Not sold on danny green

[LASToog36]

while we can still get something out of him i think he needs to be included in a trade deal with
bonner and blair .. these are the three official playoff chokers as you could prolly tell from yesterdays game.. against sub-par games sure he does an okay job,but in a playoff atmosphere and under the pressure as was in the laker game he doesnt show up, kinda reminded me of the playoffs last year.

we need a guy who can pick it up offensively wen tony and timmy are struggling someone who can create his own shot off the dribble a slasher a finisher not just a 3-point shooter..perhaps a rudy gay??

DISCUSS

[Spurs da champs]

I've never been sold on him, he will always be the scrub that got cut from Cleveland to me.

[chapnis]

Regular season: Green > Neal.

But in a playoff game I have much more faith in Neal being able to step up and make a shot.

[Drz]

Regular season: Green > Neal.

But in a playoff game I have much more faith in Neal being able to step up and make a shot.
Which one changes their shooting stroke for the playoffs, Green or Neal?

Because I assume you're not basing this off of the 18 and 20 games, respectively, of postseason experience they have.

[chapnis]

I don't have anything to back it up, but if I was the coach I'd rather Neal be in than Green probably during the playoffs. But I don't know shit about basketball so...

[Captivus]

I want to see Green play more PO games. I need a bigger sample.

[Paranoid Pop]

I kinda agree with this, I'm a bit of a Green hater, I think he and Bonner are what's wrong with Pop's love for specialists, I don't like that kind of player, that said the Spurs have way bigger problems than Danny Green, the biggest reason I'd trade him is because Pop loves him irrationnally like he did Bonner in the past and he tends to overplay him, including at the 3 when it doesn't make any sense.

[Richie]

Green had one bad playoff series. He shot 45% from 3 in the two series against Utah and Clippers.

Playing one bad series doesn't make you a playoff choker.

[LASToog36]

may i add hes a good defender but not great so whatelse does he offer when his threes are nonexistent come po time..
dg needs to improve:

slashing to the rim
finishing at the rim
creating his own shot (because those spot up tres are gonna be well defended come playoffs)
smarter passing(decrease turnovers, he often looks sloppy and in panic mode
penetration

love it now but these tre balls are gonna haunt us in the playoffs where its all about easy buckets at the rim

[lakerhaterade]

I am not sold either. You simply can't rely on scrubs like Danny Green to produce against quality competition. I dismiss the first two series of the playoffs last year cause the teams we faced we're simply overmatched (Jazz) or hurt (Clippers). We got a BIG break with the seedings; if you dismiss that fact consider yourself a retard.


Our first real playoff series was against Oklahoma City. A series in which Green absolutely shit the fucking bed.








Danny Green is a scrub, nothing more nothing less. That's it.

[PingPong]

To me, Green's low b-ball iq is what bothers more than anything. Sometimes he does some stupid moves, but like Neal, he's a SG not a PG. Both are awful as a PG. Spurs needs to get rid one of them (or both) plus Blair and De Colo and get a good PG since Manu get injured often and is having some sloppy games.

[Kuestmaster]

Sometimes Green exhasperates me, but something tells me he'll be, and has to be, a huge factor in this playoffs if the spurs are going to do something big.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Regular season: Green > Neal.

But in a playoff game I have much more faith in Neal being able to step up and make a shot.

gary neal gives up just as many points on the other end no matter how much pts he scores....

[Seventyniner]

Green had one bad playoff series. He shot 45% from 3 in the two series against Utah and Clippers.

Playing one bad series doesn't make you a playoff choker.

James Harden says hi.

[lakerhaterade]

Danny Green ‏@DGreen_14 (https://twitter.com/DGreen_14)
Ain't nuttin better than humble person that has every right to be cocky...


I hope he ain't talking about himself

[silverblackfan]

I like him. He can bring good defense, is young, long, quick and smart. There is no reason yet to believe he can't handle pressure.
He is a good role player and allows us some defensive options without having a black hole on offense. He is a 3 pt. threat.
Neal, I would rather shoot the playoff shots, but his defense is what would kill the Spurs. You need stops in the play offs.

That said, they are both improving every year. Green is better with the dribbles this year and Neal is showing good signs on defense. Good players who know their role.

[Interrohater]

Spursfan just hates on anyone that's not a bonafide all-star. We can't have all-stars at every position, sometimes you just need a good role-player. Danny Green is a good role-player. As in, he plays his role of being a good defender and a spot up three point shooter. Every once in a while he'll slash, or drive, but his main focus is defense and 3 point shooting. I agree with some of you that it would be great to have players at all positions that can do everything, but it's impossible unless you want to be paying crazy amounts of luxury tax. Even then, your team might not gel (looking at you Lakers).

So in summary, Danny Green is a great player for what he does. I also think that he's very young and too much is expected of him from posters here. He was guarding one of the elite scorers in this league whom not many can stop and you want him to shut that guy down? Not impossible, but improbable. Danny Green is not, as of yet, an elite defender. Good defender, but not elite; not even great. How can you hate on a guy that never fails to hustle, gives his all, and does his assigned task well? Replacing him with Rudy Gay? I'm not so sure those numbers work...

[cd98]

Manu Ginoboli is getting paid to be our starting two guard. Of course, he comes off the bench. But Danny Green isn't being paid to be an all star two guard. Ginoboli is. So you have to lower your expectations for Danny Green based on his salary, and raise your expectations on Ginoboli, who is paid to be a star.

Green knocks down threes, plays pretty good defense, is learning to score off back door cuts and other gimmicks. Yes, he's limited as a player, but he is effective playing with Parker, Duncan, and Ginoboli. I think he was given us what we are paying him.

Doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't improve his game. But I didn't see this thread when he was on fire earlier this year. I think people are being a bit fickle.

[Mel_13]

while we can still get something out of him i think he needs to be included in a trade deal with
bonner and blair .. these are the three official playoff chokers as you could prolly tell from yesterdays game.. against sub-par games sure he does an okay job,but in a playoff atmosphere and under the pressure as was in the laker game he doesnt show up, kinda reminded me of the playoffs last year.

we need a guy who can pick it up offensively wen tony and timmy are struggling someone who can create his own shot off the dribble a slasher a finisher not just a 3-point shooter..perhaps a rudy gay??

DISCUSS


In addition to what Interrohater says below, do you realize the absurdity of what you propose? You first label three players as official playoff chokers and then you propose to trade them to bring back a player like Rudy Gay. That's basketball alchemy and just isn't possible in the real world. (Cue the "but, but, the Gasol trade...)





Spursfan just hates on anyone that's not a bonafide all-star. We can't have all-stars at every position, sometimes you just need a good role-player. Danny Green is a good role-player. As in, he plays his role of being a good defender and a spot up three point shooter.

[Spurs7794]

while we can still get something out of him i think he needs to be included in a trade deal with
bonner and blair .. these are the three official playoff chokers as you could prolly tell from yesterdays game.. against sub-par games sure he does an okay job,but in a playoff atmosphere and under the pressure as was in the laker game he doesnt show up, kinda reminded me of the playoffs last year.

we need a guy who can pick it up offensively wen tony and timmy are struggling someone who can create his own shot off the dribble a slasher a finisher not just a 3-point shooter..perhaps a rudy gay??

DISCUSS

The last time we picked up a wing who could pick it up offensively wen tony and timmy are struggling someone who can create his own shot off the dribble a slasher a finisher not just a 3-point shooter...we ended up with Richard Jefferson.

Green is good for this team because we rely on the big three. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus because he struggled in 4 games in his first REAL playoff series (games 5 and 6 don't count because Pop screwed with his head by benching him and hardly playing him).

[spurraider21]

Our starting shooting guards over the years (besides the stints where Manu started): Danny Green, Roger Mason Jr., Keith Bogans, Michael Finley, and Bowen for one season (when Turkoglu, gag, was playing SF).

I think Danny Green is the best of the bunch outside of Bowen. Our starting 2 guard has to play good defense, run the floor, and hit open jump shots. Green had 1 bad postseason series, in what was his FIRST season has a regular rotation player, let alone a playoff starter. His 3 point shooting this season is just under 42% and he plays better defense than any of the aforementioned shooting guards (of course, Bowen being the exception because he was out of position). I mean Green is essentially Finley with better defense. I'd like to give him another postseason to prove himself. Of course he's not an all-star caliber player, but you can only have so many of those guys... Green is an awesome role player

[benefactor]

Let me go outside and shake the SG tree in my back yard to see if something worthwhile falls off. brb.

[timtonymanu]

I guess you guys prefer the days when Mason, Bogans, or Finley were the starting SG's.

[timvp]

Danny Green has somehow gone from the most overrated player on the Spurs to the most underrated player on the Spurs in a matter of a year. Some here apparently think that shooting guards who are capable defensively, can knock down three-pointers at a >40% clip and fit within a team structure (in other words, don't ballhog or turn it over too much) are easy to find. The truth is they aren't ... especially for what the Spurs are paying him.

[ace3g]

Green has definitely improved in certain areas from last year:

1. Ability to pump fake, step through and then shoot. Against the Thunder he wasn't comfortable doing that.

2. Making timely cuts to the basket.

3. Drive and dish ability, especially lately.

Could Green go cold again in a tough playoff match up? Yes, but now he has other tools to help him score points and the team offense overall when his shot isn't falling.

