight should pack heat? She'll turn into John Rambo at the first sight of danger?
:lmao. http://www.accountingweb.com/files/siftmedia-accountingwebus/u125048/old_lady_with_a_gun.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

x2. No way I want my kid at a school where the teachers are carrying.

x3

If you want guns at school to protect the children then they need to be in the hands of people who's primary job description is to know how to use them.

[coyotes_geek]

So a decrepit old 60 year old woman with bad eyesight should pack heat? She'll turn into John Rambo at the first sight of danger?

Problem solved. Kids, meet your new kindergarden teacher, Mr. Norris!

http://byebyesuckas.com/images/chuck_norris_bday.jpg

Your kids may not come home knowing how to stay inside the lines when coloring, but your kids will come home.

[Latarian Milton]

Teachers should not be carrying firearms. They would be required to lock them up because children are present.

Any gun free zones, especially schools, needs security. Teachers should not be expected to be police officers.
teachers shouldn't be carrying guns but who else is gonna take the responsibility of protecting these kids? there're already two students being arrested by cops after sandy hook tragedy just because they carried guns only to gain some sense of safety in their young minds. there were safety guards at the gate in sandy hook but they turned a blind eye to the strange intruder, allowing the gunner to drive the car straight into the school yard unchecked. and you count on the cops to protect the unarmed innocent people? yes they will arrive but not before the gunner kills 26 innocent people and himself tbh

[coyotes_geek]

teachers shouldn't be carrying guns but who else is gonna take the responsibility of protecting these kids? there're already two students being arrested by cops after sandy hook tragedy just because they carried guns only to gain some sense of safety in their young minds. there were safety guards at the gate in sandy hook but they turned a blind eye to the strange intruder, allowing the gunner to drive the car straight into the school yard unchecked. and you count on the cops to protect the unarmed innocent people? yes they will arrive but not before the gunner kills 26 innocent people and himself tbh

So is this a reluctant "yes" to arming teachers?

[DMC]

teachers shouldn't be carrying guns but who else is gonna take the responsibility of protecting these kids? there're already two students being arrested by cops after sandy hook tragedy just because they carried guns only to gain some sense of safety in their young minds. there were safety guards at the gate in sandy hook but they turned a blind eye to the strange intruder, allowing the gunner to drive the car straight into the school yard unchecked. and you count on the cops to protect the unarmed innocent people? yes they will arrive but not before the gunner kills 26 innocent people and himself tbh

Sorry, a "safety guard" isn't the same as having armed security.

Classroom doors should be locked, requiring the person inside to open the door. Admin can have override for that feature (key cards).

You cannot just walk into the company that makes video games but you can walk into a school with loaded weapons.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I agree with DMC here. The solution is greater school security. Not arming teachers, which is totally ridiculous for so many reasons. How do we know the teachers would even be OK with having the responsibility of carrying a gun?

[cantthinkofanything]

Sorry, a "safety guard" isn't the same as having armed security.

Classroom doors should be locked, requiring the person inside to open the door. Admin can have override for that feature (key cards).

You cannot just walk into the company that makes video games but you can walk into a school with loaded weapons.

I'd like to also see that the entry doors to the school are something other than glass with a push bar behind them. Not sure if they are already doing this at some places but at my daughters school, locking the outside door wouldn't be much deterrent to someone with a gun. They could just shoot the glass and let themselves in.

But definitely locking all classroom doors would be a start.

I guess the next question would be if anything is done about outside windows.

Too bad things have gotten to this point but it is what it is.

[cantthinkofanything]

I agree with DMC here. The solution is greater school security. Not arming teachers, which is totally ridiculous for so many reasons. How do we know the teachers would even be OK with having the responsibility of carrying a gun?

not to mention hoping that these teachers don't leave their purse laying around or lose their gun somewhere.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

not to mention hoping that these teachers don't leave their purse laying around or lose their gun somewhere.
Yeah that too.

And regardless of how much teachers are drilled about gun safety, some of the dumbest, most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers. It would only be a matter of time before schools were on lock down 3 times a week because some dumbass teacher thinks her gun is missing after forgetting where she put it.

[boutons_deux]

"most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers"

you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

[cantthinkofanything]

Yeah that too.

And regardless of how much teachers are drilled about gun safety, some of the dumbest, most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers. It would only be a matter of time before schools were on lock down 3 times a week because some dumbass teacher thinks her gun is missing after forgetting where she put it.

no doubt. when I was in my early 20's, I had some friends that were teachers. we'd be drinking until 3 or 4 in the morning with them having to get up and teach the next day. there's no way they were even sober at times. one of them was so out of it that when she got to school, she realized that she had put hand soap all over her body instead of lotion.

[cantthinkofanything]

"most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers"

you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

and what do they pay you for your posts here?
I forget.

[boutons_deux]

and what do they pay you for your posts here?
I forget.

I get the same pay as you do, but I deliver brilliant posts.

[TeyshaBlue]

I get the same pay as you do, but I deliver brilliant posts.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003150277/258673045_4519_uh_no_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

no doubt. when I was in my early 20's, I had some friends that were teachers. we'd be drinking until 3 or 4 in the morning with them having to get up and teach the next day. there's no way they were even sober at times. one of them was so out of it that when she got to school, she realized that she had put hand soap all over her body instead of lotion.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

That's hilarious because this girl I know who graduated last May and now teaches at a middle school in Tucson near the university still parties like crazy on Thursday nights with those of us who haven't graduated and regularly drinks everyone else under the table. I have no idea how the fuck she gets up the next day and makes it to school on time, and people suggest arming people like her with a gun :lol.

It's sad, but the behavior of Cameron Diaz in Bad Teacher really isn't far off from how some public school teachers act.

[TeyshaBlue]

I agree with DMC here. The solution is greater school security. Not arming teachers, which is totally ridiculous for so many reasons. How do we know the teachers would even be OK with having the responsibility of carrying a gun?

This. The very notion of arming teachers just resonates weird with me.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yeah that too.

And regardless of how much teachers are drilled about gun safety, some of the dumbest, most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers. It would only be a matter of time before schools were on lock down 3 times a week because some dumbass teacher thinks her gun is missing after forgetting where she put it.

Breaking News: Ditzy people work everywhere. This is not really news.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Breaking News: Ditzy people work everywhere. This is not really news.

And I wouldn't wanna arm any of those people with guns as a method of security at work.

[TeyshaBlue]

Gots no probs with that. Unfortunately, we already arm a shit-load of ditzies already.

[George Gervin's Afro]

maybe we need to pay for armed security at each campus... of course that would cost money and some in this country are allergic to any spending increases on public schools...

[boutons_deux]

Tea Party Nation: Train Teachers in SWAT Teams to Fight HamasIn his initial response to the shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, Tea Party Nation president Judson Phillips emailed members an article about the massacre which sharply criticized teachers (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-attacks-teachers-over-ct-school-shooting) and urged government to cripple teachers’ unions and place guards like George Zimmerman at every school (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-attacks-teachers-over-ct-school-shooting). Today, Phillips emailed out a piece (http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blogs/isn-t-it-time-for-america-to-rethink-school-victim-disarmament) arguing that it should “be required that all teachers and other staff be armed and in trained in SWAT” because Americans should worry about “the bloodbath you may well see if Iranian and Hamas agents go en masse into the schools of this nation.”


The TPN article also attacked teachers as “abject pacifist cowards” and liberals for allegedly “dancing gleefully in the blood of victims” in order to help the government “enslave” Americans through forcible disarmament.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-train-teachers-swat-teams-fight-hamas

you tea baggers here got some REAL DITZY leaders, doncha? :lol

do you tea baggers really expect to get non-ditzy teachers in your for-profit charter schools by paying them even less than public schools?

