Quick Grades: Spurs @ Hornets - Jan. 7

[timvp]

Tim Duncan D+
Looked decent early but fell off a cliff. Couldn’t buy a shot in second half. Slow reactions on D. Needed more boards.

Manu Ginobili B
Played with a commendable amount of energy. Made a lot of plays but his passing wasn’t as crisp as it needed to be.

Tony Parker C-
No energy to begin the game. Eventually tried to turn up the volume but it was too late. Playmaking was lacking.

Kawhi Leonard C+
Decent D at times; effort was there but consistency wasn’t. Offense was ragged. Needs to rediscover a niche.

Danny Green C
Impotent on offense. D was pretty good for a majority of the game but became shaky in the fourth.

Tiago Splitter C+
Wasn’t particularly bad in any area but simply wasn’t physical enough. He has to control the paint better on D.

Boris Diaw B-
Displayed a lot of versatility on D. Herky-jerky on offense. Liveliness was better than normal.

Gary Neal B
Played hard on D and his switches were quick. Offense was about average, though missed a few big shots.

Stephen JacksonC+
Defense was mostly solid. Exhibited more than enough physicality. Needs to hit more shots.

Matt Bonner D-
Pitiful on defense. Routinely lost his man. No presence in the paint. Hesitant on offense.

Nando De Colo Inc.
Passed up a three-pointer late that he really, really needed to shoot.

Patrick Mills Inc.
Played good pressure D in his seconds on the court.

Pop C-
Horrible rotation in the first half; totally senseless. Microball got the Spurs back into it but no answers in fourth.

[Cry Havoc]

This game would have looked a lot better if we could buy a three to save our lives. Just a bad night all the way around.

[Brunodf]

Pop should have tried a big lineup with Manu/Kawhi/Diaw/Timmy/Splitter.

[jon123spurs]

Just wasn't our night. Give credit where credit is due the Pelicans played lights out.

[weebo]

What's up with Kawhi? He's been pretty soft lately.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i thought splitter did well tonight on defense....he had a couple of blocks

the perimeter individual defense was fkn shocking tonight, expecially the clowns that were defending gordon, vasquez...gave these clowns to much spacing to operate and teh stepback fadeaways....

if pop was going to wave the white flag in this game playing down to the pelican level, shouldve just cleared the bench

[TheSkeptic]

Thanks Timvp. This was disappointing all around.

I completely disagree with Pop's grade though. If people are being graded according to expectations and we know that Pop is a better coach than this, there's no way he should get anything higher than a D. It was obvious that Green didn't have it and that that the perimeter defense was not good with Vasquez and Gordon each going off. To me the game was lost on that and the boards.

Pop was the one who went with microball too long, made questionable rotations, played Bonner, gave Green too many minutes, and coached on autopilot pretty much this entire game. I think this is hands down the worst he's done on the season and a C- is far too generous.

Edit: I'm agreeing with TDMVPDPOY a little too much for my tastes so I'm going to reconsider my position.

[Mugen]

those 8 minutes of Bonner ball were a chilling reminder tbh.

[Leetonidas]

Just one of those games where everything is off. Spurs can't shoot so terribly from deep and turn the ball over 19 times and win.

[TD 21]

Tim Duncan D+
Looked decent early but fell off a cliff. Couldn’t buy a shot in second half. Slow reactions on D. Needed more boards.

More like needed more help on the boards. Eight in 25:56 is pretty damn good. Splitter continues to be bordering on pathetic on the glass, Bonner is right back to being pathetic, Diaw always has been and Green has fallen off the face of the earth compared to last season.

If the front office even considers for a second standing pat at the deadline, they're out of their minds. Turnovers is something that can be fixed internally; the defensive rebounding can not.


Pop C-
Horrible rotation in the first half; totally senseless. Microball got the Spurs back into it but no answers in fourth.

Agreed. He sat Parker and Leonard too long, didn't play Splitter enough and overplayed Jackson, Bonner and Neal.

Now that he's back to a four man big rotation and the entire wing rotation is healthy, there is no excuse for Jackson to continue playing 20+ mpg. He's clearly the worst of the five wings and is looking perilously close to done, yet Pop continues to pretend as if he's still some starting caliber player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

stupid turnovers from over penetration into the key dunno what to do with it, with stupid last second bailout passes that ends up turnovers...nothing to see here

this fkn team never adjusts when shit isnt falling or not going their way, yet continue with the same old shit individual performances instead of looking to create plays....