[Mel_13]

Danny Green has somehow gone from the most overrated player on the Spurs to the most underrated player on the Spurs in a matter of a year. Some here apparently think that shooting guards who are capable defensively, can knock down three-pointers at a >40% clip and fit within a team structure (in other words, don't ballhog or turn it over too much) are easy to find. The truth is they aren't ... especially for what the Spurs are paying him.

ST operating principles:

1. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. (Mahinmi is a good example)

2. Familiarity breeds contempt. (Green is just the latest in a long line. Bonner once had a Chuck Norris thread and Blair was once so overrated that there were threads asking if he was the second best player in the 2009 draft)

[Manu-20]

Some people can never just be content with what they have, Danny is a great player for the price he is getting paid but I guess we can trade for Lebron if we just tried hard enough Do it R.C. :rolleyes.

[Cry Havoc]

Danny Green has somehow gone from the most overrated player on the Spurs to the most underrated player on the Spurs in a matter of a year. Some here apparently think that shooting guards who are capable defensively, can knock down three-pointers at a >40% clip and fit within a team structure (in other words, don't ballhog or turn it over too much) are easy to find. The truth is they aren't ... especially for what the Spurs are paying him.

Somewhere in the past two years Spurstalk went out and found itself a bunch of self-loathing Spurs fans. Anything not named Tim or Manu is the enemy if they so much as shoot with more than 5 seconds left on the shot clock. It's incredible to me that after all these years, people still think that Tony Parker getting interior penetration against a defense that forces them to collapse is a bad thing. People actually complain when Parker shoots and makes the shot, even if the shot is a good one.

It's unreal. I don't know of any fanbase that's so irrationally pessimistic (I said irrationally, tlong). Good wins don't count because they're flukes or it's the reg season, close wins are indicators of how bad we are, close losses are on Pop for his horrific coaching, and the few times we get beaten badly, this forum goes into "blowup the team" mode (sometimes after the close losses too). I mean, I get that we should have drubbed the Lakers, but every team has bad wins and losses this year. I don't know what changed in the annals of this site to make it Gloom Central after every game. The negative nancys spamming up the game threads don't help, either.


Let me go outside and shake the SG tree in my back yard to see if something worthwhile falls off. brb.

:lmao

Priceless. Shut down the thread. :lol

[palangi]

well with memphis really trying to get rid of rudy gay why don't we trade there.

san antonio gets:

SF rudy gay


memphis gets:

SF stephen jackson
PF matt bonner
SG danny green
future first round pick


then trade blair and a second round pick to golden st for jeremy tyler


the salaries line up.

then sign donte greene to replace bonner and also able to play some minutes at the 3 if needed. also we can start leonard at the 2. but he can also play minutes at the 3 still too.

PG- parker, mills, de colo
SG- leonard, manu, neal
SF- gay, leonard, greene
PF- duncan, diaw, greene
C- splitter, baynes, tyler

[Strategic]

Barry, Bowen, Finley, Green, Horry, Mohammed, Oberto, Robinson, Rose, Udrih, Vaughn

[Johnny RIngo]

I'm not really understanding the hate for Green. He hits threes at a good percentage, hustles on defense(though isn't very good in general), and understands the system. Obviously, he still needs to improve his finishing around the rim as well as his D but he brings good value to the team considering his contract.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

well with memphis really trying to get rid of rudy gay why don't we trade there.

...


Do you know why they want to trade Gay?

[palangi]

Do you know why they want to trade Gay?
i've heard it is for money relief. gay is making 16 million this year and 18 next.

[Chinook]

Let me go outside and shake the SG tree in my back yard to see if something worthwhile falls off. brb.

Maybe you'll find a Barry or two.

[Mel_13]

Maybe you'll find a Barry or two.

:lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMkAYaeOJM

[Chinook]

Boy, I miss when there were other solid vets on the team besides the Big Three. It just felt awesome to have player like Horry, Bones and Bowen there. I hope players like Green, Splitter and Leonard eventually develop that much clout.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

i've heard it is for money relief. gay is making 16 million this year and 18 next.

Yes - they're deep into lux tax this season and they want to get under the threshold. Nothing the Spurs could offer will help them achieve that.

[objective]

To me, he's Danny Bonner. Great regular season player.

He's a bit of an overrated defender. ISO'd against point guards he's good, which comes in handy if he's on Paul or Lin to end a game. But you don't want him on pick and rolls. And he loses his man without the ball a lot. People think he's some super '3 & D' player but he's really a '3 & meh D'.

He's good in the regular season on offense. Great even. But I don't get why people are sooooo eager to downplay the OKC series. Did he shoot well against Utah and the Clippers? Yes. Did the Spurs need him to win? No. Did they need him against OKC? Yes. And he Bonner'd it. Stephen Jackson pukes all over himself in the regular season while shooting like garbage. But playoff time? He delivers. And he did it back when he was making scrub money too.

This isn't irrational hatred or some instance of familiarity contempt or ignoring his salary. But it is what it is. I'm not sold on Danny Bonner, like the title says. Trading him for Rudy Gay is ridiculous, but that doesn't really need to be said.

[Shifty]

I love when a thread starts out with tons of crazy comments that make me question the quality of ST posters and then get a few objective, far better ones to restore my faith in the site.

Green is our 6th best player (at best) and very good one. He is good/great/elite in the 2 things we need from him, defense and 3pt shooting. Those who dismiss the first 2 series because they were not close shouldn't forget they were like that in part because of Green D and 3. IIRC he was the one harrasing CP3 all series long.

[Spurs7794]

To me, he's Danny Bonner. Great regular season player.

He's a bit of an overrated defender. ISO'd against point guards he's good, which comes in handy if he's on Paul or Lin to end a game. But you don't want him on pick and rolls. And he loses his man without the ball a lot. People think he's some super '3 & D' player but he's really a '3 & meh D'.

He's good in the regular season on offense. Great even. But I don't get why people are sooooo eager to downplay the OKC series. Did he shoot well against Utah and the Clippers? Yes. Did the Spurs need him to win? No. Did they need him against OKC? Yes. And he Bonner'd it. Stephen Jackson pukes all over himself in the regular season while shooting like garbage. But playoff time? He delivers. And he did it back when he was making scrub money too.

This isn't irrational hatred or some instance of familiarity contempt or ignoring his salary. But it is what it is. I'm not sold on Danny Bonner, like the title says. Trading him for Rudy Gay is ridiculous, but that doesn't really need to be said.

The reason I give him a pass is because players who everyone remember as being tough as nails in the playoffs often have their worst performances white washed from memory.

Bruce Bowen was awesome...but he shat the bed in the 2004 playoffs against the Lakers. He then hit the biggest shot in our 2007 postseason run.
Robert Horry shat the bed in that same series...but he hit arguably the biggest shot in franchise history the very next year.

One playoff series does not make Green a choker.

[objective]

The reason I give him a pass is because players who everyone remember as being tough as nails in the playoffs often have their worst performances white washed from memory.

Bruce Bowen was awesome...but he shat the bed in the 2004 playoffs against the Lakers. He then hit the biggest shot in our 2007 postseason run.
Robert Horry shat the bed in that same series...but he hit arguably the biggest shot in franchise history the very next year.

One playoff series does not make Green a choker.

Bowen had already proven himself. Moreover, his 2004 series against the Lakers is where he shot twice as well as Green against OKC from behind the arc and played much better defense. In his Spur career Bowen never shot from 3 in the playoffs as low as Green did last year. Horry had proven himself in the past.

But I get what you're saying. However one bad, no, one incredibly awful playoff series where he had to be benched as his defense wasn't good enough to keep him on the floor when his shot was off or he wouldn't shoot . . . we don't have to ignore it. However, it might be harsh for me to label Green as Danny Bonner when his two series against Utah and the Clippers are arguably better than any series Bonner ever had.

What I'm saying is this, and it's completely reasonable: I don't trust Danny Green in the playoffs. I have no expectation that he will do any better the next time they're in a close series. If the rest of this board is convinced that Green is under-rated super-clutch and awesome with his Bowen-esque defense and will destroy OKC and the revamped Clippers and the Heat and whoever else, good for them. I'm not there yet. In the modified words of Coolio, I'll see U when I get there.

[Interrohater]

I think that, while you keep saying the opposite, nobody on here believes Danny Green is elite in any category. I don't trust him in the playoffs either, but I feel the same about every Spur not named Tony, Tim, or Manu. He is not the next Bruce Bowen. He's the next Danny Green. He's a good fit.

[objective]

To me, not trusting in the playoffs = Not sold on him.

I do trust Kawhi. I'm buying it.

[freetiago]

If brandon rush wasnt injured i would try to scam golden state for a rush for blair/green trade

[Brunodf]

Do you know why they want to trade Gay?

Overpaid cancer.

[Mel_13]

What I'm saying is this, and it's completely reasonable: I don't trust Danny Green in the playoffs.

While I think the Bonner tag is harsh, the above statement is reasonable. Green's offense is one-dimensional. It's a good dimension and it fits in the offense. The problem is that it's easily neutralized by any team that cares to do so. I don't see him as a choker, but his offense can be eliminated in a playoff series and his defense isn't good enough to make up for a zero at the other end.

