View Full Version : Those Who Say 'I Support the Troops' Really Don't
DarrinS
01-03-2013, 01:53 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/support-the-troops_b_2402749.html
I don't support the troops, America, and neither do you. I am tired of the ruse we are playing on these brave citizens in our armed forces. And guess what -- a lot of these soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines see right through the bullshit of those words, "I support the troops!," spoken by Americans with such false sincerity -- false because our actions don't match our words. These young men and women sign up to risk their very lives to protect us -- and this is what they get in return:
1. They get sent off to wars that have NOTHING to do with defending America or saving our lives. They are used as pawns so that the military-industrial complex can make billions of dollars and the rich here can expand their empire. By "supporting the troops," that means I'm supposed to shut up, don't ask questions, do nothing to stop the madness, and sit by and watch thousands of them die? Well, I've done an awful lot to try and end this. But the only way you can honestly say you support the troops is to work night and day to get them out of these hell holes they've been sent to. And what have I done this week to bring the troops home? Nothing. So if I say "I support the troops," don't believe me -- I clearly don't support the troops because I've got more important things to do today, like return an iPhone that doesn't work and take my car in for a tune up.
2. While the troops we claim to "support" are serving their country, bankers who say they too "support the troops," foreclose on the actual homes of these soldiers and evict their families while they are overseas! Have I gone and stood in front of the sheriff's deputy as he is throwing a military family out of their home? No. And there's your proof that I don't "support the troops," because if I did, I would organize mass sit-ins to block the doors of these homes. Instead, I'm having Chilean sea bass tonight.
3. How many of you who say you "support the troops" have visited a VA hospital to bring aid and comfort to the sick and wounded? I haven't. How many of you have any clue what it's like to deal with the VA? I don't. Therefore, you would be safe to say that I don't "support the troops," and neither do you.
4. Who amongst you big enthusiastic "supporters of the troops" can tell me the approximate number of service women who have been raped while in the military? Answer: 19,000 (mostly) female troops are raped or sexually assaulted every year by fellow American troops. What have you or I done to bring these criminals to justice? What's that, you say -- out of sight, out of mind? These women have suffered, and I've done nothing. So don't ever let me get away with telling you I "support the troops" because, sadly, I don't. And neither do you.
5. Help a homeless vet today? How 'bout yesterday? Last week? Last year? Ever? But I thought you "support the troops!"? The number of homeless veterans is staggering -- on any given night, at least 60,000 veterans are sleeping on the streets of the country that proudly "supports the troops." This is disgraceful and shameful, isn't it? And it exposes all those "troop supporters" who always vote against social programs that would help these veterans. Tonight there are at least 12,700 Iraq/Afghanistan veterans homeless and sleeping on the street. I've never lent a helping hand to one of the many vets I've seen sleeping on the street. I can't bear to look, and I walk past them very quickly. That's called not "supporting the troops," which, I guess, I don't -- and neither do you.
6. And you know, the beautiful thing about all this "support" you and I have been giving the troops -- they feel this love and support so much, a record number of them are killing themselves every single week. In fact, there are now more soldiers killing themselves than soldiers being killed in combat (323 suicides in 2012 through November vs. about 210 combat deaths). Yes, you are more likely to die by your own hand in the United States military than by al Qaeda or the Taliban. And an estimated eighteen veterans kill themselves each day, or one in five of all U.S. suicides -- though no one really knows because we don't bother to keep track. Now, that's what I call support! These troops are really feeling the love, people! Lemme hear you say it again: "I support the troops!" Louder! "I SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!" There, that's better. I'm sure they heard us. Don't forget to fly our flag, wear your flag lapel pin, and never, ever let a service member pass you by without saying, "Thank you for your service!" I'm sure that's all they need to keep from putting a bullet in their heads. Do your best to keep your "support" up for the troops because, God knows, I certainly can't any longer.
I don't "support the troops" or any of those other hollow and hypocritical platitudes uttered by Republicans and frightened Democrats. Here's what I do support: I support them coming home. I support them being treated well. I support peace, and I beg any young person reading this who's thinking of joining the armed forces to please reconsider. Our war department has done little to show you they won't recklessly put your young life in harm's way for a cause that has nothing to do with what you signed up for. They will not help you once they've used you and spit you back into society. If you're a woman, they will not protect you from rapists in their ranks. And because you have a conscience and you know right from wrong, you do not want yourself being used to kill civilians in other countries who never did anything to hurt us. We are currently involved in at least a half-dozen military actions around the world. Don't become the next statistic so that General Electric can post another record profit -- while paying no taxes -- taxes that otherwise would be paying for the artificial leg that they've kept you waiting for months to receive.
I support you, and will try to do more to be there for you. And the best way you can support me -- and the ideals our country says it believes in -- is to get out of the military as soon as you can and never look back.
And please, next time some "supporter of the troops" says to you with that concerned look on their face, "I thank you for your service," you have my permission to punch their lights out (figuratively speaking, of course).
(There is something I've done to support the troops -- other than help lead the effort to stop these senseless wars. At the movie theater I run in Michigan, I became the first person in town to institute an affirmative action plan for hiring returning Iraq/Afghanistan vets. I am working to get more businesses in town to join with me in this effort to find jobs for these returning soldiers. I also let all service members in to the movies for free, every day.)
clambake
01-03-2013, 01:59 PM
and?
johnsmith
01-03-2013, 02:06 PM
and?
Fuck, who knows! You see how long that shit is? I'm certainly not reading it.
DarrinS
01-03-2013, 02:16 PM
Fuck, who knows! You see how long that shit is? I'm certainly not reading it.
Then you must be really intimidated by a magazine or a book.
DarrinS
01-03-2013, 02:17 PM
I like Moore's logic that if HE doesn't do anything to actually support the troops, then YOU don't either.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 02:20 PM
The fact DarrinS is so up-in-arms over this article is a guilty conscience if I've ever seen one.
Th'Pusher
01-03-2013, 02:28 PM
Has anyone here seen The Invisible War? It's an investigative documentary about the rape epedimic in the US Military. Highly recommended.
CuckingFunt
01-03-2013, 02:39 PM
The fact DarrinS is so up-in-arms over this article is a guilty conscience if I've ever seen one.
This.
The only people to whom Moore's article is an insult are those who have for years taken pride in their support.
As someone who's served, I can say for certain that most of the military doesn't give a shit about citizens. They don't sign up to protect anyone or anything but their financial futures. It's a job, it's advertised as such (toughest job you'll ever love) and it's a means to an education for the lower to middle class people who don't have a shot at college for financial reasons. Many of these people get rude awakenings on day one in boot camp when the light hits their faces and they are being screamed at non stop. I don't recall that in my other job. They come to realize they are no longer civilians, they are owned like slaves and told what to do else they will be imprisoned and/or have a reputation that scars them for life. Some relish it and go into other things and do pretty good for themselves, others just wait it out to try to get a pension and maybe some disability. These are the enlisted. The officers are often groomed, especially the high end ones like academy grads, to lead the ones who are just there for food and shelter.
It's bullshit to think the military is full of honorable men and women. It's full of a cross section of society, mostly the lower class, who might do honorable things in certain situations or they might just leave if given the chance. This is the regular military, special forces is different.
I laugh when I hear people like fatass Moore comment about the military. He has no idea.
Th'Pusher
01-03-2013, 02:57 PM
People who join the military are 2x as like to have committed or attempted to commit rape than the civilian population.
boutons_deux
01-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Has anyone here seen The Invisible War? It's an investigative documentary about the rape epedimic in the US Military. Highly recommended.
about 1/3 of women in the Army have been assaulted or raped.
happens at the military academies, too.
boys will be boys
clambake
01-03-2013, 04:02 PM
is it legitimate?
about 1/3 of women in the Army have been assaulted or raped.
happens at the military academies, too.
boys will be boys
Assumption of risk
Clipper Nation
01-03-2013, 07:21 PM
Michael Moore is actually right for once in his life, I'm impressed....
Th'Pusher
01-03-2013, 07:21 PM
Assumption of risk
Wouldn't that require the specific risk (higher probability of being raped) be made known to the enlisted prior to joining the military?
Halberto
01-03-2013, 07:22 PM
is it legitimate?
:lol
LnGrrrR
01-03-2013, 07:32 PM
I like Moore's logic that if HE doesn't do anything to actually support the troops, then YOU don't either.
Do you think that the majority of people who want to support the troops actually do the things he's mentioned? For instance, I'm sure you support the troops DarrinS. Have you done a few of the above mentioned things?
Oh, and regarding the rape comment, it's a huge deal that they're cracking the whip on now. We've heard it from a 4 star all the way down to our commander. Of course, they also keep saying that our mission load will get lighter as we have less money and less people to do missions, and the tempo hasn't slowed any from where I sit.
Suicide was the other big topic they've brought up... I guess since the missions haven't slowed down, why gosh, it somewhat puts stress on soldiers and not all 100% respond positively. Big surprise! Call my cynical, but the only reason they'd slow down the tempo is because enough soldiers are killing themselves to make it non-cost-effective to keep it up.
I do think the idea that Moore proposes that if you're not constantly supporting the troops then you're not supporting them at all. That's a pretty stupid idea. Also, I won't be getting out of the military anytime soon. Not unless Moore wants to pay for my retirement, medical care, find me a job, etc etc. Plus, the US obviously has to have SOME military.
LnGrrrR
01-03-2013, 07:40 PM
As someone who's served, I can say for certain that most of the military doesn't give a shit about citizens. They don't sign up to protect anyone or anything but their financial futures. It's a job, it's advertised as such (toughest job you'll ever love) and it's a means to an education for the lower to middle class people who don't have a shot at college for financial reasons. Many of these people get rude awakenings on day one in boot camp when the light hits their faces and they are being screamed at non stop. I don't recall that in my other job. They come to realize they are no longer civilians, they are owned like slaves and told what to do else they will be imprisoned and/or have a reputation that scars them for life. Some relish it and go into other things and do pretty good for themselves, others just wait it out to try to get a pension and maybe some disability. These are the enlisted. The officers are often groomed, especially the high end ones like academy grads, to lead the ones who are just there for food and shelter.
It's bullshit to think the military is full of honorable men and women. It's full of a cross section of society, mostly the lower class, who might do honorable things in certain situations or they might just leave if given the chance. This is the regular military, special forces is different.