[therealtruth]

The Spurs should be thanking the Hornets. They need to get better at playing long and athletic teams. It's the team's Achilles heel.

[TheSkeptic]

Also not sure what I think about Jax. Maybe give more of his minutes to Leonard and see what can be done with De Colo?

I like his energy and hustle but I don't think he's contributing when he's on the floor.

[timvp]

More like needed more help on the boards. Eight in 25:56 is pretty damn good.Four of those eight were offensive boards caused by missing multiple shots at the rim. Four real rebounds in 26 minutes isn't "pretty damn good", especially when the Hornets are living on the offensive glass.


Turnovers is something that can be fixed internally; the defensive rebounding can not.Tbh, defensive rebounding has already been fixed. After the putrid start to the season, they are up to 7th in the NBA in defensive rebounding. Over the last month or so, they're right near the top.


Now that he's back to a four man big rotation and the entire wing rotation is healthy, there is no excuse for Jackson to continue playing 20+ mpg. He's clearly the worst of the five wings and is looking perilously close to done, yet Pop continues to pretend as if he's still some starting caliber player. Well, ...

1. Jack needs minutes to get back into shape.

2. I don't think Pop is playing Jack like a starter ... he's just in that rotation at the swingman and is picking up some extra smallball minutes.

3. I didn't see Jack as one of the leading culprits of what happened tonight (not that you are necessarily suggesting that). He needed to knock down another shot or two but he wouldn't make my first page of complaints.

4. Leonard needs to be eased back in after sitting out with tendinitis. It makes no sense to rev Leonard all the way up to his maximum capacity this shortly after that type of injury.

[DPG21920]

In these types of losses where the team comes out flat and totally unprepared, how much blame goes on the coach?

[therealtruth]

Maybe it's time to start Manu? There's no point in waiting till a crucial playoff game to see if DG decides to show up. At least with Manu you have a known clutch player. He can also improve the ball movement among the starters and make Splitter more useful like he did with Blair when they were starters. Blair did pretty well as a starter with Manu. Splitter should be even better. Let DG get used to coming of the bench. You can play him with De Colo or Neal depending on matchups.

[MB3//]

It looked like Tim was walking a little gimpy going to the bench on one of the dead ball timeouts. I don't think he returned after that. I wonder if that had something to do with him sitting out the 4th.

[timvp]

Pop was the one who went with microball too long, made questionable rotations, played Bonner, gave Green too many minutes, and coached on autopilot pretty much this entire game. I think this is hands down the worst he's done on the season and a C- is far too generous.

Pretty valid points, though I slightly disagree. Microball (with Diaw at C and Jackson at PF) actually did pretty darn well and almost brought the Spurs all the way back. He might have used it slightly too long but it was definitely effective and goes down as a plus in my book (not that I want to see that lineup on a regular basis). Green's D on Gordon was pretty darn good until he exploded in that stretch in the fourth, so blaming Pop for giving Green those fourth quarter minutes would be somewhat unfair because it'd be relying 100% on hindsight. And I'm not sure about "autopilot"; I think this was more "mad scientist".

But, yeah, Bonner at the end of the first half was just a bad idea and the rashness of his decisions seemed to help keep the Spurs out of rhythm.

[TDMVPDPOY]

is there a fkn reason to come out flat when they gave up the knicks game + 1 day break?

[RD2191]

EXACTLY TDMVP

[TDMVPDPOY]

whatever happen to trying to get back on defense top priority, is still the same old shit offense orientated game...with scrubs on the floor who have no business being in a spurs jersey, whats the point of spreading the floor if the guys cant even play a lick of defense

[ElNono]

Green simply doesn't have the skill to defend the other team's best perimeter guy, especially when you have Leonard at hand. Pop sticking to Green on Gordon when they were running non-stop Gordon isos was the reason they could weather the Spurs comeback. Leonard was pegged to one of their bigs. I thought that was really poor coaching.

[TD 21]

Four of those eight were offensive boards caused by missing multiple shots at the rim. Four real rebounds in 26 minutes isn't "pretty damn good", especially when the Hornets are living on the offensive glass.

Tbh, defensive rebounding has already been fixed. After the putrid start to the season, they are up to 7th in the NBA in defensive rebounding. Over the last month or so, they're right near the top.