[pad300]

I'd be happy to keep Green on the team for the price. I'm not sure we can trust him in the playoffs, but I'm confident it's not choking. Just look at his 3pt percentages through the season. He's ridiculously streaky. That's bad when he's cold, but can be awesome when he's hot. If DG had been on a cold streak in the first 2 playoff series last year, and got hot for the WCF, we could have had another ring. As it is, he got it the other way around, and we breezed through the first 2 rounds, and then the going got tough... His streakyness is only a problem if that becomes a pattern. Until then, give the kid a chance.

[Prime Time]

Sick of people calling Green a choker. Danny Green is the most consistent SG the Spurs have (Sorry Manu), It's amazing how quickly fans forget. He choked against OKC, Yes. But he also shot over 45% from three vs. Utah and LA. He played SOLID defense against Hayward/CP3, overall he steps up when Ginobili doesn't (which is more times than not, Unfortunately).

Look, his series vs. OKC was bad. Straight up horrid. But for a third year guard who just averaged 7.4mpg the two seasons prior, Can you blame him?

PS: Trade Green, Bonner, and Blair for Rudy Gay? :lmao

[Embedded]

I think Green needs another chance. That was his first playoff experience. He briungs good defensive on the wing.

[timvp]

To me, he's Danny Bonner. Great regular season player.

...

He's good in the regular season on offense. Great even. But I don't get why people are sooooo eager to downplay the OKC series. Did he shoot well against Utah and the Clippers? Yes. Did the Spurs need him to win? No. Did they need him against OKC? Yes. And he Bonner'd it.

That's too harsh, IMO.

First of all, Bonner never has had a good playoff series -- whether he was "needed" or not -- so just based on that, Green has surpassed Bonner. Bonner has a long, painful history of choking that even can be traced to how he tails off at the end of the regular season. Green had one horrific series.

(And we shouldn't short-change how good he was in the first two series. He was averaging 10+ points in less than 25 MPG on 50% shooting from the floor and >45% shooting on three-pointers. His D was also much better than usual. Advanced stats, from plus/minus to APM to RAPM had Green as one of the best players on the whole team -- with many of those stats pointing to him as THE best player on the team. Yeah, easy competition but Green delivered to the maximum of his ability in the first two playoff series of his career. That's pretty darn good and should shed him of the Bonner label in itself.)

Why did Green suck* against the Thunder? I see three possibilities:

1. He choked. The pressure got to him and he couldn't withstand it.

2. He was due for some regression to the mean since he had been shooting damn near 50% on threes for the previous couple months.

3. He got unlucky and the randomness of the sport of basketball came up snake-eyes at the wrong time.

The only one of those three to be worried about is No. 1. And even then, we should only be partially worried because plenty of young players struggle early in their playoff career before adjusting to the pressure and learning to thrive. So, yeah, if we want to view Green in the worst possible light, then we can hold that series over him until he proves otherwise. IMO, what is more logical is to keep an open mind. Yes, it sucks he failed against the Thunder but there are a lot more explanations other than to say he's undoubtedly a choker.

As others have mentioned, plenty of Spurs have done poorly in their first time in the playoffs for the Spurs only to bounce back. Tony Parker destroyed Gary Payton as a rookie but he didn't carry that level of play throughout those playoffs. He, as CoM is quick to mention, had his ups and downs in 2003 ... yet he's definitely not in the Bonner category. Ginobili was up and down as a rookie in the playoffs (he shot 20-something percent in the Finals and wasn't that great against the Mavs or Suns) ... and he turned out to be the ultimate winner. Hell, Tim Duncan wasn't that good in the Portland series in 1999.

Other examples: Stephen Jackson sucked in 2003 against the Lakers (if the Spurs lose that series, Jack would have been remembered as a choker rather than the clutch guy you remember). Bruce Bowen was terrible in his first playoff series with the Spurs (vs. the Sonics). Horry sucked in 2004. Claxton sucked for most of the 2003 playoffs. Kerr sucked every series until that Mavs series during his second stint with the Spurs.

You can go right down the line and just about every player on the Spurs has had a horrible series. Sometimes they were saved by their teammates so those series are forgotten. Sometimes they weren't saved and they are remembered as chokers. If the Spurs beat OKC and Green bouncing back against the Heat, he gets >$6M per year in free agency and is hailed as a hero ... pretty much just like Jack in 2003. It's fickle.

We need to be careful handing out Bonneritis claims. That's a serious diagnosis and one that should indicate that beyond all shadow of a doubt, a player is a choker for life and can only be trusted in the regular season. Maybe Green fits that bill but it's way too early to claim it as a certainty. One bad series does not a Bonner make.



*despite Green's sucking, the Spurs still outscored the Thunder when he was on the court during that series.

[dallasmaverickslose]

That's too harsh, IMO.

First of all, Bonner never has had a good playoff series -- whether he was "needed" or not -- so just based on that, Green has surpassed Bonner. Bonner has a long, painful history of choking that even can be traced to how he tails off at the end of the regular season. Green had one horrific series.

(And we shouldn't short-change how good he was in the first two series. He was averaging 10+ points in less than 25 MPG on 50% shooting from the floor and >45% shooting on three-pointers. His D was also much better than usual. Advanced stats, from plus/minus to APM to RAPM had Green as one of the best players on the whole team -- with many of those stats pointing to him as THE best player on the team. Yeah, easy competition but Green delivered to the maximum of his ability in the first two playoff series of his career. That's pretty darn good and should shed him of the Bonner label in itself.)

Why did Green suck* against the Thunder? I see three possibilities:

1. He choked. The pressure got to him and he couldn't withstand it.

2. He was due for some regression to the mean since he had been shooting damn near 50% on threes for the previous couple months.

3. He got unlucky and the randomness of the sport of basketball came up snake-eyes at the wrong time.

The only one of those three to be worried about is No. 1. And even then, we should only be partially worried because plenty of young players struggle early in their playoff career before adjusting to the pressure and learning to thrive. So, yeah, if we want to view Green in the worst possible light, then we can hold that series over him until he proves otherwise. IMO, what is more logical is to keep an open mind. Yes, it sucks he failed against the Thunder but there are a lot more explanations other than to say he's undoubtedly a choker.

As others have mentioned, plenty of Spurs have done poorly in their first time in the playoffs for the Spurs only to bounce back. Tony Parker destroyed Gary Payton as a rookie but he didn't carry that level of play throughout those playoffs. He, as CoM is quick to mention, had his ups and downs in 2003 ... yet he's definitely not in the Bonner category. Ginobili was up and down as a rookie in the playoffs (he shot 20-something percent in the Finals and wasn't that great against the Mavs or Suns) ... and he turned out to be the ultimate winner. Hell, Tim Duncan wasn't that good in the Portland series in 1999.

Other examples: Stephen Jackson sucked in 2003 against the Lakers (if the Spurs lose that series, Jack would have been remembered as a choker rather than the clutch guy you remember). Bruce Bowen was terrible in his first playoff series with the Spurs (vs. the Sonics). Horry sucked in 2004. Claxton sucked for most of the 2003 playoffs. Kerr sucked every series until that Mavs series during his second stint with the Spurs.

You can go right down the line and just about every player on the Spurs has had a horrible series. Sometimes they were saved by their teammates so those series are forgotten. Sometimes they weren't saved and they are remembered as chokers. If the Spurs beat OKC and Green bouncing back against the Heat, he gets >$6M per year in free agency and is hailed as a hero ... pretty much just like Jack in 2003. It's fickle.

We need to be careful handing out Bonneritis claims. That's a serious diagnosis and one that should indicate that beyond all shadow of a doubt, a player is a choker for life and can only be trusted in the regular season. Maybe Green fits that bill but it's way too early to claim it as a certainty. One bad series does not a Bonner make.



*despite Green's sucking, the Spurs still outscored the Thunder when he was on the court during that series.

That's what I think. All players have their slump periods. That's what he's going through. Wheras, players like Blair and Bonner are career-slumpers.

[objective]

That's too harsh, IMO.

First of all, Bonner never has had a good playoff series -- whether he was "needed" or not -- so just based on that, Green has surpassed Bonner. Bonner has a long, painful history of choking that even can be traced to how he tails off at the end of the regular season. Green had one horrific series.

(And we shouldn't short-change how good he was in the first two series. He was averaging 10+ points in less than 25 MPG on 50% shooting from the floor and >45% shooting on three-pointers. His D was also much better than usual. Advanced stats, from plus/minus to APM to RAPM had Green as one of the best players on the whole team -- with many of those stats pointing to him as THE best player on the team. Yeah, easy competition but Green delivered to the maximum of his ability in the first two playoff series of his career. That's pretty darn good and should shed him of the Bonner label in itself.)

Why did Green suck* against the Thunder? I see three possibilities:

1. He choked. The pressure got to him and he couldn't withstand it.

2. He was due for some regression to the mean since he had been shooting damn near 50% on threes for the previous couple months.