I laugh when I hear people like fatass Moore comment about the military. He has no idea.
For the most part, true. While I do enjoy serving my country, if I couldn't feed my family, and I didn't have the perks I have, I would likely get out. I could make probably a good deal if I got out, but I enjoy the enlisted Air Force lifestyle. I feel like I get good training, both in a technical and managerial fashion.
Spurminator
01-03-2013, 08:07 PM
Darrin's last two threads have been a video of celebrities and a Michael Moore column.
I think you need a new news source, bro.
Jacob1983
01-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Other than saying thank you and telling them that you appreciate their service and sacrifice, what else can you say to them? I'm not trying to start shit or be rude or disrespectful to veterans but you can't just go up to them and be buddy buddy with them. A lot of them have mental issues and physical injuries. Yeah, you can volunteer and help them in a voluntary way but you can't fix their physical, mental, and emotional injuries that will probably be with them until they die. No matter what you say and do, some of these veterans will never be the same.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 08:11 PM
Other than saying thank you and telling them that you appreciate their service and sacrifice, what else can you say to them?
Don't say anything. Your tax dollars pay their salaries. That is sufficient enough.
Borat Sagyidev
01-03-2013, 08:20 PM
I laugh when I hear people like fatass Moore comment about the military. He has no idea.
I think you´re taking it a bit far. You must have never taken on live fire. The tasks the military were given in Iraq particularly are not worth risking your life for.
LnGrrrR
01-03-2013, 08:28 PM
Other than saying thank you and telling them that you appreciate their service and sacrifice, what else can you say to them? I'm not trying to start shit or be rude or disrespectful to veterans but you can't just go up to them and be buddy buddy with them. A lot of them have mental issues and physical injuries. Yeah, you can volunteer and help them in a voluntary way but you can't fix their physical, mental, and emotional injuries that will probably be with them until they die. No matter what you say and do, some of these veterans will never be the same.
I think Moore's point was that if you support the troops, you should actually volunteer either your time or money.
spursncowboys
01-03-2013, 08:34 PM
As someone who's served, I can say for certain that most of the military doesn't give a shit about citizens. They don't sign up to protect anyone or anything but their financial futures. It's a job, it's advertised as such (toughest job you'll ever love) and it's a means to an education for the lower to middle class people who don't have a shot at college for financial reasons. Many of these people get rude awakenings on day one in boot camp when the light hits their faces and they are being screamed at non stop. I don't recall that in my other job. They come to realize they are no longer civilians, they are owned like slaves and told what to do else they will be imprisoned and/or have a reputation that scars them for life. Some relish it and go into other things and do pretty good for themselves, others just wait it out to try to get a pension and maybe some disability. These are the enlisted. The officers are often groomed, especially the high end ones like academy grads, to lead the ones who are just there for food and shelter.
It's bullshit to think the military is full of honorable men and women. It's full of a cross section of society, mostly the lower class, who might do honorable things in certain situations or they might just leave if given the chance. This is the regular military, special forces is different.
I laugh when I hear people like fatass Moore comment about the military. He has no idea.
The combat-arms side is a completely different beast than the others. I had my degree and had a better paying job before I joined.
But I agree with your point that most military couldn't give a shit less about what cowards like DOK think or acknowledge.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 08:39 PM
Calling me a coward doesn't bring your dead friends back :lmao
LMAO dying so Haliburton can get a no bid contract
Jacob1983
01-03-2013, 09:03 PM
Paying taxes is good but you can't just say that paying taxes is enough for soldiers because that's bullshit and you know it. People should help veterans but only because they want to do so. It should be voluntary meaning that you are sincere and have good intentions about helping veterans. If you can't spare your time, then give a donation. If you say "fuck you" to veterans and the military, then maybe you just shouldn't bitch about the military anymore.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 09:19 PM
Why is it bullshit? They sign up voluntarily knowing what the pay and benefits are.
spursncowboys
01-03-2013, 10:24 PM
Calling you a coward does nothing but state the obvious
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 10:31 PM
Whatever makes you feel better about your dead friends
spursncowboys
01-03-2013, 10:43 PM
Like most of your posts- that doesn't make any sense.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 10:44 PM
It does to anyone who's not a military shill
LnGrrrR
01-03-2013, 10:57 PM
Why is it bullshit? They sign up voluntarily knowing what the pay and benefits are.
The same could be said for any profession, but policemen, firefighters, doctors and other careers are usually thanked in some manner as well.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 11:02 PM
The same could be said for any profession, but policemen, firefighters, doctors and other careers are usually thanked in some manner as well.
Doctors especially, but thanking someone for doing a paid job they signed up for is stupid regardless.
Jacob1983
01-03-2013, 11:18 PM
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/e0b/1af/716/resized/indignant-west-african-negro-meme-generator-have-some-respect-bitch-39d371.png?1313711245.jpg
I think you´re taking it a bit far. You must have never taken on live fire. The tasks the military were given in Iraq particularly are not worth risking your life for.
lol, you think Michael Moore has?
CuckingFunt
01-03-2013, 11:53 PM
I do think the idea that Moore proposes that if you're not constantly supporting the troops then you're not supporting them at all. That's a pretty stupid idea.
I didn't really get that from the article.
Doctors especially, but thanking someone for doing a paid job they signed up for is stupid regardless.
Bit like tipping a waiter, don't you think?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 11:57 PM
The last waiter I had who served me food has done more for me than everyone who fought in the Iraq War combined.
spursncowboys
01-03-2013, 11:58 PM
Bit like tipping a waiter, don't you think?
He just says it to make a rise. Like someone who can't come up with anything witty so they revert back to their 12 year old female response that isn't funny or well thought. Kind of like a mom joke in the 00's.
Wouldn't that require the specific risk (higher probability of being raped) be made known to the enlisted prior to joining the military?
You don't think women are aware of that risk when they join a militaristic institution predominated by men?
spursncowboys
01-03-2013, 11:59 PM
You don't think women are aware of that risk when they join a militaristic institution predominated by men?
Are you two implying a woman who joins the military is more likely to get raped than if she stayed a civilian?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-03-2013, 11:59 PM
He just says it to make a rise.
Seeing that it gets a response from you every time, I'd say it's working (even though I'm saying it to just spread my knowledge, not get a rise).
The last waiter I had who served me food has done more for me than everyone who fought in the Iraq War combined.
Still he's just doing the job he's paid to do.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:01 AM
Still he's just doing the job he's paid to do.
Tips comprise a waiter's pay. If tips were just supposed to be a bonus, I wouldn't really tip outside of rare occasion. You're intentionally being obtuse.
I thought you guise don't care whottt I think?
Tips comprise a waiter's pay. If tips were just supposed to be a bonus, I wouldn't really tip outside of rare occasion. You're intentionally being obtuse.
They are not included and are not required. The amount isn't fixed, if you give more you are showing your appreciation (thanks) for the service that the waiter was paid to give you. He knew he was taking a low wage job, and tips cannot be counted on.
I am not being obtuse. If a job deserves no thanks because the person doing it knew what they were getting in to, then the waiter deserves no appreciation. If a cop or doctor or firefighter has done nothing for me personally, I shouldn't appreciate them or thank them because they knew what they were signing up for.
I don't know any military people who expect to be thanked, but the ones who have been remember it. There doesn't need to be direct ties to what they've done, just that they do it. No one has to thank them, people often feel compelled to however.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:04 AM
They are not included and are not required. The amount isn't fixed, if you give more you are showing your appreciation (thanks) for the service that the waiter was paid to give you. He knew he was taking a low wage job, and tips cannot be counted on.
Yeah, intentionally being obtuse.
It is funny seeing you compare people in the military to waiters though :lmao
lol not caring about my opinion but continuing to inquire as to why I'm such a big meanie
Yeah, intentionally being obtuse.
It is funny seeing you compare people in the military to waiters though :lmao
lol not caring about my opinion but continuing to inquire as to why I'm such a big meanie
Your opinion is what it is, and you're sharing it on a thread about supporting the troops. You should expect someone to inquire.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:07 AM
They are not included and are not required. The amount isn't fixed, if you give more you are showing your appreciation (thanks) for the service that the waiter was paid to give you. He knew he was taking a low wage job, and tips cannot be counted on.
I am not being obtuse. If a job deserves no thanks because the person doing it knew what they were getting in to, then the waiter deserves no appreciation. If a cop or doctor or firefighter has done nothing for me personally, I shouldn't appreciate them or thank them because they knew what they were signing up for.
I don't know any military people who expect to be thanked, but the ones who have been remember it. There doesn't need to be direct ties to what they've done, just that they do it. No one has to thank them, people often feel compelled to however.
Adding more to your post just shows how little you care about my opinion.
Keep telling me more about how insignificant my opinion that you keep analyzing is.
Are you two implying a woman who joins the military is more likely to get raped than if she stayed a civilian?
Yes
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:08 AM
Your opinion is what it is, and you're sharing it on a thread about supporting the troops. You should expect someone to inquire.
I don't expect someone who says he was in the military and people in the military don't care about my opinion to inquire.
I don't expect someone who says he was in the military and people in the military don't care about my opinion to inquire.
I am not currently in the military. I never said they don't care about your opinion, I said they don't care about you. They aren't sitting around saying "we have to save these civilians" like Moore seems to suggest. It's funny when someone pretends that a person becomes a hero just because they take the oath of enlistment, as if anyone wearing a uniform is a hero. It's a job. Some come home in a pine box, and they might have done some heroic shit before they died, but that's not for you and me, it's for their comrades who were in shit deep.
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 12:11 AM
You don't think women are aware of that risk when they join a militaristic institution predominated by men?
So a woman working in a male dominated inudustry (firefighter, police, wall street, senator) assumes the risk of rape thereby releasing all liability?
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Are you two implying a woman who joins the military is more likely to get raped than if she stayed a civilian?
Yes. And stats back it up.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:12 AM
I am not currently in the military. I never said they don't care about your opinion, I said they don't care about you.
So they care about my opinion then?
It's good to know my opinion pisses them off because they subconsciously know it's true.
So they care about my opinion then?
It's good to know my opinion pisses them off because they subconsciously know it's true.
I didn't say they do care about your opinion. I never mentioned your opinion.
So a woman working in a male dominated inudustry (firefighter, police, wall street, senator) assumes the risk of rape thereby releasing all liability?
Hey I know, why don't you take an obvious statement and build a strawman then fight that while we watch.