So now we're qualifying rebounds? It doesn't matter how he got them, just that he got them. I agree his defensive rebounding was sub par and has been recently, but still, overall, let's not pretend he was the main culprit. It's not his responsibility to singlehandedly keep teams off the offensive glass. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

I'm aware of their league rank, but teams with multiple bigs who are strong offensive rebounders have repeatedly bludgeoned this team and barring a trade, you can bet on this being a major part of their undoing in the playoffs.


Well, ...

1. Jack needs minutes to get back into shape.

2. I don't think Pop is playing Jack like a starter ... he's just in that rotation at the swingman and is picking up some extra smallball minutes.

3. I didn't see Jack as one of the leading culprits of what happened tonight (not that you are necessarily suggesting that). He needed to knock down another shot or two but he wouldn't make my first page of complaints.

4. Leonard needs to be eased back in after sitting out with tendinitis. It makes no sense to rev Leonard all the way up to his maximum capacity this shortly after that type of injury.

1. He's no longer good enough for that to be a concern. Anything more than spot minutes is too much and if his name were Finley or Jefferson, you and the vast majority would be saying the same thing.

2. He acts like he's owed a certain amount of minutes though. Like he's above playing spot minutes.

3. Fair enough, but overall, he's a problem. 20+ mpg for a guy who looks perilously close to done is way too much.

4. He's had long enough (Nash and Gordon, were out significantly longer, yet are playing significantly more minutes far fewer games after their return). He's young, spry and not asked to do a whole lot offensively. I'm not suggesting he's as good as prime Marion or Wallace yet, but that type of player is typically capable of playing 40 mpg, yet he can't even play something like 32 mpg? Inexplicable.

[Capt Bringdown]

Pop set the tone with his whack-a-mole rotations and the players followed suit. I agree that certain individual players and perhaps the team as a whole might have some re-discovery to do. Swings and roundabouts.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Green simply doesn't have the skill to defend the other team's best perimeter guy, especially when you have Leonard at hand. Pop sticking to Green on Gordon when they were running non-stop Gordon isos was the reason they could weather the Spurs comeback. Leonard was pegged to one of their bigs. I thought that was really poor coaching.

danny green give his fkn man too much spacing to operate with the ball, dude isnt long enough to be giving that spacing to rely on his length to alter any form of shots, his always late attempting to block shit anyway,....i guess thats the difference between him and KL/JAX when it comes to defensive assignments...the later 2 usually play in your face man2man defense leaving the player no room to operate with the ball...

[Floyd Pacquiao]

It looked like Tim was walking a little gimpy going to the bench on one of the dead ball timeouts. I don't think he returned after that. I wonder if that had something to do with him sitting out the 4th.

yea I saw that too...probably had everything to do with tim not playing the 4th

[DatBoyGood]

Well if this makes it better the Thunder lost to the Wizards by 2 :lol

[RD2191]

no its not better because we lost to the hornets

[RodNIc91]

A 'Just burn the tape loss". Some iffy decisions by Pop, cold shooting, TO's...Im back to a Splitter Bonner for Smith-Lopez Trade.

[Sean Cagney]

Well if this makes it better the Thunder lost to the Wizards by 2 :lol

Nope, just some ground we could have gained on the got damn Thunder if we actually beat a bad team.

[chapnis]

no its not better because we lost to the hornets

It's better, still a net negative, but better. Would you rather OKC won?

[RD2191]

nope, but i just wish we would of won.

[RD2191]

are the chances high that splitter leaves via free agency? would it be crazy to trade splitter and whoever for varejao?

[chapnis]

are the chances high that splitter leaves via free agency? would it be crazy to trade splitter and whoever for varejao?

Not high chances. Cavs want too much for Varejao apparently.

[timvp]

So now we're qualifying rebounds?Yeah, there are offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, tbh. Grabbing multiple rebounds at the rim because you can't make a layup isn't as valuable as grabbing a defensive board when the Hornets are crashing it repeatedly.


I'm aware of their league rank, but teams with multiple bigs who are strong offensive rebounders have repeatedly bludgeoned this team and barring a trade, you can bet on this being a major part of their undoing in the playoffs.Recent examples?


1. He's no longer good enough for that to be a concern. Anything more than spot minutes is too much and if his name were Finley or Jefferson, you and the vast majority would be saying the same thing.