3. He got unlucky and the randomness of the sport of basketball came up snake-eyes at the wrong time.

The only one of those three to be worried about is No. 1. And even then, we should only be partially worried because plenty of young players struggle early in their playoff career before adjusting to the pressure and learning to thrive. So, yeah, if we want to view Green in the worst possible light, then we can hold that series over him until he proves otherwise. IMO, what is more logical is to keep an open mind. Yes, it sucks he failed against the Thunder but there are a lot more explanations other than to say he's undoubtedly a choker.

As others have mentioned, plenty of Spurs have done poorly in their first time in the playoffs for the Spurs only to bounce back. Tony Parker destroyed Gary Payton as a rookie but he didn't carry that level of play throughout those playoffs. He, as CoM is quick to mention, had his ups and downs in 2003 ... yet he's definitely not in the Bonner category. Ginobili was up and down as a rookie in the playoffs (he shot 20-something percent in the Finals and wasn't that great against the Mavs or Suns) ... and he turned out to be the ultimate winner. Hell, Tim Duncan wasn't that good in the Portland series in 1999.

Other examples: Stephen Jackson sucked in 2003 against the Lakers (if the Spurs lose that series, Jack would have been remembered as a choker rather than the clutch guy you remember). Bruce Bowen was terrible in his first playoff series with the Spurs (vs. the Sonics). Horry sucked in 2004. Claxton sucked for most of the 2003 playoffs. Kerr sucked every series until that Mavs series during his second stint with the Spurs.

You can go right down the line and just about every player on the Spurs has had a horrible series. Sometimes they were saved by their teammates so those series are forgotten. Sometimes they weren't saved and they are remembered as chokers. If the Spurs beat OKC and Green bouncing back against the Heat, he gets >$6M per year in free agency and is hailed as a hero ... pretty much just like Jack in 2003. It's fickle.

We need to be careful handing out Bonneritis claims. That's a serious diagnosis and one that should indicate that beyond all shadow of a doubt, a player is a choker for life and can only be trusted in the regular season. Maybe Green fits that bill but it's way too early to claim it as a certainty. One bad series does not a Bonner make.



*despite Green's sucking, the Spurs still outscored the Thunder when he was on the court during that series.

I already posted that I might be too harsh with the Bonner tag, and already noted he's had series where he was likely better than Bonner ever was.

The advanced stats for the other two series show their flaws . . . he wasn't the best player. Just like Bonner has never been the Spurs best player all those times his numbers made him out to be the Spurs MVP.

All these past bad series of Spurs gone by are all true. BUT . . . Bonner was still Bonner. What does this mean? It means some people (like me) had Bonner pegged years, and I mean years, before anyone else and before he had years and years of failure to finally convince others. And there are still Bonner loyalists hiding in the weeds, skulking about their plus/minus shrines. Unfortunately, I don't think Green does enough to stay on the court when his shot isn't falling (or when he passes up shots) in a contested playoff series. His over-rated defense couldn't keep him in the rotation against OKC. Having good on-floor numbers when playing with Duncan, Diaw, Parker, and Leonard doesn't carry a lot with me. Maybe that's on Pop, and a Pop mistake in the postseason would be logical considering all of Pop's typical shenanigans, but I'm not there with you guys.

I don't trust Danny Green in the playoffs. I didn't think he was anything special when he first started getting minutes. I still don't. He's better that I thought, but I still don't see it.

I do trust Kawhi Leonard. And it's not because of some speculative fondness for his absence or weird church obsessions (I don't take part in that stuff). It's because when I watch him, I see a player I can trust. I see someone who can stick on the court even if he's missing shots, or passing up shots, or not even getting the ball.

If Green proves me wrong, great. I have no problem admitting mistakes. If Kawhi proves me wrong, then that's terrible, but I'd still admit it.

Let's just agree to it, with regards to the title of the thread: You guys buy Danny Green in the playoffs. I don't.

[Paranoid Pop]

What is inarguably Bonnerish ois his skillset, aside from the 3 ball he can't do shit, it's too easy to shutdown come playoff time vs serious teams, that's why they can't have playoff success. It's not even mental, it's just what it is, you're a SG and can't finish at the rim, can't really pass, have an ugly off the dribble game, then bad things will happen when you got real playoff defense in front of you. And his D is overrated.

Anyway he's good enough to get us something good via trade, that's a huge already and I'm thankful for that, hopefully the FO doesn't pull a Bonner...

Also, kinda off topic but it makes my eyes bleed when I see post mentioning that Pop is some kind of Guardiola playing total basketball when he's playing Danny Greens and Matt Bonners.

Total basketball would be something like : TP KY Boris Derrick-Williams Tim, you can switch the defense at any position basically, the monkeyballers can hit the 3, rebound and defend, the other 3 can do anything with the ball.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I just want to see Green start playing Defense again. I really haven't seen it all all from this year. Just bombing 3's and not locking anyone down won't get it done for the Spurs. Especially not from someone who starts.

[benefactor]

Maybe you'll find a Barry or two.
Well played.

[Spurs7794]

All these past bad series of Spurs gone by are all true. BUT . . . Bonner was still Bonner. What does this mean? It means some people (like me) had Bonner pegged years, and I mean years, before anyone else and before he had years and years of failure to finally convince others.

One thing though...I think theres a HUGE difference between Bonner and Green. Ever since Bonner became a Spur, he was hesitant in crunch time. Anyone who knows basketball could tell he wasn't going to be a big time player. The reason I don't think Green is like Bonner is that he just kept shooting in the WCF last year and didn't just pussy foot around. Sure he sucked badly, but he kept firing away in the 4th quarter of game 2 as the Thunder came charging back. While that isn't always a great attribute, I think his missing alot of shots is immensely different from Bonner getting rid of the ball like it's plutonium. I firmly believe that he had a good chance to shoot his way out of the funk if Pop hadn't messed things up and changed the lineup in game 5.

[DapDaGenius]

I like Green for what I know he is able to offer the team, but I dislike him for his inconsistency. I think he'll be worth keeping if he could just be consistent....oh and not choke in the playoffs.

Also, I'd love it if the Spurs could somehow, by some chance get Rudy Gay on the team.

[Malik Hairston]

I've been skeptical of Danny Green from the beginning, he hasn't done anything to change my perception..agreed with objective, as usual..

I acknowledge that it's certainly possible that Green could have suffered from one poor series and has plenty of time to turn his playoff career around..however, it is very easy for a good defensive team to exploit a one-dimensional offensive player in the playoffs..Green cannot dribble, he can't drive, he can't finish..he's merely a spot-up shooter, albeit a very good spot-up shooter..

Last year's Jazz team was poor and the Clippers' best player was noticeably limited by injury..Green deserves credit for playing well, but defending Gordon Hayward and Chris Paul on one leg isn't special..Green is a good defensive player in certain scenarios, but he has notable flaws in a few particular facets of defense, unlike a true perimeter stopper..particularly defending through screens, where he's terrible..

I like him as a 7th/8th man, but his defense isn't good enough to negate poor shooting when he's in a slump, especially if it occurs during the playoffs(unlike a player that can create his own shot to get out of a funk)..

[therealtruth]

I already posted that I might be too harsh with the Bonner tag, and already noted he's had series where he was likely better than Bonner ever was.

The advanced stats for the other two series show their flaws . . . he wasn't the best player. Just like Bonner has never been the Spurs best player all those times his numbers made him out to be the Spurs MVP.

All these past bad series of Spurs gone by are all true. BUT . . . Bonner was still Bonner. What does this mean? It means some people (like me) had Bonner pegged years, and I mean years, before anyone else and before he had years and years of failure to finally convince others. And there are still Bonner loyalists hiding in the weeds, skulking about their plus/minus shrines. Unfortunately, I don't think Green does enough to stay on the court when his shot isn't falling (or when he passes up shots) in a contested playoff series. His over-rated defense couldn't keep him in the rotation against OKC. Having good on-floor numbers when playing with Duncan, Diaw, Parker, and Leonard doesn't carry a lot with me. Maybe that's on Pop, and a Pop mistake in the postseason would be logical considering all of Pop's typical shenanigans, but I'm not there with you guys.

I don't trust Danny Green in the playoffs. I didn't think he was anything special when he first started getting minutes. I still don't. He's better that I thought, but I still don't see it.

I do trust Kawhi Leonard. And it's not because of some speculative fondness for his absence or weird church obsessions (I don't take part in that stuff). It's because when I watch him, I see a player I can trust. I see someone who can stick on the court even if he's missing shots, or passing up shots, or not even getting the ball.

If Green proves me wrong, great. I have no problem admitting mistakes. If Kawhi proves me wrong, then that's terrible, but I'd still admit it.

Let's just agree to it, with regards to the title of the thread: You guys buy Danny Green in the playoffs. I don't.

To me it's simple as who do you have more faith in Manu or DG? I'd rather have Manu starting where I know he has the experience. There's no reason DG can't do his thing from the bench where there's less at stake in the playoffs. Pop ended up starting Manu anyway. Why wait?

[SpursRock20]

Once again failed to show up in the clutch.

[SpursOwn]

So fucking done with this scrub. If he has a career ending injury, I honestly would laugh. F him.

[Spurs7794]

Once again failed to show up in the clutch.


I'm starting to wonder whether my interpretation of choking is different from others. Danny Green is a 42% three point shooter. He missed a wide open three on a broken play and then a contested bad shot the next possession. How does that mean he choked? A 42% shooter doesn't make EVERY SINGLE SHOT even when there is no pressure...you can't expect him to make every open shot.

