Prime J-Kidd vs Prime Nash

[whitemamba]

Who do you take?

[irishock]

Prime Kidd, hands down. Give him another superstar and you win multiple titles.

[Findog]

Kidd. A better question is Grandpa Kidd or Grandpa Nash? Who do you take right now?

[Brunodf]

Kidd

[Clipper Nation]

Prime wife beater in a landslide over prime child support ducker :lol

[LkrFan]

Prime wife beater in a landslide over prime child support ducker :lol

http://timkardashian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/jason-kidd.jpg

:lol

[LkrFan]

http://www.phx411.com/wordpress/images/2007/january/jason-kidd-divorce3.gif

:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Prime Kidd, hands down. Give him another superstar and you win multiple titles.

Nash at his best was a thing of beauty....the measuring stick for me was could they beat Kobe in his prime...and the answer to that is Nash sort of did but Kidd got roasted...So I gotta go with Nash...here's is what I remember of a prime Kidd...:lol all day ere day:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3821xGSB-g

[irishock]

Nash at his best was a thing of beauty....the measuring stick for me was could they beat Kobe in his prime...and the answer to that is Nash sort of did but Kidd got roasted...So I gotta go with Nash...here's is what I remember of a prime Kidd...:lol all day ere day:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3821xGSB-g


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEoEoUg0qUY

[Koolaid_Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEoEoUg0qUY

Key word is Prime? Kobe losing to the Mavs was WAY WAY past his prime....plus it was Dirt's team not Kidd's ; try again son

[irishock]

New Jersey starting lineup in 2002:

Kidd, Kittles, Van Horn, RJ, Jason Collins

[irishock]

BTW beating the Kobe Lakers in 2006 and 2007 really isn't much of an accomplishment :lol

[Docsports]

I think you have to take Kidd because of the superstar argument. At least Nash had a shot with some decent pieces around him.

[Koolaid_Man]

BTW beating the Kobe Lakers in 2006 and 2007 really isn't much of an accomplishment :lol

So you saying that Kobe didn't have help those years? just checking Spur fan :downspin:

[Koolaid_Man]

New Jersey starting lineup in 2002:

Kidd, Kittles, Van Horn, RJ, Jason Collins

Forgot about Kenyon?

[irishock]

- Kenyon is nothing more than a decent role player who got paid thanks to Kidd making him look legit.
- Kidd lost to Kobe when Kobe had Shaq.
- Nash beat Kobe when Kobe had Kwame

[Koolaid_Man]

Who do you take?

even though I respect Kidd...I take Nash and here's why...

Nash has played his entire career in the Western Conference..and has proven and earned his mettle...He didn't get to take a season or two off by playing in the East...he's had it very hard his whole career dealing with the Lakers and Spurs dynasties every year. Whereas Kidd made it to the finals only after playing in the Leastern Conference where you could literally be 25 games under .500 and still be 1st seed in the East...:lol that type of shit is just flat out wrong...because of this I have to lean Nash even though it's close

[Koolaid_Man]

- Kenyon is nothing more than a decent role player who got paid thanks to Kidd making him look legit.
- Kidd lost to Kobe when Kobe had Shaq.
- Nash beat Kobe when Kobe had Kwame


K-Mart was fucking bad ass back then..you don't know basketball

[irishock]

And why did his numbers drop every year after signing with Denver?

Right... JKidd made the guy. KMart was nothing more than a role player on a contender, Kidd made him look like a legit #2 option.

[DAF86]

The first reaction to me was "Kidd", a better two way, all-around player but then I remember that people used to called him _ason Kidd and than Nash is arguably the greatest shooter of all-time and I start having second thoughts.

[irishock]

I'd take a great passer, a great rebounder and a great defender over a great passer and shooter any day.

[Koolaid_Man]

And why did his numbers drop every year after signing with Denver?

Right... JKidd made the guy. KMart was nothing more than a role player on a contender, Kidd made him look like a legit #2 option.

poor coaching, injuries, age, and playing with AI and Melo....that's it and that's all

[Jodelo]

Kidd, by far!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The first reaction to me was "Kidd", a better two way, all-around player but then I remember that people used to called him _ason Kidd and than Nash is arguably the greatest shooter of all-time and I start having second thoughts.

Pretty much this.

Jason Kidd easily had a better career than Nash because his prime lasted much longer. The only reason it's even a conversation between these two is because of how good Nash was in his prime from 2005-2007. Nash's scoring ability during that time and ability to completely takeover a game offensively is why I'd give the slight edge to prime Nash over prime Kidd. It's much easier to win with a PG who's a liability on defense than it is to win with a PG who defenses don't have to respect as a shooter, which defenses didn't do in Kidd's prime.