2. He acts like he's owed a certain amount of minutes though. Like he's above playing spot minutes.

3. Fair enough, but overall, he's a problem. 20+ mpg for a guy who looks perilously close to done is way too much.

4. He's had long enough (Nash and Gordon, were out significantly longer, yet are playing significantly more minutes far fewer games after their return). He's young, spry and not asked to do a whole lot offensively. I'm not suggesting he's as good as prime Marion or Wallace yet, but that type of player is typically capable of playing 40 mpg, yet he can't even play something like 32 mpg? Inexplicable.

1. Jack brings more to the table than HWSNBN and old Fin ever did. He's not especially good and needs to play better to keep a spot ... but to act like he's trash that Pop is wasting minutes on is going pretty damn far, IMO. Jack has the ability to be a capable backup SF. He's not there yet but I don't see a reason why you want to treat him like a sunk cost.

2. He's off to a slow start to the season so you want him Blair'ed. Okay.

3. Maybe he's done. I don't think he is but that's a possibility. I think the more logical explanation is that he tried to work himself into shape and then broke his finger ... and is now playing with a finger that is still technically broken for the next few weeks. Besides, playing him a good amount in January is a great way to figure out how much he has left in his tank. Assuming anything at this point would be foolish, IMO, especially when there are ways to figure it out.

4. :lol @ comparing Pop's handling of players to D'Antoni's handling of players. And Gordon has barely played in like two years. Taking a cautious approach with Leonard and slowly building up his stamina is the way to go when dealing with a young player with knee/quad tendinitis. You push too hard and you risk what happened to Elliott -- it becomes chronic and he's forced to miss months at a time.

[therealtruth]

Nope, just some ground we could have gained on the got damn Thunder if we actually beat a bad team.

The Hornets are probably not a bad team when healthy.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.

[TD 21]

Yeah, there are offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds, tbh. Grabbing multiple rebounds at the rim because you can't make a layup isn't as valuable as grabbing a defensive board when the Hornets are crashing it repeatedly.

So it's his job to singlehandedly keep opposing teams off the offensive glass? How about Splitter grows a pair and takes care of that more than a handful of times per season? Or how about they acquire a PF who actually rebounds like a PF?


Recent examples?

Hornets (twice), Thunder (twice), Clippers (twice), Lakers, Grizzlies and Nuggets, have all hurt them in this regard. I don't think I need to explain why it's alarming that those specific teams (minus the Hornets) have done so.


1. Jack brings more to the table than HWSNBN and old Fin ever did. He's not especially good and needs to play better to keep a spot ... but to act like he's trash that Pop is wasting minutes on is going pretty damn far, IMO. Jack has the ability to be a capable backup SF. He's not there yet but I don't see a reason why you want to treat him like a sunk cost.

He does and that's why he should still be getting spot minutes as opposed to no minutes. Having the ability to be something and actually being something are two entirely different things. I want to treat him like what he is and that is a player who has no business playing in excess of 20 mpg for a team with serious championship aspirations. Like most Spurs fans, your nostalgia and bias clouds your judgment on him.


2. He's off to a slow start to the season so you want him Blair'ed. Okay.

No, I want him playing spot minutes, which is why I've said that about 37 times. It's beyond a "slow start". He has played at this level for the better part of the past two seasons, people have just ignored it because they like him and because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.


3. Maybe he's done. I don't think he is but that's a possibility. I think the more logical explanation is that he tried to work himself into shape and then broke his finger ... and is now playing with a finger that is still technically broken for the next few weeks. Besides, playing him a good amount in January is a great way to figure out how much he has left in his tank. Assuming anything at this point would be foolish, IMO, especially when there are ways to figure it out.

He should have been working his tail off in the off season, not just picking up a ball for the first time not long before camp. He's getting what he deserved.


4. :lol @ comparing Pop's handling of players to D'Antoni's handling of players. And Gordon has barely played in like two years. Taking a cautious approach with Leonard and slowly building up his stamina is the way to go when dealing with a young player with knee/quad tendinitis. You push too hard and you risk what happened to Elliott -- it becomes chronic and he's forced to miss months at a time.

It was just an example. Let's be honest, this has little to nothing to do with Leonard's injury. This is just how Pop has handled the wing rotation since Jackson was acquired. He needs to stop pretending as if there's little separation between the wings.

[Paranoid Pop]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.

I agree with that, he'd be perfect in that role too.

I didn't see the game but we won't win a lot when tp and Tim are playing like that.

I agree with TD 21 that they need a trade badly, front court is too soft, they should do whatever it takes to get Derrick Williams or Ilyasova.