This season, he's had 2 games with a chance to tie or win at then end. In one, he won the game. The other (tonight), he missed. Doesn't mean he's a choker.

[Sean Cagney]

I'm starting to wonder whether my interpretation of choking is different from others. Danny Green is a 42% three point shooter. He missed a wide open three on a broken play and then a contested bad shot the next possession. How does that mean he choked? A 42% shooter doesn't make EVERY SINGLE SHOT even when there is no pressure...you can't expect him to make every open shot.

This season, he's had 2 games with a chance to tie or win at then end. In one, he won the game. The other (tonight), he missed. Doesn't mean he's a choker.I don't think you get what they mean by choking, he can shoot 42% all year and then in a big series or a game late he misses! He can make the first 2 or so and then miss the last two or so, choking doesn't just mean you shoot a high % otherwise Bonner would never be criticized for choking when it counts. He did beat LA and that was great, think others are looking back at the OKC series and tonight etc. for how he shows up when it counts. I will give him a shot, not done with him yet but he did bad tonight at the end.

[SpursRock20]

Didn't call him a choker. Called him out for not showing up in the clutch tonight. He seemingly shoots much more poorly when the shots actually mean something late in games.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ddcuNktM1rzhv5ho1_500.gif

[Spurs7794]

Well I guess I'm reacting because I knew this thread was going to explode tonight. I just find it odd that alot of people are labeling him so quickly. To me, a choker is someone who does it consistently (Bonner, Peja, Doug Christie), rather than a guy who had one bad series and missed two big shots tonight.

[DesignatedT]

Green shit the bed tonight.

[timtonymanu]

So fucking done with this scrub. If he has a career ending injury, I honestly would laugh. F him.

So you wont take it personally if I said "End your life then."

[SpursRock20]

Well I guess I'm reacting because I knew this thread was going to explode tonight. I just find it odd that alot of people are labeling him so quickly. To me, a choker is someone who does it consistently (Bonner, Peja, Doug Christie), rather than a guy who had one bad series and missed two big shots tonight.

It doesn't help that we have Jack sitting on the bench just begging to hit a clutch shot. He doesn't even need a whole lot of room like Green to get his shot off, either. Not Green's fault that he was in and Jack was out, but it leads to us fans getting upset.

[Strategic]

Green shit the bed tonight.

Careful now, all the little Cindy's on here think he's Justin Beiber.

[Spurs7794]

It doesn't help that we have Jack sitting on the bench just begging to hit a clutch shot. He doesn't even need a whole lot of room like Green to get his shot off, either. Not Green's fault that he was in and Jack was out, but it leads to us fans getting upset.

Oh don't get me wrong, I was upset that Pop put Green out there. I just don't think he necessarily choked. Thing is, I would only put him out there if I was going to draw up a play for him (ie the Lakers game) or he was having a good shooting night from downtown. (which he wasn't).

Again, I'm more reacting to the people who want him off the team now...the guy is our 8th or 9th best player. He doesn't have to be some savior at the end of games for him to be successful.

[SpursRock20]

Oh don't get me wrong, I was upset that Pop put Green out there. I just don't think he necessarily choked. Thing is, I would only put him out there if I was going to draw up a play for him (ie the Lakers game) or he was having a good shooting night from downtown. (which he wasn't).

Again, I'm more reacting to the people who want him off the team now...the guy is our 8th or 9th best player. He doesn't have to be some savior at the end of games for him to be successful.

True. And as our 8th or 9th best player, this team will be going nowhere fast if he plays in crunch time during the playoffs. I don't trust him and don't like the thought of drawing up a play for him. But that's just me.

[Sean Cagney]

Oh don't get me wrong, I was upset that Pop put Green out there. I just don't think he necessarily choked. Thing is, I would only put him out there if I was going to draw up a play for him (ie the Lakers game) or he was having a good shooting night from downtown. (which he wasn't).

Again, I'm more reacting to the people who want him off the team now...the guy is our 8th or 9th best player. He doesn't have to be some savior at the end of games for him to be successful.
See that is puzzling, he showed no signs of turning it around tonight and POP keeps him out there? WTF is wrong with POP? Does he see something nobody on Earth does at times? The problem is not the player alot of times to me it's POPs rotations or who he keeps in at the worst times. I know he is a great coach but at times I shake my head.

[Spurs7794]

See that is puzzling, he showed no signs of turning it around tonight and POP keeps him out there? WTF is wrong with POP? Does he see something nobody on Earth does at times? The problem is not the player alot of times to me it's POPs rotations or who he keeps in at the worst times. I know he is a great coach but at times I shake my head.

I think he was trying to show Green he has confidence in him. Unfortunately, I don't think this was the type of game to do that in.

[TDMVPDPOY]

danny green doesnt care, cause his working on his dancing skills...

[KaiRMD1]

It's funny but Bonner, Green & Blair are all season players, not playoff players and after last season's chokejob against the Thunder, I lost faith in him completely. He was like the new RJ

[Spurs7794]

It's funny but Bonner, Green & Blair are all season players, not playoff players and after last season's chokejob against the Thunder, I lost faith in him completely. He was like the new RJ

This is what I don't understand...how is he the new RJ? RJ would float around and do SHIT game after game...show no aggressiveness, no fire or anything. RJ had the talent but not the heart. Green atleast puts in the effort and helps out on the boards and defense. He is nothing like RJ.

[BackHome]

If I wanted to stop someone i would put in Green if I wanted to hit a three I would have put in Mills or Neal.

[crc21209]

Damn...alot hate on Danny Green in here right now huh? To be fair, I don't think the Spurs could trade him or pick up anybody that would give the team a better shot at winning than he does. He's a role player, nothing more...nothing less. He'll have nights like the one in Charlotte where he went off with 6 or 7 threes, and then he'll have nights like tonight where he goes 1-5 or whatever it was. But we've seen that he CAN have some pretty damn good moments. For example the game winner against the Lakers In LA, and the defense/steal against Lin in Houston. He'll be fine. He might not hit 6 or 7 threes again in a game, but he'll be decent, which is all we can expect from the guy....

[chapnis]

I just don't understand why he is in the game in crucial moments.

[crc21209]

I just don't understand why he is in the game in crucial moments.

On the offense end, I have no idea. Especially on a night when he was cold. I'm cool with Green out there on the defensive end to get a stop, but not on the offensive end. Pop clearly should have gone with Jackson or Neal there...

[smaka]

He has nothing to do in the game when there is to be or not to be situation. I was pissed when I saw him in the game at the end of 4Q and even more pissed when he missed 2 shots and when he almost lost the ball due to his bad ball handling.

[Tuddy]

Burnt Kirby pretty good earlier in the season for the game winner

[MoSpur]

He's limited on offense. His defense seems to be fading. The Spurs as a whole seem to be fading. Hopefully they snap out of it

[DapDaGenius]

Didn't call him a choker. Called him out for not showing up in the clutch tonight. He seemingly shoots much more poorly when the shots actually mean something late in games.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8ddcuNktM1rzhv5ho1_500.gif

:lmao

But this is very true.

[freetiago]

He got his contract
spurs should just cut him and sign a bunch of 10 day contract players tbh
you know they will hustle
and all they have to do is hit 3s at 40% from the corners

[Hoops Czar]

How many damn Green threads does there need to be? This has been talked about ad nauseam unless posters get a thrill out of recycling the same questions over and over again.

[LASToog36]

How many damn Green threads does there need to be? This has been talked about ad nauseam unless posters get a thrill out of recycling the same questions over and over again.


bring him back to ur garbage ass cavaliers team

[FireMicoHalili]

A streak shooter is all this guy is. Wouldn't be averse to dealing him. Anyone else we can get for this guy?

[mikec]

So fucking done with this scrub. If he has a career ending injury, I honestly would laugh. F him.

If you died in a car crash, I honestly think no one would care. F you.

[Hoops Czar]

bring him back to ur garbage ass cavaliers team There's no trophy for second place whether you win 5 games or 60 games. The end result is the same. Some teams bow out earlier than others. As far as Green is concerned, if you were even the least bit resourceful, you'd know that Cleveland waived him so why would they want to take him back? He gives a floundering franchise virtually zero forward momentum as the Cavs are content with building for the future. He's only got a job in the NBA because he found a team willing to accept his flaws and can cover up his many mistakes with the depth of the roster. He's only good at one thing, only about half the time. The only thing that puts him above d-league level is his seasoning and experience. In SA's case, better to go with experience than tackling the unknown.

[LASToog36]

There's no trophy for second place whether you win 5 games or 60 games. The end result is the same. Some teams bow out earlier than others. As far as Green is concerned, if you were even the least bit resourceful, you'd know that Cleveland waived him so why would they want to take him back? He gives a floundering franchise virtually zero forward momentum as the Cavs are content with building for the future. He's only got a job in the NBA because he found a team willing to accept his flaws and can cover up his many mistakes with the depth of the roster. He's only good at one thing, only about half the time. The only thing that puts him above d-league level is his seasoning and experience. In SA's case, better to go with experience than tackling the unknown.