[TeyshaBlue]

lol..rightwingwatch calling out TPN.

Irony, motherfucker! Do you speak it?


"do you tea baggers really expect to get non-ditzy teachers in your for-profit charter schools by paying them even less than public schools?" and to whom are you addressing this pile of straw to?

[cantthinkofanything]

maybe we need to pay for armed security at each campus... of course that would cost money and some in this country are allergic to any spending increases on public schools...

for starters, reduce the bloated salary of the top administrators

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

"do you tea baggers really expect to get non-ditzy teachers in your for-profit charter schools by paying them even less than public schools?" and to whom are you addressing this pile of straw to?

Maybe me since he decided to correct my spelling mistake (ditzy isn't really a word I put in writing very much), and he throws a fit whenever someone speaks negatively about public sector workers.

[spursncowboys]

And I wouldn't wanna arm any of those people with guns as a method of security at work.
Who would you want armed? Would you want to outlaw guns for everyone? Even in their home?

[George Gervin's Afro]

for starters, reduce the bloated salary of the top administrators

define bloated.. what is the most money a person can earn as a Top Administrator (whatever that is)?

[TeyshaBlue]

define bloated.. what is the most money a person can earn as a Top Administrator (whatever that is)?

Dude, you already know this. Ask yer wife....I'll bet she's got some HSO's about admin pay.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Who would you want armed? Would you want to outlaw guns for everyone? Even in their home?

I would wanna arm actual security personnel if additional security was required. There are other things too that would increase security, like limiting the amount of places you can enter/exit during school hours. At my high school the gates were locked during school hours and there was only one way in/out, which was monitored by a security guard. In this day and age, I don't think schools can have open campus policies anymore.

I'm not sure where I said anything about outlawing guns for people though. Pretty sure I was talking about workplace/school security. Nothing in my post was about general gun control laws.

[cantthinkofanything]

define bloated.. what is the most money a person can earn as a Top Administrator (whatever that is)?

I don't know what the answer is in terms of a definite #. I'll admit I haven't done any deep research into the matter but an administrator's salary that's 10x more than a teacher seems bloated.

[scott]

Have we asked any teachers if they'd like to carry/have access to a gun?

Or will we force teachers to carry them?

[spursncowboys]

I would wanna arm actual security personnel if additional security was required. There are other things too that would increase security, like limiting the amount of places you can enter/exit during school hours. At my high school the gates were locked during school hours and there was only one way in/out, which was monitored by a security guard. In this day and age, I don't think schools can have open campus policies anymore.

I'm not sure where I said anything about outlawing guns for people though. Pretty sure I was talking about workplace/school security. Nothing in my post was about general gun control laws.

Yeah every school I've been to with kids or from when I was in school had it to where you couldn't open doors from the outside. When I went to Madison with gangs and drug problem they had, they always had someone watching the parking lot to see people coming in. In this instance I would assume that the son went to his mother's school before so knew the weaknesses of their security.

[Th'Pusher]

Have we asked any teachers if they'd like to carry/have access to a gun?

Or will we force teachers to carry them?
Bingo. And WRT armed security, GGA hit the nail on the head. Gov good hair just cut $4B from the education budget.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah every school I've been to with kids or from when I was in school had it to where you couldn't open doors from the outside. When I went to Madison with gangs and drug problem they had, they always had someone watching the parking lot to see people coming in. In this instance I would assume that the son went to his mother's school before so knew the weaknesses of their security.
Same with my high school, we had a guy monitoring the parking lot and other than being really hispanic we weren't by any stretch of the imagination a gang school. Of course now that I'm remembering, that guy was a few lost brain cells away from being a vegetable and wouldn't really be able to do much to prevent a nutcase with a gun from entering the parking lot.

[coyotes_geek]

We're not going to arm all the teachers because it's stupid and we're not going to try and turn every school into a fortress because it's too expensive. So, the things we can do are going to be pretty simple and small scale. Put a cop on every campus. Give exterior classrooms special emergency exit windows that can be easily removed from the inside giving everyone in that room an escape route. Door locks for every classroom. Maybe even turn some interior classrooms or bathrooms into safe rooms with bulletproof doors. Have an emergency plan to get everyone out of the building entirely or into a safe room and practice that plan. Stuff like that. Realistically all you can do is make it a little harder for someone on the outside to get in, make it a little easier for someone on the inside to get out and see what kind of obstacles you could put in a shooter's way to slow him down, minimizing the damage he can do before the police get there en-mass.

[101A]

"most ditsy people I've ever met were teachers"

you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

Starting teacher in our district (any grade) = $58,000; Average Salary = $81,000

Not peanuts. Still plenty of ditzes.

[101A]

NM

[101A]

I don't know what the answer is in terms of a definite #. I'll admit I haven't done any deep research into the matter but an administrator's salary that's 10x more than a teacher seems bloated.

Our District Superintendent makes $125,000. Top teachers are at $103,000

[Jacob1983]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lba9ctuJL81qbcf5ho1_500.jpg

[scott]

Our District Superintendent makes $125,000. Top teachers are at $103,000

Where do you live? That's some choice pay for teachers.

[Th'Pusher]

Our District Superintendent makes $125,000. Top teachers are at $103,000

That's actually a lot of responsibility for a $125k. Just think, I could make 3x that and still not fall into the tax bracket to be affected by the tax deal speaker Boehner walked away from earlier this week :lol

[cantthinkofanything]

That's actually a lot of responsibility for a $125k. Just think, I could make 3x that and still not fall into the tax bracket to be affected by the tax deal speaker Boehner walked away from earlier this week :lol

Here's Tarrant County...

http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-superintendent-salaries-2010/?County=Tarrant&cbResetParam=1

[Th'Pusher]

Here's Tarrant County...

http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-superintendent-salaries-2010/?County=Tarrant&cbResetParam=1

Meh. Those numbers aren't eye-popping. Again, they are ultimately responsible for a lot of students. The average pay of a superintendent wouldn't pay for an armed guard at more than one school.

[ErnestLynch]

How to win any gun control debate:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/publicfiles/GunFacts_BFA.pdf

[ErnestLynch]

Why not just give all teachers stun guns and pepper spray. They have those stun guns that shoot the things like on 'The Hangover'. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a start.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Fact: Only 1% of police officers murdered were killed using “assault weapons.” They were twice as likely to be killed with their own handgun. :lol

[cantthinkofanything]

Meh. Those numbers aren't eye-popping. Again, they are ultimately responsible for a lot of students. The average pay of a superintendent wouldn't pay for an armed guard at more than one school.

this was in response to someone mentioning that where they lived, the superintendent to teacher salary wasn't too disproportionate. which isn't the case in other areas.
my initial post was to look at all administration salaries, not just the superintendent. my guess is that there is a lot of waste and bloat at the administrative level.

[boutons_deux]

Over the last 20 years, approximately 260,000 Americans have been murdered by firearms. The firearm homicide rate in the United States is 3.7 for every 100,000 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm) people.


The average firearm homicide rate for Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Japan, New Zealand and Spain is .22 per 100,000 people.

Thus, the firearm homicide rate in the United States is approximately 17 times higher than in our peer nations.

If the United States had had the same gun-related homicide rate as these other nations over the past twenty years, almost a quarter of a million Americans who were murdered by guns since 1992 might well have been spared that fate.