That includes trading Green and Splitter the two best trading baits we have.

[Hoops Czar]

Green shouldn't be higher than the 8th or 9th man in the rotation.Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

[TD 21]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

He's not allowed an off shooting game or a bad stretch . . . you're only allowed those when you shoot 25% from 3 and when you're beloved for an overrated playoff performance from going on 10 years ago.

People need to realize that Green basically is the 7th man (and should be). He just starts for balance purposes.

[Paranoid Pop]

Green is not a good defender and a very one dimensional shooter on O... Start Manu for playmaking or Ky for defense at the 2.

[Brunodf]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

His job is to make wide open 3 pointers. If Green is making them that's just what he is supposed to do but if Green doesn't, he is useless.

[ElNono]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

It's like when Blair posted a double-double... once in a blue moon doesn't matter...

[timvp]

So it's his job to singlehandedly keep opposing teams off the offensive glass?Where'd I say that?
How about Splitter grows a pair and takes care of that more than a handful of times per season?I've repeatedly criticized Splitter for his defensive rebounding.



Hornets (twice), Thunder (twice), Clippers (twice), Lakers, Grizzlies and Nuggets, have all hurt them in this regard. I don't think I need to explain why it's alarming that those specific teams (minus the Hornets) have done so.

I guess you have a different interpretation for the word "recent", tbh.

The defensive rebounding wasn't too bad against the Clippers. Against the Thunder, it was adequate in the season opener (and it was very strong in the playoffs last year).

You were beating the "defensive rebounding is a problem" drum all of last season and it turned out to be a strength in the playoffs. Considering that a lot of the issues this year could be traced back to that period when the Spurs didn't have a small forward, I don't yet see a need for concern.


He does and that's why he should still be getting spot minutes as opposed to no minutes. Having the ability to be something and actually being something are two entirely different things. I want to treat him like what he is and that is a player who has no business playing in excess of 20 mpg for a team with serious championship aspirations. Like most Spurs fans, your nostalgia and bias clouds your judgment on him.Nostalgia and bias claims work better against someone who hasn't admitted that Jack might be done and that he needs to improve in order to become a competent backup SF.

All I'm saying is I'm not in favor of banishing him to the depths of the bench (Bonner-esque spot minutes or however you want to frame it) because there are reasonable explanations for his slow start. I'm not sure why you are mystified that a guy with a broken finger can't consistently shoot it straight yet.


No, I want him playing spot minutes, which is why I've said that about 37 times. It's beyond a "slow start". He has played at this level for the better part of the past two seasons, people have just ignored it because they like him and because he shot out of his mind in the WCF.Jack has yet to really get into a rhythm and find a niche yet with the Spurs. Patience is needed. Hastily banishing him at this juncture of the season doesn't make any sense.

And, it might just be me, but if a player stepped up when it was absolutely needed the most last season, I'm going to give him a few extra feet of rope before I close the book on him.

[timvp]

His job is to make wide open 3 pointers. If Green is making them that's just what he is supposed to do but if Green doesn't, he is useless.

If his job is to make open three-pointers, he's doing a helluva job considering he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, he's streaky but if the end result is someone who can shoot >40% while getting up a lot of attempts due to his quick release, I'd take that every day of the week. That's a rare ability.

And TD 21 is right, Green in reality is more like this team's seventh man.

[pookenstein]

Green going to the basket is just painful to watch. If he doesn't pick up an offensive foul he can't finish at the rim.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Add me to those who think that Stephen Jackson has been more of a liability this season, heroics in history apart. For all the competitiveness and intangibles he brings, I think the greatest value he has provided is that he is not Jefferson and he has a $10m expiring contract thus far. I am leaning toward using his contract to get a decent backup PF and perhaps a more useful backup to Leonard.

[Spurs da champs]

Yes Jacks "intangibles" have become outweighed by his bad play & Leonard needs to ask himself & Pop if he's content with being a spot up shooter. Because honestly he's a mediocre shooter & is just way too talented to be just that.