[baseline bum]

K-Mart was fucking bad ass back then..you don't know basketball

LOL such a badass he goes 3-23 in the most important game of his life while the guy he's guarding puts up 21, 20, 10, and 8.

[irishock]

LOL such a badass he goes 3-23 in the most important game of his life while the guy he's guarding puts up 21, 20, 10, and 8.

this

[Clipper Nation]

LOL such a badass he goes 3-23 in the most important game of his life while the guy he's guarding puts up 21, 20, 10, and 8.
Since Kool is a Kobe stan, he probably thinks 3-23 is a great shooting performance :lol

[irishock]

:lmao

[Dallas]

Both players served the Mavs with class and high-quality play. I would go with Jason Kidd because of his superior basketball IQ.

[Dirk Oneanddoneski]

Steve Nash 0 finals while playing on staaaaaaaaacked teams

Kidd 2 finals while playing on unstaaaaaacked teams 1 ring on a staaaaaaaaacked team

Kidd > Nash

[Malik Hairston]

Prime Kidd is one of the most overrated players in NBA history, tbh..

While it's a nice luxury to have a PG that rebounds and defends at a high level, those are traits that are more important inside, and even on the wing..

A poor defensive PG can be masked on a championship team(many examples), but a guard that cannot shoot is a massive liability, especially when he's a top player on the team(Rondo, as a recent example, exploited vs. LA in 2010 and benched for Eddie House in 2008)..

Jason Kidd post-Nets is one of the best role players I've ever seen, but prime Kidd could easily be exploited as a top option..

[Jordanobili2320]

Key word is Prime? Kobe losing to the Mavs was WAY WAY past his prime....plus it was Dirt's team not Kidd's ; try again son

a bit defensive are we?

[Jordanobili2320]

Prime Kidd is one of the most overrated players in NBA history, tbh..

While it's a nice luxury to have a PG that rebounds and defends at a high level, those are traits that are more important inside, and even on the wing..

A poor defensive PG can be masked on a championship team(many examples), but a guard that cannot shoot is a massive liability, especially when he's a top player on the team(Rondo, as a recent example, exploited vs. LA in 2010 and benched for Eddie House in 2008)..

Jason Kidd post-Nets is one of the best role players I've ever seen, but prime Kidd could easily be exploited as a top option..

What are you talking about? 2 finals appearances in his prime is being easily exploited in your prime? What are you on? Also on a side note, Rondo was the Celtics best and most valuable player in their 2010 run in fact most agree that is where he made a name for himself as an elite PG. so, why you disrespecting people?

[Latarian Milton]

nash's offensive talents have been overrated too imho. dude only functions well in run-and-gun systems while his impact is rather limited in half-court offense, let alone his poor defense that offers the opposing team an obvious weaklink to exploit. kidd might not be a good shooter in his early years but it's not like magic was anywhere better than him in that regard, dude has the 2nd most career total triple doubles in NBA history which speaks for itself imho

[TDMVPDPOY]

prime kidd = statpadder looking for the triple double, this guy has alot of triples, but how many of them are in winning games...

as for nash..lol pad stats in Runnin gun system even in scrub minutes...

[Koolaid_Man]

Career numbers: As soon as Nash gets his title the debate will be final...like I said Nash had to play against the Laker and Spur dynasties it's unfair to compare his competition to Kidds...

Jason Kidd - 12.9 ppg, 40 % fg, 9 assists, 6 rbs, 2 steals ppg, 78% free throws ; 35% career three point shooter
Steve Nash - 14.4ppg, 50% fg, 9 assists, 3 rbs, 1 steal ppg, 90% free throws, 42 % career three point shooter

[Jodelo]

Kidd could dominate a game without scoring!

[Koolaid_Man]

Kidd could dominate a game without scoring!

he could also dominate his son's plate full of french fries...:lol here's the play by play of how it allegedly went down:



Wife cooks up some french fries for dinner
Kidd eats his and then steals one off his son's plate
His wife yells at him for stealing the fry
He's says bitch you don't work I'm the one paying for this shit anyway
He then throws a fry at her and punches her in the face
He then leaves the house goes to a club and grabs some strippers pussy --> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/model-claims-jason-kidd-molested-club-article-1.229675
He goes back home and realizes his wife will file for divorce
He then claims his wife abused him ---> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/jason-kidd-wife-abused-me
He shows up to practice listening to a punk rock heavy metal band called white snake :lol


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/What-Is-Jason-Kidd-Thinking.jpg


http://www.truthaboutit.net/2007/12/so-what-is-jason-kidd-thinking.html

[Killakobe81]

The first reaction to me was "Kidd", a better two way, all-around player but then I remember that people used to called him _ason Kidd and than Nash is arguably the greatest shooter of all-time and I start having second thoughts.