Adding more to your post just shows how little you care about my opinion.
Keep telling me more about how insignificant my opinion that you keep analyzing is.
Show me where I mentioned your opinion. In fact, show me where I mentioned you at all.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:15 AM
I didn't say they do care about your opinion. I never mentioned your opinion.
So do they care or not care about my opinion?
So do they care or not care about my opinion?
You'd have to ask each one individually, they don't think in group lock step. Most of the ones I've met probably wouldn't care about your opinion though, but I haven't met all of them.
So a woman working in a male dominated inudustry (firefighter, police, wall street, senator) assumes the risk of rape thereby releasing all liability?
Obviously not, I was being facetious. But I'm not surprised that women in a militaristic institution predominated by men get raped a shit ton more than civvies. And neither should enlisted women. That's my point.
How are firefighters, senators, and ibankers analogous here?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:20 AM
Show me where I mentioned your opinion. In fact, show me where I mentioned you at all.
What I got from your initial post is that most in the military doesn't give two shits about people like me or what people like me think.
I'd contend there are plenty of servicemen/servicewomen who get an ego boost and smug feeling every time they see a "support our troops!" bumper sticker, a lot of which were convinced to join the military largely due to the phony praise citizens give them by slapping a bumper sticker on their car. Maybe not you personally, but a significant amount of people in the military.
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 12:20 AM
Hey I know, why don't you take an obvious statement and build a strawman then fight that while we watch.
It was a question. Assumption of risk bars liability from the defendant.
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 12:26 AM
Obviously not, I was being facetious. But I'm not surprised that women in a militaristic institution predominated by men get raped a shit ton more than civvies. And neither should enlisted women. That's my point.
How are firefighters, senators, and ibankers analogous here?
They're analogous in that they're institutions predominated by men.
I am not surprised enlisted females get raped more frequently than civilians but that does not mean the assumption of risk is at all applicable.
mingus
01-04-2013, 12:36 AM
If we don't have volunteered military to the extent that we do, we would have a draft implemented. I don't know if and I doubt the wars go on for as long as they have/had, but I think a draft would be put in place. I thank them out of selfishness.
Jacob1983
01-04-2013, 12:37 AM
You're a dumbass if you think soldiers both active and retired don't care what civilians think of them and the job they do. Just think of how it affected during the Vietnam War and the War in Iraq and compare that to how civilians treated soldiers during WWII. It's a morale boost for soldiers if civilians show support for them and care or at least pretend to care.
There are soldiers in the Middle East risking their lives so you can jack off to godaddy.com commercials. Have some fuckin' respect.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 12:43 AM
No one in the middle east poses a threat to my freedom to jack off to godaddy.com commercials. The fact they're raping and pillaging a few backwards Islamic countries doesn't deserve my respect.
The reason they were treated better during WWII is because WWII was the last legitimate war America fought in where the military actually protected our freedom. Every war since then has been political bullshit.
They're analogous in that they're institutions predominated by men.
I am not surprised enlisted females get raped more frequently than civilians but that does not mean the assumption of risk is at all applicable.
Not really. They don't fetishize violence and masculinity the way the military does. But your right, saying "she joined the military so we can rape her" wouldn't fly in court. That being said, if some chick is that concerned about not getting raped, she should consider other options besides the armed forced.
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 12:59 AM
Not really. They don't fetishize violence and masculinity the way the military does. But your right, saying "she joined the military so we can rape her" wouldn't fly in court. That being said, if some chick is that concerned about not getting raped, she should consider other options besides the armed forced.
I can agree with that. At the same time, I can also say that women should be able to join the military with reasonable expectation that she will not be raped at a higher rate than a civilian and should she be raped, she should enjoy the same protections as civilians.
Jacob1983
01-04-2013, 01:11 AM
Saying that every soldier is harming innocents in the Middle East is no different than Bubba saying that every Middle Easterner is a terrorist.
DoK, do you go up to veterans and active servicemen and spit in their faces? I'm just curious because you're kind of a dick toward the military. I mean you're entitled to your opinion but I would advise against talking shit to veterans and active servicemen because they might beat the shit out of you and/or kill you.
I can agree with that. At the same time, I can also say that women should be able to join the military with reasonable expectation that she will not be raped at a higher rate than a civilian and should she be raped, she should enjoy the same protections as civilians.
Of course. We're not saying anything profound here, but what is and what should be seldom overlap.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 01:35 AM
Seeing that it gets a response from you every time, I'd say it's working (even though I'm saying it to just spread my knowledge, not get a rise).
Yeah it's weird how being vile and cowardly annoy me.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 01:37 AM
Yes. And stats back it up.
What stats?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 01:41 AM
I would advise against talking shit to veterans and active servicemen because they might beat the shit out of you and/or kill you.
They would beat the shit out of me and kill me? I thought these were honorable people I'm supposed to respect?
And you ignored my main point. Absolutely NONE of the soldiers currently in the middle east are protecting my freedom in any way. As someone who's so against drone wars and involvement in middle eastern affairs, you should know that the middle east does not pose any threat to american freedom.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 01:43 AM
Saying that every soldier is harming innocents in the Middle East is no different than Bubba saying that every Middle Easterner is a terrorist.
DoK, do you go up to veterans and active servicemen and spit in their faces? I'm just curious because you're kind of a dick toward the military. I mean you're entitled to your opinion but I would advise against talking shit to veterans and active servicemen because they might beat the shit out of youThat's why he does it online
and/or kill you.
Seriously?
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 01:44 AM
They would beat the shit out of me and kill me? I thought these were honorable people I'm supposed to respect?
And you ignored my main point. Absolutely NONE of the soldiers currently in the middle east are protecting my freedom in any way. As someone who's so against drone wars and involvement in middle eastern affairs, you should know that the middle east does not pose any threat to american freedom.
Where are you getting your information from?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 01:45 AM
Where are you getting your information from?
Someone other than Michelle bible bangin' Bachmann.
Jacob1983
01-04-2013, 01:52 AM
I've never seen such disrespect for the US military. It's fuckin' pathetic and totally disrespectful but I guess that's why you're behind a computer right now on the internet jacking off to Michelle Bachmann in your underwear and big gut hanging out while America's soldiers are thousands of miles from home doing shit that most people can't and refuse to do.
mingus
01-04-2013, 02:40 AM
They would beat the shit out of me and kill me? I thought these were honorable people I'm supposed to respect?
And you ignored my main point. Absolutely NONE of the soldiers currently in the middle east are protecting my freedom in any way. As someone who's so against drone wars and involvement in middle eastern affairs, you should know that the middle east does not pose any threat to american freedom.
They sort of have been protecting your freedom, unless you don't think that their voluntary participation hasn't kept a draft from being implemented and/or you don't consider a draft to infringe on your freedom. I think that given how stupid, easily tricked/manipulated people are in this country, and how manipulative, uninformed and influential the media is, the majority of people still would have at least in the beginning supported the wars we've been in, and without a draft you would have possibly had your name called. Now, you could always have go to Canada or Mexico to avoid it (like your pussy ass probably would have), but the fact that you never had to make that choice is in itself an act of protection of your freedom by the military.
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 03:01 AM
Michael Moore is actually right for once in his life, I'm impressed....
That would be a first.
I guess I'll read it.
SA210
01-04-2013, 03:32 AM
Most people fuck over the troops while saying they support them. Many people don't even understand what it even means to support the troops. Just a bullshit slogan sold as blind fake patriotism, costs noone anything to say it and gets automatic applause, all while supporting policies that put them in harms way when absolutely UNNECESSARY, we even send our own kids to their deaths and tell ourselves that it's a great thing, we send them to die and murder and we are proud of it.
Well, let's see what the troops really wanted..How many people "claim" to support the troops, yet voted AGAINST the troops and what THEY wanted?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChXYfLaJnj4
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 03:55 AM
I think Moore's point was that if you support the troops, you should actually volunteer either your time or money.
Yep. He's changing the meaning. I was hopeful it was actually a good take, but it's just another moore-onic piece. Support isn't meant literally, as in money or other handouts, but in the comradely. Maybe it just takes another soldier to understand the military values. Moore clearly doesn't.
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:01 AM
Calling me a coward doesn't bring your dead friends back :lmao
It is sad that people die in war. Still, it is something that all soldiers know can happen. I have an uncle who died when I was 15 in a "training accident." Well, all of us in the family knew the story the military told us was false. I suspect he was on one of those classified missions. He was my favorite uncle too. Still, it never kept me from being afraid to serve.
LMAO dying so Haliburton can get a no bid contract
Such ignorance.
Which no bid contract are you speaking of? To my knowledge, all but one contract awarded were bid contracts. The one that was a no bid contract was rightfully so, but then I bet you haven't a clue to the truth of the one I speak of. You just listen to the shrills.
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:03 AM
Paying taxes is good but you can't just say that paying taxes is enough for soldiers because that's bullshit and you know it. People should help veterans but only because they want to do so. It should be voluntary meaning that you are sincere and have good intentions about helping veterans. If you can't spare your time, then give a donation. If you say "fuck you" to veterans and the military, then maybe you just shouldn't bitch about the military anymore.
Any harm done to soldiers in service should be paid for out of tax dollars. The rest is debatable.
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:04 AM
Calling you a coward does nothing but state the obvious
:tu
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:06 AM
Are you two implying a woman who joins the military is more likely to get raped than if she stayed a civilian?
I'd say less likely.
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:08 AM
If we don't have volunteered military to the extent that we do, we would have a draft implemented. I don't know if and I doubt the wars go on for as long as they have/had, but I think a draft would be put in place. I thank them out of selfishness.
LOL...
Looks like an honest take...
Wild Cobra
01-04-2013, 04:10 AM
You're a dumbass if you think soldiers both active and retired don't care what civilians think of them and the job they do. Just think of how it affected during the Vietnam War and the War in Iraq and compare that to how civilians treated soldiers during WWII. It's a morale boost for soldiers if civilians show support for them and care or at least pretend to care.
There are soldiers in the Middle East risking their lives so you can jack off to godaddy.com commercials. Have some fuckin' respect.
As long as returning soldiers don't get treated like the Vietnam vets did, I don't care what the pussies think or say. The soldier knows they are pussies.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 04:38 AM
The last waiter I had who served me food has done more for me than everyone who fought in the Iraq War combined.
