Who's the biggest reason for the Lakers demise?

[StrengthAndHonor]

Dwight Howard and his karma?
Kobe's selfishness?
D'antanaa's system?
Pau Gasol's tendinitis?
Jim Buss and his "decisions"

[djohn2oo8]

The Lakers' demise didn't just start this season. Kobe obviously.

[JamStone]

For this season at least, I really don't see how people can criticize Kobe. Okay, he's not the best leader or teammate. And he can be selfish when it comes to taking too many shots. But not only has he played well this season, he's pretty much the only Laker that has consistently brought it every game. Say what you want about Kobe, you can't question his desire to win, his work ethic and preparation, or him being afraid of the moment or feeling the pressure of a big moment. He may be part of the problem in many ways, but with his play this season, I don't think people can really say he's the main reason for their poor play. If they do, they are going into the psychology of how he has emotionally affected guys like Pau and Dwight. But that also takes away blame from those two guys being emo bitches and not fighting through it and still performing at a high level.

The biggest reason to me might be the cursory moves Mitch made. They needed to get a better back-up SF for Artest. They needed better and more three point shooting. When Meeks has been good, the Lakers have generally played much better. But if he's off, where do the Lakers get three point shooting, especially from secondary and bench players? I thought Jamison would play much better.

Also, not right at the top of the list, but higher than some might acknowledge is Dwight's free throw shooting. It was made a big point of emphasis earlier in the season, but I don't think it gets talked about as much recently, especially since he started shooting it better for a stretch of games. But by my count, I see 5-6 Lakers losses that could have easily been wins if Dwight made more of his free throws. And while it wouldn't make them world beaters or anything, 20-12 looks a hell of a lot different than 15-17.

[DPG21920]

Kobe's defensive decline also has a lot to do with it. He and Nash are one of the worst defensive backcourts for "contenders" in the NBA.

[Clipper Nation]

Kobe... just because he's having a fluke efficient season doesn't mean he isn't selfish and preventing his teammates from getting into their own rhythm.... he's also managed to somehow get worse on defense as well, which cancels out his improved efficiency in my book....

And when you announce that it's "still your team" during the offseason and then put up an embarrassing under .500 record this far into the season, it's on you.... when you get a coach fired after only a couple of games and then continue to underachieve, it's on you....

[Richie]

D'Antoni IMO, he isn't playing this team to their strengths. However, to do that Kobe would get way, way less touches and we all know D'Antoni doesn't have the authority to do that to the Mamba.

More Nash in the pick n' roll with Gasol/Howard, less iso for Kobe.

D'Antoni only knows how to play one way. Poor coaching from him, but even if Pop was there we all know Kobe wouldn't accept being the 3rd option on offence.

[Baron Davιs]

1a. Team Defense/Chemistry
1b. Pau Gasol
1c. Kobe Bryant
2. Coaching

I guess you can say 1a and 2 are correlated, but 1a has been a problem long before Dantoni arrived.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if we say the rapist, then the wankers will say we hating

[Malik Hairston]

Kobe's offense isn't one of the major problems, tbh, and I'm widely known as one of the biggest Kobe haters on the Internet..

1. Defense..Lakers' defensive success was entirely dependent on Howard's impact..when healthy, Howard is easily the best defensive player in the NBA..his health has hindered his impact, thus preventing LA's defense from covering the defensive deficiencies of Nash, Kobe, Gasol and the majority of their roster..LA's offense has not had any problems this year, outside of turnovers early in the season..

2. Howard's health..he is clearly limited..NBA fans seem to ignorantly ignore Howard's overall impact the last 5 years..he led a flawed roster to the Finals, he led Orlando to a perennial elite defensive ranking(despite a roster that was full of atrocious defensive players), his offense had progressed nicely(outside of his passing)..

A healthy Howard + Kobe would have the Lakers around the top 5, regardless of any other major flaws..

3. Pau Gasol..he clearly does not give a shit, and/or he's clearly limited by his injuries..succeeding with two centers on the court is difficult in today's league, regardless of ability, but it is made virtually impossible when one of the bigs no longer possesses mobility to guard opposing players..Gasol at the 4 has never been the Lakers strength, why would that change at this point, with a lesser version of Pau?..

For those blaming the system, it doesn't help that Gasol is shooting long jump shots and 3s, but Pau is actually shooting 30% in post-up situations..atrocious..

4. Lack of depth..Gasol's decline is even more important due to LA's lack of options..the rest of their team is terrible and they lack creators..

[TDMVPDPOY]

a healthy or broke back d12 makes no difference, he still posts his usual 20 15 meaningless stat games....

[StrengthAndHonor]

My take

1. Gasol

When he plays well, the Lakers win. Simple as that. Kobe could have one of those 8/24 nights but as long as Gasol starts getting his 20 points and 10 boards game (55% shooting) the Lakers are simply unstoppable. Gasol's body language says it all. Its not even how D'Antoni is utilizing him, its just him not having anymore basketball mojo left at this point of his career.