[biskvito]

lol vazques 11 assists
lol spurs shooting 9 more 3pt and having worse % under .300
lol De Colo 1.4min and 1 assist, while bonner 8 min 0-0-0 and Splitter starving with 2/4
lol senile team that relies on 3pt to win

[Boomersgold]

Austin Rivers' averages this season:



Season
Team
G
GS
MPG
FG%
3p%
FT%
OFF
DEF
RPG
APG
SPG
BPG
TO
PF
PPG


12-13
NOH
33
22
26.7
0.337
0.350
0.565
0.3
2.0
2.2
2.6
0.6
0.2
1.4
1.9
6.9



How does a scrub like this average close to 27 minutes of playing time a game? Even Bonner and Blair could put up better stats than that, if given the same amount of pt. Shooting 34% from the field and 56% from the free throw line as a guard? I know we're only half way through this season, but I'm pretty confident that Rivers will end up one of the worst NBA busts since Kwame Brown.

[chapnis]

Austin Rivers' averages this season:



Season
Team
G
GS
MPG
FG%
3p%
FT%
OFF
DEF
RPG
APG
SPG
BPG
TO
PF
PPG


12-13
NOH
33
22
26.7
0.337
0.350
0.565
0.3
2.0
2.2
2.6
0.6
0.2
1.4
1.9
6.9



How does a scrub like this average close to 27 minutes of playing time a game? Even Bonner and Blair could put up better stats than that, if given the same amount of pt. Shooting 34% from the field and 56% from the free throw line as a guard? I know we're only half way through this season, but I'm pretty confident that Rivers will end up one of the worst NBA busts since Kwame Brown.

I'm sure they could sign a scrub like JAnderson and he'd put up better numbers. I guess they see potential...

[Fabbs]

Were Spurs seen partying and drinking in New OrL the night before the game?

[Slippy]

Tony Parker was a letdown for sure, made even worse when his opposite number ran the floor perfectly. Vasquez's playmaking was a stark contrast to Tony's who's was of the last resort kind. I mean there was plays where Tony just held the ball too long.

Can't agree about the Tiago defense though. Thought his interior D was pretty damn good and in combination with Tim stopped a lot of easy points in the paint. The perimeter guys simply got burnt with vasquez and Strickland doing most of the damage.

[Slippy]

So it's his job to singlehandedly keep opposing teams off the offensive glass? How about Splitter grows a pair and takes care of that more than a handful of times per season? Or how about they acquire a PF who actually rebounds like a PF?




Spurs get beat on the boards quite often because of team defense they play. When you got rotating bigs covering guard penetration or patrolling the paint, you are left with guys like Parker, Neal or Green rotating to cover opposing bigs. Pop also plays a lof smallball which kind amplifies it when you got traditonal SF playing PF. There's numerous examples from last nights game where you couldn't expect Tiago to grab that rebound after helping out on D. Unless you expect him to "grow" Dwight Howard ability. Couldn't beleive my eyes when i saw Ryan Anderson defended by Neal and you had Diaw at center. With that line-up the gamble paid off for the spurs, although Pop did go with it too long.

Overall im glad to see the spurs prioritize team defense over rebounds. Once kawai and sjax get back into a groove the improvement will come.

[PingPong]

Too much scrubs in this team:Green, Neal, Blair, Bonner, De Colo, Mills... Green and Neal are third string players, the rest almost doesn't count.

[Boomersgold]

Too much scrubs in this team:Green, Neal, Blair, Bonner, De Colo, Mills... Green and Neal are third string players, the rest almost doesn't count.

:lmao Bonner, De Colo and Mills would be second string players on mid-tier teams like the Hornets or the Trail Blazers. In fact, I'd even put Mills and De Colo higher than Neal on the point guard talent depth chart...

[PingPong]

:lmao Bonner, De Colo and Mills would be second string players on mid-tier teams like the Hornets or the Trail Blazers. In fact, I'd even put Mills and De Colo higher than Neal on the point guard talent depth chart...

De Colo and Mills did some bench blowout. Neal can hit clutch threes if he has to do only it. Danny Green hits lots of threes but when some step up is needed, he simply disappear. Scrub.

[Bruno]

I haven't watched the game but it looks like Spurs came flat and Pop still isn't done with playing the mad scientist. At least, I hope there will have a silver lining to this loss which will be to have Spurs extra motivated to beat Lakers Wednesday.

I still find a little weird that Blair doesn't even play in garbage time. I don't really have a convincing explanation of that.

[Brunodf]

If his job is to make open three-pointers, he's doing a helluva job considering he's shooting 42% on threes. Yes, he's streaky but if the end result is someone who can shoot >40% while getting up a lot of attempts due to his quick release, I'd take that every day of the week. That's a rare ability.