At the moment i think the cavaliers could use anyones garbage on their roster after being blown out by the Lakers. and building for the future?? the cavaliers had varejao and Lbj a decent team and still couldnt win a championship. Basically you guys rebuilt and still fell short now noone wants to go there.if you guys cant win with LBJ or rebuild around him hate to say it but you all "suck". what u guys should realize is a lot has to do with the bad fo and coaching..my suggestion is find a new team, i heard seattles gotta new team brewing. so instead lurking around sc wishing for a team you dont have keep your two cents to urself.

[Hoops Czar]

At the moment i think the cavaliers could use anyones garbage on their roster after being blown out by the Lakers. and building for the future?? the cavaliers had varejao and Lbj a decent team and still couldnt win a championship. Basically you guys rebuilt and still fell short now noone wants to go there.if you guys cant win with LBJ or rebuild around him hate to say it but you all "suck". what u guys should realize is a lot has to do with the bad fo and coaching..my suggestion is find a new team, i heard seattles gotta new team brewing. so instead lurking around sc wishing for a team you dont have keep your two cents to urself.

First of all, I don't play for the Cavs so it's not "you" all suck. Second of all, saying LBJ and Varejao sucked because they couldn't win a championship is like saying the Spurs sucked in the 90's because they couldn't win a championship with the admiral and Elliott. I don't what kind of player yo think Varejao is, but he's not a game changer and he certainly wasn't the player then that he is now.

As for the LBJ era, they had Lebron and a bunch of scrubby role players. Mo Williams, not Varejao was their second best player on the team. Make no mistake about it, Lebron carried that team on his back and he had very little help along the way. If Duncan didn't have the likes of Robinson, Ginobili, Parker and Bowen on his roster, Duncan wouldn't have didley. Now would be a good time to get off your high horse because in 4 or 5 years, the Spurs will be in the same situation as the Cavs are currently.

[Paranoid Pop]

Green does have significant trade value, he's pretty young and has a great stroke and has potential on D, and obviously he got better since his cavs days.

[Paranoid Pop]

There's no trophy for second place whether you win 5 games or 60 games. The end result is the same. Some teams bow out earlier than others. As far as Green is concerned, if you were even the least bit resourceful, you'd know that Cleveland waived him so why would they want to take him back? He gives a floundering franchise virtually zero forward momentum as the Cavs are content with building for the future. He's only got a job in the NBA because he found a team willing to accept his flaws and can cover up his many mistakes with the depth of the roster. He's only good at one thing, only about half the time. The only thing that puts him above d-league level is his seasoning and experience. In SA's case, better to go with experience than tackling the unknown.

No, we don't need him and we could use a PF, we're better off trading him, and he's not viewed as the scrub you make him out to be, don't get me wrong I don't like his game, but plenty of teams would be interested, maybe even the Cavs.

[100%duncan]

Get rid of him tbh.

[Ice009]

How many damn Green threads does there need to be? This has been talked about ad nauseam unless posters get a thrill out of recycling the same questions over and over again.

Green for Irving, you say? Done!

[Cry Havoc]

To all the geniuses in this thread: Who do we trade Green for? He makes $3 mil this season. What are we going to get back in value that's even close to that?

[Raven]

I don't understand what is up with his D, sometimes it is so awesome it makes you stand up and scream, sometimes it just sucks balls..

[superbigtime]

Inconsistency is maddening, and the Spurs have alot of them... Neal, Green, Diaw are the three that come to mind. Even Kawhi. This is why they are such 'bargains.'

[therealtruth]

In all honesty you guys should be grateful for Green. He could have probably signed somewhere else for more but chose to be underpaid since the Spurs gave him a chance.

[Mel_13]

In all honesty you guys should be grateful for Green. He could have probably signed somewhere else for more but chose to be underpaid since the Spurs gave him a chance.

There's absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.

[therealtruth]

There's absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.

You don't think some other team would have overpaid for Green if he didn't sign with the Spurs? He even said on his Twitter feed that he could have got more if he really wanted.

[Mel_13]

You don't think some other team would have overpaid for Green if he didn't sign with the Spurs? He even said on his Twitter feed that he could have got more if he really wanted.

He was on the market and talked to some other teams. I don't recall any report that any team offered Green a contract, let alone that there was a team prepared to pay him substantially more than the Spurs. I would be interested in reading that tweet if you would provide a link.

[Cry Havoc]

You don't think some other team would have overpaid for Green if he didn't sign with the Spurs? He even said on his Twitter feed that he could have got more if he really wanted.

Wow. Actually, you should just stop posting entirely. 3300 posts is not enough to stop you from throwing out flat out lies for your takes.

[Paranoid Pop]

Missed another dunk, might be the worst dunker I've ever seen tbh for someone who tries that many... The defensive game plan for him is so simple its scary. Bonnerish.

[Strategic]

A good role player my ass!:wakeup I don't remember Pop using "filler" players for role players on the starting five during the Spurs championship teams. It's strange that all the experienced Philosophical posters on ST are backing Green, just as they did Bonner. I remember Bowen and Horry, does anyone else? They may be heroes on the street but they were animals on the court.:wtf Green cannot guard the small forwards worth a shit, he can't guard the likes of Durant or Kobe(George Hill says hello) and he can't play point guard(see last parenthesis). "Green didn't score much, but we don't need him to. He can't guard anyone really good, but that's ok. We were able to rest him with the 35 year olds, so he should be ready next time. They're only paying him 3 mil., so what do you expect":bang:bang:bang:bang

[Cry Havoc]

A good role player my ass!:wakeup I don't remember Pop using "filler" players for role players on the starting five during the Spurs championship teams. It's strange that all the experienced Philosophical posters on ST are backing Green, just as they did Bonner. I remember Bowen and Horry, does anyone else? They may be heroes on the street but they were animals on the court.:wtf Green cannot guard the small forwards worth a shit, he can't guard the likes of Durant or Kobe(George Hill says hello) and he can't play point guard(see last parenthesis). "Green didn't score much, but we don't need him to. He can't guard anyone really good, but that's ok. We were able to rest him with the 35 year olds, so he should be ready next time. They're only paying him 3 mil., so what do you expect":bang:bang:bang:bang

Avery Johnson? Nazr Mohammed? Oberto? Malik Rose? Fransisco Elson?

[Cry Havoc]

Michael Finley? Brent Barry?

[Strategic]

Avery Johnson? Nazr Mohammed? Oberto? Malik Rose? Fransisco Elson?It looks as if you're placing Green in the same catagory with these players?

[Cry Havoc]

It looks as if you're placing Green in the same catagory with these players?

Are you saying that Avery, Mohammed, Oberto, etc., are not role players? Are they stars, then? Guys who could take over games on their own? Because Green has this year.

[Strategic]

Are you saying that Avery, Mohammed, Oberto, etc., are not role players? Are they stars, then? Guys who could take over games on their own? Because Green has this year.


It sounds like you would be happy with a team full of Greens. Maybe you're right. It's kind of opposite of the Spurs' past successes when they started with young stars and added experienced vets, isn't it? I'm not saying Green is really that young though, since he will be 26 this summer. He should be reaching the peak of his game. Role players without any flexibility may be coming back in style. Ten more years of what were seeing from him right now might just do the trick. You mention Greens' ability to take over games. The role players that I mentioned, Horry and Bowen do bring back memories of game changing contributions, and in the playoffs. By the time Duncan, Ginobili and Parker were 25, they had all led their team to two NBA titles. I consider the role players that you listed as ones that provided a big contribution to those NBA titles, I'm not yet willing as you to put Green in either of those list, but I guess that's why lists' have blank room at the end, so that more names can be added.

[Cry Havoc]

It sounds like you would be happy with a team full of Greens. Maybe you're right. It's kind of opposite of the Spurs' past successes when they started with young stars and added experienced vets, isn't it? I'm not saying Green is really that young though, since he will be 26 this summer. He should be reaching the peak of his game. Role players without any flexibility may be coming back in style. Ten more years of what were seeing from him right now might just do the trick. You mention Greens' ability to take over games. The role players that I mentioned, Horry and Bowen do bring back memories of game changing contributions, and in the playoffs. By the time Duncan, Ginobili and Parker were 25, they had all led their team to two NBA titles. I consider the role players that you listed as ones that provided a big contribution to those NBA titles, I'm not yet willing as you to put Green in either of those list, but I guess that's why lists' have blank room at the end, so that more names can be added.

What? Of course not. That's not what I said. However, are there any teams aside from the Lakers that have NO role players in their starting 5? Miami does, OKC does, Memphis does, it's nearly impossible *not* to have role players.

I would be THRILLED if every wing we brought off the bench could play Green's defense, even if it's a bit inconsistent, and bomb threes at over a 40% mark. Do you realize how rare that is? Ray Allen made a career out of JUST shooting 3s at that clip and playing mostly average to shitty defense. If Green had 3 good series last year instead of just 2, we're probably playing the Heat in the finals.

I think this year he's going to be a lot more settled in the playoffs. It takes some time, but one bad playoff series and people want to sell on a $3mil player who's one of the best sharpshooters in the league and plays well above average defense.

[Strategic]

What? Of course not. That's not what I said. However, are there any teams aside from the Lakers that have NO role players in their starting 5? Miami does, OKC does, Memphis does, it's nearly impossible *not* to have role players.