2. Howard

Dwight has been exposed. He gets stripped far too many times, has no go-to offensive move and his lack of ability to read situations (such as understand when "NOT" to foul) has been atrocious. I feel like this has been one of the biggest reasons why that team is not in sync.



3. Mike D

I understand he doesn't truly prioritize defense but his communication and leadership has been aweful. Everytime you give players like Jodie Meeks, MWP and Jamison (when he was playing) green light to shoot, then you'll have a problem. He needs to establish a pecking order with that team. Jodie Meeks and MWP should not be driving recklessly to the lane disregarding the post game. Even Nash is not being used properly. He has become a Derek Fisher type of player under this team. Unacceptable.


4. Kobe

Kobe's amazing this year but watching him for the past month or so, I'd say his stats are misleading. He'll score 30+ on high efficiency but I think he sucks the life out of this team everytime he goes on that shooting binge mainly Howard who looks really uneasy next to Kobe (When Kobe shoots at the foul line, Dwight doesn't even look at Kobe, at all). Kobe brought Nash to the Lakers, its time for his ego to allow Nash to run the offense more.

[024]

kobe has had a good individual season but the blame ultimately rests on him. first, his defense is terrible. then, his "kobe eats first" mentality throws everyone else's rhythm off. he doesn't even like to play the pick and roll to get at least one other player involved. it's just 1v5 ball and then he gets mad when he finally passes the ball but his teammate misses the shot because he hasn't touched the ball in ages. he has two other surefire hall of famers on his team, one who is even in his prime (yes, dwight is already a lock for the HOF), and another fringe HOF in gasol. kobe may have gotten away with "well his teammates sucked" excuse when the kobe-led lakers sucked balls 2005-2007, but this is completely inexcusable now.

there's a reason why lebron doesn't lead the league in scoring even though he could easily score 30+ points every night. he understands his team needs to be involved to win. this is the same reason why paul pierce's shot attempts declined dramatically when KG and ray allen joined him in their 2008 championship season. or why duncan doesn't score 25+ points a game even though he could if he just demanded the ball.

[StrengthAndHonor]

there's a reason why lebron doesn't lead the league in scoring even though he could easily score 30+ points every night. he understands his team needs to be involved to win. this is the same reason why paul pierce's shot attempts declined dramatically when KG and ray allen joined him in their 2008 championship season. or why duncan doesn't score 25+ points a game even though he could if he just demanded the ball.

So true. Kobe would rather lose his way than win in others system.

[Baseline]

Kobe... just because he's having a fluke efficient season doesn't mean he isn't selfish and preventing his teammates from getting into their own rhythm.... he's also managed to somehow get worse on defense as well, which cancels out his improved efficiency in my book....

And when you announce that it's "still your team" during the offseason and then put up an embarrassing under .500 record this far into the season, it's on you.... when you get a coach fired after only a couple of games and then continue to underachieve, it's on you....

Exactly - it's clearly on Bryant, because he stated it's still "his" team, and he's proving that by the astonishing number of shots he's taking. And he has to know that this imbalance is what is causing the disunity. But of ocurse, he doesn't care that's he's a selfish player, and he never has.

Case in point. Dwight Howard said this after the Lakers-Clippers game on Friday. "Look at the difference between our team and theirs," Howard said. "They just play together. They share the ball. Everybody's excited when something happens. We have to be like that to be a great team."

Okay, nobody ever uses the word "share" when it comes to Bryant. Unless you're talking about blame, which he gladly shares. In fact, he's the all-time NBA leader in Finger Pointing.

To me, the problem is Bryant - but the root of the problem is that Laker management allows Bryant to lord over the team, the offense, the shot distribution - they allow him to "get his" even if it's to the team's detrement. Bryant arguably has the two most dominant bigs in the league ON HIS TEAM, yet he'd rather keep them in a state of being permanently pissed off just prove that it's still "his" team. All Bryant has to do is feed the bigs. But he'll never do it. He never has, and the Lakers will never be champs again unless Bryant acquiesces and passes the ball - or he's traded. And we all know that's not happening.

So what Bryant will do is force Dwight out of town. No way Howard signs a long-term deal to play with such a self-important and overrated player. Clearly Bryant doesn't make his teammates better. Fact is, he doesn't even want to.

[TimmehC]

Stern cockblocking them on the CP3 deal. Everything since then is on Buss, tho.

[irishock]

Their season ended when they passed on PJ

[024]

So true. Kobe would rather lose his way than win in others system.
actually, i honestly think kobe doesn't know any better. i don't think he rather loses, he tries so hard but he just doesn't understand the concept of team balanced basketball. kobe is good enough to shoot his team to victory when his team is just supremely talented over the rest of the league but could never stop when needed.