And TD 21 is right, Green in reality is more like this team's seventh man.

Almost every nba player can shot 40% when is wide open, hell Manu is a 70% 3pt shooter when is wide open.

[timvp]

Almost every nba player can shot 40% when is wide openNot true, tbh.


hell Manu is a 70% 3pt shooter when is wide open.No he's not.

[Brunodf]

Not true, tbh.

No he's not.


"his efficiency from the corner three (70%) clearly helped the team, resulting in a 17.6 net rating"

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/1/4/3836306/manu-ginobili-is-rounding-into-shape

I don't have acess to nba.com inside stats, but i also remember that last season some annuncer talked about how Manu was shooting 70% in open 3s and they should contest his shots...

[Horse]

I was at the game and like everyone is saying it was just one of those nights, you could tell from tipoff. On top of that every ugly piece of shit shot the pelicans put up somehow went in. It's like they say the sun even shines on a dogs ass some nights.

[Horse]

Oh and eric gordan is one luck-chuck motherfucker looked like rex chapman out there heaving shots up.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Where is this post when he goes 8-9 from the field?

Against the bottom feeder teams?

[timvp]

"his efficiency from the corner three (70%) clearly helped the team, resulting in a 17.6 net rating"

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/1/4/3836306/manu-ginobili-is-rounding-into-shape

I don't have acess to nba.com inside stats, but i also remember that last season some annuncer talked about how Manu was shooting 70% in open 3s and they should contest his shots...

That link you provided says that Manu shot 70% on corner three-pointers from the 11th thru 20th game of the season. That doesn't have anything to do with what percentage he shoots on open three-pointers.

The best three-point shooter last year when open was Kawhi Leonard, who -- IIRC -- shot something like 48-50%.


Against the bottom feeder teams?

As opposed to the Hornets ...

[Brunodf]

The best three-point shooter last year when open was Kawhi Leonard, who -- IIRC -- shot something like 48-50%.


Just confirmed what i said: Almost every nba player can shot 40% when is wide open.

But are u sure that wasn't Manu?

[timvp]

Just confirmed what i said: Almost every nba player can shot 40% when is wide open.

http://www.spurstalk.com/not-sure-if-serious-camel.jpg

[letmk]

Where'd I say that? I've repeatedly criticized Splitter for his defensive rebounding.



I guess you have a different interpretation for the word "recent", tbh.

The defensive rebounding wasn't too bad against the Clippers. Against the Thunder, it was adequate in the season opener (and it was very strong in the playoffs last year).

You were beating the "defensive rebounding is a problem" drum all of last season and it turned out to be a strength in the playoffs. Considering that a lot of the issues this year could be traced back to that period when the Spurs didn't have a small forward, I don't yet see a need for concern.

Nostalgia and bias claims work better against someone who hasn't admitted that Jack might be done and that he needs to improve in order to become a competent backup SF.

All I'm saying is I'm not in favor of banishing him to the depths of the bench (Bonner-esque spot minutes or however you want to frame it) because there are reasonable explanations for his slow start. I'm not sure why you are mystified that a guy with a broken finger can't consistently shoot it straight yet.

Jack has yet to really get into a rhythm and find a niche yet with the Spurs. Patience is needed. Hastily banishing him at this juncture of the season doesn't make any sense.

And, it might just be me, but if a player stepped up when it was absolutely needed the most last season, I'm going to give him a few extra feet of rope before I close the book on him.

First, a caveat: no way I'm treating Manu and Jack as the same in the following.

To me, you may argue that Manu at the beginning of the season needs to play more minutes to get into basketball shape. That's because Manu was looking physically quite good for his age and normal expectation. He simply needs to play more to show whether he is still good basketball-wise at this stage.

But Jack doesn't even look good without ball, heck, he simply doesn't even move well. What he needs FIRST is to discipline himself into better physical shape, instead of occupying too many valuable minutes. I'm not arguing for not playing him at all, but as others said, if his physical condition looks like this, he doesn't deserve to play more than sporadic minutes.

[TD 21]

Where'd I say that?

Look up the word inferred.


I guess you have a different interpretation for the word "recent", tbh.

The defensive rebounding wasn't too bad against the Clippers. Against the Thunder, it was adequate in the season opener (and it was very strong in the playoffs last year).

You were beating the "defensive rebounding is a problem" drum all of last season and it turned out to be a strength in the playoffs. Considering that a lot of the issues this year could be traced back to that period when the Spurs didn't have a small forward, I don't yet see a need for concern.