Economists estimate (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/epa-value-of-life-changes-_n_812105.html) that the average life is "worth" appoximately $7 million. This means that America's firearm policy over the past twenty years has cost the nation approximately $1.75 trillion in lost lives. But who's counting?

In 2010, the NRA and its affiliates spent (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/gun-lobby-nra_n_2317885.html) approximately $275 million to prevent the regulation of firearms. The NRA's opponents -- organizations like the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- spent a combined total of less than $8 million in support of the regulation of firearms.


No wonder public opinion has shifted and no wonder politicians of all stripes are terrified to do the right thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/gun-crazy_b_2334881.html?utm_hp_ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=122012&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily%20Brief

$275M in one year to block firearm regulations? More proof that you're all suckered by the guns-and-ammo industry into bleating sheeple-lessly about 2nd Amendment and self-defense.

[cantthinkofanything]

Over the last 20 years, approximately 260,000 Americans have been murdered by firearms. The firearm homicide rate in the United States is 3.7 for every 100,000 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm) people.


The average firearm homicide rate for Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Japan, New Zealand and Spain is .22 per 100,000 people.

Thus, the firearm homicide rate in the United States is approximately 17 times higher than in our peer nations.

If the United States had had the same gun-related homicide rate as these other nations over the past twenty years, almost a quarter of a million Americans who were murdered by guns since 1992 might well have been spared that fate.

Economists estimate (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/epa-value-of-life-changes-_n_812105.html) that the average life is "worth" appoximately $7 million. This means that America's firearm policy over the past twenty years has cost the nation approximately $1.75 trillion in lost lives. But who's counting?

In 2010, the NRA and its affiliates spent (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/gun-lobby-nra_n_2317885.html) approximately $275 million to prevent the regulation of firearms. The NRA's opponents -- organizations like the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- spent a combined total of less than $8 million in support of the regulation of firearms.


No wonder public opinion has shifted and no wonder politicians of all stripes are terrified to do the right thing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffrey-r-stone/gun-crazy_b_2334881.html?utm_hp_ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=122012&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily%20Brief

$275M in one year to block firearm regulations? More proof that you're all suckered by the guns-and-ammo industry into bleating sheeple-lessly about 2nd Amendment and self-defense.

what's the rate of violent crimes avoided in the U.S.?

[TheSanityAnnex]

what's the rate of violent crimes avoided in the U.S.?not sure of the rate but guns are said to be used 2,000,000 times a year for self defense.

[boutons_deux]

"2,000,000 times a year for self defense"

link?

and not link from the NRA or gun industry.

[TeyshaBlue]

because thinkprogress and alternet are so much more credible.

[TheSanityAnnex]

"2,000,000 times a year for self defense"

link?

and not link from the NRA or gun industry.dont have one. Got it from the article I posted that you probably haven't bothered to read.

[boutons_deux]

because thinkprogress and alternet are so much more credible.

of course they are more credible. it's so easy being credible attacking the sociopathy and lies of the the Repugs and VRWC.

[TeyshaBlue]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[cantthinkofanything]

not sure of the rate but guns are said to be used 2,000,000 times a year for self defense.

that's a start but the number of crimes that weren't even attempted has to be several multiples of that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

because thinkprogress and alternet are so much more credible.

No, but the requirement for the link was not the uber leftist shit that boutox comes up with.

I read the blog and they provide no link either.

[rascal]

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/12/26022-9-must-see-gun-control-statistics/

http://www.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/states.png









Lies
How about the shootings in Texas at the Luby' s in Killean and at UT at Austin( the Tower) in the 1960s.

[Th'Pusher]

No, but the requirement for the link was not the uber leftist shit that boutox comes up with.

I read the blog and they provide no link either.
The 2m number seems dubious at best. May have come from this criminologist:

Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.


Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/gun-366250-guns-ice.html

[TeyshaBlue]

Lies
How about the shootings in Texas at the Luby' s in Killean and at UT at Austin( the Tower) in the 1960s.

what was the carry status back then?

[TeyshaBlue]

No, but the requirement for the link was not the uber leftist shit that boutox comes up with.

I read the blog and they provide no link either.

meh...I wouldn't give a bucket of warm spit for either source....which was kinda my point.

[boutons_deux]

Colorado, Oregon and Wisconsin allow guns on college campuses. Mississippi likewise allows guns on college campuses, as well as in secondary schools, polling places, churches, passenger terminals at airports, and bars.

Tennessee, Arizona, Georgia, Virginia and Ohio also allow guns in bars. You can shoot a gun in Missouri when you're drunk, and as long as it's considered to be in "self-defense," you're within your rights. In Vermont, you can sell a pistol to a 16-year old kid. Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, South Dakota, Utah, Arizona, Tennessee and Alaska have all passed laws saying that guns made in-state are not subject to federal regulations. The Florida "Stand Your
Ground" law has gotten a lot of attention after the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, but 24 other states besides Florida have enacted similar laws.

A violent felon in Minnesota can regain their gun ownership rights if they successfully petition the court about having "good cause."

In Ohio, a violent felon can retain their gun rights if they prove to a court that they have led a "law-abiding life."

You can get your guns back in Georgia and Nebraska even if you've committed manslaughter and armed robbery, and in Montana, your guns will be returned to you if you didn't use a gun when you committed your crime.

That seems to fly in the face of the old saw that says, "If you make guns criminal, only criminals will have guns."

Then again, all the worst bloodbaths of the last several years - including this most recent massacre in Newtown - were perpetrated by people who were not outlaws...until they pulled the trigger and laid their victims low. That 11-year old boy in Utah was not an outlaw until his parents put that pistol in his hands and sent him to school. He didn't make it to the end of recess.

Thomas Lane. One L. Goh. Jake England. Alvin Watts. Ian Stawicki. James Holmes. Wade Michael Page. Andrew Engeldinger. Jacob Tyler Roberts. Adam Lanza. These are America's most well-known mass killers (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337221/a-timeline-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-since-columbine/?mobile=nc) from the year 2012 alone. Seventy-two lives were snuffed out by their actions. Every single one of them used a gun. None of them were outlaws...until.

As of Wednesday afternoon, 180 more people have been killed by guns since the Newtown massacre.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13441-shooting-is-business-and-business-is-good

[cantthinkofanything]

Colorado, Oregon and Wisconsin allow guns on college campuses. Mississippi likewise allows guns on college campuses, as well as in secondary schools, polling places, churches, passenger terminals at airports, and Seventy-two lives were snuffed out by their actions. Every single one of them used a gun. None of them were outlaws...until.

As of Wednesday afternoon, 180 more people have been killed by guns since the Newtown massacre.




and 71,915 more people have not been targets of assault, murder, or rape because of the 2nd Amendment.

[boutons_deux]

"because of the 2nd Amendment."

stick the 2nd Amendment up your lying ass. the 300M+ guns in USA is a corporate profit center. the 2nd Amendment VRWC/NRA/corporate propaganda is a bullshit lie

[cantthinkofanything]

"because of the 2nd Amendment."

stick the 2nd Amendment up your lying ass. the 300M+ guns in USA is a corporate profit center. the 2nd Amendment VRWC/NRA/corporate propaganda is a bullshit lie



you should thank the 2nd Amendment for protecting the 1st Amendment that gives you the right to say that

[rascal]

you should thank the 2nd Amendment for protecting the 1st Amendment that gives you the right to say that

The 2nd amendment is a cop out for defense of loose gun laws. It is outdated. If you want to own guns, keep them on your property. If caught with assault weapons off your property you should be facing jail time. It should be enforced like they enforce drug laws.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

meh...I wouldn't give a bucket of warm spit for either source....which was kinda my point.