Are you one of those shitty tippers? "I'm giving you a dollar for this $50 tab, don't bitch, you knew in advance tips weren't guaranteed." :lol
Edit: Ah, somebody already got into it. Too easy. :lol
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 04:39 AM
I didn't really get that from the article.
See his first comment:
By "supporting the troops," that means I'm supposed to shut up, don't ask questions, do nothing to stop the madness, and sit by and watch thousands of them die? Well, I've done an awful lot to try and end this. But the only way you can honestly say you support the troops is to work night and day to get them out of these hell holes they've been sent to. And what have I done this week to bring the troops home? Nothing. So if I say "I support the troops," don't believe me -- I clearly don't support the troops because I've got more important things to do today, like return an iPhone that doesn't work and take my car in for a tune up.
Trainwreck2100
01-04-2013, 04:40 AM
The last waiter I had who served me food has done more for me than everyone who fought in the Iraq War combined.
Those soldiers in the Iraq war deflect muslim hatred from your jew ass.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 04:45 AM
They would beat the shit out of me and kill me? I thought these were honorable people I'm supposed to respect?
And you ignored my main point. Absolutely NONE of the soldiers currently in the middle east are protecting my freedom in any way. As someone who's so against drone wars and involvement in middle eastern affairs, you should know that the middle east does not pose any threat to american freedom.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 04:46 AM
They would beat the shit out of me and kill me? I thought these were honorable people I'm supposed to respect?
And you ignored my main point. Absolutely NONE of the soldiers currently in the middle east are protecting my freedom in any way. As someone who's so against drone wars and involvement in middle eastern affairs, you should know that the middle east does not pose any threat to american freedom.
Better respect me DoK... I keep Americas internets safe and free. Cyber Warrior baby!
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:22 AM
Those soldiers in the Iraq war deflect muslim hatred from your jew ass.
That's where your wrong. The soldiers in Iraq helped spread Islamic extremism by taking out a secular dictator.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
They sort of have been protecting your freedom, unless you don't think that their voluntary participation hasn't kept a draft from being implemented and/or you don't consider a draft to infringe on your freedom. I think that given how stupid, easily tricked/manipulated people are in this country, and how manipulative, uninformed and influential the media is, the majority of people still would have at least in the beginning supported the wars we've been in, and without a draft you would have possibly had your name called. Now, you could always have go to Canada or Mexico to avoid it (like your pussy ass probably would have), but the fact that you never had to make that choice is in itself an act of protection of your freedom by the military.
If they ever tried to implement a draft for the War in Iraq, there would have been unprecedented public outrage in this country.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:29 AM
:lol waking up today to see I had 8 people quote me in this thread
:lol I'd say the military dicksucks care plenty about my opinion
CosmicCowboy
01-04-2013, 10:00 AM
19,000 rapes a year? WTF? Where exactly does this number come from?
The military certainly took the instructor abuses at Lackland seriously.
resistanze
01-04-2013, 10:41 AM
:lol waking up today to see I had 8 people quote me in this thread
:lol I'd say the military dicksucks care plenty about my opinion
Freedom ain't free, motherfucker. While you sleep at night there are servicemen protecting Saudi Royals that behead people for witchcraft and prohibit women from driving.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 10:43 AM
Freedom ain't free, motherfucker. While you sleep at night there are servicemen protecting Saudi Royals that behead people for witchcraft and prohibit women from driving.
I still laugh at the way neocons/military shill avoid the topic of Saudi Arabia like mookie avoids the salad bar
resistanze
01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
I still laugh at the way neocons/military shill avoid the topic of Saudi Arabia like mookie avoids the salad bar
Not much you can say about financing & supporting the most backward Islamic theocracy in the world, tbh. Pretty sure the Iraqis had it 100X better under Saddam than the Saudis do now.
Iranian BoogeyMan
01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
There are soldiers in the Middle East risking their lives so you can jack off to godaddy.com commercials. Have some fuckin' respect.
You better believe it :tu
boutons_deux
01-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Military Sexual Assault Epidemic Continues To Claim Victims As Defense Department Fails Females
Active-duty female personnel make up roughly 14.5 percent (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/WomenintheMilitaryinfographic.pdf) -- or 207,308 members -- of the more than 1.4 million Armed Forces, according to the Department of Defense.
One in three military women has been sexually assaulted (http://www.dol.gov/wb/trauma/traumaguide.htm), compared to one in six civilian women, according to Defense. According to calculations by The Huffington Post, a servicewoman was nearly 180 times more likely to have become a victim of military sexual assault (MSA) in the past year than to have died while deployed during the last 11 years of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.
According to the most recent report by the Pentagon's Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office (http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/Department_of_Defense_Fiscal_Year_2011_Annual_Repo rt_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf), 3,192 sexual assaults were reported out of an estimated 19,000 -- roughly 52 a day -- between Oct. 1, 2010, to Sept. 31, 2011. The department estimates that only roughly 14 percent of the assaults were reported. The majority of sexual assaults each year are committed against service members by service members (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/SMonSMFY2011.pdf), SAPRO reports. While MSA does not affect only women, the office characterizes the"vast majority" (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/Victim-SubjectProfileFY2010vFY2011.pdf)of victims as female junior enlists (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/VictimRankCompletedInvestigations.pdf) under the age of 25 (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/AgeVictimsFY11.pdf), and the "vast majority" of perpetrators as male, older (under the age of 35) (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/SubjectAgeFY2011.pdf) and generally higher-ranking (http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/RankSubjectsFY11.pdf).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/06/military-sexual-assault-defense-department_n_1834196.html
WC, my little bitch, be slapped.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:03 AM
The fact we have 1.4 million people in the armed forces is so ridiculously unnecessary. It's also ironic neocons complain about public sector jobs but dont seem to mind those 1.4 million public sector jobs :lol
CuckingFunt
01-04-2013, 11:08 AM
I'd say less likely.
Is this more from Wild Cobra's school of "I've got a hunch..." forensics?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:11 AM
Is this more from Wild Cobra's school of "I've got a hunch..." forensics?
Yeah. It's also from his school of "Let me ignore statistics that directly contradict my opinion...." analysis
I have no issue with people who join the military who do it because they believe they're serving our country.
The problem is that just about every military person I've ever met, just does it for the benefits/recognition/get into college/get a job etc which again I have no problem with. Everyone's trying to get by with whatever means necessary but I'm not gonna stoop and kiss their ass because they're just doing it for their own personal gain.
boutons_deux
01-04-2013, 11:21 AM
Yeah. It's also from his school of "Let me ignore statistics that directly contradict my opinion...." analysis
or the AGW-type or creationist type of denial: I found one fact that totally wipes out the 1000 others opposing facts.
CuckingFunt
01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
See his first comment:
Well, sure, but that's one comment out of a much longer article.
The piece is every bit as hyperbolic as one would expect of Moore. And there's lots of bluster and shaming about the relative insignificance of our daily trials and tribulations when compared to the things that the military personnel have to deal with. But I think the main thrust of the article is less that true support should be a 24/7 job that places the rest of our lives on hold, and more that there are enough things broken with our collective treatment of military persons, both while in service and afterward, that their support requires far more than a phrase.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 01:12 PM
I have no issue with people who join the military who do it because they believe they're serving our country.
The problem is that just about every military person I've ever met, just does it for the benefits/recognition/get into college/get a job etc which again I have no problem with. Everyone's trying to get by with whatever means necessary but I'm not gonna stoop and kiss their ass because they're just doing it for their own personal gain.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Only a moron would join/stay in the military to protect their country if they had crap pay and no benefits.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 01:13 PM
19,000 rapes a year? WTF? Where exactly does this number come from?
The military certainly took the instructor abuses at Lackland seriously.
In most of the briefings and commander calls we've been having lately, they said that 1 out of every 5 women have likely been raped and/or sexually assaulted.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Only a moron would join/stay in the military to protect their country if they had crap pay and no benefits.
Point is Im never gonna knock on someone for doing what they really wanna do. But I'm not gonna bend over and kiss someone's ass if they choose to do it simply for their own benefit.
Goes with anything IMHO not just military
boutons_deux
01-04-2013, 01:43 PM
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Only a moron would join/stay in the military to protect their country if they had crap pay and no benefits.
it's room and board, health care, maybe some travel, vs civilian unemployment. Not a bad deal.
And if in the Marines, they can for the rest of their life tell everybody what a bad ass mofo they are.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 02:17 PM
it's room and board, health care, maybe some travel, vs civilian unemployment. Not a bad deal.
Don't kid yourself, it's a bad deal in plenty of respects. It's shit pay and there's a high chance you get deployed to a 3rd world country no one in their right mind wants to be in. There's a reason people sign up for the military because it's their only method of financing college or because there life has amount to jack shit since graduating from high school and they need direction.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Don't kid yourself, it's a bad deal in plenty of respects. It's shit pay and there's a high chance you get deployed to a 3rd world country no one in their right mind wants to be in. There's a reason people sign up for the military because it's their only method of financing college or because there life has amount to jack shit since graduating from high school and they need direction.
Eh, it's shit pay depending on what job you do. I could probably make a lot more on the outside, but for guys who get put into career fields that don't have a good civilian world equivalent, it's not too bad. But yes, people who have better options usually exercise them. And the lifelong retirement after 20 years is a big trump card.
mingus
01-04-2013, 02:21 PM
If they ever tried to implement a draft for the War in Iraq, there would have been unprecedented public outrage in this country.
You seem to forget how hyper paranoid US was after 9/11 due to a perceived tangible nuclear threat. That wouldn't have changed. In retrospect, the war was stupid, but the misinformation that was out there at the time had even the smartest politicians in US fooled and thinking a war was necessary.
Brazil
01-04-2013, 02:28 PM
The whole I support the troops is another example of American society hypocrisy at its finest. There is nothing or very few behind the whole I support the troops slogan and attitude. Moore is right if people cared about the troops they would manifest to bring them home or to provide better health care etc... instead of that they declare proudly I support the troops to lighten their conscience, nothing else.
I personally don't support the troops, in a sense that I don't support them more than the doctors corporation, the sales men or whatever profession.
These guys chose to be soldier, they are paid to do what they are doing. A homeless former soldier has not to receive more than a homeless former waitress. I don't specifically thank a soldier for his service as I don't expect a thank you for my civilian activities.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 02:35 PM
You seem to forget how hyper paranoid US was after 9/11 due to a perceived tangible nuclear threat. That wouldn't have changed. In retrospect, the war was stupid, but the misinformation that was out there at the time had even the smartest politicians in US fooled and thinking a war was necessary.