I would be THRILLED if every wing we brought off the bench could play Green's defense, even if it's a bit inconsistent, and bomb threes at over a 40% mark. Do you realize how rare that is? Ray Allen made a career out of JUST shooting 3s at that clip and playing mostly average to shitty defense. If Green had 3 good series last year instead of just 2, we're probably playing the Heat in the finals.

I think this year he's going to be a lot more settled in the playoffs. It takes some time, but one bad playoff series and people want to sell on a $3mil player who's one of the best sharpshooters in the league and plays well above average defense.

Wow brother it sounds like you're comparing Green with Ray Allen.
Sefolosha, Durant, Westbrook, Parker, Green, Leonard, Chalmers, Wade, James,Kidd, Shumpert, Anthony, Paul, Green, Butler. This is a list of back court starters for the tip five(perhaps) teams in the league this year, if you can count three positions as back court. I'd be interested to hear where you thought Green fits in this list. I hate the argument that he comes cheap so he is a keeper, although it's used often on ST. FYI, I don't hold Green at all responsible for last years loss to OKC. I'm watching him play tonight and I don't see all the greatness that you speak of.

[SpursRock20]

Once the playoffs begin, this is how you play him.... If he's hitting his shots (~ 40% clip) then play him around 25 minutes per game. If he misses three to four in a row, sit him early and play Jack and Manu extended minutes.

[Chinook]

Once the playoffs begin, this is how you play him.... If he's hitting his shots (~ 40% clip) then play him around 25 minutes per game. If he misses three to four in a row, sit him early and play Jack and Manu extended minutes.

Last year, I'd agree with you. This year, though, he's been much better at playing good defense even when he shot's not falling. He's had games like the Wolves game where he doesn't score but pretty much shuts down everyone he guards.

I think you keep in him if he's still playing good defense and rebounding well and if the team is scoring well enough without him.

[SpursRock20]

Last year, I'd agree with you. This year, though, he's been much better at playing good defense even when he shot's not falling. He's had games like the Wolves game where he doesn't score but pretty much shuts down everyone he guards.

I think you keep in him if he's still playing good defense and rebounding well and if the team is scoring well enough without him.

I see where you are coming from but teams like Minnesota do not play in the playoffs nor have an offensive threat at the SG spot. Bottom line is that he can not have an off series against the Clippers or Thunder. Maybe in the first round if he plays good defense while shooting poorly, but in the second and third rounds, it's not a risk the Spurs should be willing to take. Speaking of, we might have to go through BOTH the Thunder and the Clippers this post season. That would be nearly impossible to do IMO that's why the one seed is even more important for the Spurs than in years past.

[dbestpro]

i understand why people would like to see a better starting SG on the Spurs. But, just look around the league and the starting SG position may be the weakest that I have ever seen going back to the early 70s.

[Paranoid Pop]

i understand why people would like to see a better starting SG on the Spurs. But, just look around the league and the starting SG position may be the weakest that I have ever seen going back to the early 70s.

Well trying coming up with other SG who can't dunk, put the ball on the floor or pass the ball...

[Cry Havoc]

Wow brother it sounds like you're comparing Green with Ray Allen.

Not yet, but he's a career 40% 3 point shooter. Do you know Allen for anything else besides his 3 ball? Green is already better on defense, so yes, I think the comparison, however early, deserves some merit. Do you know how rare it is to find someone who hits 3s at over 40% and plays good defense?


Sefolosha, Durant, Westbrook, Parker, Green, Leonard, Chalmers, Wade, James,Kidd, Shumpert, Anthony, Paul, Green, Butler. This is a list of back court starters for the tip five(perhaps) teams in the league this year, if you can count three positions as back court. I'd be interested to hear where you thought Green fits in this list. I hate the argument that he comes cheap so he is a keeper, although it's used often on ST. FYI, I don't hold Green at all responsible for last years loss to OKC. I'm watching him play tonight and I don't see all the greatness that you speak of.

But Green isn't our best SG. That's Manu. Do you want to compare Green's salary to these guys above? Because I guarantee you that if the Spurs had Manu's salary to spend on a 2 guard, they could go out and get someone pretty damn productive. In the meantime, Green is more than serviceable as a pseudo-starter who can mature and fit into the system better. Unless you think there's a better guard out there for ANY amount of money right now?

It just blows my mind that people think top tier SGs are just falling out of the sky. If you're going to bitch about Green's production/talent, fine, but what other options do we have at this point?

[Paranoid Pop]

Not yet, but he's a career 40% 3 point shooter. Do you know Allen for anything else besides his 3 ball? Green is already better on defense, so yes, I think the comparison, however early, deserves some merit. Do you know how rare it is to find someone who hits 3s at over 40% and plays good defense?



But Green isn't our best SG. That's Manu. Do you want to compare Green's salary to these guys above? Because I guarantee you that if the Spurs had Manu's salary to spend on a 2 guard, they could go out and get someone pretty damn productive. In the meantime, Green is more than serviceable as a pseudo-starter who can mature and fit into the system better. Unless you think there's a better guard out there for ANY amount of money right now?

It just blows my mind that people think top tier SGs are just falling out of the sky. If you're going to bitch about Green's production/talent, fine, but what other options do we have at this point?

Thing is even a James Anderson can do so much more with the ball, he had great passing instincts and the ability to drive...

[Paranoid Pop]

I'd argue that De Colo is also a better SG than Green.

[Paranoid Pop]

It's crazy how the not so mad scientist tried 3 different starting Pf but couldn't be happier with Danny Green. Blows my mind.

[SpursRock20]

Players shoot at a much better clip from 3 thanks to the Spurs system. All of his shots are basically open from the wing or corner. Allen on the other hand can create his own 3 point shot and has a much quicker release. Allen is a much better shooter and more clutch than Green. Can't really compare the two.

[Strategic]

It just blows my mind that people think top tier SGs are just falling out of the sky. If you're going to bitch about Green's production/talent, fine, but what other options do we have at this point?

Hey friend between Manu and Green the Spurs are paying 18.5 million for the shooting guard position this year. The spurs should have the best damn 2 guard in the league on the court all the time. Manu pulls his weight but Green is a system success. Manu can playmake. Heaven forbid if Green broke his leg tonight the team wouldn't miss a beat for the rest of the year. Your first sentence here says that we agree on Greens abilities, The second sentence,well, it's big men that there is a shortage of in the league and D league, not shooting guards.

[Cry Havoc]

A good role player my ass!:wakeup I don't remember Pop using "filler" players for role players on the starting five during the Spurs championship teams. It's strange that all the experienced Philosophical posters on ST are backing Green, just as they did Bonner. I remember Bowen and Horry, does anyone else? They may be heroes on the street but they were animals on the court.:wtf Green cannot guard the small forwards worth a shit, he can't guard the likes of Durant or Kobe(George Hill says hello) and he can't play point guard(see last parenthesis). "Green didn't score much, but we don't need him to. He can't guard anyone really good, but that's ok. We were able to rest him with the 35 year olds, so he should be ready next time. They're only paying him 3 mil., so what do you expect":bang:bang:bang:bang


Wow brother it sounds like you're comparing Green with Ray Allen.
Sefolosha, Durant, Westbrook, Parker, Green, Leonard, Chalmers, Wade, James,Kidd, Shumpert, Anthony, Paul, Green, Butler. This is a list of back court starters for the tip five(perhaps) teams in the league this year, if you can count three positions as back court. I'd be interested to hear where you thought Green fits in this list. I hate the argument that he comes cheap so he is a keeper, although it's used often on ST. FYI, I don't hold Green at all responsible for last years loss to OKC. I'm watching him play tonight and I don't see all the greatness that you speak of.

Stop backpedaling.

First you say the Spurs champ teams haven't had any role players, now that I pointed out that it's not the case, you suddenly want to compare him to some of the best players in the NBA. Okay, chief. None of those teams have Duncan, either. It's stupid to think the Spurs are going to have Parker, Manu, AND another top tier guard and still be anywhere near the league soft cap in contract.


Hey friend between Manu and Green the Spurs are paying 18.5 million for the shooting guard position this year. The spurs should have the best damn 2 guard in the league on the court all the time. Manu pulls his weight but Green is a system success. Manu can playmake. Your first sentence here says that we agree on Greens abilities,

Ah, now it's Green's fault that Manu has a huge contract? Is he supposed to suddenly blossom into a top 5 SG in the league?


Heaven forbid if Green broke his leg tonight the team wouldn't miss a beat for the rest of the year.

.... I have no response to this kind of statement.


The spurs should have the best damn 2 guard in the league on the court all the time.

What. Just what?


The second sentence,well, it's big men that there is a shortage of in the league and D league, not shooting guards.

Alright, if the league is so full of guards, who do you propose we go after? Who are you going to sign from FA/waivers that's better than Green? Or are you suggesting trading Manu? Or finding a team to take Green, Bonner, Blair, etc. to give us a top 10 guard in the NBA?

At this point I'm puzzled as to what your annoyance with Green is, other than the fact that he's not James f-ing Harden. Would you care to clarify?

[Cry Havoc]

Thing is even a James Anderson can do so much more with the ball, he had great passing instincts and the ability to drive...