:lol so he posts truth-out.org as the immediate followup.

He's got to be trolling but I am afraid he is serious.

[Latarian Milton]

Sorry, a "safety guard" isn't the same as having armed security.

Classroom doors should be locked, requiring the person inside to open the door. Admin can have override for that feature (key cards).

You cannot just walk into the company that makes video games but you can walk into a school with loaded weapons.

you believe the door can stand still after a few brogue kicks by the intruder? motherfucker should've been stopped at the gate but it was obvious the gate men forfeited their duties and allowed the fucker in, and there's no way in hell a thin piece of wood is ever gonna stop a fully armed thug tbh

[Clipper Nation]

I get the same pay as you do, but I deliver brilliant posts.
:lmao

[Th'Pusher]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-burns-assault-weapons-ban-20121220,0,6774314.story

[Wild Cobra]

Teachers should not be carrying firearms. They would be required to lock them up because children are present.

Any gun free zones, especially schools, needs security. Teachers should not be expected to be police officers.
Any designated "gun free zone" is an invitation for such crimes. We are openly telling the criminals that nobody is capable of shooting back.

[boutons_deux]

"Any designated "gun free zone" is an invitation for such crimes."

WC and his ilk shilling hard for the firearm industry.

[DMC]

Any designated "gun free zone" is an invitation for such crimes. We are openly telling the criminals that nobody is capable of shooting back.

I didn't say no one should be armed. I said teachers are not police officers and should not have that responsibility. Parents already expect them to raise their kids, now people suggest they also serve as their security guards? No, that's a job for a trained officer, not a construction paper engineer.

[DMC]

"because of the 2nd Amendment."

stick the 2nd Amendment up your lying ass. the 300M+ guns in USA is a corporate profit center. the 2nd Amendment VRWC/NRA/corporate propaganda is a bullshit lie



Why is profit a problem, you socialist pig fucker?

[Wild Cobra]

I didn't say no one should be armed. I said teachers are not police officers and should not have that responsibility. Parents already expect them to raise their kids, now people suggest they also serve as their security guards? No, that's a job for a trained officer, not a construction paper engineer.
Teachers are there, on site, and we already trust out children's safty to them. Drivers education, chemistry, and other programs that are potentially dangerous. It doesn't cost any more money, and it should be a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

I am not advocating to "arm the teachers." I am advocating that any teacher who is trained and licensed be given the option to carry if he or she wants to. If they conceal carry outside of school, let them conceal carry at school as well.

[DMC]

Teachers are there, on site, and we already trust out children's safty to them. Drivers education, chemistry, and other programs that are potentially dangerous. It doesn't cost any more money, and it should be a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

You clearly miss the concept of a teaching degree.


I am not advocating to "arm the teachers." I am advocating that any teacher who is trained and licensed be given the option to carry if he or she wants to. If they conceal carry outside of school, let them conceal carry at school as well.
No. No concealed carry in schools. That's the quickest way to end concealed carry, period. Imagine a teacher puts the gun in a desk drawer, or leaves it in a stall after taking a shit and a kid gets it. Say bye bye to all concealed carry.

If there's going to be time spent on enacting new laws, make them effective across the board, not just some token freedom for less than 1% of the teachers to carry a gun. Just put an officer in the school. With the panic at schools and all juvenile posturing that goes on, a teacher would draw down on a student to stop a fight or prevent a perceived attack.

That's about as far as it needs to go. Arming teachers is stupid.

[Wild Cobra]

No. No concealed carry in schools. That's the quickest way to end concealed carry, period. Imagine a teacher puts the gun in a desk drawer, or leaves it in a stall after taking a shit and a kid gets it. Say bye bye to all concealed carry.

Really?

Do you do these things when you are carrying?

[DMC]

Really?

Do you do these things when you are carrying?

I don't work in a classroom, but you can bet I do not carry into universities and I wouldn't carry inside an elementary school. I am not a cop, I am not carrying to protect the world. I am carrying to protect myself. It's my discretion when I use lethal force, and I will not be required to carry in a situation where I could be brought to stand before a jury and explain why I did not use lethal force. Teachers are not cops, they are individuals like you or me. The act of concealed carry is not a public safety thing. It's concealed so that only you know you have it. CHL should not enter into this debate.

[Wild Cobra]

That's about as far as it needs to go. Arming teachers is stupid.
Now I would agree that some shouldn't be armed. Like Professor Terguson.

8bfgrj_62-Y

[DMC]

Ok whatever. You don't want armed response in an elementary school. You want deterrence. CHL would only be armed response.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't work in a classroom, but you can bet I do not carry into universities and I wouldn't carry inside an elementary school. I am not a cop, I am not carrying to protect the world. I am carrying to protect myself. It's my discretion when I use lethal force, and I will not be required to carry in a situation where I could be brought to stand before a jury and explain why I did not use lethal force. Teachers are not cops, they are individuals like you or me. The act of concealed carry is not a public safety thing. It's concealed so that only you know you have it. CHL should not enter into this debate.
But do you lay it down when you are using the restroom?

Do you place it on a table or something when you are shopping?

The point of conceal carry is to leave it in the holster. Why would a teacher take it out? Pretty foolish if you ask me.

[DMC]

But do you lay it down when you are using the restroom?

I do put it in my console when I drive. I put it in my desk drawer at home. CHL holders find carrying cumbersome. I've dropped my phone countless times while taking a leak, because it slides off my belt. I could see a gun hitting the floor. I've never done it, but that doesn't mean it's worth the risk just to have a guy armed who will likely not do anything anyhow (many people won't even draw unless they are themselves threatened).

Again, I don't work in a classroom where I have to stand at a board all day in front of kids.


Do you place it on a table or something when you are shopping?

Shopping and teaching are two different things. Why are you moving the goalposts? The CHL holder can carry anywhere it's legal, teacher or not, but not in his classroom.


The point of conceal carry is to leave it in the holster. Why would a teacher take it out? Pretty foolish if you ask me.

Where do you suppose the holster goes? It's concealed. Unless the teacher is wearing a coat it's going to be hard to hide and not everyone wants a crotch holster. If it's discernible, it's not concealed.

You're asking for more problems than you're solving. Teachers don't need to be armed. Which female teacher would have stopped the shooter? None. Why? He wasn't afraid to die, they were. He came in to kill, they have to decide to use lethal force. The assailant always has the upper hand in those situations. He doesn't have to question what's happening. There's always that moment of "is this real, is this a prank, a play, an act, what is this?" By then you're likely dead. A cop is trained to respond, not to question validity of the intrusion. He could at least delay the shooter long enough to get backup.

[Wild Cobra]

The point I was making is that a conceal carry holder will keep his weapon on his person. Not in a desk drawer or bathroom stall.

[DMC]

The point I was making is that a conceal carry holder will keep his weapon on his person. Not in a desk drawer or bathroom stall.

Until he takes it off. Do you carry concealed?

[Wild Cobra]

Until he takes it off. Do you carry concealed?
You going to take it off at work?

[Latarian Milton]

You clearly miss the concept of a teaching degree.

No. No concealed carry in schools. That's the quickest way to end concealed carry, period. Imagine a teacher puts the gun in a desk drawer, or leaves it in a stall after taking a shit and a kid gets it. Say bye bye to all concealed carry.

If there's going to be time spent on enacting new laws, make them effective across the board, not just some token freedom for less than 1% of the teachers to carry a gun. Just put an officer in the school. With the panic at schools and all juvenile posturing that goes on, a teacher would draw down on a student to stop a fight or prevent a perceived attack.