The politicians who fabricated the misinformation and conned the country into thinking Iraq was a threat would have never done so if it meant a draft. Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld knew well ahead of time the country would eventually figure out the war was a sham, and they also knew it wouldn't stop Bush from getting a 2nd term since the only people dying in Iraq would be poor Americans who's families didn't have a voice. With a draft, they likely face enough backlash that makes Bush a one term president.
That's how neo-conservative chicken hawks work, they send poor kids who no one gives a shit about off to war. Implement a draft, and it's no longer just poor kids getting sent to war.
mingus
01-04-2013, 02:49 PM
The politicians who fabricated the misinformation and conned the country into thinking Iraq was a threat would have never done so if it meant a draft. Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld knew well ahead of time the country would eventually figure out the war was a sham, and they also knew it wouldn't stop Bush from getting a 2nd term since the only people dying in Iraq would be poor Americans who's families didn't have a voice. With a draft, they likely face enough backlash that makes Bush a one term president.
That's how neo-conservative chicken hawks work, they send poor kids who no one gives a shit about off to war. Implement a draft, and it's no longer just poor kids getting sent to war.
I am assuming you have nothing more than cynical conjecture and links to liberal websites (with more cynical conjecture) to back up part in bold. You are like the poster child for mainstream/liberal media brainwashing.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 02:57 PM
I am assuming you have nothing more than cynical conjecture and links to liberal websites (with more cynical conjecture) to back up part in bold. You are like the poster child for mainstream/liberal media brainwashing.
Only a matter of time before you'd revert back to, "You're just a leftist libtard!"
Clipper Nation
01-04-2013, 03:20 PM
You seem to forget how hyper paranoid US was after 9/11 due to a perceived tangible nuclear threat. That wouldn't have changed.
Yes, but even in that political climate, there was still widespread public anger about the Total Information Awareness program, eventually causing it to be de-funded.... I can't imagine a draft would have gone over any better, tbh....
baseline bum
01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
The last waiter I had who served me food has done more for me than everyone who fought in the Iraq War combined.
:rollin
baseline bum
01-04-2013, 03:32 PM
Now, you could always have go to Canada or Mexico to avoid it (like your pussy ass probably would have), but the fact that you never had to make that choice is in itself an act of protection of your freedom by the military.
LOL leaving to Canada to avoid killing people for oil being a pussy move. DOK, what a scared faggot you are, afraid of a few bullets from some raghead's machine gun.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 03:33 PM
LOL leaving to Canada to avoid killing people for oil being a pussy move. DOK, what a scared faggot you are, afraid of a few bullets from some raghead's machine gun.
:lol I've said it idk how many times. Being someone who's alive but considered a pussy by the spursncowboys and minguses of the world is a lot better than being something they consider a hero but comes home from Iraq in a body bag.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 03:37 PM
What's funny is they think calling me a coward because I don't wanna fight in wars (as if war is something you should want to be a part of :rollin) is a really clever insult that counteracts the truth bombs I drop about the military on reg.
baseline bum
01-04-2013, 03:38 PM
Freedom ain't free, motherfucker. While you sleep at night there are servicemen protecting Saudi Royals that behead people for witchcraft and prohibit women from driving.
Second condition isn't all that bad tbh. I know the full prohibition wouldn't fly in this country, but I would support cell-phone owning women not being allowed to drive big fucking SUVs.
resistanze
01-04-2013, 03:43 PM
Second condition isn't all that bad tbh. I know the full prohibition wouldn't fly in this country, but I would support cell-phone owning women not being allowed to drive big fucking SUVs.
:lmao This is true.
Though to be fair, 80% of the population is mentally incapable of driving. Women just add the tinge of hesitation that brings out the Saudi in all of us.
resistanze
01-04-2013, 03:44 PM
:lol I've said it idk how many times. Being someone who's alive but considered a pussy by the spursncowboys and minguses of the world is a lot better than being something they consider a hero but comes home from Iraq in a body bag.
:lol Dying thinking the government knows who you are
:lol Assembly line of mooks
:lol Would sacrifice 1000 American servicemen to protect the Saudi King
mingus
01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
LOL leaving to Canada to avoid killing people for oil being a pussy move. DOK, what a scared faggot you are, afraid of a few bullets from some raghead's machine gun.
I knew you guys would cherry pick that one comment. I just felt like calling him a pussy. Now that you have taken the bait, address the larger point that I was addressing that he made that is more important and that he still has not countered with anything more than conjecture.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 03:55 PM
I just felt like calling him a pussy.
I think you need to address this habit of judging people with your rabbi.
baseline bum
01-04-2013, 04:00 PM
I knew you guys would cherry pick that one comment. I just felt like calling him a pussy. Now that you have taken the bait, address the larger point that I was addressing that he made that is more important and that he still has not countered with anything more than conjecture.
He countered it pretty well that there would be extreme opposition to bullshit wars when there's a draft. LOL calling people pussies for not wanting to get shot over some bullshit.
mingus
01-04-2013, 04:03 PM
I think you need to address this habit of judging people with your rabbi.
You are still going to beat around the bush.
You made an unfounded statement, I pointed that out and asked for evidence for it. You ignored that and proceeded to focus on the part that is irrelevant and said jokingly--that you are a pussy. Quit playing the victim card, pussy, and address the real point.
resistanze
01-04-2013, 04:09 PM
It's too bad this country has freedom of speech . Some of you deserve to magically disappear after all the shit talking you do about this country's military. Know it alls
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 04:11 PM
You are still going to beat around the bush.
You made an unfounded statement, I pointed that out and asked for evidence for it. You ignored that and proceeded to focus on the part that is irrelevant and said jokingly--that you are a pussy. Quit playing the victim card, pussy, and address the real point.
:lol thinking I give enough of a shit to prove stuff to you that's obvious to anyone who isn't a right wing zionist. Seeing you call me a pussy because I don't want to fight in wars and risk my life is a lot funnier and entertaining.
LnGrrrR
01-04-2013, 04:30 PM
While I do think that a draft would severely hurt the public's want for war, I'm not sure if I'd like to go into combat with someone that didn't volunteer to be there. (Then again, there's a lot of people in combat that don't want to be there too, but still.)
My gut tells me that an all-volunteer force is likely more motivated and ready, but I don't have any statistics to back that feeling up.
boutons_deux
01-04-2013, 04:38 PM
"all-volunteer force is likely more motivated and ready"
the small, all-volunteer force means Americans out-source their responsibility for war-fighting.
They don't GAF about those wars because they've got no skin in the game, and they don't have to pay for them (with higher taxes), but they will pay for them with Repug/VRWC austerity reducing govt spending on public services when those wars add $Ts to the national debt.
mingus
01-04-2013, 05:26 PM
:lol thinking I give enough of a shit to prove stuff to you that's obvious to anyone who isn't a right wing zionist. Seeing you call me a pussy because I don't want to fight in wars and risk my life is a lot funnier and entertaining.
Hey, I am all for having my mind changed if you back up your claims with compelling evidence. I am not what you make me out to be. I am only asking for support. Why does asking for support turn me into a Zionist? That is intellectually dishonest and a cop out.
ChumpDumper
01-04-2013, 06:00 PM
19,000 rapes a year? WTF? Where exactly does this number come from?
The military certainly took the instructor abuses at Lackland seriously.It's an estimate extrapolated from the reported sexual assaults. Slow download, but:
http://www.sapr.mil/media/pdf/reports/Department_of_Defense_Fiscal_Year_2011_Annual_Repo rt_on_Sexual_Assault_in_the_Military.pdf
Page 28.
DarrinS
01-04-2013, 06:14 PM
A response to Moore on HuffPo (with zero comments).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-p-meehan/-response-to-michael-moore_b_2412196.html
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 07:49 PM
What's funny is they think calling me a coward because I don't wanna fight in wars (as if war is something you should want to be a part of :rollin) is a really clever insult that counteracts the truth bombs I drop about the military on reg.
That is definitely not why I call you a coward. You wouldn't even be able to hack basic and therefore not deploy- so thats a mute point.
I call you a coward because of your interest in stating things that are so over the top and despicable. For your childish "act" on the internet, and for your fear to not say anything that a first semester college student working on their political science degree wouldn't say.
Furthermore, I think anyone who thinks you making jokes about 18 year old kids dieing for their countrymen is wrong, but not saying anything are cowards, as well.
Now if you have no problem with that kind of post then fuck you! One day you'll grow up.
That's pretty amusing that you think you winning any argument with 'war for oil'; :lol @ dead soldiers; or Haliburton nonsense. It's also as equally amusing that you think you are enlightening anyone or that you have made any "truths" about the military. 12 year olds dropping random racist comments on Black Ops 2 have more wit than your posts. :lol at your own posts is classy though. Glad you got ran out of the other Forums and landed here, where your ignorant nonsense is not only allowed but accepted.
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 07:55 PM
A response to Moore on HuffPo (with zero comments).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-p-meehan/-response-to-michael-moore_b_2412196.html
There is a strong possibility that guy raped a few woman in the military.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 07:57 PM
While I do think that a draft would severely hurt the public's want for war, I'm not sure if I'd like to go into combat with someone that didn't volunteer to be there. (Then again, there's a lot of people in combat that don't want to be there too, but still.)
My gut tells me that an all-volunteer force is likely more motivated and ready, but I don't have any statistics to back that feeling up.
It would probably be like all those guys who join and from day one just are negative and can't wait to get out. Although ever since they raised the standards I don't see that as often. I wouldn't want it, unless they made units just for those kind.
That is definitely not why I call you a coward. You wouldn't even be able to hack basic and therefore not deploy- so thats a mute point.
I call you a coward because of your interest in stating things that are so over the top and despicable. For your childish "act" on the internet, and for your fear to not say anything that a first semester college student working on their political science degree wouldn't say.
Furthermore, I think anyone who thinks you making jokes about 18 year old kids dieing for their countrymen is wrong, but not saying anything are cowards, as well.
Now if you have no problem with that kind of post then fuck you! One day you'll grow up.