You mean the guy that shot 37% and 27% from FG and 3 respectively? That guy? You want him back on the Spurs?

[Cry Havoc]

:lol James Anderson, the guy who can't get off the bench for the .500 Houston Rockets, is better than our best 3 point gunner. :lol :lol :lol

[Paranoid Pop]

Double post.

[Paranoid Pop]

You mean the guy that shot 37% and 27% from FG and 3 respectively? That guy? You want him back on the Spurs?

I never wanted to get rid of him in the first place. How about Green's % at the rim, could be funny.

[Strategic]

Stop backpedaling.

First you say the Spurs champ teams haven't had any role players, now that I pointed out that it's not the case, you suddenly want to compare him to some of the best players in the NBA. Okay, chief. None of those teams have Duncan, either. It's stupid to think the Spurs are going to have Parker, Manu, AND another top tier guard and still be anywhere near the league soft cap in contract.












please, my original post in here mentioned Bowen and Horry. please move on. Where in the hell is Green tonight?

[Cry Havoc]

please, my original post in here mentioned Bowen and Horry. please move on. Where in the hell is Green tonight?

Ignoring the bulk of my posts -- obvious admission that you have no idea how to respond. :tu

[Strategic]

Ignoring the bulk of my posts -- obvious admission that you have no idea how to respond. :tu I'm watching the game and really don't care near as much about your ramblings as you do. I have no use in responding to your crying, and again, where is green at tonight?

[Strategic]

Ignoring the bulk of my posts -- obvious admission that you have no idea how to respond. :tu


After watching the Spurs/Hawks game I cede to your higher intellect. Green knew that the team needed him to stay out of the way and he did it to a tee. He knew that he couldn't be the sharp shooting 3 point man unless Duncan created mega space for him so he stayed out of the way. Or maybe he is just tired?

[Chinook]

After watching the Spurs/Hawks game I cede to your higher intellect. Green knew that the team needed him to stay out of the way and he did it to a tee. He knew that he couldn't be the sharp shooting 3 point man unless Duncan created mega space for him so he stayed out of the way. Or maybe he is just tired?

Not trying to get into the Green debate again, but I just wanted to say this: Green creates space for Duncan, not the other way around. That's how the Spurs's system works.

[Strategic]

Not trying to get into the Green debate again, but I just wanted to say this: Green creates space for Duncan, not the other way around. That's how the Spurs's system works.

Yea I really don't have much problem with Green. I just don't see much more upside with him. When Timmy is double teamed and throws it out to Green, or whomever is playing outside, Green gets a wide open three.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm watching the game and really don't care near as much about your ramblings as you do. I have no use in responding to your crying, and again, where is green at tonight?

So basically you only want to spew whatever drivel pops into your brain without listening to what anyone else has to say on the subject. Nice of you to admit.

[Strategic]

So basically you only want to spew whatever drivel pops into your brain without listening to what anyone else has to say on the subject. Nice of you to admit.

Thank you.

[Cry Havoc]

Thank you.

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

[Strategic]

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

Nice win for the good guys tonight huh?

[Cry Havoc]

Nice win for the good guys tonight huh?

So now you want to discuss basketball?

[AFBlue]

He's having himself a game tonight...dude is all over the place, cutting to the rim, finishing, finding guys, blocking shots, ripping balls. Probably the best all-around game I've seen him play in a Spurs uni.

[KL2]

Mr. Verde has been tearing it up as of late, he's finally knocking down 3's like he was last year. He is playing solid defense too, he deserves a ton of credit for the Spurs' success.

[freetiago]

When Danny is good hes really good and is probably the best roleplayer in the nba
but when hes bad hes really bad
misses every shot no matter how open and blows his layups and has stupid transition pass turnovers etc
also stops playing defense when he misses shots

no one expects him to play like he did last night every night but if he could find something inbetween and consistently be able to bring it everyone would feel a lot better

[spurraider21]

I'd argue that De Colo is also a better SG than Green.

heh

[spurraider21]

When Danny is good hes really good and is probably the best roleplayer in the nba
but when hes bad hes really bad
misses every shot no matter how open and blows his layups and has stupid transition pass turnovers etc
also stops playing defense when he misses shots

no one expects him to play like he did last night every night but if he could find something inbetween and consistently be able to bring it everyone would feel a lot better

In more important games Manu will not be playing 15 minutes per game. You can safely expect a decrease in Green's minutes. In the meantime, I think its safe to call him the best "starting" shooting guard we've had in the Manu 6th man era. Finley, Bogans, Mason...

[KL2]

In more important games Manu will not be playing 15 minutes per game. You can safely expect a decrease in Green's minutes. In the meantime, I think its safe to call him the best "starting" shooting guard we've had in the Manu 6th man era. Finley, Bogans, Mason...


Don't forget Hill, they sort of remind me of each other with their inconsistency, some games Hill looked like a future all star, others he was just bad. I just hope Green keeps playing well.

[spurraider21]

Don't forget Hill, they sort of remind me of each other with their inconsistency, some games Hill looked like a future all star, others he was just bad. I just hope Green keeps playing well.

IIRC hill never starting at shooting guard. all his starts were at pg when TP was hurt, and in one playoff run they kept him as a starter and actually had Parker off the bench, but Hill never started alongside Tony

[capek]

how 'bout now?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Great bump

[Spurs and Mavs fan]

while we can still get something out of him i think he needs to be included in a trade deal with
bonner and blair .. these are the three official playoff chokers


I suppose if Green weren't a choker, he would have made eight 3-pointers instead of seven 3-pointers last night?

[Darkwaters]

I suppose if Green weren't a choker, he would have made eight 3-pointers instead of seven 3-pointers last night?

Exactly! But that motherfucker choked and missed two of his nine threes.

Mother fucker!

[capek]

CH comes off quite well in this thread. :tu

[spurraider21]

:lol Paranoid Pop
:lol James Anderson > Green
:lol De Colo > Green

[capek]

:lol Paranoid Pop
:lol James Anderson > Green
:lol De Colo > Green

:lmao

[Chinook]

So many people thought that any half-way decent shooting-guard was better than Green. There's no reason call out his doubters now. Very few people here really believed in him. For people to come out of the woodwork and bash posters who weren't afraid to put their opinions out there is lame. And that's coming from someone who's been a pretty ardent Green support his whole time on this site.

[spurraider21]

So many people thought that any half-way decent shooting-guard was better than Green. There's no reason call out his doubters now. Very few people here really believed in him. For people to come out of the woodwork and bash posters who weren't afraid to put their opinions out there is lame. And that's coming from someone who's been a pretty ardent Green support his whole time on this site.

Meh. eating crow is part of being an opinionated sports fan. i was very adamant that Tiago should continue coming off the bench early in the season, and Obstructed View and I got into some heavy debate for a while, and I can admit I was wrong, and if somebody wants to pull up those old quotes of mine, some of which even said I'd rather start Blair, I will gladly eat crow :lol

[Staplepuffs27]

Not being sold on Danny Green was a fair assessment at the beginning of the season. He needed to prove something and he did. Don't see anything wrong with this thread.

[Gagnrath]

Hum I wonder what was in the other Green threads from the same period. I remember commenting on one, and think I said he was decent to good for the money but needed to learn to dribble. I didn't see the last few games from him happening though. Can we bottle this Green and let it out when needed? It stays focused on defense..... Maybe he'll get dribbling someday, he finishes moderately well sometimes at the rim and is gone others which makes little sense.

[TJastal]

Paranoid Pop last activity on spurstalk: 2/11/13.

Danny Green stats leading up to 2/11:

2/6 28 points on 8-12 3pt shooting vs t-wolves.
2/8 15 points on 5-7 3pt shooting vs pistons.
2/10 14 points on 4-8 3pt shooting vs nets.
2/11 18 points on 3-5 3pt shooting vs bulls.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[capek]

So many people thought that any half-way decent shooting-guard was better than Green. There's no reason call out his doubters now. Very few people here really believed in him. For people to come out of the woodwork and bash posters who weren't afraid to put their opinions out there is lame. And that's coming from someone who's been a pretty ardent Green support his whole time on this site.

:cry

[Chinook]

:cry

I'm just saying that so many people who are laughing at this thread had the same thoughts at some point this season. Very few of us defended Green consistently all season, a lot fewer than people who are pretending like they did now.

[Chinook]

Paranoid Pop last activity on spurstalk: 2/11/13.

Danny Green stats leading up to 2/11:

2/6 28 points on 8-12 3pt shooting vs t-wolves.
2/8 15 points on 5-7 3pt shooting vs pistons.
2/10 14 points on 4-8 3pt shooting vs nets.
2/11 18 points on 3-5 3pt shooting vs bulls.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

He actually came back with another name (just Pop) a little later, and he continued to underrate Green. He wasn't a bad poster; he actually had some all right takes in the Think Tank. He just couldn't get off his Green hate enough.

[tesseractive]

I'm just saying that so many people who are laughing at this thread had the same thoughts at some point this season. Very few of us defended Green consistently all season, a lot fewer than people who are pretending like they did now.
For sure. I've never been a Green hater, but I've definitely been a Green doubter since last year's playoffs.

Man am I glad to be that wrong! :lol