That's about as far as it needs to go. Arming teachers is stupid.
so your once again counting on the cops to save your grandchildren's asses? even an elementary school is too big for one or two police officials to protect imho, and it's not only the right for teachers but everyone else maybe with the students also included to take whatever measures needed in order to protect themselves.

arming the teachers might be stupid but no one said we need to make it a mandatory. its all your freedom to go out w/o carrying a gun with yourself, but you cannot deprive other people of their rights to decide whether the guns need to be carried or not

[DMC]

You going to take it off at work?

I don't take it in to work. Do you carry into your job?

[DMC]

so your once again counting on the cops to save your grandchildren's asses? even an elementary school is too big for one or two police officials to protect imho, and it's not only the right for teachers but everyone else maybe with the students also included to take whatever measures needed in order to protect themselves.

If there was an armed officer at that school in Conn, that shooter would not have stepped foot inside that school. Deterrence is the key. Once the shots start flying all bets are off, and if I was that worried about my child that I wanted his teacher to carry a gun, I would home school. Let's be real, is your child's public education worth more than his life? No.


arming the teachers might be stupid but no one said we need to make it a mandatory. its all your freedom to go out w/o carrying a gun with yourself, but you cannot deprive other people of their rights to decide whether the guns need to be carried or not
It's already deprived. It's illegal to carry a gun into a school. Children cannot protect themselves, they cannot carry a gun, so in effect you're relying on a teacher to save your kid's life as if the teacher is a cop in disguise. He's not. The cop at the end of the hall would deter the situation. How many shootings have occurred at airports? You cannot carry concealed there either. Cops carry though. You wouldn't get very far if you tried that shit in an airport or a police station.

Again, concealed carry is for personal protection, not for policing a school. Odd that, even in your home, your guns must be locked away with trigger guards so children cannot access them but you want them ready to fire on teachers in elementary schools. Don't get lost in the debate over guns and lose focus.

[DMC]

Also, why does it need to be legal for a teacher to carry concealed? If it's concealed, no one knows, and if you're going to risk your life to keep from getting a fine, you aren't that worried about it in the first place.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't take it in to work. Do you carry into your job?
No, I don't. However, I don;'t have a job where in a few places, it is optional.

The point I am making is it is not normal for removing your weapon when you are carrying it outside of your home, and placing it in any area that someone else can access. That would be as irresponsible as a chemistry teacher letting kids play with a larger variety of chemicals unsupervised.

[DMC]

No, I don't. However, I don;'t have a job where in a few places, it is optional.

The point I am making is it is not normal for removing your weapon when you are carrying it outside of your home, and placing it in any area that someone else can access. That would be as irresponsible as a chemistry teacher letting kids play with a larger variety of chemicals unsupervised.
Teachers can get CHLs. They can carry where you and I can carry. We also cannot carry into our work places. Are you less secure because of it? Do you feel like quitting your job?

Should theater workers be allowed to carry in the theater? There was a shooting there as well. When there's a shooting at a work place, should all places of employment allow concealed carry? Should the right to refuse guns in your establishment be removed?

Carrying on your person 15 hours a day isn't normal for CHL. You cannot bring "normal" into a debate about changing the norm.

[Wild Cobra]

Workplace rules for an employee carrying are dependent on the employer. The employer has the legal right to say "not at my facility." The schools can choose to allow teachers to carry who want to.

[DMC]

Workplace rules for an employee carrying are dependent on the employer. The employer has the legal right to say "not at my facility." The schools can choose to allow teachers to carry who want to.

No, the schools work for the state.

[LnGrrrR]

No, I don't. However, I don;'t have a job where in a few places, it is optional.

What? Your jobsite doesn't allow it? Are they hoping you'll all get massacred or something? Don't they pay attention to the news?

[DMC]

What? Your jobsite doesn't allow it? Are they hoping you'll all get massacred or something? Don't they pay attention to the news?

I lol'ed IRL

[Wild Cobra]

What? Your jobsite doesn't allow it? Are they hoping you'll all get massacred or something? Don't they pay attention to the news?
We aren't children. Don't you think that there should be better protection at our schools, in a manner that costs the least?

[LnGrrrR]

We aren't children. Don't you think that there should be better protection at our schools, in a manner that costs the least?

So you're saying you could defend yourselves adequately from an armed gunman, without having to resort to concealed carry? How does your jobsite do this?

[Wild Cobra]

So you're saying you could defend yourselves adequately from an armed gunman, without having to resort to concealed carry? How does your jobsite do this?
No.

I'm saying we don't have children where they can be mass murdered. This push for more federal aid is just using our children as hostages to more government spending. Are you OK with that?

[Latarian Milton]

cop won't stand at the school's gate all day to deter any potential intruders, and even if there stands a guy in uniforme armed with a pistol, who's gonna give a shit when the burglar has 3 pistols and maybe even a rifle fully loaded, and is determined to lose his own life at the scene?

[DMC]

cop won't stand at the school's gate all day to deter any potential intruders, and even if there stands a guy in uniforme armed with a pistol, who's gonna give a shit when the burglar has 3 pistols and maybe even a rifle fully loaded, and is determined to lose his own life at the scene?

The guy won't have unfettered access to children. He will have to shoot his way in.

Based on your logic, there's no reason to have armed police officers guarding anything, including the President.

[DMC]

No.

I'm saying we don't have children where they can be mass murdered. This push for more federal aid is just using our children as hostages to more government spending. Are you OK with that?

You're not addressing his point. Children won't be carrying. Why would a concealed carry be more effective on a teacher than on you or one of your coworkers? Why do you feel safe at work without a concealed carry weapon? Does your employer have security? Can someone just walk in to where you are?

[LnGrrrR]

No.

I'm saying we don't have children where they can be mass murdered. This push for more federal aid is just using our children as hostages to more government spending. Are you OK with that?

I don't think an armed guard in each school is necessarily the answer. My point overall was, do you feel safe in your workplace? If so, what precautions did your workplace take that we might be able to do in a school?

[Latarian Milton]

The guy won't have unfettered access to children. He will have to shoot his way in.

Based on your logic, there's no reason to have armed police officers guarding anything, including the President.
shoot his way in? not likely imho, cops ain't body checkin everyone and most of them would just turn a blind eye especially when they know the suspect might carry a gun in his car. pussies in uniform ain't gonna risk their own lives to protect those of folks, they just do this job to collect paychecks imho

we need cops to ensure the security on special events or to protect those VIP like the president but your fooling yourself to think they can protect everyone of us as well as they protect the president tbh

[DMC]

shoot his way in? not likely imho, cops ain't body checkin everyone and most of them would just turn a blind eye especially when they know the suspect might carry a gun in his car. pussies in uniform ain't gonna risk their own lives to protect those of folks, they just do this job to collect paychecks imho

we need cops to ensure the security on special events or to protect those VIP like the president but your fooling yourself to think they can protect everyone of us as well as they protect the president tbh

I would take my chances with the protection of a cop over the hope that criminals cannot get guns because it's against the law. Those are your options.

[ChumpDumper]

I would take my chances with the protection of a cop over the hope that criminals cannot get guns because it's against the law. Those are your options.Especially with today's mass killing of the week, I think we might try going with the option of revisiting mental health treatment practices in this country.