That's pretty amusing that you think you winning any argument with 'war for oil'; :lol @ dead soldiers; or Haliburton nonsense. It's also as equally amusing that you think you are enlightening anyone or that you have made any "truths" about the military. 12 year olds dropping random racist comments on Black Ops 2 have more wit than your posts. :lol at your own posts is classy though. Glad you got ran out of the other Forums and landed here, where your ignorant nonsense is not only allowed but accepted.
Right. Because if we've learned anything over the past 12 years, it's that being a mouth-breathing hung-ho mongoloid who loves violence, hates ragheads, and can "hack" basic is a good thing. Fuck things like reality or facts; fucking sign me up. I already got a small arsenal and I'm feelin like puttin some holes in sand n!ggers
Here: I'll go over the top: any racist piece of shit that thinks killing innocent people on some god foresaken rock is doing his country an honor or protecting it deserves to die.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:11 PM
Here: I'll go over the top: any racist piece of shit that thinks killing innocent people on some god foresaken rock is doing his country an honor or protecting it deserves to die.
What are you talking about? All the military is racist?
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Right. Because if we've learned anything over the past 12 years, it's that being a mouth-breathing hung-ho mongoloid who loves violence, hates ragheads, and can "hack" basic is a good thing. Fuck things like reality or facts; fucking sign me up. I already got a small arsenal and I'm feelin like puttin some holes in sand n!ggers
You're a moron who can only generalize. Out of all the military who is on this forum: who likes violence? Who hates ragheads?
What are you talking about? All the military is racist?
No. Read better.
You're a moron who can only generalize. Out of all the military who is on this forum: who likes violence? Who hates ragheads?
You're right. Pacifists join the military. Pacificists who don't get a rise out of abusing middle easterners.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:17 PM
Here: I'll go over the top: any racist piece of shit that thinks killing innocent people on some god foresaken rock is doing his country an honor or protecting it deserves to die.
:lol going over the top is making disgraceful generalization about (on average) 18-23 year olds ON THE INTERNET. Way to take a moral courageous stand! You're pure class.
What else is over the top? Anyone who doesn't believe gay-marriage should be legal deserves to die? People who don't believe a third of what they earn should be forcibly taken from them?
You can only think like my open minded self. Otherwise you should die!
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:18 PM
You're right. Pacifists join the military. Pacificists who don't get a rise out of abusing middle easterners.
You have no idea what you're talking about except to try and void my comment by generalizing. So who on this forum likes violence?
NoiNoiPinoy
01-04-2013, 08:18 PM
Don't kid yourself, it's a bad deal in plenty of respects. It's shit pay and there's a high chance you get deployed to a 3rd world country no one in their right mind wants to be in. There's a reason people sign up for the military because it's their only method of financing college or because there life has amount to jack shit since graduating from high school and they need direction.
Its actually not a bad deal at all if you're a health professional. You can get a full ride with a decent stipend even at private professional colleges. With the bonuses over regular officers, its easily competitive vs. civilian pay (for newbie dentists on the first contract at least). But I agree, I wouldn't have ever joined as an enlisted member. Side note - if you're lucky you can get some free surgery in the military though, I.e. Lasik eye surgery or Orthognathic surgery if you have an ugly overbite (that can run up to 30k)
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:19 PM
No. Read better.
Write better. Either that or get better at your simplifying. Who was that post a description of?
:lol going over the top is making disgraceful generalization about (on average) 18-23 year olds ON THE INTERNET. Way to take a moral courageous stand! You're pure class.
What else is over the top? Anyone who doesn't believe gay-marriage should be legal deserves to die? People who don't believe a third of what they earn should be forcibly taken from them?
You can only think like my open minded self. Otherwise you should die!
I don't give a shit about morals or class. Those assholes deserve to die. You keep fighting the good fight buddy, standing up for all those 18-23 year olds on the Internet will make a difference. Please tell me your typing this while draped in an American flag with a bald eagle on your shoulder.
Write better. Either that or get better at your simplifying. Who was that post a description of?
What I wrote was fine. Try reading it again and see if you're at all close, k?
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 08:20 PM
Its actually not a bad deal at all if you're a health professional. You can get a full ride with a decent stipend even at private professional colleges. With the bonuses over regular officers, its easily competitive vs. civilian pay (for newbie dentists on the first contract at least). But I agree, I wouldn't have ever joined as an enlisted member. Side note - if you're lucky you can get some free surgery in the military though, I.e. Lasik eye surgery or Orthognathic surgery if you have an ugly overbite (that can run up to 30k)
There is no better job than a Non Commissioned Officer! More rewarding than anything I have ever or will ever do.
You have no idea what you're talking about except to try and void my comment by generalizing. So who on this forum likes violence?
Again, read better.
Did you flunk out of school? Would no college take you? Is that why you joined the military?
You have no idea what you're talking about except to try and void my comment by generalizing. So who on this forum likes violence?
Holy shit, you're approaching Blake like levels of idiocy.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 09:06 PM
Again, read better.
Did you flunk out of school? Would no college take you? Is that why you joined the military?
Wow...Did you flunk school? What is this AOL and are we in the 90's? What's next-A/S/L?
I figured since your post was to communicate your moronic simplification. I guess not.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 09:11 PM
Holy shit, you're approaching Blake like levels of idiocy.
:lol. Pure class. Idk what that means but I'm assuming he doesn't agree with you. So you are saying that all military are racist? Are you speaking of a specific person you want dead that meants your definition?
Also who is violent from the military who posts here?
Racist, people who joined the military for violence should die? By whom? Anybody as long as they die? People who just want to kill Americans, regardless of whom they are? Americans should kill these kinds of people? People like you would kill them?
So...Someone who joins the military and has racist thoughts? has violent thoughts? Just thoughts, or actions on these thoughts?
Bill_Brasky
01-04-2013, 09:12 PM
This thread was hilarious.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:17 PM
Right. Because if we've learned anything over the past 12 years, it's that being a mouth-breathing hung-ho mongoloid who loves violence, hates ragheads, and can "hack" basic is a good thing. Fuck things like reality or facts; fucking sign me up. I already got a small arsenal and I'm feelin like puttin some holes in sand n!ggers
:lmao:lmao:lmao best post in this thread
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:18 PM
That is definitely not why I call you a coward. You wouldn't even be able to hack basic and therefore not deploy- so thats a mute point.
I call you a coward because of your interest in stating things that are so over the top and despicable. For your childish "act" on the internet, and for your fear to not say anything that a first semester college student working on their political science degree wouldn't say.
Furthermore, I think anyone who thinks you making jokes about 18 year old kids dieing for their countrymen is wrong, but not saying anything are cowards, as well.
Now if you have no problem with that kind of post then fuck you! One day you'll grow up.
That's pretty amusing that you think you winning any argument with 'war for oil'; :lol @ dead soldiers; or Haliburton nonsense. It's also as equally amusing that you think you are enlightening anyone or that you have made any "truths" about the military. 12 year olds dropping random racist comments on Black Ops 2 have more wit than your posts. :lol at your own posts is classy though. Glad you got ran out of the other Forums and landed here, where your ignorant nonsense is not only allowed but accepted.
tl;dr
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:27 PM
And now I present to everyone Marine David Motari throwing a puppy off a cliff for his country:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/027/725/Dinner_time_for_kraken_small_1_.gif
ElNono
01-04-2013, 09:32 PM
And now I present to everyone Marine David Motari throwing a puppy off a cliff for his country:
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/027/725/Dinner_time_for_kraken_small_1_.gif
:cry semper fi :cry
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 09:34 PM
:cry semper fi :cry
:cry United States Marines :cry
:cry cream of the fuckin crop :cry
:cry that puppy must have been carrying more than 3 ounces of fluid :cry
ElNono
01-04-2013, 09:44 PM
Argentina used to have a draft way back when I was 18... I lucked out in the draft lottery and didn't have to enlist. The whole thing obviously sucked for everyone that did had to go in.
I don't really see the US being in a position where they would need to draft though. There's simply enough desperate wetbacks or rambo-wannabes to send as cannon fodder.
HomerFan092120
01-04-2013, 09:48 PM
Freedom ain't free....
THERE'S A HEFTY FUCKING FEE!!!
Not fighting in the war=pussy, 'murica's Team, Jason Witten no helmet, U-S-A chant at the Phillies Game etc
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U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
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spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 10:04 PM
What does a marine throwing a puppy off a cliff have to do with the overall character and morals of the US Military? And this is why you are a coward. And Why your views mean absolutely nothing to anyone except yourself. I bet you reread your posts thinking how clever it is. It's funny how illogical all of your statements I've read of yours are.
I wonder how many college kids (living with mommy), dreaming of being an accountant, have killed a puppy-while being targeted for death by a large contingency of heavily armed men.
GoodOdor
01-04-2013, 10:26 PM
What does a marine throwing a puppy off a cliff have to do with the overall character and morals of the US Military? And this is why you are a coward. And Why your views mean absolutely nothing to anyone except yourself. I bet you reread your posts thinking how clever it is. It's funny how illogical all of your statements I've read of yours are.
I wonder how many college kids (living with mommy), dreaming of being an accountant, have killed a puppy-while being targeted for death by a large contingency of heavily armed men.
Didn't you say earlier in the thread that you had a degree?:lol
GoodOdor
01-04-2013, 10:29 PM
The combat-arms side is a completely different beast than the others. I had my degree and had a better paying job before I joined.
But I agree with your point that most military couldn't give a shit less about what cowards like DOK think or acknowledge.
I can't wait to here what "degree" you had before enlisting:lol
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 10:39 PM
spursncowboys claims to have an accounting degree yet he makes fun of accounting every chance he gets :lol
:lol thinking I live with my mom
:lol more straw grasping about me
:lol my views clearly mean nothing to you and that's why you're so butthurt about them
:lol calling me a coward for not throwing puppies off a cliff
:madrun it takes a real man to murder little puppies :madrun
In most of the briefings and commander calls we've been having lately, they said that 1 out of every 5 women have likely been raped and/or sexually assaulted.
Sounds like you guys still have a lot of work to do, that's only 20%, slackers.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 10:44 PM
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/027/725/Dinner_time_for_kraken_small_1_.gif
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baseline bum
01-04-2013, 10:55 PM
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/027/725/Dinner_time_for_kraken_small_1_.gif
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Was snc the one who tried to justify that back in the day by complaining about how many dogs there were in Iraq?
Th'Pusher
01-04-2013, 10:58 PM
Sounds like you guys still have a lot of work to do, that's only 20%, slackers.