This but its close. If Kidd had the jumper he had today in his prime it would not be ...

[Killakobe81]

nash's offensive talents have been overrated too imho. dude only functions well in run-and-gun systems while his impact is rather limited in half-court offense, let alone his poor defense that offers the opposing team an obvious weaklink to exploit. kidd might not be a good shooter in his early years but it's not like magic was anywhere better than him in that regard, dude has the 2nd most career total triple doubles in NBA history which speaks for itself imho

Magic became a good shooter at the tail end of his prime ...neither Pg is in the same category. As good and great as they are Magic is in a whole separate class.

[stretch]

Kidd could dominate a game without scoring!

So could Nash.

[irishock]

So could Nash.

Offensively only.

[stretch]

Magic became a good shooter at the tail end of his prime ...neither Pg is in the same category. As good and great as they are Magic is in a whole separate class.

How so?

I wouldn't want a championship team built around either player, however I think you can build a team around Magic easier. But if you have a superstar scorer already on the team (which you should), I would rather have Nash run point, heavily because of his ability to spot up and shoot.

[stretch]

Offensively only.

Defense from a PG is probably the least necessary thing on a team. It is by far the easiest position to mask defensively with good team defense. His offensive advantages over Kidd outweighs Kidd's defensive advantages over Nash.

If your PG is your best defender, then your team has some serious defensive issues. A PG should never be a teams best defender.

[Killakobe81]

How so?

I wouldn't want a championship team built around either player, however I think you can build a team around Magic easier. But if you have a superstar scorer already on the team (which you should), I would rather have Nash run point, heavily because of his ability to spot up and shoot.

Nash is an amazing shooter but Magic has an aura that few can match. Magic won a state NCAA and NBA championship within a 4 year span. Sure he had good team-mates especially in pros but none of those teams cores wo. Before he arrived. Dude is the ultimate winner and he made his teams even the dream team better ...only guys I take over him are Jordan, Kareem, and maybe 2000 Version of Shaq and MVP version of Hakeem and the last two I at least think about before I do. You can build around magic he took a young Vlade and old Worthy coached by Dunleavy to the Finals ...beating a title contending Blazers squad. Neither Kidd or Nash has a win like that on their resume in their prime.

[Juggity]

LOL such a badass he goes 3-23 in the most important game of his life while the guy he's guarding puts up 21, 20, 10, and 8.

:lmao Kool walked right into that buzzsaw

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What are you talking about? 2 finals appearances in his prime is being easily exploited in your prime? What are you on? Also on a side note, Rondo was the Celtics best and most valuable player in their 2010 run in fact most agree that is where he made a name for himself as an elite PG. so, why you disrespecting people?
He made the finals because the East was horrid those two years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Prime Kidd is one of the most overrated players in NBA history, tbh..

While it's a nice luxury to have a PG that rebounds and defends at a high level, those are traits that are more important inside, and even on the wing..

A poor defensive PG can be masked on a championship team(many examples), but a guard that cannot shoot is a massive liability, especially when he's a top player on the team(Rondo, as a recent example, exploited vs. LA in 2010 and benched for Eddie House in 2008)..

Jason Kidd post-Nets is one of the best role players I've ever seen, but prime Kidd could easily be exploited as a top option..
This tbh. A PG who rebounds well is like a PF/C who shoots 3 pointers well. It's nice but it's far from important.

[FkLA]

I agree about his jumpshot, but the guy was still solid on offense. IIRC his mid-range game was solid and he was probably the best at posting up other PGs, plus really good finisher and conductor on the fastbreak. Nash has always been an atrocious defender...Id say he was a way bigger liability and harder to hide than Kidd ever was on either side of the ball.

[resistanze]

LOL such a badass he goes 3-23 in the most important game of his life while the guy he's guarding puts up 21, 20, 10, and 8.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5iovq3zBW1r9e26to1_250.gif

[Clipper Nation]

He made the finals because the East was horrid those two years.
Yeah, but on the other hand, IIRC the Nets were never really seen as the favorites to come out the East.... people were expecting the Raptors, Magic, Hornets, Pacers, etc. to be the sacrifical lamb to the West champs... even though the East was trash, it does reflect well on Kidd's leadership that the Nets rose to the top of that crapheap....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

IIRC his mid-range game was solid

You're not remembering correctly.