[Latarian Milton]

I would take my chances with the protection of a cop over the hope that criminals cannot get guns because it's against the law. Those are your options.
you put your life at risk if the criminals have guns while you don't, instead you count on the pussies in uniforms who only do their jobs as cops to collect paychecks. if i were such a big pussy that doesn't even know how to fire a fucking gun i'd rather hope batman would arrive at the scene to save my ass when im confronted by a band of thugs tbh

[DMC]

you put your life at risk if the criminals have guns while you don't, instead you count on the pussies in uniforms who only do their jobs as cops to collect paychecks. if i were such a big pussy that doesn't even know how to fire a fucking gun i'd rather hope batman would arrive at the scene to save my ass when im confronted by a band of thugs tbh

Teachers aren't going to be forced to carry guns. You only have a few rational choices, and armed teachers aren't one of them. Mental health issues do need to be revisited, but there's no reason to include options that aren't feasible.

Like always though, your responses indicate you are completely disconnected from the topic and just going for shock value of some off the wall statement. Stick to your original screen name, at lease some of your takes are decent there.

[DMC]

Especially with today's mass killing of the week, I think we might try going with the option of revisiting mental health treatment practices in this country.

Sure, you can go that route, but that does not secure schools just as learning why criminals commit crimes doesn't solve or prevent crimes.

[boutons_deux]

"mental health"

I read that only very tiny percentage of mentally ill people are homicidal, or commit murder.

NR marketing A is trying to scapegoat mentally ill people. NRA is the sicko organization.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, you can go that route, but that does not secure schools just as learning why criminals commit crimes doesn't solve or prevent crimes.Eh, even an armed officer isn't a guarantee. One also has to wonder where the police presence requirement people might want would end now with the firefighter and church shootings today.

[DMC]

Eh, even an armed officer isn't a guarantee. One also has to wonder where the police presence requirement people might want would end now with the firefighter and church shootings today.

Guarantee? There's never a guarantee. You can even be killed while under federal protection. Presidents have been shot and and killed while under extreme SS watch.

There are shootings every single day. There have been for centuries. The police protection is for schools.

This is part of what people get when they build the "end of the world" hype. It will settle down after the 1st. I saw a guy riding a motorized wheel chair today who had an "The End is Here".

What are you liberals going to do when shit hits the fan? Better hope your neighbor is a gun nut.

[ChumpDumper]

Guarantee? There's never a guarantee. You can even be killed while under federal protection. Presidents have been shot and and killed while under extreme SS watch.

There are shootings every single day. There have been for centuries. The police protection is for schools.

This is part of what people get when they build the "end of the world" hype. It will settle down after the 1st. I saw a guy riding a motorized wheel chair today who had an "The End is Here".

What are you liberals going to do when shit hits the fan? Better hope your neighbor is a gun nut.I've already invited mingus to the movies.

The date for the end of the world already passed. The last two shootings seemed to have come from mentally ill individuals who felt their own worlds were coming to an end. There's no real calendar for that.

[DMC]

I find it odd that you say "no guarantee" about the cop in school but if you don't own a firearm, you're safety is being left up to cops as that's your only hope if someone breaks into your home with intent to kill. How would you defend your home? I know I can defend mine, however I also trust the cops can do their jobs. You're in a pickle if you don't trust yourself or the cops to protect you, and I would bet you also don't believe in a god. Are you going to show the perp the penal code? Cite laws? Just curious.

[ChumpDumper]

I find it odd that you say "no guarantee" about the cop in school but if you don't own a firearm, you're safety is being left up to cops as that's your only hope if someone breaks into your home with intent to kill. How would you defend your home? I know I can defend mine, however I also trust the cops can do their jobs. You're in a pickle if you don't trust yourself or the cops to protect you, and I would bet you also don't believe in a god. Are you going to show the perp the penal code? Cite laws? Just curious.I'm curious, when did I announce I do not own a firearm?

At the same time, I'm not one to brag I'm so awesome I'd have been able to take out the Aurora shooter in the theater, for example. A gun in the house isn't a guarantee either.

And it's funny that people are acting like I'm against armed officers in schools.

[Nbadan]

I find it odd that you say "no guarantee" about the cop in school but if you don't own a firearm, you're safety is being left up to cops as that's your only hope if someone breaks into your home with intent to kill. How would you defend your home? I know I can defend mine, however I also trust the cops can do their jobs. You're in a pickle if you don't trust yourself or the cops to protect you, and I would bet you also don't believe in a god. Are you going to show the perp the penal code? Cite laws? Just curious.

That's some red state paranoid shit right there....and I've lived in houses with guns my whole life, but I never, ever had them to protect myself against some person who I felt paranoid about with any gun..that is what police are for should I need them...

[Nbadan]

A newspaper in New York has received a wave of criticism from its readers after publishing the names and addresses of all of the individuals with handgun or pistol permits in its coverage area.

Hundreds of residents in New York's Westchester and Rockland counties were surprised to find their names and addresses listed on a map posted by The Journal News on Sunday. Users can click any dot on the map to see which of their neighbors has a permit for a gun.

The map sparked more than 500 comments from readers within a day of its appearance on the website, many of them voicing outrage at the paper's decision to make the information public.

"This is CRAZY!! why in the world would you post every licensed gun owner information?? What do you hope to accomplish by doing this. This is the type of thing you do for sex offenders not law abiding gun owners. What next? should i hang a flag outside my house that says I own a gun? I am canceling my subscription with your paper today!!!" said commenter Curtis Maenza.

More at: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/newspaper-publishes-gun-owners-names-addresses-215214269--abc-news-topstories.html

[ChumpDumper]

That's pretty interesting. I'm not sure I would mind folks knowing I'm packing as much as what I am packing. I don't need members of this board bolstering their arsenals before making their inevitable move on me.

[boutons_deux]

More at: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/newspaper-publishes-gun-owners-names-addresses-215214269--abc-news-topstories.html

:lol It's PUBLIC INFORMATION.

As right-wingers love to say when (only) a REPUG administration is raping personal expectations of privacy:

If the you (gun owners) have done nothing wrong, what do you have to hide?

The gun owners should be thrilled that The Bad Guys now will stay away since they know the gun owners' homes are not gun-free zones! Sort of a free home-defense service.

No need to hang a macho "We don't call 911" sign on your house.

[Das Texan]

I'm not going to read this, but this is my question:


WHO THE FUCK WANTS GUNS BANNED ACROSS THE BOARD?

question


Yet, all you hear about are these libs who want to encroach upon your 2nd amendment rights. Serious question, but where does it say in the 2nd amendment that the government cannot place restrictions on the types of guns owned?

[boutons_deux]

Here's an article that trashes most of the pro-gun research that the gun industry and its ignorant "2nd Amendment" suckers love to quote


The answer is not more guns (http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/the_answer_is_not_more_guns/)

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/the_answer_is_not_more_guns/

[boutons_deux]

I'm not going to read this, but this is my question:


WHO THE FUCK WANTS GUNS BANNED ACROSS THE BOARD?

question


Yet, all you hear about are these libs who want to encroach upon your 2nd amendment rights. Serious question, but where does it say in the 2nd amendment that the government cannot place restrictions on the types of guns owned?

the "liberals wants guns banned" is just another LIE from the gun industry.

I don't want guns and ammo banned, I want them heavily, HEAVILY regulated and taxed, from the manufacture's door, all the way through the distribution channel, to the gun owner.

[DMC]

That's some red state paranoid shit right there....and I've lived in houses with guns my whole life, but I never, ever had them to protect myself against some person who I felt paranoid about with any gun..that is what police are for should I need them...
lol

Paranoid about a gun in your home at night with intent to kill you? lol... what's the average response time for a police officer in your town? Do you think you and the perp can play chess until the cop arrives?

[DMC]

I'm curious, when did I announce I do not own a firearm?