Rape and guns and butch Internet personas are top-grade.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:12 PM
lol. Got the whole group to help you... Must be fun to use hyperbole for every meaning of your views. I remember when I was a teenager.
So did you get me with all your truth in this one too?
Did your facts of the military surpass everyones intelligence?
The maturity and mental fortitude of an 18 year old who joined the military compared to yourself... It's going to be funny when you finally quit your career college part of your life and start applying for jobs. Then get beat out by a veteran. Then you can come back on here and hide behind a forum account making jokes about dead veterans. All while justifying it with a picture of a deployed marine throwing a puppy off a cliff.
log in/log out goods
01-04-2013, 11:17 PM
lol. Got the whole group to help you... Must be fun to use hyperbole for every meaning of your views. I remember when I was a teenager.
So did you get me with all your truth in this one too?
Did your facts of the military surpass everyones intelligence?
The maturity and mental fortitude of an 18 year old who joined the military compared to yourself... It's going to be funny when you finally quit your career college part of your life and start applying for jobs. Then get beat out by a veteran. Then you can come back on here and hide behind a forum account making jokes about dead veterans. All while justifying it with a picture of a deployed marine throwing a puppy off a cliff.
I don't know the youngster you're referring to but I don't think that he'll be getting beat out by somebody who needs someone to tell him when to piss, eat, and murder puppies.
leemajors
01-04-2013, 11:17 PM
lol. Got the whole group to help you... Must be fun to use hyperbole for every meaning of your views. I remember when I was a teenager.
So did you get me with all your truth in this one too?
Did your facts of the military surpass everyones intelligence?
The maturity and mental fortitude of an 18 year old who joined the military compared to yourself... It's going to be funny when you finally quit your career college part of your life and start applying for jobs. Then get beat out by a veteran. Then you can come back on here and hide behind a forum account making jokes about dead veterans. All while justifying it with a picture of a deployed marine throwing a puppy off a cliff.
He's in your head bad. Took up residence there it sounds like.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:19 PM
Was snc the one who tried to justify that back in the day by complaining about how many dogs there were in Iraq?
:lmao yes it was
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:20 PM
It's going to be funny when you finally quit your career college part of your life and start applying for jobs. Then get beat out by a veteran.
This couldn't be funnier because I got a full time offer literally today from a bulge bracket investment bank.
Keep convincing yourself you'll get the same jobs I get :lmao
Axe Murderer
01-04-2013, 11:23 PM
lol. Got the whole group to help you... Must be fun to use hyperbole for every meaning of your views. I remember when I was a teenager.
So did you get me with all your truth in this one too?
Did your facts of the military surpass everyones intelligence?
The maturity and mental fortitude of an 18 year old who joined the military compared to yourself... It's going to be funny when you finally quit your career college part of your life and start applying for jobs. Then get beat out by a veteran. Then you can come back on here and hide behind a forum account making jokes about dead veterans. All while justifying it with a picture of a deployed marine throwing a puppy off a cliff.
Hey can you give me your wife's #?
She's gonna be looking for a real man while you're overseas gunning down towelheads
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:33 PM
This couldn't be funnier because I got a full time offer literally today from a bulge bracket investment bank.
Keep convincing yourself you'll get the same jobs I get :lmao
:lol. Riiiiight.
:lmao lieing on a forum
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:34 PM
I don't know the youngster you're referring to but I don't think that he'll be getting beat out by somebody who needs someone to tell him when to piss, eat, and murder puppies.
Wrong troll?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:34 PM
:lol. Riiiiight.
:lmao lieing on a forum
:lmao thinking I'm lying
:lol guess the military forgot to teach you how to spell lying.
I'll get the official offer in the mail in a few days. Do you want to bet on whether or not I'm lying?
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:34 PM
Hey can you give me your wife's #?
She's gonna be looking for a real man while you're overseas gunning down towelheads
Moral argument what?
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:36 PM
Men: remember when you got all your online friends to gang up with useless posts? Me either.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:37 PM
So are you gonna put money on the assertion that I'm lying?
if spursncowboys doesn't take the bet, he's a pussy
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:42 PM
Here's how the bet would work: I'll send a copy of the offer to Kori or timvp since I don't want a military loose cannon with the mental stability of a meth addict to know my real name, and then they can decide the winner of the bet. They know my real name and they wouldn't lie for me, so the bet would be perfectly fair.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:44 PM
Point is. If you think military personnel are less intelligent for joining-fuck you
If you make comical jokes about military dieing at war-fuck you
If you are ok with someone doing the two previous points- fuck you
You are a coward
Not for deciding you don't want to join.
For putting down people you don't know simply for joining when their country is at war.
ha ha!
spursncowboys got out of that situation faster than T Park at a salad bar i saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiddddddddddddddd dddd
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:46 PM
Stop being a coward and take my bet. You name the wager since this'll be the easiest money I've ever made.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:48 PM
Here's how the bet would work: I'll send a copy of the offer to Kori or timvp since I don't want a military loose cannon with the mental stability of a meth addict to know my real name, and then they can decide the winner of the bet. They know my real name and they wouldn't lie for me, so the bet would be perfectly fair.
:lmao
I was only joking that you were lieing. I couldn't care less. But you trying to prove it so bad makes me think you really are full of shit. :toast pure class as always! The "bank" is really lucky to have you and your eight year Bachelor Degree with Minor in Middle-Earth Philosophy
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:51 PM
No Bump. Don't think I'm a pussy. What will it take for me to change your mind? Your impression on my spurstalk account means alot to me!
:lmao You guys really are immature kids.
:lol betting on you getting a job offer. I'm going to stay awake all night wondering now.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:52 PM
:lmao
I was only joking that you were lieing. I couldn't care less. But you trying to prove it so bad makes me think you really are full of shit. :toast pure class as always! The "bank" is really lucky to have you and your eight year Bachelor Degree with Minor in Middle-Earth Philosophy
:lmao you're so convinced I'm lying (why does the military not teach you how to spell lying properly?) yet you're refusing to bet on it.
:lmao "eight year Bachelor Degree". I took 18 units last semester and I'm taking 22 units this semester so I'll graduate with 147 units after 4.5 years in school (and anyone with a background in accounting knows you need 150 to get a CPA so those extra units weren't unnecessary). It's clear I'm in your head the way you love to make stuff up about me. This is too fuckin funny.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:54 PM
since I don't want [SNC]to know my real name Very smart.
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:55 PM
:lmao you're so convinced I'm lying (why does the military not teach you how to spell lying properly?) yet you're refusing to bet on it.
:lmao "eight year Bachelor Degree". I took 18 units last semester and I'm taking 22 units this semester so I'll graduate with 147 units after 4.5 years in school (and anyone with a background in accounting knows you need 150 to get a CPA so those extra units weren't unnecessary). It's clear I'm in your head the way you love to make stuff up about me. This is too fuckin funny. Dude I really don't care about anything in your life. I'm clearly talking shit. Stop being so insecure.
Coward.
:lol having to prove something to a stranger
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:56 PM
Dude I really don't care about anything in your life.
Are you sure, you seem very concerned about my college records :lmao
spursncowboys
01-04-2013, 11:58 PM
Funny part is this is probably the highlight of your day. Wasting time on a forum.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-04-2013, 11:59 PM
No, the highlight of my day was receiving an offer from a bulge bracket investment bank :lol
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 12:02 AM
alleged offer
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 12:03 AM
I've offered to bet money on the legitimacy of the offer. You keep choosing to decline the bet, even though Kori/timvp would decide the winner, and even though you seem sure I'm making it up.
baseline bum
01-05-2013, 12:04 AM
if spursncowboys doesn't take the bet, he's a pussy
:cry Truth, he might as well move to Canada :cry
Jacob1983
01-05-2013, 01:04 AM
Some of you are mean as Hell when it comes to respecting veterans and active servicemen. I agree that America has a hypocritical view on supporting the troops in the sense that it's more just saying you support them than actually supporting them by giving donations of your money and time to help them. However, that does not mean you should just shit on veterans and the military in general. They do a lot of good. They do tasks and a job that most human beings can't and refuse to do. Give them respect that they have earned and deserve. My granpda served in the Pacific during WWII. Do you think I ever went to up to him and asked him why he killed Japanese people? That's just rude and completely inappropriate.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:08 AM
Your grandpa killed Japanese people because Japan attacked Americans on American soil in what was an act of war. Iraq never committed any act of aggression towards America and wasn't a threat to, so comparing Japan to Iraq is pretty fuckin stupid.
baseline bum
01-05-2013, 01:17 AM
Not to mention Japan invading Alaska.
Jacob1983
01-05-2013, 01:27 AM
You may think in your head that the war in Iraq was wrong and not necessary but you just don't go up to veterans and tell them that shit. How do you think that makes them feel? You're basically calling them a piece of shit. You also make it sound like every soldier that was in Iraq was bad and killed innocent unarmed people.
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:31 AM
They don't. They do it online behind fake names. This right here is the poster-boy for troll.
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:34 AM
:lmao
Every bulge bracket investment bank has huge veteran hiring programs for Supervisor positions. Good luck!
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:34 AM
You may think in your head that the war in Iraq was wrong and not necessary but you just don't go up to veterans and tell them that shit.
Why not? It's the truth. What's really disrespectful is sugar coating things and feeding them fairy tales about all the good they did in Iraq hoping they'll eat it up.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:35 AM
:lmao
Every bulge bracket investment bank has huge veteran hiring programs for Supervisor positions. Good luck!
But I didn't get an offer and I just made that up, right?
:lol veteran hiring programs
:lol affirmative action for veterans
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:35 AM
:lmao Iraqis are better off with Saddam?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:37 AM
:lmao Iraqis are better off with Saddam?
Whether or not they are is a different issue. I'm not sure how improving the life of Iraqis (which is debatable seeing that over 100,000 Iraqis died) does anything to preserve my freedom or deserve my gratitude.
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:42 AM
But I didn't get an offer and I just made that up, right?
:lol veteran hiring programs
:lol affirmative action for veterans
:lmao affirmative action. No companies like leaders who can handle pressure.
So did the front desk person at West ask if you were ex military? I bet they did.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:44 AM
:lmao affirmative action. No companies like leaders who can handle pressure.
So did the front desk person at West ask if you were ex military? I bet they did.
at West? wtf are you talking about?