[Jordanobili2320]

He made the finals because the East was horrid those two years.

It doesn't change the fact that he made it to the finals with a meh team two years in a row. That is calledbeing productive in your prime.

[Koolaid_Man]

It doesn't change the fact that he made it to the finals with a meh team two years in a row. That is calledbeing productive in your prime.

real talk...why do you call yourself Jordanobili 2320...do you think Jordan would have ever gotten only 70,000 votes for an All-Star game...:lol you may want to consider changing your name ....

[Brazil]

I like Kidd here tbh even if daf86 remarks make sense too even if his offensive relative struggles vs. Nash never became a liability in his prime: you don't let Kidd in his prime open in O. Also one cannot forget his impact on this Knicks team, he is one of the reason they came together this year.

[whitemamba]

take the year 01'-02'jkidd went to the finals, and the year nash 2010 went to the WCF and switch them does nash beat the lakers in the finals in '02 or does j kidd beat the lakers to advance to the finals and possible beat the celtics in'10...

for example

J Kidd would of had, amare, hill , j rich, frye, lopez, dragic, dudley, barbosa, and few others..
Nash would of had, brandon armstrong, richard jefferson, kerry kittles , kenyon martin, aaron williams, keith van horn..

i think j kidd took that team the farthest they could of gone, as great as nash is, i dont think would of been able to take them farther.

[Dallas]

"Nash would of had, brandon armstrong, richard jefferson, kerry kittles , kenyon martin, aaron williams, keith van horn.."

8th seed in East

[Jordanobili2320]

real talk...why do you call yourself Jordanobili 2320...do you think Jordan would have ever gotten only 70,000 votes for an All-Star game...:lol you may want to consider changing your name ....

How is that funny? You hurt my feelings man!

[Jordanobili2320]

take the year 01'-02'jkidd went to the finals, and the year nash 2010 went to the WCF and switch them does nash beat the lakers in the finals in '02 or does j kidd beat the lakers to advance to the finals and possible beat the celtics in'10...

for example

J Kidd would of had, amare, hill , j rich, frye, lopez, dragic, dudley, barbosa, and few others..
Nash would of had, brandon armstrong, richard jefferson, kerry kittles , kenyon martin, aaron williams, keith van horn..

i think j kidd took that team the farthest they could of gone, as great as nash is, i dont think would of been able to take them farther.

good points here

[Latarian Milton]

defense ain't the most important attribute for a PG but it doesn't mean you can be a defensive liability either imho. nash might have the ability to be a good scorer himself but on the other end of the floor he would allow the opposing PG to score more, and you can hardly cover it up with good team defense when the opposing team moves the ball well. plus nash's impact on offense is rather limited when he faces a lento half-court defense or when he doesn't have a quality big to play p'n'r with

[Jodelo]

^This.

Nash needs P&R to score and be successful!

Kidd can help the team on the halfcourt-offense too!

[whitemamba]

^This.

Nash needs P&R to score and be successful!

Kidd can help the team on the halfcourt-offense too!

i dont understand the pick n roll is part of the game.. if he can be successful most the time using it, and hes mastered it. why wouldnt that be his play of choice

[Malik Hairston]

:lol No, he can't..

The 2002 Nets and 2003 Nets were 17th/18th in the NBA, offensively..they were fast break-reliant teams that struggled in transition, mostly due to their lack of a shot creator, including Kidd..

Offensively, Nash is better in every aspect of the game..he led some of the best offensive teams in NBA history, and his impact upon arrival to Phoenix is legendary, from a numbers perspective..regarding your pick&roll comment, every team in the NBA attempts to rely heavily on pick&rolls, it is the most effective play in basketball..

As for supporting cast..Nash's help was superior, but if you replaced him with Kidd, the Suns would be noticeably inferior..their entire system would have collapsed..the Suns were a meltdown away from winning an NBA title..also, Nash still managed to lead a team to the WCFs without Amare, in a difficult Western conference..

Kidd's Nets competed in some of the worst conferences in NBA history, tbh..

[FkLA]

You're not remembering correctly.

Meh he shot 40% from 16 ft to 3pt line from 01-08 before he was traded to Dallas and his game started changing tbh. I guess it was a stretch on my part to call it solid but I also wouldnt say thats a liability either. Nigga also shot around 33-34% from three during that stretch surprisingly, and other than 01' made over 100 3s every season too. I think alot of us (including myself) are selling his jumpshot short tbh. He was never a liability like Rondo is, or even someone like Parker who makes about 20 3s a season and who hasnt shot over 40% from that same midrange distance once the past three seasons despite his improved shot.