[Baseline]

actually, i honestly think kobe doesn't know any better. i don't think he rather loses, he tries so hard but he just doesn't understand the concept of team balanced basketball. kobe is good enough to shoot his team to victory when his team is just supremely talented over the rest of the league but could never stop when needed.

Both are great points.

From 2000-2002, Shaquille was so dominant that it didn't matter what Bryant did - the Lakers were going to win. Not even our Spurs could beat them.

After Gasol arrived in LA, the Lakers again had so much talent and size at the top of their lineup (Gasol, Bynum, Odom) that it was too much to overcome. Gasol was the real Finals MVP in 2010. Seriously, Bryant shoots 6-24 in Game 7, and Gasol bails him out. Nice clutch performance, Bryant.

But now, Gasol already has two rings, and Howard is accustomed to being The Man. Neither one of these guys are willing to put up with Bryant's selfishness. Bryant either doesn't understand the concept of team basketball, or he doesn't care. Either way, it doesn't bode well for this current Laker team. And Dwight can sign wherever he wants after this year.

[DPG21920]

I still think LA has the pieces to make D's system work. Pau in the Amare role, Nash in the Nash role, Kobe in the Joe Johnson/J Richardson role plus an elite defensive big in Dwight to top it off. Ron Artest is hitting 3's at a very good clip, Meeks can shoot, Jamison can shoot and they have guys like Hill coming off the bench in the Warrick role.

Kobe is every bit to blame for not adapting his ball dominant ways to a free flowing system as coach D is to not adjusting his system.

A small trade could really help them out. They need some shooters/more athletic wings and the system is a go.

It's not Dwight's fault he's playing through injury and isn't great enough to overcome the worst defensive backcourt in the league in Nash/Kobe (or at least one of the worst).

[HI-FI]

usually all these problems start at the top. so it begins with Jim Buss and Kupchak and their shitty way of building the team, firing coaches etc...Plus letting Kobe be this untouchable, uncoachable character for so long.

honestly, if it wasn't for Memphis hooking them up with Pau, the Lakers organization and Kobe would have been exposed even moreso a long time ago. Fortunately for them Jerry West came through in the clutch for the last time.

on the court the problems start at the top as well. Kobe is the de facto leader but he's always sucked in that role. It's simply not in his nature to be unselfish, concerned about others. I imagine if you had a CP3, Lebron or Duncan as the head of that team, the execution and chemistry would be miles better.

It is hilarious how people are saying they need a big trade to fix things, considering all the offseason moves they've recently made.

[noob cake]

Gasol isn't as washed up as his stats would indicate. It is Antoni not utilizing him correctly. Anytime you see Gasol parked on the perimeter, you know Antoni is failing.

1a. Chemistry/Momentum
1b. Antoni
2. Gasol
3. Kobe
4. Old age

[DeadlyDynasty]

Gasol is 7 feet tall, has a supposedly great skillset, and has zero impact on games. It's actually pretty incredible.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Gasol isn't as washed up as his stats would indicate. It is Antoni not utilizing him correctly. Anytime you see Gasol parked on the perimeter, you know Antoni is failing.



Yes and No on this one. I think Gasol is just done. He has been playing a LOT of ball for the past 6 years, dating from their championship runs and extra ball in the off season for Spain. The wear and tear just caught up to him. Though I agree D'Antoni doesn't use him properly, Gasol has proved so far that he's not the same player anymore in the post. They ran 2-3 plays down low for him last night and he was flat.



We will find out for sure if this is just an excuse though. Howard is injured and will not play tomorrow against Denver so Gasol will get his touches at the post. I think he will be overwhelmed by Denver's athletic front court of McGee and Faried.

[Koolaid_Man]

To Everyone talking shit about my nigga:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Misc/photo.jpg

[timvp]

Health, tbh.

[maverick1948]

Health, tbh.

Add old age to that .

:toast

[Ashy Larry]

the system .... can't have one of the best post players at the 3 point line ........... and the defense. no matter how horrid the offense looks, that shouldn't effect the defensive end.

[midnightpulp]

Age, system, lack of depth. With the Lakers, defense is not simply a matter of "effort," they just don't have the horses to stop the younger, more athletic teams in the league.

Kupcrap should've been patient and stuck with Brown, who had the right idea by slowing the game down to a crawl and turning things into a grindfest. Hiring D'Antoni to coach an old, slow roster with two 7 footers was about the stupidest move I've seen a GM make in all my years watching basketball.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Problem with Mike Brown is he likes playing Jamison and he absolutely hates giving Meeks some minutes.

[racm]

_efense, tbh.

Even the D-Fenders play better defense than their parent team.

[KaiRMD1]

Phil Jackson.....

[Russo21]

And when you announce that it's "still your team" during the offseason and then put up an embarrassing under .500 record this far into the season, it's on you.... when you get a coach fired after only a couple of games and then continue to underachieve, it's on you....

+1