I knew you'd say that, but we're barely over two months into the season, so every game is relatively recent.

It was poor against both; stop sugar coating it.

Honestly, they flat out got lucky that it didn't kill them last season. With Splitter's, Diaw's and Green's drop off, there's clearly cause for concern.


Nostalgia and bias claims work better against someone who hasn't admitted that Jack might be done and that he needs to improve in order to become a competent backup SF.

All I'm saying is I'm not in favor of banishing him to the depths of the bench (Bonner-esque spot minutes or however you want to frame it) because there are reasonable explanations for his slow start. I'm not sure why you are mystified that a guy with a broken finger can't consistently shoot it straight yet.

The same someone who not long ago said "two starting SF's is not enough"? Don't even try to weasel your way out of this one. :rollin

What "slow start"? He's been this caliber of player for the better part of the past two seasons. Look it up. He couldn't shoot it straight even when healthy.


Jack has yet to really get into a rhythm and find a niche yet with the Spurs. Patience is needed. Hastily banishing him at this juncture of the season doesn't make any sense.

And, it might just be me, but if a player stepped up when it was absolutely needed the most last season, I'm going to give him a few extra feet of rope before I close the book on him.

More excuses. How many games should he be given then? They've had him for the better part of a calendar year.

I'd give him that rope in the playoffs, the same way Horry's role increased then. Right now, he should be the clear cut ninth man. They can easily pile a few extra mpg onto the other four wings.


Slippy, that's a terrible excuse. There's no correlation whatsoever between teams defending well not being good defensive rebounding teams.

[dylankerouac]

Thanks for the quick grades, sorry for the late acknowledgement.

[Slippy]

Slippy, that's a terrible excuse. There's no correlation whatsoever between teams defending well not being good defensive rebounding teams.

Never said their was a correlation in such general terms. That's you going off the deep end again. It's reality in relation to the spurs. You want to a blame an individual for a team issue and coache's instructions . If it helps I'll admit Tiago could take his rebounds more cleanly but you need to see he's doing what he's supposed to do. In fact, he doing a lot better job than Boris and in some aspects better than Tim.

My point was the Spurs are placing team defense as a priority when for the most part of the season they havn't had suitable personell to properly succeed with it.Pop wants his guys thinking like machines on rotations and helping out even if it means sacrificing rebounds from your own man. Kawai and Sjax rounding into form will help bigtime since players are still playing out of posi but right now it's a work in progress. So far this season it's already being acknowledged they are showing signs of improvement on D compared to last season. That's good enough for me .

In the long run going into the play-offs, these guys will be ready.

[Russo21]

Aww fuck. I've just got home after a 31 hour shift. I come online to find out we lost to the Hornets? That's fucked.

[TD 21]

Never said their was a correlation in such general terms. That's you going off the deep end again. It's reality in relation to the spurs. You want to a blame an individual for a team issue and coache's instructions . If it helps I'll admit Tiago could take his rebounds more cleanly but you need to see he's doing what he's supposed to do. In fact, he doing a lot better job than Boris and in some aspects better than Tim.

My point was the Spurs are placing team defense as a priority when for the most part of the season they havn't had suitable personell to properly succeed with it.Pop wants his guys thinking like machines on rotations and helping out even if it means sacrificing rebounds from your own man. Kawai and Sjax rounding into form will help bigtime since players are still playing out of posi but right now it's a work in progress. So far this season it's already being acknowledged they are showing signs of improvement on D compared to last season. That's good enough for me .

In the long run going into the play-offs, these guys will be ready.

You inferred that there was though.

So you're telling me that the defensive system has drastically changed from this year to last? Because if you're not, then why could they have led the league in defensive rebounding last season, when the system was the same and the personnel was too? Face it, all you're doing is making an excuse.

[Brazil]

Aww fuck. I've just got home after a 31 hour shift. I come online to find out we lost to the Hornets? That's fucked.

where are you working at ?

[Slippy]

.

So you're telling me that the defensive system has drastically changed from this year to last? Because if you're not, then why could they have led the league in defensive rebounding last season, when the system was the same and the personnel was too? Face it, all you're doing is making an excuse.

No, im saying the defensive emphasis has changed and a few key personell have not been healthy to fully realise it.

Deal with it, it's not that complicated and a valid reason. There's still a half a season to go to see how it plays out.