Regarding the argument against him about the weakness of the East at the time. The Nets sucked before he got there, it doesnt minimize the impact he had on the team...not sure if it was bigger than the Spurs turnaround in 98' but I know the win-loss turnaround was up there as the best ever in 02' when Kidd first got there. Also that same argument could be used when talking about MVPs tbh...does Nash beat out prime TD/KG/Shaq out during the early 00s? Nash won his in a weaker era. I dont think its unfair to say Kidd couldve won atleast one if Timmy and KG were a few years older in 02-03.

[Jordanobili2320]

:lol No, he can't..

The 2002 Nets and 2003 Nets were 17th/18th in the NBA, offensively..they were fast break-reliant teams that struggled in transition, mostly due to their lack of a shot creator, including Kidd..

Offensively, Nash is better in every aspect of the game..he led some of the best offensive teams in NBA history, and his impact upon arrival to Phoenix is legendary, from a numbers perspective..regarding your pick&roll comment, every team in the NBA attempts to rely heavily on pick&rolls, it is the most effective play in basketball..

As for supporting cast..Nash's help was superior, but if you replaced him with Kidd, the Suns would be noticeably inferior..their entire system would have collapsed..the Suns were a meltdown away from winning an NBA title..also, Nash still managed to lead a team to the WCFs without Amare, in a difficult Western conference..

Kidd's Nets competed in some of the worst conferences in NBA history, tbh..

Im sorry, why would the Suns have collapsed with Jason Kidd running the show? As if he wouldn't have set up a young Stoudemire, Marion and JJ? Also, Amare was on the team Nash led to the WCF so you must be on some serious crack.

[Jordanobili2320]

Meh he shot 40% from 16 ft to 3pt line from 01-08 before he was traded to Dallas and his game started changing tbh. I guess it was a stretch on my part to call it solid but I also wouldnt say thats a liability either. Nigga also shot around 33-34% from three during that stretch surprisingly, and other than 01' made over 100 3s every season too. I think alot of us (including myself) are selling his jumpshot short tbh. He was never a liability like Rondo is, or even someone like Parker who makes about 20 3s a season and who hasnt shot over 40% from that same midrange distance once the past three seasons despite his improved shot.

Agreed, no one was winning MVPs at the turn of the century when guys like DUncan, Shaq and KG were straight up dominating. By the time Nash won those dudes primes were almost done.
Regarding the argument against him about the weakness of the East at the time. The Nets sucked before he got there, it doesnt minimize the impact he had on the team...not sure if it was bigger than the Spurs turnaround in 98' but I know the win-loss turnaround was up there as the best ever in 02' when Kidd first got there. Also that same argument could be used when talking about MVPs tbh...does Nash beat out prime TD/KG/Shaq out during the early 00s? Nash won his in a weaker era. I dont think its unfair to say Kidd couldve won atleast one if Timmy and KG were a few years older in 02-03.

[Malik Hairston]

Im sorry, why would the Suns have collapsed with Jason Kidd running the show? As if he wouldn't have set up a young Stoudemire, Marion and JJ? Also, Amare was on the team Nash led to the WCF so you must be on some serious crack.

Amare missed the 2006 season..

Phoenix's pick&roll game was dangerous due to Nash being one of the best shooters in NBA history..

Kidd couldn't shoot and he was poor at finishing at the rim..Kidd isn't nearly as threatening in the pick&roll, opposing teams have never been afraid of his scoring potential..

[z0sa]

Nash. If I had to pick based on stats or something, like say (just randomly) Isiah Thomas vs Big O, it'd be much harder. But I've seen a bunch of both players, and IMHO, Nash just impacts his team more. His defense sucks but he does draw charges at a high clip. Additionally he requires a very strong individual effort.

It's close but I take Nash in a real game.

[Latarian Milton]

kidd is one of those players whose impacts cannot be easily sensed until you lose their services imho. nash and him both deliver massive assists and it's really a hard call who is the better passer but kidd is more portable and it takes him no time to fit in a totally new system no matter in dallas, new jersey or NY, while nash only functions in run-and-gun systems.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Im sorry, why would the Suns have collapsed with Jason Kidd running the show? As if he wouldn't have set up a young Stoudemire, Marion and JJ? Also, Amare was on the team Nash led to the WCF so you must be on some serious crack.
So much revisionist history in this post.

[Axe Murderer]

sup DUNCAN?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

sup Axe

[Axe Murderer]

sup Axe

Not a whole lot brother. Just trying to find a way through the day, light for a night

Just playing the recorder waiting for the cuck cobra to pop its head out etc