And there was a question asking if I was affiliated with any of the following programs, one of which was the US military, when I filled out the application. The other programs were shit like Teach for America that I was offered to do upon graduation.
Do you have any more inquiries about my personal life you care so little about :lmao
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:47 AM
Why not? It's the truth. What's really disrespectful is sugar coating things and feeding them fairy tales about all the good they did in Iraq hoping they'll eat it up.Such as getting rid of Saddam...
Whether or not they are is a different issue. I'm not sure how improving the life of Iraqis (which is debatable seeing that over 100,000 Iraqis died) does anything to preserve my freedom or deserve my gratitude. :lol idiot
US military captured Saddam
Iraq is better off without Saddam
US military made Iraq better off
:lmao clown
I think killing 100K of them opened a lot of job opportunities for others. In the long run it will be seen as one of the most significant accomplishments in the history of this country. Do you really want to keep shooting the same Russian bad guys? It's about time we get some decent middle eastern bad guys in our games.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:52 AM
Such as getting rid of Saddam...
:lol idiot
US military captured Saddam
Iraq is better off without Saddam
US military made Iraq better off
:lmao clown
:lol thinking the US military killing 100k Iraqis was good for them
:lol their rotting corpses tell a different tail
:lol admitting the war in Iraq did nothing for the US
Wild Cobra
01-05-2013, 02:10 AM
Why not? It's the truth. What's really disrespectful is sugar coating things and feeding them fairy tales about all the good they did in Iraq hoping they'll eat it up.
Are you saying your opinion is the truth?
Ok...
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 10:04 AM
Are you saying your opinion is the truth?
Ok...
How did the soldiers in Iraq help the American people? Be specific. Until someone can explain to me how the war in Iraq made America better my opinion is right.
Thank you to all the men and women who have served in Iraq and who are currently serving in Iraq. Your dedication, your bravery, your courage, has made America safer and has helped to stand up democracy in Iraq..."
Aug. 26, 2010 Barack Obama (http://2012election.procon.org/view.source.election.php?sourceID=11134)
ElNono
01-05-2013, 12:18 PM
Barry full of shit? No surprises there...
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 12:38 PM
Thank you to all the men and women who have served in Iraq and who are currently serving in Iraq. Your dedication, your bravery, your courage, has made America safer and has helped to stand up democracy in Iraq..."
Aug. 26, 2010 Barack Obama (http://2012election.procon.org/view.source.election.php?sourceID=11134)
Why do people quote Obama as if that matters to me? I didn't vote for Obama the last time around largely because his foreign policy is a lot different than I thought it would be. I've criticized him countless times for how long it took him to get out of Iraq and for being an idealist who preaches to the American people about spreading Democracy through the middle east.
Countries like Iraq and Libya, as well as most other middle eastern countries, will never be Democracies until the presence of Islam becomes a fraction of what it is today, which will never happen when Islamic leaders can use American/Israeli aggression in the middle east as a means to unify people behind Islam. Hussein and Gadaffi had Iraq and Libya more modernized and advanced than any Islamic theocracy will ever be.
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:02 PM
:lol thinking the US military killing 100k Iraqis was good for them
:lol their rotting corpses tell a different tail
:lol admitting the war in Iraq did nothing for the US
:lmao using propaganda statistics to blend your asinine comment with reality
:lmao admitting that the US Military made Iraqi's lives and future better off
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:03 PM
:lol acting like you care about anybody's rotting corpse
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 01:14 PM
Why do people quote Obama as if that matters to me? I didn't vote for Obama the last time around largely because his foreign policy is a lot different than I thought it would be. I've criticized him countless times for how long it took him to get out of Iraq and for being an idealist who preaches to the American people about spreading Democracy through the middle east.
Countries like Iraq and Libya, as well as most other middle eastern countries, will never be Democracies until the presence of Islam becomes a fraction of what it is today, which will never happen when Islamic leaders can use American/Israeli aggression in the middle east as a means to unify people behind Islam. Hussein and Gadaffi had Iraq and Libya more modernized and advanced than any Islamic theocracy will ever be.
Holy shit! :lmao
I guess you forgot to check up on your professors facts.
Hussein inherited iraq when it was modernized and then pissed it away, like most socialist dictators.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:30 PM
:lol acting like you care about anybody's rotting corpse
I don't and never implied I did. I just think you have an odd definition of "making the lives of Iraqis better" when the War in Iraq caused the death of over 100,000 Iraqis.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 01:31 PM
Holy shit! :lmao
I guess you forgot to check up on your professors facts.
Hussein inherited iraq when it was modernized and then pissed it away, like most socialist dictators.
Did you learn this at the same place that taught you how to add "ing" to words that end in "ie"
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 02:36 PM
I don't and never implied I did. I just think you have an odd definition of "making the lives of Iraqis better" when the War in Iraq caused the death of over 100,000 Iraqis.
How many did Saddam kill?
How many of those Iraqis were killed by terrorists? How many from Pro-Saddam and Baath Party sympothizers (who's SOP were mass killing attacks)?
How many Iraqi's deaths are worth their ability to vote for their government representatives?
For someone who seems to not care about it since it has not impacted your life whatsoever, you are implying an empathetic factor of 100,000+ Iraqis and one puppy. Whatever makes your ignorant position, regardless of the lack of morals.
spursncowboys
01-05-2013, 02:48 PM
Did you learn this at the same place that taught you how to add "ing" to words that end in "ie"
The point where you have no points to build on your jargon-so you go for grammar mistakes.
Why do people quote Obama as if that matters to me? I didn't vote for Obama the last time around largely because his foreign policy is a lot different than I thought it would be. I've criticized him countless times for how long it took him to get out of Iraq and for being an idealist who preaches to the American people about spreading Democracy through the middle east.
Countries like Iraq and Libya, as well as most other middle eastern countries, will never be Democracies until the presence of Islam becomes a fraction of what it is today, which will never happen when Islamic leaders can use American/Israeli aggression in the middle east as a means to unify people behind Islam. Hussein and Gadaffi had Iraq and Libya more modernized and advanced than any Islamic theocracy will ever be.
Because the concept of "safer" is a condition that's only observable if you knew how unsafe we were before. No one here can prove that either way, so I just used the statements of a president who didn't make the decision to invade Iraq. I figure he gets national security briefings daily and since none of us do, I pretty much have to take his word for it.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 07:50 PM
No one here can prove that either way
Agreed, and the burden of proof rests on the person arguing that the War in Iraq actually did make us safer. Until someone proves it, I'm assuming the null hypothesis.
so I just used the statements of a president who didn't make the decision to invade Iraq. I figure he gets national security briefings daily and since none of us do, I pretty much have to take his word for it.
I think you're being deliberately naive now.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 07:54 PM
How many did Saddam kill?
How many of those Iraqis were killed by terrorists? How many from Pro-Saddam and Baath Party sympothizers (who's SOP were mass killing attacks)?
How many Iraqi's deaths are worth their ability to vote for their government representatives?
For someone who seems to not care about it since it has not impacted your life whatsoever, you are implying an empathetic factor of 100,000+ Iraqis and one puppy. Whatever makes your ignorant position, regardless of the lack of morals.
I don't care about the lives of Iraqis (I'm willing to bet you really don't either and you're just acting like it for the sake of argument). I'm only pointing out the 100,000+ deaths as a counter to your assertion the war improved the lives of Iraqis. It obviously DIDN'T improve the lives of those 100,000+ Iraqis.
As far as how many Iraqi deaths are worth their ability to vote, that's not even remotely something that should be up to American politicians to decide, and the fact you seem to think it is personifies neo-conservative narcissism.
Agreed, and the burden of proof rests on the person arguing that the War in Iraq actually did make us safer. Until someone proves it, I'm assuming the null hypothesis.
I think you're being deliberately naive now.
For argument's sake, since no one here can prove or disprove "safer", we have to rely on another source. If that source said we are no safer today than before the invasion, I am sure many here would be posting that as evidence.
Regardless, the only evidence we have, the words of the president, indicate that we are safer. Since it's been stated by our highest office, the burden of proof would be those who disagree since we cannot get the POTUS to sign up here.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 07:55 PM
The point where you have no points to build on your jargon-so you go for grammar mistakes.
I do, there are plenty of positive things Saddam did for Iraq (like how affordable he made education). I'm just not going to list them knowing you're brainwashed and will ignore them.
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 07:58 PM
For argument's sake, since no one here can prove or disprove "safer", we have to rely on another source. If that source said we are no safer today than before the invasion, I am sure many here would be posting that as evidence.
This is an appeal to authority if I've ever seen one. You have no actual argument regarding how the war in Iraq made America safer, and knowing that the burden of proof rests on your side of the argument, you're saying "Well Obama said it did!" which is a logical fallacy.
It's no different than creationists saying, "Our president believes in god!" without providing any argument as to why god exists.
This is an appeal to authority if I've ever seen one.
Actually it's not. If the president says "we're safer", and he did, how is it an appeal to authority if neither you nor I have any other ability to assess our safety? He says we're safer, you say you don't believe it. You don't have a legit reason for not believing it, you just shift the burden of proof to those who believe the president. Saddam conspired to kill an ex president. He attacked our allies. He repeatedly violated cease fire agreements and pissed on the UN Resolutions that gave him other options. Saddam made agreements that kept us out of Iraq in the 1st place. The war in Iraq was a continuation of Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
You have no actual argument regarding how the war in Iraq made America safer, and knowing that the burden of proof rests on your side of the argument, you're saying "Well Obama said it did!" which is a logical fallacy.
If I had the CIA and national security data he has, I could make a better assessment. I don't, neither do you. If there can be no proof for or against, why challenge someone to prove something they believe to be true?
It's no different than creationists saying, "Our president believes in god!" without providing any argument as to why god exists.
It's very different. The president doesn't have any god briefings that would put him any closer to knowing than anyone else is.
Do you think anyone in the world knows if the US is safer today than it was before the invasion?
DUNCANownsKOBE
01-05-2013, 09:10 PM
That response confirms you're arguing a really stupid point and seeing how long I'll indulge it. Good job, not sure why I took the argument that Obama's sanctimonious military dicksucking means the war in Iraq made us safer so seriously. Pretty stupid on my part.
This came up in another thread long ago. I remember something about DOK "not being thankful for your service" if you were in the military. It's kind of his hot button issue, and his position seems to be pretty firm.
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