At the same time, I'm not one to brag I'm so awesome I'd have been able to take out the Aurora shooter in the theater, for example. A gun in the house isn't a guarantee either.

And it's funny that people are acting like I'm against armed officers in schools.
Maybe that should tell you something about yourself.

[DMC]

the "liberals wants guns banned" is just another LIE from the gun industry.

I don't want guns and ammo banned, I want them heavily, HEAVILY regulated and taxed, from the manufacture's door, all the way through the distribution channel, to the gun owner.

Says a person who doesn't know existing regulations. lol what a tool

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe that should tell you something about yourself.Yes, it tells me that other posters get really blinded by their personal feelings about me.

[DMC]

Yes, it tells me that other posters get really blinded by their personal feelings about me.

Sure, it's everyone else, not you.

[boutons_deux]

Says a person who doesn't know existing regulations. lol what a tool

40% of guns are sold w/o a b/g check

there's the "gunshow loophole".

and then there's online gun selling where you pay more for a gun if you pass a b/g check.

run regulations? a fucking joke.

convicted felon barred from ever owning gun gets a gun and shoots 4 fireman responding to a fire the felon set.

run regulations? a fucking joke.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, it's everyone else, not you.Not everyone else.

Right now it's just you.

[Agloco]

Sure, you can go that route, but that does not secure schools just as learning why criminals commit crimes doesn't solve or prevent crimes.


Eh, even an armed officer isn't a guarantee. One also has to wonder where the police presence requirement people might want would end now with the firefighter and church shootings today.

I find it interesting that most people present their opinions on the matter in an either/or fashion. IMO both of these things need to be addressed, and not simply in a cursory/perfunctory fashion.

[ChumpDumper]

I find it interesting that most people present their opinions on the matter in an either/or fashion. IMO both of these things need to be addressed, and not simply in a cursory/perfunctory fashion.Exactly. What is keeping anyone from doing both?

[DMC]

Exactly. What is keeping anyone from doing both?

Lack of funding, lack of interest, ADD American population, maintaining the flow of wealth from the middle class to the 1%.

[DMC]

Not everyone else.

Right now it's just you.

So by "people" you were referring to a singular person? You really expect that to sell?

[ChumpDumper]

So by "people" you were referring to a singular person? You really expect that to sell?Man, you really have problems understanding simple English.

RIGHT NOW it's just you.

Other times it is other people or just one person or no one. You may or may not be included in that group that does at other times. It's not always you, but currently it is.

Do you understand?

[DMC]

40% of guns are sold w/o a b/g check

That's because they are private citizen sales, and private citizens are not allowed to perform background checks on other private citizens. Something about right to privacy.


there's the "gunshow loophole".

You mean where private citizens sell to private citizens and aren't allowed to do background checks, something about right to privacy?


and then there's online gun selling where you pay more for a gun if you pass a b/g check.

Eh? You cannot buy a gun online from a dealer without a background check. Private citizens can still sell to private citizens online. It's something about right to privacy.


run regulations? a fucking joke.

I think you mean gun regulations, but just because you spouted off a few misleading statements doesn't mean you are versed on gun laws.


convicted felon barred from ever owning gun gets a gun and shoots 4 fireman responding to a fire the felon set.

Guy who beat his grandmother to death with a hammer gets paroled.

See also:

"Had the police officer not been there, more people would have been killed because he immediately engaged the shooter with a rifle," he said. "Essentially, it was a combat condition."

I wonder if he engaged him with a bolt action or a semi-auto "assault" weapon. It makes a difference, the latter being too evil for even the police to use.


run regulations? a fucking joke.
That's twice you've said "run regulations". I have no fucking idea what that even means.

[DMC]

Man, you really have problems understanding simple English.

RIGHT NOW it's just you.

Other times it is other people. You may or may not be included in that group at other times.

So you moved the goal posts.

[ChumpDumper]

So you moved the goal posts.No. I said who was doing it now -- which is you.

Other people have done it and people will do it, but right now it's just you.

[boutons_deux]

That's because they are private citizen sales, and private citizens are not allowed to perform background checks on other private citizens. Something about right to privacy.

You mean where private citizens sell to private citizens and aren't allowed to do background checks, something about right to privacy?

Eh? You cannot buy a gun online from a dealer without a background check. Private citizens can still sell to private citizens online. It's something about right to privacy.

I think you mean gun regulations, but just because you spouted off a few misleading statements doesn't mean you are versed on gun laws.

Guy who beat his grandmother to death with a hammer gets paroled.

See also:

"Had the police officer not been there, more people would have been killed because he immediately engaged the shooter with a rifle," he said. "Essentially, it was a combat condition."

I wonder if he engaged him with a bolt action or a semi-auto "assault" weapon. It makes a difference, the latter being too evil for even the police to use.

That's twice you've said "run regulations". I have no fucking idea what that even means.

Private sellers IS an example of the gunshow loophole.

The gun seller regulations must require that a seller be fully vetted, qualified, and licensed, insured, and re-registered/licensed annually.

DMC is a mass murderer apologist, with mass murders simply the collateral damage of the insane proliferation of guns to unvetted buyers.

[DMC]

No. I said who was doing it now -- which is you.

Other people have done it and people will do it, but right now it's just you.

You just live for the petty bickering about mundane shit.

Here's how it went:

You: people think wrong things about me

me: That should tell you something

you: it's not me it's them

me: sure, it's them not you

you: no, right now it's you

Your last "no" was moving the goal posts. We were discussing how people gang up on you and misunderstand you, and how that's a reflection of you. You then denied that by saying "no" followed by moving the goal posts with "right now it's you" (paraphrasing).

Now move on, goal post mover. You're misunderstood on here, probably a savant that walks the fine line between genius and retard.

[DMC]

Private sellers IS an example of the gunshow loophole.

No shit. That's not a loophole, idiot, that's a restriction on private sellers. If I sell my gun, I am not allowed to gain any background information on you. Were I allowed to do so, I wouldn't have a problem running a a background check on anyone buying a gun. It's just not within my rights, because I am not an FFL SOT dealer. Do you want everyone to be able to check anyone else out through the FBI database? Or do you want private owners to not be able to sell without going through a dealer? That would require registering existing firearms, a daunting task and a tipping of the eventual ban hat to the NRA folks. There is no record of who owns what firearm in most cases. There's no way to force registration. There's no way to police sales. Gun show sales are no different than putting an ad in the paper or selling to your hunting buddy. They are all not tracked. The fact a convicted felon can acquire a gun should be enough to illustrate to you that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.


The gun seller regulations must require that a seller be fully vetted, qualified, and licensed, insured, and re-registered/licensed annually.

How do you police that on unregistered firearms? Don't just give me a problem, suggest a working solution, one that makes sense.


DMC is a mass murderer apologist, with mass murders simply the collateral damage of the insane proliferation of guns to unvetted buyers.
You are one who would strip the public of it's constitutional rights to keep and bear arms just so you can feel safer in your piss puddle of ignorance.

BTW

Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows (California, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Oregon, New York, Illinois and Colorado).

[ChumpDumper]

You just live for the petty bickering about mundane shit.

Here's how it went:

You: people think wrong things about me

me: That should tell you something

you: it's not me it's them

me: sure, it's them not you

you: no, right now it's you

Your last "no" was moving the goal posts. We were discussing how people gang up on you and misunderstand you, and how that's a reflection of you. You then denied that by saying "no" followed by moving the goal posts with "right now it's you" (paraphrasing).

Now move on, goal post mover. You're misunderstood on here, probably a savant that walks the fine line between genius and retard.Wow, there's a whole bunch of straw in there, too.

You are perfectly illustrating what I described above tbh. Hilariously so. You are so completely worked up that you're just blathering about me now. I've seen it happen so many times before -- but yeah, you're the only one doing it here at this time. Not every individual does it all the time and not every person who has done it has done it all the time -- including you. It does say something about me. I make people angry sometimes.

Now move on, angry guy. You're angry with me here, you might not be later but you probably will be for the duration of these gun posts where you never even read the answers I explicitly gave to your questions that were not based on your silly straw arguments you developed out of anger.

[ChumpDumper]

Lack of funding, lack of interest, ADD American population, maintaining the flow of wealth from the middle class to the 1%.So nothing will really be done.

OK, that's what I predicted.

You should think about that the before you get so angry.

[Latarian Milton]

Teachers aren't going to be forced to carry guns. You only have a few rational choices, and armed teachers aren't one of them. Mental health issues do need to be revisited, but there's no reason to include options that aren't feasible.

Like always though, your responses indicate you are completely disconnected from the topic and just going for shock value of some off the wall statement. Stick to your original screen name, at lease some of your takes are decent there.
no, no one is gonna force them to carry guns. they have the right to make the decision for themselves whether to carry guns or not and the right should be held in the hands of their own rather than the government or the police, let alone an old lonely immigrant who doesn't know even how to pull the fucking trigger imho. and i have no idea from what angle you've seen deploying cops to schools being a more feasible option than allowing teachers to carry guns at school to protect the kids and themselves. one or two cops ain't gonna ensure the security of the entire campus and they ain't gonna deter shit when/if the criminal is poised to die with the victims under his gun fire.

mental disorders exist widely among the population and maybe your right they need more care and welfare but there's no way you could keep guns away from them imho, and im not gonna stick to the same username only to look like a pathetic lonely faggot with a total post count of 22,725 and counting.

[DMC]

So nothing will really be done.

OK, that's what I predicted.

You should think about that the before you get so angry.

You using the "you mad" card again. You've worn that fucker out in your 72K posts.

However, something will be done. There will be more guns sold in the three months following the shooting in Connecticut than sold in the previous year. Congrats liberals for increasing the number of guns across America. On gun and hunting websites all over the internet you see hi cap mags for AR-15s for sale, and people are buying them. They aren't being sold in fear of becoming illegal, but because they can now fetch a premium. AR-15 rifles are selling like hotcakes. The gun show in Austin was crazy, everyone buying all this hi cap shit and evil features for their AR-15 rifles.

Good work. Nothing drives gun sales like talk of new gun restrictions.

[DMC]

no, no one is gonna force them to carry guns. they have the right to make the decision for themselves whether to carry guns or not and the right should be held in the hands of their own rather than the government or the police, let alone an old lonely immigrant who doesn't know even how to pull the fucking trigger imho. and i have no idea from what angle you've seen deploying cops to schools being a more feasible option than allowing teachers to carry guns at school to protect the kids and themselves. one or two cops ain't gonna ensure the security of the entire campus and they ain't gonna deter shit when/if the criminal is poised to die with the victims under his gun fire.

mental disorders exist widely among the population and maybe your right they need more care and welfare but there's no way you could keep guns away from them imho, and im not gonna stick to the same username only to look like a pathetic lonely faggot with a total post count of 22,725 and counting.
If you don't know if a teacher is carrying, you don't know if you have any recourse. School systems will want recourse, to be able to say they have a system in place to mitigate a situation quickly should one develop, or to deter the act in the first place. They cannot make such a claim about armed teachers, parents will go nuts.

Do you have any common sense?

You have to have a solution that works for all parties. CHL is a personal defense choice, it has nothing to do with protecting school children.

[Latarian Milton]

lol

Paranoid about a gun in your home at night with intent to kill you? lol... what's the average response time for a police officer in your town? Do you think you and the perp can play chess until the cop arrives?
so why do you count on cops to protect schools? cops ain't gonna get there in time to exchange fire with the gunner cuz it would put their own lives in danger even if their office is within 100 yards of the crime scene, it often takes them quite a few minutes to get their revolves loaded and shoes tied, and they will make sure the criminal has run out of ammo and has already killed himself with the last bullet before they actually arrive at the scene

[ChumpDumper]

You using the "you mad" card again. You've worn that fucker out in your 72K posts.It's not like no one else can get mad.

And post count smack is a good sign.


However, something will be done. There will be more guns sold in the three months following the shooting in Connecticut than sold in the previous year. Congrats liberals for increasing the number of guns across America. On gun and hunting websites all over the internet you see hi cap mags for AR-15s for sale, and people are buying them. They aren't being sold in fear of becoming illegal, but because they can now fetch a premium. AR-15 rifles are selling like hotcakes. The gun show in Austin was crazy, everyone buying all this hi cap shit and evil features for their AR-15 rifles.Of course. Business for my gun selling friends has been very good.


Good work. Nothing drives gun sales like talk of new gun restrictions.So, what gun restrictions have I advocated here?

List them.

[Latarian Milton]

If you don't know if a teacher is carrying, you don't know if you have any recourse. School systems will want recourse, to be able to say they have a system in place to mitigate a situation quickly should one develop, or to deter the act in the first place. They cannot make such a claim about armed teachers, parents will go nuts.

Do you have any common sense?

You have to have a solution that works for all parties. CHL is a personal defense choice, it has nothing to do with protecting school children.
isn't it school's and teachers' duty to ensure the security of the kids while they're at school? you know you can't count on cops to protect your own properties so you have some guns at home, and the schools also need guns for the same reason.

it'd only increase the security level when you have more responsible people carrying guns imho, and its not like teachers will use their guns to threaten the kids when their size and strength are enough to hold the kids honest.

[DMC]

so why do you count on cops to protect schools? cops ain't gonna get there in time to exchange fire with the gunner cuz it would put their own lives in danger even if their office is within 100 yards of the crime scene, it often takes them quite a few minutes to get their revolves loaded and shoes tied, and they will make sure the criminal has run out of ammo and has already killed himself with the last bullet before they actually arrive at the scene

Try harder

[DMC]

It's not like no one else can get mad.

And post count smack is a good sign.

Of course. Business for my gun selling friends has been very good.

So, what gun restrictions have I advocated here?

List them.

I've stated the facts that are undeniable. Disagreement doesn't change facts.

[ChumpDumper]

I've stated the facts that are undeniable. Disagreement doesn't change facts.


So, what gun restrictions have I advocated here?

List them.Go ahead.

State those facts.

Or is the internets tough gun guy afraid?

Can't shoot your way out of this one.

[Agloco]

Exactly. What is keeping anyone from doing both?

<shrug>

DMC hit some nails on the head though.

[PublicOption]

i HAVE A FACT....ONE OF THOSE KIDS WERE SHOT 11 TIMES. fuck all YOU FUCKERS.

I was a tanker in the army. if the govt called me and said you have to man a tank to take semi-autos away from people I would do it. FUCK YOUR "MILITIA"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbxmfQcXA_U

[LnGrrrR]

isn't it school's and teachers' duty to ensure the security of the kids while they're at school? you know you can't count on cops to protect your own properties so you have some guns at home, and the schools also need guns for the same reason.

it'd only increase the security level when you have more responsible people carrying guns imho, and its not like teachers will use their guns to threaten the kids when their size and strength are enough to hold the kids honest.

I'm pretty sure it's a teachers job to... you know, teach.

Also, everyone's a "responsible" gun owner until they do something irresponsible with it.